Hello,
Let me start off by saying I'm very new to making music and pretty much know nothing about synths besides what I've read on the users manual. I'm shooting for a sound that's creepy and atmospheric like atrax morgue but a little harsher and noisier and more layered with samples,tape loops,feedback etc.(Somewhere like a cross between AM and the really early super noisy Sutcliffe Jugend, but of course more layered and probably with a pretty different "aesthetic")
So far with just screwing around with the volca keys i've pretty much only figured out how to hold down a key and make rumbling and droney sounds. I would like to know what i should need to know/do in order to create some of those kinds of synth sounds from artists like atrax morgue,subklinik,taint,whitehouse,coma detox,survival unit,etc.NOT looking to copy them exactly i just wanna know how to to make harsh and abrasive but at the same time atmospheric synth sounds/rhythm. especially need help with rhythm.
I also have effects pedals,a mic, access to free software(but would to use it as little as possible), and im in the process of making an APC .
Welcome :) Are you the same person who posted on noiseguide recently? just because your question and gear sounds similar, I don't want to repeat myself. also if so you probably need to be more specific or you'll get the same kind of replies as you did there there but from people who know even less about gear (tho more about old death industrial maybe) :D
Quote from: Cementimental on February 02, 2015, 10:17:35 PM
Welcome :) Are you the same person who posted on noiseguide recently? just because your question and gear sounds similar, I don't want to repeat myself. also if so you probably need to be more specific or you'll get the same kind of replies as you did there there but from people who know even less about gear (tho more about old death industrial maybe) :D
Yeah it's me. I came to this forum because it seemed more PE and DI savvy. I've been reading about basic synthesis or whatever, but the only info I can find for using this is making the kinds of music you're supposed to with it. To be more specific, I would really like to know how to make atmospheric and somewhat ambient(I've kinda figured this out through using the delay thing on it), but at the same time abrasive and very noisy(having a little trouble with acheiving both at the same time). If i turn the cutoff all the way up on the VCF I can often get some pretty noisy sounding stuff, but I've been having a hard time figuring out how to create some sub-bass, and atmospheric undertones while it's all noisy. Additionally, I'm having trouble basically doing more than a clear tone without actually creating something that sounds similar to non-industrial-noise-type music; I would like to know how to basically not just hold down a key and make it a droney kind of sound,but at the same time not have it sound like an actual synth riff, if that makes sense.
most of easiest rhythm would be done with loops capturing random moments that break the usual patterns of this gadget.
I would assume these days reading manuals isn't that much necessary. For fastest advices for popular gear, one can check out youtube. People may not do "PE" there, but you often seen much more complex use of synths than in generic "PE track" and realize how much there is still to explore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arGzElkDH_Q
Not sure if volca keys is best for "PE sound", but there seems to be quite many things to be done.
"Atmospheric" = throw stuff thru some cheesy reverb effect basically. :D Electroharmonics ones sound good and are relatively affordable
Abrasive = more high/mid distortion, maybe mix distorted signal with the clean signal so it doesn't get too muddy or lose the bass power
Quote. I've been reading about basic synthesis or whatever, but the only info I can find for using this is making the kinds of music you're supposed to with it.
well, once you know the basics of how it's supposed to work then you will better understand how to misuse it to make noisier sounds. I guess volca keys is a little limited in what sort of sounds it produces as opposed to more advanced synths where you can patch/programme more unorthodox settings, so you might find it useful experimenting with effects more too
I really hate that i cant program any setting. Ive been experimenting with my multi effect and reverb with it. Ive been getting some interesting results. Ive kinda figured out through listening to the music that its not to unusual to smash down keys and experimenting.
Also thank you a lot for the looping idea. I feel like that could be useful for creating rhythms kind of.
Regarding the volcas: I think they are a very good way to begin with. But try to pass them through effects to give a more personal sound.
Everybody is buying this and is starting to become very recognisable at first listen (not that is necessarily a defect, but...)
Martin is selling his own ones: http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=5514.0
Quote from: tiny_tove on February 03, 2015, 04:15:12 PM
Regarding the volcas: I think they are a very good way to begin with. But try to pass them through effects to give a more personal sound.
Everybody is buying this and is starting to become very recognisable at first listen (not that is necessarily a defect, but...)
Martin is selling his own ones: http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=5514.0
A little fuzz and reverb is helping it. Is bending a good idea? I know its mostly about experimentation,but if I were to open how/what should I mess wit without it breaking?
i'd also like to share that ive made a really cool noise maker thing by plugging a sine wave generator into a guitar tuner
QuoteIs bending a good idea?
No, bend something worthless that can be made to make some more interesting/noisy sounds than intended, not something that's already a good instrument that cost a bit of money. Just keep experimenting with it instead of asking people questions on the internet the answers to which are going to be vague at best since they are not there hearing/seeing what you are doing. Less posting, less imitating (none of your death industrial heros were doing anything magic anyway nor did they start out copying other people or asking someone else how to do what they were doing, they just got whatever electronic music/sound gear they could and did what they could with it, most of that stuff used much less technology than you already have) and more experimenting and recording. :)
Quotei'd also like to share that ive made a really cool noise maker thing by plugging a sine wave generator into a guitar tuner
That sounds more like it!
Quotei'd also like to share that ive made a really cool noise maker thing by plugging a sine wave generator into a guitar tuner
That sounds more like it!
[/quote]
yeah ive realized from the start i was gonna have to diy a lot to get cool sounds. i ditched making the apc because i decided it was basically just as usefull as my sine wave generator. Im building a ring mod right now. Cant wait to see what itll sound like then. this diy shit is real fun, but pretty unpredictable in terms of the sounds itll make
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzAwWDMwMA==/$(KGrHqZHJCQE9qhGJ,sPBPg4YTry!w~~60_35.JPG)(http://www.musicalinstrumenthaven.com/ProductImages/korg-tuners/cm100-contact-microphone/Korg-CM100-Contact-Mic_m.jpg)(http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/profile_mojo_data/5/8/3/0/583049/pics/_c268378_image_0.jpg)
All you need.
Quote from: Vigilante Ecstasy on February 03, 2015, 09:01:10 PM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzAwWDMwMA==/$(KGrHqZHJCQE9qhGJ,sPBPg4YTry!w~~60_35.JPG)(http://www.musicalinstrumenthaven.com/ProductImages/korg-tuners/cm100-contact-microphone/Korg-CM100-Contact-Mic_m.jpg)(http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/profile_mojo_data/5/8/3/0/583049/pics/_c268378_image_0.jpg)
All you need.
Fucking primitive. I had the idea earlier to put a speaker or amp and turn it up really loud making some thumping beats, put it in some metal container, and have some glass,nails,screws w/e in there put a contact mic inside with a cord going out and run it through a few pedals. Maybe for a different project,though;that would be very harsh noise.Pic related would maybe be better through a diy spring reverb.That or putting a contact mic to a washing machine and doing the same would probably be the most ghetto approach to making drone I could think of,haha.
I've made noise with a vacuum cleaner recorded in a 4-track before. No effects, just the vacuum cleaner, a microphone and the 4-track. Shit was brutal. Less is always more.
Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on February 04, 2015, 12:21:44 AM
I've made noise with a vacuum cleaner recorded in a 4-track before. No effects, just the vacuum cleaner, a microphone and the 4-track. Shit was brutal. Less is always more.
yeah, just straight noise is pretty fun to do because you can pretty much do anything with anything that makes noise and it'll be noise, so thats pretty cool.But, whenever i make noise, it seems it just more fun to do it rather than to see how it turns out.
If anyone has any idea what would be the best reverb pedal/unit for the kinda sounds I want it would be very appreciated.( right now im just using the one on my zoom
im thinking between alesis microverb 4,digitech supernatural or maybe ehx cathedral doesnt have to be between those though, just the one thatll work best
I assume everyone has their own reasons to create noise and record it. Developping atmospheres and record something that I'd want to listen to afterwards are some of mine, whatever I use to make music. Just because it's a vacuum cleaner doesn't mean I can't make anything but noise with it, there are plenty of sounds I can make, various settings on the machine, various parts made of various stuff I can use, etc.
Also, I like the Cathedral reverb. I've never tried the other ones.
Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on February 04, 2015, 03:43:22 PM
I assume everyone has their own reasons to create noise and record it. Developping atmospheres and record something that I'd want to listen to afterwards are some of mine, whatever I use to make music. Just because it's a vacuum cleaner doesn't mean I can't make anything but noise with it, there are plenty of sounds I can make, various settings on the machine, various parts made of various stuff I can use, etc.
I could see how that might sound cool on recording,especially on a 4 track. ive never really liked the sounds of vacuums by themselves though.
I think it would be cool if someone put a piezo contact mic on the wand and turned it on and ran it through pedals, if the disk or whatever where wide enough
You don't need any of that stuff to make it not sound like a vacuum cleaner, recording (especially on tape) can be a tool/instrument/'effect' in itself
Quote from: birthdeath on February 04, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
If anyone has any idea what would be the best reverb pedal/unit for the kinda sounds I want it would be very appreciated.( right now im just using the one on my zoom
im thinking between alesis microverb 4,digitech supernatural or maybe ehx cathedral doesnt have to be between those though, just the one thatll work best
This is going to sound obvious, maybe you've already tried it, but anyway - is there a guitar megashop near you? They will usually let you test out new and used effects pedals. Of course you won't be able to plug a synth rig into them but just buy testing them out with an off the rack Fender guitar or something you will get a pretty good idea of what sounds they make, which ones sound better to you, what sounds more synthetic or natural, etc. Guitar stores usually also have a good selection of popular pedals and effects units used, which is always cheaper than buying a brand new pedal for $150 or whatever.
I went to guitar center yesterday and they didnt really have a great selection of reverbs. I saw some behringer ones and tested them but they seemed pretty limited(although I was still pretty surprised). I want a thick,murky,sludgy,cavernous sound. The Reverb Machine, even when on the cave mode was a little too digital sounding and not really deep enough. They had a few units and a TC electronic one too but I didnt test those.
I'm willing to spend $175 on the reverb when I have all the money saved for a new round of gear(halfway there) and also plan on getting a pitch shifter/delay,reverb of course, and probably a digidelay or some pedal that I can layer a bunch of tape loops sounds and then further mess with it using the pitch shifter.
If you can gain access to a location with good reverb, that will probably beat any pedal on the market.
Quote from: jadderly on February 05, 2015, 12:41:32 AM
If you can gain access to a location with good reverb, that will probably beat any pedal on the market.
Oh, I was thinking of more of the kind of reverb you hear in dark ambient and a lot of PE. It makes it sound kinda spooky;that kind. I imagine having like so much that it almost blends all my inputs together in like a fog then I'll add some harsh electronic sounding painful vocals(mostly just sounds). But since my zoom 505ii doesnt have two inputs or two out puts like a unit or really good reverb would(one for synth,samples,tape loops,noise coming from another mixer, and another or more for my synth and other shit) Just gotta work with what I have till I've got everything saved up,though. So I'm thinking a noisier approach would be more achievable.
I've also got a homemade spring reverb from an amp, but I basically turned it into another noise-shaker box-contact mic thing(still can run shit through it tho) because it was kinda shitty and not what i was looking for.
Believe it or not some old school dark ambient acts used location/field recordings of wind and random sounds...those recordings could be added into the mix of just about anything. Lustmord was one artist that did this, but field recordings are nothing new in this type of music...
Quote from: jadderly on February 05, 2015, 06:42:32 AM
Believe it or not some old school dark ambient acts used location/field recordings of wind and random sounds...those recordings could be added into the mix of just about anything. Lustmord was one artist that did this, but field recordings are nothing new in this type of music...
yeah i could see the usage of field recordings of wind and ive actually been doing that. i thought you ment playing into a big hall or something. and i would imagine that would kinda just echo
QuoteOh, I was thinking of more of the kind of reverb you hear in dark ambient and a lot of PE. It makes it sound kinda spooky
So, just some standard utter cheesy reverb. A rackmount or desktop reverb unit of some kind might be better than pedal ones, because reverb pedals are for guitarists and thus are mostly boring and limited. Some Alessis reverbs can be picked up cheap on eBay etc, also the Zoom rackmount multi fx like RFX1000 or similar are cheap and have some decent reverb settings
For actual interesting/good/experimental reverb try things like as mentioned playing back and recording sounds in a real reverberating space (yeah a giant hall might be more like echo but that could be good, and in a way reverb is kind of just really short echo anyway, but even a tiled bathroom can make a good reverb chamber!) ...or since reverb is usually (except spring reverb) a digital effect just forget pedals and experiment with Convolution reverb in software. Can't be bothered to explain it now but long story short it's magic, you can kind of sample a real space and put any sound thru it for super realistic reverb as if it was being played in that space. One of Reaper's default verb plugins can load 'impulse response' samples, and you can download a lot of them free online, I've found forests, caves, Masonic temples, warehouses... Also you can load in samples that aren't intended to be a reverb impulse and make your own unnatural spaces/atmospheres. I made a dark ambient/drone track by playing sounds thru a riff from a death metal song, it sounded like some giant doom cathedral
Anyway I'm not explaining this so well, Google 'convolution reverb' and read up about it and if you don't get excited about it you prob shouldn't be doing reverb-centric electronic music :D
Quote from: Cementimental on February 05, 2015, 12:03:37 PM
QuoteOh, I was thinking of more of the kind of reverb you hear in dark ambient and a lot of PE. It makes it sound kinda spooky
So, just some standard utter cheesy reverb. A rackmount or desktop reverb unit of some kind might be better than pedal ones, stereo, higher quality sound, longer reverb etx. reverb pedals are for guitarists and thus are mostly boring and limited. Some Alessis reverbs can be picked up cheap on eBay etc, also the Zoom rackmount multi fx like RFX1000 or similar are cheap and have some decent reverb settings
For actual interesting/good/experimental reverb try things like as mentioned playing back and recording sounds in a real reverberating space (yeah a giant hall might be more like echo but that could be good, and in a way reverb is kind of just really short echo anyway, but even a tiled bathroom can make a good reverb chamber!) ...or since reverb is usually (except spring reverb) a digital effect just forget pedals and experiment with Convolution reverb in software. Can't be bothered to explain it now but long story short it's magic, you can kind of sample a real space and put any sound thru it for super realistic reverb as if it was being played in that space. One of Reaper's default verb plugins can load 'impulse response' samples, and you can download a lot of them free online, I've found forests, caves, Masonic temples, warehouses... Also you can load in samples that aren't intended to be a reverb impulse and make your own unnatural spaces/atmospheres. I made a dark ambient/drone track by playing sounds thru a riff from a death metal song, it sounded like some giant doom cathedral
Anyway I'm not explaining this so well, Google 'convolution reverb' and read up about it and if you don't get excited about it you prob shouldn't be doing reverb-centric electronic music :D
Quote from: Cementimental on February 05, 2015, 12:03:37 PM
QuoteOh, I was thinking of more of the kind of reverb you hear in dark ambient and a lot of PE. It makes it sound kinda spooky
So, just some standard utter cheesy reverb. A rackmount or desktop reverb unit of some kind might be better than pedal ones, because reverb pedals are for guitarists and thus are mostly boring and limited. Some Alessis reverbs can be picked up cheap on eBay etc, also the Zoom rackmount multi fx like RFX1000 or similar are cheap and have some decent reverb settings
For actual interesting/good/experimental reverb try things like as mentioned playing back and recording sounds in a real reverberating space (yeah a giant hall might be more like echo but that could be good, and in a way reverb is kind of just really short echo anyway, but even a tiled bathroom can make a good reverb chamber!) ...or since reverb is usually (except spring reverb) a digital effect just forget pedals and experiment with Convolution reverb in software. Can't be bothered to explain it now but long story short it's magic, you can kind of sample a real space and put any sound thru it for super realistic reverb as if it was being played in that space. One of Reaper's default verb plugins can load 'impulse response' samples, and you can download a lot of them free online, I've found forests, caves, Masonic temples, warehouses... Also you can load in samples that aren't intended to be a reverb impulse and make your own unnatural spaces/atmospheres. I made a dark ambient/drone track by playing sounds thru a riff from a death metal song, it sounded like some giant doom cathedral
Anyway I'm not explaining this so well, Google 'convolution reverb' and read up about it and if you don't get excited about it you prob shouldn't be doing reverb-centric electronic music :D
holy shit that sounds like fun!! Ill definitely do that to spice up and combine my samples. i field recorded a junkyard/construction site/idk last week. I can run my shit through that?
Read up on it to fully understand but basically you make reverb impulses by recording a sharp crack/pop (eg a hand clap, balloon popping or gunshot) in a reverberant space.. So if you can edit a single impact kind of sound out of your recording and there's not too much other background noise you might get good results, and pretty much any short sound will give you interesting/weird/droney results :)
you got the link to that song you made with it? i ve only found some(pretty cool actually) harsh noise stuff. i d just like to see an example of what it would sound like when you use it for the purposes that you or i would use it
Thanks.. I can't remember if that one's online and I'm away from computer at the moment so can't check/find it. Anyway it can sound like pretty much anything, just give it a go :)
Quote from: Cementimental on February 07, 2015, 01:42:05 PM
Thanks.. I can't remember if that one's online and I'm away from computer at the moment so can't check/find it. Anyway it can sound like pretty much anything, just give it a go :)
yeah i was procrastinating trying that yesterday because i was too busy recording hours of me fucking with my volca keys and catching all the parts where it sounded unusual. So at least I've got a few good synth loops now.
Oh and here's a harsh noise track I made. I've been working on two death industrial tracks but I just did some feedback loop improv to get my mind off shit. Would like to know if I should continue this side-project
https://soundcloud.com/nonbeing-1/brokenflangershitsong
Quote from: birthdeath on February 04, 2015, 11:25:34 PM
I went to guitar center yesterday and they didnt really have a great selection of reverbs. I saw some behringer ones and tested them but they seemed pretty limited(although I was still pretty surprised). I want a thick,murky,sludgy,cavernous sound. The Reverb Machine, even when on the cave mode was a little too digital sounding and not really deep enough. They had a few units and a TC electronic one too but I didnt test those.
I'm willing to spend $175 on the reverb when I have all the money saved for a new round of gear(halfway there) and also plan on getting a pitch shifter/delay,reverb of course, and probably a digidelay or some pedal that I can layer a bunch of tape loops sounds and then further mess with it using the pitch shifter.
Have you looked into Alesis Quadraverb? I've had one for a couple of weeks and I'm really pleased with it. Abstract and soulful.
Quote from: Pax Chetyorka on February 10, 2015, 01:20:37 AM
Quote from: birthdeath on February 04, 2015, 11:25:34 PM
I went to guitar center yesterday and they didnt really have a great selection of reverbs. I saw some behringer ones and tested them but they seemed pretty limited(although I was still pretty surprised). I want a thick,murky,sludgy,cavernous sound. The Reverb Machine, even when on the cave mode was a little too digital sounding and not really deep enough. They had a few units and a TC electronic one too but I didnt test those.
I'm willing to spend $175 on the reverb when I have all the money saved for a new round of gear(halfway there) and also plan on getting a pitch shifter/delay,reverb of course, and probably a digidelay or some pedal that I can layer a bunch of tape loops sounds and then further mess with it using the pitch shifter.
Have you looked into Alesis Quadraverb? I've had one for a couple of weeks and I'm really pleased with it. Abstract and soulful.
Wow,very cheap. I was looking into making a bigger investment for my reverb though(mucroverb 4 or some other unit in that range), but if this is just as good or better, I could actually get it right now . I think it'd be better to invest in something a little better than that as itll probably be one of the two or three effects I use when I upgrade my shit.
Thanks for the suggestion tho!
Although, of course there must come a point where one must differentiate between genuine inspiration and asking people to tell them what to do.
I've experimented for probably more than 40 hours the previous week and this week... you people were right, I've found my sound and what works for me; no more questions about that.
This thread was really just made to find anyone who knew of any common techniques or whatever for making the kind of music I want. You know, so I had some kinda jumping off point rather than remaining clueless. but,experimenting has seem to have done the trick. Now I've just gotta keep getting better
Quote from: birthdeath on February 10, 2015, 07:24:26 AM
Quote from: Pax Chetyorka on February 10, 2015, 01:20:37 AM
Quote from: birthdeath on February 04, 2015, 11:25:34 PM
I went to guitar center yesterday and they didnt really have a great selection of reverbs. I saw some behringer ones and tested them but they seemed pretty limited(although I was still pretty surprised). I want a thick,murky,sludgy,cavernous sound. The Reverb Machine, even when on the cave mode was a little too digital sounding and not really deep enough. They had a few units and a TC electronic one too but I didnt test those.
I'm willing to spend $175 on the reverb when I have all the money saved for a new round of gear(halfway there) and also plan on getting a pitch shifter/delay,reverb of course, and probably a digidelay or some pedal that I can layer a bunch of tape loops sounds and then further mess with it using the pitch shifter.
Have you looked into Alesis Quadraverb? I've had one for a couple of weeks and I'm really pleased with it. Abstract and soulful.
Wow,very cheap. I was looking into making a bigger investment for my reverb though(mucroverb 4 or some other unit in that range), but if this is just as good or better, I could actually get it right now . I think it'd be better to invest in something a little better than that as itll probably be one of the two or three effects I use when I upgrade my shit.
Thanks for the suggestion tho!
I wouldn't focus on the price, look for some examples and see if it's up your alley! I upgraded to something cheaper. Never felt like using EHX Cathedral for anything, and that one cost me twice as much.
There's also Eventide Space. I highly recommend it for long and heavy washes, though it may be overkill if you want something discreet.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raNDn_74hlE
That other reverb is way expensive and not really the sound I was looking for. I was told by a friend that the microverb 4 could make some really dark reverbs(plays in some kinda doom-gaze band) and it s in my price range. Thank you for those suggestions tho, that was generous
I realized that delay is actually important. I'm pretty much done on mod effects (got me a colorsound flanger at a thrift store earlier for 20 bucks) considering still getting an Electric Mistress though but IDK.
The other stupid question that I really wanted to ask was: Is there a delay that can do as much or almost as much and as much and almost as good as the boss giga delay?Watching demos of that thing is driving me nuts wanting to get it though! Just imagining what kinda warped sounds I could make runnin a few tape loops through it. I'm trying to be as minimal in my set up as I can so that i save more money and can master my set up easier. Been trying to narrow it down to:a modulation effect,a reverb, and delay. Im modding my death metal and the thing just spews screeching feedback even when just plugged into itself. So im set on distortion.