OK, so at some point, it's a hard line to delineate the boundaries between, say, musique concrete, "general tape music," and a "sound collage." Lots of projects or releases I could think of have a collage-type approach to many tracks, even describing themselves as such (Ultra, Macronympha, Contrastate, Runzerstirn & Gurgelstock, Merzbow) but somehow they seem a bit too "musical" (or noisy) to really hit the description of sound collage as I interpret it.
When I think of a sound collage, I'm thinking layered, cut-up, and maybe sometimes looped field recordings, tape sound, found sound, seemingly purposeless recordings of families, and the like - maybe some warped musical bits in there, but really mostly collaged non-music sound. I'm having a hard time explaining myself but am confident that at least a few people around here know what I mean.
With limited success, I've found what might qualify as such here and there, problem is, a lot of it sucks or is just a bunch of field recordings of everyday bullshit. Can anyone recommend more listenable sound-collage type stuff? Maybe even artists who specialize in such techniques?
Examples of each, as you see them?
Yeah, would probably need to see some examples of what you mean and don't mean, but will go ahead and mention Michael Barthel \ some 'Recordings For The Summer' releases might be up your alley. Also some Dave Phillips, or Daniel Lowenbruck stuff?
I think I understand what your looking for, so while I find Barthel to be incredible I don't know if he qualifies. I would say he is more 'Sound Poetry', but if you dig SP I recommend him. His Recordings for Summer label does issue a lot of field recordings.
Hands To (particularly early stuff) as well as certain releases under his own name fits the bill for what your describing I think. If you enjoy field recordings a lot of Jeph Jerman releases are very good. I would suggest Jeph Jerman - Metal Drift it's recordings on various metal structures in the desert and mixed down from like 4 mini disc players. I think.
Darksmith ~ organic sound collage, sometimes I hear music in it, guitar and drums deconstructed completely with crude organic sounds...one of the best currently working.
Agog is mostly collages sounds, somewhat "musical" at times. There are some examples on YouTube.
Reijo Pami ~ I love this guy, I never have met anyone else into it. Real non sound, no effects. Crude recordings. I was just thinking about the junk sounds topic today and wondering why he wasn't included.
These are what I think of when I think collage sound, however if you want more organized sound
Alvin Currans - Natural History : uses all field recording but arranged like a symphony. It's brilliant sounding stuff.
I think Matmos and People Like Us fit under the sound collage umbrella but they are not loud by any means. Oh oh, there's also Graham Moore's matterial on his split with Artbreakhotel!!
NURSE WITH WOUND
a lot of John Murphy's stuff
early CURRENT 93 (which featured both the above mentioned gentlemen)
Bladderflask
Would Mlehst come under this? Admittedly I'm unsure of the line between musique concrete and sound collage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Re7cHBxxU
Quote from: NaturalOrthodoxy on January 31, 2018, 05:10:37 PM
Would Mlehst come under this? Admittedly I'm unsure of the line between musique concrete and sound collage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Re7cHBxxU
That sounds like MC to me; I don't think it's chopped enough up or has a varied enough sound to be sound collage. Either way it's as boring as all Hell.
Me again!! You can search 'sound collage' on Bandcamp:
https://bandcamp.com/tag/sound-collage
Quote from: Deadpriest on January 31, 2018, 05:58:19 PM
Me again!! You can search 'sound collage' on Bandcamp:
https://bandcamp.com/tag/sound-collage
I don't think this is paticularly useful. Anyone could blindly search, he's looking for recommendations.
I've been going back and forth with this suggestion but G*Park might appeal. His work is def within the tradition of MC and Tape music but what he achieves in stunning, I feel he deconstructs reality and rearranges it. One of the best either way.
In the more crude relam Brian Ryruk collages his guitar playing into a heap of junk sound, and Prick Decay might interest you. Check out Cuba Planet Cuba, it's on Bandcamp i think. Stuff is crude as fuck.
I used to obsess over field recording collage work, microsound and isolationism - whatever that term specifically describes.
When I think of a sound collage I always think about radio plays that are all over the map when it comes to sound sources - however not really noisy, distracting or overtly crude/offensive/intrusive.
Anyway - some things you might enjoy - not necessarily in the radio play sense described above...
https://www.discogs.com/artist/259779-Mathieu-Ruhlmann
https://www.discogs.com/artist/413294-Fhievel
https://www.discogs.com/artist/278317-Nathan-McNinch
https://www.discogs.com/artist/74839-Jgrzinich
https://www.discogs.com/artist/284386-Asher-4
https://www.discogs.com/artist/423650-Christopher-McFall
https://www.discogs.com/artist/147853-Dan-Warburton
https://www.discogs.com/artist/240877-Darius-Ciuta
https://www.discogs.com/artist/90589-Tore-Honor%C3%A9-B%C3%B8e
https://www.discogs.com/artist/224076-Ubeboet
What I'm thinking to recommend has me thinking we had a similar thread at some point.
JGrzinich, and that whole crew, are masters at this. Grzinich is probably the pinnacle, though. Start with his Intimations, get your mind blown, and then go from there.
John Wall, if I'm understanding the fence lines here, is head of surgery in the collage field. He's up there with Bayle and Brume.
I was also thinking some of the microsound guys, Darius Ciuta, etc.
Second John Wall, earlier
-Alterstill
-Fractuur
Second Dave Phillips, more recent non field-recording
-RISE
-?
-Collection Of Hair
-Homo Animalis
-mutations
John Watermann, earlier
-Dummyhead
-The Dead Calm Of Bashing Coca Cola
-Warmth Is The Fifth Room
-These Are Workers
Was thinking from OP's post elsewhere that Stuart Chalmers probably fits the bill st times. The comment about drones, chimes etc is right on as he definitely uses these things live but there are many works that seem based on simply letting 2 or more found/field recorded cassettes run in tandem. Much prefer this aspect of his work to when he messes about with delays and goes all psychedelic. Try the Imaginary Musics series (I think it's called that)
Chris Watson ¬ BJ Nilsen - Storm
Chris Watson – Weather Report
Chris Watson first came to mind when I read "collage" "layered" "field recordings" and "non music", but I hesitated because I thought that would be too literal. Or too naturist-recordist documentarian. The cuts are so non-obstrusive as to appear perfectly organic. Thus the safe suggestion of more angular cut-up stuff from John Watermann et al. But the above weather recordings might provide a good bridge. Storms obviously bring their own narrative drama, and pitch, and the general flavor of white-flecked spittle might appeal to those of a noisier inclination. What the Weather Report lacks in drama and overall tension it makes up for in legit sense of dour-faced, buttoned-down composition. Only the occasional moment that'll jump out at you, but dense with fine texture. Benefits greatly from very LOUD sound system.
https://bennynilsen.bandcamp.com/album/storm
https://chriswatsonreleases.bandcamp.com/album/weather-report
https://www.discogs.com/Glands-Of-External-Secretion-Convicted-Felon-Adjusted-For-Inflation/master/1120890
This Christine Groult thing seems to fit the bill and is pretty enjoyable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs4o0jdNZjQ
https://soundcloud.com/antonym-art-oh/01-p-pr3-hieroglyphic-silence
Quote from: Marcel Duchump on February 14, 2018, 08:18:10 AM
https://soundcloud.com/antonym-art-oh/01-p-pr3-hieroglyphic-silence
I like that.
Blood Stereo fits the description imo as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdipRip7L4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzJLidZnYZk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qL4ukbeRDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzOdlILMffs
https://www.discogs.com/SIsabella-Point-De-Caption/release/439034
s.isabella is a memorable project of this persuasion. a blend of varied recording sources and harsh sounds like a 'journey' style with many asides and regressions. not zany or scatalogical, quite playful and sly.
https://soundcloud.com/antonym-art-oh/01-pitou-mitan
Strafe Fur Rebellion. Long running project that seems to enjoy showing off the range of unlikely sources used in the music. And music is the word. Actually I often find their tendency to try to make proper songs out of the material slightly irritating, and not always in a good way. So maybe could qualify in the contemporary wtf category... less non music than non any kind of musicality likely to be encountered outside Planet Strafe FR. Still there are some great, and jarring, moments, odd juxtapositions often giving way to more settled pastorals...or not! Luftunger may be the best known and best in general. Kinda Discovery Channel documentary soundtrack presentation. This opening track serves as a good intro overall, stick around for the first few minutes.
https://touch333.bandcamp.com/track/ordovician-upper-430-to-420-million-years-ago
I would nevertheless approach the project with caution as there is much to avoid.
Still, the Vogel comp is worthwhile as are Ochsle and the radio play-like Der Säemann.
https://touch333.bandcamp.com/album/v-gel
From Ochsle
https://youtu.be/VOE0wbQ0kUM
Der Säemann
https://youtu.be/qurC_n9dl20
I think you'd call this sound collage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqEwPBHLEDM
Quote from: Deadpriest on March 03, 2018, 09:27:16 PM
I think you'd call this sound collage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqEwPBHLEDM
This is a wonderful and confusing album, Joseph Hammer is a real master, and while I wholeheartedly would call it collage. It deals more with music than anything else. However if you like this track down his cd on Art Into Life. It's a must.
https://soundcloud.com/adolfmarx/p-pr2
Quote from: Marcel Duchump on March 06, 2018, 02:12:44 PM
https://soundcloud.com/adolfmarx/p-pr2
Why do you think this is sound collage?
Quote from: Marcel Duchump on March 07, 2018, 02:45:00 PM
Why do you ask ?
Because it obviously isn't and I wondered why you posted it.
How about ponderosa? Reckon this comes close to the mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3FLYYjDQrw
[Posts: 1053
Why do you ask ?
Because it obviously isn't and I wondered why you posted it.
NEUROTIC FORCE & FORCE NEUROTIC
Sound collage
« on: January 30, 2018, 08:18:30 PM »
Quote
>>OK, so at some point, it's a hard line to delineate the boundaries between, say, musique concrete, "general tape music," and a "sound collage." Lots of projects or releases I could think of have a collage-type approach to many tracks, even describing themselves as such (Ultra, Macronympha, Contrastate, Runzerstirn & Gurgelstock, Merzbow) but somehow they seem a bit too "musical" (or noisy) to really hit the description of sound collage as I interpret it.
When I think of a sound collage, I'm thinking layered, cut-up, and maybe sometimes looped field recordings, tape sound, found sound, seemingly purposeless recordings of families, and the like - maybe some warped musical bits in there, but really mostly collaged non-music sound. I'm having a hard time explaining myself but am confident that at least a few people around here know what I mean.
With limited success, I've found what might qualify as such here and there, problem is, a lot of it sucks or is just a bunch of field recordings of everyday bullshit. Can anyone recommend more listenable sound-collage type stuff? Maybe even artists who specialize in such techniques?
Hmmm... I guess I hadn't payed much attention to that after my initial post here, what I was posting here was at least a patchworks of sounds with lots of intricacy, what you posted was neither of those things.
As for my post count that's bullshit, maybe other people have accused me of trying to pad it but they were out of line. occasionally I have treated whatever thread as a bit of a message board but it was without thinking or maybe I've been a bit unthinking and self indulgent but I like to participate and I do try to be conscientious (and trying to be more so) despite what certain people might think. So if you have any more to say PM me.
On a personal standpoint of reading the forum posting links with no content is not something I find particularly compelling or intellectually stimulating. Even a simple description, or "artist/album" at the very least.
Back on subject, some Blod material (particularly the iddb 7") might fit. I haven't heard anything from him that wasn't free jazz though. That said I think he has releases heavy in the found tape area, and if you accidentally get a free jazz release it's actually quite good.
Quote from: Johann on January 31, 2018, 04:35:57 AM
Alvin Currans - Natural History : uses all field recording but arranged like a symphony. It's brilliant sounding stuff.
So while all your recommendations tend to hit the nail, I was blown away by this one, cheers! Just grabbed the Art Into Life reissue for more than I'd normally shell out, if that says anything. Rivals Luc Ferrari and such if I dare say.
Quote from: Johann on March 08, 2018, 05:49:25 PM
Back on subject, some Blod material (particularly the iddb 7") might fit. I haven't heard anything from him that wasn't free jazz though. That said I think he has releases heavy in the found tape area, and if you accidentally get a free jazz release it's actually quite good.
I have a love-hate relationship with the latter Blod, sometimes it's really pleasantly anhedonic and other times, well...suicidal, haha. I'd like to hear the purely jazz stuff. I get what you mean about the "collage" part but it's pretty "musical" compared to what I meant in OP and your other suggestions.
Quote from: Force Neurotic on March 14, 2018, 05:18:58 AM
Quote from: Johann on January 31, 2018, 04:35:57 AM
Alvin Currans - Natural History : uses all field recording but arranged like a symphony. It's brilliant sounding stuff.
So while all your recommendations tend to hit the nail, I was blown away by this one, cheers! Just grabbed the Art Into Life reissue for more than I'd normally shell out, if that says anything. Rivals Luc Ferrari and such if I dare say.
Quote from: Johann on March 08, 2018, 05:49:25 PM
Back on subject, some Blod material (particularly the iddb 7") might fit. I haven't heard anything from him that wasn't free jazz though. That said I think he has releases heavy in the found tape area, and if you accidentally get a free jazz release it's actually quite good.
I have a love-hate relationship with the latter Blod, sometimes it's really pleasantly anhedonic and other times, well...suicidal, haha. I'd like to hear the purely jazz stuff. I get what you mean about the "collage" part but it's pretty "musical" compared to what I meant in OP and your other suggestions.
Really happy you dug it! Alvin Curran is truly special, and I think I might agree with your sentiment that he may be better than Ferrari.
Yea, that's interesting, I've heard so little Blod I figured it may have a musical element. My only record by him is under his own name on Jartecknet. I remember it as good but haven't revisited...the only Blod jazz I heard was on Bandcamp. Is the samples he uses all in Swedish? If so does it detract at all from the experience of English listeners?
Quote from: Johann on March 15, 2018, 12:45:28 AM
Quote from: Force Neurotic on March 14, 2018, 05:18:58 AM
Quote from: Johann on January 31, 2018, 04:35:57 AM
Alvin Currans - Natural History : uses all field recording but arranged like a symphony. It's brilliant sounding stuff.
So while all your recommendations tend to hit the nail, I was blown away by this one, cheers! Just grabbed the Art Into Life reissue for more than I'd normally shell out, if that says anything. Rivals Luc Ferrari and such if I dare say.
Quote from: Johann on March 08, 2018, 05:49:25 PM
Back on subject, some Blod material (particularly the iddb 7") might fit. I haven't heard anything from him that wasn't free jazz though. That said I think he has releases heavy in the found tape area, and if you accidentally get a free jazz release it's actually quite good.
I have a love-hate relationship with the latter Blod, sometimes it's really pleasantly anhedonic and other times, well...suicidal, haha. I'd like to hear the purely jazz stuff. I get what you mean about the "collage" part but it's pretty "musical" compared to what I meant in OP and your other suggestions.
Really happy you dug it! Alvin Curran is truly special, and I think I might agree with your sentiment that he may be better than Ferrari.
Yea, that's interesting, I've heard so little Blod I figured it may have a musical element. My only record by him is under his own name on Jartecknet. I remember it as good but haven't revisited...the only Blod jazz I heard was on Bandcamp. Is the samples he uses all in Swedish? If so does it detract at all from the experience of English listeners?
My first exposure to Alvin Curran is while reading this, really excellent. For some reason this is a type of music that I always enjoy hearing and listening to, but have never spent tons of time delving too deep into it myself. Need to run down to thee local noise \ sound art dispensary rumpsti pumsti and grab a copy of the LP reissue.
Quote from: totalblack on March 15, 2018, 01:41:26 AM
My first exposure to Alvin Curran is while reading this, really excellent. For some reason this is a type of music that I always enjoy hearing and listening to, but have never spent tons of time delving too deep into it myself.
Heh, same here, and that basically sums up my motivation in starting the thread. But the "genre" as a whole has become an addiction pretty quickly.
Quote from: Johann on March 15, 2018, 12:45:28 AM
Really happy you dug it! Alvin Curran is truly special, and I think I might agree with your sentiment that he may be better than Ferrari.
Is the samples he uses all in Swedish? If so does it detract at all from the experience of English listeners?
Haha, didn't realize Blod had a Bandcamp, will get on it. Everything I've heard was loops of found-sound, thrift store/garage sale family tapes type stuff, one or two layers at a time (so still pretty music-ish and not too collage-y). A very kind gentleman on this forum sent me the Kare Jesus/Mandys Bil 7" after I said I wanted something "disappointing," and I guess M. Andersson's review sums it up; he says something like it's obviously a drunk-ass dad on x-mas forcing his kids to sing along, hah. So I guess to answer your question, it's more the content/sound that makes it so I have to be in this specific, frustrated mood to go anywhere near that - the lack of understanding Swedish much less speaking much of any other second language does render a lot of stuff slightly oblique, though. I end up having to do a lot of translation and research with a lot of music, I guess.
What I am still searching for is more varied, multilayered all-over-the place collaged sound that (mostly but not entirely) tends to avoid music/instruments as sources that sometimes gets a pretty maddening level of editing/pace. In the future, I want to do something like this myself that goes from quick-cut tape collages to harder, more saturated sound that's like cut-up noise without the pedals/almost no electronics.
"Collage " :-)
This is what came to mind, especially after seeing Alvin Curran mentioned. Some of these may not exactly fit your idea of sound collage or be true examples of the style but they all have collage-like elements.
Pierre Mariétan: (Recently reissued, it's great, though is perhaps more field recording than sound collage) https://soundcloud.com/manarec/mana1
Michel Chion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqhWkhKDFJM
Paul Dolden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fidi0JvFAnk
Operating Theatre/Roger Doyle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P_-n1TUCXU
Jacques Lejeune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsneFwdX9Xw
Deathranch: (Probably a lot of stuff on SoP for that matter, eg, Big City Orchestra, If Bwana, etc): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ospVbmK4r8
Bladderflask: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e4_dPsf2JM
H.N.A.S: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtxQncGyKek
Mark Vernon: (That whole Lambkin/KYE/Penultimate Press/etc bunch do this sort of thing quite a bit. Astor and Vanessa Rossetto come to mind, though they may be more in the field recording and electroacoustic end of the spectrum. This one works more with found sound.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFk3utm4wCE
Basil Kirchin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBUxJNLcX78
This Can related record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96k_XKT4CHA
This Ghedalia Tazartes record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdGrwLDlOqg
This odd LP on Alga Marghen by Hans Krusi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3XnAMV6hrs
This Franz Zwartjes record maybe? Lots of keyboardy synth stuff with spliced in vocal elements. Either way, it's pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=630Doou3cJQ