Hey All,
Long time fan and collector of noise, But is anyone else kind of miffed by the rise of Instagram clout labels. I'm seeing a lot of hype for Deathbed and it kinda rubs me the wrong way. More and more the act of curation seems to be going away in favor of trashy instagram/social media marketing tactics. I'm tired of labels posting memes about themselves and flexing online when in actuality they're making ultra ultra limited runs of tapes from projects I've barely heard of and the content isn't totally impressing me. Some of you on here may have worked with him, and im curious, were you satisfied with the final product? Did you even get artist copies? I see some of these tapes have like 25 copies sometimes less...
Anyway trying to spark a conversation less about shitting on a specific guy and more about trends ya'll are seeing at large. I know the days of emailing to order tapes, and posting on the troniks board are long gone, but I'm seeing a larger scale movement away from actual content... I like when noise is good lol, and spooky tape labels posting on instagram are not giving me my fix.
what are your thoughts?
I think it's easy to have a kneejerk negative reaction to self-aware cyber-literate personalities or entities in a genre that has for so long operated in the shadows and had strong reverence for the ways of the past, but it seems to me (caveat: a 29 year old who has been a noise fan only for about 5 years) that memes and "clout" are just a natural part of promoting anything in the year of our lord 2020.
It's less a conscious "opt in" for a label to employ such techniques as much as other labels actively declining or rejecting such techniques for whatever reason is an active "opt out". I've seen some hate on Deathbed from different sources, and everyone is entitled to an opinion but I don't really get it. It's a label with a strong consistent aesthetic, democratic in that it promotes newer/unknown artists alongside established names (one of my favourite things for a label to do, see Total Black for the perfection of this model).
In my opinion, seeing a label effectively utilise the tools of the day rather than nostalgically clinging to the past is a natural and welcome progression. Especially when that means a level of humour and self awareness which is something I've always enjoyed in noise.
With regards the editions being limited, I think this is nothing new in noise or indeed any other DIY subculture. You could view it as a gimmick for a run to be so limited but at the same time it means more money and time to promote the next release rather than sitting on dead stock for months (as a former label chief I know that pain), not to mention maximising the amount of artists you can promote and support which at the end of the day is the main function of a label.
Not hating on OP's opinion, just my two cents which I hadn't even given much thought before today
In all honesty, Deathbed's working method seems pretty realistic. For unknown Harsh Noise (Wall) artists, an edition of 25 is okay - some "real" CD pressings may sell even less copies than 25. The bigger projects seem to be decently limited, i.e. 50 - 70. For a label that doesn't trade a lot, that is also realistic. May be a bit too small, but some labels don't want there homes cluttered with leftovers that don't move.
Same goes for advertising. IG is popular with people who actually buy the product and it is understandable that labels use it. Of course, the bigger and long-established labels may not need IG (or even Facebook), but a new label needs exposure.
Quality is of course a highly subjective criteria. Scrolling through his discography, I see some unknown acts, some new promising ones that I personally know and like and some more established ones. Also pretty okay, if you keep in mind that the biggest and most popular projects either have their own labels or safe deals with the "big ones".
Personally, I find the idea of a label that knows its capacities and customers more charming than those who move the majority of their copies by sending dead stock to any distributor they are aware of (who oftentimes just accept trades to be kind). It may seem marginal, but this is the reality of Noise. People would be shocked how low the sales of even more established artists can be nowadays.
I have not been around a long time either, but from all the obsessive digging on various websites and social media myself, it honestly doesn't seem too different from back then, in that there's been an over saturation of kinda corny noise labels and artists. The way business is conducted of course has adapted to survive and it is easier to these days, but I've come across plenty of labels since the 80s put out tons of stuff and half of it be kind of a rip off of the bigger acts at the time, all the while advertising with stupid aesthetics or overplayed imagery.
That being said, it's not really my cup of tea, but I can appreciate this person giving relative unknowns a fairly clean cut platform to showcase some potential, all the while allowing me to own a tape by an artist whose other releases are limited (and expensive as shit secondhand when you do find them) and a nice caveat is that they seem to also release everything digitally so everyone can get a chance to listen to stuff that they do want to without having to hover over a refresh button or spend any money on a whim (which again, is like 5-8 dollars anyways).
What's death bed?
Quote from: deutscheasphalt on April 22, 2020, 02:23:16 PM
What's death bed?
https://deathbedtapes.com/ (https://deathbedtapes.com/)
i like em
i really like that you can buy 89 releases for $9 on bandcamp...
From a consumer standpoint, it means that it's going to be a label I don't pay much attention to simply for the fact that ordering stuff is a real cost hit postage wise in small doses when ordering from outside the US. Like I've seen some tapes they've released, think "wow that's cool I'd like to buy that" but the end result is I'm simply not going to because it's not practical.
A label like Foul Prey releases in such micro editions as well and I'm always willing to order the batch of stuff from their bandcamp - even if I have to set a reminder on my phone to order since it sells out in 2 minutes flat. But to order from them a couple times per year, pay for shipping for four tapes, easy peasey.... I'm never going to order ONE tape even if it looks cool because it'll cost me $30.
I can't speak to the memes or any of that because I don't have Instagram but fully grown adults exhibiting embarrassing and cringe worthy behaviour is no new phenomena in noise and PE scenes. Neither is manufactured scarcity and utterly absurd hype for completely pedestrian projects. Such things are staples of any network which is so tiny. My admittedly small engagements with the label have yielded decent enough results and I appreciate the embrace of the digital platform they have gone for. Low editions are what they are and if idiots want to trip up over themselves paying through the nose for em, so be it. Not even talking specifically about Deathbed.
I've got no problem with only a handful of projects being worthwhile in a sea of crap either. I honestly wouldn't seek to change anything because it's all a part of how the whole thing works. You take the rough with the smooth, and I've never found it hard to not have Instagram or to not listen to garbage noise and PE on boring labels.
edit - Fleshlicker - Blind River Killer is available to hear on the Deathbed label and imo the best work of the project thus far. Highly worth checking out.
I think it works fantastically well, considering how "popular" Deathbed has become in less than two years. Also, he's consistently released stuff by Richard Ramirez, Masonna, Vomir...not sure what you mean about all "nameless artists".
Also isn't it a tad hypocritical to reminisce about having to email people to get stuff, then complaining about limited editions? To be fair I'm absolutely biased, Deathbed is an actual friend of mine and I've known him since before he started the label. He's just a workhorse who's more than happy to use his platform for lesser-known outfits. Instagram is just the new format of how people market themselves, and self-aware jokes aren't awful; noise has been tongue-in-cheek forever.
P.S. I did get my artist copies for a split of mine he dropped last year. :)
it's a perfectly reasonable thing to post about and has already provoked some decent discussion? It's not just complaining about a label, it's a comment on newer forms of promotion and circulation through social media. Prefer this infinitely to endless comments about 'mandatory' c15 releases...which incidentally are rarely available anyway due to very similar reasons to those discussed so far.
Quote from: W.K. on April 22, 2020, 07:11:40 PM
So DarkCrawler2000, you are creating an account and your first and only post is to complain about a noise label? Why not post some positive or at least interesting input?
Exactly my thought.
Quote from: PedestrianOrgans on April 22, 2020, 06:15:55 PM
He's just a workhorse who's more than happy to use his platform for lesser-known outfits. Instagram is just the new format of how people market themselves, and self-aware jokes aren't awful; noise has been tongue-in-cheek forever.
This sums up my feelings as well.
I don't know the man running the label personally but everything comes across genuinely authentic to me. He's crafted a really well balanced roster of artists new/old and developed his own aesthetic. I personally really enjoy discovering many of the "newer" acts such as Death Cult Ritual, Fleshlicker, etc and seeing them side by side with K2, Contagious Orgasm, and Controlled Bleeding.
I purchased the digital catalog and I'm personally really enjoying the content. As someone else mentioned, even though the tapes sell out quickly at the least they are preserved digitally and are available at a very affordable price.
Have we gone full circle where small one-man run DIY labels are too hipster?
He takes risks with new artists and reprints stuff that's in demand, that's an OK from me. My only issue is the shipping / lack of distribution, as it costs me $45AUD for a single tape.
Quote from: W.K. on April 22, 2020, 07:11:40 PM
So DarkCrawler2000, you are creating an account and your first and only post is to complain about a noise label? Why not post some positive or at least interesting input?
Ah, your right, I should have made a more positive post on the forum that has an active "PC Faggotry" thread...
Instagram as a platform for promoting IS annoying, but most of the labels i like and follow do have very active IG presences, and guess what they don't make me roll my eyes. All I'm asking for is a sense of curation. The projects I gravitate toward tend to show me that they care about what they're making, with their content. I guess if i wanted another flaccid HN release of boring straight to interface garbage with no edits, i would think deathbed is pretty sick, but I don't.
Quote from: DarkCrawler2000 on April 22, 2020, 11:25:15 PM
Quote from: W.K. on April 22, 2020, 07:11:40 PM
So DarkCrawler2000, you are creating an account and your first and only post is to complain about a noise label? Why not post some positive or at least interesting input?
Ah, your right, I should have made a more positive post on the forum that has an active "PC Faggotry" thread...
Instagram as a platform for promoting IS annoying, but most of the labels i like and follow do have very active IG presences, and guess what they don't make me roll my eyes. All I'm asking for is a sense of curation. The projects I gravitate toward tend to show me that they care about what they're making, with their content. I guess if i wanted another flaccid HN release of boring straight to interface garbage with no edits, i would think deathbed is pretty sick, but I don't.
Don't buy their shit then? You're entitled to an opinion, sure, but I don't see the point of a thread like this. Somebody's label doesn't meet your highly subjective aesthetic standards...so don't pay them any mind (or money)? Problem solved? Nobody is forcing you to consume/care about/respect what they do. This is the kind of shit you talk while you're having a pint with your friends. Dragging it out in public just to say stuff like "I guess if i wanted another flaccid HN release of boring straight to interface garbage with no edits, i would think deathbed is pretty sick, but I don't." just makes you sound like a fucking child.
Thread is fine, we talk. Guy mentioned label as an example of what he dislikes. The "Dont like, dont bother" argument sounds right -i may have used it myself, and will probably do again- but it can be actually used against the one who said it too. "Dont like he does / says , dont bother" . Quite right, quite useless.
Re: promotion : Seems most agree that what this label does is successful promotion. From my 'customer' point of view is exactly the opposite. I dont have any social media account anymore so dont know what happens there, what label does. But i think it can be described as 'too active' / 'try hard' there , am i right ? Well i never appreciate the try hard to promote myself attitude. It doesnt work to me. - Another thing : Whole digital catalog for 10 bucks ? That's how much you value the music of your label ? If you just want a couple of digital releases, it's cheaper to buy the whole catalog ? Another warning sign. "Prefer me, i am cheap." or "Buy massively, i want to be heard" . Another turn off for me. - Labels / artists i appreciate, i found them sooner or later cause of their quality of work, they didnt come to me screaming "I am here! Try me!" . They dont 'release' one per week, there is quality control, and their taste i trust . Most releases i buy i dont even play the short sample before, if exists. - Honestly, that label's catalog has names that i know and i like but i am no way intrigued to check the unknown ones, the opposite !
Success comes through time, quality, consistency, persistance, respect and in this small genre / scene , most of the times comes silently. Selling out your 25-50 copies releases for a couple of years, having people faces 'supporting' in your bandcamp releases, while focusing more on promoting thanks to social media, well, it's not what i would call success. - If that's what you wanted to do, it's all fine.
One of the better label's I've worked with and the release he did with me was in an edition of much more then the smaller editions he normally offers. My second release through him will hopefully be in an even larger edition then the previous.
Haters gonna hate.
It is expected that things will change. If there is some platform to disseminate information of your works, someone will use it. Many have told that IG is where people are. Facebook has been out for many years. Although, there also remains "noise scenes" that seem to be completely separate from the "old international noise scene".
I do have fairly strong opinions about things, but also do realize that it would be foolish to expect that the moment of time when I personally entered and was caught be the spirit of artform, that the identical way of doing things would (or should) continue. I mean, it does continue for me, obviously, but I could not expect that some new people entering today would not approach noise in form of facebook live shows, 1h HWN tracks at bandcamp and ltd 10 copies tapes promoted to 5000 followers at IG. It would be odd to expect things remain done as they were always done, when new folks probably feel no appeal nor nostalgia over the "old ways of doing things". It's fine with me, but I don't even feel we're really talking about the same thing at that point. Same conclusion was probably done by many already in several transition moments of genre.
That was in general. Deathbed, I never heard of, at least that I'd remember.
I didn't realise the whole discography was on sale for $9. Instantly went and purchased.
Quote from: BlindDate87 on April 23, 2020, 09:08:00 PM
Quote from: NaturalOrthodoxy on April 23, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
I didn't realise the whole discography was on sale for $9. Instantly went and purchased.
What's your point here? I guess the stakes are incredibly low when it's $9. Confused by how many people seem personally offended at someone questioning promo tactics.
I find it sort of strange too. Sales are great.
say what you will about the label but I personally am strenuously opposed to the guy from my chemical romance getting into noise
Quote from: l.b. on April 24, 2020, 08:40:41 AM
say what you will about the label but I personally am strenuously opposed to the guy from my chemical romance getting into noise
I've got bad news for you - the fanatics who post to message boards and release limited edition tapes aren't the only people who listen to noise. And I'd imagine that most maniacs here don't
only listen to noise. I worked in a record store for 20 years and can tell you that listeners from all walks of life dip their toes into the wild side, some deeper than others of course, and I've met countless musicians across all genres that share an innate fascination with the limitless possibilities of sound. I've never met Gerard Way (and have never listened to My Chemical Romance) but my good friend directs many of his music videos and has told me for a decade that he's into weird shit. I believe it. On a similar emo front, Davey Havok has asked me about my noise activities every time I've run into him for the last 20 years (not sure if he's actually into it but he certainly understands what it is). And - true fucking story - Gavin Rossdale & Gwen Stefani walked past me once while I was wearing a Prurient hoodie. He stopped, turned around, pointed and said "Is that a Prurient hoodie? Nice." I wonder if he has a copy of The History of AIDS at home.
Back to Gerard Way - if he's using his influence to help support the underground, even if it's just to post a pic on instagram, that's killer. I don't have any Deathbed releases and don't think they're really for me but, thankfully, there's more than enough other good shit out there of interest that I don't need to spend emotional energy on the rest.
Quote from: l.b. on April 24, 2020, 08:40:41 AM
say what you will about the label but I personally am strenuously opposed to the guy from my chemical romance getting into noise
Hopefully someone from Fall Out Boy will start a noise project- I am strenuously for anyone getting into anything they want, especially if it gets a reaction out of gatekeepers.
Quote from: pureterror on April 24, 2020, 11:27:45 PM
Back to Gerard Way - if he's using his influence to help support the underground, even if it's just to post a pic on instagram, that's killer.
I, personally, am very thankful to people like him (though not him in particular - simply because I never encountered his social media). Without people posting noise online, I know that I would have never come across it in the first place.
I am sure that there are, right now, potentially great noise musicians who do not play noise for the simple fact that they have not been exposed to it. You never know who a post on a forum, facebook, or even instagram might reach and inspire.
nah i'm not down sorry, don't care how cool davey havok and dave grohl are. i am not interested. i wish i were a gatekeeper so i could kick all metalcore kids out of noise forever. we don't need "support," we don't need more people in noise.
Quote from: l.b. on April 25, 2020, 07:03:19 PM
nah i'm not down sorry, don't care how cool davey havok and dave grohl are. i am not interested. i wish i were a gatekeeper so i could kick all metalcore kids out of noise forever. we don't need "support," we don't need more people in noise.
Amen. Keep industrial out of harsh noise.
Quote from: l.b. on April 25, 2020, 07:03:19 PM
nah i'm not down sorry, don't care how cool davey havok and dave grohl are. i am not interested. i wish i were a gatekeeper so i could kick all metalcore kids out of noise forever. we don't need "support," we don't need more people in noise.
Habibi, anytime you wanta come and "kick me out" for being a metalcore kid I'm more then down for it.