There seems to be no dedicated thread for the releases of one of my all-time favourite outfits, whose refusal to compromise/sell out, obnoxious attitude and general air of darkness makes their output really special for me. Ignoring collaborations and split releases, here's what I have:
Punishment (Tesco LP) - amazing Crass style luxury packaging and an album which defined what came to be known as 'power electronics' alongside early Genocide Organ material, almost a decade after William Bennett coined the term - the 80s PE was more of a micro-scene. Harsh and bleak tones throughout, a major bummer of a release.
The Age Of Dissent (Tesco LP) - I like this more, maybe their pinnacle for me. Hard to follow semi-buried vocals, electronic piercing sounds which could have been developed for torture, some unexpected samples (Gary Clail and a twee child singer) plus simply breathtaking nihilistic packaging.
A Wealth Of Misery / Lest We Forget (Xn 7") - very similar to the above two albums in sound, again with Crass-style foldout packaging and crude effective graphics.
Catholic Priests Fuck Children (Praxis Dr Bearman LP) - the crudest and most brutal imagery they ever used on the sleeve, LP has some more ambient sounds in parts but suffers a little for not having all the tracks segueing - still a great album.
Zero Tolerance (Membrum Debile Propaganda pic disc 7") - superb A-side of simultaneously depressed and aggressive electronics, B-side isn't one of their finer moments though.
Prelude To Terror (Open Wound 2x C90) - doesn't seem to be listed on discogs but I picked up this nice fold-out repackage of three cassettes (Legion of Hell, Passage of Demons, Sufferance Salvation plus some bonus unlisted material) during the late 90s. Predominantly the effective dark ambient material which bypasses the Hollywood cliches of the genre which became 'dark ambient' to make something more unique, unsettling and darkly psychedelic - made with such crude equipment and making a virtue out of that.
Blood and Sand (Cold Spring CD) - a full-length and major version of the 'dark ambient' incarnation released as the second Gulf War started - the sounds almost imperceptibly change from soothing to annoying throughout the long pieces - very unique.
Pure Hatred (Membrum Debile Propaganda LP) - repackage of early 90s material edited from the original Spasm cassette - some great sounds on here but also a few failed experiments (Grey Wolves go dance music at one point - doesn't really work) - also whoever at the label made that 'Jesus Hates You And We Do So' graphic needs a lesson in grammar and how a potentially great piece of imagery can be rendered ludicrous by a word being in the wrong order.
Division (Tesco CD) - their most unpopular release but one I have come to appreciate - the digital age was here so they made their no-fi statement by using ultra-lo-rate mp3s as samples and the most crudely mixed and genuinely horrible noise as a major CD release - some great vocals on here and use of crude percussion, but it really is difficult listening, which I think was the point. Crass inspired graphics once again and a quote from 'Bloody Revolutions' in the poster.
Judgement (Hospital Productions CD) - superb remastering of a great ambient era cassette. The crude graphics look terrific in a jewel case to me, musically this is damn near perfect and my favourite in that style.
The Grey Wolves represent a very authentic response to the UK's mainstream culture and corrupt politics of the 1980s and 1990s. Not especially erudite or likely to be considered high art, but a real sound of despair and hatred rooted in harsh social and economic reality. Untutored in the best sense of the word. As 'for real' and post-ironic as it gets. All of these records sound like they could be suicide notes or terrorist manifestos. Never due to be discussed in Mute magazine, The Wire or Artforum - suspected of dubious politics with no evidence beyond the distaste their work creates in the average citizen - looked at by the arbiters of musical historification as an embarrassing industrial footnote - yet to me these recordings are the real deal and everything I ever wanted from this type of music/art.
Have got the Judgement CD, but I wasn't too fond of it if I remember correctly, should play it again.
I got two CDr rereleases from Open Wound: Punishment and Where Darkness Reigns, and it's been a while since I played these too, but I definitely liked the darkness and ominous sensation in these!
One of my absolute all-time favourites, good summation! Early material is nigh-on untouchable.
http://www.oldeuropacafe.com/main.php?nav=pd&prdct=12348
unmastered excerpts from the forthcoming grey wolves/wertham/survival instinct collaboration lp
http://muhmur.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/grey-wolves.html
Some live pictures from 2004.
I have only three Grey Wolves LPs, and my favourite is without doubt "Catholic Priests Fuck Children" - and most especially the track 'New Luddites'. Forceful and firey noise with rudimentary 'patterns' just beneath the surface is how I'd describe it. Don't remember where the 'ambient' parts HongKongGoologong talks about are, but I suppose it's all relative! Maybe I just listened to it too loud?! Anyway, sounds and presentation perfect, and I'd recommend this to anyone.
Quote>http://www.oldeuropacafe.com/main.php?nav=pd&prdct=12348
>unmastered excerpts from the forthcoming grey wolves/wertham/survival instinct collaboration lp
Samples sound GREAT - looking forward to this! Any info on / who is behind Survival Instinct?
Also love the albums title - "Ramraiding the Abyss". It certainly captures the particular Grey Wolves attitude / antagonism.
Quote from: re:evolution on October 01, 2013, 05:45:05 AM
Any info on / who is behind Survival Instinct?
If I am not mistaken this is a new project for Trev Ward solo - a 'Grey Wolves Splinter Cell'
yes I confirm. more atmospheric stuff, yet still loud and intense. it does not sound like grey wolves but it has the same threatening atmosphere.
regarding GW I like everything, with my preference on vocal oriented hits like victory throught violence, religion, ecc.
Those samples sound good indeed. Something to note in my 'to be released' list.
"'cultural terrorism' never 'terrorised' anyone (a term, we picked up in the days of ronald reagen and his moral majority - who were using the term 'cultural terrorism' to attack heavy metal music/bands!), we used this term to good effect (with tongue often firmly in cheek). 'Outsider Art' as a term, would have sufficed. Long ago i reached the conclusion that if power electronics / extreme electronics (call it what you will) is being performned only to 'the converted', it is nothing more than entertainment and those pumping out the noise, nothing more than entertainers, to be listed in a sub genre file that sits not far from the established bands file. 'Another form of rock and roll for the cultural elite'. As for PE being blasted out and causing panic and terror. it would more than likely cause nothing more than minor iirritation, until the plug was pulled but an apache helicopter hovering above a crowded high street, letting off a few rounds, now you're talking :->"
-Trev Ward
Quoteauthor=HongKongGoolagong link topic=3936.msg33586#msg33586 date=1380468929]
...yet to me these recordings are the real deal and everything I ever wanted from this type of music/art.
Ha, spot on! Top GW record for me is The Age Of Dissent.
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on September 29, 2013, 06:35:29 PM
Division (Tesco CD) - their most unpopular release but one I have come to appreciate - the digital age was here so they made their no-fi statement by using ultra-lo-rate mp3s as samples and the most crudely mixed and genuinely horrible noise as a major CD release
I don't know is it most unpopular? Thinking that pressing was 750 copies, and seems like near mint condition copies sell start 20-25,- and upwards. While 50% smaller vinyl pressing of previous album 40-50 euro... Comparing pressing amounts, age of release etc. It seems like this unpopularity doesn't effect much?
Anyway, I feel that it's probably possible to say that they made "statement" by using crappy mp3s and low bitrate pixelated images, but one could also assume that this was not "statement", but simply unplanned outcome. I remember when Open Wound released its first CDR and they advertised it as CD. I mentioned this could be annoying for many people. He asked "what is CDR" kind of question. After I told, contacted pressing plant for confirmation and then on Open Wound site was statement with info of CDR format.
They didn't intentionally make CDR, it just happened because it was what was happening at the time. It's curious to see, that in times when xerox and hard to find images resulted amazing artwork, and while magnetic tape and hard-to-find audio propaganda resulted neat details to sound, as soon as mp3's, youtube videos and low-bit-rate images are all over the place - that's what GW works became?
See latest Japan live LP. I like the sound and songs, but god damn - the cover? How many pixels per inch? 30? One step from becoming lego-art. It is very unfortunate turn, as I have hard time believing it would be intentional. Rather carelessness or simply not giving a fuck. Moment when artists don't give a fuck, I'm sure audience is just about ready to do so too.
In that sense:
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on September 29, 2013, 06:35:29 PM
The Grey Wolves represent a very authentic response to the UK's mainstream culture and corrupt politics of the 1980s and 1990s. Not especially erudite or likely to be considered high art, but a real sound of despair and hatred rooted in harsh social and economic reality.
Seems decent conclusion. However, I do feel (like with A LOT of power electronics), it's more of listeners theory about something what just happened. I'm quite sure that eventually when someone analyses the usage of kaos-pads and ipods on power electronics live gigs, it won't be about lazy artists seeking easiest way of modern tools, but become "
critique reflecting fast paced consumerist cycle", haha!
My utmost personal favorite is 3rd full length LP and absolute epic contribution to War Against Society !
I do like, and buy everything what GW has done. Including the current and whatever upcoming. But the bigger fan boy phase has started to go away due lowered standards.
Similar to the sound quality of Division, the lo-res artwork to the great 'Many Are Called But Few Get Up' collaboration 12" with Con-Dom is SO ugly and badly done that I assumed it was part of an aesthetic - using the same crude approach in the modern era as they always did back when the xerox images would be degraded and off-centred and the recordings were seemingly made on malfunctioning 4-track machines with furred-up tape heads. But maybe they indeed just didn't know what they were doing. I could even put the 'unprofessional' and homemade looking Open Wound websites there have been into that aesthetic, but that really would be me forcing the interpretation.
Not waiting for a 'luxury commemorative reissue' of the classic LPs and instead putting out a cheap and sloppy homemade CD-R really does seem to be true to the DIY, anti-commodity, anti-coffee table transgression elements of the work though.
I don't have the Free Speech Series EP, can anyone give a review?
Here is a scan from the late 90s Open Wound magazine in which The Grey Wolves imagine 9/11 before it happened with prescience, relish and the most cynical of black humour: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LhuXcQK6rNQ/Smja-g5nDwI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/qvO-qo0wCrQ/s1600/published+%2798.jpg
What about Incarceration + Passage Of Demons, I just got agile of this yesterday and it stacks up quite well to the rest of their catalogue.
(http://i.imgur.com/DLBsm05.jpg)
sent out for print today
http://youtu.be/AOJdEDQeWrc
promo video for the forthcoming RAMRAIDING THEE ABYSS LP
out in December, limited version still available from old europa cafe.
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on October 06, 2013, 05:59:07 PMthe great 'Many Are Called But Few Get Up' collaboration 12" with Con-Dom is SO ugly and badly done that I assumed it was part of an aesthetic
great record, but yeah, i always thought it looked like shit...
(http://store.coldspring.co.uk/image/cache/data/CSR/csr42lp_600px-500x500.jpg)
THE GREY WOLVES 'BLOOD AND SAND' LP & CD
Originally released as a cassette in 1990 (with Shock City), the original tapes have been radically remixed by the band, then digitally mastered to bring out the extreme sound of the UKs premiere Industrial unit. Do not expect simple noise – this CD contains extreme electronics, mixed with dark ambient rumblings, the sound of armoured helicopters and military transmissions. It was originally issued as a comment of the Gulf War, then raging in the early 1990s. Released in 2002 on CD (CSR42CD), we're now reissuing this gem onto vinyl for the first time. Ltd x 400 copies in a full colour sleeve, the vinyl is accompanied by the CD version in a card sleeve.
Ltd x 100 Grey Vinyl (through Cold Spring mailorder only - LAST COPIES!)
Ltd x 300 Black Vinyl
LISTEN ON SOUNDCLOUD (https://soundcloud.com/coldspring/the-grey-wolves-sand)
Click here for ordering and info (http://store.coldspring.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=3894)
_______________________________________________________
Over 'n out
Jo / COLD SPRING
http://www.coldspring.co.uk
Out now:
MASONNA 'Spectrum Ripper' LP & CD
SCOTT MILLER / LEE CAMFIELD / MERZBOW 'No Closure' CD
TROUM 'Syzygie' CD
SLEEP RESEARCH FACILITY 'Nostromo' T-Shirt
SKULLFLOWER / MASTERY 'Skullflower / Mastery' LP
WICKED KING WICKER 'Evolving' CD
SKULLFLOWER 'White Wolf' 12"
MERZBOW Vs NORDVARGR 'Partikel III' CD
CLICK HERE FOR ALL AVAILABLE COLD SPRING RELEASES (http://store.coldspring.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=24)
total classic Justin!!!
anyway. ramraiding will be ready in a couple of weeks. I no longer have any limited versions apart from those who already ordered it. some left at Old europa cafe.
Was listening to GREY WOLVES "Legions of Hell" tape couple of days ago. Wondering how great it would be to someone do series of reissues of GW. I have vague feeling I have been told there is some sort of compilation in works, but don't remember for sure...
Legions of Hell tape belongs to more atmospheric side of GW. I'd rate it higher than "Judgement" tape for example. That is not bad, but this one has darker and more sinister feel to it. Always waving mutated sound, slowed down sounds, bells, howls, etc.. far from anything one could call power electronics, closer to atmosheric ritual ambient or such. Yet calling this muddy and crude works "ambient" barely does justice either. GW's contribution to War Against Society belongs to this side of project, yet I think most consider it most of all PE project.
GW albums stand among genre classics. Hospital made already effort to get GW's "atmospheric" side for bigger audience in form of "Judgement" reissue, I think material like "Legions Of Hell" would be also good to be preserved on good quality CD and remind greatness of bands lesser known works..
Most can be heard in Youtube...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQWKuCb4Nc
Massive 30 minutes+ b-side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3740I5TSN5o
I totally agree with what you did write above. Unfortunatly i dont have the contact nor (must important) the funds to do something like that.
I hope somebody will be up for this task and give us (and all the people who came a "bit" late) a proper reissue. I would like that. Totally.
Some Times Ago there were Talks on FB Side about a Nails ov Christ Re issue, but heard nothing about it since.
I listened to the Ramraiding Thee Abyss LP by Grey Wolves/Wertham/Survival Instinct twice today and liked it very much. Besides this record, I only have a few other GW releases: Blood and Sand is a good dark ambient-like album, and I also like the crudeness of the Intolerable split live tape with Con-Dom. I don't remember GW's contribution to the Disco-Mortem compilation at all, so I'll have to give it a listen. The track on Waging War Against You is fantastic; so sinister and unique with those choir(?)-sounds.
Based on what I've heard, I'd love to hear more Grey Wolves, so I also hope there will be some reissues.
Was just playing this:
https://www.discogs.com/Con-Dom--Grey-Wolves-Intolerable/release/691089
And noticed it misses the GW side completely. Would appreciate a rip!
Quote from: tiny_tove on October 17, 2013, 02:36:23 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/DLBsm05.jpg)
sent out for print today
Through a mix of an order from Peripheral Records and trade of the extras from DAP I have ended up with the full special edition of this, and it's a wonderful thing - feels like a closing point for the end of an era somehow. Standout track is your Shankhill Butchers thing but also very fond of the Survival Instinct tracks and hope Mr Ward can do more work like this. Meanwhile Salford Electronics tracks are now also floating around the internet.
Very glad to have bothered to write about The Grey Wolves in the book I did as the pleasure I have got is immeasurable - chapter was only a rewrite of my first post here really.
Also just out now - JFK/THE GREY WOLVES "Assassin" LP - reissue of an extremely obscure cassette release from 1988 which must have come out in very limited numbers indeed originally - surprisingly ambient and pleasant sounding instrumental recordings, drum machine, electronics and guitars on beautiful blood red vinyl with Lee Harvey Oswald cover art.
seem to remember grey wolves not playing at mike Dando's 50th b'day event in brum as he was too pissed to perform.
event excellent otherwise btw
also got some fanzine by hom from god knows when with loads of stuff about USA skinheads
Has anyone heard the JFK/Grey Wolves Assassin LP (or the tape, of which the LP is a reissue)? There are no sound samples and it's not on Youtube, so I'm on the fence about buying it.
The Assassin LP is great I think. Very calm, or "brooding" if you will. Their respective sounds go very well together. Definitely worth the €$£.
Quote from: acsenger on May 25, 2016, 10:51:52 AM
Has anyone heard the JFK/Grey Wolves Assassin LP
It's much more in the vein of stuff like "Judgement" than the later GW LPs on Tesco, but way less tape crumble kind of sound. I would liken the fidelity to something like "Blood and Sand". Left me pretty underwhelmed to be honest.
I'd assume that JFK contribution dominates in form of constant drum machine beats. It seems clear that this wasn't intended as "album" like GW stuff on Tesco for example. It was collaboration tape, which remained almost unheard for decades. I have no complaints, though! I think it's not to be expected to be competing with albums, but simply collaboration release that presents fusion of JFK's atmospheric repeating rhythms and GW's suffocating atmospheric electronics. Perhaps lack of very drastic variation is the weakness of album, but as it stands rather unique recording in both bands discography, for me this is very justified addition to collection. May need more listening to full present itself beyond the obvious clear rhythms.
Salford Electronics is out now too
The collaboration with Gen Org is amazing.
The Collab. with Sudden Infant and Macronympha is stunning.
UK people may be interested to know that I have the Catholic Priests CD from Hospital here. £9.00 plus p+p.
Email unrestproductions@yahoo.co.uk.
Damn this reissue of Catholic Priests is good!
First of all, I remember talking with label about all the possibilities how to make it as close as possible to original. Hospital was considering various options, but this slipcase and jewelbox with full original design is great. No blurs, no cmyk color fuck ups, no revisionism. 3 panel "booklet" is basically replica of original, and inlay/slipcase is tasty addition.
But what about sound itself? I was mentioned that they hunted each track original DAT tape master, that it wasn't just one DAT master, but tracks scattered on multiple tapes. And now when you listen for the CD what presents the dat material "as is", without restoration or modification, one can conclude that even if you have the LP, this is worth to have.
It may be tough for vinyl fans to admit, but this material does benefit from CD release. 1996 dmm cut ain't the best possible sound if comparing to depth and clarity of all detail in these original recordings. Suddenly many tracks appear as veil of hissy cloud is removed. Not that I'd get rid of my original LP, nor my passion for vinyl records, but if you objectively look at the facts... this cd is better.
With the stream of rather lame looking reissues, this one stands as good example how they could be done. Respecting the original, but also professionally!
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on September 02, 2017, 12:59:35 PM
3 panel "booklet" is basically replica of original, and inlay/slipcase is tasty addition.
This is my favorite part of the reissue. It's almost as if the original had been perfectly shrunk down.
Sadly not available from Hospital's download section. I hope it gets included sooner rather than later.
I think you can see pretty much all you want to see without opening it. It is old PDB catalogue printed inside slipcase and you can quite easily read it simply by looking inside.
Quite curious for the GW last album. Being announced as last album, and these seemed to be somehow "tension" there judging by some online comments. I wonder if GW will keep doing gigs and/or re-issues, but certainly hope handful of old milestone releases would be re-issued properly before they fully quit...
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on September 07, 2017, 03:12:28 PM
Quite curious for the GW last album. Being announced as last album, and these seemed to be somehow "tension" there judging by some online comments. I wonder if GW will keep doing gigs and/or re-issues, but certainly hope handful of old milestone releases would be re-issued properly before they fully quit...
Assuming you are talking about Exit Strategy? Description on Tesco sounds like its soundtrack work being released in advance of the film as opposed to a GW album proper. I'd assume the parameters of soundtrack work exclude some of the more PE aspects of the GW work, sadly.
Personally, i'm less than thrilled about Jerome being involved with this one as I don't think his tastes in production and fidelity marries well with the voyeuristic and damaged quality of my favorite GW recordings... and the samples posted up on Tesco seem to support that. Despite these concerns, i've enthusiastically preordered the lp from Jane. For my tastes, a bad GW albums is still going to be more interesting than the majority of other new albums released this year.
Quote from: Warfare Noise on September 11, 2017, 08:52:53 PM
Assuming you are talking about Exit Strategy? Description on Tesco sounds like its soundtrack work being released in advance of the film as opposed to a GW album proper. I'd assume the parameters of soundtrack work exclude some of the more PE aspects of the GW work, sadly.
When I read "as yet unmade" I took that to mean that it's a soundtrack to a non-existent film. In the same way that some acts specify that an album is "meant to be a soundtrack for [X activity or concept]" I assumed that phrase was included to give some kind of diegetic context.
I might be totally wrong though, in which case it'd be cool to hear TGW take on soundtracking duties!
Anyone else find "Exit Strategy" over produced and underwhelming?
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on November 07, 2017, 09:32:21 AM
Anyone else find "Exit Strategy" over produced and underwhelming?
It sounds like boring techno to me or something like that. Big letdown.
Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on November 07, 2017, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on November 07, 2017, 09:32:21 AM
Anyone else find "Exit Strategy" over produced and underwhelming?
It sounds like boring techno to me or something like that. Big letdown.
I enjoy it as a standalone release but granted it's not the "farewell" album for such an important band that it could have been.
I'd agree with you to some extent- especially on the former. I still liked it but if this is to be the final Grey Wolves album they certainly didn't end on the bang I'd have hoped for....
It's that Salford Electronics stuff that's gone straight to boogie wonderland.
I can't blame people for getting softer as they get older. The best Grey Wolves material was time and place stuff that still manages to get that particular feeling across. But however possible it might be it's not always desirable for artists to maintain the kind of rage they had when they were in the twenties or thirties. There's something phoney about that.
So I'm not saying "Exit Strategy" should have been just like their earlier material. Probably not even desirable. It's just that, as an album in it's own right, it just isn't that special.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on November 07, 2017, 09:32:21 AM
Anyone else find "Exit Strategy" over produced and underwhelming?
Still waiting on my copy (along with GO) from Tesco USA but samples have me concerned.
Still standing by my above post:
"For my tastes, a bad GW albums is still going to be more interesting than the majority of other new albums released this year." until such time that I receive it and am proved otherwise
Not nearly the fan of The Grey Wolves as some of you are here, but after a single (and at times distracted) listen, I liked it. Even the techno track, "Seizure", is decent enough. Best track seemed to be "Flatline". I liked like last year's Assassin quite a bit, if that gives any context to my perspective.
I still havent peeped EXIT STRATEGY; but been jamming a few of the early tapes a lot (CHAOS OV CREATION, JUDGEMENT, LEGION OF HELL, RED TERROR BLACK TERROR, ATROCITY EXHIBITION) as well as AGE OF DISSENT, CATHOLIC PRIESTS (new mastering does sound great) and BLOOD AND SAND. Need to revisit PUNISHMENT..... i love when they fuck w janky/cheap rhythms, and their "dark ambient" stuff is perfect cause it sounds so raw and crude. Both LEGION OF HELL and BLOOD AND SAND getting spun the most.
Listened to Exit Strategy a fair number of times now and agree on a few things:
This is not the farewell album you'd expect from such a legendary act
Production is too clean, one track even sounds like propergol
Ultimately it brings to mind Emperor whose last studio album was effectively a solo Ihsahn album but released under the Emperor name. If Exit Strategy had been released under Salford Electronics or another name it wouldn't be such an issue, but when you carry the Grey Wolves name, expectations are higher and ultimately this disappoints.
Exit Strategy doesn't sound like the Grey Wolves as we knew them at all but it's pretty enjoyable music/electronics to my ears. Division was fifteen years ago now and that felt like the album they'd never finish - no-one really expected another after that, and this possibly pseudo-GW album is just a bizarre posthumous bonus. The statement on the sleeve about what the Propergol dude did is amusing - just about everything.
I also enjoyed the Salford Electronics album on Tesco - much more downbeat than this new GW album, closest thing in my collection I could compare it to is Band of Pain.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on November 07, 2017, 11:35:39 PM
It's that Salford Electronics stuff that's gone straight to boogie wonderland.
Speaking of 'dance-floor beats', this is a complete oddity in The Grey Wolves discography (from 1990) which I was unaware of until today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adomhkezb70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adomhkezb70)
Hm, that's almost listenable for me - there's a nice lo-fi, scummy quality about that I dig. Industrialists are always tempted to join everyone else in the world on the dance floor, and it's usually better when they resists, but I'll give that one a few points.
Quote from: re:evolution on December 14, 2017, 06:10:00 AM
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on November 07, 2017, 11:35:39 PM
It's that Salford Electronics stuff that's gone straight to boogie wonderland.
Speaking of 'dance-floor beats', this is a complete oddity in The Grey Wolves discography (from 1990) which I was unaware of until today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adomhkezb70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adomhkezb70)
Sounds like a boss fight theme from an N64 platformer game, I dig it
Mixed feelings about this release. Kind cool in it's own way and sounds great on vinyl but this is far away from what I generally like about GW. I'm good as long as I have 'Catholic Priests...' though. Hope there will be a vinyl edition of the remastered CD that just came out.
Dug up this thread to express my gratitude for the OP's words which echo my own deep appreciation for the Grey Wolves very closely. One of the first artists that I truly fell in love with when I first started listening to Industrial music. In my mind, one of the few groups to carry what I would consider a "true," "pure" "Industrial" ethos, aesthetic and sound and have maintained it with great consistency over many years. Cassette material from the 1980's is especially cherished by me for the very warm, dark, claustrophobic and more "ambient" approach. Exemplified on tracks like 'Suite Mentalle' or 'Rune Filled Eyes' on The Atrocity Exhibition. Relaxing, but so utterly full of tension. Absolutely perfect in my mind, like demented Tangerine Dream evoking dreary images of Thatcher's England. Huge inspiration to me in so many ways.
Have enjoyed basically all of their output and thought Exit Strategy was pretty good, but certainly not the farewell I'd like from such an inspiring group. Grey Wolves forever!
I missed the chance to see them in Birmingham years ago and regret it as I have been slowly getting stuff here and there where I can. I think they may have played with Con-Dom, Shift and Control at the time. Couldn't go due to transport..
I scored about 8 Grey Wolves Cdrs this payday that really boosted my collection massiveley. They are from their Industrial Heritage label, that lead to me scoring some other bits that I am waiting on. Got a rip of No New Jerusalem which is the rawest I have heard and found a blog with a ton of Opera for Infantry stuff.Recent buys a few months prior to this were Blood and Sand and the split lp and a cd with Con-Dom Many Are Called But Few Will Get Up along with Waging War Against You CD. Any experiences with them live, what were they like?
I´m secretly having the wet dream somebody (VOD?) releases a box with most of the tape releases and a proper booklet. And an appropriate LP version of "Division".
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 28, 2022, 12:10:12 PM
I´m secretly having the wet dream somebody (VOD?) releases a box with most of the tape releases and a proper booklet. And an appropriate LP version of "Division".
Me too, but dickhead here missed out on Come Org box, so I might start a GW/Cond-Dom back catalogue savings acount where I save and save so I am prepared for anything like this. I notice any GW reissues sell out in no time.
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 28, 2022, 12:10:12 PM
I´m secretly having the wet dream somebody (VOD?) releases a box with most of the tape releases and a proper booklet. And an appropriate LP version of "Division".
This will never happen, and shouldn't either, especially not by VOD. There's a fairly substantial reissue that will be out eventually, which covers a lot of material. There's also a book in the works, and there's a few other related projects that should see the light of the day in the near future.
As for live experiences with Grey Wolves, seen them two times, and it's been awful\great once and really excellent the second time. Curious if anyone has seen them play back in the day with the two of them? I've never seen any live photos that had Trev Ward in them
Great news x 2 in a post. I had heard off a friend that he did play live on rare accasions, but all the live stuff I have on DVD is with Mike Dando.
Quote from: totalblack on January 28, 2022, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 28, 2022, 12:10:12 PM
I´m secretly having the wet dream somebody (VOD?) releases a box with most of the tape releases and a proper booklet. And an appropriate LP version of "Division".
This will never happen, and shouldn't either, especially not by VOD. There's a fairly substantial reissue that will be out eventually, which covers a lot of material. There's also a book in the works, and there's a few other related projects that should see the light of the day in the near future.
As for live experiences with Grey Wolves, seen them two times, and it's been awful\great once and really excellent the second time. Curious if anyone has seen them play back in the day with the two of them? I've never seen any live photos that had Trev Ward in them
Great news on the book and reissue. Look forward to seeing this develop.
Quote from: totalblack on January 28, 2022, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 28, 2022, 12:10:12 PM
I´m secretly having the wet dream somebody (VOD?) releases a box with most of the tape releases and a proper booklet. And an appropriate LP version of "Division".
This will never happen, and shouldn't either, especially not by VOD. There's a fairly substantial reissue that will be out eventually, which covers a lot of material. There's also a book in the works, and there's a few other related projects that should see the light of the day in the near future.
Good for the book, although I am more interested in the musical reissue. But I don´t understand why a box "should not happen"? I actually think it would be an excellent documentation instead.
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 29, 2022, 12:04:18 AM
Quote from: totalblack on January 28, 2022, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 28, 2022, 12:10:12 PM
I´m secretly having the wet dream somebody (VOD?) releases a box with most of the tape releases and a proper booklet. And an appropriate LP version of "Division".
This will never happen, and shouldn't either, especially not by VOD. There's a fairly substantial reissue that will be out eventually, which covers a lot of material. There's also a book in the works, and there's a few other related projects that should see the light of the day in the near future.
Good for the book, although I am more interested in the musical reissue. But I don´t understand why a box "should not happen"? I actually think it would be an excellent documentation instead.
It's just something that isn't possible to do properly and present in any manner that would do the material justice. There's probably about 50 tapes, judging from what is even listed on discogs, and I know that there are more that exist- that's also JUST Grey Wolves. Not including Nails Ov Christ, Opera For Infantry, Irritant, Brutal Love, Blackshirt Orchestra, etc. There's tons of repeats, live one-offs, and mixes of previously released material, in some cases 5-10 editions of the same tape with different artwork, out on different labels (still mostly self released). An exhaustive boxset would have to be so massive that it wouldn't make sense to produce, or even be listenable. I honestly think that most of the best Grey Wolves material is on the cassettes however, and the reissues that are forthcoming will be more than satisfactory to most listeners. VOD has a habit of cramming C60s onto single LPs, and most of these tapes are C60-C90s, it just wouldn't really work in my opinion. I'll write you more about it in private.
Quote from: totalblack on January 29, 2022, 02:47:49 AM
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 29, 2022, 12:04:18 AM
Quote from: totalblack on January 28, 2022, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 28, 2022, 12:10:12 PM
I´m secretly having the wet dream somebody (VOD?) releases a box with most of the tape releases and a proper booklet. And an appropriate LP version of "Division".
This will never happen, and shouldn't either, especially not by VOD. There's a fairly substantial reissue that will be out eventually, which covers a lot of material. There's also a book in the works, and there's a few other related projects that should see the light of the day in the near future.
Good for the book, although I am more interested in the musical reissue. But I don´t understand why a box "should not happen"? I actually think it would be an excellent documentation instead.
It's just something that isn't possible to do properly and present in any manner that would do the material justice. There's probably about 50 tapes, judging from what is even listed on discogs, and I know that there are more that exist- that's also JUST Grey Wolves. Not including Nails Ov Christ, Opera For Infantry, Irritant, Brutal Love, Blackshirt Orchestra, etc. There's tons of repeats, live one-offs, and mixes of previously released material, in some cases 5-10 editions of the same tape with different artwork, out on different labels (still mostly self released). An exhaustive boxset would have to be so massive that it wouldn't make sense to produce, or even be listenable. I honestly think that most of the best Grey Wolves material is on the cassettes however, and the reissues that are forthcoming will be more than satisfactory to most listeners. VOD has a habit of cramming C60s onto single LPs, and most of these tapes are C60-C90s, it just wouldn't really work in my opinion. I'll write you more about it in private.
cool, thank you. Yeah I don´t have any comparison term for VOD because I didn´t buy anything of his releases before now (Nekrophile box, which wasn´t shipped so far and I´m actually very curious about the sound quality).
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 29, 2022, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: totalblack on January 29, 2022, 02:47:49 AM
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 29, 2022, 12:04:18 AM
Quote from: totalblack on January 28, 2022, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: Into_The_Void on January 28, 2022, 12:10:12 PM
I´m secretly having the wet dream somebody (VOD?) releases a box with most of the tape releases and a proper booklet. And an appropriate LP version of "Division".
This will never happen, and shouldn't either, especially not by VOD. There's a fairly substantial reissue that will be out eventually, which covers a lot of material. There's also a book in the works, and there's a few other related projects that should see the light of the day in the near future.
Good for the book, although I am more interested in the musical reissue. But I don´t understand why a box "should not happen"? I actually think it would be an excellent documentation instead.
It's just something that isn't possible to do properly and present in any manner that would do the material justice. There's probably about 50 tapes, judging from what is even listed on discogs, and I know that there are more that exist- that's also JUST Grey Wolves. Not including Nails Ov Christ, Opera For Infantry, Irritant, Brutal Love, Blackshirt Orchestra, etc. There's tons of repeats, live one-offs, and mixes of previously released material, in some cases 5-10 editions of the same tape with different artwork, out on different labels (still mostly self released). An exhaustive boxset would have to be so massive that it wouldn't make sense to produce, or even be listenable. I honestly think that most of the best Grey Wolves material is on the cassettes however, and the reissues that are forthcoming will be more than satisfactory to most listeners. VOD has a habit of cramming C60s onto single LPs, and most of these tapes are C60-C90s, it just wouldn't really work in my opinion. I'll write you more about it in private.
cool, thank you. Yeah I don´t have any comparison term for VOD because I didn´t buy anything of his releases before now (Nekrophile box, which wasn´t shipped so far and I´m actually very curious about the sound quality).
Do you have any more information regarding the book?
Who is publishing it?
Is there a possibility they could have been legit Tory supporters?
I just wondered as I was browsing images of the Punishment LP on Tesco from '92. I am also reminded of the made up quote attributed to Baroness Margaret Thatcher on Zero Cabal's "Terror Campaign" comp tape from '94 (it still irks me, a decade after I copped the CD reissue. Why the fuck would anyone even pretend to like her?! hahaha.) Are these quotes just private jokes I am not privvy to - or are they all legit in their praise?
Quote from: no_baizuo_allowed on April 21, 2022, 10:34:28 AM
Why the fuck would anyone even pretend to like her?! hahaha.
One can read GW manifestos
Confusion as well as
Cultural Terrorist Manifesto and it would seem obvious why not? Like as we speak, if you'd pick up some political direction or public figure that is widely disliked among underground art/music scene and use it without blatantly clear stand of opposition, one may even provoke some sort of reactions unlike when lining up with that goes perfectly among general consensus?
Anyway, there is curious example, very little connected to GW, but The Apostles tapes used to be distributed by various different names of Grey Wolves labels. Also when The Apostles quit, there was formed Academy 23, that did split tape with Konstruktivists and had comp tracks on Sounds of Hate 5, Stinky Horse Fuckers, Power To Destroy etc... but also did all sorts of experimental punk type of things... there is quite curious history here:
http://www.unit-united.co.uk/theapostles.htm
QuoteFor the uninitiated, the 1980s constituted a decade of immense social change. Margaret Thatcher became the most popular prime minister since Winston Churchill. The terrible stranglehold by which Marxist led unions had held the nation to ransom was finally broken by her bold, unequivocal style of government. However, her complete failure to comprehend foreign policy caused furore, belligerence and isolation from Europe. Her failure to understand social deprivation ultimately led to riots in the streets of every major British city.
...It is not that often when punk bands refer politics of Thatcher as "bold and unequivocal", hah!
GW were a right-wing project, or at least an agitprop project, so they put Thatcher in to wind up the left. She was seen as being an anti-society figure, GW were anti-society. Clearly they didn't agree with her completely, I don't remember them being being capitalists for example. But they probably saw anti-Thatcher sentiment all around them in the art underground, so they did it as a counter-revolution, a rebellion against the rebellion. Just watch the '80s sitcom The Young Ones, and you'll see it was so common for leftist students to be anti-Thatcher that it was already being parodied.
Does anyone have any of the Grey Wolves comuniques / newsletters?
Hmmm. Never really thought of them as 'right-wing'. Certainly 'agitprop' and 'anti-society', but their cultural cues were from all over the place. Weren't the original Grey Wolves a Turkish irredentist movement? They also used a lot of IRA imagery, as well as some white nationalist stuff. You know, these themes don't really mix in any coherent way. I'd heard they were anarchists, but I don't really buy that either. I'd say more just irritants to civilisation as it existed in their day!
Anyway, does anyone here have the "Victory Through Violence" LP on Rodden Island Records? What's it like?
Quote from: burdizzo1 on January 10, 2023, 11:23:53 AM
Hmmm. Never really thought of them as 'right-wing'. Certainly 'agitprop' and 'anti-society', but their cultural cues were from all over the place. Weren't the original Grey Wolves a Turkish irredentist movement? They also used a lot of IRA imagery, as well as some white nationalist stuff. You know, these themes don't really mix in any coherent way. I'd heard they were anarchists, but I don't really buy that either. I'd say more just irritants to civilisation as it existed in their day!
Anyway, does anyone here have the "Victory Through Violence" LP on Rodden Island Records? What's it like?
That's how I always saw them too. Provocateurs rather than a band with a clear cut ideological programme. I Have that LP. The sound is pretty okay and it has some good tracks. The packaging feels a little cheap though. Worth getting if you're a fan and the price isn't too steep.
wasn't Crass an influence?
They were called The Grey Wolves and not the Black and/or White Wolves for a reason.
A right wing, Thatcher loving, project is it? Guaranteed entertainment, this place!
whole project was based around trolling people. back then it was something different I guess, but seems a bit hollow now.
I do like everything I've heard, even Exit Strategy.
Quote from: eraciator on January 11, 2023, 09:52:10 AM
They were called The Grey Wolves and not the Black and/or White Wolves for a reason.
A right wing, Thatcher loving, project is it? Guaranteed entertainment, this place!
The Grey Wolves were an ultranationalist paramilitary. It wasn't some comment about being centrist.
After meeting Dave (he pulled up to the God Is War show in Manchester) its very obvious that the group was never right wing fucking anything. And Dave supporting a Tory? Hahahahahahahahaha.
Got flowers from two of Manchesters finest now, lets keep it coming.
Quote from: Coiled on May 20, 2023, 03:00:03 PM
Quote from: eraciator on January 11, 2023, 09:52:10 AM
They were called The Grey Wolves and not the Black and/or White Wolves for a reason.
A right wing, Thatcher loving, project is it? Guaranteed entertainment, this place!
The Grey Wolves were an ultranationalist paramilitary. It wasn't some comment about being centrist.
Please mention that it is a Turkish ultranationalist paramilitary Organzisation.
Quote from: Goat93 on May 22, 2023, 07:49:24 PM
Quote from: Coiled on May 20, 2023, 03:00:03 PM
Quote from: eraciator on January 11, 2023, 09:52:10 AM
They were called The Grey Wolves and not the Black and/or White Wolves for a reason.
A right wing, Thatcher loving, project is it? Guaranteed entertainment, this place!
The Grey Wolves were an ultranationalist paramilitary. It wasn't some comment about being centrist.
Please mention that it is a Turkish ultranationalist paramilitary Organzisation.
Yea, I was never sure if The Grey Wolves the band actually derived their name from The Grey Wolves the Turkish paramilitary organisation or not. It's not an issue if they did or not, I've always just been curious about that. There's probably an interview somewhere that explains it.
Quote from: Coiled on January 09, 2023, 03:39:39 PM
GW were a right-wing project,
nope they were not
name was linked to some sub-branch of TOPY, they stated this several times since day one. strategy is classic use power to criticize power (and piss off everyone)
They used shock tactics like many others in a very vehement and tasty way, but their background was into Crass and TOPY not Turkish nationalism. Even if it would have been a huge provocation, same as con-dom.
I highly suggest to get the open wound magazines were they explain some tactics and suggest actions.
The cultural terrorist manifesto as well as the DPI manifesto give some hints.
There was a - partly wrong - analysis of them and others published by lefties "the unacceptable face of freedom" that I suggest to write. It doesn't clarify but is a classic attempt interpret something the left wing author doesn't fully get.
this is the article I mentioned: http://media.hyperreal.org/zines/est/articles/freedom.html
this article fails in the interpretation of the tactics, but states also some interesting things.
and this is a nice interview to the gentlemen appeared on Descent magazine.
http://thule.primordial.org.ua/pontifex/wolves.htm
Two very interesting reads. Can you elaborate on how the lefty guy got industrial imagery and tactics wrong? Not disagreeing with you, just think there's an interesting conversation there.
I, for one, think there's some interesting perspectives in this information war thing, especially today where pretty much all information and misinformation is out there on equal terms and can be hard to distinguish from oneanother. I think Grey Wolves downplay their own role as information gatherers and curators when they say that they simply put information out there for anyone to make up their own mind. The information they collected is not neutral. It's gathered, put together, cut up, re-assembled into a coherent artistic vision that is absolutely personal even if it's not politically or ideologically opinionated in a particular direction (I think cynicism is an ideological standpoint too, so maybe their political agenda is just brutish and incoherent, but not absent?). This whole line of thought makes me think of motives, especially given the lefty essay, but also in the light of the Agonal Lust interview on WCN the other day - is simply digging into the dark side of reality or the imagination because that's what makes you tick dangerous? Well maybe, but isn't that also the point? I doubt there's many industrialists who aim to please those with "normie" interests or a political agenda to ensure everyones' safety, prosperity and wellbeing. Maybe we (some of us) actually aim to hurt? Just some thoughts...
I don't remember where iread it, but it nailed it:
"It is not about what it is, its about what others want it to be"
Quote from: Phenol on May 25, 2023, 11:19:15 AM
Two very interesting reads. Can you elaborate on how the lefty guy got industrial imagery and tactics wrong? Not disagreeing with you, just think there's an interesting conversation there.
Not question directed to me, but as its public forum, I may say that perhaps, what he "got wrong" is sort of firm political stand. To give example. Not long ago, for the usual reasons, there was Finnish language discussion going on under title of "fascism & noise scene". Despite title could suggest opportunity to observe how does fascism appear in noise scene, what are the vast ideological differences, aesthetics, reasons, motivations with both: artists flirting with fascism and artists who might be legitimate fascists of some sort. It could allow to observe historical significance, or lack of it. And many many more ways to approach the topic. However, if you got certain types of people talking, the only way that it is being talked is (and.. can be?)
who are the fascist, and how we could throw them out of our noise community.This formerly linked article is certainly way way way more advanced observation. Regardless of that, author is so firmly rooted in his political standpoint, that he is unable to accept artists approach. Nor he appears to have interest in detail beyond level of how it enable to make these political conclusions.
Lets say, namedropping AWB label is curious in this article. Some may remember their infamous full page advertisement in rather big circulation industrial magazine, with "To suit variety of tastes, AWB recording artists are RACISTS, OCCULTISTS & SADISTS. Under the caps-on words you'll find Terre Blanche (racists), Sigillum S (occultists) and Intrinsic Action (sadists) 7"s being promoted. Advertisement appears like the exploitation paper back of mens adventure stories.
Of course we can simply conclude that fuck these racists or racism normalizers. For me, more interesting could be to dig deeper, regardless can clear answers be found at all. You could wonder why TB had zero antisemitic qualities, while that being quite dominating quality in USA racial industrial? Heated rants of personal experienced in old interview or such could be curious reading. Wonder what is the differences of Control Resistance, Brehren, assorted Warcom projects, Blood Axis, NON or whatever.
I'd reduce just into couple points:
-From perspective of industrial culture, like clearly expressed by both artists and author of that linked text, one of major points is to enable people think without (or at least will less) conditioned responses. Author of text argues that such notion fails to acknowledge perhaps legitimate causes that conditioned the reaction. Arguing that guy who has NF carved to his door with knife and burning rags inserted into mailbox he got reason for conditioned response against nazis and doesn't need to analyse mild differences. Sure. Would be curious to ask if his logic is valid also when someone had same experience with bunch of... lets just say bad experiences with
other type of people?
-From perspective of industrial culture, it feels strange if kind of moralist standpoint or clarity is demanded. Author may be firmly political, who hopes things making sense and to have clear direction according to consensus of time and place where he was writing this. Fine, but thinking that such qualities must be agreed by the others as well is the odd part. Industrial culture may enable one to look into even personally difficult things from new perspectives. It may also be subversive in ways that really creeps out people. It also creeps out, because they got real concern what is people don't "get it" in a way he does. What if people aren't liberal or leaning to values you personally feel are right?
One hot topic may be question of violence. Like Grey Wolves mentions in letter published in the article, violence is true revolutionary act. Well, not on those exact words, but instead of ambiguity, pretty clearly declaring violence as a legitimate weapon of change. One of most crucial elements of sovereign state, is that violence is state monopoly. It is the core quality of society or existing state, that rights to use violence is monopoly of state authority. Insisting or glorifying pacifism of person (or art) in my eyes is odd. What is someone can understand specific artists work endorsement of violence? What type of violence? How and what to think of violence - perhaps one can ponder while listening some good album of The Grey Wolves? It may be different emotion, that to do it while listening Taint.
Quote from: tiny_tove on May 24, 2023, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: Coiled on January 09, 2023, 03:39:39 PM
GW were a right-wing project,
nope they were not
I would say they were a Benson & Hedges and a pint(s) at the pub project.
Anyone as original grey wolves fanzines?
That could show /post pics or scans
Thank you !
I bought some years and years ago off ebay- If I can find them I'll try to do some scans
A taster here:
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=11456.0
current cultural atmosphere does not allow groups such as grey wolves to operate in the murky grey area that was so fertile for artists in the 80s and 90s. if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc. seems to be the mantra of the younger generation, even tho it's wholly ridiculous when applied to art.
Quote from: host body on May 29, 2023, 10:43:06 AM
current cultural atmosphere does not allow groups such as grey wolves to operate in the murky grey area that was so fertile for artists in the 80s and 90s. if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc. seems to be the mantra of the younger generation, even tho it's wholly ridiculous when applied to art.
i don't think that the cultural atmosphere changed, only the possibilities changed. shitstorms are more direct with social media, also thanks to the lesser concentration rate on one topic, they are really short before forgotten. there are enough grey areas and people, who use this for their own agenda.
Thanks to FA for a thoughtful reply. I think the question of being comfortable with violence is particularly on point. To truly operate outside the given framework of society you would have to reject any given notion of what is legitimate or acceptable in the first place. Not automatically rejecting non state approved violence as a legitimate measure is one such way to give society and its rules the middle finger. The leftist author, although much more sophisticated than the usual cretins, doesn't seem to fully get that there are people out there who really don't abide to any of his worldviews and who actually reject everything, including politics, in their art and lives.
Maybe (and I underline maybe) his tools for conflict are limited to keyboard and books and pressuring autorities to do stuff for him, maybe the same authorities he claims to be against.
Quote from: tiny_tove on May 30, 2023, 04:16:56 PM
Maybe (and I underline maybe) his tools for conflict are limited to keyboard and books and pressuring autorities to do stuff for him, maybe the same authorities he claims to be against.
Indeed, but don't we all do this? We may hate the authorities, but we rely on them/it when we get sick or need a salary...inner life and social life (life in society) are not the same, though, and rebellion can also be done from within.
Quote from: Phenol on May 30, 2023, 01:42:18 PM
.... who really don't abide to any of his worldviews and who actually reject everything, including politics, in their art and lives.
In case of GW, it isn't necessary about rejection, than re-evaluation? You got the child like anarchist who cling on ideas like absolute non-hierarchy. Even to the point of enforcing system against it. As example, certain Finnish organization had system of changing personnel of the group, one from another, in hopes of avoiding one person becoming
leader after some time. Creating system that destroys emerging natural hierarchy based on peoples personality and habits. As soon as it seems there is no longer absolute equality, but someone actually is in charge, so to say, then mix the groups to "unhealthy" hierarchies won't form. Not sure how well that succeeded in long run, especially when it is likely nothing long lasting came from those organizations...
Instead of absolute rejection, I could imagine, that Grey Wolves is indeed for re-evaluation. Even from point of view leaning towards anarchism, there is very easy practical definition for the word. Evaluation and test of hierarchies. Anything that is relic of past, founded on false principles, based on oppression rather than any... lets use word natural reason, even if it ain't very accurate here. It can be re-evaluated, crushed and improved. It is almost like Nietzschean method to philosophize with hammer. Some things are hollow, obsolete, fragile... other things not. If hierarchy and power structure survives the hammering, it may be there for reason. As example given by one of the most well known anarchist spokeperson, adult preventing kid from walking against red light, that is already moment of authority and power. In case, you prevented kid from being hit by a car, it was totally legitimate act. Not malicious oppression. Many times, one legitimate act will have entire culture build over it, eventually being structure that doesn't really survive even brief re-evaluation.
In case of GW or artists working under such principles, where you face difficult questions, that are also interesting. See other topic, collage art on art section of this forum, Lehrer commenting about sort of crypto transgression. Despite artists like GW would be kind of brutally outrageous in their visuals, it feels to me, it is indeed meant for re-thinking something. And more precisely, not something specific, but exactly the stimulation to do it also when there is not images of violence and visible oppression triggering it.
If feel this is not
rejecting, but quite opposite. Anti-passivity, actively taking part of world instead of accepting it as
given.
I recall Ulex Xane referring to the Grey Wolves as anarchists, but unaligned to any particular sub-strain of anarchism. Like all other ideologies, there are always sub "-isms" that tend to compete with each other for legitimacy, but the Wolves rejected all that and seemed to adopt the term "anarchism" as more a cultural expression of ideas, rather than distinct political ideology.
I imagine their politics were very much time-and-place, coming out of working class England in the 1980's and '90's. Political and other cultural ideas were unavoidable in that background, and the Grey Wolves seem to pretty much filter everything they were exposed to through their own Industrial culture filter.
They were never didactic, in that they explicitly expressed any particular line, but their propaganda and lyrics are full of a lot of conviction. "We have been accused of being a sinister, all pervasive influence. We are doing our best to be just that!". Expressions of power through being below the norm, below control. The "Cultural Terrorist Manifesto" might probably be the closest written word thing, outside of interviews, where they state their intentions, and even that leaves plenty of wiggle-room for your own ideas.
If anything, their anarchism was reflected in that kind of "we are everywhere" mentality that was the image of people like the Angry Brigade, who bombed a few places in England in the 1970's, and who's manifestos had stuff like "we could be the person sitting next to you in the bus", which had a lot of influence on anarchists over the years. I believe also the Grey Wolves were involved in the mail art scene (which tape trading and so on could be said to be a part of), which also reflected that kind of cultural egalitarianism. They were open to contact with anyone during the time they were the most active.
These are more personal observations, of course. I never met or knew those chaps so I'm second guessing as much as most anyone else.
Quote from: tiny_tove on May 24, 2023, 12:49:09 PMQuote from: Coiled on January 09, 2023, 03:39:39 PMGW were a right-wing project,
nope they were not
name was linked to some sub-branch of TOPY, they stated this several times since day one. strategy is classic use power to criticize power (and piss off everyone)
They used shock tactics like many others in a very vehement and tasty way, but their background was into Crass and TOPY not Turkish nationalism. Even if it would have been a huge provocation, same as con-dom.
I highly suggest to get the open wound magazines were they explain some tactics and suggest actions.
The cultural terrorist manifesto as well as the DPI manifesto give some hints.
There was a - partly wrong - analysis of them and others published by lefties "the unacceptable face of freedom" that I suggest to write. It doesn't clarify but is a classic attempt interpret something the left wing author doesn't fully get.
I think one of the most and more interesting aspects of the Grey Wolves is the question of is their work ment to be slated right or left? I think it can be interpreted differently upon different listeners, despite the groups "real motives, or intentions". I think that is what makes these perticular projects interesting, they kind of flirt with provocative natured themes and images, while in the nucleus of ambiguity, but it still boils down to the listener and their interpretation perhaps.
Have Trev or Padbury ever commented on the Rock-O-Rama synthpop band The Final Sound, who were originally also called The Grey Wolves? Any link or just pure coincidence?
I've never seen a comment from either of them, but I think the Final Sound's Grey Wolves would pre-date 'our' Grey Wolves by a few years. I wouldn't see The Grey Wolves as being 'nationalist' in the way Final Sound was. Yeah, so just a coincidence, sadly!
Quote from: Cranial Blast on November 21, 2023, 06:51:51 AMI think one of the most and more interesting aspects of the Grey Wolves is the question of is their work ment to be slated right or left? I think it can be interpreted differently upon different listeners, despite the groups "real motives, or intentions". I think that is what makes these perticular projects interesting, they kind of flirt with provocative natured themes and images, while in the nucleus of ambiguity, but it still boils down to the listener and their interpretation perhaps.
Yeah and that is one of the characteristics which make Grey Wolves's aesthetic, and industrial music overall, intriguing.