If this is a thread that I didn't find in my searches, forgive the redundancy.
I don't have the best of memory, but I'd love to find tape work from (most likely) the 80s or before. If there are some things that have happened since then, my ears are open. Recently, I've been listening to Kurt Volentine AKA Ian Andrews, there are links at his site and on youtube etc. And just in general, if there are more things to chew on in the vein of early Severed Heads, please feel free to hip me to it.
I realize that this could fall into Xenakis territory as well as Ilhan Mimaroglu and etc, but mainly I'm interested in people working with tape and tape loops outside of the context of some maybe more obvious artists who incorporate the method, but aren't necessarily strict tape manipulators, such as Sewer Election or Dog Lady, etc. and maybe more obviously so than say Delia Derbyshire, who is more known for electronic processing than tape work, I guess.
I love the grainy sound of 80s home recordings, but I'll listen to anything in this vein. Sterile Garden does some great work here, as well as a friend of mine who goes under "Ilth Zongz", and this one of multiple layers of tape loop "hypnosis" has been a regular for me since it came out: https://lightenupsounds.bandcamp.com/album/hibernation
I assume your already listening to Dilloway, but figured I'd throw it out there to anyone that may be visiting the forum who is unfamiliar...his album Concealed is a masterpiece.
This album https://www.discogs.com/BP-Kerstmis-1980/release/5543741 released as part of the archival reissue series from UE is excellent, I'm not sure if it's tape or lock grooves, or a mix of both...an excellent listen (maybe a little to "fun" for some of the taste of the forum) but it has some very hypnotic carnival esque feel that makes for a haunting late night listen.
The other person I immediately think of when I think of loops is Joseph Hammer, his album Roadside Travel releases by Art Into Life is stunningly beautiful and will really transport the listener. A lot of his stuff seems to be utilizing AM radio music, and I think his album "I love you, please love me too" released by Pan-Act May be using Fela Kutti samples (but I'm not positive), that's a much woozier album and again may not be of interest to everyone. His stuff with Joe Potts unearth the name Joe & Joe is like recycled reality stacked and amplified (especially the recent CD on Helicopter that Wiese released), it's pure existential terror in the best way possible, not a gentle listen (think DENSE like Romero but less monolithic).
I'd also suggest checking out Darksmith and Hsnds To if you haven't already, they both manipulate tape at times...for Darksmith "Countdown to Man in the Clouds" is the most obvious use of it at the top of my head. And as for Hands To https://noticerecordings.bandcamp.com/album/scrine-1988 though I really love anything from either of these artist.
Blood Stereo (Dylan Nyoukis and Karen Constance) who runs chocolate monk may also be worth exploring. They often have a tape version and live version on their CD-Rs and they also release a lot of tape based music on their label.
Hope that's a decent start.
Altar of Flies strongly incorporates reel-to-reel manipulation and "classic" musique concrete techniques into Swedish noise/death industrial contexts. A bunch of his tapes and damn near anything released on vinyl or CD is essential, especially "Female" (LP), "Let New Life Rise in the Face of Death" (CD), "The Violent Blow" (LP), "Rabbit Hole" (LP), "Rörelsen Mellan Rummen" (LP), and "Auditory Hallucinations" (cs).
An older project with a rotating cast, Peach of Immortality featured Tom Smith (of To Live and Shave in LA and a million others) doing primarily live tape-manipulation work in the context of very aggressive and abrasive free improv material (other instruments included tabletop guitar and cello). On "Talking Heads '77," Tom batters some old tapes of backwoods preachers with some very aggressive reel/cassette moves. The 9CD set (!) on Karl Schmidt Verlag is a frighteningly comprehensive and exhaustive document, and you can check it out on Bandcamp. https://tomsmithksv.bandcamp.com/album/ksv-424-acr-x001-surrealismus-paris-prag-rockville-9xcd
This 1960 album is some serious, hard-gnarly tape music, very proto-Schimpfuch. Used to be rare as hell, and Creel Pone booted it a while back, but it looks like a legit (?) reissue finally happened in 2018: https://www.discogs.com/Anestis-Logothetis-H%C3%B6r-spiel-Nekrologlog-1961-Fantasmata-1960/release/12969805
didn't Eric Lunde do some fripper-tronics style releases? seem to remember him mentioning in interviews.
Quote from: Harvest on January 06, 2020, 08:01:50 PM
didn't Eric Lunde do some fripper-tronics style releases? seem to remember him mentioning in interviews.
I'm not totally sure what you mean by fripper-tronics in the context of what I've heard of his work. But Lunde definitely incorporates tape heavily in his early releases, but I think his interest is more Burroughsian than anything else. I've read interviews where he talks about how the recording medium imprints specific data into recordings.
Peach of Immortality and Tom Smith are absolutely essential recommendations as is Schimpluf and Altar of Flies!
The Swedish comp Introverted Formula is also excellent!
Quote from: Johann on January 06, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
Quote from: Harvest on January 06, 2020, 08:01:50 PM
didn't Eric Lunde do some fripper-tronics style releases? seem to remember him mentioning in interviews.
I'm not totally sure what you mean by fripper-tronics in the context of what I've heard of his work. But Lunde definitely incorporates tape heavily in his early releases, but I think his interest is more Burroughsian than anything else. I've read interviews where he talks about how the recording medium imprints specific data into recordings.
the idea was to put a tape loop through 2 machines that one is recording to the other while the loop degrades and changes. the erase head is removed as well so it layers and changes. a set it and forget it kind of idea. the machine plays itself.
sorry for over simplification but i believe its discussed in SI #1?
EDIT:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frippertronics
Anne Gillis?
Quote from: Johann on January 06, 2020, 05:13:30 PM
I assume your already listening to Dilloway, but figured I'd throw it out there to anyone that may be visiting the forum who is unfamiliar...his album Concealed is a masterpiece.
This album https://www.discogs.com/BP-Kerstmis-1980/release/5543741 released as part of the archival reissue series from UE is excellent, I'm not sure if it's tape or lock grooves, or a mix of both...an excellent listen (maybe a little to "fun" for some of the taste of the forum) but it has some very hypnotic carnival esque feel that makes for a haunting late night listen.
The other person I immediately think of when I think of loops is Joseph Hammer, his album Roadside Travel releases by Art Into Life is stunningly beautiful and will really transport the listener. A lot of his stuff seems to be utilizing AM radio music, and I think his album "I love you, please love me too" released by Pan-Act May be using Fela Kutti samples (but I'm not positive), that's a much woozier album and again may not be of interest to everyone. His stuff with Joe Potts unearth the name Joe & Joe is like recycled reality stacked and amplified (especially the recent CD on Helicopter that Wiese released), it's pure existential terror in the best way possible, not a gentle listen (think DENSE like Romero but less monolithic).
I'd also suggest checking out Darksmith and Hsnds To if you haven't already, they both manipulate tape at times...for Darksmith "Countdown to Man in the Clouds" is the most obvious use of it at the top of my head. And as for Hands To https://noticerecordings.bandcamp.com/album/scrine-1988 though I really love anything from either of these artist.
Blood Stereo (Dylan Nyoukis and Karen Constance) who runs chocolate monk may also be worth exploring. They often have a tape version and live version on their CD-Rs and they also release a lot of tape based music on their label.
Hope that's a decent start.
I'm familiar with basically everything mentioned except for that "Kerstmis" release, need to check that out! I didn't know J. Hammer did tape work. I saw a set of his with Crumer, and come to think of it, I might recall a reel or two in there. That set definitely is in my top 5 best ever, for the record. I always thought he was an analog hardware guy, not a tape guy, but only by ear am I guessing this. Points of Friction is one of my favorite projects. That said, I've never heard the "Joe & Joe" project. Thanks!
Quote from: CMSFoundation on January 06, 2020, 07:09:40 PM
Altar of Flies strongly incorporates reel-to-reel manipulation and "classic" musique concrete techniques into Swedish noise/death industrial contexts. A bunch of his tapes and damn near anything released on vinyl or CD is essential, especially "Female" (LP), "Let New Life Rise in the Face of Death" (CD), "The Violent Blow" (LP), "Rabbit Hole" (LP), "Rörelsen Mellan Rummen" (LP), and "Auditory Hallucinations" (cs).
An older project with a rotating cast, Peach of Immortality featured Tom Smith (of To Live and Shave in LA and a million others) doing primarily live tape-manipulation work in the context of very aggressive and abrasive free improv material (other instruments included tabletop guitar and cello). On "Talking Heads '77," Tom batters some old tapes of backwoods preachers with some very aggressive reel/cassette moves. The 9CD set (!) on Karl Schmidt Verlag is a frighteningly comprehensive and exhaustive document, and you can check it out on Bandcamp. https://tomsmithksv.bandcamp.com/album/ksv-424-acr-x001-surrealismus-paris-prag-rockville-9xcd
This 1960 album is some serious, hard-gnarly tape music, very proto-Schimpfuch. Used to be rare as hell, and Creel Pone booted it a while back, but it looks like a legit (?) reissue finally happened in 2018: https://www.discogs.com/Anestis-Logothetis-H%C3%B6r-spiel-Nekrologlog-1961-Fantasmata-1960/release/12969805
I need more Altar of Flies! I didn't know that tape was so prominent. Sometimes when I listen, I hear what I think might be modular synthesis of source material, but maybe more people use tape than I thought. Great suggestions! I'm going to listen to that Greek guy now!
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on January 07, 2020, 02:59:19 AM
Anne Gillis?
Looks promising, will look into it!
EDIT: As for Lunde, I got to spend time with some of his early tapes at WZRD, and I'd love to hear more. I'd love to hear definitive work by this artist that stands apart from conceptual work. Granted, his grainy field recordings are great, but as with John Duncan, the conceptual work makes me respect the artist more, but the actual execution of thrillingly structured sounds is what makes me return to the audio. People who did "Frippertronics" outside of Fripp & Eno would be of interest, although I do know the basics, such as "I Am Sitting In A Room" and so forth...
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on January 06, 2020, 02:33:35 PM
If this is a thread that I didn't find in my searches, forgive the redundancy.
I don't have the best of memory, but I'd love to find tape work from (most likely) the 80s or before. If there are some things that have happened since then, my ears are open. Recently, I've been listening to Kurt Volentine AKA Ian Andrews, there are links at his site and on youtube etc. And just in general, if there are more things to chew on in the vein of early Severed Heads, please feel free to hip me to it.
I realize that this could fall into Xenakis territory as well as Ilhan Mimaroglu and etc, but mainly I'm interested in people working with tape and tape loops outside of the context of some maybe more obvious artists who incorporate the method, but aren't necessarily strict tape manipulators, such as Sewer Election or Dog Lady, etc. and maybe more obviously so than say Delia Derbyshire, who is more known for electronic processing than tape work, I guess.
I love the grainy sound of 80s home recordings, but I'll listen to anything in this vein. Sterile Garden does some great work here, as well as a friend of mine who goes under "Ilth Zongz", and this one of multiple layers of tape loop "hypnosis" has been a regular for me since it came out: https://lightenupsounds.bandcamp.com/album/hibernation
Eye have some of "Infamous" tape manipulation 1/4" masters from my old mentor circa 1963-1980s...
Chicago Underground Experimental Scene...
Eye learned/practiced oldschool tape splicing&manipulation methods from him over the years...
He bestowed upon me his gear & boxes of tape.
Let me dig into the archives plus attempt record some more tapes on ye olde Teak Reel to Reel.
Play tag sometime here or over at NW...
We have met before...
Eye Personally have long history/obsession with tape manipulation techniques.
BTW you may want researching the Phonogene & Morphagene for personal "tapeless" usage. (ask AO about it)
Wiedersehen
WW
http://www.radio-on-berlin.com/?p=8666&
Some of Dai Coelacanth's shows are played on Radio-ON Berlin. Spliced tape manipulation of spoken word, field recordings , overdubs and sound collage. Mostly vocals but old radio sounds, noise, etc all in there.
That Creep of Paris cdr on Choco Monk is some ripe tape loops/manipulation.
This is a really hard question to answer seeing as 95% of any experimental or noise artists you might happen to come across are likely to use tape in some form. After a certain point this kind of sound and technique, while perhaps noticeable, is just a component of the artist's overall method rather than a primary focus. I'd say this was the case for a lot of artists mentioned so far, even if a lot of what they do includes tape to a wide extent. This is before getting into the territory of albums recorded by artists at a time when no other options besides hacking tape up were available. Those old Schimpfluch etc records are tape cuts a go go. But to consider them 'tape artists'?
If you're talking about a more committed use of that medium then there are a lot of people who could be named, but maybe this stuff falls more into the camp of the more obvious artists/uses that you are trying to avoid? I don't know.
Anyway, here is a list with some repeats of prior mentions:
Posset (almost always based on some kind of cassette or dictaphone work out, plenty of transport button action)
Jason Zeh (maybe not so much a 'manipulator' all the time but definitely a nailed on and outwardly declared 'tape artist')
Jerome Noetinger (reel to reel master)
Valerio Tricoli (same)
Shredded Nerve (all that early stuff is pure decaying tape loop scum)
Aaron Dilloway (probably the most fitting? what can you say)
Joseph Hammer (bring him up again because his work is definitely and explicitly centered on the constant use of long tape loops)
Aki Onda (walkman virtuoso)
Cody Brandt (anything this guy does tends to be pretty heavy in tape editing and fuckery)
Evil Moisture (combined with a lot of home made electronics of course, but always that mangle tape sound in the mix)
Quote from: Duncan on January 07, 2020, 07:22:23 PM
This is a really hard question to answer seeing as 95% of any experimental or noise artists you might happen to come across are likely to use tape in some form. After a certain point this kind of sound and technique, while perhaps noticeable, is just a component of the artist's overall method rather than a primary focus. I'd say this was the case for a lot of artists mentioned so far, even if a lot of what they do includes tape to a wide extent. This is before getting into the territory of albums recorded by artists at a time when no other options besides hacking tape up were available. Those old Schimpfluch etc records are tape cuts a go go. But to consider them 'tape artists'?
If you're talking about a more committed use of that medium then there are a lot of people who could be named, but maybe this stuff falls more into the camp of the more obvious artists/uses that you are trying to avoid? I don't know.
Anyway, here is a list with some repeats of prior mentions:
Posset (almost always based on some kind of cassette or dictaphone work out, plenty of transport button action)
Jason Zeh (maybe not so much a 'manipulator' all the time but definitely a nailed on and outwardly declared 'tape artist')
Jerome Noetinger (reel to reel master)
Valerio Tricoli (same)
Shredded Nerve (all that early stuff is pure decaying tape loop scum)
Aaron Dilloway (probably the most fitting? what can you say)
Joseph Hammer (bring him up again because his work is definitely and explicitly centered on the constant use of long tape loops)
Aki Onda (walkman virtuoso)
Cody Brandt (anything this guy does tends to be pretty heavy in tape editing and fuckery)
Evil Moisture (combined with a lot of home made electronics of course, but always that mangle tape sound in the mix)
that Anestis Logothetis release was great by the way, CMS!
If 95% of the noise world were preoccupied with tape, it is news to me.
You're mentioning some artists I don't know about and of course many I do, but while I was certain someone would respond this way, I still think it's pretty easy to tell what I'm looking for. "Pure Decaying Loop Scum" would be nice, and to me, just because someone recorded to tape doesn't mean that they're focused on tape manipulation. For instance, "Disintegration Loops" by Basinski is definitely up there, although he's not strictly dedicated to tape as a medium. I've heard a number of people use tape warble and whatnot, but I'm looking for the results of a sort of dedicated craft of cutting and splicing tape, with specific emphasis on tape as a medium for creating audio. I think it's a distinctive sound. For example, Orchid Spangiaphora is a sound collage artist, but it's clear through listening that he is manipulating tape, and if there is a release of his that is more emphatic on that tape sound, I'd like to know, rather than digging up every single sound collage artist that ever existed prior to 1990 or whatever. Thank you, though, I'll be checking this stuff out as much as I can over the coming weeks.
Listening to this now, by the way. Enjoying it so far. Joe & Joe was pretty good too...
(https://img.discogs.com/nM5jN6AtFxYijuTfk9P8kVsoiVk=/fit-in/500x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3665711-1339493073-8197.jpeg.jpg)
Have you heard the trilogy of P16.D4 - Distruct, Mixed Band Philanthropist - The Impossible Humane, and Nurse With Wound - The Sylvie And Babs Hi-Fi Companion? Also maybe Bladder Flask - One Day I Was So Sad That The Corners Of My Mouth Met & Everybody Thought I Was Whistling.
My reply reads way more facetiously than intended. It was more thinking out loud (or on a computer) about the topic as I'd spent a lot of the day pondering it on and off. It was a tougher question to answer than I first thought it would be which makes it a question well worth asking.
When I talk about '95% of artists using tape' that's obviously quite hyperbolic and not something that could be accurately measured. I just see it a lot personally in the music I listen to and happen to see live.
But I do think that prolific use of tape can fall into a number of camps: focussing on the possibilities of the machines or simply the sound quality of the tape or even just the portability of the format as much as the manipulatable aspects of the material i.e. cutting, splicing and physically moving it around the heads. Things get further muddied when you consider whether an artist commits specifically to any of these methods or it's just a part of what they do. But I enjoy working out the differences and crossover.
What you are talking about is definitely a recognisable and identifiable sound though and I may back and add some more suggestions as they come to me. Lots of Chocolate Monk releases - especially of the last few years - have this kind of thing in spades and sound great. Highly recommend checking out any of Bob Delsaulniers projects on that note. So good.
Glad Noetinger is working for you. I haven't heard this one but saw him perform live recently with a Revox and a couple of loops. Utterly insane. Using the thing as a sound making device far beyond anything i'd ever seen before. Got something like a 5 minute standing ovation! One of the best performances of experimental music I've ever seen.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on January 08, 2020, 08:13:17 PM
Have you heard the trilogy of P16.D4 - Distruct, Mixed Band Philanthropist - The Impossible Humane, and Nurse With Wound - The Sylvie And Babs Hi-Fi Companion? Also maybe Bladder Flask - One Day I Was So Sad That The Corners Of My Mouth Met & Everybody Thought I Was Whistling.
Good suggestions! I haven't heard Bladder Flask at all, and MBP is still something I could use to be more familiar with.
Quote from: Duncan on January 09, 2020, 01:13:03 AM
My reply reads way more facetiously than intended. It was more thinking out loud (or on a computer) about the topic as I'd spent a lot of the day pondering it on and off. It was a tougher question to answer than I first thought it would be which makes it a question well worth asking.
When I talk about '95% of artists using tape' that's obviously quite hyperbolic and not something that could be accurately measured. I just see it a lot personally in the music I listen to and happen to see live.
But I do think that prolific use of tape can fall into a number of camps: focussing on the possibilities of the machines or simply the sound quality of the tape or even just the portability of the format as much as the manipulatable aspects of the material i.e. cutting, splicing and physically moving it around the heads. Things get further muddied when you consider whether an artist commits specifically to any of these methods or it's just a part of what they do. But I enjoy working out the differences and crossover.
What you are talking about is definitely a recognisable and identifiable sound though and I may back and add some more suggestions as they come to me. Lots of Chocolate Monk releases - especially of the last few years - have this kind of thing in spades and sound great. Highly recommend checking out any of Bob Delsaulniers projects on that note. So good.
Glad Noetinger is working for you. I haven't heard this one but saw him perform live recently with a Revox and a couple of loops. Utterly insane. Using the thing as a sound making device far beyond anything i'd ever seen before. Got something like a 5 minute standing ovation! One of the best performances of experimental music I've ever seen.
I understand the difficulty in drawing the line, and I appreciate you listing these things. When I posted, I initially was looking mostly for that good 'ol tape loop grit, but I am generally into the sound of tape manipulation itself, regardless of the audio that is actually on the tape. People like Severed Heads or Kurt Volentine making bizarre music with tape loops is even more appealing, but obviously a little harder to suss out. I'm very much a fan of loops, repetition, and dare I say "rhythm" in noise and experimental music, and I posted partly to hone in on these things. If there is a more experimental Renaldo & The Loaf out there, I'd love to know about it.
On that note, I should add that Nachtluft is great for this, if anyone hasn't heard them. They are not strictly tape manipulation, but I definitely wish they were sometimes. https://www.discogs.com/artist/157642-Nachtluft
So this is obviously not what this board is about musically speaking -- although I know a lot of you absolutely worship Italo Disco -- but I wanted to share a couple of videos I stumbled across recently... you rarely see tape splicing in action like this, and I figured anyone interested in tape manipulation would get a kick out of watching this. Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/M7SinqdoKeQ
https://youtu.be/IBMHvJmPZSk
Quote from: Tommy Carlsson on January 23, 2020, 10:32:34 PM
anyone interested in tape manipulation would get a kick out of watching this.
hot dam!!
man, that anton bruhin clip is insane too
Quote from: theotherjohn on January 24, 2020, 01:39:11 AM
That's crazy clean! We have it so easy these days.
A favourite nutso work of mine utilising the good ol' rapid pause-record-pause method of audio-brut cut ups is Anton Bruhin's InOut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUINCSoWhQ4
This is utterly mental. You can hear Adam Bohman doing a lot of pause button stuff in a similar vein on his albums but nothing so detailed and organised as this.
I saw Bruhin give a talk on his work a couple of years ago and during the Q&A he revealed that he was totally ambivalent about cassette tape as a medium, using it mostly just because it was cheap and available rather than attraction to any special possibilities of the format. He even casually mentioned moving onto Fruity Loops when he got a computer. The fact that he was still making stuff like this with that in mind is astonishing really.
edit - here's a passage of him discussing this piece taken from soundohm, what a hero:
'INOUT was recorded on a Sanyo M7300L stereo radio cassette recorder with both an integrated and external microphone. The recorder is in the recording standby position, both RECORD and PAUSE buttons are pushed. Then I sing or play a tone into the microphone. During this tone, I release the PAUSE button by pushing it. Subsequently, I press the PAUSE button again within a fraction of a second. Now the first short note is recorded. In InOut I added this way thousands of very short notes like a patchwork, like an acoustic quilt with geometric irregularities and varied patterns. The percussive effect was produced by the clicking noise of the PAUSE button. Recorded with the integrated microphone, those clickings appear with pretty high amplitude, depending on the vehemence by which I pushed the button. Recorded with the external microphone, the clicking will not be recorded and remain silent on tape. For InOut I alternated both possibilities; for a longer passage I recorded solely clicking noises to obtain a percussion solo.'
absolutely incredible stuff!!
Mixed Band Philanhtropist 'The Man Who Mistook A Real Woman For His Muse And Acted Accordingly' 7" (Hypnagogia, 2003) is an excellent example of absurdist Musique Concrete / sound collage. Although released in 2003, the majority of the track was recorded in 1983:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxIDol3dJtA
The forthcoming Nurse With Wound Play Bladder Flask CD (United Dairies) should be amazing!
Sorry if someone has mentioned this but Evil Moisture would be a classic tape go to
I made a big long list of suggestions here to listen to at work, and I ended up not getting to much of it. Now I quit my job, and I don't get too much time to listen, but I'll get to it. Some newer things I didn't get to listen to on youtube until now, crazy stuff!
Does anyone know if Henry Flynt did some true tape work? I know there is "Hillbilly Tape Music" but that's not intrinsically tape work to me, it just seems like experimental music recorded on tape for the most part. I like what I've heard of his work, just curious.
Quote from: Soloman Tump on January 07, 2020, 04:12:02 PM
http://www.radio-on-berlin.com/?p=8666&
Some of Dai Coelacanth's shows are played on Radio-ON Berlin. Spliced tape manipulation of spoken word, field recordings , overdubs and sound collage. Mostly vocals but old radio sounds, noise, etc all in there.
cool, thanks!
edit: wtf haha xlent total brainmelter
edit 2: ok took me a while to figure this out, so i been listening to this for the last hour or so and it's this "radio nuda"
http://www.radio-on-berlin.com/?p=10011
but still quite a fuckin rollercoaster!!