I've only started on this journey since April but I currently have a fairly nice set up I'm using to make industrial noise, a few synths, a mixer, some pedals etc.
However I feel like a drum machine is the one thing I am missing currently, I would really like to experiment with one and try imitating the thick and heavy classic 80s style PE drums.
Unfortunately I can't seem to find any videos online of drum machines being used for this kind of music so I have no clue what kind of one I should be looking into. or how pedals can alter the sound to make it how I want?
Any recommendations or advice either for effects to add to a drum machine or a particular drum machine would be great.
a rather old thread, but many suggestions for you.
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=3909.0
That old thread does have a lot of nice suggestions (esp Korg ER1, if you can find one for a reasonable price, it is a goldmine for DI sounds). When it comes to newer machines, the electribe sampler is not very expensive and, in spite of some well known brutal limitations ( that in my view really matter, in the end, only if one wants to play live conventional dance music) it allows you to load up (or directly sample) your own sounds, and you could use it both as a substitute for the ubiquitous SP-XXX sampler a plurality of noisemakers seem to love, and as a proper drum machine. Recently grabbed a Moog DFAM, that seems to be popular with the last generation of Euro heavy electronics (and some older acts, like Wertham iirc). I do not understand it fully yet but it covers, at a minimum, the synthetic Leichenschrei-era SPK sounds, as well as basic distorted bass drum territories.
Which synths and pedals are you working with now, and what's your budget? Will you klock your synths with the drum machine, or the other way around? Will you use midi or cv to do that?
I purchased a second hand Volca Drum, and it is pretty powerful for the price. 16 patterns, 16 different drum kits, 6 instruments at once, you can edit loads while it is playing. Great value for money Nd sounds impressive too.
Also with new 3rd party software you can save / create kits and patterns. Well worth a look if you don't want to break the bank.
Digitakt if you don't need it to be analog. It's the most powerful sampler for the price available and capable of much more than just sequencing drum patterns, but it excels as being a drum machine as well. Only negative is the lack of song mode or ability to program pattern chains. If you really want an analog device, Moog DFAM is a beast.
If you're on a budget, I'd just go with a drumbrute or a similar low cost analog drum machine. Volcas are ok but too limited (for example, only mono output I think?) when considering that you can get a used, proper analog drum machine for just a little bit more.
Volca drum is stereo, you can pan each instrument independently too. Not sure about previous models. It has song mode so you can chain patterns.
An other great feature is that each instrument has the option of changing length of pattern so you can easily create complex polyrhythms.
DFAM is my dream purchase... Maybe one day
I use a Drumbrute, the first model. I like to add a compressor as well as a diy fuzz pedal with a blend on it in the signal path at times.
Quote from: Soloman Tump on July 16, 2020, 06:03:09 PM
Volca drum is stereo, you can pan each instrument independently too. Not sure about previous models. It has song mode so you can chain patterns.
An other great feature is that each instrument has the option of changing length of pattern so you can easily create complex polyrhythms.
right, well that sounds useful then! not a bad piece of gear for around 100 euros used.
FM drum on the Drumbrute impact is great
Quote from: latexcity on July 15, 2020, 08:33:24 PM
I've only started on this journey since April but I currently have a fairly nice set up I'm using to make industrial noise, a few synths, a mixer, some pedals etc.
However I feel like a drum machine is the one thing I am missing currently, I would really like to experiment with one and try imitating the thick and heavy classic 80s style PE drums.
Not to be 'that guy' but given this information I'd venture you're safe using basically anything. I can't think of many classic PE releases with 'thick and heavy' drum sounds, but maybe I am just ignorant.
Quote from: Atrophist on July 16, 2020, 05:00:40 AM
Which synths and pedals are you working with now, and what's your budget? Will you klock your synths with the drum machine, or the other way around? Will you use midi or cv to do that?
I currently have a Korg MS-10, Arturia Microbrute and Doepfer Dark Energy MK1, my budget is probably up to £400. I plan to create a thick industrial drum/beat with the drum machine so I guess I would be clocking the synths to it.
I use exclusively CV for now as I'm yet to experiment with midi, but I plan to buy a midi keyboard for the dark energy further down the line.
Quote from: theworldisawarfilm on July 22, 2020, 09:39:27 PM
Quote from: latexcity on July 15, 2020, 08:33:24 PM
I've only started on this journey since April but I currently have a fairly nice set up I'm using to make industrial noise, a few synths, a mixer, some pedals etc.
However I feel like a drum machine is the one thing I am missing currently, I would really like to experiment with one and try imitating the thick and heavy classic 80s style PE drums.
Not to be 'that guy' but given this information I'd venture you're safe using basically anything. I can't think of many classic PE releases with 'thick and heavy' drum sounds, but maybe I am just ignorant.
Xenophobic ejaculation, Con-Dom, grey Wolves etc. all have this type of drum sound, Certain releases from prurient and puce Mary do too out of newer and less orthodox artists.
When I say thick and heavy I mean a very loud and noticeable beat even if it's had a lot of effects applied to it
Quote from: cosmonaut on July 16, 2020, 12:38:56 AM
That old thread does have a lot of nice suggestions (esp Korg ER1, if you can find one for a reasonable price, it is a goldmine for DI sounds). When it comes to newer machines, the electribe sampler is not very expensive and, in spite of some well known brutal limitations ( that in my view really matter, in the end, only if one wants to play live conventional dance music) it allows you to load up (or directly sample) your own sounds, and you could use it both as a substitute for the ubiquitous SP-XXX sampler a plurality of noisemakers seem to love, and as a proper drum machine. Recently grabbed a Moog DFAM, that seems to be popular with the last generation of Euro heavy electronics (and some older acts, like Wertham iirc). I do not understand it fully yet but it covers, at a minimum, the synthetic Leichenschrei-era SPK sounds, as well as basic distorted bass drum territories.
Just watched some footage of the ER-1 and looks perfect for what I want to do, DFAM looks very nice too but slightly out of my price range sadly.
Does anyone know the difference between MK1 AND MK1 of the ER-1?
Quote from: latexcity on July 22, 2020, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: Atrophist on July 16, 2020, 05:00:40 AM
Which synths and pedals are you working with now, and what's your budget? Will you klock your synths with the drum machine, or the other way around? Will you use midi or cv to do that?
I currently have a Korg MS-10, Arturia Microbrute and Doepfer Dark Energy MK1, my budget is probably up to £400. I plan to create a thick industrial drum/beat with the drum machine so I guess I would be clocking the synths to it.
I use exclusively CV for now as I'm yet to experiment with midi, but I plan to buy a midi keyboard for the dark energy further down the line.
Okay, in that case I would recommend the DFAM (EDIT: ok it seems you've dismissed this option). A bit over your budget but perhaps you can get a good deal on a second hand one? A second hand Digitakt might also be worth considering — different machine but both are really good.
But really — and I'm being "that guy" here too — since you'll drown it in distortion and feedback anyway it ultimately matters little what you use. If you can afford to get an instrument that is genuinely good, then by sll means go for it, but some 80's digital Yamaha that you can pick off ebay for fifty quid, squeezed through pedals, would do just fine as well. In fact you could create some pretty killer PE tracks just with what you already have.
Quote from: Atrophist on July 22, 2020, 09:54:31 PM
Quote from: latexcity on July 22, 2020, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: Atrophist on July 16, 2020, 05:00:40 AM
Which synths and pedals are you working with now, and what's your budget? Will you klock your synths with the drum machine, or the other way around? Will you use midi or cv to do that?
I currently have a Korg MS-10, Arturia Microbrute and Doepfer Dark Energy MK1, my budget is probably up to £400. I plan to create a thick industrial drum/beat with the drum machine so I guess I would be clocking the synths to it.
I use exclusively CV for now as I'm yet to experiment with midi, but I plan to buy a midi keyboard for the dark energy further down the line.
Okay, in that case I would recommend the DFAM (EDIT: ok it seems you've dismissed this option). A bit over your budget but perhaps you can get a good deal on a second hand one? A second hand Digitakt might also be worth considering — different machine but both are really good.
But really — and I'm being "that guy" here too — since you'll drown it in distortion and feedback anyway it ultimately matters little what you use. If you can afford to get an instrument that is genuinely good, then by sll means go for it, but some 80's digital Yamaha that you can pick off ebay for fifty quid, squeezed through pedals, would do just fine as well. In fact you could create some pretty killer PE tracks just with what you already have.
I would be comfortable spending that kind of money usually but I'm currently saving up for decent reverb and distortion pedals since alongside my solo Death Industrial and PE inspired stuff I'm also playing in an ambient/drone duo with a guitarist.
I think you are right, a cheap old machine off eBay is best for now and I can upgrade at a later date as and when it's needed.
I have been using drum plugins on logic currently but it's much less authentic and much harder to make them get weird and harsh.
definitely look into what the digitakt is capable of. with your gear, it could be the brain of the setup. control everything with midi, use the awesome elektron sequencer for all of your synths and drum machine so you only need to program one machine instead of multiple. you can also "play" your desktop synth with the digitakt because it has a chromatic mode, it's rudimentary but more than enough for simple basslines, leads or pads.
you could sample any of your synths into the digitakt very easily, there's 8 channels for samples so basically you could have your synth do something else while a basic sampled bass pattern comes from the digitakt. you can make a drum sound kit with your MS10, sample the sounds to your digitakt and then you have no need for a drum machine. or buy any classic drum machine sound bank for that matter (i recently bought a really cool drum sound kit made with a dod death metal for example).
you can also use it as a 2i2 sound card! or a VST inside your DAW of choice.
add a digitakt and a DFAM and man, just those two are enough for a whole career of industrial music.
I'm also recently looking for my first drum machine and came across Korg Volca Beats & Kick.
Both should be useful for Industrial Techno as well as Death Industrial & Power Electronics.
Could maybe someone give any advice, which of the machines is "better" to start with, respectively which benefits they may have?
As a beginner I'm quite unsure which one would better serve this purpose...
Quote from: dreadfulmirror on July 26, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
I'm also recently looking for my first drum machine and came across Korg Volca Beats & Kick.
Both should be useful for Industrial Techno as well as Death Industrial & Power Electronics.
Could maybe someone give any advice, which of the machines is "better" to start with, respectively which benefits they may have?
As a beginner I'm quite unsure which one would better serve this purpose...
I had a volca kick, I loved it. Its main limitation is only having the one voice, but it is very good at kicks. You can chain 16 patterns of 16 beats in "song" mode and alter the MS-20 filter settings as you go.
The only reason I sold it was I needed some quick cash, and subsequently have purchased the volca drum to replace it.I would get another kick for sure.
Added this on a whim to my Neutron order. Absolutely the most primitive bass and drum sounds imaginable. You will need a looper or something though, since you can only program "approximately" two bars on it. I've tried sampling this on a Kaoss Pad with so far promising results.
(https://dubreq.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Beatbox2-edit-1000x750.jpg)
Quote from: dreadfulmirror on July 26, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
I'm also recently looking for my first drum machine and came across Korg Volca Beats & Kick.
Both should be useful for Industrial Techno as well as Death Industrial & Power Electronics.
Could maybe someone give any advice, which of the machines is "better" to start with, respectively which benefits they may have?
As a beginner I'm quite unsure which one would better serve this purpose...
Check out the Volca Drum instead. I've no experience of it myself, but it's apparently the most versatile of the lot. Beats is pretty much useless for PE imo, and of course the Kick will only do bass drums and sime resonant squeals.
Meanwhile I got the Akai Rhythm Wolf for a good price, and it sounds very promising so far.
But thank you for your help anyway!
Quote from: dreadfulmirror on August 27, 2020, 11:52:12 AM
Meanwhile I got the Akai Rhythm Wolf for a good price, and it sounds very promising so far.
But thank you for your help anyway!
rhythm wolf would be the worst drum machine i have ever used. kinda proves how non gear dependent industrial or noise is, hah
I mean I'd second the Moog DFAM, although that's probably gonna run about €400/$500.
A lot of these less-expensive options would work just fine for ya.
I have been using an Akai MPX8, probably the cheapest possible sampler available, and it works just fine. I haven't even bothered to load new samples into it, I just put all the stock samples I like into one kit and run it through a fuzz pedal and reverb. I'm assuming they're stock because anything from the previous owner had to have been stored on an SD card that he didn't include. It only ran me around $60 off Reverb.com, and the 909 kick sound, gunshot sample, rimshot, and assorted cymbals sound so apocalyptic I have no reason to spend any money on anything else. If I really get bored with these sounds I can easily find different samples. Granted there is no sequencing ability on this sampler, so I run it through a looper with my synth etc. I use drum sounds pretty sparingly, so spending money on an actual drum machine to ONLY use on death industrial seemed pointless. I get so distracted by tone tweaking that I hardly record so adding another full on computerized gizmo to the mix seemed like it would do more harm than good. Easier to just be stuck with shitty drum sounds and no sequencing and just focus on atmosphere. Don't really like highly technical death industrial anyways.
Quote from: Lysergikon137 on September 01, 2020, 10:01:26 PM
I have been using an Akai MPX8, probably the cheapest possible sampler available, and it works just fine. I haven't even bothered to load new samples into it, I just put all the stock samples I like into one kit and run it through a fuzz pedal and reverb. I'm assuming they're stock because anything from the previous owner had to have been stored on an SD card that he didn't include. It only ran me around $60 off Reverb.com, and the 909 kick sound, gunshot sample, rimshot, and assorted cymbals sound so apocalyptic I have no reason to spend any money on anything else. If I really get bored with these sounds I can easily find different samples. Granted there is no sequencing ability on this sampler, so I run it through a looper with my synth etc. I use drum sounds pretty sparingly, so spending money on an actual drum machine to ONLY use on death industrial seemed pointless. I get so distracted by tone tweaking that I hardly record so adding another full on computerized gizmo to the mix seemed like it would do more harm than good. Easier to just be stuck with shitty drum sounds and no sequencing and just focus on atmosphere. Don't really like highly technical death industrial anyways.
hah, i had one of these for two days. in crashed when i tried to import a sample that was over 10 seconds (officially the limit for a kit is 30 seconds, so you'd think three 10 second samples would work? nope!). i returned it to the store.
Quote from: host body on September 02, 2020, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: Lysergikon137 on September 01, 2020, 10:01:26 PM
I have been using an Akai MPX8, probably the cheapest possible sampler available, and it works just fine. I haven't even bothered to load new samples into it, I just put all the stock samples I like into one kit and run it through a fuzz pedal and reverb. I'm assuming they're stock because anything from the previous owner had to have been stored on an SD card that he didn't include. It only ran me around $60 off Reverb.com, and the 909 kick sound, gunshot sample, rimshot, and assorted cymbals sound so apocalyptic I have no reason to spend any money on anything else. If I really get bored with these sounds I can easily find different samples. Granted there is no sequencing ability on this sampler, so I run it through a looper with my synth etc. I use drum sounds pretty sparingly, so spending money on an actual drum machine to ONLY use on death industrial seemed pointless. I get so distracted by tone tweaking that I hardly record so adding another full on computerized gizmo to the mix seemed like it would do more harm than good. Easier to just be stuck with shitty drum sounds and no sequencing and just focus on atmosphere. Don't really like highly technical death industrial anyways.
hah, i had one of these for two days. in crashed when i tried to import a sample that was over 10 seconds (officially the limit for a kit is 30 seconds, so you'd think three 10 second samples would work? nope!). i returned it to the store.
Not surprising, I have yet to use the apparently archaic "kit editing" software that Akai provides. I have just been using it for one-shot percussive hits or running the same hits looped for ratchet-y sounding mechanical drones. I can't imagine this thing would be much use for someone using a sampler for anything longer, but it works great as a janky drum source for decrepit death stuff.
Quote from: Lysergikon137 on September 03, 2020, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: host body on September 02, 2020, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: Lysergikon137 on September 01, 2020, 10:01:26 PM
I have been using an Akai MPX8, probably the cheapest possible sampler available, and it works just fine. I haven't even bothered to load new samples into it, I just put all the stock samples I like into one kit and run it through a fuzz pedal and reverb. I'm assuming they're stock because anything from the previous owner had to have been stored on an SD card that he didn't include. It only ran me around $60 off Reverb.com, and the 909 kick sound, gunshot sample, rimshot, and assorted cymbals sound so apocalyptic I have no reason to spend any money on anything else. If I really get bored with these sounds I can easily find different samples. Granted there is no sequencing ability on this sampler, so I run it through a looper with my synth etc. I use drum sounds pretty sparingly, so spending money on an actual drum machine to ONLY use on death industrial seemed pointless. I get so distracted by tone tweaking that I hardly record so adding another full on computerized gizmo to the mix seemed like it would do more harm than good. Easier to just be stuck with shitty drum sounds and no sequencing and just focus on atmosphere. Don't really like highly technical death industrial anyways.
hah, i had one of these for two days. in crashed when i tried to import a sample that was over 10 seconds (officially the limit for a kit is 30 seconds, so you'd think three 10 second samples would work? nope!). i returned it to the store.
Not surprising, I have yet to use the apparently archaic "kit editing" software that Akai provides. I have just been using it for one-shot percussive hits or running the same hits looped for ratchet-y sounding mechanical drones. I can't imagine this thing would be much use for someone using a sampler for anything longer, but it works great as a janky drum source for decrepit death stuff.
yeah for sure, if i had been just after a simple sampler for playing back a kit, it would have sufficed really well. i wanted to be abled to sample and loop longer stuff as well, and eventually got an octatrack, hah.
Yeah sounds like you needed the opposite end of the sampling spectrum ha. Funny that I should mention that its only good as a janky piece for decrepit music, because I finally decided to install the software and start loading up samples and it was a complete failure due to everything you just mentioned. Downloaded the Kit Editor and File Convertor and two sample libraries from the same webpage that Akai made FOR this sampler. Loaded the samples onto the SD card and decided to make a kit on the sampler itself... only to get the message that the samples I got from Akai are in the wrong format (despite being .wavs with an average length of 2s). Went to install the File Convertor... doesn't run on my current MacOS...
So yeah, this thing doesn't seem to be good for much of anything, but I don't mind. I'm not trying to do anything with it beyond Mörder Machine-inspired thumping. Less tech, more atmosphere, keep it old school for death industrial imo. Honestly not mad about the price I paid for it, getting anything more complex would just be distracting.
Quote from: Lysergikon137 on September 01, 2020, 10:01:26 PM
I have been using an Akai MPX8, probably the cheapest possible sampler available, and it works just fine. I haven't even bothered to load new samples into it, I just put all the stock samples I like into one kit and run it through a fuzz pedal and reverb. I'm assuming they're stock because anything from the previous owner had to have been stored on an SD card that he didn't include. It only ran me around $60 off Reverb.com, and the 909 kick sound, gunshot sample, rimshot, and assorted cymbals sound so apocalyptic I have no reason to spend any money on anything else. If I really get bored with these sounds I can easily find different samples. Granted there is no sequencing ability on this sampler, so I run it through a looper with my synth etc. I use drum sounds pretty sparingly, so spending money on an actual drum machine to ONLY use on death industrial seemed pointless. I get so distracted by tone tweaking that I hardly record so adding another full on computerized gizmo to the mix seemed like it would do more harm than good. Easier to just be stuck with shitty drum sounds and no sequencing and just focus on atmosphere. Don't really like highly technical death industrial anyways.
This sounds amazing! I have actually inherited a Roland SP-404SX recently so I've just been using that for drums and beats among other things and it's slowly become one of my most important pieces of gear and seems to be good enough for the music I am currently making.
I am potentially considering making IDM and Techno further down the line but I can cross that bridge when I get it to.
Quote from: host body on August 27, 2020, 01:07:18 PM
Quote from: dreadfulmirror on August 27, 2020, 11:52:12 AM
Meanwhile I got the Akai Rhythm Wolf for a good price, and it sounds very promising so far.
But thank you for your help anyway!
rhythm wolf would be the worst drum machine i have ever used. kinda proves how non gear dependent industrial or noise is, hah
Got a bit deeper into the Rhythm Wolf by now and chose to sell it again. It's no bad Drumcomputer, but not really suitable for what I'd like to do...
If someone is interested: https://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=10982.0
you can always grab super cheap Alesis SR16 from ebay and slap it through some pedals/fx/MS20/eurorack/whatever...
the built in sequencer is so easy programming...
Personally have multiple from over the years & DM5...
got my first one in the early 90s from somewhere/someone/somehow(don't remember anymore)
someone stole my yamaha RX7 & Roland TR707...
not the greatest or the worst drum machine ever used...
yet considering got them for free & resurrected via jumper wire then not complaining...
you can always try to snag cheap Roland MC303 if get lucky yet IMO the SR16 is easier programming patterns/songs...