What shape or form the term "revival" would take in Noise/Industrial given that the genres are too ill-defined and loose in definition as they appeared in late 70's /early 80's. In other genres is too easy to follow a formula in terms of composition and make the revival happen, is just a matter of intent and declaration.
Let's say to make a punk revival you only need to play a few 2-3 chords in succession accompanied by the usual thematology of the genre in the lyrics. Same goes with genres such as Surf music, second wave Black Metal and so forth, just to name a few of genres that are so clearly defined. And this topic goes as far back as history of music itself. There were clear definitions and instructions in how medieval monophonic sacred music should be created.
Now I know that the noise genre was never dead or dormant due to constant new blood or under the so called umbrella term of post-industrial and the later attempts at have well defined and structured sub-genres such as power noise, HNW, etc but I think there was never a proper revival due to the above ill defined and divergent paths of the early artists. So whom you will have to revive? Throbbing Gristle? The New Blockaders? Controlled Bleeding? NWW or Skinny Puppy?...
you get my point
I am interested to hear your thoughts on the matter regarding both composition/thematology related to this idea of revival.
Another idea would be to make some concept compilation under this theme with current artists that are immersed in the scene. Part tribute/recapitulation and part mapping of the current environment?
Just an idea..
So i assume that by industrial / noise revival you mean recreation of original industrial and noise estethetics, themes, sounds and general spirit of certain era or specific artists but not going back to only the OG spirit or experimentational approach?
I think that time was more about open experimentation with sound production, along with an underground/DIY attitude towards making it. Cassette culture came out of that time when home recording gear got more prevalent and cheaper. The way I hear it, people were inspired to do whatever the fuck they wanted with the primitive gear that they had. So the two main elements were a willingness to experiment, and imagination.
Also, I think Industrial at that time could have been anything from a NWW audio collage to Club Moral shouting the "song's" title over and over again over an ultra-simple synth sequence. Personally, I quite like that kind of broadness of definition, these days.
So, if you want a "revival" of the spirit of those times, late seventies to early eighties, I'd suggest the elements are simple gear and sound sources, but an experimental and imaginative approach to what you can do with it. To the point where what's created might not even sound like anything most people to day would associate with Industrial. Whether that's a good thing or not is too subjective to say.
EDIT - OR, an experimental and imaginative approach to the simple digital gear we have now. It's possible to create sounds on a basic computer that people in those days would have only dreamed about. Yet it's still pretty simple and easy to use - easier, in fact, than setting up a huge synth or oil drum in an empty factory. A lot of people can be critical of how easy it is to make sounds these days, but I'd suggest the missing element is imagination and a willingness to experiment. It should still be possible.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on March 11, 2023, 11:10:38 AM
So, if you want a "revival" of the spirit of those times, late seventies to early eighties, I'd suggest the elements are simple gear and sound sources, but an experimental and imaginative approach to what you can do with it. To the point where what's created might not even sound like anything most people to day would associate with Industrial. Whether that's a good thing or not is too subjective to say.
At that point in time you had to go thru quite a bit of effort to get that primitive gear, much less release a tape. Which automatically kind of meant that only the people really interested and inspired would actually record, much less release anything. Nowadays the internet is full of self recorded, primitive and more often than not, completely uninspired "experimental" music. So, very much made in the spirit of old industrial as you define it, but unfortunately made by people with no vision or talent.
Quote from: host body on March 11, 2023, 11:14:26 AM
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on March 11, 2023, 11:10:38 AM
So, if you want a "revival" of the spirit of those times, late seventies to early eighties, I'd suggest the elements are simple gear and sound sources, but an experimental and imaginative approach to what you can do with it. To the point where what's created might not even sound like anything most people to day would associate with Industrial. Whether that's a good thing or not is too subjective to say.
At that point in time you had to go thru quite a bit of effort to get that primitive gear, much less release a tape. Which automatically kind of meant that only the people really interested and inspired would actually record, much less release anything. Nowadays the internet is full of self recorded, primitive and more often than not, completely uninspired "experimental" music. So, very much made in the spirit of old industrial as you define it, but unfortunately made by people with no vision or talent.
I think that your notion is pretty spot on in ways of vision and talent. Internet has brought the means and equipment to the masses but not the vision. This phenomenon could be observed in synth craze that started in COVID years that brought us thousands of bandcamp and youtube "releases" of uninspired and aimless "DAWless jams" and lackluster experimental music, especially ambient stuff and modular bleep-blooping.
If the inspiration is not cultivated by actual listening and examing and immersing itself in certain music and scene but in only the need of recognizition and influencer- and materialism-driven "want to do something" in order to fill the inner void caused by the postmodern world, results are often lackluster or pure shit in my opinion.
Quote from: Commander15 on March 11, 2023, 10:10:59 AM
So i assume that by industrial / noise revival you mean recreation of original industrial and noise estethetics, themes, sounds and general spirit of certain era or specific artists but not going back to only the OG spirit or experimentational approach?
Yes, exactly. Also, regarding specific artists this idea of revival gets even more confusing as certain early industrial names moved on in different directions pretty quickly...like SPK for example. From the noisy first album to more structured industrial of Leichenshcrei, from synth pop to the dark ambience of Zamia Lehmanni.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on March 11, 2023, 11:10:38 AM
I think that time was more about open experimentation with sound production, along with an underground/DIY attitude towards making it. Cassette culture came out of that time when home recording gear got more prevalent and cheaper. The way I hear it, people were inspired to do whatever the fuck they wanted with the primitive gear that they had. So the two main elements were a willingness to experiment, and imagination.
Also, I think Industrial at that time could have been anything from a NWW audio collage to Club Moral shouting the "song's" title over and over again over an ultra-simple synth sequence. Personally, I quite like that kind of broadness of definition, these days.
So, if you want a "revival" of the spirit of those times, late seventies to early eighties, I'd suggest the elements are simple gear and sound sources, but an experimental and imaginative approach to what you can do with it. To the point where what's created might not even sound like anything most people to day would associate with Industrial. Whether that's a good thing or not is too subjective to say.
EDIT - OR, an experimental and imaginative approach to the simple digital gear we have now. It's possible to create sounds on a basic computer that people in those days would have only dreamed about. Yet it's still pretty simple and easy to use - easier, in fact, than setting up a huge synth or oil drum in an empty factory. A lot of people can be critical of how easy it is to make sounds these days, but I'd suggest the missing element is imagination and a willingness to experiment. It should still be possible.
Very good points.
I am thinking in the end the only "revival" possible could be to capture a bit (but very vaguely) the "spirit" or "that feeling" either via aesthetics, themes, experimentation, some piece of vintage gear.
Quote from: Thermophile on March 11, 2023, 01:31:33 PM
I am thinking in the end the only "revival" possible could be to capture a bit (but very vaguely) the "spirit" or "that feeling" either via aesthetics, themes, experimentation, some piece of vintage gear.
Hasn't this been done since basically the beginning? I mean new artists using the same themes, aesthetics and gear as those 80s pioneers and making music ranging from vaguely similar to complete rip off?
Quote from: host body on March 11, 2023, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: Thermophile on March 11, 2023, 01:31:33 PM
I am thinking in the end the only "revival" possible could be to capture a bit (but very vaguely) the "spirit" or "that feeling" either via aesthetics, themes, experimentation, some piece of vintage gear.
Hasn't this been done since basically the beginning? I mean new artists using the same themes, aesthetics and gear as those 80s pioneers and making music ranging from vahuely similar to complete rip off?
sort of, but nothing that is too deliberate or that captures the whole movement. Contrast to the example of newer goth bands who very deliberately replicate the 80's goth sound and even dress or look like those artists from back then.
So I guess the distinction between rip off and revival would be in declaring your intentions and being too obvious as sort of a "tribute" band, lol.
"Hasn't this been done since basically the beginning?"
Genesis P.Orridge said that people were ripping off just one tiny element from TG sound and creating entire subgenres out of it.
I think he meant artists like Whitehouse, Lustmord or Esplendor Geometrico etc. I am guessing he meant that Whitehouse created the whole PE genre by using the TG track "We hate you(little girls)" as a blueprint but William Bennett denies this.
This whole narrative of Genesis could be his megalomania in thinking Throbbing Gristle were so spermatic.
So the answer is both yes and no and feels a bit like being trapped in meta-narratives.
I think only a few of the early artists got the rip off treatment as they came out with a clear formula and distinct consistent style that they continued to pursue throughout their career and that is easier to replicate.
Quote from: Thermophile on March 11, 2023, 02:20:59 PM
Quote from: host body on March 11, 2023, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: Thermophile on March 11, 2023, 01:31:33 PM
I am thinking in the end the only "revival" possible could be to capture a bit (but very vaguely) the "spirit" or "that feeling" either via aesthetics, themes, experimentation, some piece of vintage gear.
Hasn't this been done since basically the beginning? I mean new artists using the same themes, aesthetics and gear as those 80s pioneers and making music ranging from vahuely similar to complete rip off?
sort of, but nothing that is too deliberate or that captures the whole movement. Contrast to the example of newer goth bands who very deliberately replicate the 80's goth sound and even dress or look like those artists from back then.
So I guess the distinction between rip off and revival would be in declaring your intentions and being too obvious as sort of a "tribute" band, lol.
"Hasn't this been done since basically the beginning?"
Genesis P.Orridge said that people were ripping off just one tiny element from TG sound and creating entire subgenres out of it.
I think he meant artists like Whitehouse, Lustmord or Esplendor Geometrico etc. I am guessing he meant that Whitehouse created the whole PE genre by using the TG track "We hate you(little girls)" as a blueprint but William Bennett denies this.
This whole narrative of Genesis could be his megalomania in thinking Throbbing Gristle were so spermatic.
So the answer is both yes and no and feels a bit like being trapped in meta-narratives.
I think only a few of the early artists got the rip off treatment as they came out with a clear formula and distinct consistent style that they continued to pursue throughout their career and that is easier to replicate.
I feel that this goth revival scheme applies to post-punk revival movement in general. The whole post-punk field was so diverse musically that revivalists, or rip-off artists, decided to focus on certain narrow estethic aspects, sounds and overall moods of few biggest acts i.e. Joy Division, Killing Joke, The Sound etc. In Finland it has gone so far that some people do not recognize post-punk influences outside the usual reference points and sounds.
I firmly believe that it is not question of sound of aesthetic, but feeling or firm belief that what is being done, matters.
To elaborate little, if you have now guy who spends X amount of money to buy gear that is known to be noise gear. He creates pretty decent replication within genre confinements. It gets loaded to bandcamp, gets few listens. Maybe even physical release, some copies are sold. Even if being satisfied with achievement of creating decent noise, is there presence of almost revolutionary spirit, awareness that what you do matters. Perhaps beyond mere personal enjoyment. And that it is absolutely positive anomaly among generic human interaction/communication?
Revival can mean several things. When you talk about "punk revival", it may be literal definition of revival: an instance of something becoming popular, active, or important again. This can be applied for so trite things like cycle of trend has reached point where playing guitar is cool again.
Other meanings of revival, could be a restoration to life or consciousness, an improvement in the condition, strength. I would say that is what industrial-noise would benefit of. That artists feels what he does matters, plus because it matters, clearly effects his life and decision in a way that "noise" ain't just hobby, but in many ways integrally part of life itself. Which tends to be also by consequence something else than what is the common lifestyle in current society.
How that expression sounds or looks like, is less relevant. Both noise and industrial culture included so vastly different approaches and sounds many didn't even really recognize or feel being part of any "genre" or "movement", even if they clearly appear to be.
I personally feel that there IS and has been going on revival. I feel there is plenty of artists who create works that are really integral to who they are, and how they live, what they try to express. I see it no lesser than visions or creativity of SPK, TG, Merzbow or NON or whatever. They just exists in different time. Those artists would be really good to somehow recognized. So back to trivial "revival", an instance of something becoming popular, active, or important again, let's say like music press would recognize a new name. When experimental sound is recognized, of course it is absolutely great if Masami or Vainio gets press coverage, but what if there would be even one actual music or culture magazine who'd recognize not those obvious veterans but ... lets use Finnish example as I happen to live here, instead memorial of Mika Vainio*, there would be someone writing about Junkyard Shaman! Or Nuori Veri! Or... well I guess you get the point. The fact that many may be asking why in the fuck would music or art magazine need to acknowledge something like that, simply tells how things are. Revival of best things in "industrial culture" is unrecognized, even within noise scene itself. I dare to say. I keep my thumbs up ability to recognize such things will improve.
(*or piece about Lehtisalo, Läjä or Keuhkot, which all are BRILLIANT and always delight to read, but shows how most visible documentation is dragging like decades behind, while creativity is happening NOW)
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 11, 2023, 05:46:26 PM
I firmly believe that it is not question of sound of aesthetic, but feeling or firm belief that what is being done, matters.
To elaborate little, if you have now guy who spends X amount of money to buy gear that is known to be noise gear. He creates pretty decent replication within genre confinements. It gets loaded to bandcamp, gets few listens. Maybe even physical release, some copies are sold. Even if being satisfied with achievement of creating decent noise, is there presence of almost revolutionary spirit, awareness that what you do matters. Perhaps beyond mere personal enjoyment. And that it is absolutely positive anomaly among generic human interaction/communication?
Revival can mean several things. When you talk about "punk revival", it may be literal definition of revival: an instance of something becoming popular, active, or important again. This can be applied for so trite things like cycle of trend has reached point where playing guitar is cool again.
Other meanings of revival, could be a restoration to life or consciousness, an improvement in the condition, strength. I would say that is what industrial-noise would benefit of. That artists feels what he does matters, plus because it matters, clearly effects his life and decision in a way that "noise" ain't just hobby, but in many ways integrally part of life itself. Which tends to be also by consequence something else than what is the common lifestyle in current society.
How that expression sounds or looks like, is less relevant. Both noise and industrial culture included so vastly different approaches and sounds many didn't even really recognize or feel being part of any "genre" or "movement", even if they clearly appear to be.
I personally feel that there IS and has been going on revival. I feel there is plenty of artists who create works that are really integral to who they are, and how they live, what they try to express. I see it no lesser than visions or creativity of SPK, TG, Merzbow or NON or whatever. They just exists in different time. Those artists would be really good to somehow recognized. So back to trivial "revival", an instance of something becoming popular, active, or important again, let's say like music press would recognize a new name. When experimental sound is recognized, of course it is absolutely great if Masami or Vainio gets press coverage, but what if there would be even one actual music or culture magazine who'd recognize not those obvious veterans but ... lets use Finnish example as I happen to live here, instead memorial of Mika Vainio*, there would be someone writing about Junkyard Shaman! Or Nuori Veri! Or... well I guess you get the point. The fact that many may be asking why in the fuck would music or art magazine need to acknowledge something like that, simply tells how things are. Revival of best things in "industrial culture" is unrecognized, even within noise scene itself. I dare to say. I keep my thumbs up ability to recognize such things will improve.
(*or piece about Lehtisalo, Läjä or Keuhkot, which all are BRILLIANT and always delight to read, but shows how most visible documentation is dragging like decades behind, while creativity is happening NOW)
Pretty damn well put!
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 11, 2023, 05:46:26 PM
I firmly believe that it is not question of sound of aesthetic, but feeling or firm belief that what is being done, matters.
To elaborate little, if you have now guy who spends X amount of money to buy gear that is known to be noise gear. He creates pretty decent replication within genre confinements. It gets loaded to bandcamp, gets few listens. Maybe even physical release, some copies are sold. Even if being satisfied with achievement of creating decent noise, is there presence of almost revolutionary spirit, awareness that what you do matters. Perhaps beyond mere personal enjoyment. And that it is absolutely positive anomaly among generic human interaction/communication?
Revival can mean several things. When you talk about "punk revival", it may be literal definition of revival: an instance of something becoming popular, active, or important again. This can be applied for so trite things like cycle of trend has reached point where playing guitar is cool again.
Other meanings of revival, could be a restoration to life or consciousness, an improvement in the condition, strength. I would say that is what industrial-noise would benefit of. That artists feels what he does matters, plus because it matters, clearly effects his life and decision in a way that "noise" ain't just hobby, but in many ways integrally part of life itself. Which tends to be also by consequence something else than what is the common lifestyle in current society.
How that expression sounds or looks like, is less relevant. Both noise and industrial culture included so vastly different approaches and sounds many didn't even really recognize or feel being part of any "genre" or "movement", even if they clearly appear to be.
I personally feel that there IS and has been going on revival. I feel there is plenty of artists who create works that are really integral to who they are, and how they live, what they try to express. I see it no lesser than visions or creativity of SPK, TG, Merzbow or NON or whatever. They just exists in different time. Those artists would be really good to somehow recognized. So back to trivial "revival", an instance of something becoming popular, active, or important again, let's say like music press would recognize a new name. When experimental sound is recognized, of course it is absolutely great if Masami or Vainio gets press coverage, but what if there would be even one actual music or culture magazine who'd recognize not those obvious veterans but ... lets use Finnish example as I happen to live here, instead memorial of Mika Vainio*, there would be someone writing about Junkyard Shaman! Or Nuori Veri! Or... well I guess you get the point. The fact that many may be asking why in the fuck would music or art magazine need to acknowledge something like that, simply tells how things are. Revival of best things in "industrial culture" is unrecognized, even within noise scene itself. I dare to say. I keep my thumbs up ability to recognize such things will improve.
(*or piece about Lehtisalo, Läjä or Keuhkot, which all are BRILLIANT and always delight to read, but shows how most visible documentation is dragging like decades behind, while creativity is happening NOW)
I bolded the paragraph that resonated within me. I think that it is anacronistic and futile task to attempt to exactly recreate for example Information Overload Unit-era SPK sound and aestethics. But to recreate or reinvigorate that spirit and drive, sense of doing something that matters and is against the dull and uninspired general state of our times, that would be the "revival" that is needed and that is happening right now.
I would also gladly see the umbrella terms "industrial" and "noise" empowered and somewhat purged from unwanted cultural and mainstream baggage that has been applied to them in course of the years.
The revival that is necessary is the revival of meaning and feeling... music, regardless of style, should stir up feelings in you. I feel that there is so much noise (well, a lot of other types of music too) being made that is just made becuase you can. Blame it on computers, Bandcamp whatever. What we miss is intent, to actually want to create something of importance, something that matters, something that touches you. It has become too easy to make music and it seems to attract the lazy people.
Then again, who am I to say what is meaningful to you?
Quote from: Krigsverk on March 13, 2023, 01:28:53 PM
The revival that is necessary is the revival of meaning and feeling... music, regardless of style, should stir up feelings in you. I feel that there is so much noise (well, a lot of other types of music too) being made that is just made becuase you can. Blame it on computers, Bandcamp whatever. What we miss is intent, to actually want to create something of importance, something that matters, something that touches you. It has become too easy to make music and it seems to attract the lazy people.
Then again, who am I to say what is meaningful to you?
There is certainly way too much 'tourism' these days. "Hey guy's heres my black metal / Noise / Dungeon synth project!" etc etc..
Speaking for myself, i make music because i feel completely compelled to, i have to do this. I could probably find any amount of more pleasurable ways to spend a evening than in a cold room trying to make a synth make the sound i
NEED it to make. But i dont, and when i am doing something else, like working, my mind is drifting back to thinking of ways to get
THAT sound.
My working definition of industrial has for a long time been, and for the time being at least will remain, any non-academic weird-ass music, for a given value of weird-ass.
The key, as always, is the latter, as of course nothing is ever given so much as taken (if hopefully not...entirely...for granted.)
And. Call me a weirdo and guilty as charged but that separation from the academic set needs to be asserted. I'll take your manifesto, but leave your thesis at the door, thank you.
Hold on. Did he say, revival? Well, aw shucks...
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 13, 2023, 05:56:38 PMAnd. Call me a weirdo and guilty as charged but that separation from the academic set needs to be asserted. I'll take your manifesto, but leave your thesis at the door, thank you.
haha! This can be true. Was just reading that older RRRon interview linked in the "noise interviews topic". He mentions that as famous as Russolo's manifest is, never read it. Concludes also that despite long history of experimental sound, the noise we talk about, is born from moment when sound creation no longer happened in universities, and birth of home recordings / cassette culture emerged.
Those being of course absolutely obvious. Point being, for me manifesto or essay, or some sort of noise writing is very interesting, but any book, any research, in form of university thesis is unbearable to read. There are some of those books, even in my shelves..
Best of all possible worlds: a fanzine in hardcover (book form).
Quote from: Keruben on March 14, 2023, 12:02:24 PM
Best of all possible worlds: a fanzine in hardcover (book form).
Pretty costly way to do zine!
Quote from: Commander15 on March 14, 2023, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: Keruben on March 14, 2023, 12:02:24 PM
Best of all possible worlds: a fanzine in hardcover (book form).
Pretty costly way to do zine!
Not too costly, have been looking around at different possibilities.
Quote from: Commander15 on March 14, 2023, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: Keruben on March 14, 2023, 12:02:24 PM
Best of all possible worlds: a fanzine in hardcover (book form).
Pretty costly way to do zine!
Noise Receptor zine did a few editions of their compilations in hardback. Some might still be available.
Wasn't there a thread on this forum about manifestos?
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on March 14, 2023, 01:26:25 PM
Quote from: Commander15 on March 14, 2023, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: Keruben on March 14, 2023, 12:02:24 PM
Best of all possible worlds: a fanzine in hardcover (book form).
Pretty costly way to do zine!
Noise Receptor zine did a few editions of their compilations in hardback. Some might still be available.
Wasn't there a thread on this forum about manifestos?
I do apologise for the detour.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on March 14, 2023, 01:26:25 PM
Quote from: Commander15 on March 14, 2023, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: Keruben on March 14, 2023, 12:02:24 PM
Best of all possible worlds: a fanzine in hardcover (book form).
Pretty costly way to do zine!
Noise Receptor zine did a few editions of their compilations in hardback. Some might still be available.
Yes - that is correct- both volume 1 & volume 2 book reissues of sold out back issues of Noise Receptor are available in hardcover books (and softcover too) - as is the collected back issues of my first zine Spectrum Magazine. Each title is on Headpress, and as is published on high end 'print on demand', the titles will remain available as long as there is interest.
Links for more details below:
https://headpress.com/product/noise-receptor-vol1/
https://headpress.com/product/noise-receptor-journal-volume-2/
https://headpress.com/product/spectrum-compendium/
Quote from: Thermophile on March 11, 2023, 02:20:59 PM
Quote from: host body on March 11, 2023, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: Thermophile on March 11, 2023, 01:31:33 PM
I am thinking in the end the only "revival" possible could be to capture a bit (but very vaguely) the "spirit" or "that feeling" either via aesthetics, themes, experimentation, some piece of vintage gear.
Hasn't this been done since basically the beginning? I mean new artists using the same themes, aesthetics and gear as those 80s pioneers and making music ranging from vahuely similar to complete rip off?
sort of, but nothing that is too deliberate or that captures the whole movement.
I dunno, but I remember feeling that there was a real industrial revival happening with advent of the new "American/dude noise" scene in the late 90s, early 00s. You had Wolf Eyes namechecking Throbbing Gristle, Merzbow, and Hunting Lodge. Them and guys like Hair Police, Hive Mind and many others churning out experimental sounds on home-built gear and metal junk. There were all the required degrees of separation from the academia and million-dollar electronic studios.
And there came other (more interesting) groups like Yellow Swans, Double Leopards and The Skaters that were more into droning and sustained tones. They related to Wolf Eyes et al like Organum or Zoviet France related to the original Industrial Records camp.
Possibly I tend to over-analyze things that happened purely as a matter of synchronicity. Similar things have occurred in Finland or Sweden too. But for me as an outsider all of these, however disparate, US bands/projects seemed to coalesce into a real revivalist industrial movement, at least in sound and intent. Then to what extent they adhered to "trve" industrial dogmas such as the anti-authoritarianism or the use of shock tactics is up for debate though.
Quote from: post-morten on March 15, 2023, 01:47:22 PM
Possibly I tend to over-analyze things that happened purely as a matter of synchronicity. Similar things have occurred in Finland or Sweden too. But for me as an outsider all of these, however disparate, US bands/projects seemed to coalesce into a real revivalist industrial movement, at least in sound and intent. Then to what extent they adhered to "trve" industrial dogmas such as the anti-authoritarianism or the use of shock tactics is up for debate though.
I suppose question of revival was not really if it has happened in past - but about happening again?
I'd supposed there has been multiple revivals by now. Thinking for example the mentioned Finnish and Swedish things. But also, Germany, Austria, Italy.. There was so strong currents of things happening in 90's, that were clearly sort of "back to basics" (wink) attitude, to take new look on industrial heritage and work something new on it.
I recall American friend who was talking sometime mid 00's, who concluded that EVERYBODY wants euro power electronics / industrial / heavy electronics. Anything on Tesco, Loki, MDP... The era of Cold Meat where they'd start to put out IRM and Proiekt Hat, Finns would be first time known in global noise genre with names such when Pain Nail, Order., Strom.ec, Cloama and such made themselves visible and it wouldn't be just BU, UND and Grunt networking out there. Italians going strong with MC, DBL, Atrax Morgue and many more. None of them probably in unbroken lineage from TG/SPK or even Come Org/BF, but some sort of rejuvenation, revival with a bit of something else happening than retro.
I think strength of those revivals was that nobody was really absolutely consciously imitating anything. Or there was no knowledge or technology. Sure everybody had their influences, but it's not like now, when someone can have idea of what product to make, who to market it for, how it must sound and look like. Those revivals still happened into world where slower human interaction and aim for something bigger was the making it possible.
One topic that I have been thinking, in times when we are allowed smaller pressings of everything it has changed a lot of things. Making CD in times when you had to make 500 or 1000 was drastically different from times when you can make 100. Also thinking when edition of 100 LP's was anomaly. Even 200 was. It is true, that factually, a lot of old tapes were dubbed microscopic amounts, as they had quite different function than in times when you sell tapes as albums in existing market. Just about everything else, was produced bigger quantities, were it may have not been idea, but resulted that you had to reach more people. You had to put lots of time and effort to move stuff and reach new listeners. Now, it appears as if most publishers have kind of defeated mentality, that more often is pressed LESS than there is demand. No faith that there could be more, not even interest that there could be more. While I do not advocate everything to be mass product, or expect anyone to really care does their work get heard by 20 or 2000, I think there is something counter productive in label/publisher approach if for example sniffing around cool artists, and then just putting out their new stuff in clearly too small edition. Almost like intentional suffocation of possibility of potential?
I know I personally am kind of half&half. In a ways, I'm fine checking out good artists at invite only noise gig at basement. Putting out item that doesn't need to be, or is meant to be "spread out there". But in other hand, pushing things further, reaching new ears and minds and seeing what may come out of it, seems very crucial.
Swedes can probably elaborate, but I would suppose, something like what CMI was doing, including "Estheticks Of Cruelty - An Explicit Odyssey Into Swedish Agricultural Sounds". Kind of create sense of
something is happening here. Kind of gathering together the new vital forces and displaying it clearly that there is something to cultivate and see what can come out of it. That is kind of opposite action of running label who will try to collect all the fruits and fuck it up in ways that new releases of best artists can't be even found.
To elaborate a bit, obviously not in intent to too harshly criticize how labels are being run, but this question used to be often in WCN podcasts, and very rarely it could be articulated by anyone what it is really that they feel labels should be doing.
For me it feels labels should be doing something more than artist can/want to do themselves. Like spending time in trying to get releases out there. Stuff what otherwise would collect dust in corner of reh'place. Getting them sent out in time, getting them sent overseas, filling all that irritating paperwork and handling import taxes. Possibly trading and sending out the trades. Pressing more than any realistic notion of "demand" dictates, since you are not here to leech on existing demand, but to create something new. etc etc.
In that way I get little annoyed occasionally when there is quite often seemingly idea that labels will do less than artists would. Like said, good artists finally starting to get somewhere, and then doing deal with label who will be "nah, I'll do 30. won't be sending anything. Won't be sending overseas. Won't be replying any contacts". Or at worst, doing nothing. Then years laters other labels picking up those missing pieces of discography thinking god damn would it have changed how we see this artists if we heard his best titles when they were SUPPOSED to be heard. Not decade later when that situation is gone... While 100 copies CD in some cases can be absolutely perfect or even too many, a lot of times it feels like current times of easy and cheap manufacturing of tiny editions can be counterproductive for "revival". Meaning, if "well.. noone cares anyways" would be accepted and it dictates how things operate, I would say it certainly is far from ideal. When situation forces you to push more, it may be annoying and energy draining, yet possibly enable good things to happen.
That's a great point regarding labels, and one i was discussing with a fellow musician a few days ago.
He said he was approached by a 'label' who wanted to release a tape of his material, professionally printed inlay, high quality tape etc etc
My friend decides now would be a good time to invest in some better equipment to make the best of this release.
He spends $500 on equipment, and works on that material over 8 months, many hours every evening.
Material goes to label, who then contact him saying due to volume of material his label is releasing he can only do 20 copies.
Label then 'release' it, via a post on a Instagram page and post it on their bandcamp, and that is as far as the 'promotion' goes.
My friend then does all the work to get copies to disto's, while 'label owner' does nothing except maybe tell his friends how he's a 'curator' of a tape label.