As there is a dedicated thread for Whitehouse now, here's one for the other major early PE band, even though a lot of the later rock-styled stuff falls out of the scope of this site. My opinions:
1982-84: After a pretty crude and amateurish first tape Ramleh developed a more psychedelic yet dejected-sounding take on the influence of Come Org output. Probably the best is 'The Hand Of Glory', the Harbinger remastered 12" of this sounds amazing.
1986-88: Some more recognisable traditional instrumentation but this music is difficult to categorise: cosmic? industrial? Krautrock-influenced? Strange sounds for trips inside the inner psyche.
1989-92: Bizarre start for this era with the album for Juntaro's Vis A Vis label 'Grudge For Life' which is a kind of outsider art classic - Best and Mundy take turns on vocals and sound equally insane and disturbed, no drums, crude rock riffs, wild psych production. Later recordings of this era are much more conventional noise-rock with drum machine, similar to contemporary bands such as Splintered.
1993-97: Full rock band with heavily conceptual stylings, completely unique output. Amazing albums Homeless and Be Careful What You Wish For are some of my favourite music ever. Hardly anyone seems to have heard the Elite Gymnastics tape which has some great sounds on it.
2004-present: Another version of a rock band, this time more in the style of the best output of Hawkwind: the 'Switch Hitter' single although I loved it isn't really representative of the sound that will appear on the album due next year. Simultaneously:
2007- present: Ramleh as power electronics duo tribute band to themselves circa 1983! Valediction is a good record with some serious and introspective lyrics.
I had not heard Ramleh until PURE/RRR issued the discs. I joined the "scene" when PE Ramleh was long gone and at first I was really not into the rock era at all. I kept trying to sell the pure discs to Finnish audience and always remembered to tell "fuck that guitar rock era stuff".. hah.
Their delay drenched vocals were among main influences of my own works in mid 90's, along with Masonna screams.
Eventually, I actually like a lot the guitar rock era. From the new stuff, I think that new rock 10" beats easily the new PE CD.
There is just released limited mCD for Japanese gig. Getting few copies for sale soon, but it appears to be little pricey. Still curious how it will sound like!
One could perhaps also mention in the topic Ramleh related bands/groups. Kleistwahr, which did great stuff early on. Supposedly very limited LP reissues on its way. Horrid comeback album can be forgotten. S.P.I.T.E. also great raw PE/noise. LP is just as simple reissues as good PE can be! His contributions in Skullflower, Toll, Male Rape Group and such would be of course worth to check out. MRG in VOD box, Toll reissued by Cold Spring. Skullflower easy to find as 2nd hand copies I guess.
Ethic Acid was long time Ramleh member Anthony Di Franco's solo. Brilliant stuff. There is several tapes. I released 2xCD kind of best-of release on Industrial Recollections, but there is also more vocal heavy PE type of stuff. Great stuff on many tapes what in my opinion would deserve to be issued in their full glory. I consider all those early works better than AX or Novatron, etc. JFK has very good 7"s though!
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 16, 2011, 10:33:48 PM
Kleistwahr, which did great stuff early on. Supposedly very limited LP reissues on its way. Horrid comeback album can be forgotten.
I may be one of the very few people who liked that Kleistwahr 'The Return' album - Gary told me he had more complaints over the record than anything else he'd ever done...
Lyrics to Switch Hitter were by Di Franco. Bitter revenge style words relating the UK response to 7/7 with WW2. Cover photo is a Lancaster Bomber as used over Germany by both his and my grandfathers. But most of the new rock Ramleh material I've heard through live shows is instrumental.
I bought Ramleh '104 Weeks' cassette age 15 in 1984, immediately loved it and still have the tape.
my first experience with ramleh was the guitar noise looser patrol 7" in the early 90's..at the time i was hungry for more electronic sounds and filed to the back of my collection unaware of the bands massive PE past back catalogue ! Fast forward a few decades next encounter was the rrr cd set..and since then trying to get as much as I can get my hands on! I enjoy seeing them live a in both their rock/pe guises....i just love the very english trait of the bitter almost cruel lyrical delivery! And the no fuss anti - macho performances ..like two bitter school headmasters venting their frustrations ! brilliant!!!
I have grown up with the awake boxset, and that period really still gives me hardons.
Lost interest in the guitar oriented stuff.
Latest stuff is interesting.
My favorite material is 31/5/1962 - 1982, The Hand of Glory and A Return to Slavery / Slaughter at Random (I actually enjoy Best's side a lot more than Ramleh's). The most interesting thing on Broken Flag, besides Male Rape Group for me, was Kleistwahr and the compilations. I really haven't heard too much Ramleh after the 1985 stuff. What would you guys recommend?
Guitar-oriented Ramleh I liked "Careful what you wish for" & "Works III" 2cd. I use to have a bunch of the 7"'s (always found'em cheap/discounted in Austin) & a handful of the cd's. Liked'em but never really pulled them for relistens.
I've only been listening to & collecting pe/noise for a couple years and I'm somewhat ashamed to admit I've never really given Ramleh much ear time. I think I must have read some negative reviews of their recent "comeback" material and it scared me away from further investigation.
Saw this thread and decided to check some out, mostly on Youtube. I can definitely now see their importance, influencing a lot of stuff that I currently enjoy (like Lust Vessel releases). I love those murky lo-fi soundscapes. I think I need to give them some serious, attentive listening.
I remember seeing an ad in ALAP for the Awake! CD boxset, but from what I've gathered poking around the net, it hasn't been released yet? Anyone have news on that?
Some seem to think the boxset will be released at or around the time of the big Broken Flag reunion next year.
Not 100% positive but I'm thinking my fave Ramleh tracks are on the WHITE POWER comp (god, that comp is great!). I like the 7" too. I'll grab the boxset, can't see it selling out really fast. I have mp3s of the entire tape set but never listened to it completely since alot of the same songs are repeated (live performances). Wish I'd gotten the 12" reiss of "Hand of Glory" but it was too pricey and I like the sound of the 7".
Just received my copy of the Japanese 'Guidelines' CDEP, more Ramleh in PE mode. It is as physically impressive an item as you would expect for the pricetag, really faultless presentation.
Musically it's fine, walls of analogue noise rush with the usual anguished wails, yet I do think this era of Ramleh self-tribute is the first time they have ever played it safe in a way and done what many would expect or want. At least there is no failed SJ/MO/MB style reinvention and after 25 years of playing to crowds of 40 people in UK pubs if this has enabled the band to play all over the world, who can begrudge them?
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on January 17, 2012, 04:19:45 PMif this has enabled the band to play all over the world, who can begrudge them?
I know I'm in the minority, but I'd be first in line actually.
But if people are eager to indulge in all this ridiculous nostalgia, and bands being cover versions of themselves, you have plenty to choose from.
I don't think Guidelines mCD really is THAT much what I'd rate "what people want". It has the kind of old Ramleh idea - like was said: high pitched feedbacks, wailing vocals, heavy duty low end... theoretically one could said it is the old. But not really. Infact, if someone said, this was actually NOVATRON project, with follow-up material for the "New Rising Sun" CD, I would have believed in blink of an eye. I don't think Ramleh has ever done stuff what sounds like this. On theoretical level one could rate it to repeating the old ideas or doing what's expected, but simply the sound quality alone set it's far away from "old days", very accurately to our times.
For those who don't know Anthony's Novatron project, check:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c46KFAdn5bs
Both have the similarity of ultra high pitched nearly white noise on top, heavy solid low end rumble bass, but actually very little in middle.
I have listened this new Ramleh so far 3 times, and I would say it is good. If you wait "Return To Slavery" or some early BF style PE, it will not be this. This is the new, sharp and crispy and pretty high fidelity Ramleh. I would suspect that saying "wall of analogue noise" is misleading. Isn't it both guys in photos with... ehm.. chaos pads..? With all sorts of USB ports or whatever showing clearly. Sound itself appears very digital, very smooth, yet not in same way as for example with SJ or Whitehouse works.
Quote from: Tommy Carlsson on January 17, 2012, 09:17:41 PM
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on January 17, 2012, 04:19:45 PMif this has enabled the band to play all over the world, who can begrudge them?
I know I'm in the minority, but I'd be first in line actually.
But if people are eager to indulge in all this ridiculous nostalgia, and bands being cover versions of themselves, you have plenty to choose from.
I'm tired of banging heads with people over why nostalgia sucks a big hairy fat one and how depressing it is that it takes a group of quitters to generate slightly broader interest in the genre so I decided to keep my oar housed. Seeing as you put your head above the parapet and pretty much captured how I feel about it I'll stick it right in and agree. With that hopefully said, done and out of the way I will get back to running my label and project which is of the here and now as opposed to those feeding off their past glories.
I've actually never listened to an album by these guys. Would it be ridiculous for me to hear new Ramleh before old Ramleh?
Quote from: Brad on January 18, 2012, 01:43:14 AM
I've actually never listened to an album by these guys. Would it be ridiculous for me to hear new Ramleh before old Ramleh?
probably. I think it'd be weird because there's a ton of their OOP stuff for download
I would be surprised if there weren't analogue sound sources used on 'Guidelines' but could be wrong, it's so hard to tell. I agree there are similarities with the Novatron sound. Incidentally Anthony has a blog at http://anthonydifranco.blogspot.com/
As far as 'nostalgia' goes: it's just my opinion, but I think Power Electronics as a living genre died back in the 80s. Everything now is rehash for obsessive hobbyists: like recreations of Delta Blues, it's all nostalgia. Way back when The Grey Wolves came out with Punishment around twenty years ago the cliche and cheese levels were already ridiculously high. Not to diss that record, it sounds great, but it was a many times copied xerox that degraded the original image. I have a love for the style, why else would I be here, but wouldn't try to kid myself that it exists as anything other than a quaint and harmless museum piece.
It could be said almost about anything associated with any human creation. What is the living genre and what is the noise museum.
Some people look for freshness of avantgarde - the vanguard forces who got some idea first and did something nobody (supposedly) did before. Yet it rarely stops there. Consumer simply get bored and jaded when he is not entertained enough. Ideas and substance itself is not enough, but there needs to be always something "new". And often the new is not enough - if someone doesn't come up with new terms and manifestos.
While I fully agree and admit some of the problems of consumption of "average genre products" - be it punk, metal, power electronics, art in general or whatever.... I don't think such problems are non-existent among those who obsessively look for "new". Their consumption and hobby may not be "power electronics", but constant seek of "new" or "revolutionary" approaches may blind from what lies behind material. Their answer to presented material is gut reaction to surface, not being really interested what the piece ACTUALLY is or what lies behind material.
I would believe, power electronics is no more what it used to be. But there are still so many people who has pushed the sound and substance beyond what was done or what was possible to do in... lets say 1985. It's up to debate can many of these be called "power electronics", yet it's like (yet again) punk or metal - where the new approaches of genres have very little if anything to do with the original form. Some people approach the music as shallow replicas of the past, some manage to add either new sound or substance and some go further, where there is very little, if any real similarities to Whitehouse, Ramleh or such.
I see in all sorts of music, they get re-labeled based on some vague "new thing". You know, just about every year you get some new genre of grime, dubstep, crabcore, or whatever... Single new idea and it gets new genre name. Luckily within PE, there has been possible to re-invent it little by little without need to always call it something else. This nevertheless results that a lot of people wouldn't give flying fuck about what interesting things have happened since "genre died".
Of course, it's not really problem of mine, since I'm happy to admit a lot of things I like to listen to, are not to be labeled among innovative art, but really just the gutter trash that will still inspire few wankers.
Regarding my spiteful little comment about nostalgia, I am not talking about "power electronics" or any other kind of genre -- that's an altogether different discussion. I am simply saying that band reunions are hardly ever valid or necessary. They never bring anything new to the table, and they never are as good as they used to be. All that is left is nostalgia, and I see no intrinsic value in that.
My favourite bands are usually the ones who split up hating each other, with members refusing to ever talk to each other afterwards.
Music evolution is happening at a faster pace than ever before
there is Ramleh material on spotify, both old material and later material
Maybe it was just the British PE scene that died back in the '80s & now the same guys are trying to live off their past otherwise no one would give a shit. Kind of hard to believe that for so long they had no interest in PE then all of a sudden, they do.
yeah maybe ... but if they want & can do good PE right now why not ?
personally I think this is the third greatest moment for PE.
many kick ass releases and, more than anything, several project who are developing personal concepts.
of course there are tenths of useless projects, but my idea on this is to just avoid them and focus on the good stuff.
there are copies, there are uninspired projects, but there are many that stand out and are not ripping of neither the first wave nor the second 80s/90s stuff.
personally I still enjoy several brit combos (con-dom, grey wolves, content nullity, shift, ironfistofthesun, etc.) and I think it is a matter of taste.
to me Punishment was a classic record in sound and visuals... although earlier stuff suits more my tastes.
I think it always depends on what you look for in a genre/environment.
I have been listening to the genre for over 2 decades and I still get hard ons for several newcomers, so I will keep on being focused on that until there will be no longer erections, something that happened with other scenes I have been into.
ah, the beauty of 'different tastes' lol
Quote from: Tommy Carlsson on January 18, 2012, 08:36:44 PM
I am simply saying that band reunions are hardly ever valid or necessary.
With Ramleh it wasn't really a reunion. They were having a hard time finishing an album towards the end of the 90s (and the lack of interest in their amazing work of that era must have been demoralising) so took a break for a few years as everyone had other projects anyway.
The live rock version with drums of the final track on Valediction is I think superior, although I've listened to those PE style discs a lot and Guidelines is sounding better every play. I think I have listened to Be Careful What You Wish For well over 100 times and hear something new every time.
Everything about Ramleh is psychedelic in the extreme to my mind. I'm sure there is an alternative universe where they are as big as the Beatles, and their unfinished Twins album, like the Beach Boys' Smile, will one day appear. Evidence of alternate universe: hordes of teenage girls reposting Ramleh artwork on their tumblrs. WTF? http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/you+people+are+poison
anyway i don't like most PE now but still like 80's 90's europe & america PE fuck yeah!
Quote from: bitewerksMTB on January 20, 2012, 12:12:29 AM
Maybe it was just the British PE scene that died back in the '80s & now the same guys are trying to live off their past otherwise no one would give a shit. Kind of hard to believe that for so long they had no interest in PE then all of a sudden, they do.
There is a typically British and not a little bit snooty attitude that PE starts and ends in Britain. It's the same with football. Brits still imagine, or want to imagine, that they are a world class football nation even when they haven't won shit in almost 50 years. They just can't accept when others take on their inventions and do it better than them. Someone described it to me years ago as Post Colonoial Stress Disorder. A very accurate description IMO. It's quaint. Sometimes cute, sometimes sad and almost always counterproductive.
ha...im staying well out of this one!
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on January 21, 2012, 07:09:04 PM
There is a typically British and not a little bit snooty attitude that PE starts and ends in Britain. It's the same with football. Brits still imagine, or want to imagine, that they are a world class football nation even when they haven't won shit in almost 50 years. They just can't accept when others take on their inventions and do it better than them. Someone described it to me years ago as Post Colonoial Stress Disorder. A very accurate description IMO. It's quaint. Sometimes cute, sometimes sad and almost always counterproductive.
I was the author of 'Bang Out Of Order' well over ten years ago, although I didn't have anything to do with the online bootleg and thought it worked better as an anonymous pamphlet with reprints of rare early 80s material. I remember writing a ridiculously provocative line in the hastily-written afterword there about Britain being ahead of Europe culturally: it was meant to be a joke, a kind of parody of PE extremism. I also wrote over-the-top abuse of Stereolab, Breathless, Taint and Deathpile, none of which was supposed to be taken seriously.
Don't know many people who think the UK is great nowadays. It's a fucking shithole, and I prefer being just about anywhere else in Europe even if this is my home country. OK, maybe not Belgium.
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on January 26, 2012, 03:02:02 AM
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on January 21, 2012, 07:09:04 PM
There is a typically British and not a little bit snooty attitude that PE starts and ends in Britain. It's the same with football. Brits still imagine, or want to imagine, that they are a world class football nation even when they haven't won shit in almost 50 years. They just can't accept when others take on their inventions and do it better than them. Someone described it to me years ago as Post Colonoial Stress Disorder. A very accurate description IMO. It's quaint. Sometimes cute, sometimes sad and almost always counterproductive.
I was the author of 'Bang Out Of Order' well over ten years ago, although I didn't have anything to do with the online bootleg and thought it worked better as an anonymous pamphlet with reprints of rare early 80s material. I remember writing a ridiculously provocative line in the hastily-written afterword there about Britain being ahead of Europe culturally: it was meant to be a joke, a kind of parody of PE extremism. I also wrote over-the-top abuse of Stereolab, Breathless, Taint and Deathpile, none of which was supposed to be taken seriously.
Don't know many people who think the UK is great nowadays. It's a fucking shithole, and I prefer being just about anywhere else in Europe even if this is my home country. OK, maybe not Belgium.
I didn't know it was you who wrote that piece but it's not that important. I've encountered that attitude from quite a few individuals in this country and I treat it with the contempt it deserves.
The problem isn't that Brits think they live in the greatest country on Earth, the problem is knowing too well that they don't and having long given up on the place. It's part of the Post Colonial Stress Disorder. But that is another topic.
All that aside and nothing personal but Ramleh never meant much to me. No revisionist Wire interview, reunion or "going back to their roots" will change that. Quite the contrary.
Received copies today of Kleistwahr 'Myth' and 'Arsonicide' LPs. Generic cover art which I guess will continue for the next two reissues in the series. Stunning mastering and pressing, much better than this material sounded on the Vinyl on Demand box set - can hear detail I've never spotted before.
What a fucking great label Harbinger Sound is, even if he does run it in non-stop chaos and everything is years late.
Just looking at some photos of Broken Flag: A Retrospective 5xcd boxset. All cds contains excerpts of old tapes. Is it worth buying because only one tape is complete?
If you don't have complete tapes, then yes.
I have CD box as well as special edition vinyl box for sale in my store... Latter one, not very cheap.
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on January 31, 2012, 06:23:29 PM
All that aside and nothing personal but Ramleh never meant much to me. No revisionist Wire interview, reunion or "going back to their roots" will change that. Quite the contrary.
Feeling this one.
Three years ago I spent a few weeks in hospital. All I had on my iPhone to listen to were a clutch of electronic EP's - and damn near the complete works of Ramleh ...
Gutted.
I'm somehow repeating myself this weekend - but as I really like both Consumer Electronics and Ramleh - and the new releases were previously unnoticed by my dumb self - any opinions on The Great Unlearning?
I liked Circular Time, but only listened to it once.
I listened to short snippets from "The Great Unlearning" last night on a distro site like Cargo. Guitar, drums, lots of electronic-synth sounds mixed in. I haven't heard them in years so can't say how it compares to previous work. I like that cover photo!
Also, got a wild hair late last night & ordered a copy of "A Return to Slavery" once I saw that the 7" tracks were on side 2. It'll be nice to have all of that material on one record.
I very much like all the Power Electronics Ramleh I have from the Broken Flag Box, the Harbinger reissues and Valediction. Ramleh's live show in Nottingham years ago was very loud and good. But tbh I prefer the guitar/experimental more. I think 'Be Careful What You Wish For' is great and 'Circular Time' was an equally great continuation. I haven't played any teasers for the new album, but hope it is as good as that stuff.