I recently saw Swans live, and I've never been a big fan of their newer material (post Children of God). I don't hate it, but am definitely less enthusiastic about it. The show was really great and it inspired me go go home and spin my early Swans records. Filth, COP, Greed as well as the Young God EP remain some of my favorite records. Especially COP and Young God. Not much else achieves the same level of visceral, raw brutality, anger and emotion. The track "Your Property" off of the COP LP is an all time favorite and has been somewhat of an anthem for me. The live album "Public Castration Is a Good Idea" is also fucking excellent and quite possibly the best live album of all time for me.
Discuss...
not listened to the swans in a dogs age.
only appreciate early stuff-mostly pre greed, holy money stuff. hated the jarboe era stuff.
later was interested to find out they used tape loops in their live sets to give a churning, disorienting quality-a comp, can't remember the name gives examples.
The live video A Long Slow Screw is about as perfect as anything can get. Jarboe is in the band by this point but don't let that put you off. Even the closing ballad between her and Gira is brutal as hell.
What their reunion stuff is like I have never heard and I don't intend to either. Fuck that.
"Public Castration..." is essential.
The first of the comeback albums "My Father..." is great. The other three triple fucking LPs have given me little interest - and some of what I heard is just flat out annoying.
I do enjoy later stuff like "White Light..." quite a bit.
I don't believe the material from the last few albums was intended for listening in studio form, but the albums exist for product to sell. That material was always intended by Gira to be heard and experienced live. I've heard a few live recordings from the last couple of tours that were crushing and fantastic. They smoke the studio versions.
sorry guys.
appreciate artists desire to develop and progress, but I like what I like.
strangely i'm a fun of lasts Swans more than early
each to their own.
my response id likely due to my tastes at the time
other times, other tastes.
equally, that an artist wants to 'progress' doesn't mean the listener wants to follow.
intellectual liking of progression does not equal emotional liking of prior/current sounds.
Got some of their stuff but rarely listen to it.. Should give it another try!
well, yes, according to my aesthetic, but add old stuff according to others.
of course what i say is more important!
Old classics are amazing but I like also Swans Are Dead live and The Seer is great one!
Quote from: Dr Alex on September 17, 2016, 10:56:22 PM
Old classics are amazing but I like also Swans Are Dead live and The Seer is great one!
there is an intense version of the sound in this live.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on September 17, 2016, 09:20:12 PM
I don't believe the material from the last few albums was intended for listening in studio form, but the albums exist for product to sell. That material was always intended by Gira to be heard and experienced live. I've heard a few live recordings from the last couple of tours that were crushing and fantastic. They smoke the studio versions.
Seen them twice on the tours on this recent stuff and both times were great for sure.
These are my personal favorites:
Public Castration Is A Good Idea
Cop
Omniscience
Body To Body, Job To Job
Children Of God
Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room
Saw the Swans in 1987 and found their schtick extremely cheesy and hammy - I was still a teenager but could tell when people were pimping out their 'pain'. Big Black were much better as a live band. I seem to have a great deal of their work, a lot of which doesn't get many plays. Body To Body, Job To Job is a terrific compilation of the Cop/Raping A Slave era material which may be actually superior to the original cuts - currently available as a bonus disc with the Filth reissue.
Holy Money and Love Of Life have some better tracks than others from the gothy Jarboe years, and I have sneaking regard for the 'Burning World' Laswell major label experiment - absolutely great and devastating Blind Faith cover on there. Reformation material has been something of a bore.
I prefer their version of Love Will Tear Us Apart to the original.
Quote from: absurdexposition on September 23, 2016, 04:47:32 AM
I prefer their version of Love Will Tear Us Apart to the original.
Me too. With respect to Ian Curtis, I don't care much for a whole lot of Joy Division.
One of my favorite albums is Public Castration. There's not a single SWANS album that I don't see value in, although I don't care for COP or FILTH or BODY TO BODY JOB TO JOB. I prefer the more dirgey stuff to the no wave stuff. And also, while the newer stuff gets on a little bit of boogie territory, I still like more than 50% of it to say the least.
I would like to point out the scraping prepared piano mixed with an atonal brass section on "You Fucking People Make Me Sick" as well as "If You..." from Michael Gira's "Drainland" for noisey material. I don't need the experimental project "Body Haters/Body Lovers" much, but it's solid too.
'body to body, job to job' is my fav... i feel the live cuts are far superior to the album versions.
but no way would i take the swans version of 'love will tear us apart' over joy division... blasphemy! then again, my sons name is ian....
ya know what kicked ass though? seeing YELLOW TEARS play as swans on halloween several years ago... awesome... i think theres vids on youtube, maybe.
Quote from: absurdexposition on September 23, 2016, 04:47:32 AM
I prefer their version of Love Will Tear Us Apart to the original.
fuck no!
Quote from: absurdexposition on September 23, 2016, 04:47:32 AM
I prefer their version of Love Will Tear Us Apart to the original.
oh no !!!
not a complete jd junkie, their studio output far outstripping live, thanks to gannet.
honestly, though, their output is so personal that covers cannot compete.now go to the jd strain.
Weird, I was just catching up with Joy Division tonight. Didn't even know Swans had done "Love..." until now. Had a listen - it's okay, not a bad version. But I'm sticking with the original. Fucking great song. It's the synth that makes it, that's what The Swans version lacks.
And going by videos, Joy Division had better taste in guitars.
I'm big fan of Joy Division but I never liked "Love Will Tear Us Apart" so much. Same with SWANS cover.
Quote from: Dr Alex on September 28, 2016, 05:05:35 PM
I'm big fan of Joy Division but I never liked "Love Will Tear Us Apart" so much. Same with SWANS cover.
agreed 100%
Quote from: Dr Alex on September 28, 2016, 05:05:35 PM
I'm big fan of Joy Division but I never liked "Love Will Tear Us Apart" so much. Same with SWANS cover.
well is the most easy listening and pop song of the band. is a singular episode of unique and indefinibile style.
Swans cover results this in a typical (and catchy in some kind of way) gloom atmosphere
love will tear us apart seems a real song that joined the two lp's
not one of the early hard tracks but not as dissipated as tracks from 2nd lp, good as they are still.
i'd agree - love will... is definitely not on my list of top JD songs....
but back to Swans.. i guess i have a soft spot for Children Of God also... only in the summertime though, weird as that is.
Saw Swans live yesterday and I must say that I really liked it. Ears are still ringing. So all the newer material is definitely better to be experienced live.
From the early Swans 'Cop/Young God' is my favourite. 'Half Life' was the first song I ever heard from them.
Quote from: cr on October 23, 2016, 04:20:34 PM
Saw Swans live yesterday and I must say that I really liked it. Ears are still ringing. So all the newer material is definitely better to be experienced live.
From the early Swans 'Cop/Young God' is my favourite. 'Half Life' was the first song I ever heard from them.
live, swans always were loud. several friends over the years have attributed hearing damage to their live shows.
early swans-' filth' even rougher than cop. sonic equivalent to the richard kern amateur films of the time
Quote from: david lloyd jones on October 24, 2016, 07:33:28 PM
live, swans always were loud. several friends over the years have attributed hearing damage to their live shows.
early swans-' filth' even rougher than cop. sonic equivalent to the richard kern amateur films of the time
First time seeing (perhaps "experiencing" is more appropriate?) Swans live: summer of -84, opening for The Fall at London Heaven (whose gloryholes Gira allegedly made good use of that night) which I believe was their first ever UK gig. Pretty much hated it then, and to this day can't get into their early phase. Seen Swans 5-6 more times over the years, as well as Gira solo. I find the current incarnation balancing the fine line between genius and tedium. For me they were at their finest around halftime; records such as
White Light...,
Love Of Life,
Omniscience. Also very partial to the drone excesses on
Soundtracks for the Blind. Have a guitar pick from a gig on the night that Gira turned 43, when he treated fans to fine cognac backstage, how cool is not that?
Quote from: post-morten on October 25, 2016, 11:50:09 PMI find the current incarnation balancing the fine line between genius and tedium.
Live 2011 was good, live 2012 was great. Haven't cared to see them since as they are often crossing over to the wrong side of that (very) fine line with the new material.
Quote from: post-morten on October 25, 2016, 11:50:09 PMFor me they were at their finest around halftime; records such as White Light..., Love Of Life, Omniscience. Also very partial to the drone excesses on Soundtracks for the Blind.
White Light is amazing.
I've seen Swans a couple of times here in Australia - I found that their new material is essentially an extension of their previous material - it's just a lot more sophisticated now. The new young blood of Swans really let Gira conduct his machine. They played Coward with their new line-up and they really brought it to life. Their on stage chemistry and performance is potent. It drips with raw aggression and sonic warfare. They really took the 'rock band' model to an unprecedented level.
I agree with topicstarter's preferences. Speaking of the key characteristics of the band's early era - stripped to the rhythmic skeleton composition approach, fierce vocal commands, percussive power, master/slave discourse and all that - I think these qualities were best captured on the "Young God" EP and "Public Castration Is A Good Idea" live record, this was probably the peak of the concept. Despite the fact that the live record features the material from the "Greed / Holy Money" era which is a sort of stepaway from the rawness of the previous records and precursory to the movement into the "Children of God" style bordering with gothic/post-punk, the live presentation of the compositions rips off the pretty arrangements they have on studio versions (piano parts, horns, etc.) and leaves an emphasis on bass/percussion. Especially the raw power of the bass is totally crushing. Gira's vocal delivery is painful and tormented, and the lyrics from the "Greed / Holy Money" era haven't yet turned into the Jarboe-influenced "gothic romance" style and were more about psychopathological delusions, self-loathing, mentally tortured oblivion, etc. It created some painful pressure in the music and especially this live performance presents this quality of the material in the most convincing manner.
As for the "Young God" EP - probably the maximum level of cruelty and horror which Swans managed to achieve in sound and concept, the introduction of metal chain beatings as the percussive element was a brilliant idea. The title track is especially insane - oppressive guitar drones, punishing chain strikes leaving a frightening echo, and Gira totally loses it and becomes a maniac during his Ed Gein impersonating vocal performance.
Of course, "Filth" and "Cop" are also absolute classics and I agree with choosing "Your Property" as one of the highlights. So many more killers though - "Clay Man", "Stay Here", "Power For Power", "Cop", "Weakling", "Half Life"...
Quote from: Necrobot on November 06, 2016, 03:33:53 PMThey played Coward with their new line-up and they really brought it to life.
Nice example of this: https://youtu.be/Z7qDzHJFD6Y
Yeah, this old classic was a frequent setlist choice during 2013 shows. Attended the one in Moscow and was really glad to hear it. But the old days nostalgia didn't go much further - I haven't heard about any other on-stage old material recollections from the band in its post-reunion phase. I remember reading an interview with Gira where he said that he decided to choose "Coward" for live revision "because it had an interesting rhythm thing going on" and afterwards went into recollections about his short story of the same title which he considers to be the one to have some worth (he's lost enthusiasm about most of his prose works, though I would disagree that "Coward" is the only one noteworthy). Anyway, as for "interesting rhythm things"... I guess there could be plenty more good choices from the "Filth / Cop / Young God" and "Greed / Holy Money" eras, wouldn't have been a bad idea for the band to pick up something to replace the role of "Coward" as the old-day-reminder since they probably stopped playing it after 2013. Even if the position is "keep the nostalgia to the minimum", some creative revision & re-arrangement work could be taken into consideration. Not that I'd be particularly happy with the band turning some tight & rough old piece such as "Stay Here" into some "blissful jam", but some other old day material could mutate into something interesting with expanded instrumentation & present-day sound techniques of the band. Take for instance the "Young God" EP - the compositions are still minimal, rough & crushing in the "Filth / Cop" manner, but a bit more sophisticated - more attention to sound design & arrangements, a bit mored advanced structures with expressive culminations, etc. Swans revised one of the tracks from the EP (I Crawled) during some of their late 90s performances, extended the piece and made it more "ecstatic", and the result was definitely convincing (it is possible to hear this version on the "Swans Are Dead" live album). So, allowing myself to dream a little bit... If the present-day Swans took the insane "Young God" composition from that EP and recreated it with their multi-layered instrumentation and wall-of-sound tendencies, the result could be totally overwhelming sound horror. This stuff couldn't be made "blissful" even if one strongly wanted to, I guess.
Despite some ironic remarks I've made above, I actually value the band's post-reunion material quite high. It utilizes the elements from various stages of the band's creative output, most of the used components are to my taste - powerful rhythmic pulse still plays a crucial role in their music like in the earliest days, soundscape constructs & texture manipulating works of the late 90s pre-hiatus "Soundtracks From The Blind" stage are also not forgotten, and the pompous multi-layered "orchestrations" of some of this album's most ambitious pieces are taken to the next level. Americana influences and the references to the early/mid-90s albums are the elements which I'm less enthusiastic about, but their placement in the overall construct is appropriate and organic. There are also cross-points with various music concepts which I have positive attitude to - psychedelic jams, rhythm-driven krautrock, "guitar symphonies" in the vein of Glenn Branca, etc. Of course, it's evident that this "dramatic rock/improv orchestrations" scheme became a niche comfort zone for the band at some point, so all the press hype talk about "innovation" should have ended after "The Seer"; "To Be Kind" was still good to my ears, but obviously "more of the same" type, and on the stage of the latest "The Glowing Man" the shtick really becomes tiresome. Maybe nothing wrong with choosing a "niche sound" if you're able to generate good ideas within' an established framework, but in most cases the exploitation thing leads towards the trivialization and dullness of what once was fresh and inspiring.
thoughts on Gira's "the consumer" book? always been curious about the content.
Quote from: collapsedhole on July 26, 2017, 05:29:11 PM
thoughts on Gira's "the consumer" book? always been curious about the content.
Reviews look promising:
"When the blurb on the back of a book features a quote from Nick Cave—the man who utilized exactly 236 different terms for vagina and masturbation in his wonderful novel The Death of Bunny Munro—calling your book repulsive, you know you have managed some kind of achievement...
The Consumer is a collection of grotesque and scatologically unsound vignettes written over a span of ten years by the cosmic guru of teeth-gnashing but melodious gothic drone, M. Gira. Like the music gifted to us by the band Swans (which Gira masterminds), the pieces in this collection tackle a wide range of topics guaranteed never to be uttered in any 19th century ladies' salon, such as rape, incest, sodomy, murder, self-mutilation, torture,cannibalism, animal cruelty, pedophilia, necrophilia, coprophagia, gang bangs, masturbation, bestiality and probably a few other indecencies guaranteed to make the tender-hearted reader blush if he or she weren't too busy squirming in their own vomit. But where Gira's music has the boon of lush and magnificent musical arrangements and utterly ear-pleasing post-punk/rock/whatever aesthetics, all we get here is words on the page, which makes for a more precarious experience.
The first half of the collection is a series of short-story-ish pieces composed in the early to mid-90's, and while several are particularly impressive pieces—such as the title story, "The Consumer, The Rotting Pig,"—all of the stories suffer from a heavy reliance on packing every sentence with disturbing imagery, which results in an over-kill of the preposition "like." In general, every story is written in a clinically distant style and relay hallucinatory threads of narrative told (usually) from the 1st person perspective of a self-loathing, mentally and physically impotent male. And while one of Swans great attributes is their mastery of repetition, here it only works well some of the time, making it difficult to distinguish any of the stories between one another.
The real pleasure for me came from the second half of the book, entitled "Various Traps, Some Weaknesses, Etc," which collects much shorter and less over-written snippets of prose penned ten years prior to the first half of the book. Many of the stories in this half feature the same titles as songs from Swans as well as lyrics, giving the impression that these writings were Gira's brainstorms for material to be better realized in musical form. While still pretty much indistinguishable from one another, these pieces are much shorter (some barely longer than a page) and can be read through in a mad dash, which gives the writing a certain heft, like riding across the back of some horrible, galactic beast rutting its way through endless dimensions of flesh, viscera and filth.
The overlying theme of this book is the way in which men and women yearn to consume one another—usually through extreme acts of sexual violence—in order to make up for their own moral and spiritual deficiencies, and Gira certainly goes about his objective correlative with a monomaniacal determination and without compromise. However, I can really only recommend this book for the most diehard of Swans fans (which, devoutly, I am) or for admirers of the most hardcore of transgressive fiction (I enjoy the occasional imbibing of the fucked-up). A profoundly unpleasant book—which is exactly the author's intent.
My friend got me the Consumer for my birthday last year and it couldn't put it down until I had read it all. Extremely vivid imagery, grotesque and horrific. Dare I say I prefer the writings of M. Gira to his music... There are pdf's of The Consumer I'm sure if a physical copy is too much to afford (thanks rich friend).
The highest recommendation for anyone, really.
Quote from: Neanderthal on August 08, 2017, 08:38:27 PM
My friend got me the Consumer for my birthday last year and it couldn't put it down until I had read it all. Extremely vivid imagery, grotesque and horrific. Dare I say I prefer the writings of M. Gira to his music...
Agreed!
Gira has described himself as writer first and sound-maker second (if at all!). You say The Sound I say my mind is devoured by the ideas to which it subscribes.
But no worries- we will always have the memory of believing our own lies!
I'm really happy that Public Castration Is A Good Idea was reissued on double vinyl. So I don't have to pay 250 € or more to listen to this greatness on physical format.
Quote from: cr on January 29, 2023, 12:16:17 PM
I'm really happy that Public Castration Is A Good Idea was reissued on double vinyl. So I don't have to pay 250 € or more to listen to this greatness on physical format.
Wow, great idea! (the reissue on double vinyl, too)
Quote from: ANDROPHILIA on September 17, 2016, 10:16:06 PMstrangely i'm a fun of lasts Swans more than early
Agreed. I think their later stuff is a lot better than their beginnings. I enjoyed The Glowing Man quite a bit!