I've seen many recycled tapes on smaller diy labels, (I'm considering doing a recycled tape release for someone myself) but I'm just wondering why I haven't seen more high profile releases outside of RRR. Does anyone know of any releases that they've enjoyed? Would you say the concensus is that they should be on commercial tapes and not just reused blanks? I realize that many people do them out of necessity- maybe they can't afford commercial duplication or don't have easy access to blanks. I guess I'm looking for examples outside of RRR where the recycled format is done for aesthetic purposes and not just out of necessity (or laziness, ha).
If they are reused blanks you just cant know about it, unless label says so. - As for aesthetic purposes, i dont get it, how it has to do with aesthetics. Neither i believe RRRecycled series was done for aesthetic reasons, but for just practical ...
I have this : https://www.discogs.com/Goat-In-The-Sign-Of-Goat/release/1342265 . Mine is on a Metallica - Ride The Lightning cs if i recall correctly.
The previous Goat on same label is also on recycled as i see on discogs image : https://www.discogs.com/Goat-Black-Noise/release/1342287
Quote from: Theodore on July 12, 2020, 12:07:21 AM
If they are reused blanks you just cant know about it, unless label says so. - As for aesthetic purposes, i dont get it, how it has to do with aesthetics. Neither i believe RRRecycled series was done for aesthetic reasons, but for just practical ...
I might very well be wrong, but didn't he release all of them in the same style (tape/handwritten name on recycled tape) so that they would all look the same, and people would me more likely to explore music they otherwise would not have?
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on July 12, 2020, 12:59:38 AM
Quote from: Theodore on July 12, 2020, 12:07:21 AM
If they are reused blanks you just cant know about it, unless label says so. - As for aesthetic purposes, i dont get it, how it has to do with aesthetics. Neither i believe RRRecycled series was done for aesthetic reasons, but for just practical ...
I might very well be wrong, but didn't he release all of them in the same style (tape/handwritten name on recycled tape) so that they would all look the same, and people would me more likely to explore music they otherwise would not have?
Dont know. But even if this is true, then the purpose is the lack of aesthetics - 'all look the same' , focus on the music - ! Which it could be better achieved by blanks released with a RRRecords cover or no cover, and no info at all other than the RRRecords stamp, isnt it ?
To me seems more, i have plenty of pre-recorded tapes, there is no interest for them, let's do something. Get rid of them by recycling, offering noise tapes on cheap price, giving less known bands opportunity to reach wider audience. Brilliant !
I do believe that early on Ron was pretty into the conceptual and artistic implications behind dubbing noise onto commercial tapes. Artists were originally asked to rework other people's music for their submissions so the recycled theme was very deliberately aesthetic. But the element of offering these cheap, uniform and consistently available samples of artists' work was always an equally important part of the series. I think over time he became far more interested in that side of things and the platform it offered people than anything else.
Quote from: Theodore on July 12, 2020, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on July 12, 2020, 12:59:38 AM
Quote from: Theodore on July 12, 2020, 12:07:21 AM
If they are reused blanks you just cant know about it, unless label says so. - As for aesthetic purposes, i dont get it, how it has to do with aesthetics. Neither i believe RRRecycled series was done for aesthetic reasons, but for just practical ...
I might very well be wrong, but didn't he release all of them in the same style (tape/handwritten name on recycled tape) so that they would all look the same, and people would me more likely to explore music they otherwise would not have?
Dont know. But even if this is true, then the purpose is the lack of aesthetics - 'all look the same' , focus on the music - ! Which it could be better achieved by blanks released with a RRRecords cover or no cover, and no info at all other than the RRRecords stamp, isnt it ?
To me seems more, i have plenty of pre-recorded tapes, there is no interest for them, let's do something. Get rid of them by recycling, offering noise tapes on cheap price, giving less known bands opportunity to reach wider audience. Brilliant !
This sounds right. While I think that lack of an aesthetic is still an aesthetic, there are definitely strong pragmatic reasons behind what he does.
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on July 12, 2020, 03:17:44 AM
While I think that lack of an aesthetic is still an aesthetic
Ehm ?! Lack of an aesthetic is just what the words mean. If not, then we enter into the 'abstract' zone where words loose their meaning, everyone can say everything and be 'right' , and communication becomes mission impossible. Like people looking a monochrome 'painting' and discussing what they 'see' . I admit i lack of such 'intelligence' to participate in such conversations. Or lack of intelligence is still intelligence ? And if yes, how much of ? Maybe more than without lack ? Haha. See ? - Lack of an aesthetic may be by choice, option, in purpose, a statement, yes. That doesnt make it 'aesthetic' .
From memory, I think people came into his shop and more or less dumped batches of these pre-recoded tapes, so he just used these. Hence several different batches... Often bits of the original recording are left at the ends... red tape over the original label and marker pen... Hence the idea of "recycling" rather than just putting them in the trash. I think he also did stuff to vinyl records, damaging the surface... etc.
Quote from: Rubby on July 11, 2020, 10:53:03 PMI've seen many recycled tapes on smaller diy labels, (I'm considering doing a recycled tape release for someone myself) but I'm just wondering why I haven't seen more high profile releases outside of RRR. Does anyone know of any releases that they've enjoyed? Would you say the concensus is that they should be on commercial tapes and not just reused blanks? I realize that many people do them out of necessity- maybe they can't afford commercial duplication or don't have easy access to blanks. I guess I'm looking for examples outside of RRR where the recycled format is done for aesthetic purposes and not just out of necessity (or laziness, ha).
I've seen the use of already recorded tapes mostly in german underground black metal or artists 'bootlegging' their own releases for private buyers / trades. There would be recordings of old german radio stations after the music ended, or on the entire B-side. Grausamkeit did this too. But this is probably not what you mean by 'high profile'?
Quote from: Rubby on July 11, 2020, 10:53:03 PMWould you say the concensus is that they should be on commercial tapes and not just reused blanks?
No. I would say the consensus is more that pro-dubbing at a factory is easier and less time consuming than dubbing tapes yourself (in real-time) on used tapes. Most labels sacrifice sound quality that way out of sheer laziness and lack of dedication.
Aside from recycled tape series I have not come across anything being done in that scale or any other entire sublabel dedicated to recycling tapes. I also don't think the recycled series can be summed up as 'only caring for aesthetics' or 'doing it out of necessity', rather as sending a message that includes both, with its strongest aspect being 'noise is taking over the commercially produced'. Which gets a bit ironic if the tapes then are not given away for free.
Harsh Noise London
If i'm not mistaken all Gracious Host releases are on recycled tapes
https://www.discogs.com/label/1715722-Gracious-Host
I would be interested to know if an artist or label has ever purposefully seeked out copies of a certain pre-recorded/pre-existing release in order to dub copies over them? Choosing the tape due to some thematic connection to the prior artist's or author's body or work, or that specific release itself (be it the album title, key words, cover art, its history etc). Almost like a ready-made approach. I would imagine this would be more of a responsive decision on the artist or label's part ("hey, I've come across x amount of copies of this release, want to do a tape based around it?") but I would appreciate the dedication if someone actively went out of their way to scoop up any and all copies of something in order to execute a certain idea - it would then also mean that anytime someone saw a copy of the original release in the wild, it would have a piggybacked association to the bastard version (and you could even potentially make your own version of the bastard copy, or even self-release it yourself). Certainly, that's a key element in Christian Marclay's artwork, hip-hop sampling and the history of collage and appropriation art, and buying countless quantities up of a certain release to then present to the public is popular with conceptual artists (be it records like The Beatles' The White Album (http://rutherfordchang.com/white.html) or, um, Jerry Maguire on video cassette (http://watch.everythingisterrible.com/?p=2143677389146422141)).
The only recycled release that I have is a VHS tape, a split between Vàg and Clive Henry (https://www.discogs.com/V%C3%A0g-Clive-Henry-Split-VHS/release/6004223). Mine's dubbed over a copy of The Godfather and the original sleeve and spine is still visible behind the separate front and back cover inserts. Tape label hasn't been altered either. I thought when I first received it that they'd chosen to use The Godfather as they would need original films/tapes of a 3 hour length (what with it being a HNW release and all), but alas, they only (!) use around 80 minutes of the tape. The remainder of the tape isn't too half bad either, I wonder if it's a popular film.
Quote from: Theodore on July 12, 2020, 06:50:55 AM
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on July 12, 2020, 03:17:44 AM
While I think that lack of an aesthetic is still an aesthetic
Ehm ?! Lack of an aesthetic is just what the words mean. If not, then we enter into the 'abstract' zone where words loose their meaning, everyone can say everything and be 'right' , and communication becomes mission impossible. Like people looking a monochrome 'painting' and discussing what they 'see' . I admit i lack of such 'intelligence' to participate in such conversations. Or lack of intelligence is still intelligence ? And if yes, how much of ? Maybe more than without lack ? Haha. See ? - Lack of an aesthetic may be by choice, option, in purpose, a statement, yes. That doesnt make it 'aesthetic' .
Haha, good points. I don't think the inverse works for everything (obviously it doesn't with intelligence, as you pointed out). However, in regards to aesthetics (and selection of album art/presentation seems to be an aesthetic choice), I think that actively deciding to not use traditional aesthetic form in favor of a decidedly different look is still an aesthetic decision. RRR releases have a distinctive appearance, and I know them when I see them.
Way back when, promo cassettes were sent out in huge numbers, and they were often on decent quality chrome tapes. Major labels had sizeable budgets for this sort of advertising. If you got on one of their lists, you probably got on many lists. Radio, college radio, record stores, etc. It would have been easy, and smart, to ask friends around the industry to hand over their supply rather than sending them to landfill. Everyone wins. I don't know how RRRon worked this series. It's surprising more labels didn't do this. Using your resources at the utmost. Not something common then, but especially now.
Quoterather than sending them to landfill
Indeed. I began pondering this when, through my job, I recently gained access to a few hundred commercial tapes and used blanks that are otherwise destined for disposal. Seems a great shame not to turn them into Recycled Tapes as we know them.
Interesting replies, to be frank the subversive nature of RRRon's work never dawned on younger me, I simply thought it was funny and convenient. Another thing I've noticed from years of listening to the Recycled series- I can barely, if at all, detect any bleed through of the original tape. Distortion yes, and naturally when the noise ends and Phil Collins kicks in, sure. But I have noticed more decreased fidelity than faint traces of New Kids on the Block in the background.
I deliberately use recycled tapes for most of my self released stuff.
I've dubbed hundred of tapes on tapes made for teaching the Bible to kids for instance. It was even cooler when I used some of that batch of tapes for my older black metal band.
I do it for aesthetics, plain ethics, sound, and also because I had enough experiences of duplication plants messing with the mixes, cutting the beginning of a song on one side, etc... Also, I believe that the few people who ask for my stuff may enjoy knowing it was all made at home for them. It takes a considerable amount of time but I also personally really dislike when buying something from the underground feels the same as ordering whatever random commodity I need from Amazon. But I guess I'm just a nostalgic fuck who still daydreams of when he was ordering records through phone calls and wasn't surprised when a package came with a handwritten note. Whenever I get a tape with a plain-colored shell and 1/2 or A and B scratched on it by what seems to be a handicapped 7-year-old, it drives me nuts. However, if I do get a recycled tape with some extra material left on the dubbed side or the B side, I begin wondering about it, and it greatly enhances my experience of the release or "relation" with the artist.
Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on July 13, 2020, 12:04:28 AM
I deliberately use recycled tapes for most of my self released stuff.
I've dubbed hundred of tapes on tapes made for teaching the Bible to kids for instance. It was even cooler when I used some of that batch of tapes for my older black metal band.
Yes, i have some of that Bible cassettes from you. Really funny is when i saw that Andy Bolus used some of them too for his Evil Moisture Live box. Their 'availability' made me question either french loosing faith or catechism is done with podcasts these days, heh. - On one of his tapes something really weird happens, for 30 sec, some minutes in, the bible speach appears and is mixed with the music ! The only explanation i can give is this cant be an accident, unless he accidently played another bible tape through a mixer used for dubbing at the moment. Happens on both channels of one side, and it fits, sounds good !
Quote from: CannibalRitual on July 12, 2020, 10:29:20 AM
Harsh Noise London
Yes, these do recycled tapes. They operate through a Facebook page of the same name and have done gigs in London.