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Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 14, 2020, 10:00:56 AM
Just something that Yokota sent me when project was active. It is possible I may do more "obscure Japanese stuff" episodes, since there are really some goodies like this. I came across advance promo tape sent by guy of Building of Gel, that had BOG / Mo-Te collaboration song. I never heard such releases would have been made, but tracks is really solid harshness.
Time has changed so much, that sending out tapes to guys you correspond with, are barely "a thing", I'd assume. This seemed to be quite common back in the day. Tape trades, sending some tracks of album you were working with. Some recordings from gigs or such. Now, when distribution is often digital, it is perhaps so much easier that it does make concept of "unpublished" a bit different.
If published work and unpublished work differs only by that someone gets file either via website or from.. you? Practically it doesn't exists in same way as physical tape - that has cover, proper distribution as opposed to someone just dubbing you some stuff and perhaps hand written details what the stuff is and that it may or may not come out sometime later.
Finally the question - do you share "unpublished" works with others? Is there some point of it. Either not sharing to not want to be "tainted" by outsiders opinions or exactly opposite - to even have creative feedback about something. Be it material itself, mastering, or other details. What is the difference of "a release" compared to stuff you just sort of leaked into public without treating it as a release?
Is there some mystery of existence of material, that is not release - but it exists.
From personal perspective, of course I could say that owning
a release, is of course something I like - but also having tape with stuff like mentioned in quote on top of message.. some possibly unpublished works of artists, that has even further mythical aura. For listener it may be really exciting to hear differences of things like alternative early mix of release. Songs that were possibly rejected from album - for not being really weak, but just not fitting into spirit or duration of album. Comp tracks submitted to releases that never came out and tracks are in hands of couple friends -and leaking them a bit further may not be such a bad thing. Almost like cultivation of -actual involvement- in the scene. Things that wouldn't be there to buy. Things that one must know and interact with people.
Occasionally will do a handful of home dubbed tapes with just handwritten track lists etc ,or one off handmade things of live shows that have only just happened for example as a gift, or of different unreleased tracks for friends. It's like when I used to get mix tapes made for me in school or make them for others, it's the same feeling of having something personalised for you or just a close group of those 'in the know'. It's Elitist and in a way exclusionary, and that's what's good about doing things that way. There is little mystique in anything these days so I love that kind of thing.
I'm sure they'll pop up on some CV boosting label eventually.
Also people have to put everything on discogs and some fools will put it in their want list even though it will be hardly available for anyone else....
I stopped doing it on tape around 2011 or 2012, occasionally would then do it on CDr because it is kind of a listen an destroy type thing. Mostly will just file share now because it is simply easier.
I still do that, send tapes of personal stuff that's unpublished, stuff that exists but doesn't fit in a particular release because its content detracts too much from any release I've made so far, etc. I make covers for those tapes too. And I've also got a few tapes like these from close contacts I trade with and who happen to make their own music as well.
It's not an elitist thing for me but rather something that attracted me to more underground scenes in the first place and that I really miss. I think underground noise, metal, punk, etc scenes boomed so much with the Internet and with a newer generation of people who discovered it through more "modern" means that provide quick and lazy access to everything that sharing your stuff by copying it on physical media doesn't interest many people anymore, besides the older diehards who like doing it and enjoy getting the same kind of stuff from their contacts.
Also, i've had people asking me copies of rare stuff I have (and acting like serious dickheads and lowballers about it but I guess it's a generation gap thing or something) but straight up refusing to trade for other dubs of things they have. I guess it's a thing of different mindsets, of how people get attracted to underground music too. And I find it highly ironic considering how the same people often act like the biggest fetishists and are the biggest victims of compulsive buying on Bigcartels and bragging online in latest scores threads or on Discogs. But I guess it's another issue.
You would think with bandcamp, soundcloud, etc that demos, early edits, and rehearsals would be plentiful. At least, I would. It doesn't cost anyone anything. Back then, the costs were minimal, but still, blank tapes, dubbing, preparing packages and letters, postage (often international). It required a lot more effort and time, yet they were relatively common. I guess you can reconcile that to "necessity is the mother of invention." You work with the situation at hand. I used to love getting that stuff. Not because it was exclusive or a symbol of trust and friendship, but to have insight into the creative process and some of the conversations they started. As for economics, because Discogs was previously mentioned, these type tapes were coveted as gifts. They were special. I know we don't like to think of this brutal nose culture as intimate, endearing, vulnerable, or generous in spirit, but that's how I perceived those packages. I wouldn't go as far as to say they were secret, but I know I never spoke of them with anyone. Would never sell them, copy them. To list something like that on Discogs? Discogs is also archival, not just a marketplace. The archivist in me would want to see them listed, but that's one of those deals where you ask permission. But asking permission is even rather bold. It's difficult to think in both the old way and the new way without dissonance.
I can think of two noise artists in particular who did this more than anyone else. And then there was Kawakami/Disclose who sent out so many "private" recordings that there's no way to keep track of them. If you were penpals with him, you knew you were getting demos in the mail. I don't know how he ever had time to walk away from his tape decks.
I have a friend who has done the most brutal and raw power electronics I've ever heard. It was so fucking nuts that the recording he played for me was more like a psychotic episode than an artistically stylized recording. He and I agreed that this was just too out there to even think of putting down in a format for sale. The idea of this material even being on a physical medium for sale was just absurd. It just was what it was. It was not meant to enter into consumerland.
Similarly, I have done very private material. I still release things without the internet sometimes. I send out xerox newsletters to people who get where I'm coming from. I did one release on tape that was buried in the ground, in an edition of one, with a download code if anyone ever finds it. Sometimes there is a difference between creating from a genuine place, and creating something to be easily digested by a bunch of nonchalant, apathetic pedestrians on the internet.
That said, I use bandcamp to share early things with subscribers now.
I used to do tapes and CDrs for friends, but not for anyone that would put it on discogs or soulseek.
(http://www.jliat.com/swan.jpg)
The Black Swans - original series had write protected USB Flash Drives* buried in them containing noise work**. I have about 20 of these now plus 9 triads (3 together), these have CDr disks, the latter cannot be accessed the others have usb cable access. I've also two which have buried Flash drives linked to an internal WiFi, and a couple with mp3 players and headphone outs, these also need usb power. One idea was also to bury these, however now i kind of dont like parting with them.
*sometimes difficult to get hold of (e.g. netac u208s 9 gig @ around 7 ukp) but they have a switch which physically makes them read only. The switches on SD cards do not prevent overwriting. You can also get enclosures with this for hard drives. (Icy Box) Evidently I found all Flash Drives have the write protect option on the chip, its just that most dont use this feature. Its seems now there are WORM SD and flash drives – so another possible format. WORM, (write once read many) https://www.flexxon.com/product/worm-card/ fairly expensive at present....
** These are typically 8 gig with a single MP3 of noise which are fairly large / long 120 hr pieces. (they are 32" high made from polyester resin & old computer parts...)
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on August 14, 2020, 07:17:53 PM
I did one release on tape that was buried in the ground, in an edition of one, with a download code if anyone ever finds it.
This is interesting. IMO it would be more interesting such tapes hidden in public have no info about the project. So he who finds them to have to play them. Cause i guess nowdays first reaction to such finding would be to google about the band, see if it's 'my style' etc. 'Mystery' , 'magic' is lost. - Or record spoken info at the end of the tape, even better !
An other tape -partialy- hidden in public places : https://www.discogs.com/Naufragio-RZR/release/765757
Quote from: Theodore on August 15, 2020, 01:17:34 AM
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on August 14, 2020, 07:17:53 PM
I did one release on tape that was buried in the ground, in an edition of one, with a download code if anyone ever finds it.
This is interesting. IMO it would be more interesting such tapes hidden in public have no info about the project. So he who finds them to have to play them. Cause i guess nowdays first reaction to such finding would be to google about the band, see if it's 'my style' etc. 'Mystery' , 'magic' is lost. - Or record spoken info at the end of the tape, even better !
An other tape -partialy- hidden in public places : https://www.discogs.com/Naufragio-RZR/release/765757
Few years back a local noiser did a similar thing and it was mistaken for an IED by a passerby, likely due to "manifesto" attached. Resulting in citywide shutdown, bomb squad flown in and artist in court, heh! https://www.discogs.com/LSD-Fundraiser-StreetNOISE/release/10494846
Quote from: Sadomaniac on August 15, 2020, 10:59:15 AM
Quote from: Theodore on August 15, 2020, 01:17:34 AM
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on August 14, 2020, 07:17:53 PM
I did one release on tape that was buried in the ground, in an edition of one, with a download code if anyone ever finds it.
This is interesting. IMO it would be more interesting such tapes hidden in public have no info about the project. So he who finds them to have to play them. Cause i guess nowdays first reaction to such finding would be to google about the band, see if it's 'my style' etc. 'Mystery' , 'magic' is lost. - Or record spoken info at the end of the tape, even better !
An other tape -partialy- hidden in public places : https://www.discogs.com/Naufragio-RZR/release/765757
Few years back a local noiser did a similar thing and it was mistaken for an IED by a passerby, likely due to "manifesto" attached. Resulting in citywide shutdown, bomb squad flown in and artist in court, heh! https://www.discogs.com/LSD-Fundraiser-StreetNOISE/release/10494846
For the longest time, there was someone (I believe it was the artist) selling the only remaining copy not confiscated by police for some large sum of money, in an attempt to cover the legal fees associated with the case.
It's up on Bandcamp for anyone wanting to hear it.
Years ago, when there were more CD stores, there was a "movement" of some trendy and small sorts of people putting their CDs in Goodwill, Salvation Army, CD stores etc. I think there was even a big thread about this on the old Troniks board.
Good post, Mikko.
I, personally, just release everything in with rather unorganized release of material. Sometimes, a snippet of a track. Rarely, a full track. But never a complete album.
Why this approach? I figure, it is a new era of releasing material.
I figure, just keep going down this road. Even if it doesn't seem to make sense, in 10 - 15 years, it will surely ads up to something that will be seen in a new light.
You could say, in this manner, my approach is very UNDERGROUND.
EDIT:
Maybe someday I will go physical and actually try to formally release something.
It would be cool to be apart of the larger Noise scene, rather than mere active observer.
I always wanted to perform at a live Noise festival.
It has always been a fantasy of mine.
Time will tell if this ever happens.
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on August 14, 2020, 07:17:53 PM
I have a friend who has done the most brutal and raw power electronics I've ever heard. It was so fucking nuts that the recording he played for me was more like a psychotic episode than an artistically stylized recording. He and I agreed that this was just too out there to even think of putting down in a format for sale. The idea of this material even being on a physical medium for sale was just absurd. It just was what it was. It was not meant to enter into consumerland.
Similarly, I have done very private material. I still release things without the internet sometimes. I send out xerox newsletters to people who get where I'm coming from. I did one release on tape that was buried in the ground, in an edition of one, with a download code if anyone ever finds it. Sometimes there is a difference between creating from a genuine place, and creating something to be easily digested by a bunch of nonchalant, apathetic pedestrians on the internet.
That said, I use bandcamp to share early things with subscribers now.
I used to do tapes and CDrs for friends, but not for anyone that would put it on discogs or soulseek.
That sounds bad fucking ass. That reminds me of a very experimental 'album' I did before, that I was the only one to hear.
It sounded like a psychotic blend of Stalaggh, Intolitarian, with a DASH of GRUNT.
Too bad, I never shared it. The material is forever lost. It sounded like screeching screams, and just utter destruction, and smashing of instruments, and banging on things, and breaking things in kind of a psychotic rage, with deep growls.
Truly weird shit. Wish I still had it.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on August 15, 2020, 04:57:32 PM
Years ago, when there were more CD stores, there was a "movement" of some trendy and small sorts of people putting their CDs in Goodwill, Salvation Army, CD stores etc. I think there was even a big thread about this on the old Troniks board.
Could just copy a Cannibal Corpse cover and put your CD in the shelf. Some idiot will blind buy it and complain it's only noise
Quote from: theotherjohn on August 15, 2020, 10:06:42 PM
Or in my case, I bought the one on the left by mistake and it was full of regular songs...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/JLPOBCover.jpg) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Yoko_Ono_POB.jpg)
(http://jliat.com/ntwicn/vol25.JPG)
Anything that creates MYSTERIOUS is rhe most rewarding experience in most satisfying result in the digital age.
Most things have become lame by being and holding to certain formulaic standards that no longer fit, similar to what other posters have pointed out.
I was always most influenced by the oddities one finds on the "dark web" which are not fit for creative consumption.
Anything else, with few exceptions, becomes less engaging.
Mystery is the most exciting element to me, and I can find myself becoming extremely fucking bored otherwise.
There are some literal creative fucking MASTERPIECES on the "dark net," and these artists will never get proper credit for it in a consumerist sense, and that's not even the point of it.
That is so far removed from the actual point of it. So to answer the thread question, yes, there is an extreme appeal / motivation behind this ethos.
And unless you're apart of a particular clique, its appeal will be lost on everyone else. By design.
Edit: Never mind my stupid answer earlier.
Yes I do, and it would be weird to me if someone doesn't. Maybe some of the guys that only shit out stuff after stuff with little quality control or because their stuff will be released by other labels anyways, but it would be weird to me not to share also the smaller stuff to a more limited audience. There is a big difference in time and money spent on a work that has more copies vs. only a few copies. Also there seems to be more creative freedom in the later, not having to worry if it's good enough to release, because the audience is so limited. Not that it means releasing subpar or shoddy work, the bad stuff is already weeded out in the initial post-recording process, but it doesn't have to be at the level of a proper release.
Some stuff that is good, but maybe not enough for a proper release ends up to Bandcamp so non-noise people or those without cassette deck can get an idea what I do. It's nice to be isolated in the clique of the world of noise and all, but sometimes it's also good to be able to present your work to other people that are interested in what you do.
pretty much my whole soundcloud is this sort of 'unpublished' sharing :) https://soundcloud.com/cementimental
Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on August 15, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on August 14, 2020, 07:17:53 PM
I have a friend who has done the most brutal and raw power electronics I've ever heard. It was so fucking nuts that the recording he played for me was more like a psychotic episode than an artistically stylized recording. He and I agreed that this was just too out there to even think of putting down in a format for sale. The idea of this material even being on a physical medium for sale was just absurd. It just was what it was. It was not meant to enter into consumerland.
Similarly, I have done very private material. I still release things without the internet sometimes. I send out xerox newsletters to people who get where I'm coming from. I did one release on tape that was buried in the ground, in an edition of one, with a download code if anyone ever finds it. Sometimes there is a difference between creating from a genuine place, and creating something to be easily digested by a bunch of nonchalant, apathetic pedestrians on the internet.
That said, I use bandcamp to share early things with subscribers now.
I used to do tapes and CDrs for friends, but not for anyone that would put it on discogs or soulseek.
That sounds bad fucking ass. That reminds me of a very experimental 'album' I did before, that I was the only one to hear.
It sounded like a psychotic blend of Stalaggh, Intolitarian, with a DASH of GRUNT.
Too bad, I never shared it. The material is forever lost. It sounded like screeching screams, and just utter destruction, and smashing of instruments, and banging on things, and breaking things in kind of a psychotic rage, with deep growls.
Truly weird shit. Wish I still had it.
Yeah, I'm embarrassed to say that I've lost a lot of work because I had it on an external hard drive but never got around to back it up on CDR or anything. I know the feeling. There is stuff I did 20 years ago that only existed on 5 CDrs given to friends, never even kept a back up.
There has always been an instinct to infiltrate. I used to put copies of my zine inside specific books inside book stores, to mess with the context of someone who bought the book. To some extent, CDRs too, but I never expected those to be kept without any luck.