Special Interest

OUT NOW!
EPISODE #1 - Ilkka Vekka of HAARE
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6dcTRiWDE
Audio only: https://whitecentipedenoise.buzzsprout.com/ (will be available on all major platforms by tomorrow)

White Centipede Noise has launched a podcast, with emphasis on video interviews with a wide range of artists, labels, and individuals close to WCN, and will be published on YouTube, as well as all major podcast platforms. The vision is to follow the invaluable tradition of written zine interviews as a means to spread and archive vital underground information, but using the modern format of video/"podcasts" to expand the limitations of written interviews, allowing personality and spontaneity to flourish. I think as fanatics of such a niche genre of music, it's quite rare that most of us are able to have in depth face-to-face conversations with others who share this passion equally, and when we are able to do so, it usually has lasting meaning. I hope to be able to capture and share the significance of such exchanges through these interviews, while remaining focused on the information the guest has to offer.

1 hour+ episodes will be posted bi-monthly. There will be no paywall for content, so it will be free and remain free for all to listen to.

Episode #2 coming in 2 weeks, featuring Erik Nystrand of CAPERS / VMS ELIT / TEAM BORO TAPES etc.

Great format and content. Looking forward to more. Nice work, Oskar!

Yeah, i enjoyed it. Well done ! Since this is only the beginning, cant wait for what's next. Yes, written interviews are invaluable. These 'live' ones are something fresh. Now i tasted it, i want more. Works better than 'radio' podcasts -for me- , 'radio' doesnt keep me to listen, this does . I guess face matters [?] .

There is an obstacle i can think of though. Compared to written interviews. Two actualy. I guess there will be people that maybe reject interview request cause they wouldnt want their face on TV. Also others may be not as good in english oral communication compared to written form. But these are problems for the very far future. Till then, keep up ! And thanks !

Great first episode. Excited for more. Haare spent a lot of time in my tape deck during the early months of the pandemic so I'm happy to have this content available.

Wrote this in FA fb page:
Very nice addition to noise podcasts. White Centipede Noise podcast #1 acknowledges the 20+ years old drone-noise master HAARE. During this episode Vekka is name dropping some Finns that global noise scene may have not heard of. Oskar concludes that names of many new Finnish bands are so odd and difficult, that one can't really remember them.
I guess that the names are not Ahlzagailzehguh, Metgumbnerbone and Infektionsabteilung -type of difficult to pronounce or remember. It is true, that a lot of names that doesn't seem to make sense or mean anything. In this episode Haare talks about meaning of his band name and a lot of other things.
All Freak Animal's HAARE CD's are soon to be sold out, and the Industrial Recollections Haare 6xCD box set also couple dozen remains! Don't be late. Freak Animal has been drumming the greatness of Haare for couple decades, but it seems that his work now growingly more appreciated. When pressings are gone, they are gone.

Great news, another noise podcast! The more the better, and now we can also have some EU noise talks and interviews! All hails to WCN!

Quote from: Theodore on October 19, 2021, 04:40:52 AM
There is an obstacle i can think of though. Compared to written interviews. Two actualy. I guess there will be people that maybe reject interview request cause they wouldnt want their face on TV. Also others may be not as good in english oral communication compared to written form. But these are problems for the very far future. Till then, keep up ! And thanks !

I'm not WCN so I can't speak for him, but if someone doesn't want to show its face it could be omitted by showing art, tapes, releases, gear etc. and still have a good 'video'?

Also personally, how much as I like to read magazines and written interviews, for me I really like to hear the voice of the artist itself in stead of reading an interview but still have my own voice attached to it. If that makes any sense.

This is great, thank you for starting this project up.  I did not know much about Haare but I do now.

Excellent stuff ! Good quality (content but also sound and video) + i appreciate that Oskar kept the cut & paste
aesthetic alive in the visuals.

Can't wait to see what the future brings.

Quote from: Theodore on October 19, 2021, 04:40:52 AM
Yeah, i enjoyed it. Well done ! Since this is only the beginning, cant wait for what's next. Yes, written interviews are invaluable. These 'live' ones are something fresh. Now i tasted it, i want more. Works better than 'radio' podcasts -for me- , 'radio' doesnt keep me to listen, this does . I guess face matters [?]

I agree. I'm a visual person and I think thats a big reason why I have a hard time listening to podcasts.

Great work, WCN. Looking forward to the next one.

I always try to listen to podcasts, but fail all the time and end up not following any. I don't have enough free time to dedicate to listening to a podcast, but this one I managed to watch in its entirety (in two times).
After checking a few minutes it was clear that there was something good going on. Loved the the content and the natural flow in the conversation. Great work!
Been following Haare the best I can and was always a project that sparked my attention. It was nice to know more about him!

Really nice work! Looking forward to more.

Quote from: W.K. on October 19, 2021, 02:00:32 PM

I'm not WCN so I can't speak for him, but if someone doesn't want to show its face

What gimp masks are for.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 19, 2021, 11:34:45 AM
I guess that the names are not Ahlzagailzehguh, Metgumbnerbone and Infektionsabteilung -type of difficult to pronounce or remember.

In fairness, you'd have to place the above 3 against a backdrop of other projects coming from the same region. Against other US & UK projects, the names Ahlz and Metgumbnerbone genuinely do stand out. This may not be the same for a poor English speaker trying to distinguish one long string of similar lookin' syllables from another long string of similar lookin' syllables.

Personally, I refuse to countenance any project with fewer than 10 syllables in the name.


The podcast was actually better than I expected. WCN coming with the hard questions. That's right, no pussy footing, cough up those top 10!

Episode 2 with Erik Nystrand of CAPERS (and VMS ELIT!) is out now on YouTube: https://youtu.be/jNsfSFZeMss

Episodes will air on WEEKLY basis from here on out, every Monday at 18:00 CET

Lots of great stuff recorded already, tons more in the pipeline.

Very very strong episode. Articulated a lot of thoughts and opinions that I share 100% in a very reasonable fashion. Good to see and hear people who can discuss this stuff deeply and passionately while still behaving like adults. Amazing to hear someone pronounce Monde Bruits properly also, or just about. Well done WCN.

Great episode. This is important stuff.

Yes! Again a great episode. Nystrand's longing for "wild unpredictable savages" was one of the highlights.

Thank you all, really glad to hear people are enjoying it!

This could go off slightly and laps at threads beaten like some ill-fated equine but I was interested in Mr. Nystrand's remarks on the sense of pumping shit out into a void and the comorbid sense that words matter. I'd just like to put in a good word for silence. Freedom in a vacuum, a fine and dearly departed label. People are definitely out there, listening, taking notes (maybe not literally but yes taking notes is probably a good way of putting it), appreciating and evaluating, constantly, or at least very regularly. The visible discourse has I suppose cheapened to an extent, which may in some cases curtail the occasional urge to vent on one platform or another but there are also the swings of the pendulum and the no less to be appraised sense that balance may be needed, here and there. Dean Glaister once opined eloquently on the subject, then put the money where the mouth had very determinedly absconded.

A side note on Capers- hadn't even heard about the project till the Usagi reissue but am here ready and willing to agree with any sentiments that would place it a cut above. I forget the adjective used in the interview but the specificity of the endeavor comes through loud and clear, if not - yet - inclining this listener to speak for any inherent er inherentness.

Very good episode!

There is some "oddities", what may be caused that I still today relate to "noise" in sort of overall umbrella term as opposed to lets say, pure harsh noise. There is a lot of things that I see differently, like the talk about "recent uprise of noise CD's"...  I usually conclude that yeah, it is great and I can see what people mean by it, but isn't it something that all the post-industrial-noise labels in europe has been doing all the time, since CD was popularized? Like in Finland, you got FA, F&V, who always did CD's. Even when CD's were supposedly "uncool", but always outsold vinyl and tape by numbers. You got Cold Spring, Tesco, OEC,... It seems as if the american pure noise scene dominates the discourse, while noise was being made by others all these years? Rest of the world, CD was always there? It never went away. Even in the years when people seem to think CD was as dead as CD (like say, 10+ years ago) can be, to me it seems like it was almost as golden years of noise CD's. One can check out how much stuff was reissued on Industrial Recollections for example. There was always demand for format and I kept recommending every label I was in touch to start making again. Especially the utmost classics being repressed. All this time, only thing what did not work out was the old style where you could put out anything, press 500-1000 and expect it to actually sell. Of course not. But edition of 200-300 noise CD's, flourished all this time if I look from my perspective and CD's were being made, also pure harsh noise.

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on November 06, 2021, 10:48:05 AM
People are definitely out there, listening, taking notes (maybe not literally but yes taking notes is probably a good way of putting it), appreciating and evaluating, constantly, or at least very regularly. The visible discourse has I suppose cheapened to an extent, which may in some cases curtail the occasional urge to vent on one platform or another but there are also the swings of the pendulum and the no less to be appraised sense that balance may be needed, here and there.

This mentioned "silence" was one reason why I stopped Special Interests magazine reviews. It felt annoying to be sometimes only guy, who's word on some specific release would be permanently immortalized on paper. If album would get, say, 10 reviews, it would be no problem to give harsh subjective criticism or praise, yet if review is perhaps only existing long lasting document... it started to feel almost as baggage. Why I would have to be "authority" to comment it? hah.. It would be more interesting if there is dialogue about the album. If not in literal sense, but in form of multiple reviews, from multiple perspectives.

For several years, I had intentional goal, to try to keep a bit more distance, to try to not be too vocal about things I like, or dislike. In favor of, ehm... "giving space" to new voices, hah.... However, I do not think giving "space" is working out if very little happens. Zines? Reviews? Analysis? Many times it seems that if discussion about noise emerges, you can bet that it is often merely excuse for worried talk about sexism and fascism or some stoooopid nonsense, as opposed to honest and passionate interest in noise.

I am pretty sure, that WCN format is something what can vitalize noise discussion and be also more. Sparking also other things, hopefully. I would assume there would be plenty of potential and also covering different sides of of genre. Even if Nystrand gets almost into existential anguish about the state of noise at times, it is most of all positive and creative interview. Recommended also for those who may have no idea what is Capers or VMS Elit.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 06, 2021, 03:28:38 PM
existential anguish about the state of noise

Haha. I am quite happy with the state of noise, but as with all things dear and close to heart, I do get passionate about it, too.

As for the CD question, I threw out some thoughts off the cuff, and you're certainly right there. The format was never gone, just not in style in my little corner of the scene.

Very glad people enjoyed the episode, and that it sparked some discussion! I certainly didn't expect the response.

almost existential anguish. That is good quality in man ;)
Showing that it is not "just noise", "who cares", but it is more.

In Capers piece, there was talk about lack of journalism. I think its not only journalism, but it feels that there is lack of communication in general? That several people have commented noticing how things are regressed more to emojis and pic posting. Perhaps something slightly connected to new episode, where is talk about "bandcamp culture" and so on.

Some years ago, I talked with some friends and mentioned that I will start to send feedback to people directly. Positive or negative. No matter do they want to hear it. hah. To give impression that it is not just a void, but there is a bit of resonation here. I feel it is absolutely positive. There is so much unused potential, but not sure if it will flourish if there is apathy and "who cares its just noise" -type attitude. In my opinion, it is not "just" noise.

3rd episode here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBLYczO8NWg

Listened the "premiere", but did not watch the video. Just listened.
Right after hearing it I was trying to find my favorite Kjostad, "Glacial Lake" CD, but could not find, so Heat Signature CD on WCN went on CD player.

I like what I hear on podcast, but also wonder if there further depth.. or focus that could be applied? Most of these guys have already such a vast "careers" so to say, that focus on something particular could be useful. Everybody seemed to feel live noise is the crucial thing. So more focus on stories and reasons of touring could have been nice. Like what it actually gives. What has been good, what has been lame. There was some of that. Actually even good amount, but seems there could have been vastly more. I have talked to some guys who are utterly vocal about live shows. That there is so unique spirit when somewhat like-minded people meet face to face and this energy usually leads to things. Something other, something even life-altering things, not just "bandcamp friday". Even the existence of entire basement/livingroom touring thing. Something that just doesn't really exists here.

Anekdotes, the live culture differences of.. say fests vs basement/livingroom shows, what it really is what is the key driving motivation on live noise etc. Or some other particular topic that can be dealt slightly deeper, if having handful or core "themes" or "topics" instead of going through decades worth of "careers". There was good stuff there, no complaints. Only... suggestions.

One thing I mentioned already was the talk about downfall of noise about 10 years ago? I often hear people talk about it and I have commented that to me it seems a bit like US-centric view. Stefan Aune did comment that is the case. Talk was about the american local scenes, and situation there, not about noise globally.

It seems to me, that wide variety of noise scene remains often unnoticed. You look someone like Urashima single handedly doing more noise vinyl than you could ever afford to buy? Of course a lot of it tends to be reissues. Or the supposedly quiet times and from European perspective, there was so much stuff happening. For me easiest to see local, so it would be clear Finland would be kicking in the currently flourishing new era of noise. Vanhala and so on pushing things to next level in harsh noise. F&V putting out probably 20 titles a year. Not really pure harsh noise, but neither power electronics in the traditional sense. Just as few examples. I was so busy with shows and releases flooding in all day everyday, there didn't seem to time to notice there would be "slow time" with noise? Especially if talking about accepting less than pure harsh noise, the kind of wonky and bizarre stuff, it would probably make one wonder if slightly US-centric approach in noise is, what may prevent one seeing MAAA, Umpio, Purgist, Mutant Ape, or something like that churning noise blast...? My assumption is that usually slow times in noise is almost purely subjective experience and looking to what others are doing, one sees a lot.

I've heard people speculating things are somehow slowing down in Finland. Bizarre Uproar, Grunt, Sick Seed, Vanhala and such are not playing gigs and so on. Well, perhaps we are not, but there is dozens of new things, gigs happening all the time. Nothing is slowing down, it could probably require someone to: Write about it. Acknowledging something, it has some results.

It was this podcast above that made me listen Heat Signature CD. Deserved attention and deserved reissue. Full blast harsh noise from contemporary harsh head guys. They have the taste, and skills to do the saturated, blown-up, hard and active noise always on the move. 30 mins duration, something that will lure you to push play instantly when disc ends. I listened it actually 3 times in row. It made me want to check out more. Also some of the releases these guys talked about.

Another good and interesting episode. I'm struck with how a lot of the answers given around the question of 'what bugs you about noise today?' - saturation, constant disposable release culture, impersonal approaches - were being said about the scene a good 10-15 years ago which, I suppose, is probably around about the era these guys (and myself) would be looking at when thinking about what has been lost or has changed since. Now it's bandcamp, URL links and funnily enough ltd to 20 tapes that immediately 'sell out' to the same group of friends whereas then it was the same issues but with CDR, forums and download blogs. It's no disagreement or criticism of anyone involved with this episode, just interesting how things looked then vs now and what is really different or really the same. I certainly think that what was criticised in the early/mid 2000s now looks to have a lot of the characteristics we think are missing today - at least in that it was a lot more discursive, had perhaps a comparatively high level of diversity in approaches compared to now and took place across a wider range of smaller platforms rather than just 2 or 3 dominant social media corporations. And sure enough, some of the older guard of that time would be vocal about how THAT stuff had diluted the scene they were familiar with. It's not a clean cut comparison by any measure but I think there is some truth to it. Proof as always that new things change how we look at the old as much as is true in reverse. Similarly, the essence of what makes stuff good/bad is probably always going to be the same no matter what.  

It definitely seems like there are some recurring themes popping up in each episode now. I suspect this is more to do with the shared interests and views that naturally happen among the kind of people Oskar is speaking to - they've clearly been in contact and bonding over similar ideas for a long time so it's unavoidable. But even so I wonder how much it might inform Oskar's spot on comment that noise is so small that once 2 people say the same thing it can be taken as some giant ideological feeling within the entire culture?! I'm sure the podcast will inform some of that but more positively I can see it hopefully becoming a catalyst for a slight increase in people feeling like it's worth them making an effort to produce something in their own image and vision.

This will go off, again, but a word in for the bandcamps. If ever the beer flu taught me a thing it is that the car is the noiseperv's best friend. Something I've often missed cause bar aforesaid learnings I'm mostly on the train. But portable format plus wheels equals match made in harsh heavenly hades. Case in point this weekend with Barstool Mountain. No tape, yet, but. Five-minute ride home but, thirty plus minutes of digitally formatted sounds, equates to exceedingly scenic route exceedingly enhanced by exceedingly blown out strains, vaguely worried but actually no not really that the damn vehicle is a continuous thirty plus stretched nigh on sixty plus minute mobile epilepsy of kingdom f-f-fucked. Feels wrong feels like I need be shitfaced puking guts to properly indulge, but, car.

Can't wait for the tape but in all honesty 92.4% of tapes are 98.3% headphones. (Might need to recalculate, will get back to you.) On the plus, puking guts.

edit
Aktion Bruit!

Quote from: Duncan on November 09, 2021, 02:11:54 PM
It definitely seems like there are some recurring themes popping up in each episode now. I suspect this is more to do with the shared interests and views that naturally happen among the kind of people Oskar is speaking to

Based on 3 episodes, I don't know if can make yet conclusions, but while WCN may want to keep the scope to certain types of noise, there is great variety of locations. USA, Swe, Fin. I recall more Swedes were announced?

I think it would be great to hear Japanese, but I guess it might be language barrier why it isn't happening. This is something what I see related to "lack of journalism". We know the early Japanese noise fairly well, because first of all it was so great and also something new. But also because there were writing about it. Documentation of it. There would be nice photos. There would be stories of gigs. I recall back in 2005 when I was in Japan, Koji Tano was talking about first noise gig he went into. It was sort all all-starts japanese noise masters. Like dream come true for any noise fan. He concluded, audience was 6 persons, him included. Still some of these gigs are like noise folklore, that is conceptually immortalized in hundreds, if not thousands of peoples brain. Even if audience was, like CCCC told in old Bananafish interview "always the same 20 people". Guys like A.Hopkins pushing the information forward, magazines like Bananafish or Onkagu Otaku and so on pushing writing and visuals. Nobody could claim that M.S.B.R. lathe cut of 20 copies was insignificant because of tiny edition. There is some other quality than "edition of 20", what makes many contemporary items obsolete. MSBR lathe cut would be inspiring, regardless if you get it, have it, heard it.
There is new noise in Japan too. Is it good or great? Somehow inspiring? Well... who knows! I would assume it requires some catalyst to blossom.

There was comment by Swede, in noise playing now, about lack of new blood in swedish harsh noise scene. I think that there are actions that can make "scene" flourish. Just as described in WCN podcast #3 about dynamics of building the scene (so to say). For things to happen, a lot of things can be done that will increase to odds that random sparks will actually become something and not merely disappear in the void.

Re: Japanese noise.

Oxen (label) seems to have a strong handle on that geography. "Live at Soup" 2CD compilation from 2020, for example. I get the impression the current crop of artists functionally center around live venues such as the aforementioned Soup.

Last episode is great, however for someone not that much versed into the American side of things a little introduction to the guests would have been nice! :)

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 10, 2021, 09:46:52 AM
I think it would be great to hear Japanese, but I guess it might be language barrier why it isn't happening. This is something what I see related to "lack of journalism".

How are your video interviews going? Last one was ZSS, any follow up interviews planned?

Quote from: W.K. on November 10, 2021, 10:53:57 PM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 10, 2021, 09:46:52 AM
I think it would be great to hear Japanese, but I guess it might be language barrier why it isn't happening. This is something what I see related to "lack of journalism".

How are your video interviews going? Last one was ZSS, any follow up interviews planned?

There was Edge of Decay done after it. Video documentaries are good and there is one "under work" now.
Meanwhile bunch of Finnish language podcasts and ton of writing in Finnish. It has seemed that focus on "local" scene has been good thing to do, already language-wise allowing more depth, and they tend to have sort of "educational" purpose as well.
There is always plan of more of everything, but I paper zine SI#13 should be tweaked ready..

Very much enjoyed the first two - do you plan to keep uploading them to Spotify? I do my "podcasting" on the commute to and from work and haven't seen episode 3 there yet.

Quote from: holy ghost on November 15, 2021, 01:49:32 PM
Very much enjoyed the first two - do you plan to keep uploading them to Spotify? I do my "podcasting" on the commute to and from work and haven't seen episode 3 there yet.

Yes, just had to get my money right but will be uploading them weekly from here on out. I'm uploading episode 3 with Stefan Aune+Brad Griggs+Luke Tandy right now and will be uploading the new episode with Tommy Carlsson of TRERIKSRÖSET today, shortly after the Youtube version airs at 18:00 CET.

Can't wait for today's episode, that brief clip on Instagram showed what's bound to be a very interesting and exciting interview.

Episode 4 with Tommy Carlsson of TRERIKSRÖSET out now!

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=white+centipede+noise+podcast

Quote from: WCN on November 15, 2021, 02:25:30 PM

Quote from: holy ghost on November 15, 2021, 01:49:32 PM
Very much enjoyed the first two - do you plan to keep uploading them to Spotify? I do my "podcasting" on the commute to and from work and haven't seen episode 3 there yet.

Yes, just had to get my money right but will be uploading them weekly from here on out. I'm uploading episode 3 with Stefan Aune+Brad Griggs+Luke Tandy right now and will be uploading the new episode with Tommy Carlsson of TRERIKSRÖSET today, shortly after the Youtube version airs at 18:00 CET.

Awesome - I know Spotify isn't the "coolest" platform but it's the only one I use. Much appreciated!

Neat WCN episode with sir Tommy Carlsson. After podcast was playing his Heteronormally musik... LP. Always fierce and nasty. I had to check my tapes. I may be missing 1-3 misc tapes of Treriksröset, but I didn't realize the debut tape 1st private edition was so rare? As that is what I got back then, I always assume it was the... hmm "prevailing edition". I have never seen the Hatband version.

Nice interview to listen. Funny moment about the gatekeepers. I tend to hear it from the newbies, who seem to approach the subject from negative perspective. Blaming guys who ran zines, distros, wrote reviews, organized shows as gatekeepers who somehow dictate the public taste and limit someones opportunities... pfff..  What a bitter nonsense. "Gatekeepers", are usually not preventing anyones success, merely doing their best to push things forward, often ungrateful job done of... obsessive habit or some sort? I wish more of that type of folks, rather than the ones who'll by hurt by one bad review or blame lack of success on others. 

Tommy good example of being perfectly content just creating immortal harsh noise release, barely concerned of its "success".

Treriksröset on this Heteronormally musik för... LP - sound is hard to really put into "category". It doesn't sound like many Swedish acts. It is no way like USA harsh noise, nor like Japanese harsh noise. It is nevertheless so pure harsh noise, that you can't say there is that much experimental in it. It is not always maximum distortion orgy, but it is noisy in other ways. Instead of crisp, it is always dirty and somehow rusty, live sounding and I guess most often straight flat mono recording. Leaving some stuff in that some others would maybe edit out? Sort of 90's feel. Just enough of letting sound to drift a bit, so the utmost harsh blast ripper parts will stand out.

Dare I say it? Tommy is one sexy motherfucker.

Well I am behind on these already... need to finish episode 2 and really interested to see/hear the Stefan Aune edition.  Hope you can keep the momentum up - no shame in slowing down though!

After watching I don't think that 'gatekeeper' is really the right term for what either of them are talking about. It seems to me like another comment on the issue of discourse and how much/little it takes to have a single opinion become the larger consensus within noise. There is still a reasonable conversation to be had about that. How much does the good/bad/popular/unpopular in noise get defined by social factors. But yeah, I don't think it's something anyone should be getting to bothered by, not if they're capable of adult thought anyway. Conversely, how often does anyone here genuinely hear the complaint that the big shots are actively denying the newbies their opportunities? I don't see it but perhaps I'm just lucky not to be exposed to it.

It was only a very brief mention but I'd have liked to hear a bit more about TC's issue with govt. funded gigs. He didn't go into it enough for me to understand what his misgivings were around them but I'd be curious to know. You don't need to think too hard about which organisations he's likely talking and, in comparison to the UK at least, these places are quite incredible propositions for those interested in abstract or avant garde sound, about so I wonder if it's specific issues with them? the related artists? or a wider ideological issue with public money being used to fund the stuff?!

Quote from: Duncan on November 16, 2021, 05:11:32 PMConversely, how often does anyone here genuinely hear the complaint that the big shots are actively denying the newbies their opportunities? I don't see it but perhaps I'm just lucky not to be exposed to it.

Formerly, it would be zine editors who won't include X, but would include Y. Distributors who refused to carry X but carry Y. Gig organizers who never gives "you" chance but seemingly everybody else. I get to hear enough about elitism, gatekeeping and such. If not gatekeeping, it'll be related concepts of "scene influencers" or "scene police", hah..  Even original DIY culture was the solution against gatekeepers. I think concept of gatekeeping became nearly obsolete by the time internet was popularized.

I think SI forum is good example. As long as one is not annoying cunt,  it is open forum where anything noise related goes and any voice has possibility. From private persons, to DIY to official companies. All gates are open, just things interest people in varied amount and for "success" or "attention", years of hard work doing interesting stuff may eventually result that every release one makes is not like starting over from zero.

Great ep, love his perspective on playing live; "it's trench warfare". First I heard of his contact mic on the penis trick....don't think I'll be pulling that one off any time soon.

With regards to gatekeeping, I think it's a word that's gone on to mean "things I perceive are dominating the conversation"; that is, due to the nature of social media algorithms, fans of the genre find themselves exposed to the artists/labels/distros which also engage in social media, thus creating a false sense of perceived authority, which breeds resentment.

Here's a hypothetical:
Label X is prolific, and has "high engagement", and posts a lot on instagram. Fan Y sees their posts more than other, less prolific posters. Fan Y begins to feel that Label X is dominating the conversation in a way that could be perceived as "gatekeeping" when in fact it's the algorithm that's driving this resentment.

When there isn't an active environment of information sharing in the genre, people default to social media, and the result is a distorted view of reality. Basically, we need more zines, more podcasts, more live shows, more active forum posters, and generally a larger landscape of critique, info sharing, and documentation. Is anyone even capable of gatekeeping? Just zuckerberg and his AI legions at this point I think..

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 16, 2021, 07:25:08 PM
Formerly, it would be zine editors who won't include X, but would include Y. Distributors who refused to carry X but carry Y. Gig organizers who never gives "you" chance but seemingly everybody else. I get to hear enough about elitism, gatekeeping and such. If not gatekeeping, it'll be related concepts of "scene influencers" or "scene police", hah..  Even original DIY culture was the solution against gatekeepers. I think concept of gatekeeping became nearly obsolete by the time internet was popularized.

Well, we are talking about two different things then. Gatekeeping i.e. a person actively guarding or preventing someone else from 'progression' within whatever scene they have the dubious honour of being an 'influencer' in...probably doesn't ever really happen.

Certain people who organise labels/shows/distro/zines having their preferences and maybe being less willing to bring new people into those preferences? well this certainly happens. In most cases it's inevitable and sure, the result of years worth of involvement with particular stuff. And why should someone have to disobey their own tastes for the sake of being more open to things if everything they do is out of their own pocket and time and energy? I guess it only becomes a problem when the persons at the, ummm, top of the table start acting like embarrassing dicks about those preferences or feel that their particular approach to producing unpopular extreme sounds makes them important outside of that highly limited context. We've definitely all seen this too. Even from some of the heavy lifters! I probably don't need to give examples but I have a great many under my belt which are hilarious and pitiful in equal measure. Those things are social problems though and the answer should always be to laugh, move on, do your own thing, find more meaningful connections away from those people.

It's always the audience that should be held to a higher standard anyway. If fashionable views or taste making exists even in a world like noise it's only because there are people who are susceptible to having their tastes and opinions made for them. If you don't have the faculties to be able to tell when an album is underwhelming or amazing to your ears vs amazing to the ears of others or even, in many cases elsewhere in underground music, given to a low rate PR company who duly ensure the press release is ctrl+V'd into popular platforms...well...you get the quality you deserve.

Talking about gatekeeping in such a DIY genre makes no sense to me, and i dont really have heard / read anyone complaining about that. Though i can imagine the type of person who would think like this, and i dont doubt they exist. "I have uploaded 10-20 releases on Bandcamp, i put the links everywhere i could, still i dont get feedback, the recognition i deserve." . Or maybe there is another type too, one with releases on known labels, that he still wants his name to be talked by those he percieves as 'gatekeepers' . In any case, anyone who complains about gatekeepers has to ask himself why he seeks someone else to promote him, why he seeks recognition. Even if it is just a personal 'innocent' wish, that he wants to be noticed by these he regards highly. - I think in the interview Tommy gave his perception on "No to new support" . You must do what you do for your own satisfaction, with no other intentions, without caring if your work will be liked by the 'public' .

Want 'fame' ? Go to a reality show ! - Want money ? Get a job !

Everyone needs those Mania tapes that Tommy is doing. The dubs are amazing - crystal clear and LOUD.

Quote from: absurdexposition on November 18, 2021, 04:44:07 AM
Everyone needs those Mania tapes that Tommy is doing. The dubs are amazing - crystal clear and LOUD.

I second that.

I only watched a part of the first episode with Haare and I´ve enjoyed it. Will watch the new ones as well, good work!

Listened to the first quarter of the fine Mr.Carlsson episode, but then I was in a situation where I could only watch youtube via cable TV on a big screen.  Watching the episode is a completely different experience.  In time, I'm going to go back and watch the others.  Thanks for taking that other step to do video.  A-1 quality.  Tip of the hat to both O and T.

Episode 5 with Sam Stoxen of PHAGE TAPES out now! https://youtu.be/ELSrAw7oMig

Great ep, loved the PUNISHER discussion...very varied and nuanced topic in this age of punishment... Spot on observation RE: convincing "underground" people to listen to techno v. industrial.

Also I woud buy a Bile 12" from Phage.

Phage is probably most interesting for the label & distro folks, but there is also plenty of good opinions and not avoiding talking about them. Giving criticism when necessary etc.

Lathe discussion is probably now different than it could have been before? When lots of noise lathes were cut in New Zealand for a bit compromised plastic disc format, it is quite different than nowadays several places cut into actual vinyl. Of course it is not pressed, but if sound is good, and material is actually vinyl, one can't really point out it would be vastly different.  Back when it was soft acetate discs or soft plastic, both sound and durability would be unlike real vinyl.  A lot of contemporary lathes, there is nothing else to complain than possibly outrageous prices that item will be due manufacturing costs. (of course cutting on harder vinyl will cause needle to wear old sooner and this may effect the sound of lathes unless cuttinghead is properly fixed once in a while)

Very brief, but funny moment was, when Phage asked as if it OK to mentioned Final Solution release coming out. I guess traditional PE is potentially a bit spicy subject even in harsh noise discussion.

Saying that episode is probably most interesting for the label & distro folks, of course no negative remark at all. I think there is probably even more need for it. Something related this punishers -discussion, I'm sure the ones who may be guilty for things such as non-stop spamming of social media groups that are not meant for it are probably beyond hope, haha, but there are things like artists or labels being vocal about dead stock, items not moving, people not giving a fuck and so on. And simply mentioning that they are not alone in this experience. It's just something one has to cope with, instead bitter messages directed to last few fanatics and supporters.

Also the discussion that name of the game in 2021 is the constant visibility in social media. That is would be the necessary evil, that message gets across. I get it, but somehow.. don't accept it. I think also one way to look at it, can be observing what kind of people you wish to hear stuff you put out? Not elitist move really, but simply acknowledging that guys who spend all day everyday browsing instagram, may be audience for the bandcamp link, but possibly not the focus group of guys who with buy CD.

I think there is this information gap, where nobody does paper catalogue and the handful of guys (that can mean big% in context of noise) drop out from active customers. Many promote only in social media. Many have availability that requires social media tempo to be able to buy tape. If you are not there, you may be out of the circle, unless item hits to your favored distributor.

Therefore, some other places where information circulates with slower pace, and from perspective of fans or "journalists" is very nice. For example, I guess I have heard more noise news about all these american harsh noise labels from these podcasts than anywhere else. Very much appreciated.

Even if Special Interests forum is like tiny spot in the noise scene, where limited amount of people can be reached (I guess roughly few hundred registered members visit fairly frequently), it is still place where you can use search funtion. You can see older classified ads. You can browse label news (of those who post) and so on. You can also use descriptions, album titles and such, what may get your post deleted or "shadow banned" in social media. Not meaning it would have to be hate mongering etc, but even trying to promote Contagious Orgasm CD some years back, proved that unless you cleaned up every bad word and juicy description, post was not going to anyones feed.

Nowadays, I have heard people say, how social media regulations are already effecting alternative music releases. Tits on the cover? No way, since you could not post album anywhere. Explicit words? etc. Something that gets you kicked out of bandcamp.. I rather stay loyal to artistic integrity, than start to modify creativity under guidance of multinational corporations.

Yet another great episode.

I think Phage (alongside Freak Animal) might be the longest distro/wholesale relationship I've had. I was ordering from Sam over a decade ago - some years before I transitioned to a "noise only" distro. Always an encouragement to artists/others working in the noise scene and dedicated to the DIY ethics - especially those earlier releases with hand-screened packaging.

I appreciated the talk about the logistics end of label/distro reality and could sadly relate to throwing out "unwanted" dead stock after having it sit around for years, although it's sad to hear when it's a release as great as Little Pieces of Violence.

The lathe cuts of 10+ years ago that I've heard have all been pretty bad in terms of sound quality, and were prone to warp. There is the Flatline Construct / Moz 10" that I should revisit again for comparison, but a lot of hc/punk bands did lathes in the mid-00s and they all sounded like shit.

I deal with punishers ordering from me every day. Usually they disappear after a while, some become regular customers and you just deal with it, others end up getting truly into it and releasing some good tapes.

Quote from: WCN on November 22, 2021, 07:48:53 PM
Episode 5 with Sam Stoxen of PHAGE TAPES out now! https://youtu.be/ELSrAw7oMig

This is great. Also, the overbuying stock problem hits close to home. I also ordered a huge number of CDs from Copycats like 10 years ago and still have a closet full of boxes. The idea of salvaging the jewel cases isn't a bad idea

Quote from: Pigswill on November 24, 2021, 07:49:02 AM

Quote from: WCN on November 22, 2021, 07:48:53 PM
Episode 5 with Sam Stoxen of PHAGE TAPES out now! https://youtu.be/ELSrAw7oMig

This is great. Also, the overbuying stock problem hits close to home. I also ordered a huge number of CDs from Copycats like 10 years ago and still have a closet full of boxes. The idea of salvaging the jewel cases isn't a bad idea

Then you will have the same closet full of boxes with jewel cases, taking exactly the same space. What's the difference ? - In such a problem, instead of trashing them, i would say include them as bonus stuff in other orders. At least try that first ...

From perspective of label/distribution, I think discogs changed the idea of freebies. Lets say, you got great title, which is sellable, but you just have few hundred too many. You start to throw them for free to customers, and soon there is 15 copies at discogs starting from 1usd. It may not effect how people view the album since then... but it may, haha.. 

Formerly you had potential to trade, wholesale, retail, and now when copies are circulating for less than manufacturing price it certainly has small twist on that. For example, what the distributors who paid for items think when "market" is flooded by perhaps three times cheaper unplayed copies? Are they going to be buying your next thing, when they can assume you will just ruin any possibility for them to sell copies they bought?

I have never thrown UG items to thrash bin for sake of not being able to get rid of it, but I can understand why this would seem good idea for someone. It was standard practice in mainstream music. You would press according to ideal what it could sell, and eventually trash most of the store-return and unsold copes. Waste, sure, but I would guess not that many kilos of plastic is wasted before you will learn to avoid such situation?

Good conversation between Oskar/Sam. I watched the Luke/Brad/Stefan episode as well but found there were some instances where 3+ were too much. I think if that had been separate episodes the respective parties could have expounded better. I don't listen to podcasts as a general rule so don't know if it's always that way but I like the one-on-one approach much better. YMMV. Sam is also one of the handful of people over the years who have ever reached out to me about doing something specifically for them, so he'll always have my respect for that. I don't have my finger on the pulse of everything (for better or worse) happening so it's nice to be able to hear about things. Found some of his answers interesting. Mad props for the INCENDIARY shirt.

Did they throw in a mention of a Hermit reissue...or something...in the Phage interview?  I couldn't make it out for sure.  Another quality interview.

I have listened to podcasts for many years. Especially when I go to bed every night or cooking food etc. But this with the video/visual thing makes it something really extra. I have enjoyed every episode and it's a genius move to release it on Monday's cause suddenly you have something extra that you are interested of to looking forward to.
And I just pulled out the Pain Jerk & John Wiese-Terrazzo CD that I haven't listened to since 2007 and give it another chance. Cause it made me curious since it was on Sam/Phage Tapes top 5 and I remembered I had it but not how it sounds.
Keep up the good work!

Quote from: Zeno Marx on November 24, 2021, 06:20:51 PM
Did they throw in a mention of a Hermit reissue...or something...in the Phage interview?  I couldn't make it out for sure.  Another quality interview.

I don't think so? If they did, I missed it. New Hermit material coming soon on Absurd Exposition, however.

Edit: Actually you probably heard my ad in the episode.

Quote from: absurdexposition on November 25, 2021, 02:09:44 AM

Quote from: Zeno Marx on November 24, 2021, 06:20:51 PM
Did they throw in a mention of a Hermit reissue...or something...in the Phage interview?  I couldn't make it out for sure.  Another quality interview.

I don't think so? If they did, I missed it. New Hermit material coming soon on Absurd Exposition, however.

Edit: Actually you probably heard my ad in the episode.

Ah...and very good news.

Really need to cop that new Sun Hing Lung release - any European distros?

Quote from: theotherjohn on November 29, 2021, 08:09:12 PM
Really need to cop that new Sun Hing Lung release - any European distros?

I wish!

Episode 6 with Pat Yankee of PARANOID TIME out now!!!

https://youtu.be/aT10fGJdg8Q
https://youtu.be/aT10fGJdg8Q
https://youtu.be/aT10fGJdg8Q

As Phage Tapes touched upon, what are smaller labels going to do now that PayPal is going to report everything over $600 total sales?  I believe this has been the case for a while now?  But now with more online sites charging state sales tax and the mailorder loopholes closing, how are the smaller labels handling taxes?  Filing and getting tax ID#s?    Now that things can be so quickly linked and shown as actual business practices and retail sales, what's the atmosphere out there?

(Barely podcast related talk, but lets keep it here unless takes too much space on topic)

This has been case in Finland already for years, I think. When Paypal officially came to finland, so to say, now money traffic is something that local tax office is being informed. I don't know whether the small noise labels has much to worry, when there is like endless amount of air bnb operating on grey zone. People making good money with it, in very different level than selling noise, hah..

But can it happen? Sure. I know cases, where private person selling hobby label stuff is asked to produce evidence where money is coming from. And official companies, who had not done all the paperwork top notch. It can become problem, if you are suddenly being asked several years worth of back taxes, you simply can't afford.

I know one case in Finland, what was solved simply by explaining that it is private record collection gradually being sold away. Even if in reality it would be also label activities. Latter one may be always seen as "business", regardless is it profitable. First option is something that there usually is certain level of private sales one can do without being obligated to taxes. It is unlikely they will hunt every discogs seller, but they seem to be very very interested to solve the "illegal hotel business", so to say.

However, there are lots of news articles about the change, where for example EU tries to fight "grey economy". It makes all your possessions visible to authorities. New bank laws being enforced, and over here you get calls, letters etc for proving identity, giving all details of what you do, how you do it, etc. Banks are obligated to know their customers and how and why money moves. Also the changing postal regulations are connected. When they imposed the new regulations that everything outside EU will go to customs and you need to pay taxes, it was said to be because of "massive ongoing tax fraud". This meant that anything coming from china, was simply marked to be 20 euro or less value and it would pass without taxes.

Perhaps some knows that since last summer, new VAT system became active, so now we pay the value added tax not to country where you operate, but the destination. Order comes from sweden, I need to pay taxes to sweden. pff... Guys who hate paperwork, I guess future will be more and more miserable. Every transaction needs to be reported. If you do not report your EU taxes, penalty is 100euro a week. Even if you'd pay in time, but was a bit late with paper work, you'll be paying hard...

Podcast related. Good one again. It is really the harsh noise talk, so podcast doesn't go that deep into any theme, concept or such, but stays on noise. I like this episode a lot for the: anecdotes! That whole machete story was funny. This is one thing, what made some interviews like Bananafish legendary, as they included something I would call noise folklore.

Funny, strange, obscure stories, what gives the noise the context. What type of characters there operates, what types of people are drawn into it, what shapes their noise. I think that is vastly more crucial than what pedal one uses. Although, in Paranoid Time episode the rat -pedal talk was funny. I think there is also difference with old rat and the rat you can buy these days? For example Pain Nail uses quite often the old vintage RAT pedal. It is really dirty and savage pedal. It may not be best for massive harsh blast, but for decayed bleak industrial sound, certainly works better than Death Metal or Metalzone pedals, for example. I have been told new RAT doesn't have same sound anymore as the original, even if they claim it is "largely the same"?

Well, anyways, the noise folklore, sort of unwritten stories you know, heard of, or experienced and told forward, that is something what could be good topic. I think some more nasty stuff, maybe be something that people involved do not want to be recognized for. Nevertheless, these stories are sort of juice of noise. As great as the bands are, I am sure they would be thought differently, if Mikawa was not banker. If early Hijokaidan stage chaos did not happen. If John Duncan didn't do certain performances. If Mayuko Hino would have not been bondage related. If Whitehouse didn't have "riots", haha. Metgumbnerbone crawling in sewers, and so on and on. There is countless anecdotes from contemporary noise (say 2000's) which basically never are "told" in same ways as the good old folklore. I would say that this seems to be one element why bands/artists seem distant? When just about every trip to noise gig had something odd noise related happening, that would contribute to kind of understanding artists urges or the "climate", the spirit and surroundings, and there would be stories that are as nice as Hanatarishi driving the... thing. Yet Hanatarashi is the folklore everybody knows.

Related story, it was really funny when SNOTNOSED played with Emil B, Prurient and so on back in... 2008? something like that. 2nd floor of normal pub. Full carpets on the floors, UK style, nice restaurant type of thing. Snotnosed starts to break glass into his forehead, bleeding, making acoustic havoc on place where it was totally unexpected. Suddenly pulling out full sized slegdehammer, and hitting it with full power to the floor. You could feel entire huge building tremble and I was sure this is it. Show will be over, and there's no way it could continue. It did. No biggie. Full room of people dining downstairs and broken glass and sledgehammers upstairs as if someone is tearing the place apart... haha...

Like mentioned thing, that PE has the dark subject/concepts, and people taking it too seriously.. hmm. I am not sure about that. I know what it means, but when being somewhere in Europe, seeing PE singer sniffing fresh shemale panties he just purchased. Not only for the show, but just for personal pleasures... Even when just minding his own business, you could see him just once in a while pulling them out of the pocket and sniffing the piss soaked panties.. dark? I doubt it! Hilarious stuff. Bunch of guys blurting out "hey, you're sniffing some guys piss there", and man just diving face first into wet panties. Full story probably can't be told in way it would be as funny as it is. When knowing the noise work that is related to this, and bunch of anecdotes that tell a bit from where this material emerges, it seems to give more perspective than knowing that they may use "SP-202 and delay".

I don't think any podcast would need to start blasting some noise drama, nor be therapy sessions, nor to glorify "unacceptable behavior", but I think one knows what I mean with the anecdotes, noise folklore, I hope more of that. There is so much of it what could give life to the somewhat anonymous and distant works.

This episode was good in a way, that instead of interview, it was partly also like discussion. Oskar telling the machete story in full length. I think this type of approach would probably direct talk to good things.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 30, 2021, 11:17:32 AM

Although, in Paranoid Time episode the rat -pedal talk was funny. I think there is also difference with old rat and the rat you can buy these days? For example Pain Nail uses quite often the old vintage RAT pedal. It is really dirty and savage pedal. It may not be best for massive harsh blast, but for decayed bleak industrial sound, certainly works better than Death Metal or Metalzone pedals, for example. I have been told new RAT doesn't have same sound anymore as the original, even if they claim it is "largely the same"?6

No need to get into mega nerdy talk but yeah, the variations between Rat models come from changing a few components on the circuit (which is pretty much the same one in all versions.) Sometimes the difference is subtle, sometimes not so much. When it comes to the OG Rat model, the sound difference is subtle but it's there. Does it justify the difference in price? My deaf ears say no haha.

Also, Rat clones are cool because they often offer extra switches that allow you to try different types of Rat versions on the same pedal. Rats are also very easy to modify, which is fun. I turned my regular Rat into a Turbo Rat by switching two components, and I also added an extra potentiometer in order to make it sound better with bass.

Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on December 01, 2021, 12:20:55 AM
Turbo Rat

I have to say I don't love mine. A funny anecdote about why I have it though is because a distortion pedal died on while I was on tour with my previous band and I needed a last minute replacement. The closet guitar shop to the venue didn't have much selection, and I chose the Turbo Rat because it was almost the "Paranoid Time" pedal, ha.

If you want to know about all the variations of Rat pedals over the years, check out JHS on youtube.

https://youtu.be/B_jtDX1_FZg

Paranoid Time was a big reason why I picked up a Rat pedal. A handful of my friends did as well as we were all inspired by what sounds PT was making. Funny how its all mostly for looks!
I was lucky to see him play at the last Summer Scum and it was definitely the best set of the weekend. Pure raw energy. He brings out the best in the crowd. I've seen him at a couple of house venues too and its the same consistent energy.
Echoing what was said earlier - more anecdotes! The Mania episode that SI Podcast did, for example, was full of Keith stories. Shedding some light on a mysterious character. There's plenty of replay value in that.
Great episode, Oskar. These have been nice to look forward to as the work week creeps in.

my favorite part was the Sun Hing Lung advert :D
'don't get me started on the desserts'

Great episode with Paranoid Time! I love how he comes off in the interview: normal dude, a bit of a goofball, not shy about explaining the 'secrets' behind his sounds nor afraid to fully own up to how simple his ideas and influences are. I think there has been a nice pattern throughout the podcast of the subjects being really generous with that kind of info and trying to let the audience know that what they do is not some kind of rocket science or big mystery.

I definitely fucked up when it came to checking out his music when I first heard of it. At a time when I was dismissive of most modern US noise, thinking it to just be loads of frowning ex-hardcore guys being intense, a project called Paranoid Time was the last thing I was going to bother listening to. What a huge mistake and stupid reading of the whole situation on my part! Still making up for it today, but such is life.

The things he had to say about his stage persona and the influences of wild noise rock frontmen and pro wrestling also really made me smile, as sometimes looking at PT vids I'd wonder 'is this guy serious?' and very much hope not. Subtle differences in intent can really be the fine line between a stage presence like that being the worst or the best. So cool to hear him talk a little bit about being into tongue in cheek, partially humorous styles of noise more so than the dour stuff I'd have once pre-judged his work to be. Totally spot on comment about how this aspect is writ large in classic acts like TNB. I for one am always up for more of that approach.

Really enjoying listening to Paranoid Time.  I can only echo what others have written before - it is really fresh hearing artists talk candidly about their influences and methods, and it makes me want to dig into his back catalogue which I hope to do soon.

Quote from: urall on December 01, 2021, 02:55:39 PM
my favorite part was the Sun Hing Lung advert :D
'don't get me started on the desserts'

Youtube Harsh Noise cooking channel in 3...2...1...

Quote from: Human Larvae on December 01, 2021, 01:33:54 AM
If you want to know about all the variations of Rat pedals over the years, check out JHS on youtube.

https://youtu.be/B_jtDX1_FZg

It's a cool video but he totally forgot the R2DU!

Quote from: WCN on November 29, 2021, 08:11:23 PM

Quote from: theotherjohn on November 29, 2021, 08:09:12 PM
Really need to cop that new Sun Hing Lung release - any European distros?

I wish!

Episode 6 with Pat Yankee of PARANOID TIME out now!!!

https://youtu.be/aT10fGJdg8Q
https://youtu.be/aT10fGJdg8Q
https://youtu.be/aT10fGJdg8Q

Haven't watched the podcast yet (time time time) but in conclusion to asking favorite noise recordings don't be afraid to ask for favorite movies too, as they seem to be a major influence for most noise guys :)

Quote from: Human Larvae on December 01, 2021, 01:33:54 AM
If you want to know about all the variations of Rat pedals over the years, check out JHS on youtube.

https://youtu.be/B_jtDX1_FZg

Feel like i've missed a trick re. all this talk of the benefits of the RAT. I've seen them knocking around for years in different places but never thought to try one. I've picked one up and will give it a go!

Re. Podcast : I've only watched parts of a couple of them but quite enjoyed. Keep it up.

Episode 7 with Will Vangorder of WORTH out now!

https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs
https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs
https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs

Man, channel burn better fucking be a thing.

haha...
Good episode again!

Some nuggets of info:
The talk about writing connected to "noise", I guess it mainly relevant to Finns, but Will's first new noise recommendation, Nuori Veri, the man behind the project just published a book called Kurpitsankukka, that in many ways connects to themes of his audio work. Sort of autofiction, that covers also vast amount of the themes and life situations that are reflected in the noise. Although it is not book about noise. Put out by Abraxas kustannus. I recommend Finn's to grab that one.

Bizarre Uproar "lily the flesh", was sparked out of IOPS asking BU to take part of compilation tape of theme of VHS collecting & trading. Perhaps seemingly banal theme, but those who REALLY were involved, like 80's, 90's, know it was much more... BU decided to use this old quite arty self made bizarre s/m & art video, by girlfriend of infamous piercing, horror, s&m, comics, and overall underground activist Nalle Virolainen. All sorts of oddities happen in very lengthy film she was selling via xxx magazine ads. Shitting on glass with camera beneath, public obscenities, s/m sessions, all sorts of things. Anyways, session became so good, and the fact that mentioned VHS comp is STILL not out after all these years. (It does have submissions from Mania, BU (new song), Grunt, whatever.., maybe some day! Packaging is already here too, so got to wrap it together at some point). Considering that Lily the flesh tape came out already more than 10 years ago, that was the moment when F&V decided to put out the recording in its full uncut form and not wait IOPS comp.
It was also performed live 2014, in Lahti, in bar next to my record store. It is really unique in BU catalogue. There is not anything quite like it. Same goes to several recordings, though. Like MASS 10", which is really great pure harsh noise you rarely hear from BU.

"don't say prose naggee"
check.

good stuff, appreciate the attempts to articulate the inarticulate. Also the dismissive attitude towards object permanence..overrated in a world going down the drain. Glad to get some context on Lily the Flesh too, that's a favorite for sure - had no idea asrar repressed it a few years ago.

Episode 8 out now with Jon Engman of CUSTODIAN (ex-BRODEQUIN drummer)

https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8
https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8
https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8

Quote from: WCN on December 14, 2021, 01:35:03 AM
Episode 8 out now with Jon Engman of CUSTODIAN (ex-BRODEQUIN drummer)

https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8
https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8
https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8

Busted out the Mania / Custodian LP the other day in preparation. What a scorcher.

Pulled that split LP out from shelves last night, but didn't have time to listen yet.

That new York show they are talking about was in march 2004. It was part of 3 dates of Grunt "tour". I was asked back then, what it would take to get Grunt to play. I don't "play for money" so to say, so question never been the finances, nor I think I was ever actually paid for at USA gigs. Nothing really is gained from "paid flights" or "fee", but what I asked for, was that there needs to be bands I want to see, and would be unlikely to see otherwise. Think of early 00's and how the hell could you see any of the bands listed on the bill? I send Force of Nature / Peter list of bands I would hope to see/play with, and everybody said they'll come. Bloodyminded, Slogun, Taint, Control, Sickness, Deathpile,... and some local bands I didn't specially request, but of course great to see. Fairly new act, like Prurient in Boston! Immaculate:grotesque, Viodre, Karlheinz, etc..

Taint show in boston was amusing. There was Prurient doing his huge amp feedback/scream History of AIDS era ripping noise. There was Bloodyminded doing perhaps the best gig of this tour. Thanks to PA being at clipping point, delivering extra grit and damage to the sound. Then Slogun doing his confrontational off-the stage thing. Keith had been watching the sets and went on stage, played 4 minute audio clip (later to be found from N12 7", titled: Pony) and that's that. No noise at all, just the one unedited sample. He said that what's he gonna do, after all these crazy live shows, and he had like two pedals and noise generator, hah... But it was great as is, just reflecting the ethos of noise in general. Not being like euro-pe/industrial, where it is almost standard to play rock'n'roll show length, 30-40 mins set of well planned thing, like album. Decision to do just sort of "victimology" type of piece, and quit, and offer no "satisfaction". It is another kind of approach, to not guarantee anything audience may expect.

Custodian, I have somehow feel as if the tape on WCN was good stuff, but otherwise, specially from CDR releases, barely recollections. Have to play the split LP this evening.

Another great episode. The slide-offs into the death-metal scene of the time are interesting.

I agree with everything said about a physical release being on a whole different kind of level than just a soundcloud/bandcamp release.

On the other hand bandcamp is a great tool to create a kind of an archive. So even if the physical item is sold out/unobtainable elsewhere, the interested listener can play a release, maybe even much later than when it was released.

Good episode eventhough i'm not that familiar with Custodian myself. Very relatable subjects (with every episode though), it's good to hear other people make the the same reflections on certain topics.

Episode 9 with JASON CRUMER out NOW!

https://youtu.be/wJty84kj1Ig
https://youtu.be/wJty84kj1Ig
https://youtu.be/wJty84kj1Ig

Listened new WCN podcast with Jason Crumer in it. Liked a lot the necessity of wild rants - althought many things I do not feel the same way, always good to see strong emotions concerning noise! He keeps roaring, growling, ranting and making odd sounds, especially in the middle of the interview, haha. Really fun. He also has some quite bold statements in opposition of crunchy harsh noise..

Now playing "Let There Be Crumer" CD. It is good CD. One very striking moment is that yanking lawnmover on on beginning of 6th track. Sure the metal junk is concrete and some bells or things like that, but this one very mundane sound in middle of album, even if it seems like starting harsh noise machine, is bizarre.

For me it seems odd, that artist would be so... hmm.. "self aware"? Considering his role or importance, or whether people listen, what people think of the work etc. Generally, reality probably is, that very few thinks about any artist -really-. If CD is done, it can be liked,.. but if nothing comes out, very few are thinking what's up with this artists. No expectations whatsoever. Something that was worked hard, feeling mindblowing by the creator, might not be instantly on playlist by everybody... but perhaps end up on turntable sometime 1-10 years later. You know, I still consider "Let there be Crumer" as his new CD! I have some things that came after this, but this is like the new thing that came after the early stuff.

What was said, doesn't mean works are meaningless or unwanted. I am just surprised if people would be thinking of what particular noise artists is up to do next - if anything? Most grab records fairly randomly, when it happens that release is available on place you buy things. I got two fairly new Crumer things still on my pile of "to be listened" stuff...

Also, even if stuff may be digitally distributed, I think it is a big deal what label puts it out physically, in terms of "visibility". Popularity of Ottoman Black CD is easy to understand. That moment on Hospital prod with big pressing, is probably different than doing LP on smaller label now and having item only available in USA (I think) and no distribution...? There are still these days a lot of people, who order from their regular dealer. Bunch of items every now and then. Never buying single item overseas due various reasons. So there may be willingness to hear new Crumer, but supply and demand doesn't always meet. I am quite sure there would be bunch of Finns that would buy Crumer if it was regularly priced distro item available from Finland. Yet, if asking from label, I would assume zero direct orders for triple LP mailed to Finland?

One curious thing, what could be matter of discussion, is that was it really the metalheads that ruined the noise?
Especially in 2000's, whole idea about "metalheads" have become so obsolete, when most of people are not really in one particular genre. A lot of people I know, may listen to metal, or even play it, but not really associate themselves as "metalheads". They are often more punk, more hardcore, more noise, who just happen to listen some metal too.

When I was listening Crumer talking what I assumed to be about post-2005 USA harsh noise crunchy stuff, single minded macronympha worship etc, noise patches, noise shirts and stuff... I was thinking are those guys "metalheads"!? My impression was that vast majority comes from hardcore & punk background? Or just overall diverse underground music culture? I rarely see noise stuff that seems to be done with metal aesthetics in almost any way.

It's more like... everything has the fused together. You take guy into metal, punk, roadburn stoner, indie music or something, and you can't really tell the difference most of the time. Patches, tattoos, long hair, short hair, merch oriented + genre music oriented, etc. all melted into same thing.

Crumer one was a laugh, I enjoyed it. Despite how much he has to say and how interesting it is I don't know how much of it should be taken toooo seriously. Lots of funny contradictions from one wild statement to the next. Pretty funny toward the end of the interview too where in spite of the continuous jokes and tongue in cheek comments you can also see continued flickers of a guy quite genuinely digging the smell of his own farts.

To focus on the positive/thought provoking stuff: very interesting talk about regarding his work as this attempt to produce American music within a lineage dating back to Ives, Cage etc For all the comments we've heard about what is missing or bad or could be better about the contemporary scene I think this would be the closest to an answer: more ambition in ones personal work than to just do something that fits neatly within the 'noise music' aesthetic but is nonetheless being performed within and to that subculture. It has never made sense to me when I speak to noise heads who can't get on with ANY kind of classical avant garde or sound poetry or concrete music or free improv or whatever else because I've always found these things to be largely contained within the same vague territory in spite of their differences. This is of course reflected in a lot of media from earlier years too, Bananafish being perhaps the most concrete example.

Some interesting analysis of the sense that there was a golden era of noise that perhaps artists today are trying to get back to that idea. I'd say yes and no. I think that while there is no shortage of various ideas and aesthetics being imitated now (which always was the case, at least since I got into this shit early 2000s) I don't see it as an attempt to 'get back' to anything, more just lack of ideas or even the confidence to develop them and people being content to copy things they like. By now we're probably all aware of this and mostly in agreement but simply pointing to the fact that Masonna wasn't following a playbook back in the day, while totally accurate, is not enough of a summary or proposition now that we're several episodes into the podcast and pretty much every one has long sections of this kind of talk (which is a good thing!) While I'm sure everyone would agree they'd prefer to listen to artists with their own vision and healthy disregard of conventions, the fact remains that the relative vacuum that all this brilliant, creative early stuff was made in cannot exist anymore and artists today have a fundamentally different creative backdrop they have to work in. In my view the whole sense of 'obsession' that guides deep fandom of Noise is a double edged sword that most of us surely fall foul of. On the one hand we want more artists who do their own thing and create fractures in the status quo but alongside that we also tend to subcategorize their work as some especially weird or experimental version of 'harsh noise'. We want to have podcasts with detailed discussions of how noise is made and with what gear, we want to have 90s tapes reissued on CD every week and we want to say its amazing when Mike Connelly or Dom Fernow produce a project that exists for no other reason than to pay tribute to a hyper specific kind of early power electronics or industrial aesthetic. Surely I'm guilty of some of these things too so it's not a criticism but, I think, a fair observation. There is undoubtedly a vibrancy in noise now compared to recent years which seems largely to be due to the recent activities that this exact kind of approach produces. I prefer this to a drought for sure. I don't think there's anything besides to just argue for MORE: more discussion, more people doing things, more acknowledgement of the boring realities of listening to and making this stuff and more encouragement for anyone new that it's definitely better to do things according to what you've got rather than what you can get! I think that the talk around all this stuff will have value in years to come more so than in the weeks/months it actually happens.

Finally and semi on that note, I did enjoy the way Crumer has this sense of his own body of work. He can talk about the ideas behind it, he can talk about what he was trying to get at and why it is different to what comes before and after. He acknowledges bits that don't work as well as bits that do and how his vision for the work may have changed over time. I very much relate to the idea that in using his own name he has to own everything he has ever tried and failed at as part of the creative project.  Is it just me or is it exceedingly rare to see a self named artist 'retire' the name and switch to a pseudonym while maintaining the idea that the overall thrust of the work will be the same thing?!

Certainly a lot to chew on overall. Personally I have never once connected with any Crumer material despite constant encouragement from all over to get into it. I will have to make a concerted effort to listen to some stuff now and no doubt I'll realise I was sleeping on some good material. This was definitely the case with the Worth episode where, even though I had heard a little and liked it - knowing I should properly investigate someday, it took the podcast to really get me digging deep and subsequently realise just quite how firmly that stuff lives in the kind of noise world I go nuts for. Always a pleasure.

Quote from: Duncan on December 21, 2021, 03:10:35 PM
By now we're probably all aware of this and mostly in agreement but simply pointing to the fact that Masonna wasn't following a playbook back in the day, while totally accurate, is not enough of a summary or proposition now that we're several episodes into the podcast and pretty much every one has long sections of this kind of talk (which is a good thing!) While I'm sure everyone would agree they'd prefer to listen to artists with their own vision and healthy disregard of conventions, the fact remains that the relative vacuum that all this brilliant, creative early stuff was made in cannot exist anymore and artists today have a fundamentally different creative backdrop they have to work in.

There is old Bananafish magazine with Jojo Hiroshige interview in it, where Jojo says about Masonna, that it is basically Whitehouse copycat, and unless Masonna can re-invent his style, it won't be interesting for long time. Comment is of course a bit strange, when there is barely resemblance of the two, but one can also understand his logic.

I would say that also in what is called "golden era of noise", there was always lots of people who felt as if everybody is merely kicking dead horse. Like declarations of industrial music being dead, done already in 1983 industrial culture handbook. And that by mid 80's it was all reduced from revolutionary experimentation into a subculture & genre music.

( Edit: That said, of course I don't meant situation, motivations and conditions would be the "always the same". Of course now situation is vastly more supportive for producing commodities or replicating genre music than ever before. Nevertheless, I would say there are so many unique artists, that being supportive for them and being interested to discover what they do, can be rewarding. )

I think technology to create sound is perhaps more to blame, than strong influence. When noise was made with "what you got", it became different, even if you tried to be something in particular. Lets say, try to copy Whitehouse without synth and efx boxes. If all you got is microphone and sheet of metal and shortwave radio, it ain't gonna sound like Whitehouse.
Now when you got literally "noise gear" to make noise, I am not surprised that sub-genre mentality can flourish, when you have the means to replicate things exactly how they are done by others. You can buy exact same pedals as you know is used in your favorite HWN release and replicate that.

About 80 minutes into the Crumer episode.  It could have been titled Contempt and Expectation. Neither are virtues.  Common and seem to recur in the episodes.  I can certainly relate.  Not that it needs pointing out, but expectations affect the audience as well.  Ruins many an experience.  Unnecessary baggage that seldom offers anything positive.  With all of life.  I was only familiar with him via Facedowninshit up to around 2002.  Missed everything until Ottoman Black.  Consider him one of the best of the 2000s.  Interesting take to have intentions for, and to be a part of, Americana.  In ways, a lofty goal and would appear to be a significant, and substantial, motivator.  When he was talking about working in the morning, it reminded me of something from a Philip Roth documentary.  Building a studio away from the main dwelling and treating it like a job.  Being at the studio at 8AM, writing all day, and going back to the main house for supper.  That some artists don't wait for inspiration.  They create the situation for productivity.

A lot to already unpack.  It could have been a 5-hour episode.

always dug crumer, enjoyed this interview a lot. Agreed RE: expectation and contempt; it's funny how we sometimes build these archetypes up in our head, but then whenever confronted by the reality of them we make an exception (well HE'S a cool metal dude, I don't like drone but HE's cool, etc.) so then what's the point really? Everyone's just out there doing their thing and stereotypes don't hold up under scrutiny. I did really like the point he made re: attempts to "academicize" noise by creating this european referencing lexicon but ignoring noises greater connection to an unbroken strain of American creativity. cool stuff

Hello, my name is Diam Mati and I have a podcast called NOISE PEOPLE. If u would ever like to collaborate on an episode together, please DM me.

My podcast is linked here - https://youtu.be/8j0bn9fLT20 a

Quote from: Zeno Marx on December 22, 2021, 10:06:44 PM
...
That some artists don't wait for inspiration.  They create the situation for productivity.
...

There is a German music-magazine which has a standardized interview-format on the last page of every issue. And one of the questions is something like "Does the real artist wait for inspiration or just goes to work?". Which seems somehow connected to the quote above and which is a question I think about a lot.

Is is real desireably for an artist to be "productive" or produce a lot? What does that say about the art he/she creates? Is is an economical factor and mainly serves to secure his financial income or is it an honest expression of some inner-self?

Here in Germany there is a certain separation of "artists" with a formal training that do art as a job and "artists" that are self-trained or autodidacts and usually have a regular day job. The later ones are usually seen as of minor quality and are often locked out of certain galery spaces or performance rooms.

And then there are "pros" like for example Neil Young, who says that you cannot force being creative, the muse has to kiss you by her own will.

It can be also matter of approach. Especially in context of noise. Some aim for album that is masterpiece. Others may aim to create a piece, that is part of the masterpiece, that is the whole body of work rather than one album.
Latter approach may offer the creative freedom. Next album does not have to objectively be better than previous, simply a path to new directions. When looking back, the album may suddenly make sense, even if it has no absolute memorable hit potential so to say. Those who want and have patience to dig deeper into entire discography, can appreciate CD as part of body of work, even when its not artists highlight. Just good and inspiring, nevertheless.

There's a lot of talk about this through-out history of art. I think simply being self aware, what is worth of other people time and attention is enough. Lots of people never complete things, but seek ways of making it better and better, to the point that any improvement has become obsolete long ago. Lots of people put out seemingly whatever. There is plenty of space between to be creative in free way.

The podcast is FINALLY available via Apple Podcasts, if that's your thing.

https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/white-centipede-noise-podcast/id1591297508
https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/white-centipede-noise-podcast/id1591297508
https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/white-centipede-noise-podcast/id1591297508

Complete professional footage from both days of AMPLIFIED HUMANS FESTIVAL, featuring legendary performances from THE RITA, AARON DILLOWAY, KILLER BUG, PARANOID TIME and many many more now available through the WCN Podcast Patreon.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Paranoid Time podcast was GREAT! Really enjoyed it. Like that's my kind of noise interview, had some legit LOLs.

Also Apple Podcasts is my platform of choice so thank you.

tried to check that crumer episode, but yt asks for my id or credit card.... what is this? is the video posted somewhere else alternatively?

Quote from: pentd on December 30, 2021, 08:11:18 PM
tried to check that crumer episode, but yt asks for my id or credit card.... what is this? is the video posted somewhere else alternatively?

It's because Crumer uses to much fucks in the video (no I'm not kidding)

I would also assume that even displaying self titled CD cover briefly may be enough?
Several videos been removed. Grunt material that had classic torso statue used in collage. Grainy photo of old statue enough to be K18.
Couple Contortus videos were removed or turned K18 simply due moderately "insensitive" track title.

I would no advice anyone to rely on one platform if they like to make thing working on long run. Even trying your best to keep it clean, so to say, these days it won't be enough.

From the USA and logged into youtube through google, just tried the Crumer, and it functions as it did.  No pay wall, warning, or anything unusual.  Youtube has always been funny about profanity, sexual content, etc when not logged in through some other means, needing some verification of being older than 18 years old to view.

For some videos, it depends where you are. A lot of things that are not visible in Germany, can be seen elsewere. Couple years ago, they started to suppress a lot of videos inside EU. Anything that could theoretically be considered "hate speech", and obviously automatic process and people filing complaints were putting tons of material there was barely differs from most of underground music. Video would be still there, but not accessible inside EU and many european countries. Not showing up in searches etc.
As usual, there is no way to get actual human to check your video or restore your deleted account if it was shut down forhaving one unacceptable live gig among hundreds other uploads.

Quote from: pentd on December 30, 2021, 08:11:18 PM
tried to check that crumer episode, but yt asks for my id or credit card.... what is this? is the video posted somewhere else alternatively?

Yeah, super lame. Sorry about that everyone. They said it was for "sex and nudity," so maybe it was really the cover of self titled? There's really nothing spicy or controversial said or shown otherwise, besides a fair amount of swearing, but I watch all kinds of videos with millions of views full of foul language on YouTube that don't have age restrictions. I guess I'll have to consider bleeping out cursing from here on out :-/ if anyone has any more tips or info on how they screen and how to avoid I'd definitely appreciate it.

I'll look into re-uploading the Crumer episode soon. The audio version is available on podcast platforms with no identity scans.

still asking for age verification, even if logged into gmail first.... i dont mind listening to the podcast audio version. thats fine, it just buggs me that they do that

i dont mind the age restriction gag, but letting them scan my id or asking for bank card is just too much orwell for my paranoid head. its already fucked up enough as it is. sounds quite like "virus hotline dude calling me from mumbai"

umpio video got also restricted some time ago on FA's channel... even though it's quite tame i think. the robots are watching us!!!

Quote from: WCN on December 31, 2021, 12:46:22 AM
if anyone has any more tips

Host on Vimeo? At least as a backup in case the YT videos get continuously flagged and/or removed.

Vimeo is a good idea.

But yeah its always a surprise what flies on YT and what does not. For instance, Human Porridge is on their. But an album cover gets you taken down? Interesting...

There's also a good chance that certain things just get reported by bitter losers, which I certainly think might have been the case with the Crumer episode.

Quote from: WCN on December 31, 2021, 10:57:17 AM
There's also a good chance that certain things just get reported by bitter losers, which I certainly think might have been the case with the Crumer episode.

I think this may be the challenge of some interviews. To ignore certain topics some people wish artists will be confronted, might make be good choice to make it more interesting. However, there will be always people who will be pissed off that none of "hot topics" are discussed.

OUT NOW - NOISE ON THE RUN, live from Jelenia Góra, Poland. WCN's personal wrap up of 2021, including my top 10 noise releases of the year, and news about what to look forward to in 2022.

This is the first installment of a new Patreon exclusive series of rambles, rants, and shit talk related to noise.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Some criticism of WCN podcast just published on the Safety Propaganda blog:

QuoteI don't expect that White Centipede Noise show to ever go beyond procedural interviews that are only worth listening to when you like the artist being interviewed

Seems to just be taking a swipe at the show for the pure sake of it? Considering that the WCN shows interviewees do go off on long tangents when they are given the chance to speak. The 'procedural interview' questions are only really asked to facilitate that...
What will Safety Propaganda come up with next?! Haha

Not sure that more space ought to be allotted for a half-sentence worth of criticism. Wasn't that one of the themes running through the podcast? Guess our noble critic missed that.

I don't think he missed it? I think it was expressed that procedural interviews are there, and only noise nerds will like it. Especially those who like the artist in question. He mentioned there is nothing for people who are not into noise. I doubt anyone would oppose that criticism? If similar interview series would be running on theme of reggae, it would be unlikely, you'd listen those simply because interviews are so amazing and insightful?

My assumption is, that WCN podcast is intended to be from "noise nerds to noise nerds", it succeeds in what it is. Done by person who has no education or long former history as "journalist" and people who may have never been interviewed in slightly odd webcam spoken interview. Even possibly using other language than their own. I do prefer that noise interviews are at least somehow connected to noise making. For example, Personal Best, nice magazine sure, but as fresh and unexpected would be to pick up noise guy to discuss.. well lets say V8 motors or ice-coffee, I just.... can't ;)  I may be interested on favorite coffee of W. Herzog, but I don't need full story of noisemakers hobbies that seem to have no connection to their sound. 

For example, Harsh Truths, when it was often expressed that it wanted to go "deeper", I just do not get what is "deeper" about half an hour talk of what your father had as job and what kind of school you went into and if you played soccer as a kid. No no, its not "deep". That's almost always  the same mundane surface level that we all have, and gets interesting only after that is brushed away and we see what other things you are, than just the regular Joe like anyone else.

Procedural interviews, sure, but noise interviews where its more about noise, is nice. (this can be said about upcoming issue of SI too. Many interviews in it are procedural. Some are not. Latter are probably the best, but I like also the standard Q+A based usual topics "you should have" in noise interview..) 
We have seen signs of WCN going beyond prepared template at times and also template changing a bit. It would be nice to see where WCN reaches when its been around same time as Noisextra and Harsh Truths was.

Well no. The quote was fans of the artist.

Vs harsh noise in general.

I think that's a pretty big hair to split and unfortunately I am currently smartphoned into this halfarsed response.

Will flesh out tomorrow ish.

But will add. It wouldn't take a huge density of braincells to immediately recognize the extra-noise appeal of a haters or a smell n quim. For other kinds of artists slightly more attention might be recommended.

Just sayin.

New episode with Mack Chami of KOUFAR, TERROR CELL UNIT and GOD IS WAR out now!

https://youtu.be/YuSJdtaEqBA
https://youtu.be/YuSJdtaEqBA
https://youtu.be/YuSJdtaEqBA

I think the WCN podcast does a great job from the "for noise fans, by noise fan" approach. He keeps the interviews moving and keeps the focus on the interviewee. I think you look at the differences he was able to get out of Paranoid Time vs Jason Crumer - definitely did not seem "procedural" when looking at different interviews. I don't know who would interested outside of the noise scene so to me it's totally fine if they remain "ultra niche" in their content.

I have been a fan of all the artists interviewed so far - I am not into TCU or Koufar (no hate, just not my thing) but I will most likely give the most recent interview a spin just because I enjoy the format... so that will be the first one for me to see if I just "enjoy the interview" without really knowing much about the artist.

it's a great interview imo, very charismatic guy even though i'm not the biggest fan of his music. but now i gotta check out his god is war stuff. i actually liked terror cell unit, tho.

Quote from: HateSermon on December 31, 2021, 05:19:18 AM
Vimeo is a good idea.

But yeah its always a surprise what flies on YT and what does not. For instance, Human Porridge is on their. But an album cover gets you taken down? Interesting...

Vimeo is only paid right? I don't think there is a 'free' tier anymore on Vimeo (or maybe only a very limited one). Guess if some of us chime in it's pretty doable but also Vimeo doesn't really have a discovery function like Youtube has (if that work for Noise or not is another discussion on its own).

Quote from: WCN on December 31, 2021, 12:46:22 AM

Quote from: pentd on December 30, 2021, 08:11:18 PM
tried to check that crumer episode, but yt asks for my id or credit card.... what is this? is the video posted somewhere else alternatively?

if anyone has any more tips.

Not really a tip on video hosting but would it be possible to create a e-mail newsletter or sorts with podcast updates so I don't have to watch the topic here on updates? Would like to see that but maybe I'm asking too much.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 02, 2022, 10:42:25 AM
Harsh Truths

Any idea what happened to him? Really liked his stuff (although maybe a little to much talk about himself and his own past) but he hasn't been doing anything anymore. Last post is some rant about a label (in typical pity punk/noise fashion throwing it all on the internet) that doesn't have anything to do with the podcast itself. Why did he stop?

Quote from: W.K. on January 03, 2022, 11:27:49 PM

Quote from: WCN on December 31, 2021, 12:46:22 AM

Quote from: pentd on December 30, 2021, 08:11:18 PM
tried to check that crumer episode, but yt asks for my id or credit card.... what is this? is the video posted somewhere else alternatively?

if anyone has any more tips.

Not really a tip on video hosting but would it be possible to create a e-mail newsletter or sorts with podcast updates so I don't have to watch the topic here on updates? Would like to see that but maybe I'm asking too much.

There's an email list: Sign up for our mailing list to keep in touch: http://eepurl.com/gqDB9P
You can also subscribe to the YouTube channel, or simply know that it airs every Monday at 18:00 CET

Quote from: W.K. on January 03, 2022, 11:23:39 PM

Quote from: HateSermon on December 31, 2021, 05:19:18 AM
Vimeo is a good idea.

But yeah its always a surprise what flies on YT and what does not. For instance, Human Porridge is on their. But an album cover gets you taken down? Interesting...

Vimeo is only paid right? I don't think there is a 'free' tier anymore on Vimeo (or maybe only a very limited one). Guess if some of us chime in it's pretty doable but also Vimeo doesn't really have a discovery function like Youtube has (if that work for Noise or not is another discussion on its own).

Ah, good point. It might not be free? I use my work's account so I guess I've never had to consider paying for it.

Quote from: W.K. on January 03, 2022, 11:41:37 PM
Any idea what happened to him?

If I remember correctly he posted in one of his instagram stories that the podcast is done and at this point he wasn't able to do more episodes. Since instagram stories disappear over time I could not double check it, but maybe someone else saw it too and can confirm.

Quote from: W.K. on January 03, 2022, 11:41:37 PM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 02, 2022, 10:42:25 AM
Harsh Truths

Any idea what happened to him? Really liked his stuff (although maybe a little to much talk about himself and his own past) but he hasn't been doing anything anymore. Last post is some rant about a label (in typical pity punk/noise fashion throwing it all on the internet) that doesn't have anything to do with the podcast itself. Why did he stop?

First he announced it will be hiatus, due covid situation did not allow face to face meetings for more intimate interviews. I think this situation has not really changed in USA? I was told he had mentioned somewhere that podcast is now officially over, due there is no really need now that there are other active podcasts. I would assume there is space for HT too.
I think it would be good for anyone to have something besides IG if they want to spread news. Especially odd way these days is to communicate via IG stories, visible for few hours and then disappear.

But back to on-topic!

Quote from: WCN on January 03, 2022, 07:34:48 PM
New episode with Mack Chami of KOUFAR, TERROR CELL UNIT and GOD IS WAR out now!

https://youtu.be/YuSJdtaEqBA
https://youtu.be/YuSJdtaEqBA
https://youtu.be/YuSJdtaEqBA

I am still half way though. Just enough to catch the shout-out for SI forum ;) haha. Thanks! Will continue the rest later today.
So far been good interview and charming gentleman, easygoing and good talking.

I find it a bit odd, that there would be so strong ethos of being "accepted"? As a example, when Finn noise scene started, NOBODY was interested. Exclude like Eric Wood and bunch of others. There was no chance that you could be somehow "in" what was happening in Japanese noise, or what European heavy electronics, USA harsh noise crunch. And so on. Of course, I could co-operate with people in every scene, no problem, but it appears as Bizarre Uproar or Grunt would be too noise for "industrial crowd" too industrial for harsh noise crowd, too handmade formless smashing to be "power electronics". Too unfocused and whatever-goes DIY attitude for noble heavy electronics fans. Too sleazy for the nice noise scene. Not looking or sounding almost anything at particular.

And there was no idea that there is "Finnish noise". Probably nobody would consciously decide to check out something like that. It took more than decade to really create something, and I don't think anyone ever had idea that we should somehow be noticed or accepted by guys who were doing their thing decade before. For big part, it is not the same thing that is being done. Fits under umbrella of hard experimental noise and paths cross-over sometimes more, sometimes less, but I am fully aware, you can not "sell idea" of Finn noise being interesting and good, for the stubborn 60 year old Whitehouse & NWW fanboys. It just ain't happening, as what is being done here, is different thing and different time.

I'm sure mr. Koufar can see it, and realize there ain't much to be gained in noise, other than following instinct in middle of getting criticized by those slightly other side/era of noise, hehe. Sometimes criticism is good, and learning to cope it with even better.

One of my fond memories is getting letter from William Bennet who did not like my review of Quality time. It's great album now, but at the time not so much. It is certainly downhill from all albums before that. Anyways, as a teenage noisefan, just casually expressing opinion on fanzine printed few hundred copies and after few months, letter with Susan Lawly return address appears to letter box, where annoyed Bennet explains how they are "light years ahead of all things happening in noise". Sure. I can appreciate this. Same way I do appreciate Koufar being strongly confident of his own excellency. Minority Report 2 tape is indeed vastly improved from older stuff, so anyone who wants to check Koufar after this interview, I'd recommend to start from that. Can be found from bandcamp.

The Koufar guy seems to have a very good taste in hiphop. He listed Boldy James x Alchemist, Conway and Roc Marciano among others.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 02, 2022, 10:42:25 AM
I do prefer that noise interviews are at least somehow connected to noise making. For example, Personal Best, nice magazine sure, but as fresh and unexpected would be to pick up noise guy to discuss.. well lets say V8 motors or ice-coffee, I just.... can't ;)  I may be interested on favorite coffee of W. Herzog, but I don't need full story of noisemakers hobbies that seem to have no connection to their sound. 

For example, Harsh Truths, when it was often expressed that it wanted to go "deeper", I just do not get what is "deeper" about half an hour talk of what your father had as job and what kind of school you went into and if you played soccer as a kid. No no, its not "deep". That's almost always  the same mundane surface level that we all have, and gets interesting only after that is brushed away and we see what other things you are, than just the regular Joe like anyone else.

Procedural interviews, sure, but noise interviews where its more about noise, is nice.

Interesting take/interesting preferences and I can see how one wants to know all about a person's noise-related activities, maybe even their gear or their recording approach or their live performances. I guess Noisextra covers that ground on their Gear-Patreon-Episodes that I have never checked out. Generally, however, I feel that there is way too much cookie cutter style interviewing going around. In fact, I would be much more interested in getting to know the person behind the noise. I can pick up your tape or CD or vinyl to get into your noise. For example: I would imagine Lasse Marhaug having a lot to say about tea ceremonies if and when asked about it. A lot of folks can illustrate a direct connection between their other interests/hobbies and even their work life and their noise activities. At this point, I would take questions about someone's favorite food or recipe or car or bicycle any day over another "How did you get into noise?". Ask about where they grew up and how it shaped them - why not? The general template for these interviews seems to be very similar and therefore pretty tired for many zines I've read and for many interviews I have listened to. As for Harsh Truths, I feel that Roman was trying very hard to find the root of noise and sound art in a person's life and I truly appreciated that every time it was done. How we are raised and how we grow up very much informs our values, convictions and what we strive for not only in life but also in art. When an interviewer shares personal stories, like in Harsh Truths, it serves the purpose of building a relationship with someone on the spot and finding commonalities and jumping off points for other talk. I can see why he would end/put on hold the pod based on concerns around not being able to meet with people face to face - it is crucial to his process because I feel he wanted to connect on a different level. As for WCN Pod, I very much like what I have seen and heard so far and one can clearly see and hear Oskar's utter enthusiasm when it comes to sharing this somewhat awkward yet in these times so familiar online video chat space with people that have an impact in noise. It is great to see people's faces as they chat and even if not all of the questions cover the ground I would like to hear covered, I have to congratulate WCN Pod on this great contribution. As for everything else, we have the tendency to quickly start taking things for granted and it is really only a handful of people here and there that make efforts like this to advance the cause of noise and its networks. After all, as long as I am not in a position to execute, document and publish the interviews I would like to hear and see, there really should be nothing to complain about at all. I cannot even begin to imagine the amount of time spent to put this together on a weekly basis and I am deeply appreciative of this new and exciting project. It helps to lift noise out of the caves it has been living in and what could be wrong with that? The Koufar-Interview is a great example of showcasing that there are intersections between noise and other genres and approaches to sound that go beyond our much loved tape murk and metal bashing, contact mic scraping, death metal pedal worshipping realm of noise. Is it for nerds? Sure. I'm all for that.

Quote from: Potier on January 04, 2022, 06:39:46 PMFor example: I would imagine Lasse Marhaug having a lot to say about tea ceremonies if and when asked about it. A lot of folks can illustrate a direct connection between their other interests/hobbies and even their work life and their noise activities. At this point, I would take questions about someone's favorite food or recipe or car or bicycle any day over another "How did you get into noise?". Ask about where they grew up and how it shaped them - why not?

+1

Big thanks to Oskar for having me and I'm glad everyone's been enjoying the episode so far!

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 04, 2022, 10:06:47 AM


I find it a bit odd, that there would be so strong ethos of being "accepted"?

Honestly for me not to bring up the Special Interests forum would be wrong. I remember signing on board early on and being excited to have found a place online where music of this nature could be discussed!

But as for being accepted, I think what I really meant was "recognition/respect" within the underground. Sounds silly to a lot but as a young kid I always wanted to be a musician and do music on the biggest level possible. I looked at folks like Mike Dando, Klaus and GO, Whitehouse, and even you Mikko and I wanted to have that same respect/recognition that I saw given to you and them. I wanted to move people because I enjoyed this medium and love it so much. Still want to go higher and higher still. Just like many things in life, we choose the level at which we want to participate at. Some only make compilation tracks, some only ever do one full length. Some headline festivals, others only play locally. I always and still do want to participate at the highest level.

And yes at the end of the day, there isn't a whole lot to be gained via noise. Also depending on project and its subject matter/reputation it can be even more difficult to be live and "active.".  A big reason why I decided to move GIW into a more musical direction and last year GIW joined the Heavy Talent roster (booking agency). I also got offered to have my other projects join which I happily accepted except for Koufar. I feel ever since the controversy/witch hunt/attempted cancellation, Koufar will never be able to escape the underground. In fact its where it belongs. Plain and simple. Having to confront ignorant people in real life over online bullshit crusades against me and Sam isn't fun or enjoyable. Would much rather perform and engage with those that understand and respect what is happening.

I agree with Mr. Toepfer,
The best interviews are not about noise.
Better to hear Roemer talk about Trannies, or Dave Phillips about recipes...or whatever smell & quim has to say.

All the criticism said, I'm of course all in favor for mentioned things. I think I am only missing latest or two Personal Best. It is certainly better than they do(or did) exists, than that would have not.

The thing is, that I have grown pretty damn tired of things like we see in some Finnish music press for example. Cooking section. Metal heads sharing recipes. Or gaming special. All sorts of metal celebrities talking about computer games. Being irritated of that, I contacted magazine editor to tell that in Special Interests there used to be couple times "recommended book". Book that has importance for the one who read it, perhaps for themes/lyrics of particular release. That could feel 100% relevant to me. They actually liked the idea, and in next.. was it 5 issues, you had anything from Nightwish to Napalm Death sharing stories of their reading habits and some relations to art they make.

In Personal Best, there was Jaakko Vanhala talking about tea enthusiasm. Not a bad article, and also in a way very much Vanhala approach, yet nevertheless, barely connection to art he is making. Not in a way that it would feel relevant. Macronympha talking about trannies would be 100% relevant in context what they do. So would be veganism of Dave Phillips. Or any odd bizarro stories S&Q may come up. Those feel integral to their art. It is not just talking about what job your sister had, but something related to personality of artists AND the works put out under this name.

So was the stories in Koufar piece. Whatever was "non-noise", it was still somewhat explanatory for what the project is. Even talking of moving from place to another, there was always relevancy towards what it meant for project.

Or times when for example John Wiese has been talking about his typeface design activities or art school (not on HT and noisextra). That is 100% relevant, when his work is often packages in his own design, with typeface that he designed for it. When saying I prefer interview to focus on art people do, this is what I mean. I don't mean endlessly talking of gear of studio work. Most of noise is vastly more. Depth for interview, I hope depth into what is relevant for the art. Not mundane lives.

That's right,
yet many aspects of noise making can also be a mundane life

As example, me taking dump in toilet would be mundane (usually), but Tisbor doing it, that art. Crucial for his noise, hah...

Is noise really not enough?

I find it strange that in a genre/subculture of music so specific and obscure, with such fanaticism and so little documentation or journalism, that people are more interested in hearing an artist talk about food or sex or cars than about what they think about noise, how and why they do it, etc. Aren't there enough outlets that cover such topics? My aim is to provide a full picture of the artist and their work. Of course those things are often a part of that picture and well worth addressing or even exploring, but I know the thought of a great artist like Jaako Vanhalla, who I would really like to know a lot more about, doing an interview where he only talks about tea is irritating to me. No disrespect to Lasse or Personal Best zine (I love his work and appreciate the zine) but this approach smacks of boredom and a flippant attitude to the art-form that is noise.

As for my own approach with the podcast, I'm learning on the job, but definitely improving as I go. The time span was less than 2 weeks from thinking: "someone ought to do a video podcast interviewing noise artists" to saying: "I guess I'm going to be the one to do it," and now here we are. I don't have any experience with journalism or interviews, and I don't pride myself for being a particularly charismatic conversationalist or great intellectual. I'm asking the questions that I as an artist and person deeply involved and obsessed with noise want to know. I am not interested in being one of these "podcast-podcasts" where it's all about 2 free thinkers riffing off each other and providing a mind-blowing conversation about "whatever" to the listener. I do want to go DEEPER and learn more about the individual as an artist, but don't want to spend disproportionate amounts of time talking about their childhood or day jobs, unless those turn out to be particularly relevant to their work. Sometimes they are, most of the time they're not. It's also very much about shop-talk for me, and not necessarily providing the most accessibly entertaining conversation to the casual noise fan. The "procedural interview" is a skeleton I've been using to make sure I stay focused and don't forget to cover important ground, but it's definitely something I'm always trying to improve upon. Still, I think most of my guests have done a great job taking my questions as a starting point and running with it. I'm trying to get better at running along with them. The video chat format isn't the most conducive to free flowing conversation, but that's a limitation I deal  with. I have already planned to have certain guests back for a second round to talk more in depth about specific things, so that will indeed happen. I've also started to do private solo episodes for patreon supporters, partially based on questions asked/topics from supporters, which already seems like it will be quite interesting.

I do genuinely dream of this podcast being something a wider variety of people will find engaging and valuable, and will continue to strive to make it that, but only on my terms. I am not at all interested in pandering to people who are "over" noise, who think noise is over, who use phrases like "one of the few noise artists who actually..." or "finally something fresh..." I'm not going to focus on spicy but irrelevant stories in order to make it interesting to more people. I would be extremely disappointed if someone sat down with Joe Roemer for 2 hours and only wanted to talk about "fucking trannies" and not his thoughts on all of the other interesting stuff he has been involved with.

That said, I am sincerely interested in hearing more from people about what kinds of questions they are interested in hearing from artists and honing my interview skills. Please do reach out.

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on January 03, 2022, 05:17:36 PM
Well no. The quote was fans of the artist.

Vs harsh noise in general.

I think that's a pretty big hair to split and unfortunately I am currently smartphoned into this halfarsed response.

Will flesh out tomorrow ish.

Now that I have the opportunity to flesh things out, I'm not sure of the need. There were, I think, for me, two lines of argument.

The second line could conditionally accept that a podcast of this stripe would appeal primarily to "fans of the artist". In a soundworld of this non-size it is highly probable that fans of harsh noise will dig a fair percentage of the artists being interviewed (another running theme in the podcast). Plus I'm supremely biased because you can certainly color me among fans of the artist(s). Except for you, yes you. Though I must say I'd had little inkling as to Mr Griggs' role in the whole shebang and I love the way he seemed a bit blindsided by his own somewhat staged "outing". That's art right there.

The above connects to the first line which argues that the earlier-said critic does not quite seem to grasp, nor particularly care to grasp, everything that the podcast is bringing. The requisite degree of attention I'd demand from a critic whose words I'm willing to read simply does not appear to be there. I guess you could say I'd be cool with that if sir critic had prefaced his critique with a FdW-esque "all noise these days is a pile of derivative crap". He didn't so no love, sorry.

But to flesh out line the first a bit more (and digress a whole hellava lot more). It kind of hit home cause I'm just as fucking guilty. (Yup, no love for me either, it seems. Nothing like a bit of healthy self-loathing to get the noise juices pumping.) Pardon me, losing my train of thought.

Repeat: I'm just as FUCKING guilty. Of bandcamp-provoked limited attention-span-itus. Take the latest WCN batch. Fully some of the best shit in 2022, full stop. (2021? Well 2022 for me, okay.) Then take KM Toepfer. A project that I hadn't previously fucked with. Reason being, just as came up in an earlier episode: flippantly flipping through one or two tracks, not really giving them the time or attention to grab. (Not sure "grab" is the right verb for a project clearly steeped in clinically precise get-thy-filthy-mitts-off-me, I digress). Plus not really running into any proper write-ups; I'm a write-ups sorta listener. So why start fucking, why now? Well, cause WCN says so. That's almost, but actually not quite, enough. I'm not really a labels sorta listener. But on the say so, perhaps one whole additional minute of undivided attention was granted. That's right, sixty or seventy seconds of bonus concentrated listening. And sold.

Sorry seemed to go off more than intended and sort of inserted part of a half-formed kernel of a review. Hope I've sufficiently muddied any hope of making my case. Now back to your regularly scheduled podcast.

Side comment: +1 for WCN playing the straight man. In fact, it's demonstrably demanded. Whether intended or not. Let the artist say as much (or as little) as they may be inclined.


edit

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 05, 2022, 12:14:09 AM
taking dump in toilet would be mundane (usually), but Tisbor doing it, that art.

Say what you will about Tisbor, but the man knows his shit.

Also just to follow up, I don't think we're anywhere near the saturation point of too many noise podcasts, or general approaches, for that matter. I have full respect and appreciation for Noisextra and Harsh Truths, and wish HT would continue on. It seemed like HT "threw in the towel" in part because "other podcasts" had emerged and he didn't feel there was room anymore. I totally disagree. I see no competition between noise podcasts. I think everyone has their own worthy approach, and the more the merrier at this point - I believe we all enrich each other and most importantly: the culture.

WCN Podcast aims firstly to offer exhaustive interviews focused on the artist for the hardcore noise fan, and give the artist the chance to tell their story as completely as possibly. I don't want to talk too much about Wince or the label, except where relevant to the artist. There will be room for that elsewhere. This is a meat-and-potatoes operation, so I certainly welcome people covering all different types of angles.

From the participant side, I didn't find the interviewee experience to be formulaic, and that was while sharing space with three other people. Even the most "formulaic" question (list my favorite releases, both all time and recently) provoked a surprising amount of reflection about how, how much, and how often I'm listening to the albums I appreciate the most. I've been thinking quite a bit since the interview (and the Hands To discussion on Noisextra) about how the massive volume of releases that cycle through my house are listened to once and shelved, and how that sucks. 

If Oskar wants to have me back to talk about the noise fantasy football league I can do that, but I'm pretty sure most would hate that or be bored with it. Or maybe not, maybe people want to hear about how I lost in the semifinals to Deterge over some bullshit. I agree with the broad consensus here - the podcast is off to a great start and will only get better as Oskar has more and more practice.

Loving the podcast so far. This and noisextra are the only things I subscribe to on patreon. Don't mind pitching in a few bucks at all.

I enjoyed Mack's ep. The discussion around the move to modular and the bridges being built between noise and hardcore were of particular interest. I have noticed that HC dudes as of late are way more into/supportive of noise than I remember from even a few years ago. I'm guessing some of this came from COVID era pedal psychosis. Overall i'm seeing less of the smug "anyone can do that" attitude and more of the "teach me how to do that" regarding noise from folks who don't actively participate in the genre. It's really refreshing after dealing with years of legit HATRED from "experimental musicians" and other so called "open minded" people.

Also, unsolicited commentary here, but I think peoples negativity towards modular is a very American thing - it's become a kind of de rigeur tech-hipster thing to drop 5k on a modular rig and upload vids of ambient loops to your instagram - it's pure yuppie $$ signalling for a lot of people, but to throw the baby out with the bathwater is a silly perspective.

RE: the nature of the discussion, I think we can agree that given how virtually undocumented noise is, any and all contributions to "the culture" build on each other; the idea that 3 podcasts can't exist within a genre, especially when they're all doing something a little difference, is just not right. Hell if you guys like mundanity so much why not start a noise podcast where you ask people who don't even know what noise is what their favorite 5 salad dressings of 2021 are or whatever then run it through a HM-2.

Quote from: WCN on January 05, 2022, 03:45:02 AM
I find it strange that in a genre/subculture of music so specific and obscure, with such fanaticism and so little documentation or journalism, that people are more interested in hearing an artist talk about food or sex or cars than about what they think about noise, how and why they do it, etc. Aren't there enough outlets that cover such topics? My aim is to provide a full picture of the artist and their work. Of course those things are often a part of that picture and well worth addressing or even exploring, but I know the thought of a great artist like Jaako Vanhalla, who I would really like to know a lot more about, doing an interview where he only talks about tea is irritating to me. No disrespect to Lasse or Personal Best zine (I love his work and appreciate the zine) but this approach smacks of boredom and a flippant attitude to the art-form that is noise.

Since the topic of mundane life came up, I think I need to clarify the point I was trying to make: I was not arguing for noise-focused podcasts or noise-focused publications to become focused solely on food or sex or cars or tea. The point I was trying to make is around learning more about who a noise artist is - as you say in your statement - beyond their noise (released or unreleased), their recording practice or live performance. If that includes a conversation about tea, then I appreciate that. Depending on how deep one wants to go, specific topics could also be covered in separate episodes - e.g.: "If you wanna know more about Jaako Vanhalla's tea ceremonies, please check out our upcoming patreon episode." This is already happening on Noisextra as far as I can tell - obviously still with a different focus.
As for Mr. Marhaug and Personal Best (I only own one of those magazines and cannot comment much on general content.), I would say that someone who has been a creator of noise among so many other things for like 30 years is likely to have a certain outlook on noise as a culture that may well include boredom and flippant attitudes or maybe even jadedness. He should be allowed to cover noise and the artists involved in the fashion he chooses as long as he is paying to publish the final product.

Quote from: WCN on January 05, 2022, 03:45:02 AM
I am not interested in being one of these "podcast-podcasts" where it's all about 2 free thinkers riffing off each other and providing a mind-blowing conversation about "whatever" to the listener. I do want to go DEEPER and learn more about the individual as an artist, but don't want to spend disproportionate amounts of time talking about their childhood or day jobs, unless those turn out to be particularly relevant to their work. Sometimes they are, most of the time they're not. It's also very much about shop-talk for me, and not necessarily providing the most accessibly entertaining conversation to the casual noise fan.

I did not advocate for spending disproportionate amounts of time on someone's childhood or day jobs...(again: unless relevant to the general conversation and to what the focus is) It certainly is about finding a good balance. I also dislike podcasts that veer off into nowhere for 45 minutes with banter or dick-measuring-contests. 

Quote from: WCN on January 05, 2022, 03:45:02 AM
I would be extremely disappointed if someone sat down with Joe Roemer for 2 hours and only wanted to talk about "fucking trannies" and not his thoughts on all of the other interesting stuff he has been involved with.

I doubt that Mr. Roemer would sit down for a 2 hour interview on a topic like that... This is an extreme example and definitely a niche interest...not to mention the problems one would have without putting things like that behind a paywall. :-) With a sense of humor I would say make that a Patreon-Episode for the "fanatics".

Quote from: Eigen Bast on January 05, 2022, 06:02:12 PM
RE: the nature of the discussion, I think we can agree that given how virtually undocumented noise is, any and all contributions to "the culture" build on each other; the idea that 3 podcasts can't exist within a genre, especially when they're all doing something a little difference, is just not right. Hell if you guys like mundanity so much why not start a noise podcast where you ask people who don't even know what noise is what their favorite 5 salad dressings of 2021 are or whatever then run it through a HM-2.

Once again a broad generalization and exaggeration obviously when it comes to the salad dressing matter. I like a home-made honey mustard vinaigrette personally, obviously depending on the type of salad. I am not asking for anything really when it comes to podcasts since, again: I don't record or publish one, so I cannot and will not try to dictate what people want to feature. I feel like interviews can ultimately be relationship-building tools and it shows in WCN-Pod that Oskar already has relationships with the people he interviews. This is great and will hopefully expand into all sorts of covered topics closely or less closely related to noise - as per his choice.

On another general note: the more coverage of noise, the better it is. The "customer", "reader" or "listener" will ultimately decide what they like and what they don't like. People vote with their feet and/or their wallets ultimately.

I don't know where I come out on the sentiment that there is too little coverage or documentation of noise...after all we live in an era where live performances are streamed, uploaded, recorded and published on Bandcamp or Soundcloud or you name it. A world, where I can check out someone's performance that took place thousands of miles away on my Smart TV in HD from the comfort of my couch. There are a fair few well-produced podcasts now, there are more and more professionally produced magazines like Untitled Zine or Special Interests. There are still smaller, less frequent publications that subscribe to a total DIY philosophy - like Troubled Sleep etc. Could there be more? Sure. Should we be grateful for what we have available: absolutely.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 04, 2022, 11:56:49 PM
Even talking of moving from place to another, there was always relevancy towards what it meant for project.

Yeah, I think geography is EXTREMELY relevant in noise (and any art really). Even in the US, there are absolutely vastly different sounds that are region specific all over the country at the same time (i.e. late 2000s - early 2010s saw a more relaxed west coast while the midwest was dirty harsh noise).

Quote from: New Forces on January 05, 2022, 04:56:55 PM
maybe people want to hear about how I lost in the semifinals to Deterge over some bullshit.

Ha. Covid: It gives and it takes.

Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on January 04, 2022, 07:56:58 PM
Koufar will never be able to escape the underground. In fact its where it belongs. Plain and simple.

This is, or at least should be, true for all PE. If everyone likes it, you're doing something wrong.

Quote from: Potier on January 05, 2022, 08:35:54 PM
I don't know where I come out on the sentiment that there is too little coverage or documentation of noise...after all we live in an era where live performances are streamed, uploaded, recorded and published on Bandcamp or Soundcloud or you name it.

Uh-oh, here I go with another splitting of the hair.

Documentation: presentation, performance, release, laying it out there, doing the thing, possibly to the point of earning the doer acknowledgements both good and less good.

Coverage: commentary, criticism, critique, shit-talk, possibly to the point of earning the talker a roemer-blessed tin 'o turd in the mail.

The former, yes, plenty. The latter?

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on January 06, 2022, 04:16:07 PM
Documentation: presentation, performance, release, laying it out there, doing the thing, possibly to the point of earning the doer acknowledgements both good and less good.

Coverage: commentary, criticism, critique, shit-talk, possibly to the point of earning the talker a roemer-blessed tin 'o turd in the mail.

The former, yes, plenty. The latter?

I got the SI #13 in state of waiting to start doing lay-out. Editorial in this issue will be long. Seriously long, and it will deal a bit with things that may be related to... coverage! It comes in conclusion that we are most of all lacking the noise folklore. But other things are also commented. Those who read paper magazines, hopefully can grab it later this month!

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 06, 2022, 09:33:15 PM
I got the SI #13 in state of waiting to start doing lay-out.

The turd's in the mail.

Been enjoying these interviews quite a bit. After a stretch of inactive years, I am finally feeling the pang to locate the noise pulse again. Binge watching these well crafted episodes cause they really let me feel as if I am getting to know the artists. It's easy to identify with many of the topics discussed and I do admire the many perspectives that are shared.  This content has me inspired to find more of this kind of conversation in noise.

Been watching the WCN episodes while I cook supper in the evening. I especially enjoyed the Crumer and Koufar interviews because it isn't very often that I get to hear artists forego false modesty in order to discuss their work in a confident way that acknowledges their success, process, and vision. It was also refreshing to hear both Crumer and Mack address the emotion and inspiration behind their work, as I've grown tired of the hyper-masculine posturing that does not allow for personal or emotional discussion. Great podcast, looking forward to more.

WCN Podcast #11 N. Desuah of BODY CARVE/LIGATURE IMPRESSION out now!!!

https://youtu.be/kRO6HyXDctQ
https://youtu.be/kRO6HyXDctQ
https://youtu.be/kRO6HyXDctQ

Koufar interview is quality.  Like the guy, too.  The only people I've known who throw around "fools" are Midwesterners.  Had I heard Middle Eastern Promises last year, it would have been on my "best of" list.  I'd like to throw some hyperbole at it, but I don't know where to start.  If you haven't heard Koufar, I recommend starting there.  To borrow from his drops, the depth of Con-Dom and engagement of Iron Fist of the Sun.  Stand out, stand up album.

Kind of think a good home for his progressive approach would be Ant-Zen.  People over there doing PE but seemingly not concerned with being labeled PE or anything else.

Started listening to the WCN podcasts during downtime at work last week.
Based on personality alone, the Koufar and Crumer episodes were my first.

I liked Koufar's music a lot maybe three, four years ago. Not my cup of tea, but God Is War is interesting.
Regardless of my feelings on the man's work, I was thoroughly entertained by the interview itself.
Felt like two friends, hanging out, talking noise... for contemporary artists this is the right approach.

Crumer, I feel, brings the American folk music tradition to noise. I mean the totality of that statement.
His work in its insistence on "albums", as thematic works, is vulgarly individualistic in a way I can adore.
Said individualism leads me to regarding Crumer's albums as patriotic works, not of politics, but of self.

After new episode, I was thinking what all BC I have gotten. I also know, that while liking what he has done, I also occasionally mixed it with Body Collector... Totally unrelated project.

I have no idea what all Body Carve I have, but at least couple things. After the episode, Guts in Red Plastic tape was pulled out from shelves, as artist concluded it was his best works really. And it is very good! Solid harsh noise blasting, and just as they concluded, not wall noise, but... wall of harsh noise. I guess entire concept of HNW is debatable. Perhaps more than wall - that really tends to be one monolithic object, this is STORM or avalanche of noise. Just total blasting, that is moving forward with ferocious power. It is heavy, crunchy and thick, but... perhaps just too much things happening to be "wall". There is not many seconds where things would not be actively processed plus also repeatedly moving to new things.

In WCN interview, it is quite amusing when repeatedly is described how all this corpse and gore art is not for shock or to be "brutal". Giving impression as if that is the common idea behind corpses in noise/industrial. Sort of between the lines can be understood that Body Carve used it the right way, while the mysterious others are just trying to be edgy. I don't think I have ever really talked to artists who's interest is dead bodies and all sorts of things of that nature would be merely "brutal... man!". Especially with older folks, when amount of work and effort to get certain type of material exceeded level where one could think that it was just for laughts or piss off or shock others, hah.. And also, who others? When audience was most of all other corpse fetishists. I would be quite curious to see examples of dishonest corpse art in noise scene. Now that I think how little of it I have seen for many years, I'm thinking wouldn't hurt a bit more corpses into contemporary noise!

Perhaps podcast could inquire how artists feel about noise community? I don't remember if there was talk about this in SI forum, but I have written about it in Finnish several times. In growing numbers, I keep seeing talk about noise community, which seems sort of repulsive idea. I like the idea of scene. It's just bunch of people, loosely connected, doing what they do, and scene is what you see when you take a look. It has a bit of this, a bit of that.   Community in other hand, tends to come with some good things, but also the level of shared common denominators can start create negative baggage. Like anytime you hear, person say "in noise community there is no place for..." and you know there will be some ridiculous BS said, from delusional perspective as if they'd be calling the shots. 

Above mentioned isn't really related to WCN at all, but kind of noise community discourse appears frequently. It would be nice to see if such division is seen my people who may feel part of community rather than pretty lawless global scene.

Body Carve episode was enjoyable even though I had next to zero awareness of his work prior to listening. I liked the way he described certain decisions that went into the project to actively avoid certain techniques or sound palettes in order to make his own kind of ideal version of what noise should sound like. Since we're now in a time where we can hear more and more about what an artist does to achieve their sound it can be equally interesting hear what they have opted NOT to do on a purely technical level.

I enjoyed his take on the medical/gross imagery as a kind of extension of his work in science but also his role as a parent who can contextualise these biological...happenings...with his own kid/s. It gave the impression of his exploring this morbid, grizzly stuff from a somewhat anxious or even concerned (??) perspective as opposed to a purely objective or vicious one. Finally, I REALLY connected with his statement that his life has always been filled with different aspects of his psyche and interest which had to be reconciled with more plain, adult parts. Not that noise is overly filled with strong characters leading crazy lives but I've always enjoyed affirmations that this highly niche and bizarre music would be privately enthused over by seemingly quite normal people. On the Troniks board once I saw some tongue in cheek phrase to the effect of 'noise musicians don't live as artists, they're all office clerks'. I'm paraphrasing. But I was drawn to this notion and still appreciate the idea that 80%+ of the frenzied noise/weird music people I know probably go about their daily lives entirely undetected and giving off no sense at all that they would be locked into such a strange and often distasteful world!

One incredibly small suggestion or request I'd make of the podcast going forward is that Oskar might consider adding a track ID (hah!) of the artist's music which gets played at the start of each episode in the vid description? Not an overly important detail but good for those times when the artist is less familiar to the viewer and would like to investigate based even on that short sample.

Quote from: Duncan on January 12, 2022, 03:49:11 PM
One incredibly small suggestion or request I'd make of the podcast going forward is that Oskar might consider adding a track ID (hah!) of the artist's music which gets played at the start of each episode in the vid description? Not an overly important detail but good for those times when the artist is less familiar to the viewer and would like to investigate based even on that short sample.

I agree! Great selections at the start of the videos and for new listeners it'd be great to know what's playing

Enjoyed this week's episode as I enjoyed all of them since the first. Keep up the great work Oskar.

I only got halfway through the Body Carve interview on my drive into work this morning but that story about how Guts in Red Plastic was recorded had me HOWLING. Great work!

Quote from: WCN on December 06, 2021, 11:17:13 PM
Episode 7 with Will Vangorder of WORTH out now!

https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs
https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs
https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs

I heard a rumor that Worth was once on Judge Judy? Is it true? If so, can anyone find the footage online?

Tomorrow, the interview with Kate Rissiek of RUSALKA will air at 18:00 CET. Until then, there's a new private episode of Noise On The Run out now for Patreon supporters, where I ramble about "broken" sounding harsh noise. This topic was suggested by a supporter, and I am taking questions and suggestions for future episodes from Patreon supporters. I am also starting to offer the opportunity for supporters to submit questions for me to ask my guests!

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: feedbacker on January 12, 2022, 05:46:45 PM

Quote from: Duncan on January 12, 2022, 03:49:11 PM
One incredibly small suggestion or request I'd make of the podcast going forward is that Oskar might consider adding a track ID (hah!) of the artist's music which gets played at the start of each episode in the vid description? Not an overly important detail but good for those times when the artist is less familiar to the viewer and would like to investigate based even on that short sample.

I agree! Great selections at the start of the videos and for new listeners it'd be great to know what's playing

Enjoyed this week's episode as I enjoyed all of them since the first. Keep up the great work Oskar.

I'll be adding a track ID into the video description from here on out, and if I find the time, I might go back and enter them in previous videos.

Quote from: no_baizuo_allowed on January 13, 2022, 07:10:47 PM

Quote from: WCN on December 06, 2021, 11:17:13 PM
Episode 7 with Will Vangorder of WORTH out now!

https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs
https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs
https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs

I heard a rumor that Worth was once on Judge Judy? Is it true? If so, can anyone find the footage online?

It is indeed true, and it used to be findable on YouTube, but I searched high and low around the time of our interview and could not find it. Will said he didn't have it and it would be a hassle to get it from the person who does, so we left it. It is a top notch noise relic though, so I hope it resurfaces someday.

Episode 12 with Kate Rissiek of RUSALKA out now!

https://youtu.be/tBTS2cjOv8I
https://youtu.be/tBTS2cjOv8I
https://youtu.be/tBTS2cjOv8I

I am so far behind on these podcasts.  I applaud your quick fire turnaround.

Definitely going to listen to WORTH and RUSALKA (at some point)

Quote from: WCN on January 17, 2022, 07:47:57 PM
Episode 12 with Kate Rissiek of RUSALKA out now!

https://youtu.be/tBTS2cjOv8I
https://youtu.be/tBTS2cjOv8I
https://youtu.be/tBTS2cjOv8I

Good interview. Never seen Rusalka live. Once took a bus ride, about 600km one way, to north of Finland, just to find out gig was cancelled, haha.. Well, there was other things happening, so no problem.

There was a bit talk about Hydrophones. They may seems odd for those who never thought or heard of them, but are very common and cheap microphones. I have seen at least SMALL CRUEL PARTY use them in live sets, where he would use it for recording little stones under water, test tubes with bubbles and whatever. I think regular contact mic works, when it is waterproof.

The real deal:

https://ambient.de/en/product/asf-2-mkii-hydrophone/

Episode 13 with Vilho Koivisto of APRAPAT and THE NEW BOYFRIENDS out now!

https://youtu.be/6ucQGIEUVfI
https://youtu.be/6ucQGIEUVfI
https://youtu.be/6ucQGIEUVfI

I was just about to link it..
Good episode, once again!

There is some talk in it, how big currently blossoming noise could be or how long, below things calm down. I don't think darker visuals or topics have much to do with it (as to enjoy noise may require mentality that you can check things fairly open mindedly), but overall impression I have, is that noise has never really tested its potential. All former era when noise "boomed", was kind of pre-internet, or pre-social media. Pre-streaming services. And so on. It had very limited means of reaching people. Especially for smaller labels or artists.

This could be first time in history, that there are pretty easy access (and affordable) platforms, means of communication, distribution and so on. One certainly battles of peoples attention. But theretically, there is entirely different level of possibilities to expand reach of noise, and one can't really estimate how far it can go. The new guy hearing noise first time today, may be the one sparking up local scene somewhere where it didn't exist.

I have often mentioned to new labels or artists, that why stop at 50 tapes, if you can move 100. If you can move 100, why not next time 150? Eventually, when bunch of people got enough, and the bigger hunger is over, it is vastly better to lose half of your thousand followers, than half of you 20 followers... heh... I don't think it is about trying to become popular, or successful, but creation of foundations where this artform could perhaps go further. In way or another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jwuF1Ty_ZE

QuoteNice chat with good friend and Canadian harsh noise veteran Nick Wainwright of TASKMASTER on his background and thoughts on a number of issues.

Really funny story of Swedish power electronics guy in Yale!

Good talk with Koufar, I like his synthesizer sounds but what usually fails for me are his vocals. Would love to hear an instrumental album from him (or something without shouting). Nice to hear someone with different vision and approach.

Also don't be afraid to go all out on gear talk :D esp. with synthesizers and modulars, good stuff.

New episode with Taylor Geddes of SCREAM & WRITHE, ABSURD EXPOSITION and PRIMITIVE ISOLATION TACTICS out now!!!

https://youtu.be/EC_Ne1TRFRI
https://youtu.be/EC_Ne1TRFRI
https://youtu.be/EC_Ne1TRFRI

I don't know how interesting the "noise biz" are for listeners in general, but perhaps in noise where most people are somehow selling or trading their stuff, it is quite interesting topic. For me certainly is interesting. What I generally have observed, most people tend to assume that other people sell more, and they don't. Or expect that stuff should just fly out of shelves. When talking of numbers, I guess in episode wasn't talked about exact numbers. I would assume vast majority of noise falls between 50-300? To press 500 these days requires more trust to demand. In any format, I guess? Doing 1000 copies of noise/PE release, that probably indicates its unlikely there would be so many bands or labels selling more? I would be curious to hear the numbers if someone is actually pressing more than 500 copies of album in 2020->

I think more distros would not hurt a bit. I think there is HUGE wasted potential noise crowd, who would buy stuff, if these is "local" supply, by dealer who they like to buy from. Anyone can probably remember recent case from their own, where looking at announcement of release, thinking "I'd buy that if it was available here".

Even as simple as listening Jason Crumer episode from WCN podcast, and I was thinking I should get these new JC albums. But ordering single album from american label? Not going to happen. If it was available from some Finnish dealer (say, Kaos Kontrol, Satatuhatta,..), I could buy it. So question is not so much about if album is good, does one want it, but where it can be bought and what it might cost. Fact is, that most people don't have the luxury of "I'll pay what it costs" -attitude. As there is no shortage of good noise, you just buy something else.

That album is available somewhere, is not "distribution". It is just centralized sale. Distribution, by definition, would be shared out among a group or spread over an area. To enable scene, that there could be almost random guy, who'll be browsing distro table at noise gig and grab something. Or quite small social circles, when someone can say to 5 friends that I got bunch of these phenomenal noise CDs, you want some? Not even needing to do writeup's, just tell to friend you know this is right up your alley. Perhaps even record stores having it on shelves so guys who don't even know what they are looking after, might grab it. I do not think abundance of distributors necessarily compete with eachother. They do in platforms like discogs. But if you have your own network, that is actively communicated with, I am confident, that one doesn't have to compete about same international die-hard collectors, but enable entirely new local noise crowd to emerge.  I'm 100% sure, most guys would grab bunch of noise tapes for 7 euros, on monthly basis, even if they have been formerly firmly opposed to buying them. If that meant... 20-30usd ppd a pop from overseas? I am confused, if someone would live in country, bigger than Finland (5 million people, entire country) and claim there absolute doesn't exist 5 guys willing to pay for great noise album?

I know this episode was recorded before Scream & Writhe opened his noise forum, so there is no talk about it. I'm sure most have heard by now, but if not, there is new noise forum opened, More smartphone friendly and pic upload possibility:
https://www.screamandwrithe.com/forum/index.php

Like with distribution, I feel more is better. Having handful of forums is good. Usually there is specific spirit or leaning and there emerges new users perhaps even new crowd who don't feel other forums are their taste for whatever reason. If momentum is there, good things can happen. Forum already now has starting discussions where would be plenty of substance to contribute. Excellent decision to start taking back noise from platforms of multination social media companies.


(I do not want to make SI more mobile-friendly, nor more picture oriented. Quite opposite. I prefer conditions what force people out of social media type climate. Also, the 90's style everything goes attitude: Incel brutes, funny hat experimentalists and HN t-shirt crowd all together, able to get along in somewhat same scene)

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 08, 2022, 09:58:13 AM
I think more distros would not hurt a bit. I think there is HUGE wasted potential noise crowd, who would buy stuff, if these is "local" supply, by dealer who they like to buy from. Anyone can probably remember recent case from their own, where looking at announcement of release, thinking "I'd buy that if it was available here".

I would agree. I think maybe my comments were a bit contradictory in the sense that I was trying to talk about a distro's potential importance in helping foster a local scene at the same time as trying to say why I think there should be less to some degree. I think I cleared it up a bit later in the interview, but when speaking of less I was referring to regions that might have a several very similar distros (specifically the US where it costs the same to ship anywhere within the country) and when all the copies of a short-run release get sent to these places*, what does that really mean if it's all kept within the same "market"? I think that is less of an issue these days as there are less distros in the US but even for example I was surprised when, almost immediately after the interview was recorded a few weeks ago, another Finnish label wrote me for a trade and ended up taking a fair amount of stuff. The surprise came from the fact that Freak Animal and Satatuhatta already have copies of these releases readily on hand, so I was wrongly convinced that the region had been "covered". That definitely shone some light and if the interview had been recorded after that exchange my answer probably would have changed to reflect that new insight.

*The other counter to that then is, yes, if 50-100 copies are selling out quickly and getting eaten up by distros - why not make more? I do think more everything is probably the right answer.

Quote from: absurdexposition on February 08, 2022, 05:36:58 PM
I think that is less of an issue these days as there are less distros in the US but even for example I was surprised when, almost immediately after the interview was recorded a few weeks ago, another Finnish label wrote me for a trade and ended up taking a fair amount of stuff. The surprise came from the fact that Freak Animal and Satatuhatta already have copies of these releases readily on hand, so I was wrongly convinced that the region had been "covered". That definitely shone some light and if the interview had been recorded after that exchange my answer probably would have changed to reflect that new insight.

That's the reason I'd hope there would be more zines and podcasts and whatever. It is slightly unfortunate, that if artists (or whoever) will have basically one time chance to do interview. And it never comes out quite as you'd hope, hah.. Even if there are countless who have had no chance to speak anywhere, it feels as if it would good that zines and podcast start to return to things. Catch up with former guests etc. It is unfortunate that so much artists made so good releases, changed style, methods, etc, and could have things to talk about, but existing interviews are even decade(s) old...


I think what comes to Finland, or USA, I would say it is after all, besides regional,... hmm... cultural/social what dictates reach of distro? Noise being unusually strange case, since it can be approach from so many angels. Some could buy it from indie distro, some from metal distro, some from punk distro, some from jazz distro, but always guys who can't stand the... other side of noise. Or would never visit distributor who is biased to other kind of noise than they prefer. At least that is my assumption? Even in case of PURE NOISE distro, I'm sure you'll find enough people to describe you problem why they can't buy tape from X, but like to buy it from Y...  If Y doesn't have it, they'll pass. If as a label or band, one get over some lame community syndromes, then it can be good for the scene/artform as a whole.

No interview with this week, but there's an episode of NOISE ON THE RUN out now for Patron supporters. In this installment, I'm answering all the questions submitted over the past couple weeks while on the run from the man. Starts out at Granny's in Poland, ends up home in bed with Covid. Thanks for your support!

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

I'm back with a new episode of WCN Podcast next week with Justin Lakes of SHREDDED NERVE, DEAD GODS and SMALL MERCIES labels.

Episode 16 with Matt Boettke and Justin Lakes of DEAD GODS (SCANT / SHREDDED NERVE) out now!
https://youtu.be/lBzpwIN9YcE
https://youtu.be/lBzpwIN9YcE
https://youtu.be/lBzpwIN9YcE

Perhaps oddest moment, when I started to think about it, was when Scant mentioned he used to have this "rule" of... Just using 3 channels in mixer? I guess I heard it right? It seemed so odd number. I get someone wanting to stay mono. I get the idea of just recording stereo. I get idea of using 4-tracker. I get idea of someone concluding that now that we no longer need to rely on 4-trackers, 5+ as many as you need is great.. 1, 2, 4, 5+ all makes sense. 3 channels... really odd! Haha... No problem with that, just never heard anyone set on that consciously.

And most definitely, all the talk on pushing noise to next level, to enable it grow is good. Even when it isn't really your cup of tea.

I missed Justin say this about 3 channels, but i must say i completely agree with this sort of idea.
It seems no matter what you use, you are always short one channel, always held back in some way where if you had just one more way of doing something...
thusly i understand why you may want to limit yourself to maximize yourself as well.
must be a totally different approach from stereo or multi tracking, so makes since to me because i never consider this-
just a cluster fuck and seeing what works and different carbonatations and ALWAYS short one HOLE.

My mixer has 3 channels and I have got used to working that way.  Sometimes self imposed restrictions are useful. Agree its slightly strange that hes never explored using more though, but I guess thats his USP

Episode 17 featuring Grant Richardson of GNAWED and HEX AUDIO LABS out now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88dKpCBAvYc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88dKpCBAvYc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88dKpCBAvYc

Good one again. I would say that there is lots of good points in what Grant talks about clipping noise CD's. Intersample clipping.

Listening is of course gear related too. What I have been told, older CD players generally were requiring more headroom.
Also, very much mastering & studio engineering focused friend concluded that that distortion is also easy to detect on lower listening volumes. When there is in many players thin layer or digital clipping on top, but music is not loud enough to hide it.

It would be good to observe, how does it affect listener set up, that master is so loud, that you can't really crank up volume - I got the feeling that the volume coming from loudest possible master with lower amp volume is a bit different, than slightly more quiet CD with ability to crank up volume in amp? Of course depending on set-up one has.

https://www.productionmusiclive.com/blogs/news/mastering-tip-what-are-inter-sample-peaks-why-they-matter

One can find plenty of articles where it is explained how your perfect 0dB maximum volume WAV file may sound shitty after compression, that it would have been sounding perfect it it was just notch more quiet...


Anyways, it is nice if there is affordable mastering guy who understands noise, trying to fix the.. hehe problem what many others would not probably "get". I also smiled in moment when Oskar wonders how the hell Grant manages to do so much, and he has good explanation: No games, no movies. 
I am quite often surprised when people say they have been so busy, that nothing has gotten done, and then it comes clear that all their free time been spent on playing x-box and watching seemingly endless tv-series. Yep.. well, it's often choices we make. Some have work, families, all sorts of commitments what leave less so called free time, yet getting things done barely needs magic tricks..

Unfortunately due to an infuriating technical defect with the recording platform I've been using, this week's interview with Sam McKinlay of THE RITA has to be postponed. I'll have it out as soon as I can, but for now there's no new episode this week.

If you've been watching/listening but are not yet supporting, now would be a great time to hop on for a few € per month. There are private episodes of Noise On The Run, lots of essential and exclusive noise content like the footage of the Amplified Humans Festival 2xDVD, as well as discounts offered at WCN Mailorder. Your support is extremely appreciated at this time.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Episode 18 out now - Live at CRUDE TRANSMISSIONS FESTIVAL in Leiden, NL, featuring MOOZZHEAD, VINCENT DALLAS, SISTO ROSSI, MISERE, URALL, and WINCE

https://youtu.be/jL1os_SMkMo
https://youtu.be/jL1os_SMkMo
https://youtu.be/jL1os_SMkMo

It's good format. Normally I do not actually watch any of these podcast, more than few minutes. Rest is having the phone in my pocket and earplugs and walking outside. This one, is so compact, that you got to watch. Even the live sets, most are not that much of "action", more about working with pedals, but nice combination of good sound-board audio + the video and compact duration of sets.
There isn't so much possibilities how deep one can go into artists work in 5 mins of catching up, but it is decent introduction for who-you-are-what-you-do type of intro before gig hits in. Certainly good way to start expanding podcast into.... Noise TV, haha..
Next thing, noise cribs and visits to studio where bands craft their album,...

NTV Cribs...put that behind a paywall and you`ll be swimming in it

Great episode, really enjoyed all of the chats and the Vincent Dallas set sounded solid.  Certainly seemed to get a good audience reaction.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 16, 2022, 09:00:39 AM
Next thing, noise cribs and visits to studio where bands craft their album,...

I'd so be into that

Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on March 16, 2022, 11:39:33 PM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 16, 2022, 09:00:39 AM
Next thing, noise cribs and visits to studio where bands craft their album,...

I'd so be into that

Makes me think of a picture that Chaos Cascade (?) posted online of his set-up in what looked like his apartment living room, which included a stolen shopping cart.

NOISE TV is definitely the goal. It's been surprisingly hard to get folks to submit content along the lines of video/multimedia. If anyone has any interest in submitting something or suggestions, feel free to get in touch.

One easy content suggestion.

I am normally, pretty much 100% uninterested in "unboxing videos".
In context of noise, if there was someone to make videos of... lets say MSBR lathe 7"s or such. Perhaps Death Squad tapes, or something similar noise special packaging, which don't really come out ideally from photos, I would probably change my mind about unboxing videos, haha! I was just selling my duplicate copy of Hands To double LP on Petri Supply, and opening both copies I had, just to make sure I keep the.. better. What a horrible moment, having to figure out which one would have to go. Same album. Theoretically same covers... but not! As soon as you start actually opening it, going through prints, textures, colors and all that. It really makes you want to keep both. Just knowing there there must be multiple other great versions, so you do not really need it. However, if someone would make video of what their Petri Supply handmade packages look like, with perhaps playing little noise on background, I'd consider it worth of 5 mins in in some sort of NoiseTV episode. I'd take look on any G.R.O.S.S., old Tesco, Taint Entertainment, Slogun, etc. All it needs is guy who knows what kind of lights to use and what angle will make you see the goodies you're never going to find...  This is far more interesting "unboxing" that all those new mass products people seem to unbox.


(Only limitations of platform is a bit sucky. If you can't unbox Smell & Quim / Macronympha 7", you know platform ain't ideal for noise. In recent weeks even stuff like MO*TE CD box video trailer was considered adults only. Formerly one was used to situation where picture of antique statue/sculpture is enough to be too pornographic or violent, but now its been videos where is literally zero about of disagreable content.)

Out now! Episode 19 with Sam McKinlay of THE RITA!

https://youtu.be/aD8FkfQ-7Jg
https://youtu.be/aD8FkfQ-7Jg
https://youtu.be/aD8FkfQ-7Jg

Absolute excellent episode! Of course, one can't expect that everybody would be so casual, ready to talk in absolute detail, and also funny. I'd suppose for most it is slightly challenging situation to be in front of webcam, sweating while thing what the hell should be said, what wouldn't be just.. trivial. Mr. McKinlay certainly is the key harsh noise masters of our times, for pushing things into formerly unheard level of fanaticism for the detail.

It is quite rare case that some could articulate both the funny stories, but that intent of focusing on detail. I have certain tastes and approaches that are vastly different and certain level of stubbornness, but there are so many moments, when despite different methods and ways, I find myself thinking he is absolutely right!

It is really funny, how the keep industrial out of harsh noise was so controversial. Maybe it was more in the social media than anywhere else? I recall Harsh Truths attempted to turn it to some kind of statement against harmful ideologies in industrial. I didn't think that was at all the case, nor I thought there is anything offensive in the statement at all. Now that Sam explained his position, I can fully agree what he is saying. haha.

While I talk frequently of industrial-noise, I never really associate it with that industrial they are talking about. That industrial music, with the bounding "techno beats".. it's quite different of what I mean with industrial-noise, that is most of all kind of cultural milieu.

Where as noise can be, almost whatever. From fine arts, jazz, punk, metal, indie-rock, techno, and so on, you push to certain direction and eventually you might be reaching borders of expression that is noise.

Industrial had plenty of influence of avantgarde art, often crossing over to performance, installation, mail-art, video-art, and whatever. Often challenging what is norm or accepted in wider society. I suppose no need to describe what all fell under industrial movement. If something is industrial-noise, I would be pretty damn sure one can file Mauthausen Orchestra or Atrax Morgue, Dead Body Love and such under such term. They are clearly something else than free jazz going real nasty. Something else than couple punks that rejected guitars, and kept the amps and distortion pedals to make energetic loud noise. Mentioned bands fall into lineage, where many of elements are found (even if not exclusively) from industrial. Sure, they have nothing really in common with the industrial-rock or industrial-metal. They may not have beats or music or fill many other expected qualities. Yet still, I would be surprised if someone would see that these bands do not come from the tradition of TG, Come Org, Broken Flag...  but step by step taking it further and further away into... industrial-noise.  Anyways, when Sam says it was most of all for being annoyed of false advertising, I certainly get it 100%. Grabbing the praised harsh noise tape or live gig, and finding out it wasn't noise at all, but dance music with some distortion.
 

Some of the greatest things on podcast is the detailed explanation of the ballet theme that dominates The Rita works for years. Some weeks ago I wrote that piece combining The Rita and Rober Longo into "book + noise combo review" type of thing. Longo often uses these iconic images, but there is usually study of power and violence behind the seemingly clean images. When one tends to see clean and neat images of ballet in The Rita, there is quite a contrast when hearing Sam describe about the dark history of ballet, how that is big part of the obsession in there. It sets whole thing to a new level. Certainly recommended to listen this episode to get what he does. When it has suddenly clear links of human trafficking, brothels, objectification of women, control and abuse to quite brutal level.  The story how it all started with sudden revelation and quickly being totally immersive theme, where one can't really see that there would be need to do anything else than that.

It's more than 2 hours, but feels like... could have been more!

Much to digest with this episode, and so many potential comments. First of all, one of the best episodes yet. I agree that even with the 2+ hour run time I could have easily listened to even more! This honestly feels like a companion piece to the Tights Worship documentary. If anyone has not seen that then I highly recommend checking it out. A lot of insight into the process of creating releases is given with footage of nylon stocking/contact mic sessions, sound sourcing, choreography, ballet ephemera, etc.

I am admittedly more of a fan of his early works like Sea Wolf Leviathan and Thousands of Dead Gods, but the absolute fanaticism of the ballet era is undeniable. Even newer releases that I do not find as sonically appealing due to the ultra detailed examination  of crackle and certain tones are fascinating in their overall scope and vision. It is hard to say anything that hasn't already been said about The Rita, but even those who may not be fans of his particular brand of noise have to appreciate the utterly insane dedication and immersion in the concepts he explores.

Also I chuckled a bit as he lists so many industrial releases after the talk of the "KEEP INDUSTRIAL OUT OF HARSH NOISE" campaign. I understand the point he was making, of course. Also his defense of sub-genres is certainly food for thought. I have always thought that endless reduction into sub-sub-sub genres was embarrassing, but he makes a good point here! Perhaps after all it is simply the product of obsessive listening and one's attempts to distill their interests into the most reduced state to produce the most satisfaction. I think where his "subgenre-fication" differs from most is that it's actually a product of intention. The manifestos, hard rules, deep analysis of the walls of noise. Most micro genres are just the product of too much time spent on the internet by my estimation. If they were all to be developed by the aforementioned methods, perhaps they would have more weight.

Quote from: NerveGas on March 22, 2022, 11:16:13 PM
Also I chuckled a bit as he lists so many industrial releases after the talk of the "KEEP INDUSTRIAL OUT OF HARSH NOISE" campaign.

Yeah, and so did Oskar, haha. To me it seemed sort of expected, since Sam has always praised these artists/albums.

There is moment when they talk about noise, that is sort of unrecognizable. Idea being that should/could one remember the patterns of noise release. Listening enough of something, and you just might learn how it goes. For me, noise that is memorable, is good thing. I was talking with one friend who said that he was listening so much was it the 2000's album of Cazzodio, for some reason being among his favorite albums. Then giving it decade rest, and returning to album, but concluding that it just wasn't the same anymore, when you would know everything before it happened. Of course Cazzodio has more structure, composition, sheer musicality than pure noise. Anyways, he'd know each time what will come next. Every crashing metal percussion or rhythm loop burned in brain. So, he said, as great as it is, it no longer works out when there is no more surprises. Of course cd is keeper, but unlikely to hit the player frequently.
I got friend who said, he doesn't need to listen SLAYER anymore. Every classic Slayer album he can run in his brain, knowning how it goes. Instead greatest thrash albums, he'd listen something less good, hehe, as the good things are already immortalized in the brain and can not provide new impact.

What Sam is talking, that ideal would not be not to remember or memorize the album structure, but opposite. Be able to experience it repeatedly. It would be ideal that album can provide always the surprises. Sudden ruptures, gaps, snaps and such. It is nice perspective to noise. I recall when Lasse Marhaug said that there has been incidents like when radio played his noise, and he realised it was his work only after DJ mentioned what record it was. I'm quite sure I would recognize my own works from relatively small fragment, but it is also interesting point that do you have to? Does the noise, or HNW be identifiable and for what reasons? If it should be identifiable, does it apply to any situation, or is this kind of wrong way to approach it, when the usage of piece may not be meant to be some random background muzak coming from anonymous stream, but comprehensive piece, that includes physical object, artwork, liner-notes, perhaps even act of consciously purchasing it... and then the XX minutes of sort of anonymous unrecognizable crackling crusty sound that comes with all previously mentioned? It may be that material is not about "catchy song", but situation that one needs to submit for conscious and devoted listening.



(Like I noticed one Grunt "Hehku" track was in youtube. I do not put the advance tracks nor album online, as my intention was hoping that this would be only listened from CD, with the artwork. Sound also adjusted in ways that it works best on stand alone CD in its entirety, not meant to be on mixed playlist of as-loud-as-possible types of noise mastering. Stand alone CD would make listener to adjust volume desires to this piece in particular what will make it work better. It works fine, but not as intended when it was finalized)

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 23, 2022, 08:07:00 AM
should/could one remember the patterns of noise release. Listening enough of something, and you just might learn how it goes.

A few years ago someone, who shall be left me unnamed here, tried to pull my leg. I got what seemed to be the usual email to Team Boro, "Hey man, love your label, here's a soundcloud link, maybe you could..." yadayada. I guess I was just bored so for once I actually pressed the link. Fuck, this sounds really good! What are the odds!" Listened again. "Waaaait a minute, somethings familiar here..." Listened again. Yep. Treriksröset's Heteronormativ Musik... played in reverse. I sent the thing to Tommy who was amused and puzzled, as I recall it. The guy who sent the thing replied to me that he didn't mean to offend with his little prank. Just test how trained the noise listeners (mine in this case) ears were, and how much attention noise heads actually pay.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 23, 2022, 08:07:00 AM

Quote from: NerveGas on March 22, 2022, 11:16:13 PM
Also I chuckled a bit as he lists so many industrial releases after the talk of the "KEEP INDUSTRIAL OUT OF HARSH NOISE" campaign.

Yeah, and so did Oskar, haha. To me it seemed sort of expected, since Sam has always praised these artists/albums.

Oh yeah of course. No surprise necessarily. It makes perfect sense too. Whether directly or in some abstract sense, it's very easy to see how power electronics or industrial would be appealing medium given his interests sonically and thematically. And his appreciation for such acts has always been worn on his sleeve. As he said "KEEP INDUSTRIAL OUT OF HARSH NOISE" does not mean "everyone who listens to industrial is an idiot" haha!

Also I am not tapped into social media "scene" so I am unaware of anything regarding the statement or it's various interpretations by others. To me it was just the Treriksröset split cover art which I thought was great!

Love the skate talk.  Loved the Vancouver history lesson.

Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 24, 2022, 04:29:26 PM
Love the skate talk.

Same here. I had no idea Sam worked for Skull Skates. Or Barrier Kult. But looking at the graphic design of those brands really makes sense now as far as design choices and whatnot. This is probably my favorite WCN interview so far. Also really dug his top 5 contemporary noise projects...

Really glad to hear everyone has been enjoying the podcast, haven't had time to chime in on much here, but I read everything and appreciate the comments. The interview with Sam turned out particularly good. The numbers are going crazy too - over 1600 views in 3 days.

I want to take this opportunity to invite everyone who has been watching/listening and enjoying what I'm doing to support via Patreon. Chipping in a few € per month goes a long way for me, both symbolically and in a material sense, and at the moment, the number of supporters is quite out of proportion with the number of viewers. The weekly episode schedule is really intense for me to keep up with, so I'm really counting on your support to carry this on. I do also offer plenty of perks for those who support - exclusive material, private episodes of Noise On The Run, and discounts at the mailorder:

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Thanks,

Oskar

Industrial: "non-academic weird ass music, for a given value of weird ass"

New episode of Noise On The Run is out now:

"Talking Shit, or An Attempt To Address Underground Ethics"

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: WCN on March 26, 2022, 08:13:58 PM
"Talking Shit, or An Attempt To Address Underground Ethics"

Interesting shit talk, especially the first bit about the touring band sandwich. Maybe I've been in Japan too long, but it now feels natural to me that the headliner, invariably the out-of-towner, play last. (Masonna a definite exception!) Part of this tendency may be supported by the way shows are run, ie like clockwork, but I've never questioned it. Though I do recall once, years ago, when an audience member, possibly from Switzerland or France(?), rolled eyes at me at the headliner policy. I honestly didn't get what he was on about- isn't that how it's always done? (Well, I guess I do now, so apologies Swiss or French guy, if I appeared confused!)

I understood from the shit talk that the issue was (at least partly) about playing to an audience of fickle willingness to stick around. I've definitely seen this at crossover events, like the place is packed but once Zeni Geva leaves the stage motherfuckers just clear out. (Which at least from the point of view of someone who wants to see Mikawa freaking out would have been perfectly fine with me!) But don't know that I've ever really seen much of that at a proper noise show. Which I'd assumed was because motherfuckers were there for the headliner.

Would then be curious if there were other sorts of region-specific policies on line-ups, as I'm not sure the subject has ever been discussed.

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 27, 2022, 09:22:23 AM

Quote from: WCN on March 26, 2022, 08:13:58 PM
"Talking Shit, or An Attempt To Address Underground Ethics"

Interesting shit talk, especially the first bit about the touring band sandwich. Maybe I've been in Japan too long, but it now feels natural to me that the headliner, invariably the out-of-towner, play last. (Masonna a definite exception!) Part of this tendency may be supported by the way shows are run, ie like clockwork, but I've never questioned it. Though I do recall once, years ago, when an audience member, possibly from Switzerland or France(?), rolled eyes at me at the headliner policy. I honestly didn't get what he was on about- isn't that how it's always done? (Well, I guess I do now, so apologies Swiss or French guy, if I appeared confused!)

I understood from the shit talk that the issue was (at least partly) about playing to an audience of fickle willingness to stick around. I've definitely seen this at crossover events, like the place is packed but once Zeni Geva leaves the stage motherfuckers just clear out. (Which at least from the point of view of someone who wants to see Mikawa freaking out would have been perfectly fine with me!) But don't know that I've ever really seen much of that at a proper noise show. Which I'd assumed was because motherfuckers were there for the headliner.

Would then be curious if there were other sorts of region-specific policies on line-ups, as I'm not sure the subject has ever been discussed.

The idea of the headliner playing last has always seemed to be how it was in Michigan, outside of the exception that the local act drew more crowd than the touring act which might prompt them to play last in order to get more people to stay for the headliner. For a while in the mid 2000s when everything was very much on "punk time/Party time" it might be whoever was there played in that order, varying degrees of fucked up. And eventually devolved out of "cool kids" in the scene into some other bullshit hipster party that caused me to stop going to shows really, folks with rich parents and warehouses.

To me this was always the way it was done, though a good friend who puts on the bulk of the shows (which were always more on time) that I continue to go to (post corona are there even shows anymore?) would usually structure it:

Music style groups
Noise but not like harsh (or really harsh)
Headliner
Harshest of the harsh

So a "headliner" might play and then other people could get out before someone like Skin Graft did his set. Which is fine, like you mentioned with Mikawa. I remember seeing Caroliner play at a first Saturday at a museum back in 2008, place was packed full of hipsters and art folks. the other groups on the bill just got pushed out, never ended up playing. But Caroliner started playing and suddenly there were only like 25 or 30 people left of the 500+ or so that had been there, much better evening instantly. But the mixed bill seems like a model that works well and allowed for more time to sneak out back and talk shit durning the sets you cared less about, catch up with folks and I think due to the variation in styles brought a bit more cash at the end of the night to whoever was touring.

I haven't seen or heard of many all noise bills in a while unless its like a "fest" or "anniversary" style. I'm sure it happens but I've aged out and don't interact with the same people, plus the troniks forum was really essential for finding house shows/what was happening in the region etc, which is probably now all social media related business. I wonder if this is indicative of the larger National/International scene?

Episode 20 out now featuring Roman Leyva of SLIT THROATS, PLAGUE MOTHER and HARH TRUTHS podcast!

https://youtu.be/fNxoWss67b8
https://youtu.be/fNxoWss67b8
https://youtu.be/fNxoWss67b8

Quote from: Johann on March 27, 2022, 10:29:04 PM
I remember seeing Caroliner play at a first Saturday at a museum back in 2008, place was packed full of hipsters and art folks. the other groups on the bill just got pushed out, never ended up playing. But Caroliner started playing and suddenly there were only like 25 or 30 people left of the 500+ or so that had been there, much better evening instantly.

The most dramatic iteration of this I've personally born witness to was at a corporate (NTT) sponsored outdoor media-arts event. Absolutely packed, I'd estimate 3000 or more, couldn't get anywhere near the action. Merzbow comes on and suddenly I'm walking against a stream of people beelining in the opposite direction. Remember standing right in front of a massive speaker stack, the body literally shaking with the intense sound pressure, sharing the space with literally one or two other dudes, one of whom I recognized as a regular Incaps goer.

Just got through The Rita and serendipitously found-

Quote from: Tommy Carlsson on December 17, 2009, 10:21:26 PM
Zone Nord -- Marche Noir/Denrees Diverses LP (private, 1983)
The word that comes to mind is ROUGH. The HNW freaks would probably dig this one a lot, with it's heavy crunchiness and delightful single-mindedness, hellbent for sonic destruction. The sound does not appear to be layered, but rather a pretty "simple" recording yet with undeniable power. Hard to find pressing of 286 copies. Why hasn't this been reissued yet?

Yeah.

Quote from: WCN on March 28, 2022, 07:44:22 PM
Episode 20 out now featuring Roman Leyva of SLIT THROATS, PLAGUE MOTHER and HARH TRUTHS podcast!

https://youtu.be/fNxoWss67b8

It's good episode again. Of course tough coming after The Rita piece, if listener will think "oh, this wasn't as good as last one".. Just like with doing zine, the challenge is often accepting that it would be impossible task of always coming with best issue. One after another. Just can't be done.

Roman mentions the long email received from me, about the remark he made about SI forum. I don't think message was unusually long, compared to what I write on forum. The feedback I write here, I sometimes forward to some artists. I recall I cut & pasted what I wrote on the forum, like I tend to comment a lot of podcast episodes and albums.

I've been told many people do not get more than thumbs up in social media and all they do kind of falls into void of silence.  So I do send some reviews or comments directly to artists or podcast makers. I did add few things that would be meant more personal, so it is not just spamming forum content on his email, hah.. But basically it is:

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 13, 2020, 07:21:04 PM
click link to go to old topic

+

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 28, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
click link to go to old topic

I did suggest to him that it would be nice, if he would just briefly explain his angle he is coming from and then make the conclusions he does. Of course we can guess it, but it feels that it would benefit podcast itself. When there was frequently return to revolve around the same, but not saying anything specific. Instead there would be long monologues vaguely trying to discuss what is problematic in community and not really saying anything specific.

After feedback, one can check episode HT 19 where he explains some basic things.

This WCN episode has a bit of that in middle. It starts good, it ends good, but somewhere in the middle, there is this odd phase of half finished sentences, pauses and sighs, remarks of all sorts of things that remain quite unclear what is attempted to be said?  This is the oddity, like quite lengthy talk related to problems in content of noise, and it goes deep enough to talk about how it is nothing new, not a problem of last 5 years, but it exists since the birth of genre. (Sort of original sin perhaps!?) But... then listener is never said what are the problematic sides of noise he is referring to? It is odd, since it would take like 5 seconds to say "because of who I am, and maybe due my hardcore background, I find it little annoying how accepted is ___, __ and ___  in noise scene". Now we basically have to guess what they are talking about.
It could be sexism, trumpist incels etc, but it may be something related to men associating with wolves, amazon prime skinheads and evola? haha. But I guess it is not easiest spot to be in front of webcam and.. explain your views in clear sentences.

In episode there are some decent talk about noise, noise scene, social capital existing in genre (although I am sure that is fairly marginal), personal relationship being shifted into kind of capitalist interaction, and so on. Some of these could have been expanded further as it would have been vastly more interesting than where clearly unable to talk about specifics.

I do agree with Oskar, that more noise podcasts would be good.  Even with more than weekly things to check out, I do hunger to hear other peoples ideas behind their work. Harsh Truths dealt with things from different angle than the others, so it certainly has a place there, if situation in world returns to possibility of face-to-face interviews.

the guy has clearly got a problem with power electronics as a genre and it seems he is on a kind of crusade against it. but it seems he is very focused on newer american power electronics, i could be wrong, but i never connected power electronics to 4chan losers who supported a neoliberal capitalist like trump, i would like to think that people into power electronics are smarter and have a more critical and nuanced view on art or life than that, but maybe it's because i'm from europe. i have no problem with "safe" communitarian/collectivist harsh noise about cute topics like japanese women or similar, but i must admit it doesn't interest me at all, but yeah, my perspective on noise and PE is obviously different, i always connected it to "dark"/"forbidden"/transgressive topics that the artist not necessarily supports himself, but "researches". well programmed synths and well placed offensive samples over contact mic in hand rumble that shouldn't pretend to be better than others "radio noises" for me any day, but to each his own. also i wonder if macronympha and skin crime gets a pass? macronympha did white music and whorechestra for example, also the picture in the pittsburgh record... skin crime did whorebutcher. also taint. are they trumpist incels in his view? i would like to know. as freak animal said, it's quite unclear who and what he is talking about, he should just name names if he really is serious about cleaning his scene or whatever (a very hardcore-ish approach indeed)

I'm not going to speak for Roman or try to unpack everything he said or you guys think he meant, but my understanding is the central thing that he and we were talking about and criticizing was not related to content or personal politics in noise/PE, but rather politics of how people involved in the "scene" or "community" or whatever you want to call it interact with each other.

Quote from: WCN on March 29, 2022, 09:36:22 PM
I'm not going to speak for Roman or try to unpack everything he said or you guys think he meant, but my understanding is the central thing that he and we were talking about and criticizing was not related to content or personal politics in noise/PE, but rather politics of how people involved in the "scene" or "community" or whatever you want to call it interact with each other.

Yes, that seemed to be big part of it, which I considered to be the interesting part of it. My comment above was describing why I send feedback to Harsh Truths back in 2020. That was meant to give details to those who may be listening now.

I don't think there is necessity to defend himself. Like said, all in all interview WTC was very good.

maybe i was just reading too much into it after seeing the guys instagram. he's obviously a joker, so i take it with a grain of salt regardless. and of course no need to defend yourself, even though my suspicion still is he probably isn't the biggest PE fan haha, but no problem at all.

Quote from: WCN on March 29, 2022, 09:36:22 PM
how people involved in the "scene" or "community" or whatever you want to call it interact with each other.

There is something in this (what I formerly mentioned just as decent talk) what could see worthy of even making topic of its own.

Roman is talking on this episode for example about people these days saying they have brand. There is so much of talk revolving around instagram, and as I'm not in there, I have fairly limited exposure to noise on IG. His conclusion included that people are leaning towards kind of expectation of having followers? Some sort of self importance? I am not sure to what extent idea of IG influencer should be applied to noise. We certainly know, that when you read review or recommendation by guy you trust to have taste, you may try to grab things. Many times in context of UG, its not the business transaction that includes "influencer" to get slice of income. It's more like UG fanzine tradition, where you tell to others, and others will interact with someone else. That is like core of underground networking. People pointing direction to others where to find something.

What Roman describes in one of the moments in the podcast, is the "IG influencer" way, where person feels important, just for being what s/he is. And because of that, everybody should follow and buy things.

I have noticed some of it, where people do seem to have very calculated idea what must be presented. Or they use certain method, not to be involved, but kind of above the crowd? Posting adverts, not following anything. Selling things, not buying. Playing gigs, but not watching other artists play. And so on. Missing interaction, where only dialogue happens in forms of providing kind of ...cautiously managed brand?

He talks about this connecting to worries about losing customers, friends, peers, etc. if the approach is broken, by merely presenting opinion or engaging into discussion about something.

It would be curious to hear from people, who are sort of.. trapped in this? One approach is, that of course it might be simply energy saving to stay out of drama and focus on what is important (like doing good noise). But how often it is merely based on being entrapped into idea that one can't be upsetting the "potential customer" or ruining opportunities?

I mean, it doesn't take that much to criticize ugliness of noise. But how difficult it was even for Roman to bring up the issues with that one hyped label. Everybody would be watching that trainwreck and nobody could say shit because trans people and social media tends to be explosive mix and it may not be good to be one who asks couple legit questions.

Can be split into another topic if seems necessary.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinlandCan be split into another topic if seems necessary.

This would also be a great topic to go into with more depth on the podcast, it's a long and difficult topic to fully unpack.

I'd like to, and will try to, ideally with a guest to discuss it with. I did a private episode of Noise On The Run recently for supporters where I scratch the surface with these topics.

Episode 21 of WCN Podcast with Alex Kmet of CLIMAX DENIAL out now!

https://youtu.be/h4-6GNWh7oE
https://youtu.be/h4-6GNWh7oE
https://youtu.be/h4-6GNWh7oE

Perhaps a bit technical issue.. or the slower delivery, this one had unusual amount of both guys talking over eachother, hah. Of course it is not ruining anything, but seems like long distant calls do have few seconds delays and one isn't entirely sure if one had stopped talking or not?

Climax Denial perhaps good start to get some more "industrial" things between the harsh noise. I think he did open good possibilities for further discussion. Like when comparing what C.D. says his method is vs. what Keith / Taint & Mania has mentioned his approach being. In short, C.D. would describe his sound creation sessions being quite taxing and exhausting, as it is mentally being there. One can listen his interview to hear how he describes the session. Anyways, Keith had mentioned that in moment of sound creation, there is no anger or such emotions. Topics can be what they are, but its relation to sound is different. Alex also mentioned that its not really question that one would be better or worse, just different ways to approach.
I lean vastly stronger to direction what Keith has. I do not feel hate and anger, disgust or any sort of "dark" emotions (at least what I would consider such) in moment of creating my work. For me, noise ain't kind of catharsis or temporary emotion. It is creation based on who you are. I don't need to "get angry", to think certain ways, or "be provocative" to deal with or be interested in certain things that exists in the world. Expressions is what it is, because artist is what it is. Therefore there is no need for mood or specific state of mind. He can be just what he is. Creation may be energetic loud noise bliss, undercurrent of personality is there without necessity to present it like enactment of emotions.  Those who do it, I don't mind. Like Alex says, I think its not question which is better which is worse approach, they are just different.


I personally don't think the vile power electronics has become less dominant or less popular. It just feels that sub-genre thinking is something that will proceed further and further, and therefore people will basically see the stuff they are surrounded by. And as addition, as I mentioned many times, social media is barely place where one can push explicit content. I am not surprised that people would not be exposed to nasty PE, if their experience of genre happens via platforms where such material can't really exist and where it is swiftly cleaned away.

Quote from: brutalist_tapes on March 29, 2022, 08:57:51 PMalso i wonder if macronympha and skin crime gets a pass? macronympha did white music and whorechestra for example, also the picture in the pittsburgh record... skin crime did whorebutcher. also taint.

https://youtu.be/REKYfU5hTUw (https://youtu.be/REKYfU5hTUw)

I can't speak on the others, but it's seemingly very clear Roemer isn't entirely what people think he is.

Quote from: GenitalStigmata on April 06, 2022, 09:46:29 AM

Quote from: brutalist_tapes on March 29, 2022, 08:57:51 PMalso i wonder if macronympha and skin crime gets a pass? macronympha did white music and whorechestra for example, also the picture in the pittsburgh record... skin crime did whorebutcher. also taint.

https://youtu.be/REKYfU5hTUw (https://youtu.be/REKYfU5hTUw)

I can't speak on the others, but it's seemingly very clear Roemer isn't entirely what people think he is.

oh dude, i never thought that roemer was right wing, or skin crime or taint from that matter (keith was a libertarian i think i read..? but whatever) my point was more if it's even allowed writing/creating about certain topics anymore. wasn't slogun also attacked? he doesn't seem very right wing either. but i think i misunderstood the roman dude a bit, so nevermind.

Posted this elsewhere, but taking a week or two off airing the podcast due to some health issues. Will be back in full force ASAP. In the mean time, there will be some new content on the Patreon this week.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: GenitalStigmata on April 06, 2022, 09:46:29 AM
it's seemingly very clear Roemer isn't entirely what people think he is.

Not quite sure which people you are referring to.

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on April 12, 2022, 03:54:04 PM

Quote from: GenitalStigmata on April 06, 2022, 09:46:29 AM
it's seemingly very clear Roemer isn't entirely what people think he is.

Not quite sure which people you are referring to.

The younger generation (maybe including university educated, like Roman) is triggered really easily. Ambiguity in art is no longer tolerated, they want very clear boundaries; and ideologies expressed/explained in very clear and identifiable ways. At least in that part of the American Midwest. This doesn't seem to be such a problem in European scene or Japan/Asia.

I was thinking about this over the last years, if you listen to a lot of the Harsh Truth Podcast or meet those folks (mostly from midwest) they are all "crew" kid straight edge hardcore kids and kids who listened to shitty Christian hardcore, scenes that were very much steeped in uniformity and clear social/ideological boundaries with a touch of performative "violence" or a weak posturing. The influence of which is present in the sound and approach, the same conformity to identify is conveyed in the noise which is mostly just weak walls and an attempt to express a clear political ethos.

Gone are the days where you'd have Con-Dom material being used to collaborate with both a project like Control Resistance and Militia. Kids today are taking sides and afraid to cross them, they wanna know who's serious about what, and if they don't know they don't touch it. Same with all the folks afraid of listening to Current 93 or Death In June.

Inversely, I think when Roman is talking about Special-Interest and his perceived criticism of Power Electronics etc, I think he's less talking about Taint, Macronypmha, Grunt etc and probably more about this rise of reactionary noise and PE projects that are attempting to come off as super ideologically right. Most of which I think get ignored, the New Releases section is full of dorks putting up Bandcamp links to their "degenerate/nasty/harsh" projects. No one ever even responds. Maybe it's an access thing, in the sense there is more involvement, but there seems to be a clear lack of individuality that's more present than even 10 years ago.

Out now: AFTERBLAST Episode 1 with Erik Nystrand of CAPERS

Erik Nystrand of CAPERS, a previous guest on WCN Podcast, joins me again to expand on some the ideas he touched upon in his interview: particularly, his thoughts on noise being "isolated" from other art forms, and the general poverty of language when it comes to writing about or discussing noise.

AFTERBLAST is a new series of follow-up conversations with previous guests of the podcast. We'll expand on certain topics and explore new ones. Less a formal interview with the artist, and more lively discussions about topics close to their hearts, noise related and otherwise.

This series is part of a new project called WCN TV that will air every other week, Mondays 18:00 CET. This will consist of various unique series, such as AFTERBLAST, Noise On The Run, with more in the works.

WCN TV is available exclusively to Patreon supporters, so sign up to support and get access!
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

WCN Podcast, featuring in-depth artist interviews, will air every alternate week at the same time as always.

It was a good talk, I think! Hope I wasn't talking too much out of my ass. I did forget to say that there's alot of good writing out there, on forums and other places. I've really enjoyed the longer articles lately published on the Special Interests website, for example. More of that, please!

Quote from: Baglady on April 18, 2022, 08:30:17 PM
It was a good talk, I think! Hope I wasn't talking too much out of my ass. I did forget to say that there's alot of good writing out there, on forums and other places. I've really enjoyed the longer articles lately published on the Special Interests website, for example. More of that, please!

Good talk indeed. Especially the Worth talk and descriptions of evocative noise. Have always thought Worth's sound could be likened to being trapped in some bizarre malfunctioning mechanical maze, so the video game interpretation made perfect sense. Listened to Blinder LP yesterday, so it was fresh in my mind. The video game terms are not what I would have necessarily arrived at, but that's why I enjoy hearing other's thoughts on this type of thing that move a little further past the "crunch" or "ripping" style of descriptions. I think there is a place for simple descriptions of brutal noise, and I don't need everything to viewed on an analytical level. But if noise is evocative to the listener, I am happy to hear what deeper thoughts it inspires.

Out now! Episode 22 with Romain Perrot of VOMIR!

https://youtu.be/21mfUwydZz4
https://youtu.be/21mfUwydZz4
https://youtu.be/21mfUwydZz4

Really good one. Among best episodes so far. I like the french way of talking about arsch noise!
I doubt I have been really hateful against Vomir, but perhaps sometimes at least realist about how many of his releases I need to own. He describes quite well the old situation, where it didn't really matter if releases were fairly similar, as nobody was likely to get a lot of very limited and badly distributed releases. It is perhaps more contemporary "problem" that similarity of releases is even necessary to discuss. Well, not necessary, but it can be question in someone head when thinking that there is access to way way larger amount of material that you could ever have time to listen to. As opposed to old times, when you had access to fairly limited amount of items.

I can also relate to his enthusiasm on Japanese noise-for-sake-of-noise approach. In my own case, 93-94 was kind of "political" if one wants to look at them that way. Then 95-96 with influence of Japanese noise, most work was abstract, bizarre, oddities... until from 1997 it was just situation that it seemed obvious that trying to avoid themes and topics, artwork and expressions that was not good. When certain things were always matter of interest outside the noise, it felt odd they would be excluded from expression.
I feel that there is quite good situation in noise and PE, that while Vomir mentions there is nothing he is saying in the noise, I think even noise that does say something, can be ignored or used any way listener wishes. Most what could appear dark or vile, can be experienced just energetic and uplifting. What ever words are being said, barely reduces listener to passive receiver of indoctrination, but they may feel wide variety of things. Just like the thoughts that emerge from pure abstract noise.

Recommended episode!

Quote from: Johann on April 18, 2022, 07:03:30 PM

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on April 12, 2022, 03:54:04 PM

Quote from: GenitalStigmata on April 06, 2022, 09:46:29 AM
it's seemingly very clear Roemer isn't entirely what people think he is.

Not quite sure which people you are referring to.

The younger generation (maybe including university educated, like Roman) is triggered really easily. Ambiguity in art is no longer tolerated, they want very clear boundaries; and ideologies expressed/explained in very clear and identifiable ways. At least in that part of the American Midwest. This doesn't seem to be such a problem in European scene or Japan/Asia.

I was thinking about this over the last years, if you listen to a lot of the Harsh Truth Podcast or meet those folks (mostly from midwest) they are all "crew" kid straight edge hardcore kids and kids who listened to shitty Christian hardcore, scenes that were very much steeped in uniformity and clear social/ideological boundaries with a touch of performative "violence" or a weak posturing. The influence of which is present in the sound and approach, the same conformity to identify is conveyed in the noise which is mostly just weak walls and an attempt to express a clear political ethos.

Gone are the days where you'd have Con-Dom material being used to collaborate with both a project like Control Resistance and Militia. Kids today are taking sides and afraid to cross them, they wanna know who's serious about what, and if they don't know they don't touch it. Same with all the folks afraid of listening to Current 93 or Death In June.

Inversely, I think when Roman is talking about Special-Interest and his perceived criticism of Power Electronics etc, I think he's less talking about Taint, Macronypmha, Grunt etc and probably more about this rise of reactionary noise and PE projects that are attempting to come off as super ideologically right. Most of which I think get ignored, the New Releases section is full of dorks putting up Bandcamp links to their "degenerate/nasty/harsh" projects. No one ever even responds. Maybe it's an access thing, in the sense there is more involvement, but there seems to be a clear lack of individuality that's more present than even 10 years ago.

This seems to echo what Vivenza was saying in one of his interviews that a large part of industrial/noise/japanoise seems to be rooted into pop/rock/punk/metal etc culture. He called the artefacts "weak" and artists relying on cheap antics instead of taking further "noise" as conceptualised by Luigi Russolo.


As a matter of fact the genre and related genres have done their cycle by late the 90's. Nothing new under the sun. Even the HNW, you can find traces of it in old Incapacitants records from the 80's such as "Repo".
All we who are involved in the scene by making effort to create and release new music under "Noise" or "Industrial" are in preservation mode. Just keeping the tradition going on. The evolution is minuscule.

Romain says new age ambience suggests that the listener must think of happiness, beauty and love. I think for a lot of people harsh noise wall can put the listener into more of a negative headspace. Even though he is not telling you to think that.

Quote from: morbid_dyspepsia on April 27, 2022, 10:30:49 AM
Romain says new age ambience suggests that the listener must think of happiness, beauty and love. I think for a lot of people harsh noise wall can put the listener into more of a negative headspace. Even though he is not telling you to think that.

A listener imparts their own experience and emotional baggage on what they listen to. In doing so a listener may come to associate certain sounds/albums with certain emotional states/moods; ever not been able to listen to albums after a breakup? They probably weren't the noise records though haha.  Sound in itself is not really emotional, it's just a neutral plane that we attach experience to.

It seems likely some of HN or HNW listeners, especially those discovering the genre, probably tend to put on those releases at times where they are trying to achieve some type of catharsis or ruminate in zone for any number of reasons. But those types probably do the same with punk and metal records. I personally just remember having my mind blown, I'd stare at the tape or CD and not understand what was happening and I kept going back over and over until it revealed itself. I'm sure I basked in stuff that bummed me out to, but I was bummed out. Noise at finest just blew and blows my mind over and over.

I don't think most people are recording in these negative headspace either, even if the negativity is the impetus or inspiration for the recording. Doing anything in depression or anger is difficult and it will probably not yield the best results. I think some people may use play as a way to interrupt and override a mental experience, like a guitarist, and in that sense I'm sure it works and creates a catharsis.

I'd say for most fanatics of noise the experience of listening and creating is largely ecstatic, when kindred people meet and get together at these shows they geek out massively talking about tapes, releases and live experiences they've had or equipment they used or have seen. This is what I assume Romain is talking about, and why things like this forum, Oskars' efforts at recording these interviews and live shows/festivals are so important.

I think Vomirs comment on new age ambient type of thing, was most of all valid criticism against lack of artistic merit of those type of works?
A lot of that type of ambient muzak is really like muzak. Functional sound, created to be played in background in certain moments. As example, you can pick up from youtube all sorts of "10 hours or relaxing ambient" -clips. There is no album name. There is no artist name. It is just functional sounds, as dull as choosing "10 hours of coffee house jazz", delivering you chunk of 10 hours, some sort of semi-synthetic going-nowhere background musak.
I think criticism was towards that element, not that someone would find something utterly joyful or positive. I don't personally find noise usually dark or negative at all. Right now listening Merzbow "Storage" and it is most definitely full of energy and joy!

Only halfway through episode so forgive me if I am misinterpreting anything.

However, in response to the above comment... noise can be dark, negative, etc. I am absolutely fine with that. But I find more often than not, it is due to thematic attachment or imagery. Harsh noise itself can most often be a blank slate or perhaps the opposite; a well of endless interpretation. I see no reason to think that wall noise would be predisposed to putting people into a negative headspace unless they were already trying to dwell on negative thoughts. With that said, I am sure you are right in a sense, and it can have that effect on people. It just not an effect I necessarily relate to or would think is particularly common. Harsh brutal sound does not equal negative emotion to me. If it does for some, that is fine of course. As many have stated, the harshest noise is often quite joyous. Lasse Marhaug comes to mind or to use a newer act as an example, The New Boyfriends. Even Marhaug releases I have that have images of strange pornography or "edgy" references hardly seem dark. Of course, the man's catalog is massive and I have only heard a fraction of his releases, but enough to say I have some familiarity.

Listened to The Haters - Future Cheers reissue LP just this morning actually and found it to also have a similar feeling. And the accompanying quote from the release seems appropriate.

"I destroy out of joy, not despair. I don't destroy out of anger. I destroy out of curiosity.... My noise acts as a kind of audio account or authentic evidence of this ceaseless, perpetual bittersweet happiness we call entropy."

"My name is Vomir, it means to puke.  There is a bag over my head.  I take myself with irony, and I don't care."

Perfect!

Great interview.

I absolutely love his "Le Cloaque Apres La Romance" Trou Aux Rats album from last year (AtWarWithFalseNoise) - a double CD album of evolving drone synth, melancholia and stoned death reverb. I love that he can put out stuff like this alongside Vomir.

OUT NOW: AFTERBLAST #2
Sam of PHAGE TAPES and Taylor of SCREAM & WRITHE / ABSURD EXPOSITOON join me to talk more in depth about the ins and outs of running a label and mailorder. Lots of gems and trade secrets brought out into the open.

Preview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDsolJFkT-o

Access WCN TV: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

EXTRA! EXTRA! Bonus episode out now!
"Moment Of Truth"
Mack Chami joins me again to set the record straight on his power electronics project KOUFAR and take back the narrative on his works dealing with his identity as a first generation Lebanese American.

https://youtu.be/agR3pXqnmL4
https://youtu.be/agR3pXqnmL4
https://youtu.be/agR3pXqnmL4

Decent episode. Gradually grows better till end.

There are moments when both of the guys present here, mention that some of the themes are bigger, not just about Koufar, but possible to apply more universally. This is something that could be remembered when being annoyed that someone is not aware of all things and has to make assumptions and discuss merely based on gut feeling and limited knowledge currently available.

As example, it would be odd to demand people knowledge of each religious group of Lebanon to be allowed to discuss about something related to things happening there. Why? Lets say we extend this to any other country. What we know of Bolivia? What we know of Sweden? Who are Spanish people? What are languages spoken in Spain or Italy? and so on and on.. I am sure you'd find now some Finns who might give you hard time if not knowing and appreciating  indigenous people of this country. While I might be realistic enough to say, why would anyone know or care of this country languages, ethnicity or history. What do we know in the end? At least some may be genuinely interested to learn - even sparked from realizing how little one knows about something that appeared interesting.


When not seeing the reality beyond your own perspective, one can imagine discussion, that could go something like this:
-You can't get what I'm dealing with this release
-Well, you can't know what people "get"
-You have not been through all things I have
-well, you have not been through all things I or other people have
-You don't know all the hardships I've gone though...
-pff... well, what can I say? We can go on like this for all day...

My assumption is,  that most grown up people have eventually realized, that most of hardships and nuisances and misunderstandings in life are pretty common. Bridges get burned, relationships ruined, people calling you with names, people not giving chance based on whatever quality you may be considered to have. Losing good friends, getting into all sorts of trouble, etc. One can pick up plenty of things to connect it to. Be it gender, race, disability, age, aesthetic taste or whatever. I would assume it is fact, that one simply has to accept is there is no possibility that one is "widely understood" among people who barely care or would somehow control the narrative how their works must be commented or experienced. Interview is like this, certainly gives Koufar possibility to make his perspective heard and give depth to releases what is positive indeed. If we talk about power electronics in wider sense, like the realism was concluded to be in the episode: people will relate to in certain ways, from their own point of view, regardless what artists would be doing. Very often negatively. That's how it goes.

Con-Dom gets mentioned few times. The latest phase of gigs he was doing, regardless of being around for 30+ years, one of his European shows was cancelled. Organizer had approached about needing statement about two first Con-Dom tapes. Reason was that unexplained use of swastika on release cover ain't the thing they can accept. Instead of explanation, Con-Dom simply told he'll skip the gig. Which was of course right thing to do.

Like in case of Con-Dom, asking clarification or statement about "racism", could be replied that this ain't noise for dummies. Work discussed this for decades, and it ain't worth to discuss if the questions are dumb. If you really get something, it is different type of experience than confirmation or being told. That makes me wonder how many do think most of power electronics is some kind of identity politics or lecture? I would assume there is very very small % of entire genre what falls into such category. I don't think we need personal history, to get what artists expresses, unless he is talking more about himself, than something else out there.

I suppose there is vastly growing idea that artist must be somehow "be real", on level some learn from, for example, hip hop? I think that approach is a bit counter productive when applied to art in general.
Friend of mine mentioned that recently people has been demanding Laibach to give their clear stand about Russia/Ukraine war. Hmmm.. Demanding Laibach clear political stand? jeeeesus...

In same way, I don't think Koufar needs to really explain himself to the haters out there, but if he chooses to, I would recommend all the fans to listen to it as it can give a lot of nuggets of info & background for the releases what ain't anywhere else.

Out now! Episode 23 with Rose Actor-Engel of APOLOGIST and NO RENT RECORDS!

https://youtu.be/7wyVTRsL0vw
https://youtu.be/7wyVTRsL0vw
https://youtu.be/7wyVTRsL0vw

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 06, 2022, 02:10:32 PM

I don't think Koufar needs to really explain himself to the haters out there

I never wanted to, but the facts are such.

I have a God Is War album coming out on Closed Casket Activities this year. Not to also mention its going to come out at the same time when I go on tour with Blood Incantation, Full of Hell, Mortuous, and Vermin Womb later this year. When the tour was announced, that same evening it was brought to my agent and Dylan from Foh that I'm "promoting fascist ideologies" and so I had to do this in order to keep moving forward. To even quote Blood Meridian "These anonymous creatures, he said, may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing."

The fact is I want to be a full time musician and do great things like take care of my wife and InshAllah future family with it. Unlike so many of my PE peers with office jobs/solid working class can't relate or understand that through music is the only way I can truly succeed (because I always fucking have, my work has always been growing and hasn't stopped). Been working in retail for too long to just hop into an office job without knowing someone and frankly I don't want to work a fucking regular job, never have. I think to be branded and blacklisted over being labeled by things that people on this board revel in is fucking moronic, and a waste of my talent. So this is why I did it. I wanted to finally have an official statement on it so idiots can be directed to it.

Like I mentioned in the first interview though, some folks want to be a big catfish in a small pond and Im trying to be a great white shark in the ocean of this life. So this is how I must move.

May Allah and your agent secure a prosperous future for you and your wife

Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on May 09, 2022, 09:13:12 PM
I wanted to finally have an official statement on it so idiots can be directed to it.

Like I mentioned in the first interview though, some folks want to be a big catfish in a small pond and Im trying to be a great white shark in the ocean of this life. So this is how I must move.

I wish you good luck. It's noble one to have higher expectations, believe in himself, and set bigger goals. If that's what he really wants ...

If that was for the idiots then you did nothing, sorry. Actually you fed them. I am not sure what's bigger satisfication for them, to destroy their 'target' or to bring him in that position so he has to explain ? In any case i dont think your statement -what you say in it- means anything to them. If it has any use as such is to direct organizers / bigger labels to it once they tell you they have 'complaints' , there are 'problems' etc. To save your time and energy.

I wont tell how you 'must move' , dont know, your life, your bussiness. But sharks dont move this way. This i know.

Quote from: Theodore on May 10, 2022, 01:02:24 PM

Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on May 09, 2022, 09:13:12 PM
I wanted to finally have an official statement on it so idiots can be directed to it.

Like I mentioned in the first interview though, some folks want to be a big catfish in a small pond and Im trying to be a great white shark in the ocean of this life. So this is how I must move.

I wish you good luck. It's noble one to have higher expectations, believe in himself, and set bigger goals. If that's what he really wants ...

If that was for the idiots then you did nothing, sorry. Actually you fed them. I am not sure what's bigger satisfication for them, to destroy their 'target' or to bring him in that position so he has to explain ? In any case i dont think your statement -what you say in it- means anything to them. If it has any use as such is to direct organizers / bigger labels to it once they tell you they have 'complaints' , there are 'problems' etc. To save your time and energy.

I wont tell how you 'must move' , dont know, your life, your bussiness. But sharks dont move this way. This i know.

The person Mack is talking about backed off after the interview.

Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on May 09, 2022, 09:13:12 PM
can't relate or understand [...] so idiots can be directed to it.

seems like a real catch 22

Quote from: Theodore on May 10, 2022, 01:02:24 PM
If it has any use as such is to direct organizers / bigger labels to it once they tell you they have 'complaints' , there are 'problems' etc. To save your time and energy.

I wont tell how you 'must move' , dont know, your life, your bussiness. But sharks dont move this way. This i know.

You figured it out with the first part, that second part...nice try.

So back to the topic at hand - how about the interview with Rosie?

New episode is good. Had to listen it in couple parts. Beginning felt dragging a bit or perhaps it was more my lack of knowledge of artists, but it got good. Lots of topic what could be discussed further.

I am quite surprised Crumer would live off the No Rent label, hah! Feels like it is somewhat connected to discussion of "noise success".

I would guess people starting or even running labels may benefit from this and some "business oriented" discussions. Bandcamp critic is good to hear.

In early part there was some talk about how Rose seems to be quite less known - outside the immediate circle of followers. She mentioned not ever sending review copies to press. Which seems a bit amusing, as I find myself asking... what press? Is there anymore press that exists, where one could get attention? With fairly limited runs of tapes, I think one quickly is ruled out of certain possibilities. There is some talk how method of doing 100 tapes, breaking even, little profit and moving on works out. It does, but for example I personally find more interesting than the immediate sales, the potential that can be there. Like you can find Freak Animal CD's from multiple Japanese record stores. Who buys them there? I have no idea! It's crowd that exists. Or that you can walk into Finnish music store chain desk and ask them to have Nicole 12 CD for next day and it can be done. As ridiculous as it sounds. It's just that against all the expectations, against any sense, one would see what if you try is there potential beyond audience who is in direct contact this week or this month. It is certainly consuming approach and works only if you got storage and patience. Tapes are neat, but if you try to arrange distribution there is certainly pro's and con's.


There was talk about a bit more centralized noise information. If that is correct way to put it. Several years ago, there was bubbling under idea of Special Interests as website. A bit more complex platform that it is now. Idea was, that why not have like proper media, where you'd have news of labels re-posted, reviews, interviews, interviews done by other sites, videoclip found anywhere. Sort of centralized site where info that is scattered all over the place can be found. Then list of potential flaws of idea came clear. You include wrong kind of content, and other guys don't want to be associated. You deal just that kind of stuff and big part of genre is ignored, which ain't good either. Publishing news of label X, but not willing to publish news of label Y, because they suck.. and soon you alienate bunch of people based on perhaps nothing else but personal taste. And so on and on. Just the idea of trying to keep up, multiple times a week, and I would know you will burn out. If it would be collective project, there would be some potential, but eventually it might be like most things: Enthusiastic early phase, and then regressing quickly into something else.

......
Forum, as many flaws as it may have, is something that this all can be done. It ain't the same thing, but theoretically, anyone who registered in, can promote, post, talk, introduce, remind of whatever things noise. Their own, or things they just found out. It is not centralized. It is still one of the many marginal places, but somehow moderately centralizes things like news, ads, selling items, announcing items, that hopefully won't disappear in abundance of streams.

One advice for keeping eye of forum quick, is to use:
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?action=recent
Found from bottom of front page, Special Interest - Info Center part: "View the most recent posts on the forum."

That way one doesn't have to open every single topic, but click this one thing and can view all messages in order how the appear. If you see something you want to check better, just click topic to navigate.
..........


Rose mentions that she could think right away 10 other women who should have been "before her" on the podcast. Well, I'd vote for Rachel Slurr to invited!

Out now - Episode 24 with Wyatt Howland of SKIN GRAFT!!!!

https://youtu.be/NWWQHoG3r40
https://youtu.be/NWWQHoG3r40
https://youtu.be/NWWQHoG3r40

Awesome episode with Wyatt. Appreciated all the midwest talk as I'm located in Michigan and could kind of relate, though I missed out on that mid 2000s golden era. I think his description of what makes midwest noise unique is totally accurate. Also got a big laugh out of the sold out "noise gig". Any update on who that was?

I do have bunch of Skin Graft stuff, but my original early "dislike", if you can call it that, was that there was already noise project Skin-Graft in Finland since mid 90's. Very little on Freak Animal, but full tape Peter Zinckens (odal) Nihilistic Recordings probably equally unnoticed. Of course it is unrealistic to expect people would know all the project names before internet made it possible, hehe.. Nevertheless... for me, it was two bands, same name (with one having dash between). Now that the Finnish project is long gone (now member in Sadio), plus USA Skin Graft certainly proven to be master in his craft, this is more like anecdote from early impressions, hehe...

In this episode, it's good to hear Wyatt got away from destructive habits. When I was younger, I didn't drink nor do drugs. Everybody around me was, but I never had problem with saying no thanks. Now that I am older, I have lots of catching up to do, so most friends quit excessive drinking and all sorts of healthy-lifestyles and wellness is so trendy it gets on my nerves. I don't see much difference either way. For me it is very much possible to avoid level of lobotomized drinking. It really is damaging for noise making if it is drugs or alcohol that makes you think it's amazing and later on the clarity will reveal how it lacks on all levels that needs careful attention.

It was amusing when Oskar sounded so surprised when Wyatt said he'd prefer listening noise over making it. Of course question would perhaps need elaboration, as we're talking about two quite different things. I would say, true noise fans are listeners. They are also listeners of their own works? For making noise, I feel there can be vast variety of reasons, but to actually listen to noise beyond occasional curiosity, from that crowd you'll find the noise fanatics.

I was surprised that people working in vinyl industry would not know that there IS new vinyl factories. You can buy machines that are currently manufactured. Anyone wanting to have their own factory going on, Canadian company produces the presses (one fully automatic machine that does all by itself, other more "primitive" where operator does bunch of work) :
https://www.viryltech.com
Finnish vinyl factory (who should be up & running during 2022) has one of these. While the press itself, ain't that bad. If you got money to invest into new biz, it could be doable, but you need all the other things. Mastering, metalworks, printworks, and so on. Even mere logistics may be surprising. I think the Italian factory where I did bunch of things and OEC has been doing too, is also new presses?
Actual current level technology press is probably fairly easy to use compared to 50's machinery.

New episode of album reiviews out now on WCN TV, talking about:

BLIND DATE - Thank You (Usagi Productions)
NUORI VERI - Kadonnut Maailmankuva (Aussaat)
JASON CRUMER - Thin Ice (Breathing Problem Productions)
SEEPAGE - Second Nature (Phage Tapes)

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

listening to the youtube clip...

I've never heard of review for pay.  Amazing times.

Quote from: Zeno Marx on May 30, 2022, 09:29:16 PM
I've never heard of review for pay.

EDIT: The cases mentioned were not in the noise scene - I guess more of the EBM world?

Quote from: WCN on May 30, 2022, 09:46:44 PM

Quote from: Zeno Marx on May 30, 2022, 09:29:16 PM
I've never heard of review for pay.

What about a zine?

I've never heard of it at all.  Maybe something at the level of The Wire?  But even that would be surprising.  What do I know though?  I almost never leave the DIY circuit.

I would assume that IF it would be possible, it could happen more.

For example metal music, it is very very common. There are basically couple ways. Either label/band needs to buy adspace to get covered in reviews. Or, in other hand, magazine or platform will flat out tell you the prices. I've been told popular youtube music reviewers will ask often fee from bands who benefit of given attention.

As small as the market area is, there are online metal media in Finland, who have fixed rates, how much it will cost to be reviewed and how much for interview. Their "journalists" have been known to approach bands in style of "your debut album is pretty interesting, I'd like to write about it, but...." and there is pricelist one needs to ponder would the publicity be worth it.
One more way is basically pay the promoter. You pay XXXusd for the "promo guy", who has the established connections to all sorts of magazines and online portals, and he'll prepare the starter pack for music-journalist-dummies, who'll then most of all cut & paste PR speech as "review" or "news" and post all your bandcamp and stream links. In some circles, it means that the PR guy is the guy who is associate & friend with a lot of guys anyways, so in theory you pay for one guy, who almost can guarantee that your reviews & news will then appear in all places he has foot between the door. You may not pay direct to media itself, but kind of one of guys in the system nevertheless.

None of this has to be really mainstream in usual sense of word. It works is surprisingly small scale music culture.

OUT NOW! WCN Podcast with Sam Torrest of CRAWL OF TIME / KOUFAR / TERROR CELL UNIT

https://youtu.be/NrC49Dcz3dw
https://youtu.be/NrC49Dcz3dw
https://youtu.be/NrC49Dcz3dw

Don't forget, WCN Podcast is also available on all audio podcast platforms if that's your thing!

Awesome episode, good touching on the current state of the industrial/PE scene being torn between remaining stagnant and tied to the same sound vs. people who want to push it forward into an evolving set of ideas.  Always good insight into the state of things, and I appreciate the shout-outs of my projects.  He's one of the people making the most interesting and forward thinking music right now, and I don't say that just with the bias of being a friend and collaborator. 

Been for week out of finland, out of EU and wasn't sure if youtube stream would cost a lot ot not, so waited wifi connections to listen this.

Good episode. It has a lot of things what one could catch for further discussion. Not only direct comment to Sam but like in podcats, people tend to be vague and no names or too direct details are being said...

Episode does have pretty good balance and laid back vibe. Sound decent, editing probably been easy with this. Also content. There is the personal stuff, but also art, gear and compositional process gets dealt with.

Oddity what I hear is the strange... kind of paradox of being kind of technically advanced, but then explaining the cluelessness of recording process itself. And settling on "from mixer via usb to computer". Generally, I do not like that type of sound. Or lets say, I do not prefer it. Been guity of digital line recordings many times, for sure. It is this odd habit that you know it will be sucky, but for reason or another it happens. In my case, mixer output to digital recorder. When listening the results, it sure was fast and easy, but it just quite ain't what it was supposed to be and how it sounded like from blasting speakers... Next time, one knows few extra steps can and should be taken.

Sam tells about returning to some old tricks, tape loops etc.

I don't really judge on digital and anaglue. I would guess most of my stuff, since 1995, been always about 50/50. I think it goes more into ear and taste.

Many times when people talk about advancing power electronics, and then I hear what is being done, I feel like we are talking about oil painting vs windows 95 paint. Sure, the latter was new. It was thing that some old master never used, but come on... haha. A lot of best gear, is kind of... not new or old, but... timeless? You can still today, use musique concrete and 60's electro acoustic methods and sound futuristic and out there, while the 5-10 year old new power electronics sounds dated and old. 

When you are really at the core of expression, you got the personality and skill and most of all ear & taste to recognize both what you want, how to achieve it. To recognize what fraction of session makes that great 3 seconds loop that will sound fresh now, and in 10 years and can't be recreated by anyone. That there ain't a pedal, synth or settings that makes that sound, but just the creators ability to recognize something when it emerges.

When I look at what is happening with PE, I don't see almost any old school PE out there. I see nobody doing Whitehouse, nobody doing Ramleh, nobody doing SJ. Musically or sonically. If there is, I'd like to see some names dropped, or won't believe.
What I see is not genre what would be somehow wanting or willingly staying in past, as most of stuff sounds, at least in my years, that it sure as hell didn't sound like this in the 90's or early 00's. I feel that thing is rather that it sounds so much of 2020!

What is the problem of sounding like 2020? Well, I guess most of all that putting some of the masterworks to your stereos, you have no idea when they were made. Clean, rugged, nasty, crystallic, whatever is the quality, unless you know, it could be any of last 4 decades. Then fast forward to big chunk of the 2020, it sounds like it is right now, with tech we have now, with mentality we have now. And that moment is most likely getting old way sooner than the timeless classic of 85, 95, 05....

I feel there are artists who are now doing things in PE what has not been done. It is most of all having their own personality there, not necessarily showing tricks, but doing albums that could not be confused to almost that exists before.

There is a lot one could comment, but one what stikes me funny as hell, is the "hate feedback". When worst examples are that someone blamed you as fake christians and other claimed your parents are buying your gear.. eh eh.. I thought PE was domain of old men, parents buying gear complain sounded so funny. 

Lots of other things, but I guess I'll stop here. Its episode worth to listen and worth to comment too!

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 10, 2022, 09:15:17 PM
I thought PE was domain of old men.

The comments have come that way for us because we started doing PE at a much younger age then what the average age 30+ was over a decade ago. We both started in our early twenties. Hence why people have made claims that "our parents buy our stuff".

But I remember when PE/Industrial was just fools +35. I remember Sam and I being the youngest performers at both United Forces Of Industrial fests we participated in too.

i take old school PE be it from the 80' or 90' over any ''modern'' sounding PE why cause its sound simply better to me why get complex when you can go simple and be more effective less is way more striped down set up synth + vocal forever go back to amp to tape recording perfection no computer needed

i don't know if this is what you're talking about mikko, but as far as i understand classic discussion among engineers with regards to analogue vs digital is, with analogue you have to get all parameters perfect before recording, ensuring that mic position and mixer eq, compressors etc. is on point, whereas with digital recording you get pretty shitty starting result and then "fix" it from there "in the box". i've heard pretty good results from both methods to be honest, but maybe you are only talking about line-in recording method. i would argue it could work, but soundwork on all grunt i heard has been really good, so of course the old school method is not to be taken lightly.

Listened to the nightcore playback speed version (x1.5) at work this week. Really enjoyable conversation, Sam is a real standup person. In underground experimental music, you often run into people who really have their nose up their own ass in their self serious role as an ~artist~. Episode highlighted how Sam does take his craft seriously but is also very down to earth. The family stuff is always interesting to hear as well especially from an outsider perspective whose only exposure to that world is Gangland episodes and Blood In Blood Out. Commentary regarding the themes of Crawl of Time emphasize how refreshing it is to have a personal proximity and experience to the topic at hand vs. just being a distant study for a tape or whatever. I agree with this, but would like to add that another thing that makes it refreshing in regards to personal themes is that a lot of the time when people make personal experiences central to their work, I often wonder why should we care about your personal trauma, kinks, sex history or whatever. A lot of the personal themes just come off as mundane. However, this can't be said about Crawl of Time because these intense personal themes are intriguing and impactful especially when combined with the music/artwork.

Quote from: brutalist_tapes on June 11, 2022, 05:01:03 PM
i don't know if this is what you're talking about mikko, but as far as i understand classic discussion among engineers with regards to analogue vs digital is, with analogue you have to get all parameters perfect before recording, ensuring that mic position and mixer eq, compressors etc. is on point, whereas with digital recording you get pretty shitty starting result and then "fix" it from there "in the box". i've heard pretty good results from both methods to be honest, but maybe you are only talking about line-in recording method. i would argue it could work, but soundwork on all grunt i heard has been really good, so of course the old school method is not to be taken lightly.

I beg to differ. A shitty take is a shitty take and there's only so much you can do with a computer, especially when you're not a professional engineer.

No, it was not about that really.
Like I probably said several times, since early 00's, none of my work is purely analogue. I was never analogue purist, and if you listen to my noise from mid 90's, you'll hear teenager getting hard on with (then fairly new) digital guitar multi-efx unit. Haha.

what I meant, is easily audible by listening handful of old noise items, and handful of new noise items. When there was no "noise gear", and nobody really knew how other people did their stuff, and there simply was not access for stuff, there was often something utterly unique in terms of ... hmmm... Timbre? The color of the sound, the character, that has very little to do with composition, gear of sound creation, and more about process of recording.

Lets have examples, early Ramirez. Man did some of utterly magnificent harsh noise recordings with his grandmothers stereo set-up. some sort of tape-deck-turntable-tuner type of package deal, and he'd just hit rec on tape deck and you just can not replicate this sound.

The Haters works of old times. Man is using scrap metal, broken glass, sampled car crashes, etc, anything anyone can do, but pretty much nobody sounds like The Haters. Never.

You got entire genre of power electronics, with to this date, nobody sounding like Sutcliffe Jugend. Sure, there are bands with vocals, feedback and rugged keyboard tones. But that ain't the SOUND, the timbre of SJ. I have listened every band ever praised to sound like old SJ, and I can tell, nobody sounds like it. I am not saying it would be impossible to sound like it, but first of all, there is no reason really, but also I am fairly confident many have no idea what is the element that makes bands sound like that.

Now, in digital era, of course bands can sound different. There is no question about it. But the fact remains, especially among people who are clueless about gear and who are just victims of having to settle on what is commonly available, commonly known to be "recording method", that you will end up with power electronics, that may have nice synth modulations, may have unusual theme, even somewhat personal angle on the songs, but then.... In the end, we have the situation as we have in almost any music today.

New art music of symphonic orchestra will sound ... just like it does.
New metal music, that is known as "well produced", will sound basically the same, despite different music, you got the timbre and pallette that is what you get when you are recording on compiters, line-in, state of mind how music production of 2022 is.

I know some will say that you can do different things on computer. I know, and that's what is the frustrating part of it. We know it can be done, but just about 9/10 promo recordings I receive sound like what I described before.

As clear example, look for Emil Beauliea "Memories" CD. Play Shimpfluch track. My most loved modular synth patterns are there. But they key is not only the synth and it's patch, but the timbre, the color of sound of recording. I have searched if there would be something like that, and only one I have ever heard, during decades of search, is fairly recently Kartio 2x tape that comes a bit close. Using modulars, but having excellent production what escapes this feeling as if you are not listening to piece of art, but someones synth tutorial video. The finest detail what often seems impossible to explain. I set next to a guy, explaon what is totally unbearable in some recording, and in bizarre way, in genre so focused on SOUND and its microscopic qualities, one you talk to doesn't hear the thing you talk about. They hear it in ways of riffs, drum beats, melody patterns, synth oscillations etc... but not in the fine detail what is purely the SOUND itself what is most of all recording method.

This doesn't mean it has to be lo-fi or rugged. One can listen Whitehouse "New Britain" for example. I consider it high fidelity. Brilliant, fierce, and very very very hard to mimic, despite it seeminly would need wasp synth and vocals. There is this other quality, that often is understood more in noise, than in contemporary PE. I think.

Out now on WCN TV - AFTERBLAST with Will Vangorder of WORTH

We follow up after his first interview, and he fills me in on what he's been up to lately. He also tells me about the time he ate a rattlesnake in the wild and used the skin years later to package a tape, as well as his legendary day in court on national TV, to name just a few topics we get into.

Only available on WCN TV for Patreon supporters. 5€ / month gets you access to this episode and much more exclusive WCN TV content - consider supporting now!

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Nice interview. The animation perspective was real interesting as that's what I do for my full time job, though never really thought of applying those fundamentals to making sounds... squash, stretch, and so on.  You touched briefly on that being a possible way to move noise/PE forward and I think you're on to something there. Applying basics of one art form to another. might be something I'll have to think on.

Out now! Andy Bolus of EVIL MOISTURE on White Centipede Noise Podcast!

https://youtu.be/h1oltRZAd5Q
https://youtu.be/h1oltRZAd5Q
https://youtu.be/h1oltRZAd5Q

Great!
Of course there is always lots of points of further discussion, but it is absolutely great to see kind of.. ehm.. old timer, if one can use such word, who has no problem name dropping bunch of old favorites, but also new ones. I was surprised he mentioned Ride For Revenge. RFR is of course great and new album is amazing, but didn't expect it to be mentioned.
Funny thing was Andy saying something about ... hmm.. listening stuff what you can't mention on podcast? Haha. It would be good to get the top-best unacceptable listening, so we could grab some goodies.

It is quite amusing times. Just couple days ago was handed papers of Finnish prison not allowing my stuff to hands of inmates. Half of reasons was due content of releases, half of reasons was merely based on who put them out or made them. Of course it is no news to me, but it is fairly amusing to see actual prison papers that declare it presents danger in Finnish prison system.

I would certainly appreciate tips for stuff that is not allowed..

Been enjoying all the interviews so far.

I'm waiting for an interview with Mr. Freak Animal... I'm sure there are many, many interesting things this man can say in an interview. About the making of Noise/P.E., running a label, general history of Noise/P.E.
I'm waiting.

Quote from: Urban Noise on June 24, 2022, 04:17:00 PM
Been enjoying all the interviews so far.

I'm waiting for an interview with Mr. Freak Animal... I'm sure there are many, many interesting things this man can say in an interview. About the making of Noise/P.E., running a label, general history of Noise/P.E.
I'm waiting.

I second this!

Trust me, an interview with the SI bossman has crossed my mind. I still have to mull it over for obvious reasons.

This week instead of the podcast, I'm doing a video party / online meet-up for supporters of the podcast, as well as previous guests. I'll answer questions or let whoever wants to talk, talk! Should be fun, and potentially very funny. Had quite a few people say they plan on popping in so far!

It's going down this Monday June 27 at 18:00 CET. The link to the chat is already up on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: Urban Noise on June 24, 2022, 04:17:00 PM
Been enjoying all the interviews so far.

I'm waiting for an interview with Mr. Freak Animal... I'm sure there are many, many interesting things this man can say in an interview. About the making of Noise/P.E., running a label, general history of Noise/P.E.
I'm waiting.

Absolutely needs to happen

I am already so often hijacking this topic, so contribution to WCN might be large enough, like this hah. (plus, like Oskar hints, podcast what needs to reply on not deleted from service and avoid some other problems, might benefit from avoiding obvious trouble magnets.)

I am pretty sure Oskar has plenty of candidates lined up, but if suggestions are: Violent Shogun. Briefly included Vincent Dallas and Moozzhead both in full length episodes. Sewer Election. Ochu. Letters 22. Torba. Perhaps label special, like Total Black - how it is with running physical store in germany these days? Perhaps in near future new postage situation brings new challenges to noise biz that may be worth to talk?

Altar Of Flies would be interesting guest too for the podcast(!)

Quote from: V.T.R on June 29, 2022, 12:49:40 PM
Altar Of Flies would be interesting guest too for the podcast(!)

Yeah, tell me about it.

I'd also like to hear more from Matthias Andersson regarding Arv & Miljö,, Heinz Hopf, Release The Bat's and whatever label or music-selling activities he has nowadays, etc.

Quote from: WCN on June 20, 2022, 07:28:46 PM
Out now! Andy Bolus of EVIL MOISTURE on White Centipede Noise Podcast

Rolling Gauloises?  Lungs of steel.

OUT NOW - Remi of VIOLENT SHOGUN on White Centipede Noise Podcast!

https://youtu.be/zgkJE0BlASs
https://youtu.be/zgkJE0BlASs
https://youtu.be/zgkJE0BlASs

Great episode once again! Thank you.

+1 vote for the Matthias Andersson interview! Would be a killer.

Quote from: AKTI Records on July 04, 2022, 08:41:15 PM
Great episode once again! Thank you.

+1 vote for the Matthias Andersson interview! Would be a killer.

Gustafsson too!

Quote from: WCN on July 04, 2022, 07:11:09 PM
OUT NOW - Remi of VIOLENT SHOGUN on White Centipede Noise Podcast!

https://youtu.be/zgkJE0BlASs
https://youtu.be/zgkJE0BlASs
https://youtu.be/zgkJE0BlASs

Good!

Listened WCN podcast with Violent Shogun and thought I should grab his early Cryptofascisme tape on todays playlist... but well, the tape collection is such a mess, so after browsing for while, decided to take something instead.
Cryptofascisme would have been neat to deal in more detail. I doubt those who don't know, that kind of stuff it would be that deals with... how was it said.. taboos of french politics? Things that you are not supposed to discuss. This would mean things like acknowledging role of French in certain african political incidents etc. A bit more detailed look on such content would be nice. It is sometimes slightly odd, that you could take something like industrial project Militia. They'd refer in early works heavily into german, there would be ecoanarchist, there would be belgian nationalist tones against imperialism, there would be sort of russian anarchism, critique of destructive capitalism, often some historical standpoint... but if from outside one would look, what would be kind of THE industrial atrocity of Belgium, historical events that were intentionally aimed to be erased and forgotten? I assume there is nothing about it. Of course artists decide what they do, and it could be in some way "cliche" to pick up the sort of most obvious thing. One would still assume that if there would be multi-dimensional belgian industrial topic, there would be so much of potential for metaphors for current day society as well. You can, and will forget millions and millions of savages butchered in kongo, if world needs your product, and you hunger the profit.  In that way, Cryptofascisme would be interesting, that it would observe things like Mille Collines radio, french role in Rwanda genocide, which may be at this point "old news" to many, while german history will always be controversy. For industrial-noise heads, I would always assume it is the hidden, the forgotten, the not-to-be-talked-about, darker side of historical events that would be more interesting than the obvious?

Anyways, also, Remi was good talking about half of his listening being his own stuff. "Not for ego reasons, but because it is ideal for my taste". Something like that. It is good level of noise creation!

He was talking on podcast about not being so much fan of music business, but liking the noise in form of personal contacts, trading stuff with people etc. Even if I have actually lived from selling UG stuff all my life, which is fairly unbelievable thing actually, to have no education nor job at this age, I do agree on absolute importance of things being... not business. It also effects your "collections" quite drastically, are you buying or are you in touch with people. Doing trades with guys before they are "recognized", labels who make editions less than 20 because nobody seems to care.  Eventually, decades later, it might lead to be very inspiring listening session with stuff that you did not just purchase, but you were sort of involved with. Good stuff that you had to be there, had to recognize the value and vitality before it was kind of "promoted to you". This type of personal relationship with the artist and art is quite different from what I often criticized about purely internet culture, where in theory there could be, but where often there is not some sort of personal commitment and back-and-forth communication.   

I think Oskar says it pretty well in saying "maintaining and fostering underground noise culture, in more modern way, but outside the social media superficial symbolic communication". Which is pretty much what I mean with difference of culture, and internet culture. Of course internet can, is and will be used, but there is big difference of how and why.

Did Remi say in the interview there is a collaboration project with H.O.H ? Or i misheard ? If there is, did he mentioned name too ?

He did. They collaborate under the name Mold.

Quote from: Theodore on July 06, 2022, 10:17:08 PM
Did Remi say in the interview there is a collaboration project with H.O.H ? Or i misheard ? If there is, did he mentioned name too ?

What Erik just said above. Something is at the plant at the moment.

Out now on WCN TV - AFTERBLAST with Tommy Carlsson of TRERIKSRÖSET!

Tommy joins me for a lengthy follow up conversation to our first podcast interview. We dig into what he's been up to lately, "underground ethics", dubbing tapes, and much more.

Available on Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Great bonus episode! Non-patreons are definitely missing out some excellent talk.

As for offspring and noise, my daughter is picky. She enjoys Umpio and The New Boyfriends, at least a few minutes. After that her attention returns to destruction of our home. She's been fascinated by tape decks and tapes from the moment she could reach them though. She turns on the power and plays, rewinds, messes with dolby and the eq etc. We'll see how long this interest lasts, but so far my decks are far more interesting to her than any screens and phones in the house.

Thanks everyone. Tommy has generously donated 2 copies of the TRERIKSRÖSET tape on Hatband (2nd edition) to the WCN Patreon. This Friday July 15 at 18:00 CET, patrons at the level "Maniac's Circle" or above will see a post on Patreon for the giveaway. The first 2 people who comment "TRR" on the post will automatically win a copy of the tape. Also launching a Discord soon!

Out now - new episode of WCN Podcast with Scott Houston of RESPIRATOR

https://youtu.be/ekpUk6wkzu0
https://youtu.be/ekpUk6wkzu0
https://youtu.be/ekpUk6wkzu0

Out now: NOISE ON THE RUN - Questions: "Why Does Noise HAVE To Evolve?" and more

I'm on the run this week, so took the opportunity to do a solo episode answering some of the very interesting questions submitted from viewers/listeners, starting with "my top 5 noise releases of 2022. "

Preview:
https://youtu.be/J3eIClbl418

Full episode on WCN TV through Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

GRUNT "installation...." tape (and LP) mentioned in playlist has been indeed for years bending on "to be released on CD". Just got to find the files from some old hard drive. Should be saved, but during the years, computers changed and files are scattered in various drives...

OUT NOW - Epic interview with Eddie "EJ" Giles of FINAL SOLUTION

https://youtu.be/uciea47k7Us
https://youtu.be/uciea47k7Us
https://youtu.be/uciea47k7Us

Very excited to listen to this to finish my day. Thanks Oskar

Killer! There goes my evening

I listened entire episode at once. First c. 2 hours on headphone while walking outside, thinking of, it is not over...? And then hour more at home. It is really nice, and Oskar doesn't have to ask that many questions when Ed is so fast paced New Yorker.

It is funny, but also interesting question about younger Ed's delusion that Final Solution could and should become big. I think this may seem now really absurd idea, but it may be hard to present that era where this kind of delusion could have emerged. I recall it was in SPK interview, where they told about moving in London, as TG seemed so huge. Stories in all music magazines, gigs, scandals, albums coming out etc. Arriving into London and realizing how small industrial music actually was.

There was time when it seemed that EVERYBODY knew E.Neubauten, Laibach and so on. New album came out, and it was covered in music press just like any album. Difference to other music wasn't that big. I can easily understand why for example hip hop and rap went big, and industrial music didn't, but in theory, like Ed in his delusions thought, if music industry including media would have pushed this music like it did rap, it could have been interesting. One can think for example how big was and is Joy Division. And how little step would be to old school industrial? In theory, getting big, why not. In reality, one probably has to lean towards Final Solution's Chris and admit come on man, not going to happen! haha..

Very good & special interview. Didn't expect him to go so deep and personal, but I'm happy that he did. For a guy that doesn't like to talk about his own life, he sure has a lot to say!

Very good episode, up close and personal and also very informative. I find the whole "rockist" idea kind of funny. Wanting to be a "real band" like AC/DC, ha! It really shows a big difference between the oldtimers and most present noise musicians. What I like about that idea, though, is how they would actually rehearse and be able to play things live. That ability is mostly lost now, it seems, and is simply replaced by laptops which removes the tactile element of noise completely. He made me check out Commuter too. A solid tip! 

Out Now - Joe Roemer of MACRONYMPHA on White Centipede Noise Podcast!

https://youtu.be/cR8F42yH_UY
https://youtu.be/cR8F42yH_UY
https://youtu.be/cR8F42yH_UY

Really funny episode! My favorite moment is when Roemer starts to blast old-lady sex noise from amplifier and Oskar looks amused, but as it keeps continuing, there is certain expression of awkwardness being detected, haha...  And that might be also something to consider when doing content for Youtube. Not long ago friend of my got video removed very very quickly, even if there was no explicit footage, just audio that can be detected as XXX rated by fairly clumsy automatic sound detectors.

As far as I know, mr. Morris of Trash Ritual label, it wasn't that many years ago when he was still lurking at discogs, and buying few things. I suppose guy with family and serious job, it is tough to run label or make some sort of MSNP 10xCD box set happen, but I am amazed how popular it is for labels to just disappear and leave artists hanging in uncertainty. I could drop several names of guys who hoarded deals, masters, and never made them, but never cancelled nor returned master tapes. The little honour there should be, would be just admit artists I can't do this, and should I return tapes or send them to someone else. That should be easy as fuck in this case, when Roemer has always the same address and returning something would be easy.

Back when this MSNP box was still theoretically happening, Industrial Recollections took steps back on few plans of MSNP reissues since Trash Ritual insisted they might end up in the box. Now the only Macro CD I'd like to reissue is the FA's cd, re-mastered from original tapes as the old CD was quiet and lame transfer, by yours truly, in times when computer technology was still pretty new and far less advanced..

Out now! Ted Byrnes on White Centipede Noise Podcast!

https://youtu.be/d_5IoY-Z0dQ
https://youtu.be/d_5IoY-Z0dQ
https://youtu.be/d_5IoY-Z0dQ

I am not very well familiar with Ted Byrnes. The usual thing, that I tend to remember band names, not the people. I suppose it is mentioned a bit later that he is also in Wood & Metal, and then its "aah, that project!".

This is something that I would suggest to any podcast as a little adjustment for the structure. Instead of starting with long slow beginning of "how did you get into noise", it might be better to start instantly with who are you, how do we know you (what you've been doing lately, new shit happening, things that usually are somewhere in the end when podcast is just wrapping up episode), whats the interesting stuff happening right now. 
I would say, this would make listener who has interest, but not all the knowledge, captured from the beginning. Otherwise, I would suspect, there is relevant question why would we be listening stories of someone highschool band etc?  It is luring idea to think people would know artists, but if having a bit of realism, it could be benefit to mention to people that is being interviewed that if possible, talk as if nobody knows anything. Especially about other artists and people. This is helpful for listener. Lets say you get to hear "Matt's new stuff always slays!". And I'm wondering... Matt? Who? Shoemaker?  Sam? Sam who? McKinley? Stoxen? etc. haha..    Couple advices/plans how to talk in interview is very much accepted to make it relatable for listener.

This notion of not needing to know, is dealt in the Ted Byrnes interview. Oskar explains that it could be baggage if everybody would need to be first going through entire history of noise, to be able to start to make some. One could make great noise without any knowledge how and who were making it decades ago. In a way, I fully agree. It is not mandatory approach to noise that it would be study and research. There are plenty of other ways and reasons to approach.

But there is also another angle to it. One time, I was talking with younger artist who was very enthusiastic about nudity and splattering red paint. It was treated like new idea. Something that just came out into field of performance art. I didn't want to mention that... well... in history of roughly this type of art... the nudity and the red paint, the blood and the fake blood kind of thing.. It may not be new. Haha.

It is same situation that when in interview is being talked that everybody used scrap metal, but there is so many possibilities. Discussion how you could use glass. Wood. Stones. etc. and I am thinking... hmmm... I mean, sure, metal junk is popular because of obvious qualities. Its trusted sound, resonance, durability, and so on. This is especially for live sets. Anyone who has seen glass-noise live sets, knows why sheet of metal is more functional, hah.
But talking of these other things as if they would be obscure rarity in noise, makes me wonder what kind of noise is being listened? It is not mandatory to get educated on all things happening or happened in realms of noise, but it is helpful in a way that instead of wondering how come nobody is using glass for making noise, you could make top-5 noise/y releases using glass? Or most wild live performances using glass? Or dive into best stone recordings. Probably have to just grab Stein: Interpretationen Eines Geologischen Materials Und Seiner Symbolik -comp on mr. Ochu's label to get started. As soon as you've gone that, there is options to proceed even for purely acoustic stone noise live shows and such... Are these all NOISE with capital letters? Maybe not the baseball cap wearing HN shirt shakebox harsh noise, but in realms of same wider scene nevertheless.

Anyways, episode is good and gets better all the time by the end. Percussive qualities of noise, that is something what interesting topic. Also Byrner saying that he dislikes the sounds that lasts more than a note. Not doing any long sounds with his work. That is quite unusual in era where endless drones, echoes and stretching seems vastly more popular. It would be quite interesting topic to discuss whether such approach is kind of more noisy? When it is abrupt, fractured, not really beats and grooves, but percussive elements lacking what is traditionally musical. We are not lacking substance to observe. You could grab bunch of late 80's Merzbow cult album, that are noise/noisy, but on level of ideas, they are percussion music. Storage for example. Ecobondage. There was other stuff where his main idea was study object percussion. Or lets say Finns, have often possibility to see Umpio starting harsh noise sets with experimental percussion  (example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_DAwOwBo_8  just short clip from beginning).

Very much is appreciated the nod toward MANIA. Those who wonder why he is one of the masters in metal junk, I would say there is plenty to hear, but ALL AFTERMATH tape, that was the last of Mania and best. It makes one wonder what could have become of Mania if still after decades of using junk metal, really since the late 80's, he could come up with his best metal junk recordings? We talked back then that all FA Mania tapes should be collected into CD, as they well deserve it, but I just haven't got it done.  All of them are great, but All Aftermath would most certainly deserve to be remembered how artist can make their best stuff last and good reminder how talking about recent things and recommending recent releases can be good. Not just hunt for ancient noise..


But now that there was some talk about noise and other sound sources, any label who likes harsh noise and Jeph Jerman etc, could want to ask him or Ben Brucato about their collaboration project called ENTITIES. This was loud harsh noise, made out of wood. As far as I know, album never came out. There was talk that it could be on Freak Animal, but never got done for various reasons. It would be kind of waste to that project never get heard by anyone...  There was Brucato playing metal & wood on Jeph Jerman – The Bray Harp (on WCN), but this Entities project is something else.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 23, 2022, 10:07:36 AM
But now that there was some talk about noise and other sound sources, any label who likes harsh noise and Jeph Jerman etc, could want to ask him or Ben Brucato about their collaboration project called ENTITIES. This was loud harsh noise, made out of wood. As far as I know, album never came out. There was talk that it could be on Freak Animal, but never got done for various reasons. It would be kind of waste to that project never get heard by anyone...  There was Brucato playing metal & wood on Jeph Jerman – The Bray Harp (on WCN), but this Entities project is something else.

Now that several old goodies and archival treasures are being reissued/released it would be great to hear Entities as well! Jeph Jerman has been releasing quality stuff on many labels in the recent years so I would imagine I am not the only one who would be interested in this. So much great stuff out there all the time!

Forgot to post here, but no standard podcast episode this week. We had the monthly video party instead which was great fun! I'll try to do it on a weekend next month, as some people have mentioned that's more fitting to their schedules.

Later this week, WCN TV is dropping its first batch of "Premium" content:


-Documentary of this past weekend's gig in Stockholm featuring ALFARMANIA, TRERIKSRÖSET, OCHU, HINGST and FEBERDRÖM organized by Johan of Ominous Recordings, featuring excerpts of the live performances, on-site interviews, and behind the scenes footage. Shot in 4K by Basia Napora.

-In-person interview with Love Rosenström of OCHU back stage before the show.

-In-person interview with Mats Alm of YOUNG HUSTLERS at an undisclosed location.

-Each performing artist's extended set.


This content will only be available to Maniac's Circle supporters of WCN Podcast.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Out now!

ALFARMANIA, TRERIKSRÖSET, OCHU, HINGST, FEBERDRÖM, YOUNG HUSTLERS - STHLM 26.8.22 (Patreon only)

Trailer: https://youtu.be/uirjlYa_Qjo

OUT NOW!

Dean Fazzino of ROBERT FUCHS!

https://youtu.be/aFELTxpGOr0
https://youtu.be/aFELTxpGOr0
https://youtu.be/aFELTxpGOr0

There are many good topics on the episode, but perhaps the slightly muddy sound and slowness of dialogue doesn't make topic fully blossom.
I suppose Oskar will have easy task to return back to many of the themes. I think the discussion about what is "label" is curious. I can easily admit being somehow stubbornly thinking label should have some specific qualities. If being publisher, but then... doesn't send out stuff and doesn't reply people trying to contact.. is that a "label"? If its logo on tape that barely exists? Answer is, of course, that yes it is a label. Just not the style of label I like the most.
At the same time, knowing it would be foolish to insist, that labels work in a ways, like record labels sometimes do. One can't expect there should be convenient store where place orders or wide distribution and such..   but still, for me the question what really is a "label" in context of noise is quite interesting one. I'm hoping one day there would be some sort of collective multi personnel episode where label bosses of different types would talk about how they run their thing and what kind of ideals they have, for themselves or for noise labels in general.

Out now!

Greg of Dada Drumming / A FAIL ASSOCIATION!

https://youtu.be/J-LIQ16j0ME
https://youtu.be/J-LIQ16j0ME
https://youtu.be/J-LIQ16j0ME

Excellent episode. Best of the recent ones, or should I say absolutely fantastic!
I like the enthusiasm as well as very firm ideas what it takes to run the label, and even aim higher with it.

There is this question should/could noise label pay artists and I suppose question is more important now than ever. When shipping things became so expensive, discogs turned pretty much garbage as far as I know, it seems unlikely that guys who may not be heavily involved in active scene, would somehow benefit from getting box of reissue 50 CD's? I see that there would be couple ways to look at benefit of paying artists. If it is a CD (or any format) that actually sells, then you can basically pay for example wholesale price of the item to artist in cash. In a way, just sell his copies behalf him. Perhaps pay little more now that you don't have to pay huge shipping of big box of stuff. If release ain't going to be realistically hot seller situation might be that you are passionate about it. So might just pay, regardless if it takes ages to recoup the costs. If you are not feeling passionate about it, then we got question why you're putting it out?

I fully realize not everybody simply have the budget to do such thing, extra few hundred may be real tight. Still wanting to do things. That's what underground is for. You'll be in contact with artists and with people you appreciate, and trying to advance and cultivate this art in ways that are possible.

Due the increasing costs, just recently one Finnish label decided to cancel agreed releases. As he had no webshop, relying on wholesale deals, and news of some distributors scaling down operations just resulted obvious decision. Of course you could do it just for fun. But is it even fair for artist? Put of release, then stash it to your storage. Not enough distributors who'll buy it, no possibility to do trades. Even personal trades getting too expensive. So honest decision to say artist it would be bad situation. Better to get label who can get your stuff out there.

I think many labels could spend few moments in thinking, that besides it may be fun time for you, what it is that you're doing. Dada Drumming has very focused idea what label is meant to do. He even appears to spend enough $$ that basically demands him to take it seriously. Sometimes that element is exactly what is needed. Like all the talk about respecting live artists and giving them money or buying food/drinks. It may be good for artists, but it may be good for gig itself. As soon as organizer invested money on it, what he may want back, he needs to do a bit of promotion. Even remind his friends we have this thing going. It benefits everybody that there suddenly is crowd of people, and not just 5 guys who noticed your "facebook event" or something. This entire "you get the door money" deal is lame, if it is there simply to create apathy. 

Label who just spend $$$ amount of money, may have motivation to recoup some of it. Actively try to get release into distribution around the world and so on. I think that is the real purpose of label these days, and separates good ones from the average. Is label committed to get stuff out there, and reach some new guys, new listeners. If he is just going to upload it on bandcamp with handful of followers and dub 20 tapes, where you really need label for? That's why it was absolutely inspiring to hear this Dada Drumming / A Fail Association interview when you got not only fairly long time noise head there, but also guy who clearly thought about what it really is to run label, or put on shows, etc.. 

   Hi! In my opinion tha latest one is the best one of this "season". This episode shows totally new angle to whole these thing called scene. I so can feel this ladys experiences with records she cannot chose. Nowadays I can figure what my passion my could sound like. Now my days goes with massive ear damage +everything else... im happy when my ears can take much more than an album of Noise, every second I have some noise,..
But yeah,really nice way yo come close to sounds.

Quote from: piisti on September 19, 2022, 11:38:59 PM
   Hi! In my opinion tha latest one is the best one of this "season".

Thank you! I'm late to the punch, but...

OUT NOW! Episode 34 of White Centipede Noise Podcast with Kate DeVoe of NOISE WIDOW ZINE!!!

https://youtu.be/Yn7CDPnep7Q
https://youtu.be/Yn7CDPnep7Q
https://youtu.be/Yn7CDPnep7Q

Good one! Actually, it was several years matter of joke among group of friends, how it would be different angle if there would be artists wife talking in the interview, hah...  Sarcastic remarks of.. all sorts of things.

I tried to order zines while ago from WCN store but at that moment they were sold out instantly. I know they are back now, but hoping now some copies would come to Finn distros eventually!

Discussion about not knowing too much what is happening or all the little details of genre, it is kind of old school. I remember even just handful of year ago, which is: Before discogs was popularized, that there used to be things like on noise forum people would collect information what was discography of some particular power electronics artists. You simply didn't have that info pretty much anywhere, and very few, if anyone, had the complete collection. When people started to do 'zines, I would guess fanzine is the better word. They most likely had merely couple years behind them and then doing what they can. I would suspect nobody would expect zine to be dictionary or history book, but personal reaction for mentioned persons situation. If you praise Anicca in review, without knowing what Noisembryo is, that's fine. I know I also often advocate knowing what some writes or says, but in terms of writing of noise, instead of history and context - just the gut feeling is probably more crucial. It would be better to know why YOU like it, not why it is generally appreciated.

The talk about need of zines being different.

When SI #1 came in 2009, we lived in quite different times. There was not really noise zines anymore. All the oldies, gone. New one, occasional one issue may have come here and there. At that moment, there was barely need to think that noise zine would have to be different. There was just need to be something. Pretty much anything. Now we have kind of luxurious situation, where people can be even critical to zines like "too many reviews". "Not again these type of bands". "I don't like the graphics". hah... Most of the time in noise history its been like "please, something!" and pretty much anything will do. When RRReport came out, level was that it was enough for Ron to send 3 questions. Who are you? What you do? How can people contact you?  And that was success. Lots of different kinds of noise zines, or zines that had some noise in them.

It would be really nice, to see how noise zines developed. What types of noise zines there has been, in what ways the zines are similar or different. And it seems that in such moment, suddenly something like Special Interests comes along, haha...  Sometimes unpleasant situation of having done research, knowing and wanting to share type of info and thinking that would be interesting. While people may not be interested in the obsolete nuggets of old info, but something that is now alive, happening, and also fun to get involved in. To find balance of both worlds, was one of goals of SI zine.

Waiting to get my hands on Noise Widow zines, as the interview was really fun.

This was one of my favorite episodes yet! Kate has always had some of the best takes in every issue of Noise Widow, I'm anxiously awaiting the upcoming edition about Summer Scum VII. Her report on the fest is bound to be hilarious and informative haha.

Great to hear people really like the episode with Kate. Obviously, I can highly recommend reading Noise Widow Zine. She was pretty diplomatic in this conversation, we've already talked about doing an AFTERBLAST soon where she can really let loose and be an asshole.

Also pardon the crosspost, but I'm offering an exclusive WCN T-shirt as a gift for Maniac's Circle Patreon supporters, and bomber jacket for HEAVY SPONSORS.
Details at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
(https://c10.patreonusercontent.com/4/patreon-media/p/post/72255708/54a6f723087a4d6aa496f71965fb156b/eyJ3Ijo2MjB9/1.jpg?token-time=1665014400&token-hash=FIbg2vejX_txTJGR5vI2SMlEnNyPFY_pwuIlQwVXPUA%3D)

Out now - Episode 35 with Manuel Pereira of Narcolepsia!!!

https://youtu.be/vvSA_nfeuDY
https://youtu.be/vvSA_nfeuDY
https://youtu.be/vvSA_nfeuDY

Good one again. I guess longest thinking moments could be cut away to get faster pace... but in other hand, not in such a hurry, haha.. 

Excuse for long message cluttering WCN topic, but there is interesting thing what is mentioned, but no real conclusion made. Those who have not yet watched the episode, there is question about why CD would be 10-15 euro, while tape is more expensive to make, but can't be usually sold for high price. Prices used to be 5-7e. Now they are 7-9e. Some labels, more.

I think question of the prices of tapes vs prices of CD or records, is something where most tend to forget that price of format in general, is not only the manufacturing cost. In most music styles, there are A LOT of other costs involved in making album, where the actually price of pressing the CD, especially the disc itself, is the smallest. One can think the usual music band, who'll have studio, mastering, someone to make the cover art, someone to design. Of course, in underground music it can be home studio, friend mastering, self made design and all that, but many times even in something like rough metal music, cover artists can ask hundreds for front cover painting. Mastering or studio can cost several hundreds, even thousands. CD is format that enables that to take place. Perhaps necessity to buy advertising place. Even just pay add into Noise Receptor, Noisextra and WCN podcast for the CD album in question - so you make people aware there are these 300 copies you try to get rid off. What it's going to cost? Quite significant addition to mere manufacturing cost, just for sake of reaching enough people. If you send out bunch of freebies in hopes of review, or even sending out big box of royalties to overseas can add significant extra cost to CD, what isn't often calculated when you compare it with some self financed C-20...?

For small edition tape, you barely need any of that. Editions are often sold out. Manufacturing per unit, may be higher, but risk of ending up half of pressing unsold, is very small. Time or money you need to spend on promotion and arranging deals is small. And if that would be to happen that you really can't sell all, losses are small and often even tapes are possible to recycle. Yes, I agree that tape format is becoming expensive to the point that old type fun with tapes is soon gone. Still, I am sometimes amazed when people would talk about "getting your money back". As that tends to often mean exactly that. Literally getting your money back. It seems more like need of evaluation what is money and what it is one really needs? There are some people, very few, who does it for legit work. They may need money back for sake of sustaining their operations. Pretty much everybody else seems to have strange new school attitude. Everything is commodity, and everything is for profit and money is what is key element in all. To me it seems exactly zeitgeist of the culture now, another topic they deal in WCN podcast. It could be good topic to dive further. To talk in what ways noise is alternative culture, if it gets trapped into operation that is 100% same as mainstream culture, just less successful?

Anyways, getting your money back, is often irrelevant. Money as means of exchange can be skipped. You get back experience, you get back spark to cultivate your creative urges. You get most often life time long friendships that inspire you into new things. Even putting together special tape release.. I would think most do it, just because it is somehow rewarding. To get the task done, as unpleasant and dull as it may have been, simply getting it done is getting something back. Just this summer I was talking to one kid, who father I know, who was insisting to get paid for chopping firewood. I asked him where comes this obsession of money? Don't you realize you get paid, in building muscles, growing motoric skills, stamina, experience all together, being respected for being useful. Money should be the most irrelevant of your needs. Opportunity to man up and not ask for hand outs.

Anyways, in CD price, besides it traditionally enable to cover costs involved in making the album (besides pressing of disc), price is most of all enabler of wider distribution. If you got a tape, priced on 8 euro. Wholesale might be 5 even 6. Plus post. Distributors will have to sell item so high, people are no longer buying. For guy like me, who is in unpleasant situation of having to pay taxes, getting tape for 6e+shipping.. probably around 7-8e depending where it comes from. Putting price tag of 12 euros would seem harsh, but VAT (value added tax) takes 24% and leaves 1,5e profit. That is profit, unless you count out any packaging material of money lost in offering flat-rate shipping that is below the actual shipping cost. If most of items you'd basically sell at loss, that may be fine, but in long term not be sustainable system to sustain operations. All record stores and mailorders probably understand this. Fact that you can wholesale item to shop or distro for price, that they have still chance to have small cut for themselves, but price remains close to what original label is asking. That is usually mandatory. Some sort of psychological reason, that if labels sells cd for 5usd, most customers don't want to pay 12 euro for it. Just because feeling someone is ripping them off. When label sets price to 12usd, wholesales at 5usd and dealer sells for 12euro, everybody is happy. While some people think cheap price makes people buy stuff, I must say most often it might be that slightly higher price and suitable format enables wider distribution.

I may have mentioned before, but as single example, one could wonder how many copies of something like Human Larvae tapes sold to Japan? Being often editions of 100, one could suspect not that many. Then latest CD on Freak Animal, I guess close to 50 copies when there. Tape could never do it. CD priced on bargain level could not do either. Too expensive collectibles that have to be ordered at your own store couldn't either. What I am interested in, is not thinking how small scene must be, because there is not so much visible reactions. I would rather think how could all these thousands and thousands of people made aware of particular release or make it reachable for some of them. Of course not that huge amount of money was made with selling 50 CD's to Japan, but if one day, this artist goes to do gig in Tokyo and says wow, people knew my work and there was audience - that would be the real payment. Knowing that label was useful for artist, doing something what labels (in my opinion) should be doing.

absolutely, Mikko.

in some of these discussed topics, we were "thinking out loud", so, mostly raising questions to ourselves, doubts we share. it´s nice to have such an insightful reply from someone with much more experience in this particular topic.

I was of course not thinking of a context that requires proper studio and related costs. even costs with artwork, mastering etc are usually not that high, or can be easily negotiated, within the scope of my operation, but things aren´t always like that, of course.

also, I was thinking mostly of retail prices directly from the label. shops that carry some items and are a legit business have no other option than to raise prices in order to cover some legal costs etc and that is absolutely fine. I usually have some items in Matéria Prima, here in Portugal, and that is the case. it´s nice to have them in a brick and mortar shop and enable people a bit outside of the circuit to gain access to some of this stuff.

there was a funny episode there : we used a photo from a local older cult artist / photographer (Carlos Carreiro) in the cover of Morte Certa 5" in Poço Discos. (included his name there, of course, doing it in a DIY / tribute mentality, but never reached out to him. we didn´t even know how to do it). one day, his daughter went to the shop and found the record. she was really surprised with it, bought a few, got in touch with us via shop owner, and we even met personally and he was super cool about it and quite fascinated with how unlikely this whole situation was.

that is just a simple example to reinforce that idea : it is indeed what surrounds the whole transaction that makes for it. we all get so much more from this (or should, at least), than simply making a profit, or even covering costs.

In my opinion, the actual investment is being able to help other artists with their releases. There are always hidden overhead costs that become pretty high when you don't only work with only friends. Even when you have a premises rent that is relatively expensive, this makes the work considerably more difficult. Of course, you experience this when you start to work more 'professional'. But I assume it takes a couple of years to find a solid foundation. All the profit we make in the future will go to other artists' releases, which is the actual "investment". To only think about money in this scene, it's better to go back to regular work and get some actual capital.

I also think that within underground, most people are more than ready to give advice to place where to print, press, manufacture. Or, how to do it yourself. Where get supplies you need, and so on. There is pretty much no "trade secrets" so to say. Many times the "savings" tend to mean not calculating your own time and effort, though... Many times no matter how many advices and helpful links there would be, running "successful label" may be all about is someone sending out orders they get soon, within 1-2 days or taking 6 months to walk into post office.

It is not acceptable to have to wait 6 months. Living next door to a post office is a great blessing, and it has helped a lot to get the business up and running. As a business policy, I take all shipments within 1 to 3 days. Unless it's like they're being made in production, apart from this autumn, two releases are made solely to help other artists I see deserve to get profit and have their releases spread across the world. I want to make the best of the releases, so 2 different artists are hired for this purpose. Worth to mention: for pretty high amounts of € for the artwork for the upcoming release. I could do everything by myself for free, but sometimes artistic vision is more important than materialistic needs.
I will also try to help one of the artists with a European tour. Too many people are making "releases" that never get out for real; only a few copies get out to a public audience.
    By 2023, we have a plan to make everything even more professionalized. Have plans to create a regular cassette release at more humane prices. Something the scene is missing at the moment is: what has happened with all the compilations tapes? Sometimes it is hard to find new and promising artists because you don't know anything about the project, so the compilation tapes hint if the artists are good or not. I am not so fond of listening to Bandcamp and such because it kills the sound experience of the music. I have deleted all Bandcamps accounts I had 5 years ago, besides the one my friend has the password for, and he is pretty tricky to reach nowadays.

However, it is primarily the time aspect that is problematic at the moment from my subjective point of view. Have a dying family member and other mundane work that takes up all my waking time. So dubbing tapes in real time has not been an alternative this autumn. However, I have started investing in 3-head tape decks to release cassettes from different eras regularly in the future. The best of worlds would be to have 40 cassette decks connected in series, which is something I have in mind for the future. Who knows how things will go in the coming years? I also bought and tried out several cassette duplicators/cassette decks with some technical issues that I need to fix/repair when I have time. Newly manufactured cassette decks are not an option for our business, though. Sometimes it's like winning a lottery to get a decent tape deck. Let the treasure hunt begin.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on September 27, 2022, 09:53:46 AM
Good one again. I guess longest thinking moments could be cut away to get faster pace... but in other hand, not in such a hurry, haha.. 

Excuse for long message cluttering WCN topic, but there is interesting thing what is mentioned, but no real conclusion made. Those who have not yet watched the episode, there is question about why CD would be 10-15 euro, while tape is more expensive to make, but can't be usually sold for high price. Prices used to be 5-7e. Now they are 7-9e. Some labels, more.

I think question of the prices of tapes vs prices of CD or records, is something where most tend to forget that price of format in general, is not only the manufacturing cost. In most music styles, there are A LOT of other costs involved in making album, where the actually price of pressing the CD, especially the disc itself, is the smallest. (...) If you send out bunch of freebies in hopes of review, or even sending out big box of royalties to overseas can add significant extra cost to CD, what isn't often calculated when you compare it with some self financed C-20...?

Absolutely. Actually - for my (very limited) experience of printing medias - making tapes in factory was before Covid definitely not more expensive than a CD (and smaller run were available for a sensibly less expensive price, while with professional glass CD was not possible), while the increase of cassettes retail price started actually way before covid.

I actually always wondered of the contrary - how is possible that some very limited home dubbed noise c-20 / c-40 sometimes reach the price of 9-12 EUR? I always put a lot of value in the overall professional manufacturing process for such short runs, still I find sometimes the price quite unappropriate.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on September 27, 2022, 09:53:46 AMStill, I am sometimes amazed when people would talk about "getting your money back". As that tends to often mean exactly that. Literally getting your money back. It seems more like need of evaluation what is money and what it is one really needs? There are some people, very few, who does it for legit work. They may need money back for sake of sustaining their operations. Pretty much everybody else seems to have strange new school attitude. Everything is commodity, and everything is for profit and money is what is key element in all. To me it seems exactly zeitgeist of the culture now, another topic they deal in WCN podcast. It could be good topic to dive further. To talk in what ways noise is alternative culture, if it gets trapped into operation that is 100% same as mainstream culture, just less successful?

Anyways, getting your money back, is often irrelevant. Money as means of exchange can be skipped. You get back experience, you get back spark to cultivate your creative urges. You get most often life time long friendships that inspire you into new things. Even putting together special tape release.. I would think most do it, just because it is somehow rewarding. To get the task done, as unpleasant and dull as it may have been, simply getting it done is getting something back. Just this summer I was talking to one kid, who father I know, who was insisting to get paid for chopping firewood. I asked him where comes this obsession of money? Don't you realize you get paid, in building muscles, growing motoric skills, stamina, experience all together, being respected for being useful. Money should be the most irrelevant of your needs. Opportunity to man up and not ask for hand outs.

This - and not only applied to the noise scene, however I would do a substantial distinction betwenn "having the money back" in sense of "be able to guarantee the financial survival in order to continue with said operations" (which doesn´t necessarily mean doing it for work, rather wanting to achieve better goals and, in order to being able to do that, cover the financial expenses - more or less like a cultural organisation/association or a collective does), and all the other ones.

More generally, I think there´s a relatively big plethora (the new school attitude you mentioned) of people involved or interested in underground musical activities (making musical releases, organizing shows, etc..) who don´t  actually really have the strive toward the "real goal" of underground art, which in my opinion is, in the music as well as in any other artistic environment, roughly resumable in: 1) urge to express something and 2) urge to channel it into some form of shape in order to 3) create a sort of "pack" with an experience of yours as "content". I can barely imagine that, if one "does it for the higher sake of doing it", one would be so obsessed in getting the "profit" back. Of course I take money for my artistic efforts too if I have been offered some, that´s not the point, rather the spirit one does the things with.

Also one thing that makes significant difference in price, is if you put out your own stuff vs. if you make someone else's stuff, especially compilations. Back in the day, shipping didn't necessarily need to be even issue. You'd just sent out stuff. Now, if you'd make international compilation, and mail out copies to 10 artists, I would guess shipping of free copies might cost more than pressing the release? Many times one has no idea what all goes into costs of a release.

Even in case of tape. Someone may use cheapest bulk tape, highspeed dubbed. One buys best quality tape that can be found in 2022, and dubs 1:1 speed and checks dub levels of each copy. I would gladly pay little extra for the latter, regardless of manufacturing costs. Just for the extra attention and care.


In metal scene there used to be, and sometimes still is, weird thing called "trade points". Jewelbox CD being less of value than digipak CD, or LP being less value than gatefold cover LP. Or color vinyl vs black. Or someone asking 1 trade point more because LP has poster in it. As if spending 30cents per album really increases +25% of its value. While those costs are totally irrelevant, and could be evaluated only if you compare also printruns.

Out now - WCN Podcast #36 with STEWART SKINNER!

https://youtu.be/ajl3d8chB-s
https://youtu.be/ajl3d8chB-s
https://youtu.be/ajl3d8chB-s

There will be no public episode next week, and possibly the week after, as I take some time off to handle some important life business. There will be WCN TV content for supporters in this time though. Now is really the time to support WCN Podcast if you aren't yet!

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Really funny episode, where mr. Skinner keeps playing with Oskar all the time, just mixing all sorts of bizarre stories in middle of more serious talk. It seems there was some technical issues there, sound/pic sync and occasional disconnecting. Talking over eachother perhaps due the sound taking a bit to travel across the planet? But not bad. There is lot of talk there.

I was slightly puzzled about the discussion how we should get over "texture" in noise and get into something else. And then even more confused when Incapacitants and such were examples of non-textured noise. what?!? For me it feels like Incapacitants is just about all texture. No "rhythm", no composition, no edits, no... well you know the drill. But turns out, it gets explained later on what is meant by texture. In this case, it's "post The Rita noise". Walls of uniform texture. Tape side filled with single minded rumble. In that sense, yeah, Incapacitants actually has the human texture makers, who actively are knitting it together, but also ripping and shredding. So yeah. It was clarified.

But in other hand, I don't know is it american thing again, since when thinking European noise, is there much of texture noise there? Or is it more the internet problem? I think its been discussed in WCN podcast before, that online, you got everybody doing meme HNW. Probably no shortage of crackle studies and textures. When you look at the physical noise world, it feels like suddenly there is this guillotine of relevancy in place. "Artists" thinking, HNW meme may be funny, but not that funny that I'd be dubbing 50 tapes and mailing them out. And suddenly there is vastly more healthy and more creative level of noise, when material just has to be worth of time and money you need to spend. It's been almost inhumanly good noise tape year for 2022, and if anyone is going to be preparing "best of 2022" lists, I would assume the difficulty will not be can one find enough titles for top-5, but how to hell pick top 5 when even latest batch of one label may be have worthy of top-5!

Cheers for Industrial Recollections comment!
Occasionally people have said CD's are cheap, when they are almost just the original design and original graphic. With Govt Alpha, Monde Bruits, Black Leather Jesus etc stuff coming in near future, it felt like there just can not be any revisionism. What a desecration would be to change drastically cover envisioned by Akifumi Nakajima? Or coming up with some new front covers unrelated to originals? Change typography into something totally unrelated? Some would prefer new typesetting not scan of original tape, but I see releases as document of existing tape. Not remake. Ideally.  Black Leather Jesus CD, that it going to be sound you hear when you listen tape. Not remaster, not tweaked and boosted. Just the dirt it was. Cover format is digipak, but tape art I had, fit CD diameters perfectly. 

Lovely episode! A joker, a smart guy and very restless - that's him. I can't speak for him 100%, but he is an artist that likes to do harsh noise in his own way, without having to partake in "the harsh noise community." He mentions Thomas DeAngelo (Crisis of Taste), Allen Mozek (Vitrine) and Jim Strong, and it's really from those circles he comes rather than the harsh noise scene - more experimental noise rather than NOISE noise, so to speak. That background naturally colors his way of doing harsh sounds, and what he seeks and takes to heart in his own listening.
He's fun and very inspiring yet demanding to work with - always 100 ideas running, out of which one may reach the finish line as an actual fully realized project/release, but that one thing is usually excellent in the end.

One thing that was talked in couple episodes is that should you be pestering guy who has "retired" and try to lure him to... reissue? Interview? New stuff? Some opinions has been that you should just leave them alone. That's what was decided with for example S*Core. He did volunteer for interview, but for re-issuing stuff, it was firm no thanks as that creative vibe was past. Unfortunate, but got to respect that.

BUT, then we can see things like basically retired guys do make comeback. I believe RRR/Emil Beaulieau was pretty much -done-, long long time ago. Then that new wave of USA noise brought the new energy, suddenly massive touring, all sort of things and label was again back in business with massive energy.

Or story of Mortiis. Roger of CMI kept asking him year after year, please please play old Mortiis set for CMI fest, and not that goth rock stuff. Mortiis firmly says no thanks, until after multiple more requests and a bit more cash on the deal, and the rock line-up scattering around.. and suddenly, next time Roger asks, he says yes. And that lead him into playing ton of shows, creating all sorts of non goth rock recordings and so on. It was all matter of label boss making sure artist knows doors are open here, when you are in state of mind that you want to come.

I have had bunch of guys say firm no to making release or re-issue, only to later on contact me that they'd like to do something or offer exact release formerly considered not to be reissued.

I would think there is easy to see difference, that you should not be harassing old guys who just want to be left alone, but that is different thing than thinking that one badly formulated email or social media message, getting "no" in chaos of shitty work day, might not be THE final no. Just that if artists thought he has to go through horrible ordeal of digging through hours and hours of old releases, confusing discussions and end up with box of unsellable deadstock from teenage years.. so label with better offer that doesn't involve THAT, may get yes in some situation. Especially if life situation changed meanwhile.

Oskar, the idea of listing tops / recommendations in the description of the video is very good and would be very useful. Especialy for us with poor understanding of english, when unfamiliar / not well known artists are mentioned even a Discogs search doesnt help. Hans Krisen ? Smegma's guy project ? Mr. Skinner give that list please.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 04, 2022, 09:57:35 AM
I was slightly puzzled about the discussion how we should get over "texture" in noise and get into something else. And then even more confused when Incapacitants and such were examples of non-textured noise. what?!? For me it feels like Incapacitants is just about all texture. No "rhythm", no composition, no edits, no... well you know the drill. But turns out, it gets explained later on what is meant by texture. In this case, it's "post The Rita noise". Walls of uniform texture. Tape side filled with single minded rumble. In that sense, yeah, Incapacitants actually has the human texture makers, who actively are knitting it together, but also ripping and shredding. So yeah. It was clarified.

It was, I think, but I did not take that as referring to a particularly uniform texture, even with The Rita namecheck. I read (or heard) it more as willingly resisting the crunch-splosive textural impetus of an (supposed) "easy" tape saturation. If so, I would get that. Would more than get that, even if I'm a quintessential sucker for the most textured textural texture this side of crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrunch central. There's a lot more I could say on this but will refrain for the moment except to say, goddamn, just loved the A.S.M. love.

Quote from: Theodore on October 05, 2022, 05:29:48 AM
Oskar, the idea of listing tops / recommendations in the description of the video is very good and would be very useful. Especialy for us with poor understanding of english, when unfamiliar / not well known artists are mentioned even a Discogs search doesnt help. Hans Krisen ? Smegma's guy project ? Mr. Skinner give that list please.

Without having watched but looking at your spelling I'm guessing

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zPMvEEb5ifM Hans Krusi, came out maybe 15 years ago, weirdo home tape stuff...maybe just recorded and re-recorded, some playing buckets along to songs on the radio and bird songs and church bells melting completely into each other. Maybe my favorite LP ever, allegedly more material of his exist but has yet to see the light of day.

Dude from Smegma is Ju Suk Reet Meate, there's some solo LP/CD and he also does a project called Tenses. Solo material is pretty much smegma style musique concrete. https://www.discogs.com/artist/555739-Ju-Suk-Reet-Meate

A couple of responses to some older episodes I've been sitting on.

Ted Byrnes
I REALLY enjoyed this one but feel like I'm a super micro niche audience member who is also a drummer and got into noise after being in the musical world before. I understood all of his references and I'm sure it was too specific for other folks to follow during certain discussions about specific drummers, etc. I didn't see a lot of other feedback on this one, so just wanted to throw in that his perspective was interesting and much appreciated from my own personal angle. Also, funny because there have been other mentions regarding a lot of drummers entering noise as another form of expression, but haven't seen a lot of discussions on the subject specifically that have explored detail.

Kate - Noise Widow
I LOVED this episode and thought Kate's perspective from an outsider's point of view was very poignant and hilarious. It was a nice break from the usual artist interview and provided a welcomed alternative narrative to the podcast. More of this! I'm not sure how exactly but something to explore and ponder.

Thanks ! Hans Krusi it is, definetely. Description matches exactly. - Ju Suk most likely too. I didnt catch the name at all, but that's how it was described.

Out now: LABEL SPILL: Noise Label 101

First episode of a new series called LABEL SPILL discussing the ins and outs of running a noise label - the mechanics, trade secrets, and some of my personal opinions on how it's done. In this episode, I start with the basics, and answer some questions that people asked over instagram. I'm looking forward to hearing your questions for the next episode!

Short trailer here: https://youtu.be/7N6yjzva7K4

Full episode on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Good. For those who have been around for a while, a lot of things feel like utterly obvious. Just things you think absolutely everybody knows, but soon turns out that as simple thing as "tape label" is for a lot of (younger) people something they just really found out about and give it a try, without knowing what it really takes. Especially these days.

I think one thing what should be underlined, that as much as one can and should listen good advices, there is also element of conformity in it. You can do label well "by the book", so to say, but there is absolutely possible, and even mandatory to break that conformity. When you got friends and other labels bosses saying, "It can't be done", "this is not going to work out", or other type of talking sense, sometimes it is exactly the senseless what will put the label as topic of noise folklore.

One may think things like MERZBOX. Think era when CD's were expensive and difficult to make, and one label thinks 50xCD box of Merzbow should be done. Now, that would be almost like routine batch thing. Why not. Why not 100xCD box! But back then, idea of 50xCD box priced at 500+, I would assume most said its not going to work out.
Or who would have come up with something like MSBR Records early works. Where you gonna sell them? Who's gonna buy them? Make no sense. But now, its like one of things that define noise as genre.
Examples could go on and on. But also when not being about obscurity, but about attempt to popularize noise. We got just about everybody saying the ceiling of noise release is like... 100? 200? 300? If you would have guy saying he'd about to press 500 or 1000 copies, we all most likely would say it is senseless. But in other hand, it really ain't. On Freak Animal there are multiple releases that have moved about 1000 copies. Of course it takes years to do it, but it is doable in some cases. What may seem senseless to every "noise scene label", may suddenly absolutely make sense when you step out of the smallest core of devotees and start to reach more random buyers who are not noise hoarders, but would like to get good noise CD one in a while, if it was priced nicely and available in place where you repeatedly just see it. For many noise labels this would seem senseless. Why have your CD at record store where some old rock'n'roll buyers are looking for Rolling Stones represses? It might be senseless, but in other hand, we just might be so stuck in "how it is supposed to be", that the other way of doing it is beyond imagination.
That is something I urge for. I don't know how many more labels one needs to have bandcamp, IG and publish same acts as the other label with bandcamp and IG? So one could realize even is 2022, you got options.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 19, 2022, 09:59:39 AM
I think one thing what should be underlined, that as much as one can and should listen good advices, there is also element of conformity in it. You can do label well "by the book", so to say, but there is absolutely possible, and even mandatory to break that conformity. When you got friends and other labels bosses saying, "It can't be done", "this is not going to work out", or other type of talking sense, sometimes it is exactly the senseless what will put the label as topic of noise folklore.
...
We got just about everybody saying the ceiling of noise release is like... 100? 200? 300? If you would have guy saying he'd about to press 500 or 1000 copies, we all most likely would say it is senseless. But in other hand, it really ain't.

You're right about conformity, which to me goes hand in hand with the advice I gave about not obsessing over "breaking even" in the beginning. Of course this, and any, advice encourages some kind of conformity in itself, but so many great and lasting releases and general noise-undertakings came from people just saying "fuck it" and following an inspired idea that might be considered financial suicide if logically assessed beforehand. By the same token though, I think certain kinds of "business minded" approach could potentially have interesting and transcendent effects, in terms of reaching a wider audience. "Pulse Demon" CD being available in the Walmart catalog is one example that comes to mind, but that's pretty old school. There are many more that present themselves in the current technological and economic landscape, but they should be explored with caution in my opinion.

The 100-300 edition size is almost an inside joke to me at this point, quite outdated as a standard. The last few years have shown that if you are producing quality releases and make an effort to promote and distribute them widely, the amount that can move is much higher. The appetite for noise has been growing wider and wider I think, and most serious and unique labels have felt this. Numerous recent WCN CDs have been pressed in editions of 500 and sold out from me within a year, which in 2016 for example I would have considered an idiotic number to press. Like you said, expanding beyond the IG/bandcamp realm is key not only to "moving units" but for the music to have a wider reach and impact. I think it's worth hitting all of the corners - distros big and small internationally, your own sales, trades, freebies, email lists, forums, podcasts, bandcamp, IG/social media, zines, brick and mortar shops, etc. etc. and any other random person or avenue that expresses an interest, don't take it for granted.

Quote from: Theodore on October 05, 2022, 05:29:48 AM
Oskar, the idea of listing tops / recommendations in the description of the video is very good and would be very useful. Especialy for us with poor understanding of english, when unfamiliar / not well known artists are mentioned even a Discogs search doesnt help.

There is this list on Discogs with all the artists/groups mentioned by the interviewees:

https://www.discogs.com/lists/WCN-Podcast-Guests-Favorite-Noise-and-related-releases/1106918

Quote from: Eloy on October 21, 2022, 01:06:26 PM
https://www.discogs.com/lists/WCN-Podcast-Guests-Favorite-Noise-and-related-releases/1106918

Theodore - Dedicated To Those Who Are Still Willing To Do The Paperwork

Format: Text
Label: Nerd And Catalog - NERD&CATALOG-1
Country: Greece
Released: Oct 21, 2022
Genre: Non-Music
Style: Tribute, Parody

Quote from: Eloy on October 21, 2022, 01:06:26 PM

Quote from: Theodore on October 05, 2022, 05:29:48 AM
Oskar, the idea of listing tops / recommendations in the description of the video is very good and would be very useful. Especialy for us with poor understanding of english, when unfamiliar / not well known artists are mentioned even a Discogs search doesnt help.

There is this list on Discogs with all the artists/groups mentioned by the interviewees:

https://www.discogs.com/lists/WCN-Podcast-Guests-Favorite-Noise-and-related-releases/1106918

thanks for the link

Quote from: Eloy on October 21, 2022, 01:06:26 PM

Quote from: Theodore on October 05, 2022, 05:29:48 AM
Oskar, the idea of listing tops / recommendations in the description of the video is very good and would be very useful. Especialy for us with poor understanding of english, when unfamiliar / not well known artists are mentioned even a Discogs search doesnt help.

There is this list on Discogs with all the artists/groups mentioned by the interviewees:

https://www.discogs.com/lists/WCN-Podcast-Guests-Favorite-Noise-and-related-releases/1106918

Huge thanks to whoever did this. There have been many requests for this and I know it would be helpful, but the seemingly small task has always felt extremely arduous for me when doing post production for an episode and I can never bring myself to do it, like it's the straw that will break the camel's back. I need an unpaid intern!

Out now! Sam McKinlay of the highly influential harsh noise project THE RITA, joins me for a follow up to his March 2022 interview on WCN Podcast. In this 2.5+ hour conversation, we dig deep into a wide range of topics including recent commentary on texture and the future of harsh noise, his passion for extreme skiing, advice for newer artists, his favorite halloween horror films, just to name a few. Not to be missed!

This is a WCN TV series, only available at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Watch Part 1 of AFTERBLAST with Sam McKinlay of THE RITA on YouTube now!

https://youtu.be/gchDek73SbE
https://youtu.be/gchDek73SbE
https://youtu.be/gchDek73SbE

Seems the bit where Sam responds to Stewart is behind the paywall.
Good marketing.

Haha, well, I have already first time in my life actually visited patreon site. Now just have to adjust into actually getting account or however it works..

Out now - WCN Podcast #37 with William Hutson of clipping. / RALE / TATTERED SYNTAX!

https://youtu.be/kJn2v-_DtSA
https://youtu.be/kJn2v-_DtSA
https://youtu.be/kJn2v-_DtSA

Good episode. Listened it at one session yesterday. Lots of hip hop things, but I'd guess amount of harsh noise/noise talk is equal or even more than normal episodes have, as this is so long. It didn't become too long at all,  if you ask me.

It is funny that it gets mentioned many times by Oskar how big clipping. is, but I was familiar with TATTERED SYNTAX and Anthracite, but I doubt I ever heard clipping. mentioned in my life.  When talking to friend, he mentioned it is one of those Wire approved noise bands. That is nice category to put it, I guess! And may explain why never heard of it.

While ago I had discussion about Cult Of Youth, and American friend considered them pretty big name, while I mentioned I have never had single person ask me their stuff, nor I have heard anyone to talk about them over here. While there is no shortage of sales, talk or appreciation for wide variety of eccentric neofolk -related stuff. I mentioned, I have no doubts they are relatively big and successful, but I don't know if "big" is right word for it?

Question would be interesting, is it possible to be "known"/"big" in such a scattered music culture as we have now and what does it mean? Ability to tour? Getting some press coverage? Sell slightly more units than random newbie? etc? If noise artist would get bigger, what kind of things it does cause, that having pretty much microscopic recognition doesn't cause? I would guess label perspective could be easy to ask. It might be difficult to find artists that somehow made "breakthrough" (in level of noise), as funny is it may sound? Got name, reached non-scene audience, put out stuff on music labels, noticed that people actually knows your work, perhaps pay big bucks for it, etc. etc.  How different it is from being 100 copies C-20 -category, and what reaching slightly bigger "success" would mean?

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 10, 2022, 03:12:34 PM

Question would be interesting, is it possible to be "known"/"big" in such a scattered music culture as we have now and what does it mean? Ability to tour? Getting some press coverage? Sell slightly more units than random newbie? etc? If noise artist would get bigger, what kind of things it does cause, that having pretty much microscopic recognition doesn't cause? I would guess label perspective could be easy to ask. It might be difficult to find artists that somehow made "breakthrough" (in level of noise), as funny is it may sound? Got name, reached non-scene audience, put out stuff on music labels, noticed that people actually knows your work, perhaps pay big bucks for it, etc. etc.  How different it is from being 100 copies C-20 -category, and what reaching slightly bigger "success" would mean?

Yes it is possible to be known and big in all of it because God is War is proof of it. Especially after I did that tour with Full of Hell and Blood Incantation. Eventually TCU will too because we have a collaboration in the works with The Body and am planning one with World Peace. My label bought me my Makenoise Strega. I sold through all my artist copies of my LP on that tour with Full of Hell and had to buy more from the label. The label pressed 500 copies of my newest LP and the label is looking to reissued next year it because its looking to be sold out from the label by then.

Trust, don't be surprised when Crawl of Time goes this route too.

It's very different in terms of the shows which will have people in the audience and the money, other then that performing is still just performing as always.

Big in what audience ? In any genre, noise as well, one could only be as big as the audience of the genre is. A 'noise' band big in pop audience ? Sorry, something is not going well ... A noise guy doing something else, ofcource he can be big / known / famous if he is good at this, either that be other kind of music or his profession, whatever.

Well, this is what I mean, question being: What it really means to be big? It is not unreasonable to think that band/artist could do most of these things mentioned above without being "known" or "big". Merely being good may be enough and suddenly 500 units of album may sell, and gig offers coming in, etc. while being largely unknown and small artist firmly standing in corner of niche scene.

My speculative evaluation would be like Merzbow, as obvious example, could go to Helsinki, Riga, Prague, Berlin, Hong Kong, Pittsburgh and his work or name would be known to some extent. Pull crowd, awake media etc.  Something that is beyond the bands who are merely known in context of noise, or happened to get good warm-up slot.  

As successful as God Of War would be, and even when being right there at top of contemporary noise foodchain, I have my doubts if being at venue of mentioned cities, would there be audience who are aware of any releases? This is certainly valid for my own works. Despite several albums have sold 1000 or so, it seems obvious that beyond fairly narrow genre and geographic frame, nobody else knows any of it. Out of mentioned cities, maybe Helsinki would have more than couple or handful of people aware of existence of project(s).

So what really separates the "big" and "small" noise? If difference is article on non-noise magazine or album selling twice as much as newbie did with debut album, difference seems almost nonexistent. I would assume one way to really be "well known" is being able to pull local crowd without headliner in many different countries and cities? That would be interesting to know what is that type of "big noise" in 2022. Now that I think, actually Puce Mary, Pharmakon, perhaps Prurient too, was something that they could do it. Just curious if I can be totally clueless about clipping. maybe there is other contemporary big noise, that I just didn't think about.

People want to be 'in' , people want to pretend that they know things, about a lot. Well, these are the names the average people interested in 'things' knows when the genre 'noise' is mentioned. And yes they might go see them when playing in the city even though they dont care about noise really. They may buy their album too to put it in their small collection that is consisted of a little of everything. - But why they know them and not others ? Good question. Obviously they are good enough. But many others are good too, even better. Maybe it's matter of they are more active, they care more about 'music career' , they have better PR, even manager ? Dont know.

Merzbow is the absolute token of noise. Just like a non metal guy may go to an Iron Maiden concert, the same way they go to Merzbow.

Not really chiming in on the topic in general, but I think it's worth specifying here that clipping. is not a "noise" project at all - they are are a hip hop group. When you listen to their music, it sounds clearly like hip-hop music - albeit incorporating elements of harsh noise, industrial, experimental music etc. in the production, but it could not be mistaken for "noise". In this context, they really are "big", in that they have a fanbase of tens of thousands that loves them for being a hip-hop group and have probably very little knowledge and/or interest in noise music.

Haha, yes, well, the friend who said one those Wire approved noise bands. continues in next sentence saying "so, not really noise at all".

When reading for example Noise Widow, you get quite many remarks .. was it about guys with beards coming to talk and ask if you know Pharmakon....  It is kind of side effect of some sort of success, I guess. I do not know any noise heads - besides myself - who actually has Pharmakon records. In NW magazine, ways it is used, it seems like synonym of stuff, that non-noise people can apprecite and think they are listening noise, while harsh noise people don't see it has anything in common with Noise with capital N. 

This is along questions that feel interesting. Could the real deal harsh noise become "big" anymore. Is it only  possible for genre originators, and some sort of alternative music flirting with noisy sounds,  and kind of out of reach for any new actual noise?

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 10, 2022, 11:17:24 PM
Could the real deal harsh noise become "big" anymore?

I ask myself why and/or if it should strive to get "big"? What for? Economic success is nothing that I associate with Noise. And I cannot see it as a goal anyway. Even though we live in a world that makes it pretty much impossible to avoid living in capitalist structures, Noise relies on them very little. Releases are done in super small editions with extensive packaging and still sold for reasonable price that makes break-even almost impossible. There is only minimum "advertising". Labels work in a very different way than "real" music-labels. There is no need for the faux-professionalism that we see in parts of the extreme-metal and hardcore scenes, where music is more of a career-choice than an expression of the artist self and which pretty much kills the vibe that made the scene in the first place.

Enough art is created while keeping economics and commercial exploitability in mind already. The educational system is shitting out new "artists" non-stop. Rather keep Noise underground and exciting.

Wait. And sorry for derailing the thread. But Dr Hutson wrote about fucking While You Were Out for his fucking PhD dissertation? Like, are more pearls to drop on this subject? Like,


.

Quote from: -NRRRRK- on November 11, 2022, 09:24:40 AM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 10, 2022, 11:17:24 PM
Could the real deal harsh noise become "big" anymore?

I ask myself why and/or if it should strive to get "big"? What for? Economic success is nothing that I associate with Noise. And I cannot see it as a goal anyway. Even though we live in a world that makes it pretty much impossible to avoid living in capitalist structures, Noise relies on them very little. Releases are done in super small editions with extensive packaging and still sold for reasonable price that makes break-even almost impossible. There is only minimum "advertising". Labels work in a very different way than "real" music-labels. There is no need for the faux-professionalism that we see in parts of the extreme-metal and hardcore scenes, where music is more of a career-choice than an expression of the artist self and which pretty much kills the vibe that made the scene in the first place.

Enough art is created while keeping economics and commercial exploitability in mind already. The educational system is shitting out new "artists" non-stop. Rather keep Noise underground and exciting.

What stirred my question, was the WCN talking about being "big", and in relation to noise, even if not in this case pure noise project.
Like my replies say, I don't think there are many things being "big" enables in noise, what are somehow different than being small noise artists who just does their thing.
However, benefit that being bigger would be, could be something such as live show organizer in specific city booking Heat Signature, A Fail Association, Koufar or whatever, as they feel the artists is known enough, to pull crowd and be worthy of one or couple plane tickets. As a noise fan, and audience member, it would be certainly nice. Good noise bands, big enough, to be recognized legit artists worth to bring over, and trust audience has heard about them in some sort of platform that introduces them good artists.

My feeling is, that the last one does not exists, and it leads to lot of things, such as accepting there barely is "well known big noise" to be expected. Not negative, nor positive remark, just observation how it probably is.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 11, 2022, 08:02:00 PM
My feeling is, that the last one does not exists, and it leads to lot of things, such as accepting there barely is "well known big noise" to be expected. Not negative, nor positive remark, just observation how it probably is.

I agree with that. "Big" in relation to the scene, but in no way in relation to a successful "regular" music-act. Size of the "scene" being the natural limit and with the wide-spread, almost isolated "cells" of noise-fans everywhere making it even harder.

WCN Podcast #38 with Tom Moore of the label THRONE HEAP out now!

https://youtu.be/WFPoTmiS1Tw
https://youtu.be/WFPoTmiS1Tw
https://youtu.be/WFPoTmiS1Tw

Good one again.

I think one thing, what was once mentioned in advices about artists contacting label, I think one easy indicator is honest interest in physical releases. All the time you tend to get contacts from people who have mass-mail prepared, that says they are big fans of your label, but clearly have no idea what it is that the label really does. Submitting type of sound to label who never puts out that stuff.

When you recognize the name of guy, as someone who actually bought something from you over the years, maybe seen at gigs, maybe written comments on topic somewhere, and it may hint the guy has actual interests in art form. Honest appreciation for your label or other artists are not qualities that ensure noise they make is good, but at least for me it makes likelihood of listening promo vastly higher.  If you get feeling it is just some bozo sending out mass mail to everybody in hopes someone with catch it,  and he has zero connection to any of it, it is very likely material sucks ass and totally lacks perspective.

Someone who doesn't want to be involved, ain't buying physical items, isn't interested in what labels do, I do wonder who they want to be on one in first place, but appears that there is plenty of those. I know some buy stuff elsewhere, and its not like you'd have to buy your way into label. It is just one of many indicators of honest interests in exact thing.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 10, 2022, 03:12:34 PMclipping.

Seeing a packed out with mostly non-noise-people Corsica Studios going absolutely wild to a track sampling Wriggle Like an Eel gave me some glimpse into a parallel universe where Noise actually is big :D

Going to see them again on Thurs :)

QuoteSo what really separates the "big" and "small" noise?

"big" noise artists make Music but have the music press still call it Noise :D

Quote from: Cementimental on November 15, 2022, 06:05:47 PM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 10, 2022, 03:12:34 PMclipping.

Seeing a packed out with mostly non-noise-people Corsica Studios going absolutely wild to a track sampling Wriggle Like an Eel gave me some glimpse into a parallel universe where Noise actually is big :D

Going to see them again on Thurs :)

QuoteSo what really separates the "big" and "small" noise?

"big" noise artists make Music but have the music press still call it Noise :D

That last bit right there Tim. Correct.

When noise gets "big" it becomes fine art. You go from "harsh noise" to "a chaotic meditation on embodied conciousness in a rapidly accelerating network of modernity"

Out now - Episode 39: NETWORK GLASS + JASON CRUMER

https://youtu.be/ZSdJBSLWAlw
https://youtu.be/ZSdJBSLWAlw
https://youtu.be/ZSdJBSLWAlw

Starts quite chaotic, everybody talking over everybody kind of thing. Which is why I would prefer 2 guys, over 3-4 guys in podcast. Crumer laughing during half of sentences. Episode starts to get shape after perhaps 1/3 and actually make more sense. Interesting discussions and information will follow.

Most memorable part for me was when they both were talking about noise gear (software, hardware) that supposedly enables to do anything, but kind of all sound the same. Network Glass mentions Max and was it.. modulars? In theory, everything is possible, but in reality, you will hear the "max" or "modular" in everything what is done with these. Crumer mentions Sherman filter back. Recalling giving it a try, and realizing how all these great harsh noise releases that were formerly kind of "how can he do it" -category, and after just unboxing sherman and connecting it with your gear in pretty much default settings and suddenly the golden mid 90's Japanese harsh noise emerges, haha. Yeah... As tempting as Sherman is, that is exact reason why I never bought it.

Of course same argument can be done for everything. Lets say metal junk. No matter if one would say you can do a lot of metal - that is just resonant object. You can relate it to as music instrument like guitar strings, trigger, you can use all sizes and shapes, percussive, droning, scratching, rhythmic, abrupt noise, hum, tonal, whatever.. but eventually when it comes down to noise, a lot of usage is still ...."junk metal noise".

Network Glass explains in the interview escaping this type of thing by approaching his sound as kind of... I'd say technological process than composition. Or if it is composition, it happens in writing, not playing. Just opening raw data as sound file or writing patch or script where program chops soundfile into 500 random cuts. No artists ear or taste involved, just technological process. He even mentions putting out stuff, that he has yet to listen. Writing script, having wav of that, burning on CDR and selling those, not knowing what is on the CDR. Conceptually it can appeal, and sonically too, but I think escaping the "box" is very hard. Not being involved with it with your taste barely changes that. Lets think someone opens raw data as audio file. One can pretend as if you had no idea what it is going to be, and how it will sound. Nevertheless, same as with a lot of gear, it will sound as: Raw data opened as audio file. That's that. It is not like there is suddenly a surprise, and Elvis and ass-fucking samples appeared out of nowhere in middle of elegant noise and suddenly got buried over some weird noise. Like could happen in noise where artist has jumped out of the box and done something what you couldn't expect to happen. Or could, but wasn't sure what the surprise will be.

He does illustrate the difference of noise as music vs the thing he makes. Like the critique against John Cage type of hearing everything as music, is solved by hearing something what sounds too good, is cut away. Leaving just the random noise. Hah.. That it would not be music. Not having parts that resemble you of experience of music, but take the sound as what it really is. Just odd random-ish sounds.

I certainly feel it is important in life to experience noises in a non-musical sense...I think Door is right it can be a failure to express everything as music.
It can get into a very muddled argument about 'non-music' and such- especially the types of things Door is producing, but what got me the most is the notion that when you are just out and about on a walk or whatever, just experience sound and don't think about cutting a tape from it...

this conversation of course could be examined and magnified and turned inside out into a macrocosm but-  don't hear that train as 'INDUSTRIAL MUSIC'



And the gear thing hit the nail right on the head.

Quote from: Strangecross on November 24, 2022, 03:35:31 AM
I certainly feel it is important in life to experience noises in a non-musical sense...I think Door is right it can be a failure to express everything as music.

To me the difference has always been given by intend and context. Train rolling by while walking along the tracks is noise, train rolling by while walking the tracks recorded and released as C10 is Noise(-music). Through the process of recording and everything after there have been made a lot of conscious and unconscious decisions which differentiate the noise from the Noise. So I agree that not everything we hear is music, but it can be turned into "music".

Yes, music and sound being two separate phenomenon, one is all encompassing and the other is behavioral. Behavior- thats why that no matter how anti, noise genre cannot escape rock n' roll or music in general.

I don't know if "rock music" needs to be the reference, but there is something about human behavior and perspective what changes the object when it is placed in display.

Maybe well reference to modern art (as mating call to Jliat, haha..) and thing certain things like display of "ready mades" as art. Or perhaps even hyperrealist painting. Many times artists have expressed the content itself can or should be something meaningless and banal. Content being absolutely meaningless, while the hyperrealistic method is the "content". As a audience, you may wonder why I am looking at this thing? Its just depicting reality as is, not adding anything, nor being aesthetically interesting.

Simply being there, may be the process of "art". Just like sound on tape, when it is sound from tape, into your ears, regardless what it is, is it some sort of sound-object originally not intended as music, not made for musical sense, but just like whatever object displayed on gallery pedastal becames art object, the sound on tape tends to change its nature. As soon as enka song tape has Gerogerigegege J-card, it suddenly is no longer just random enka song tape etc... Bunch of noiseheads will listen it though, while having no interests in such music in general. Why? Who knows.

Does the notion of music/noise change much? I think it is odd to think that listening noise as "music" would mean you start to seek rhythm and melody. If what lead you into listening noise in first place, in music, was the disharmony, distortion, chaos, unpredictability and so on. That would hint that how the brain relates to music, might not be the most traditional one. Hearing sound, might be hearing it "musically", but what that means, might be totally different from associating it with conventions of music (rhythm, melody, harmony) and associating it with all those things you seek from music but can't find - and therefore proceeded into listening sheer noise sound.

Quote from: Strangecross on November 24, 2022, 08:21:17 PM
thats why that no matter how anti, noise genre cannot escape rock n' roll or music in general.

That is why we reject it.

Could harken back to the Sam McKinlay episode. If you drown in a minor avalanche, is that HNW? as long as it is documented

Out now - Pyry Ojala of NUORI VERI on WCN Podcast!

https://youtu.be/wguB1QCFdOA
https://youtu.be/wguB1QCFdOA
https://youtu.be/wguB1QCFdOA

Good one. It does display the challenges in language. Like Nuori Veri describes the decision to use Finnish for lyrics, that it is the language that is used for thinking, dreaming, etc.. that you can express something very differently compared to english. That said, episode is easy to follow and clear. Way more than more hectic USA discussions, especially if multiple people involved. Now you got the pace suitable for listener, hah.. Words you know, calm talk with pace you can follow without missing things.
Nevertheless, knowing the depth of project and his interview(s) in Finnish, there is soooo much more to it, what was said, or could be said.
One clue of that can be found when talking about the kind of rural recording methods, and in english, some moment may be described as crumbling dry plants and recording with contact microphone. In Finnish, discussion quickly escalates into specific plants, specific insects, specific wildlife, importance of those details. None of this would really work in spoken english interview, if it would go repeatedly into "ehm... let me check the dictionary what is word for...", haha. This includes even adjectives used for describing the sound.

Good episode anyways. It just makes me think how current age of podcast interviews probably shifts the attention even more to certain direction. For example, regardless of importance of Japanese noise in history of genre, no Japanese artists in interviews at all. In printed format, this is way less obstacle and language barrier probably less of issue.

I really enjoyed that interview (no surprise, I love Nuori Veri.)

The question about why one would use a particular language instead of another one in their musical projects was interesting because in my humble opinion, it showed how most music is so centered around English lyrics in general that it becomes some kind of given that lyrics should be in English. It's a form of cultural imperialism that becomes less and less questioned as English becomes a tool more than a language for most. I'd also assume it becomes harder to question when English is your native language and that non-native English speakers will always have funny accents or be less fluent than native speakers. It also shows when non-native English speakers try to export themselves singing songs in a non-native language and fail because it doesn't come off as natural, and if they sound in their native language, it sounds funny or impossible to relate to (I'm talking on a mostly western/occidental scene.) And there's the fact our ears are more trained to listen to English lyrics when it comes to non-native-language lyrics than lyrics in other languages as well.

As far as I'm concerned, all the bands or projects I'm in have lyrics in native or local languages, in which we can communicate better, write better lyrics, etc.

Which also makes me think that I always find it funny that English-speaking people would have difficulties reading long foreign names in which we pronounce all the letters whereas they don't seem to think it can be difficult for non-native speakers to pronounce English words in which so many words aren't pronounced the way they're written (which is I believe is why people can't pronounce Worcestershire right or misspell "Night" so often for instance. No diss by the way, my native language is the worst offender when it comes to that kind of stuff.)

Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on November 29, 2022, 10:11:07 AM
which is I believe is why people can't pronounce Worcestershire right

Us English speakers usually can't manage that either.

OUT NOW! Jim Haras of DETERGE / LAUREATE / FUSTY

https://youtu.be/c-z4CgHlTRU
https://youtu.be/c-z4CgHlTRU
https://youtu.be/c-z4CgHlTRU

Great episode.

Any of the following guests you would consider having on in the future?

Aaron Dilloway, Ulex Xane, Philip Best, Richard Ramirez, Mark Solotroff, John Olson, Puce Mary, Pasi Markkula or a translator for any Japanese (or other non-English speaking) artists

Quote from: WCN on December 05, 2022, 07:08:06 PM
OUT NOW! Jim Haras of DETERGE / LAUREATE / FUSTY

https://youtu.be/c-z4CgHlTRU
https://youtu.be/c-z4CgHlTRU
https://youtu.be/c-z4CgHlTRU

Excellent. Die hard noise collectors are always satisfying to hear. One curious aspect that returns multiple times, is Jim urging people to "talk to eachother". As means of being involved in noise, not just some sort of external consumers. I certainly agree. I'm sure some people do not like getting feedback or getting email from people, but generally it seems that this is what most people see as one of biggest flaws of current noise culture. Releases that happen, but disappear in total void of silence. Amazing gigs, nobody talks of. Great new upcoming artists that very few comment. Many many years ago I made conscious decision to comment probably too many things. Writing reviews, talking of releases, writing gig reviews, contacting artists or podcast makers directly and write comment. I know it can be total punishment for someone, opening email and "...not again this guy!", haha.. But someone gotta do it.
There are the category of people who stand for "more noise, less talk", but I feel the opposite. There is endless amount of noise, but surprisingly little public talk. Of course you can always retreat into private chats and all that, but for sake of cumulating information and making a bit more long lasting foundation for something to grow, I feel public discussion in fandom of noise could be more vivid. Nothing to be shy of. Like have you ever seen anyone start topic BEST FUSTY CUNT tapes? You got label with 300+ releases, and people clearly buy them, and out of hundreds of people, where are the guys who feel irresistible urge to talk about their most insane Fusty Cunt tapes? There probably are, but I don't remember seeing.

Salute to all those who make thoughtful comments and feedback on anything related to noise, over whatever platform it may be. I'll always love forums, cannot understand how people roll their eyes at "noise message boards." They're full of solid gold and should be revered.

On another note: please get in touch if you know a Japanese-English translator who could possibly help me do some interviews with Japanese artists. Preferably someone who does it professionally, not just someone who speaks some decent Japanese. Willing to pay fairly. I've had some leads that seems to have dried up, so even if we have been in contact about it previously, please hit me up again so we can revisit.

whitecentipedenoise@gmail.com

Another really great episode. Jim's a solid dude and pretty easy to work with. His willingness to put out new or unknown acts is a sign of true dedication to noise. He took a chance on me by releasing one of my one-off side projects and I appreciate that.
I'm personally not a huge fan of over-the-top special packaging but it's cool to hear his passion for it. Also the tons of advice - a lot of good points made in this interview.

As a side note, Oskar - that release you had with the cassette wrapped around driftwood I'm pretty sure is from Xenojothsz: https://www.discogs.com/release/16575150-Xenojothsz-Naturaleza-Inmutable

Quote from: WCN on December 06, 2022, 03:43:38 PM
On another note: please get in touch if you know a Japanese-English translator who could possibly help me do some interviews with Japanese artists. Preferably someone who does it professionally, not just someone who speaks some decent Japanese. Willing to pay fairly. I've had some leads that seems to have dried up, so even if we have been in contact about it previously, please hit me up again so we can revisit.

whitecentipedenoise@gmail.com

Actually, on second thought you have asked this a few times - surely there is somebody out there in contact with a professional Japanese-English translator. Maybe someone in film, that works with subtitles, etc. I'd be willing to donate to the cause as I think it's important to show the global spectrum and history of noise.

Quote from: morbid_dyspepsia on December 07, 2022, 08:20:31 AM

Quote from: WCN on December 06, 2022, 03:43:38 PM
On another note: please get in touch if you know a Japanese-English translator who could possibly help me do some interviews with Japanese artists. Preferably someone who does it professionally, not just someone who speaks some decent Japanese. Willing to pay fairly. I've had some leads that seems to have dried up, so even if we have been in contact about it previously, please hit me up again so we can revisit.

whitecentipedenoise@gmail.com

Actually, on second thought you have asked this a few times - surely there is somebody out there in contact with a professional Japanese-English translator. Maybe someone in film, that works with subtitles, etc. I'd be willing to donate to the cause as I think it's important to show the global spectrum and history of noise.

Why not contact a university? They should have contact details for this purpose.

Quote from: WCN on December 06, 2022, 03:43:38 PM
Salute to all those who make thoughtful comments and feedback on anything related to noise, over whatever platform it may be. I'll always love forums, cannot understand how people roll their eyes at "noise message boards." They're full of solid gold and should be revered.

Exactly! forums like this are full of insight for people who are more or less new to noise. I'm pretty sure I literally read the whole forum before registering. The podcast is also really great, yet to listen to the newest episode but seems to be another lengthy one so lots of great listening for walking outside...

Quote from: Keruben on December 07, 2022, 05:50:46 PM

Quote from: morbid_dyspepsia on December 07, 2022, 08:20:31 AM

Quote from: WCN on December 06, 2022, 03:43:38 PM
On another note: please get in touch if you know a Japanese-English translator who could possibly help me do some interviews with Japanese artists. Preferably someone who does it professionally, not just someone who speaks some decent Japanese. Willing to pay fairly. I've had some leads that seems to have dried up, so even if we have been in contact about it previously, please hit me up again so we can revisit.

whitecentipedenoise@gmail.com

Actually, on second thought you have asked this a few times - surely there is somebody out there in contact with a professional Japanese-English translator. Maybe someone in film, that works with subtitles, etc. I'd be willing to donate to the cause as I think it's important to show the global spectrum and history of noise.

Why not contact a university? They should have contact details for this purpose.

Definitely an option, but it would be ideal to work with someone who already "gets it," and who might have connections or co-signs from people in the scene.

I don't know if being aware of the Finn artist JUNKYARD SHAMAN. He has lived in Japan for handful of years. I doubt he is able to translator, but if looking for someone who could maybe be interested to be interviewed. It could interesting to hear his perspective on Japanese noise at this moment, while been living there, having projects with Japanese artists, playing shows and so on. New tape on Satatuhatta is brilliant, but also his former works are very much notable. So not exactly Japanese, but perhaps slightly unusual peek to Japanese current scene from eyes of western artist living there.

There's also Kenny Sanderson, right

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 06, 2022, 10:08:05 AM

Quote from: WCN on December 05, 2022, 07:08:06 PM
OUT NOW! Jim Haras of DETERGE / LAUREATE / FUSTY

https://youtu.be/c-z4CgHlTRU
https://youtu.be/c-z4CgHlTRU
https://youtu.be/c-z4CgHlTRU

Excellent. Die hard noise collectors are always satisfying to hear. One curious aspect that returns multiple times, is Jim urging people to "talk to eachother". As means of being involved in noise, not just some sort of external consumers. I certainly agree. I'm sure some people do not like getting feedback or getting email from people, but generally it seems that this is what most people see as one of biggest flaws of current noise culture. Releases that happen, but disappear in total void of silence. Amazing gigs, nobody talks of. Great new upcoming artists that very few comment. Many many years ago I made conscious decision to comment probably too many things. Writing reviews, talking of releases, writing gig reviews, contacting artists or podcast makers directly and write comment. I know it can be total punishment for someone, opening email and "...not again this guy!", haha.. But someone gotta do it.
There are the category of people who stand for "more noise, less talk", but I feel the opposite. There is endless amount of noise, but surprisingly little public talk. Of course you can always retreat into private chats and all that, but for sake of cumulating information and making a bit more long lasting foundation for something to grow, I feel public discussion in fandom of noise could be more vivid. Nothing to be shy of. Like have you ever seen anyone start topic BEST FUSTY CUNT tapes? You got label with 300+ releases, and people clearly buy them, and out of hundreds of people, where are the guys who feel irresistible urge to talk about their most insane Fusty Cunt tapes? There probably are, but I don't remember seeing.

I totally agree. I think that's why zines are still very important. And even this forum. People talk about new and old releases / artists and it's always interesting. In my opinion, it's very healthy to talk about noise and releases or shows because to me noise is 80 to 90% about feelings, and hearing what other people feel about a release you love, or about a show you missed, or about a record you made, is priceless. If we dont talk about it, no one will, because we are so few. Zines for example will last, you will be able to read an interview or a review and enjoy it in 15 years, while a story on instagram about a record is only good for a day. Everything in this society is done with a very short term view, and noise, or the underground in general maybe, should see it as a long term thing, in term of preservation of all these unique recordings and artworks, all these crazy packagings. With all these obsessive people out there! Share your collection, share your views on old and new tapes if you feel like it (I say this but I have a hard time doing it myself...). I dont think that the noise "scene" thing is important, as opposed to noise culture, with its past, its present, and its future. It's such an antisocial genre, filled with a lot of very odd characters, that it makes it something special that needs to be talked about.

And WCN podcasts are amazing for that! Thanks again Oskar, you rule!

Quote from: Neons Fanzine on December 11, 2022, 03:46:54 AM
I dont think that the noise "scene" thing is important, as opposed to noise culture, with its past, its present, and its future.

This. 100% this. Kind of what I was stumbling around my words on why it isn't "music." It's CULTURE.

Out now! Marcus LaBonte of CLOISTER RECORDINGS

https://youtu.be/AqOTH7HlfwU
https://youtu.be/AqOTH7HlfwU
https://youtu.be/AqOTH7HlfwU

Interview takes quite a dark turn when going in detail to health problems. Or lets say, if it goes down to man actually dying and brought back to life, maybe "health problem" is understatement here.

I do not know when I first heard about Cloister, but it was already years. It was always praise, but like Oskar mentions label keeps kind of low key presence. I often just lumped it among those US labels that does good stuff, but do not seem to be available for reason or another. Like Finders or Breathing Problem or such US labels active same time. Which is untrue of course. Several releases I got other formats made by other labels and big part of the artists I have something on collection, just very very little of actual Cloister releases. Very brief contact with him happened just before the above mentioned incident and planned trade never happened. Hopefully one day, hah..

This is one element they discuss in podcast. LaBonte being passionate collector as well. You can always hear certain tone of excitement, when there is actual noise / industrial collector talking. There are people who have cumulated stuff, but there is difference for guys who also do not follow particular trends. You know now what types of releases would be neat to collect, but then going into talking about urge to keep carrying stuff like Apoptose despite it has no real demand at USA. And praising African Imperial Wizard and so on. Or confessing the kind of less admirable, yet obsessive habit of collecting multiple versions.  Was it up to 7 versions of specific Trepaneringsritualen title.. That element is very good in running label, when not only being excited of stuff you put out in deeper level and perhaps also being excited about stuff that other labels / artists are doing. They do touch the topic of some labels perhaps being more interested in signing easy and sellable artists, and just selling items. I don't know if there really is that many labels who would be most of all in it for money (as choice of genre would seem odd for that reason), but there certainly may be variation of degree label is part of overall passion to industrial/noise culture or perhaps something else.

Also his style of arranging shows is neat.

I hope Prurient ends up on WCN sometime in the future. One can hope. The 2 episodes on noisextra with prurient were nice, but I think they just scratched the surface of the mere beginning. There's so much to Prurient and Dominick's side projects that I would love to learn more just about anything. Such a prominent figure in noise/PE overall. It's a shame that there isn't more interview material.

Good one with Marcus. Luckily literally dying didn't turn him off death industrial, would suck if he changed the path of Cloister. We need labels with that profile. His excitement about his collection is really infectious too.

This is a crosspost, but I hope some of you will recognize the sincerity of my words and take action:

We are wrapping up the first full year of WCN Podcast, currently tallying 33 podcast episodes and 12 WCN TV episodes so far in 2022. Being able to amplify the voices of the human beings behind the noise is a great joy for me, and I am honored to see the show discussed and praised so widely on a regular basis. I intend on carrying on in full force into next year, but that is entirely contingent on the support I get from this small and dedicated scene that I am doing my best to serve with this project. So, if you are a viewer or listener of the podcast, have had your project or label shouted out on it, or simply value its existence as a platform for disseminating noise culture, I ask that you support it via Patreon. Without mutual support, this scene ceases to exist, so please take the step to support White Centipede Noise Podcast and ensure its existence.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Out now! Victoria Shen of EVICSHEN on WCN Podcast:

https://youtu.be/-aNsfq1-U-g
https://youtu.be/-aNsfq1-U-g
https://youtu.be/-aNsfq1-U-g

Interesting one to see artists who come from quite different angle to noise. In one hand, it ain't more than one step away from guys like myself. Having been involved in arranging plus playing many shows with Jessica Ryland, and her important to EVICSHEN comes clear in episode. Nevertheless, with just one link away from here, it seems very very distant and until now never heard anyone to even mention the name.

There is moments where is being discussed the kind of gap between the contemporary art music and noise. As soon as the as latter one bluntly describes itself "NOISE", the academy rejects it almost without exception. While material, methods, and artistic integrity could be as high, if not higher. For me, this appears most of all matter of class. There is certain way one has to talk and dress up, what sets you into specific class. As soon as you can drop line to CV, stating that sound performance you make is focused on spatiality and destructurilazion of human behavior, suddenly you got the residence open on the other side of the world. If you'll be focusing on sick sounds and juicy topics, that'll be other kind of opportunities.

For me, it would be utterly interesting to see some documentation, how the sound art compares to NOISE. As example, decade ago playing at Fylkingen Stockholm, and in the storage was meter after meter new CD releases. I asked the guy if they sell. And he replied, "no". Explained that CD's get done, because they have funding for it, but pretty much nobody buys this stuff.  Compare that with noise, where guy who has zero history in genre, knows absolutely nobody, and nobody knows him. Announced tape, and it gets sold out, just because people & couple labels were interested to hear what's up with this new project.

Related to that, some of the shows people have played, are being discussed decades later how great they were. You can walk into modern art museum even today if you wish, and there is most likely one or more sound piece going on. Some sort of noisy experimental soundscape that absolutely nobody cares. You see zero people putting on headphones. If it happens, it's like 30 sec and they move on like they do with looking paintings. Sure, you got your sound installation or multimedia piece into museum, but... what is that? Often looked as success, going into place? We got guys raving about power electronics tape made 30 years ago in edition of 50, while highly funded sound art - nobody remembers, nobody cares, it remains most of all as line on CV, so artists will get another residence and gallery space to do the same thing. So, it would be interesting to hear the "other side" so to say. People involved in that type of thing, do they see it differently? Does it produce some results?

Like in case of Evicshen, playing for young crowd, who is not prepared for noise at all. Hundreds of underage young women getting exposed to harsh noise when Evicshen warms up for some sort of music band. She mentions it does have meaning - and out of hundreds of people, some actually contact to later on to tell what kind on impact it made. I wouldn't be surprised if it would ignite sudden interest in noise for some people who simply had no idea that this type of material exists.

They do mention the difference of noise show of shirtless men vs.. something else. haha. It would be curious to test, how would be audience in 2022 in Finland if there was known artists touring. Like Jessica Rylan back in the day, pulling decent crowd in every city, was it 4 dates in Finland. Very different kind of crowd that would come to see macho noise. I don't know does that crowd exist now in relevant numbers, to the level that would come to see gig in wednesday night. Evischen mentions that she would feel odd or cautious to go play shows in Russia or eastern europe. Maybe Finland belongs to this terror-zone, and can't expect to see Evicshen play here.

2 new year end wrap-up Christmas specials out now on WCN TV!

I break down my top 10 noise releases and general noise highlights of 2022 on this WCN TV Christmas Special. Afterwards, I hit the streets of Cologne with my TV crew and a pair of headphones to see what people think about my top 10 noise releases of the year.

Trailer:
https://youtu.be/FfTZl47uu3k

You can see both full episodes and much more at:
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

The street gallup was hilarious. Hilarious in a very awkward way like some Danish comedy can be... The rainy Christmas market was a perfect backdrop. Who does this kind of thing anyway? Nobody, and that's perfect. Old school noise silliness. Haha! And also it felt like it wasn't made "just to be a meme" but had a genuine investigative angle to it despite the obvious humor. In some parts there was even actual discussion about the sounds. A delightful video.

I want to be like the last gentleman when I grow old.

Full video OUT NOW on YouTube, previously published on Patreon as WCN TV Premium content:

WCN TV: Noise On The Streets of Cologne at Christmas, 2022

https://youtu.be/L33L9B7sN58
https://youtu.be/L33L9B7sN58
https://youtu.be/L33L9B7sN58

Support White Centipede Noise Podcast for more exclusive content like this:

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

There is also a new Noise On The Run episode out now on Patreon called: Forced Participation

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: WCN on January 02, 2023, 01:33:28 PM
Full video OUT NOW on YouTube, previously published on Patreon as WCN TV Premium content:

WCN TV: Noise On The Streets of Cologne at Christmas, 2022
https://youtu.be/L33L9B7sN58

The older lady who makes conclusion that new T.E.F. is kind of like Iron Maiden or Metallica, while it is funny, in a way it even makes sense.

Years ago, at school reunion, women asked what I'm doing. Still noise. "Noise.. like 69 Eyes?", "nah... not like that.. a bit noisier!".

There is that one CD + book where they play experimental music for people at countryside africa, who have no experience of experimental music of any kind, and I recall not even experience of headphones or music in general. Then reactions are in the book. Ground Fault was involved in publishing it. There was sort of exotic element that may not go well today. It is interesting to think that the chaotic and fairly synthetic sounding progressive metal music (= read the contemporary production) may sound to normal person almost as T.E.F.   A lot going on, guitar resembles as controlled distortion patterns, drums less about rhythm as everybody seems to be in middle of "solo" all the time. Like would fast throb of Bloodyminded analogue synth sound that different from triggered drum of death metal bands? Or if mass of downtuned guitar is different that VCO blasting via distortion? The ordinary dude may not hear much difference. It would be curious to be able to hear it like that for a while again.

New Noise On The Run episode was really nice, kind of rambly essay with good points made. As an newcomer in "scene", there was lots of thought-provoking things in there. Kudos to WCN and Oskar.

Evicshen episode was also interesting, especially this kind of "academic" or high art-angle seeping through the discussion. I find it interesting that Evicshen's live presentation, that includes selfmade instruments, power tools etc. and is really energetic and some ways confrontational, doesn't really translate to her recorded output at all. I'd prefer to hear those unique sound sources and ways of producing noise rather than Harvard soundlab 100k Buchla and Serge systems, that were mentioned in debut albums promotional texts. I'm rambling here, but could this be an example of  playing it safe and catering for some intented group of potential customers that posess "good taste" and prefer to hear something else than some grotesque metal junk bashing and power tools misuse?

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 04, 2023, 09:54:21 AM

Quote from: WCN on January 02, 2023, 01:33:28 PM
Full video OUT NOW on YouTube, previously published on Patreon as WCN TV Premium content:

WCN TV: Noise On The Streets of Cologne at Christmas, 2022
https://youtu.be/L33L9B7sN58

The older lady who makes conclusion that new T.E.F. is kind of like Iron Maiden or Metallica, while it is funny, in a way it even makes sense.

Years ago, at school reunion, women asked what I'm doing. Still noise. "Noise.. like 69 Eyes?", "nah... not like that.. a bit noisier!".

There is that one CD + book where they play experimental music for people at countryside africa, who have no experience of experimental music of any kind, and I recall not even experience of headphones or music in general. Then reactions are in the book. Ground Fault was involved in publishing it. There was sort of exotic element that may not go well today. It is interesting to think that the chaotic and fairly synthetic sounding progressive metal music (= read the contemporary production) may sound to normal person almost as T.E.F.   A lot going on, guitar resembles as controlled distortion patterns, drums less about rhythm as everybody seems to be in middle of "solo" all the time. Like would fast throb of Bloodyminded analogue synth sound that different from triggered drum of death metal bands? Or if mass of downtuned guitar is different that VCO blasting via distortion? The ordinary dude may not hear much difference. It would be curious to be able to hear it like that for a while again.

People have markers in their mind for situations like this. I think the conclusion is apt. T.E.F. basically makes progressive metal as noise, you are absolutely correct. Metallica were pretty noisy in their day if you were around then, comparatively speaking. As opposed to Poison or Great White.

I've been asked "Still banging on trash cans?" by people not affiliated with music, but who know what type of stuff I do. People get an imprint and relate back to it.


I haven't had a chance to catch up on the newer podcasts, but will as soon as possible.

out on the streets with AKG240s.  right on.

Quote from: Zeno Marx on January 05, 2023, 07:47:16 PM
out on the streets with AKG240s.  right on.

All I had lying around, but they did the trick! Fussing with the cable was a bit distracting and felt archaic in the context. I guess some decent bluetooth headphones would be smoother for next time.

I assumed there would be a humorous undercurrent to this, but that certainly wasn't the goal, and I'm glad that wasn't the only result. I hate "weirding out the squares" as a mission, and I don't find it fun either. I was honestly just curious. Some people from North America have commented that they're surprised at the relative openness and adjacent frames of reference a lot of people had, in comparison to what they'd expect from around where they are, but I wonder how different it would really be. I plan to try it in different cultural contexts in the future, but I imagine I'll hit the limit of variation in reactions and reflections fairly quick.

Quote from: WCN on January 06, 2023, 04:25:52 PM

Quote from: Zeno Marx on January 05, 2023, 07:47:16 PM
out on the streets with AKG240s.  right on.

All I had lying around, but they did the trick! Fussing with the cable was a bit distracting and felt archaic in the context. I guess some decent bluetooth headphones would be smoother for next time.

I assumed there would be a humorous undercurrent to this, but that certainly wasn't the goal, and I'm glad that wasn't the only result. I hate "weirding out the squares" as a mission, and I don't find it fun either. I was honestly just curious. Some people from North America have commented that they're surprised at the relative openness and adjacent frames of reference a lot of people had, in comparison to what they'd expect from around where they are, but I wonder how different it would really be. I plan to try it in different cultural contexts in the future, but I imagine I'll hit the limit of variation in reactions and reflections fairly quick.

Cultural context matters a lot, lived in a very mixed area my entire life. Kinda in suburbia, kinda near downtown, lots of rural folks not too far away, and what I found is that in my area at least that middle ground between the suburban and urban zones are where you'll find the most musical people most likely to be into more extreme stuff like metal. Around here I either hear a lot of rock or a lot of hip hop, no in between. It's very rare to hear anyone listening to anything else and it's almost always whatever is on the radio too. Every once in a blue moon I'll hear some extreme metal or other electronic stuff. I've shown some people what I'm into and they either just have no reaction cause they don't get it or make fun of it. For much more extreme stuff they're just horrified. But the interesting thing is some of these people have been to concerts before usually in the rock and metal genre's and they enjoy it just fine even though if you ever been to a really loud rock or better for this example metal show that it is just a noisy, full body assault that makes what you hear recorded on their albums feel tiny after the show in the car ride home after. There's been a handful of times at shows where I couldn't even tell what song it was since live and direct like that it just sounded so different and so much more like "noise". In fact that's one of the reasons why I also initially liked noise, it felt like that state during a show where your ears are so heavy and ringing that everything just sounds like this endless void of noise that blends together. But you'll never hear these people get into anything too extreme outside of that environment. I think context matters a lot too and most people just don't pay attention to music as anything much more than some social thing and have a hyper focus on things like lyrics (usually one of the first things people get confused about with what I like is the lack or lyrics or how you can barely or not understand them). They don't enjoy the whole textural, sensory dominated aspect of it outside of very specific contexts and even then it's largely overshadowed by a focus on the concrete and easily socially integrated aspects of it.

OUT NOW!

Stefan Aune of KJOSTAD / NEW FORCES / ETC. on WCN Podcast

https://youtu.be/7Fe39Tbso9c
https://youtu.be/7Fe39Tbso9c
https://youtu.be/7Fe39Tbso9c

Check out the extended segments of the interview and get access to download codes of recent KJOSTAD, BREAKING THE WILL, and FORM HUNTER albums that Stefan made available at:https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

It is good that the guys from 3 person interview come alone into return podcast. I would say one to one is best format for podcast.

Lots of good thing in this. One topic, that may be possible to merge, are: locals scenes, who have little, if any knowledge of wider noise culture. And secondly: Book format noise history.

While I know thing or two about Finnish noise scene, I am not entirely sure, but I will make assumption that a lot of people started noise way before they got to know "scene classics". I assume this is the case elsewhere too. You got some guys, who are interested in what was done in London 1982 or Osaka 1984, but most just... want to make noise? Totally oblivious of how the stuff relates into history of genre. Some of the relevant big names now, may have been born out of hearing Prurient, Pharmakon and Bizarre Uproar. If you'd bring up Hanatarashi or Brighter Death Now, it would be like talking about Black Sabbath in 1990. You know, who cares what your father listened to -type of stuff. Haha.

This makes me think, that when history of noise is being once again attempted to be written, can it be history of what we kind of hope it to be... history that sort of makes sense... or could it be the senseless history? Noise that was born of not knowning, even not caring, but what really happened.

This podcast episode makes quite obvious, that while also I will often make the foolish comment about "american scene" or "european scene", these barely exists. Most guys who are involved, are in it from quite diverse, and different angles. Even if it is absolutely fact, that we still do not have a book, that would give you... lets say Grey Wolves, Con-Dom, CCCC, Macronympha, and so on. Like the real deal hardcore big names of noise that should be immortalized into some sort of noise book... but in other hand, when you make book of noise in 2023, that has all the things that "needs to be told", you will wonder why we are talking about that 30 copies tape that came out in Tokyo in 92, while in Portland or Michigan, they had....  And sentence could continue with quite remarkable stories, beyond 30 tapes.

The discussion, can it be done, answer probably is: It can not be done. Noise bible is impossible. What is possible, could be chaotic collection of knowledge, series of books that gather some sort of oral history of noise. Noise, like any form of creativity, has abundance of people who say it can not be done. Then, someone does it. The genre itself is manifestation of things that either make no sense, or are undoable, until someone just... does it. When music cultures have books, like they have classic albums, maybe noise needs bookS, like some artist may have 100 classic albums in their own discography.

Very enjoyable episode, yes. New Forces is one of my trusted labels for good stuff, nice to hear Stefans thoughts behind it & his projects in more depth.

Thinking about it makes me actually dislike the idea of some sort of "History of Noise" book. That would simply canonize some scenes or artists or labels based on personal preference, availability of information or willingness to participate in such a project. With noise, being a DIY movement where it's hard to pinpoint the exact origins or direct influences for regional scenes, such a book would only do a disservice. A podcast series or other format where you can add more content as soon as you find the right person to talk to is much better.

For example, personally I'm not really influenced by my local scene at all. I haven't heard most of the classics nor am I necessarily interested either. Much more influenced by American artists or specific gear than anything local.

Quote from: host body on January 10, 2023, 01:01:11 PM
Very enjoyable episode, yes. New Forces is one of my trusted labels for good stuff, nice to hear Stefans thoughts behind it & his projects in more depth.

Thinking about it makes me actually dislike the idea of some sort of "History of Noise" book. That would simply canonize some scenes or artists or labels based on personal preference, availability of information or willingness to participate in such a project. With noise, being a DIY movement where it's hard to pinpoint the exact origins or direct influences for regional scenes, such a book would only do a disservice. A podcast series or other format where you can add more content as soon as you find the right person to talk to is much better.

For example, personally I'm not really influenced by my local scene at all. I haven't heard most of the classics nor am I necessarily interested either. Much more influenced by American artists or specific gear than anything local.

Another point of view regarding books: I would rather have a book about noise even if it doesn't encapsulate noise as a whole rather than a podcast series (even though I agree with everything you said about their quality). Because books are physical. They are more trustworthy than bits on the internet. They will last. They will most likely be here when there isn't spotify and youtube around. If you document something purely on the internet you put your trust on so many third parties and applications which aren't "future proof". I know I know, when there's a madmax-esque situation going on you aren't probably worried about books or noise in general. But just a general principle in my opinion, you shouldn't trust the internet and the sites there to "document" something for the future generations. Just look at myspace. Servers got corrupted during a migration and everything posted before 2016 gone for good.

That being said, I think just for that fact mentioned above books have an important place documenting culture and they should be trusted more to do the job even though our current cultural and technological situation prefers podcasts and such.

Quote from: SIEGSIEGSIEG on January 10, 2023, 01:52:21 PM

Quote from: host body on January 10, 2023, 01:01:11 PM
Very enjoyable episode, yes. New Forces is one of my trusted labels for good stuff, nice to hear Stefans thoughts behind it & his projects in more depth.

Thinking about it makes me actually dislike the idea of some sort of "History of Noise" book. That would simply canonize some scenes or artists or labels based on personal preference, availability of information or willingness to participate in such a project. With noise, being a DIY movement where it's hard to pinpoint the exact origins or direct influences for regional scenes, such a book would only do a disservice. A podcast series or other format where you can add more content as soon as you find the right person to talk to is much better.

For example, personally I'm not really influenced by my local scene at all. I haven't heard most of the classics nor am I necessarily interested either. Much more influenced by American artists or specific gear than anything local.

Another point of view regarding books: I would rather have a book about noise even if it doesn't encapsulate noise as a whole rather than a podcast series (even though I agree with everything you said about their quality). Because books are physical. They are more trustworthy than bits on the internet. They will last. They will most likely be here when there isn't spotify and youtube around. If you document something purely on the internet you put your trust on so many third parties and applications which aren't "future proof". I know I know, when there's a madmax-esque situation going on you aren't probably worried about books or noise in general. But just a general principle in my opinion, you shouldn't trust the internet and the sites there to "document" something for the future generations. Just look at myspace. Servers got corrupted during a migration and everything posted before 2016 gone for good.

That being said, I think just for that fact mentioned above books have an important place documenting culture and they should be trusted more to do the job even though our current cultural and technological situation prefers podcasts and such.

I agree with all that you wrote. As an librarian, i've been concerned in this phenomenon where all the valuable information and cultural artefacts are stored in these mediums that are dependant on constant availability of electricity or presumed goodwill of market driven corporations.

Quote from: SIEGSIEGSIEG on January 10, 2023, 01:52:21 PM

Quote from: host body on January 10, 2023, 01:01:11 PM
Very enjoyable episode, yes. New Forces is one of my trusted labels for good stuff, nice to hear Stefans thoughts behind it & his projects in more depth.

Thinking about it makes me actually dislike the idea of some sort of "History of Noise" book. That would simply canonize some scenes or artists or labels based on personal preference, availability of information or willingness to participate in such a project. With noise, being a DIY movement where it's hard to pinpoint the exact origins or direct influences for regional scenes, such a book would only do a disservice. A podcast series or other format where you can add more content as soon as you find the right person to talk to is much better.

For example, personally I'm not really influenced by my local scene at all. I haven't heard most of the classics nor am I necessarily interested either. Much more influenced by American artists or specific gear than anything local.

Another point of view regarding books: I would rather have a book about noise even if it doesn't encapsulate noise as a whole rather than a podcast series (even though I agree with everything you said about their quality). Because books are physical. They are more trustworthy than bits on the internet. They will last. They will most likely be here when there isn't spotify and youtube around. If you document something purely on the internet you put your trust on so many third parties and applications which aren't "future proof". I know I know, when there's a madmax-esque situation going on you aren't probably worried about books or noise in general. But just a general principle in my opinion, you shouldn't trust the internet and the sites there to "document" something for the future generations. Just look at myspace. Servers got corrupted during a migration and everything posted before 2016 gone for good.

That being said, I think just for that fact mentioned above books have an important place documenting culture and they should be trusted more to do the job even though our current cultural and technological situation prefers podcasts and such.

Good point, I fully agree with books being the best and preferable medium for archiving due to the reasons stated. However I guess my point was more about the process of compiling oral history: weekly podcasts vs. a book that takes years to write and can only hold so much information. Who's to say that podcast series can't be translittered (which soon will be a trivial process when AI can do it without errors) and later printed as a book, or compiled in a PDF so you can go print it yourself? Book as a medium for preserving information is definitely preferred, but also quite expensive and time consuming to make. A podcast series, all you need is a person to interview and some audio and video editing skills.

Recent incident with Infinity Land Press youtube account was good reminder... was it 14 years worth of content suddenly disappearing when account shut down. No warning. No former deleted videos. Just instanty whole thing going away and only AI bots will reply to inquiries.

For example Freak Animal channel got plenty of content removed or turned "mature audiences" only. Most of Grunt, Contortus, even stuff like mo*te box promo clip. I do hope oskar keeps backups saved that one time if he has wrong kind of guest and channel gets taken down, everything would go down the drain...

As opposed to one book, I feel only way to do it, is ongoing series with chapters. I guess something like CULT NEVER DIES book series is not exactly ideal, but example you could keep putting book after book, just like zine or podcast.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 10, 2023, 11:28:31 PM
Recent incident with Infinity Land Press youtube account was good reminder... was it 14 years worth of content suddenly disappearing when account shut down. No warning. No former deleted videos. Just instanty whole thing going away and only AI bots will reply to inquiries.

For example Freak Animal channel got plenty of content removed or turned "mature audiences" only. Most of Grunt, Contortus, even stuff like mo*te box promo clip. I do hope oskar keeps backups saved that one time if he has wrong kind of guest and channel gets taken down, everything would go down the drain...

Yeah, I wish people would get serious about backups. HDD's cost next to nothing and cloud services are quite cheap as well. Double backups on a HDD and a cloud service should be a routine for everyone. Properly encoded video doesn't take much space, either.

I read about that Infinity Land thing and it's just baffling to me they didn't have backups of the channels. Like, unbelievable almost.

I hope that 2023 is the year when people seriously start considering decentralised/Fediverse services like PeerTube (https://joinpeertube.org/) as a viable alternative to Google and the like. At the very least, using open-source frontends like Nitter (https://nitter.net/about) and Invidious (https://invidious.io/) to view content on Twitter and YouTube respectively is a small step towards taking control of these services. This topic is probably deserving of a dedicated thread...

Quote from: theotherjohn on January 11, 2023, 01:39:22 PM
I hope that 2023 is the year when people seriously start considering decentralised/Fediverse services like PeerTube (https://joinpeertube.org/) as a viable alternative to Google and the like. At the very least, using open-source frontends like Nitter (https://nitter.net/about) and Invidious (https://invidious.io/) to view content on Twitter and YouTube respectively is a small step towards taking control of these services. This topic is probably deserving of a dedicated thread...

LibreTube on Android.

I'm probably in the minority with this one, but, fuck it. Let it all get lost. It's more interesting if everything is gone.
This is me playing devil's advocate with myself also, because I clearly DO love the history and the culture of noise and get devastated when amazing shit isn't preserved. 
Perhaps that is the fate of noise. Die and be born anew.

OUT NOW! AARON DILLOWAY on WCN Podcast, checking in from Kathmandu, Nepal!

https://youtu.be/IwCkSclr5TY
https://youtu.be/IwCkSclr5TY
https://youtu.be/IwCkSclr5TY

Good one.

I think the one question that gets asked now and then, is what happened in (USA) scene after the sort of 2005'ish peak has been done and by 2010 or so... way way less happening. Dilloway mentions financial crash, that caught the noise a bit later. First people could afford beer, weed and noise. Then after few years, finally realizing they can just afford weed and beer. haha.
Well, I have seen handful of times US financial crash being given as one of major reasons for downfall of some music cultures. For examples those that blossomed with CD sales.

I would strongly assume, that instead of that, what we really had was the impact of internet of the time. In 2023, it may be difficult to think how things were back in 2005, compared to just couple years later. If one didn't really experience time before. About 2005, and +- couple years, just about every company started: facebook, youtube, discogs, bandcamp, spotify and so on. Just about all things we take granted now. Guys who formerly may have had all the time in the world to get creative, go to gigs to meet someone, put out tape, put out cd and so on, and within couple of years transition time, we arrive into situation where you got marketplaces selling just about all the formerly released noise on one marketplace. You can talk to people fast online, listen to streaming audio for free of charge without knowing how to search things or communicate. You got several years of everybody putting out more stuff than they can get rid of, massive sales of thousands and thousands noise CD's thrown to people at 2 bucks each or something.

I would assume there is this combination of hot scene running out of steam + suddenly new situation where you are not just buying for the next 5 tape batch, but you got new fast rising global marketplace where you got access for all the 2nd hand stuff you missed over the years. Plus blogs, streams, etc filled with rarities you never had possibility to hear. Plus, movies, games, and countless other things. We have this joke in underground metal about one lost generation of guys. When World of warcraft came out, just about same time as social media rise, there were people who simply were immersed by gaming. So much that all former creative impulses pretty much disappeared. Still today, I talk to people and they mention they haven't got anything done, because have been so busy. And turns out, that "busy", means: games. TV-series.

In a way, entire way of how people spend their time, had such a massive impact on underground art. A lot of guys who have done it out of "having something to do", had plenty of things to do. People who were noise tourists into something new and exciting, had information overload to find plenty of other things that are new and exciting. People who formerly bought from distros and kept what they bought, had possibility to buy 2nd hand stuff and sell 2nd hand stuff easy. Back in the day, discogs wasn't the place its now (back then you could actually score lots of stuff for dirt cheap prices when tons of people listing stuff they never manage to sell locally, without knowing how valuable they could be).

And many more, but basically all reasons could be lumped in category of massive technological leap that changed so much in how things are made and experienced. It took some time until things start to stabilize.


And another thing is, that like Dilloway says, there has been lots of peaks in noise. While the USA scene may have been going downhill, you can see that for example in Finland, 2005 probably marked the moment when live noise really started to happen. That may be also thanks to technology. Finally means to quickly advertise shows to people. Noise shows in finland, from 90's to 2005 happens once in a while. Suddenly entire culture of bunker gigs, private spaces and all that arrives here. New labels start, gigs have decent audiences and so on. More bands, even more bands, and seems like from then on, things only growing to this point.
Swedish tape noise thing happened. At some point there must have been 5-10 labels besides Posh Isolation putting out gnarly DIY noisy tapes in Denmark. Russia had entire own thing going. And so on. We may talk about quiet times in USA noise, while in some other places that exact moment was the peak of activity?

Like now, there is new peak of Japanese noise happening. That's what currently active Japanese guys tell to me. Big crowds come to shows. New projects playing with interest from audience. and so on. What do we know about it here? Where would you have any information of this? Who knows..

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 17, 2023, 09:39:09 AM
Plus, movies, games, and countless other things. We have this joke in underground metal about one lost generation of guys. When World of warcraft came out, just about same time as social media rise, there were people who simply were immersed by gaming. So much that all former creative impulses pretty much disappeared. Still today, I talk to people and they mention they haven't got anything done, because have been so busy. And turns out, that "busy", means: games. TV-series.

It's funny cos now you see a lot of this "gamer culture" influence in noise and music in general. Obviously younger people write what they're influenced by, and I guess it's in a way more honest than just rehashing the same old themes noise has been exploring for 30+ years. But still. Games, especially modern games are so far developed as products, and it's weird how cynical pop culture seems to be taken sincerely by artists operating in a very uncommercial culture. Like, why does it feel cheesy and lame if someone makes a video game themed noise, industrial of heavy electronics release? I play games myself a bit and don't see them as inferior to other past times, like watching TV or w/e. Burial sampled a lot of Metal Gear Solid 2 for his first two albums, and while not noise they have a certain aesthetic and atmosphere that I think is kind of similar, for example to Cremation Lily or some more polished Posh Isolation releases. It works really well, but it's electronic music. Do the same with noise or industrial, would it work?

I think Mikko´s analysis is spot on and exactly what I have experienced around me as well (From a scandinavian viewpoint that is).
To each his own of course, but the millenial generation is so fucked up; social media really destroyed our minds quickly... this "creativity death" can be seen everywhere and in everything. I might just be old and grumpy, but FFS, enjoy the outernet instead and let the creativity flow!

Quote from: host body on January 17, 2023, 02:27:26 PM
I guess it's in a way more honest than just rehashing the same old themes noise has been exploring for 30+ years. But still. Games, especially modern games are so far developed as products, and it's weird how cynical pop culture seems to be taken sincerely by artists operating in a very uncommercial culture. Like, why does it feel cheesy and lame if someone makes a video game themed noise, industrial of heavy electronics release?

I wonder what is the new themes that games offer, what is not present in noise formerly? Or are we talking noise themed on computer games?

It was several years ago, when I first meet guys who came to ask recordings that sound like game soundtracks. Same guys appear to be into dungeon synth, some dark ambient, and... vague category of "game music". That probably doesn't describe any style in particular, but still being used, almost like term "soundtrack", that barely says much what type of soundtrack movie has.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 18, 2023, 08:49:38 AM

Quote from: host body on January 17, 2023, 02:27:26 PM
I guess it's in a way more honest than just rehashing the same old themes noise has been exploring for 30+ years. But still. Games, especially modern games are so far developed as products, and it's weird how cynical pop culture seems to be taken sincerely by artists operating in a very uncommercial culture. Like, why does it feel cheesy and lame if someone makes a video game themed noise, industrial of heavy electronics release?

I wonder what is the new themes that games offer, what is not present in noise formerly? Or are we talking noise themed on computer games?

yes themes are universal, but video games don't touch heavier themes at all, or if they do it's in a over the top, shallow, very melodramatic way. but perhaps i used the wrong word there, general aesthetics are so different in gaming than the old analog world noise is still very much based on. and now games are the #1 past time, there's a whole generation who's only and every influence comes from gaming, and they're already making noise. bandcamp is full of that anime aesthetic stuff. it hasn't really found it's way onto the tape culture or "legitimate" labels, but it's bound to i think.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 17, 2023, 09:39:09 AM
Still today, I talk to people and they mention they haven't got anything done, because have been so busy. And turns out, that "busy", means: games. TV-series.

Catching shades of Black Flag here...

Quote from: host body on January 18, 2023, 01:51:40 PM
yes themes are universal, but video games don't touch heavier themes at all, or if they do it's in a over the top, shallow, very melodramatic way. but perhaps i used the wrong word there, general aesthetics are so different in gaming than the old analog world noise is still very much based on. and now games are the #1 past time, there's a whole generation who's only and every influence comes from gaming, and they're already making noise. bandcamp is full of that anime aesthetic stuff. it hasn't really found it's way onto the tape culture or "legitimate" labels, but it's bound to i think.

When said like this, I do get. But, at the same time, it would be probably fact that 90% of noise doesn't, and never has touched heavier themes at all. Aesthetically there is so much diversity in noise, even among loudest and harshest noise, that bringing computer game aesthetic probably ain't changing much. Now seeing animation / 3D game aesthetics, could perhaps make one think it's so 2005'ish L-White rec! haha..

OUT NOW: Sam Risser of JUTE on WCN Podcast!

JUTE is a newer harsh noise project from Canada, intriguing die-hards with his rugged yet futuristic sound and fresh attitude, with just a handful of releases under his belt. We had a great conversation about his harsh work, and the techno-political themes that compel him, which spilled over into all sorts of adjacent topics.

https://youtu.be/nEA9iUQzP7g
https://youtu.be/nEA9iUQzP7g
https://youtu.be/nEA9iUQzP7g

In the EXT. video on the Patreon, Sam gets into some pretty interesting insider info about the global tape supply from his time working for Canada's biggest cassette tape supplier. There is also an exclusive 20 minute JUTE / BLUE SUNSHINE Video EP available for the Maniac's Circle.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: WCN on January 23, 2023, 07:23:33 PM
We had a great conversation about his harsh work, and the techno-political themes that compel him, which spilled over into all sorts of adjacent topics.

I liked the approach that it very quickly went into "techno-political themes", as opposed to stay merely in sound. Even if critique and conclusions are kind of the usual, despite being usual, they are not really addressed so often in a way that it would lead to making a choice. Like talk about weirdness that global hardcore punk (and noise) scene relies almost exclusively on IG. It is pragmatic, certainly, but something bugs me in that.

One concrete thing is, that if label or band chooses to exists solely in social media, I would still strongly urge to have some place where contact info can be found. There is nothing more annoying than label putting out stuff, artists churning new releases, and only way to get in touch is to "DM". As if they were the doormen of multinational corporations, forcing in the remaining luddities who just have to join social media to even communicate for very basic things like could I purchase your tape?

For some things we have options. Video format is tough, as besides youtube, there is not really good services. Put your stuff on vimeo and at least over here, it is so slow service that watching 1 hour podcast probably would take 2-3 hours with the loading, hah.. Other smaller services seems the same thing. So for pragmatic reasons youtube seems doable. For many other things you have options.

When Jute talks about noise making like using clay, it made me think of this older Canadian noise/experimental project called WANTING TO WORK WITH CLAY. They had split tape with Grunt sometime mid 90's.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 24, 2023, 09:38:00 AM
When Jute talks about noise making like using clay, it made me think of this older Canadian noise/experimental project called WANTING TO WORK WITH CLAY. They had split tape with Grunt sometime mid 90's.

Do you recall any more info about this project, which part of Canada they were from or who was involved?

I would guess that not all is noise, at least by todays standard. Grunt split is this echoing weird sound, but band line-up credits real instruments and all that. I got master tape back then from guy from Mexican Power Authority, which was weird punk-jazz-grind. I would assume they are from same region. I got the full length C-60 from WTWWC, but haven't listened it for decades.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 24, 2023, 09:38:00 AM
For some things we have options. Video format is tough, as besides youtube, there is not really good services.

Couldnt porn 'tube' sites be an alternative for 'banned' / controversial stuff ? Dont know. Or if it's not porn it gets down ? Yes, YouTube has some convenience with tools like 'automatic translation' or you can watch it on TV quickly through the app, but well, we cant have everything ...

I think it was Neons who had uploaded a video on Motherless.

Otherwise, a good complement is the following website. It depends on how 'public' you want everything to be: https://www.archive.org. Another suggestion would be to build the actual archive through a purchased server site and upload it there. Then program a service, and charge a certain amount to maintain it.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 24, 2023, 08:14:30 PM
I would guess that not all is noise, at least by todays standard. Grunt split is this echoing weird sound, but band line-up credits real instruments and all that. I got master tape back then from guy from Mexican Power Authority, which was weird punk-jazz-grind. I would assume they are from same region. I got the full length C-60 from WTWWC, but haven't listened it for decades.

Likely Vancouver Island region, then. Hermit territory... Boros must have some intel. Thanks!

All this talk about Canada makes me want to visit the country. So please let me know if there are any events to visit; with a bit of forethought, this is not entirely impossible to arrange.

Definitely heard the name Jute, or saw the name in distros, but never got around to listening to the artist. I always love seeing noise veterans on WCN, but it's also nice being exposed to "newer" artists. Listened to the first track on that Contempt tape and it's a crusher. Really attentive and skilled building of layers. Will have to get a copy of the tape.

Also agree it was kind of nice getting into some other discussions outside of sounds. Some of the technology-based philosophies surrounding the scene and general life that impact us all. I also really enjoyed hearing some of the technical talk about editing or audio engineering from someone who is well-versed and educated in the manner. The scene is very much built on DIY, self-education, and the like, but the other side can be just as interesting and can expand the collective knowledge base. I'm sure a few ears perked up about the Amadeus software haha.

Eager to learn more about the artist and some of the newer names I've seen floating around.

P.S. Enjoying the longer audio segments at the start to get a taste of the sounds. Video EP was also very cool idea for additional content.

I'm offering the forthcoming INCAPACITANTS / SAVAGE GOSPEL CD as a gift to all Maniac's Circle Patreon supporters, ahead of the release date. Everyone who is signed up by Feb. 5 will receive it in the mail for free!

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Thank you for your support!

There's a new episode of Label Spill with Vilho Koivisto of Satatuhatta out now on WCN TV. In this episode, Vilho and I talk shop about recent struggles with the cassette format, giving feedback as a label owner, and generally about his awesome label. You can see the full 1.5 hour episode, as well as a bunch of other WCN TV episodes, at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: WCN on January 30, 2023, 07:26:31 PM
There's a new episode of Label Spill with Vilho Koivisto of Satatuhatta out now on WCN TV. In this episode, Vilho and I talk shop about recent struggles with the cassette format, giving feedback as a label owner, and generally about his awesome label. You can see the full 1.5 hour episode, as well as a bunch of other WCN TV episodes, at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Halfway through this now and it's been excellent. Really going into detail about the anatomy of tapes for example! Ahhhh, I love it.

Vilho has made many great releases, including Secret Apex and Pain Appendix, to name a few close to my heart. It would have been interesting to hear a bit more regarding the underlying attitude behind the thoughts of the releases in general. Hopefully, Vilho can keep up the pace, continue with his business, and convey even more great releases. A spontaneous thought is if this grew out of boredom of the pandemic. Because this phenomenon appeared out of nowhere, I had never heard of this distro that just appeared a couple of years ago.

Out now - Stuart McCune of CYESS AFXZS on WCN Podcsast:

https://youtu.be/ia0vr3mNuEs
https://youtu.be/ia0vr3mNuEs
https://youtu.be/ia0vr3mNuEs

WCN EXT. - Patreon exclusive extension of the interview: Stuart talks about an early CYESS AFXZS gig that got particularly heated, his gear and technical process, as well as his TOP 5 noise releases of all time and recent releases.
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

One of the best episodes. It is no surprise, I am fan of passionate and even stubborn noise manifestos, hah.. People who feel noise is *too important* to be just... well, what it is. That there must be conscious decision for advancing it.

There is countless pointers what I would have liked to ask him elaborate or consider.

As example, when having some leaning to "fine arts" as he says, and mentions that any art movement would have simply ceased to exist long long ago, and moved to something else. While noise keep churning seemingly same. I would think that is not flaw of noise, but STRENGTH of noise! Let's say you pile up bunch of former decades avantgarde artists and someone is there "I'll have exhibition of black square paintings" or "let's do installation of BLM signs". Just about everybody would sigh: come on man! Large number of examples could be given of something what was DONE. It carries no more value for further work. There is nothing more left to be done of certain things, but for next pure harsh noise thing, those are being done and enthusiastically listened, precisely because it has not lost its vitality. Not even after decades! There is so much more to be done. It is still reinventing itself, but not only in form of art movements that have pathological need of "new", that they can't see that the seek for "new" became pretty damn OLD.

Like the point of thinking conscious noise making as solution for progression of noise? What the hell!? I think it was already 15 years ago, when RAW SHEER LO-FI NOISE appreciation emerged precisely out of RESPONSE for that cerebral, composed, thought-out noise. I mean, you got all advanced, composed, intentional noise, refined sound, edited, "album worthy stuff"... and as response to that, you'd have people looking for emotion and feel, the obscurity and so on, which was meant not as backwards movement, but as vital progress opposed to cerebral noise.

In interview is advocated that it is good that author writing novel, could benefit from reading few books. I fully agree. Nevertheless, I am thinking that "new conscious and composed noise making" happened long ago and has been happening all these years. Like you think noise of 1985, and there ain't Purgist or Pain Jerk there. You think of 90's noise, and there ain't Umpio or Jaakko Vanhala there. You think of 2005 harsh noise, and most of those groups sound vastly different. It is not like you'd be listening Cherry Point, thinking "this is like Texas mid 90's!". Cut Up harsh noise is example how we have heard things now that could have not been made 20 years ago. I think a lot of new innovations done with cerebral noise has been less about technology, more about almost spiritual connection with sound?
I mean, I do smirk a little bit when conversation of one artist building "e-bow" comes in question and example of taking noise further, while I think most of people I know, already in 2005, when seeing someone pull out ebow, would be like "come on man!!!" Almost like how OLD time stretch became. One month it is like unheard thing, and next thing it's like autotune in pop music.


When talking of noise, that is more conscious, having direction, but then he does mention that he is not talking about repetition. Not talking about industrial, since industrial has been already done. It does make me think what it really is in industrial that is done? (One could perhaps remind of amusing remark, that back in the day, it used to be said, if you started a power violence band, it wasn't power violence. THE original power violence was something else. People staring power violence bands were already something else.) Perhaps same could be applied to industrial. The stuff I, or we may describe now as industrial, ain't the TG, SPK, stuff. It is simply small hint to lineage where it (partially) comes from. It may not be rehashing the same. It is barely return to anything. As when you look at the original industrial era, pretty much nobody admits they are part of it, nor feel they were in it. Most artists have musically or aesthetically almost nothing in common. But there is something, some underlying quality. Just like the talk about AMOK books. You can't really describe the world where guys who browse AMOK catalogue live, to guys of 2020.

Doing industrial noise in 2020 is absolutely different from originators, in same ways as artists of that era may have been different from each other. In that sense, if you make leap from TG to John Duncan and next leap, the 3rd name you mention could be.... H.Ö.H. Regardless does artists feel, intend or like it being mentioned together. If you'd put out older John Duncan tape out now, it would probably not sound "old"? It is most likely that 2015 power electronics CD would sound ancient next to that, hah.

H.Ö.H. is curious as example, since that sound could have been made in... late 60's? But compared to noise of 2020, is it regression or progression? It certainly sounds nothing like vast majority of noise of any decade.

I do find it interesting that CYESS AFXZS makes the remark about the danger of noise becoming like free jazz. New free jazz sounding the same, as the old free jazz. Despite all freedom there, the idea what constitutes as free jazz, is what it is. I can surely see that, but I also think I may come from different time and location. I never associated "noise = harsh noise". Noise where I come from, you could have Aube, Small Cruel Party and Macronympha - all together. Listening Aube now sound FUTURISTIC. Listening SCP now, and it sounds like you can't tell what decade it comes from, what country it comes from, always able to surprise. Do we qualify it as noise? Certainly not as harsh noise. Back in the day, noise seemed to be the stuff, what noise labels distributed. A lot of it may not be noisy enough now, to qualify as noise.

In other words, I absolutely liked CYESS AFXZS episode, but as opposed to moving forward - I would advocated moving in general. As he described that everything must evolved, everything must go forward, but in reality there barely is such rule. A lot of mutations dies, a lot of new ways lead nowhere. We may easily take step backwards, see what is strong and vital, what is worth preserving and recycling that will eventually reveal something. Just like the 2005 harsh noise era where many seemed to praise going back to mid 90's crunch, but actually making something entirely new.

Will there be a Grunt WCN Podcast?

Quote from: StrikeFirst on February 07, 2023, 04:17:15 PM
Will there be a Grunt WCN Podcast?

I would say unlikely to be in any podcast (apart of my own,  of course).

as addition, I know Oskar mentioned in 2023 he starts to "break the template", so to say, and this episode good example how well it works out. Picking up quite specific subject proceeding. Of course personal noise history and stuff like that gets covered, but structurally quite unlike any WCN episode before.

Great episode!

Some of points thar Stuart made reminded me of Spenglers concept of "faustian" man or spirit within the western sphere of culture. Indeed the constant hunt for the new things in fine arts world fits into this concept and i don't necessarily agree with it. If i had to choose between quality or something that is percieved as new cool thing and "fresh", i'd go with the quality every time. I agree with Mikko about the idea of moving in general versus moving forward.

If my memory serves me correctly, there were also talk about certain sound sources and approaches that Stuart thought were from the different era. Idea that noise artists should seek and invent new sources, instruments and approaches and discard some others as being obsolete baffled me a bit. It's like saying that classic oil painting techniques are obsolete and those should be replaced with some bold new things. It's like hammer is been blamed for the shortcomings and uncreativity of the carpenter using that hammer.

Great episode!
I disagree with alot of Stuart's examples and his take on the general state of things. Structure - obvious and less obvious/more hidden, intentional and unintentional - has always been there, hasn't it? I'd say it's something many noise artists with a background in rock, pop, metal, punk, whatever are even struggling to get away from with their noise, and not always successfully so. It's almost always there in some way - in how you time your shifts in timbre och temper, or how you begin or end your pieces.
What might be more rare is what Stuart does though; for example with his feedbacking shaker box referring to certain aspects or details in some painting or artwork which he revers and draws from. That adds alot to an already great cassette (Tapies) for me. As does his high ambitions in general.

Refreshing interview! Always nice to disagree wholeheartedly on so much. I think I like Cyess Afxzs even more now.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 07, 2023, 04:07:22 PM
One of the best episodes. It is no surprise, I am fan of passionate and even stubborn noise manifestos, hah.. People who feel noise is *too important* to be just... well, what it is. That there must be conscious decision for advancing it.

There is countless pointers what I would have liked to ask him elaborate or consider.

As example, when having some leaning to "fine arts" as he says, and mentions that any art movement would have simply ceased to exist long long ago, and moved to something else. While noise keep churning seemingly same. I would think that is not flaw of noise, but STRENGTH of noise! Let's say you pile up bunch of former decades avantgarde artists and someone is there "I'll have exhibition of black square paintings" or "let's do installation of BLM signs". Just about everybody would sigh: come on man! Large number of examples could be given of something what was DONE. It carries no more value for further work. There is nothing more left to be done of certain things, but for next pure harsh noise thing, those are being done and enthusiastically listened, precisely because it has not lost its vitality. Not even after decades! There is so much more to be done. It is still reinventing itself, but not only in form of art movements that have pathological need of "new", that they can't see that the seek for "new" became pretty damn OLD.

Like the point of thinking conscious noise making as solution for progression of noise? What the hell!? I think it was already 15 years ago, when RAW SHEER LO-FI NOISE appreciation emerged precisely out of RESPONSE for that cerebral, composed, thought-out noise. I mean, you got all advanced, composed, intentional noise, refined sound, edited, "album worthy stuff"... and as response to that, you'd have people looking for emotion and feel, the obscurity and so on, which was meant not as backwards movement, but as vital progress opposed to cerebral noise.

In interview is advocated that it is good that author writing novel, could benefit from reading few books. I fully agree. Nevertheless, I am thinking that "new conscious and composed noise making" happened long ago and has been happening all these years. Like you think noise of 1985, and there ain't Purgist or Pain Jerk there. You think of 90's noise, and there ain't Umpio or Jaakko Vanhala there. You think of 2005 harsh noise, and most of those groups sound vastly different. It is not like you'd be listening Cherry Point, thinking "this is like Texas mid 90's!". Cut Up harsh noise is example how we have heard things now that could have not been made 20 years ago. I think a lot of new innovations done with cerebral noise has been less about technology, more about almost spiritual connection with sound?
I mean, I do smirk a little bit when conversation of one artist building "e-bow" comes in question and example of taking noise further, while I think most of people I know, already in 2005, when seeing someone pull out ebow, would be like "come on man!!!" Almost like how OLD time stretch became. One month it is like unheard thing, and next thing it's like autotune in pop music.


When talking of noise, that is more conscious, having direction, but then he does mention that he is not talking about repetition. Not talking about industrial, since industrial has been already done. It does make me think what it really is in industrial that is done? (One could perhaps remind of amusing remark, that back in the day, it used to be said, if you started a power violence band, it wasn't power violence. THE original power violence was something else. People staring power violence bands were already something else.) Perhaps same could be applied to industrial. The stuff I, or we may describe now as industrial, ain't the TG, SPK, stuff. It is simply small hint to lineage where it (partially) comes from. It may not be rehashing the same. It is barely return to anything. As when you look at the original industrial era, pretty much nobody admits they are part of it, nor feel they were in it. Most artists have musically or aesthetically almost nothing in common. But there is something, some underlying quality. Just like the talk about AMOK books. You can't really describe the world where guys who browse AMOK catalogue live, to guys of 2020.

Doing industrial noise in 2020 is absolutely different from originators, in same ways as artists of that era may have been different from each other. In that sense, if you make leap from TG to John Duncan and next leap, the 3rd name you mention could be.... H.Ö.H. Regardless does artists feel, intend or like it being mentioned together. If you'd put out older John Duncan tape out now, it would probably not sound "old"? It is most likely that 2015 power electronics CD would sound ancient next to that, hah.

H.Ö.H. is curious as example, since that sound could have been made in... late 60's? But compared to noise of 2020, is it regression or progression? It certainly sounds nothing like vast majority of noise of any decade.

I do find it interesting that CYESS AFXZS makes the remark about the danger of noise becoming like free jazz. New free jazz sounding the same, as the old free jazz. Despite all freedom there, the idea what constitutes as free jazz, is what it is. I can surely see that, but I also think I may come from different time and location. I never associated "noise = harsh noise". Noise where I come from, you could have Aube, Small Cruel Party and Macronympha - all together. Listening Aube now sound FUTURISTIC. Listening SCP now, and it sounds like you can't tell what decade it comes from, what country it comes from, always able to surprise. Do we qualify it as noise? Certainly not as harsh noise. Back in the day, noise seemed to be the stuff, what noise labels distributed. A lot of it may not be noisy enough now, to qualify as noise.

In other words, I absolutely liked CYESS AFXZS episode, but as opposed to moving forward - I would advocated moving in general. As he described that everything must evolved, everything must go forward, but in reality there barely is such rule. A lot of mutations dies, a lot of new ways lead nowhere. We may easily take step backwards, see what is strong and vital, what is worth preserving and recycling that will eventually reveal something. Just like the 2005 harsh noise era where many seemed to praise going back to mid 90's crunch, but actually making something entirely new.

Hi

Firstly thank you for watching the interview and secondly massive thanks for giving it such thought. I appreciate all the support. I do feel that either a few points were genuinely lost in translation or in my accent or I simply didn't communicate my position clearly enough. In an effort to help clarify here's a few responses to your comments in the sequence you presented them.

My overall stance is not a need for "The New" or to simply move forward onto the next thing. I am not saying we need to echo other creative advancements either. My overall stance is that this has not been done and creation within the genre no matter how individually creative is simply an extended branch atop a beautiful tree when  in truth I would like us to see trees on other planets.

Cut up is not new in slightest, as you well know, cut up techniques existed since tape existed.

The point about Victoria Shen was that this week alone she developed a new sonic device using magnets - it was simply labelled a "magnetic e-bow". The point is that she constantly develops devices that approach how we can sonically interact in new ways. Smirking at the value of this is hopefully a misunderstanding rather than unwarranted condescension. She does not need my defence. Please check out her unique approach to inventing sound devices and hopefully you'll see the value I was referencing.

I stated that a repetitive beat when introduced over noise is commonly then labelled industrial. This is not a personal stance. I made no comments for or against modern Industrial music or about the genre in general.

I love the music of H.Ö.H.
I stated many times I was not talking about individuals or unique individual creative evolution. Many, many current artists are doing great new things. My stance is that these individual advancements mostly rest in a template that people who listen or make noise agree on. It is this framework within which we create that is stagnant for me not the creators.

The free jazz point is a point about hardware not creativity. I put forward the argument that perhaps the instruments limit free jazz moving beyond its heyday as an analogy that perhaps our "pedals" limit the spectrum of overall noise available to us.

The only constant in reality is that we constantly DO move forward. I do not wish this to be a larger statement about concepts such as non-linear time or universal expansion so if we just assume we are talking about a metaphorical position then even if you wanted to side-step that movement is still moving forward from a previous point. We could not analyse or utilize the past without viewing it from a forward point, a point of advancement from which to learn.

Overall the majority of your comments are directed specifically at me rather than the concepts expressed - to clarify - at very small things I mentioned in conversation rather than the larger overall ideas. So if you want to dance, let's dance. In your comments there is a disregard for many of the positives in the position I am trying out and you negate them with examples from at least fifteen years ago. Twice. These responses are the framework I referred to. I respect your knowledge and also admire your belief that noise is already developing because technically I have to be included in that development but I feel within your steadfastness the openness to confront a full comprehension of the larger concept is relegated.

I can't sign off though without restating how much I revere the past too and I also have the utmost respect for your label and back catalogue. I am particularly looking forward to hearing the new Umpio release.

Again thank you for giving my comments such consideration and for taking the time to write about them. I hope some of these points clarify the things I said in the "live" interview and that you accept this rebuttal in the good-natured spirit of debate in which it is intended.

Quote from: Baglady on February 08, 2023, 04:07:03 PM
Great episode!
I disagree with alot of Stuart's examples and his take on the general state of things. Structure - obvious and less obvious/more hidden, intentional and unintentional - has always been there, hasn't it? I'd say it's something many noise artists with a background in rock, pop, metal, punk, whatever are even struggling to get away from with their noise, and not always successfully so. It's almost always there in some way - in how you time your shifts in timbre och temper, or how you begin or end your pieces.
What might be more rare is what Stuart does though; for example with his feedbacking shaker box referring to certain aspects or details in some painting or artwork which he revers and draws from. That adds alot to an already great cassette (Tapies) for me. As does his high ambitions in general.

Refreshing interview! Always nice to disagree wholeheartedly on so much. I think I like Cyess Afxzs even more now.

Thank you for finding a bit coherence - it all was off the bat. Thanks too for getting Tàpies. I'm glad the comments about it enhance it a little. I really appreciate your comments about the interview in general. If you watched the Patreon section you may already know that there are two quite different CDs due out this first quarter that were recorded last year. I look forward to hearing what you think of them.

Quote from: Cyess Afxzs on February 08, 2023, 07:50:58 PM
...it all was off the bat...

I don't think this can be ignored or forgotten and reminded of enough.  We all know it is a conversation, but when heavy and complex topics are at play, even if we've thought about them and talked about them, the moment and context is new in that moment.  Shooting the shit.  Off the cuff.  Yet, we can't wait to dissect it, argue it, contrary it, etc.  It's natural and what it's there for, but still, it's inherently flawed and messy and puts everyone in a shit position.  Add in social dynamics and personality conflicts...and what a further mess it all begs.  Not to single out Koufar, but I bet he gets into arguments over his personality just as often as over his actual ideas.  People don't even hear his ideas because their caveman self takes an adversarial position, and then he's likely arguing points that he's either not thought through, didn't word well or precisely, and that really, he doesn't even actually care about that much.  Active listening doesn't always serve us well.

Interviews are interesting things.  If the interviewee has too much time to think about something, they often come off as pretentious, calculated, unnatural, etc.  I've certainly been guilty of that.  Off the cuff and casual...arguments are created out of misunderstanding or out of nothing.  A lot of room and likeliness for error.  Passive listening serves well.

Quote from: Cyess Afxzs on February 08, 2023, 06:21:24 PM
My overall stance is not a need for "The New" or to simply move forward onto the next thing. I am not saying we need to echo other creative advancements either. My overall stance is that this has not been done and creation within the genre no matter how individually creative is simply an extended branch atop a beautiful tree when  in truth I would like us to see trees on other planets.

This may be the similar dilemma that has been discussed in wide variety of topics. Including, what is missing in current noise. If something truly is missing, it might be missing in other ways. Like, if the tree is on other planet, and it ain't tree like we know trees to be... result can be, without using metaphora: Noise that is not noise we know, we might not perceive as noise at all. And it is possible it isn't. This appears to happen a lot, when someone talks about great noise recording, and next guy is "ah, its not noise, this is glitch wave drone".
This would appear as natural process. We could not accept everything to be noise. Or whatever to be noise - if it is not. Genre itself builds the what it contains. I feel personally, that it used to be more flexible, but I also feel that it is becoming more flexible again?

Quote from: Cyess Afxzs on February 08, 2023, 06:21:24 PM
I love the music of H.Ö.H.
I stated many times I was not talking about individuals or unique individual creative evolution. Many, many current artists are doing great new things. My stance is that these individual advancements mostly rest in a template that people who listen or make noise agree on. It is this framework within which we create that is stagnant for me not the creators.

This actually clarifies it the best. It connects to the earlier talk, mentioning when going to gigs back in the day, and seeing "just music". Coil, Whitehouse etc mentioned, and everybody vastly different and excitement of getting something that doesn't follow the pre-set framework.

Well, I would guess this is simply result of progress. Result of proceeding into new things leads that behind us is now the history of artform. Something what early protagonist and those involved didn't have. If we look into birth of expression, that has almost no history. And combine it with virgin experience. I don't think this this is thing that can be replicated on individual level.
Like myself hearing first time Incapacitants. I can't really describe the feeling, nor I can return to it, nor there is anything that could produce the same feeling of having no idea what the hell is happening, and what is this. I don't think it is possible. Like I can't fuck for the first time again.

Noise has now history as genre. It greatly benefits of it, but it also sets framework what constitutes "Noise" as we know it. If something utterly different emerges, it may be something else than what is "noise". Many simply conclude term itself ain't that relevant. We can easily discuss benefits of limitless experimental sound. This can lead to conclusion that one can let go the noise, and move without restrictions of terms.

I don't need to let go, since I feel that there is so much positive angles in advancement and new found within what we know as noise - and I can be certain for a lot of guys it is even better! When letting go the individual level, one can acknowledge that many other guys have exact same virgin experience ahead and finding amazing new noise without predetermined set of mind. For them, I would think a lot of things now will appear to them exactly like tree of alien planet. It is something they never knew even existed or could have imagined.

All that said, to make noise, that is not noise we know - of course I appreciate such urge!

Thank you. That's all exactly what I was trying to get across. It's great to be able to discuss this. I really appreciate you being open minded with my slightly salty reply too. Affirms my belief that we hear noise in a similar and even biological way. The possibilities of where that takes us can be pushed and pulled and distorted beautifully beyond measure. Being open to new elements or approaches is vital to its growth.

The limits of what's accepted as noise IMO are STILL largely defined by labels. a "noise label" so to speak, if branches out to include releases that have aesthetic, thematic or hard to define but recognizable sonic qualities that make it noise while not abiding to genre norms has the power to either widen or narrow down established genre definitions. perhaps not immediately, but gradually. I think right now people running labels have a sort of "everything goes" mentality as long as it hits the previously mentioned, vague qualifiers. i'm not sure how it's been in the past, maybe 80s and 90s were free times when everything was cool as long as it was good? did the hard genre limits for noise and adjacend music become more defined in the 2000's, perhaps due to internet and online databases? perhaps

Quote from: Zeno Marx on February 08, 2023, 08:51:39 PM

Quote from: Cyess Afxzs on February 08, 2023, 07:50:58 PM
...it all was off the bat...

Not to single out Koufar, but I bet he gets into arguments over his personality just as often as over his actual ideas.  People don't even hear his ideas because their caveman self takes an adversarial position, and then he's likely arguing points that he's either not thought through, didn't word well or precisely, and that really, he doesn't even actually care about that much.

All very, VERY real. No singling out here, very much stating the facts and the truth.

Out now ahead of schedule!

Soddy of TWO ASSISTANT DEPUTY MINISTERS on WCN Podcast!

https://youtu.be/rgHxZrRbUnk
https://youtu.be/rgHxZrRbUnk
https://youtu.be/rgHxZrRbUnk

As an extra special bonus, Soddy sent me some DV tapes of spectacular live footage from his legendary Fuck My Ass concert series, featuring performances by Endo + T.A.D.M., Kosakai + Hasegawa, and The Tokyo Othodox Noise Choir, just to name a few. Digitized by WCN and available for the first time ever at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Good episode. It would be good to count how many "what was the question?" -moments there were?
Soddy's take on no-bass noise quite interesting. It appears that the crunch and fatness of sound appeals to most more. It is rare occasion to hear thin treble noise anymore. In harsh noise, or in power electronics. I mean on level on Death Squad "theological genocide" etc.

I do love the heavy and crunchy noise, but the weirdness of treble only noise (and power electronics) is almost unspoken thing in genre now?  Everybody likes it fat and heavy, and Soddys notion of total piercing nastiness is quite unusual approach these days and it is funny to listen how his own works were "mastered" heavier by the labels, making it theoretically better, but unlike artist intended.

At some point they say Mikko kicked Soddy at gig. Well... You may have heard some stories, perhaps some unacceptable horrible stories, but in this case I recall only open hand slap reached the target? May have kicked? Who knows..  Who would kick such a gentleman as Soddy? There is some video evidence of this at youtube. Tokyo 2005 live. From that, you can see man was begging for it. After gig we went to bar/restaurant of some sort and he told what happened with BDN. So long ago, story gets blurred. That video can't really show what show was. 20000V venue where a lot of noise shows used to be, was LOUD AS FUCK. If one wanted to damage ears, multiple noise shows there and I'd think will do some permanent damage.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 14, 2023, 08:01:41 AM
At some point they say Mikko kicked Soddy at gig.

I believe he said Mikawa, not Mikko, as they were talking about Incaps shows. Perhaps I can share that the encounter with Mikko (of which no recollection can be retained!) is briefly mentioned in the bonus episode. I'm thinking I might contact the marketing arm of the local tourism authority. They can make up some posters. Come to Japan! Slap Soddy in the face!

You laugh but I've seen it on the menu of at least one maid cafe. You race the server to skull a pint of beer- the server gets a thimble sized cup. If you win you get to snap a little momento; if you lose, SLAP! I recall one particular perv kept going up for the righteous slaps, clearly in no hurry to drain the glass.

And who wouldn't pay to see Mikko in a maid outfit?

Ah, well, says so fast caught as if it was that, well.. I recall Robochanman was also hands around your throat at that gig, haha.. 

My apologies, the kicking and choking is strictly the privilege of the locals. Come for the slaps, stay for the strangulation. Man these ads just write themselves.

I'd meant to post something more coherent (or at least, more properly convoluted!) on some of what Mr CYESS AFXZS had to say, before getting side-tracked by the subsequent subcoherent ramblings of a certain sorry sod (technically recorded over a month ago).

For me, the one moment that starts the conversation is this idea that noise needs to be destroyed before it can move forward (or be reborn shall we say), through perhaps something like un-noise. This immediately reminded me of a comment Hiroshige made in an old Bananafish interview, cautioning that this is a paraphrase of a translation by David Hopkins from an interview taking place over 25 years ago: that an almighty mass of disorganized sound is prerequisite to going beyond music and noise [italics theirs- translators? publishers?]. That comment has been bugging the hell out of me ever since. How does producing an almighty mass of disorganized sound go "beyond" noise? And relates back to an old joke I used to trot out on the subject, in reviews and discussion; that no matter what you may try to do with noise, the results are always the same: more noise. Which might perhaps take a would-be destroyer in death spirals around jliat territory, where noise in its purest conception is the limit [empahasis mine].

I was then reminded of Hiroshige's solo work, which is certainly much more structured, presented in a complete package with lyric book containing what I'd call almost classic verse  (not myself being anywhere near versed enough in Japanese poetry to offer any but the vaguest suggestions along these lines, but shall we say approaching something like spiritual-cum-existential Morita Doji esque lines, I digress). And clearly there was an impact there, at least among the Japanese contingent, when you'd have Monde Bruits covering (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc5QlNiD6IY&t=0s) one of the better cuts on the first of these albums. (There were only about three albums before he began to edge more into, albeit noise-y, rock 'n roll territory. My fave track still gets plenty play here, though this youtube clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=806fMAO5LI4&t=1642s) grossly curtails all the nuance.)

I trot out Hiroshige and Hijokaidan here as symbols of the some of the earliest attempts at bringing noise to its most clinically devastating (do check out the above indicated tracks at appropriate levels, and call your audiologist in the morning). Could the Japanese contingent have been having the same conversation we are now, back in the late 70s?

Now this idea of necessary destruction in the service of moving things forward is I think nicely supported in the contention that a would be destroyer needs to know the history. That is, needs to know the contours of what it is they are actively seeking to destroy. One might otherwise be missing the mark by quite the margin without even realizing it. We all watch movies. We know what happens when they think they got the bad guy but the actual dying breath is not shown. Cue the piercing violins.

One thing that I think needs to be emphasized, and here I will refer back to an old Ligotti quote from an interview bearing the same title: it's all about personal pathology. It may be harder than we think to "bring the whole thing forward" through individual re-framings, creations, destructions, but possibly that is all we will ever have. Reframings creations destructions on a strictly personal level. (Let this not be interpreted necessarily as resistance to the idea of at least trying. All for that, here! But.) I was in conversation very recently with a person who I feel is absolutely pushing things "forward", and who is absolutely challenging ideas of what might constitute listenable (never mind good) sound and music. And through this came a resistance to the idea of potentially assigning a sense of perceptual "movement" to one element (or cluster of elements) in a very atomised world of individual persons working through their personal pathologies and passions. Some may wish to ride the wall, others may choose to be NO PART OF IT. What can perhaps be seen as a serious and debilitating issue can as easily be perceived of as a strength (leaving out the tinnitus!), where any sense of a frame or frame within which to work is always fraying and cracking as it comes into contact, for however long, with other supposed frames, such as how Soddy briefly etched in his WCN episode, on the semi-wave-like convergence/dis-convergence of more classically minded harshnoise purveyors with the more gleefully anti elements in playful pursuit of private personal pathologies and passions.

Perhaps the only thing to be wary of is falling into a syntactic trap, wherein perceptions of music-sound-art are waylaid by overtly didactic attempts to frame it in words (which is all we'll ever have. sorry!). Trying (and failing) to locate a similar discussion on this forum from some years back, I did find vaguely tangential comments stuck in the middle of a subreadable borbeto commentary (https://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=10.msg5149#msg5149)

Quotethat truly great noise is beyond words, and would only be diminished by words of any coherent form in the same way the infinite is diminished by any attempt to re-present in terms comprehensible to the syntax of subject-verb agreement

So going back to Hijokaidan and Hiroshige, perhaps the only way to go beyond music and noise is to stop talking about it. To stop pretending that we are making any sense whatsoever. And that, I'm afraid, is an IT OF which I'd like to be NO PART.

Glad I could convolute that up.

About destroying noise... I think The Rita has come close to that, can't name the release/s from the top of my head, but there are speech based noise that he just distorts so hard that it almost becomes silence. All that is left is small crumbs and crackles, to my ears that is going beyond noise, destroying it. It is of course just one artist, so no real movement in noise maybe.

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on February 16, 2023, 06:03:46 AM
Now this idea of necessary destruction in the service of moving things forward is I think nicely supported in the contention that a would be destroyer needs to know the history.

For me, re-inventing what noise and doing things differently seems to be tightly connected to not only the sound itself and making of noise, but where, how, to whom it is directed to. If to anyone. Usually it is, at least unconsciously. For me, the criticism found in that episode seemed to mostly apply to lets say scenario such as:
Guy with harsh noise t-shirt, recording harsh noise with known harsh noise making equipment, for harsh noise label, who caters already existing harsh noise audience, and distribute to them via existing harsh noise network. Including harsh noise gigs and fests
You can look that thing also in positive light. Harsh noise sound for harsh noise people! But you can also understand why it can become limiting for noise, and some call for doing it somehow differently.

That was different situation from the former years, when it could have been vastly different routine of making, publishing, distributing and even experiencing. Very different from some weirdo who went to record store and picked up album based on name or cover, with no idea what to really expect. People who went to punk or jazz show, and happened to catch other band doing noise set without any idea what that was, but getting excited.

I am all for the network. The obsessed jerks who know what they like and how to get it. No problem. That said, I also advocate taking it further. It may spawn the seed for new noise makers OR lead to different new approaches for the old artists who have now also other kind of audience than the "same".  I don't think there is really need of destruction really, as these things can perfectly fine co-exists, and certainly WILL exist, regardless of someone intentions. Just to acknowledge boundaries that has emerged, and little effort to break free from them. That can be enough for me, personally.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 17, 2023, 06:32:28 PM
You can look that thing also in positive light. Harsh noise sound for harsh noise people! But you can also understand why it can become limiting for noise, and some call for doing it somehow differently.

That reminds me of a time Gomi (very politely) declined to play a noise show because, he said, he was not interested in playing for a noise crowd, not interested in doing noise for noise people, though I'm probably badly paraphrasing words received a good couple decades past, delivered in a language some distance from the first. (The words came with a nice stack of spanking hot AMP tapes, perhaps by way of apology, so a net plus from my perspective!) A year or so later I noticed Jerk-sama was sharing the bill with a bunch of hardcore bands, so not exactly outside the comfort zone but at least free of perceptibly noise-native confines. I think anyone who's ever played outside their immediate circle of perceivedly like-minded perv-veyors can get that, even if the main thing to be got is little more than a sense of freedom from feeling (self(?)) pressured to "perform" to a certain quality standard (or at least to a certain standard), and perhaps from there a more ready willingness to take more risks. Now, given the path Gomi's been on lately, I don't know that I'd mind an indulgence in more risk averse ventures, but that's just me (okay, not just me, of that much I think I can safely say). Much more recently I was approached by one of the hotter new harshers and asked to cough up materials for a sort of multi-partied collab thing conceived, if I've got this right, as an effort to get outside the comfort zone, or perhaps to escape a perceived danger of repeating themselves, essentially by pushing outward.

As far as the latter fear, I can't see any problem with tackling that by stubbornly toiling away in the same general direction, convinced that at some point glimmers of a way forward will emerge. I got that to an extent in some The Rita's comments on the podcast, where he seems to acknowledge potential limitations on the current path but that said path was by no means felt to have been exhausted of its potential. Perhaps to say, pushing inward rather than outward.

But which, then, is the path of least resistance?

The Slacking episode is excellent. I haven't heard the records before but I am definitely going to check them out after this interview. Interesting stuff in the extra material too.

QuoteGood episode. It would be good to count how many "what was the question?" -moments there were?

drinking game!

Out now - Jim Lerario of SLACKING on WCN Podcast:

https://youtu.be/sFSxgIn8w2I
https://youtu.be/sFSxgIn8w2I
https://youtu.be/sFSxgIn8w2I

In the Patreon exclusive EXT., we carry on the conversation for another 40 minutes in a more spontaneous and way, opening up about a wide range of topics:

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

At one point there is talk about "psychedelic noise" and I think that discussion quickly goes into lack of definition, lack of terminology. I don't have enough experiences with Slacking material, and perhaps eventually will get more. So I don't really know how psychedelic his works in particular would feel.

Question seems interesting in noise, as what is really "psychedelic" in noise? I think the word gets usually thrown into, when there are elements we know of psychedelic music. Say, echo, delay, moog swirls, long almost hallusogenic properties in track durations where you can sink into.  As opposed to fast, short, brutal, in-your-face harshness.

However, it feels little odd term in noise, where most of stuff may have quality of expansion of consciousness, vibrate the reality, trigger non-ordinary mental states. Being unlike pop track, create realm of something else that has ability to transform known reality into.. some sort of good or bad trip?

In this case, it feels as if Slacking ain't at all the kind of "in tradition of psychedelic music". Like you can file CCCC into lineage of that. Early stages especially. It is still moog synth, bass, swirling electronics, all drenched into otherwordly echo that creates this illusion of something that is not really there. Small room or tiny speaker and result is still massive distant echoing realm as if it was some other dimension.

In case of noise, you could still ask would a lot of noise be "psychedelic". Not in terms of having quality that remind psychedelic music of early 70's, but taking it vastly further and not really caring what old psychedelic music was about. Also including the possibility of sheer horrors of bad trip. Unexplainable, horrid noise, hah...

I see there isn't really even topic for psychedelic noise on SI forum! Could be. As I have really no idea how most people see that word. Do they associate with psychedelic subculture of the 1960/70s, with its aesthetics and sonic qualities or perhaps really to the core of psychedelic experience, in mind manifesting something, sound evoking or documenting the unused potentials of the human mind. That could be also something unlike recycling late 60's visuals and nostagia?

Depending if there is discussion about this, it could be splitted into topic of its own.

OUT NOW ON WCN TV! Recent Release Reviews

On this episode, I release a stack of recent releases from DREW DANIEL +JOHN WIESE, WHITE GOLD, STEWART SKINNER, MAX JULIAN EASTMAN, ATTIC SHRINES, ZALHIETZLI, ARTHUR CANTERBURY, and HELMER

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on February 16, 2023, 06:03:46 AM
Now this idea of necessary destruction in the service of moving things forward is I think nicely supported in the contention that a would be destroyer needs to know the history. That is, needs to know the contours of what it is they are actively seeking to destroy. One might otherwise be missing the mark by quite the margin without even realizing it.

Made me think of this part of Yoshihide Otomo interview on red bull music academy: https://youtu.be/rdpAFlyqmm4?t=4101 (https://youtu.be/rdpAFlyqmm4?t=4101)

"Talking about noise music [...] I assume wrongly conveyed information was part of the reason. All of my generation who play noise are influenced by rock music. When we listen to rock we had few chances to see real American or British bands playing. We all listened to them through records. Sitting in front of speakers and listened to them. We all thought rock was extremely loud. [...] Rock is radical and loud and the players move violently like a storm on stage. Those images alone were amplified in our brain. We saw on TV, Jimi Hendrix smashing his guitar, The Who's breaking their guitars, we believed it was so cool! This part of our memory was swelled. Then we got an amplifier for our guitars and went to a club. A club in Japan is so small compared to in US or Europe. Even though they used Fender Twin Reverb or Roland Jazz Chorus 120. So when they played turning its volume to the max, the sound was so loud that feedback occurred. That maybe because I think we extremely misunderstood rock or free jazz. Then we imagined rock and jazz must be very very loud. [...] We composed music without right information, and in addition there were extreme misunderstandings. I imagine Japanese noise music was probably born by that biased information."

OUT NOW - Luke Tandy of BEING / Skeleton Dust Records on WCN Podcast!

https://youtu.be/NKDTO3K3HYw
https://youtu.be/NKDTO3K3HYw
https://youtu.be/NKDTO3K3HYw

Check out the EXT. segments on Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

At some point, should really look into patreon system what its all about, since would have been really interested in Luke's thoughts about distributing questionable noise in the store! I guess even talking about it in open youtube feels a bit risky, haha.


Good episode and also nice to see forums talked in such a positive way. Like Oskar says, there seems to be kind of attitude that looks down on forums. I suppose some artists or people like the detachment that social media offers? Feeling as if they are not really part of anything. Not "scene" or "that kind of people" (referring to any type they feel they have nothing to do with). Just drop picture into their "own" social media account and that's that. They have their own followers there and actively taking part in forum discussion is quite another thing.

I do get it, most of them time. I would say every forum has some kind of "reputation". Whatever genre of music, or culture it is. That reputation barely does justice for most of forums. It would merely require little resilience to live with some sorts of nuisance. Couple knuckleheads bickering about conspiracy theory or daily politics could be something you just skip over, and continue talking about something else. Many seem to feel just seeing couple messages like that and forum is ruined. haha... Even if there would be vastly more talk about interesting things, the tiny negative experience appears to weight vastly more on the scale.

It is also possible that especially youngsters do not remember how vital forums were. If you'd hope to get people to shows 15 years ago, where you'd be telling about it? If you wanted to find out discography of some obscure power electronics project, there was no discogs out there, but group of collector nerds collecting information on forums. Days of "lets try to list all Con-Dom releases" and you'd be finding out there exists titled you never heard of. This type of activity is still very much possible. How would you use instagram, twitter, facebook or whatever, to build something like "THE BEST OF G.R.O.S.S.", "Lust Vessel overview", "Endorphine Factory appreciation", and so on.. Still now, any day, I would certainly like to read topic of complete album discography reviewed by actual noise listeners. See what I should be checking out, or what album I should pull out from shelves after many many years of not listening it.

That, opposed to bombarded with spam consisting mostly new bandcamp links.

Luke talks about how physical records have completely changed their nature, compared to past. They are bought, used and collected with very different motivation than in past. Even if it applies more in mainstream music, I would say it also applies to noise to some level. When seeing how this approach for music and physical media has changed, I also think it applies to use of forums. One can easily admit forums are not NEEDED in same was as they were for example 20 years ago. There are lots of easy alternatives to use instead. However, like physical noise media has benefits that "spotify" can't replicate, forums may not be the same as before, but they have some qualities what make them good. Like examples above. Despite slowness, despite little bit more clumsy interface, forums may be crucial and importance may not be fully seen unless we see how things are without them.

Can't expect masses of spotify users to return from easy streaming back to waiting tape to show up. Domination of addictive, instantly rewarding and visual heavy social media is the same. Masses of people probably won't return to old style forums, but there must be still thousands of people reading even SI! Registered active users loggin in on weekly or monthly basis is several hundreds. Amount of lurkers is vastly bigger.


Thing what Oskar talks about documenting the touring noise, would be excellent. I have mentioned this to others, like Noisextra crew too. Conelly certainly has ton of experience of endless tours. As they have framed podcast to be mostly 90's and older, I guess that type of noise touring is the early 2000's thing. I remember first hearing about guys playing several weeks, even month(s) non stop noise tour, basement show after basement show, and thinking what the hell! Over here, at the time, noise show would be anomaly. Like once a year, special gathering. Idea of noise tour of that length, on such settings, seemed unreal. I think that phenomena is still largely undocumented? At least I don't think I have ever read extensive stories about it. I recall talking about it with american harsh noise artists who said "well.. driving 5 hours and then playing in someones livingroom for 4 stoned guys ain't that interesting". haha... I would say as a phenomena, it is worth to look into how one could create "memoirs of the noise travellers" episode for podcast. I'd listen that! Or read, if it was on paper.

Derailing a topic a bit... I think youngsters are used to their own social bubbles, so they are almost oblivious to content that isn't by their guidelines and taste. Good old thick skin is a rare breed, but as an old school internet dweller, it's impenetrable by now. That's why people maybe shun away from forums? Getting exposed to uncomfortable ideas, at the cost of greater good is always good.

And for touring memoirs podcasts/zines, I would love that. Just to even hear stories from single gigs too, there's tons of great folklore that should be shared. There's never too little of anecdotes, overall bizarreness and impossible situations when it comes to playing, half of promised amplification etc.

I'm not as "active" on the forums (this and Scream & Writhe) as I'd like to be, but I sure do appreciate everyone who is and I lurk on them constantly. I often see things we talked about on the podcast discussed here and wish to put my two-cents in. I actually recorded a Noise On The Run episode I intended to publish  where I respond to some of the things brought up in this thread, but I think it was a bit too rambling so I'll find a better way to do that at some point. F.A.F. - I do encourage you to check out the stuff on the patreon because it's often stuff that's not for everyone, but I'll send you the link to this week's EXT. episode, because F.A. came up specifically.

A few years back, I almost did a recollection essay on the first proper tour I went on as PTM with Skin Graft, Koufar and Winters In Osaka. It was short, only 5 shows, but every night was kind of ridiculous. Breaking shit, wondering around Philly with Robert and Arthur of Endless Humiliation, Staying at the Red Light District house for 2 days because our Connecticut show got cancelled, people taking speed at 3am while chain smoking multiple packs of cigarettes, etc. The shows themselves were good, but it's the other stuff that really can make a tour a true experience.

Quote from: PTM Jim on March 09, 2023, 05:27:05 PM
A few years back, I almost did a recollection essay on the first proper tour I went on as PTM with Skin Graft, Koufar and Winters In Osaka. It was short, only 5 shows, but every night was kind of ridiculous. Breaking shit, wondering around Philly with Robert and Arthur of Endless Humiliation, Staying at the Red Light District house for 2 days because our Connecticut show got cancelled, people taking speed at 3am while chain smoking multiple packs of cigarettes, etc. The shows themselves were good, but it's the other stuff that really can make a tour a true experience.

was that the tour where PTM played something like 8 minutes across all 5 shows?

Quote from: andy vomit on March 09, 2023, 05:49:27 PM
was that the tour where PTM played something like 8 minutes across all 5 shows?

HAHA!
that is another thing, that back in the day, I had never seen "short noise show". I always thought it would be like what real bands play. Hearing live album of noise band, seeing Heavy Electronics fest, hearing Con-Dom live shows, CCCC live albums and so on. Some anomalies, like Masonna. Just about everybody else seemed to play "full length" gigs. It would be curious to know when and where the short couple minute noise live shows became usual routine? Even that dominating, that idea of noise show being kind of "show of industrial tradition", 30-45 mins with video backdrop and whatever, would become anomaly.

I would assume that era, when bands mostly releases C-60 tapes and era when suddenly just about everybody is doing C-10 and C-20 may correlate a bit with gig lengths too?

Quote from: WCN on March 09, 2023, 02:57:42 PM
F.A.F. - I do encourage you to check out the stuff on the patreon because it's often stuff that's not for everyone, but I'll send you the link to this week's EXT. episode, because F.A. came up specifically.

Seeing this piece, it comes out in... lets say positive light!

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 09, 2023, 09:35:59 AM
I do get it, most of them time. I would say every forum has some kind of "reputation". Whatever genre of music, or culture it is. That reputation barely does justice for most of forums. It would merely require little resilience to live with some sorts of nuisance. Couple knuckleheads bickering about conspiracy theory or daily politics could be something you just skip over, and continue talking about something else. Many seem to feel just seeing couple messages like that and forum is ruined. haha... Even if there would be vastly more talk about interesting things, the tiny negative experience appears to weight vastly more on the scale.

Quote from: MT on March 09, 2023, 09:59:09 AM
I think youngsters are used to their own social bubbles, so they are almost oblivious to content that isn't by their guidelines and taste. Good old thick skin is a rare breed, but as an old school internet dweller, it's impenetrable by now. That's why people maybe shun away from forums? Getting exposed to uncomfortable ideas

sure seems to be the case.  even when a forum has the block feature enabled so they don't have to see the users they don't like, they get bothered by it.  a couple of posts per day have the power to jade it all.  It's weird.  Does huddling in said social bubbles ultimately make someone that sensitive and that easily affected?  Immunity lost?

Quote from: andy vomit on March 09, 2023, 05:49:27 PM

was that the tour where PTM played something like 8 minutes across all 5 shows?

Ha. It might have been more like 12 minutes for all 5, but yeah. I have it all recorded except for one of the sets and they clock in at 9 minutes. Back in the days of just breaking everything, then attacking the audience, end.
This is what I mean by saying I don't make noise anymore. Pure uncalculated destruction.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 09, 2023, 06:18:53 PM

HAHA!
that is another thing, that back in the day, I had never seen "short noise show". I always thought it would be like what real bands play. Hearing live album of noise band, seeing Heavy Electronics fest, hearing Con-Dom live shows, CCCC live albums and so on. Some anomalies, like Masonna. Just about everybody else seemed to play "full length" gigs. It would be curious to know when and where the short couple minute noise live shows became usual routine? Even that dominating, that idea of noise show being kind of "show of industrial tradition", 30-45 mins with video backdrop and whatever, would become anomaly.

I would assume that era, when bands mostly releases C-60 tapes and era when suddenly just about everybody is doing C-10 and C-20 may correlate a bit with gig lengths too?

I feel like super short sets are still pretty rare. I would say most are around the 10 minute mark, with touring acts playing a little longer, and 90s guys will do the very long ones because I think that is what they have always been used to. It also depends on WHAT you are playing. I can't imagine Skin Crime playing a 5 minute set, while I also can't imagine Ahlz playing more then 10 minutes.

I definitely think the tape length era of going from C40-60s to the stunted C10-20 has a lot to do with that. I never really put two and two together, but there must be some correlation.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 09, 2023, 09:35:59 AMLike Oskar says, there seems to be kind of attitude that looks down on forums. I suppose some artists or people like the detachment that social media offers? Feeling as if they are not really part of anything. Not "scene" or "that kind of people" (referring to any type they feel they have nothing to do with). Just drop picture into their "own" social media account and that's that. They have their own followers there and actively taking part in forum discussion is quite another thing.

I often wondered why some of the bigger names in the noise/PE/industrial scene dont communicate with people via forums, or they do early on in their career, but once a certain level of recognition is reached they just revert to posting releases via social media.

Is it regarded as a faux pas to still lurk amongst the peasant's?

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 09, 2023, 06:18:53 PM
HAHA!
that is another thing, that back in the day, I had never seen "short noise show". I always thought it would be like what real bands play. Hearing live album of noise band, seeing Heavy Electronics fest, hearing Con-Dom live shows, CCCC live albums and so on. Some anomalies, like Masonna. Just about everybody else seemed to play "full length" gigs. It would be curious to know when and where the short couple minute noise live shows became usual routine? Even that dominating, that idea of noise show being kind of "show of industrial tradition", 30-45 mins with video backdrop and whatever, would become anomaly.

I would assume that era, when bands mostly releases C-60 tapes and era when suddenly just about everybody is doing C-10 and C-20 may correlate a bit with gig lengths too?

That's an interesting point and something I've never really thought of either. Around here, I think its an unspoken rule that you don't exceed 15 or 20 minute live performance... you could, but it doesn't really happen that often. There are a few reasons for this. It's almost exclusively basement shows. I've never seen any noise on stage in a proper venue in my city. So then there's the social aspect of hanging out and slamming beers with friends who probably also have short attention spans. Also most projects here are full blown harsh noise assault which feeds into the quick and dirty mindset. Long, brooding PE/Industrial sets just don't really happen here as much as I'd like. Even my own performances are tailored to be a bit shorter simply due to the environment. No complaints just telling it like it is. I'm just glad shit is happening.

I would be much more open to longer sets if shows started much earlier. i'd be up for even morning and afternoon. Things need to be pretty raging to watch a 45+ min set around midnight.

Which can also tie in to talking about tours. it is kind of a bummer to be so pushed for time when by the time the gig ends, you are pretty much looking at getting to the next town.

Quote from: Leewar on March 09, 2023, 07:23:32 PM

I often wondered why some of the bigger names in the noise/PE/industrial scene dont communicate with people via forums, or they do early on in their career, but once a certain level of recognition is reached they just revert to posting releases via social media.

Is it regarded as a faux pas to still lurk amongst the peasant's?

This is  also an important step for a lot of artists wanting to be bigger names. They're still lurking, just from hidden accounts. Hi guys!

Quote from: Leewar on March 09, 2023, 07:23:32 PM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 09, 2023, 09:35:59 AMLike Oskar says, there seems to be kind of attitude that looks down on forums. I suppose some artists or people like the detachment that social media offers? Feeling as if they are not really part of anything. Not "scene" or "that kind of people" (referring to any type they feel they have nothing to do with). Just drop picture into their "own" social media account and that's that. They have their own followers there and actively taking part in forum discussion is quite another thing.

I often wondered why some of the bigger names in the noise/PE/industrial scene dont communicate with people via forums, or they do early on in their career, but once a certain level of recognition is reached they just revert to posting releases via social media.

Is it regarded as a faux pas to still lurk amongst the peasant's?

Little bit of derailing WCN topic here, but in case live gig talk or forum talk continues, I'll split into various topics.

I think amount of "bigger names" is so small, and the "genre" operates in very specific time that we can't really estimate reasons why person would not use forums. It may be tempting to assume this suggestion mentioned above has some role, but it might be just that back in the day, when artists was lesser known, forums were all we had.  Even bigger labels and artists may have posted on forum as that was how internet worked for many people. Getting word out there by means that are available. Perhaps discuss a little with others.

Fast forwards 15-20 years, and artists who may have become "big" meanwhile, also live in entirely different world where using forum may not be something he actively even thinks of. Its probably not thinking is it cool or is it faux pas. I guess research shows that about 95% of internet browsing happens these days with phone. One can be sure that anything that is not "app", is not first thing what comes to mind. You got friends at message app, you got bunch of public social media, you got bandcamp, youtube and whatever apps to load your stuff into and send notifications of new stuff.  

Forums are now way more like magazine. For people who make conscious decision to participate (buying magazine, joining forum). Due knowing this particular format of communication is better than something else. Or if not better, just different, and it has its benefits.

Like thinking, what's role of noise zine printed 30 copies? Why big names of noise are not in minizines? Or putting them out? This recent Finnish publication, Noise Space 'zine, I got like 6 guys in Finland who talked to me about it, liking reading it. How can zine of 30 copies have such impact, while facebook post seen by 30 guys would probably be obsolete? It is different thing, different impact and for different purpose.

But like Oskar comments above, lots of guys are lurkers. See something like NOISE NOW PLAYING group in facebook. Is it couple thousand members, and how many are active in posting? Quite small %. Many have mentioned to me that writing in english is obstacle. Plus some are not really "writers". They are 100% into noise and want to follow news and recommendations, but just don't feel like posting on public. That's why SI is open forum. It doesn't have hidden sections and you do not need to logged in to read it. Lurkers welcomed!

I agree that one of the recent episodes where Luke Tandy from Skeleton Dust was interviewed is a pleasant listening. By the way, Heat signature is a band project that I have recently become very fond of.

Regarding the discussion about forums, I can see from my own analysis and empirical experience that there seem to be different audiences that have different approaches to the different platforms. It is very much a matter of cultural differences, and I notice that some of the 'older generation' are only on certain other social platforms (FB) - while the even younger generation is on Instagram.
From my own experience, I think Instagram and the like are the worst platforms because people are always writing around the clock, and have thus obtained help from individuals who work there to answer people's comments. I appreciate people's inquisitiveness, but as a working person, it can be difficult to find the time to answer 24 hours á day.

However, I think it's important for labels to have a long-term view of their work, namely preservation for eternity. Therefore, I have started working on a book where I interview some artists I have collaborations with. I think it is good that there are fanzines, but however, books in hardcover are needed for a more long-term thinking.

One can probably also make distinctions between the audience that focused is on purely collecting and the few who are actually interested in doing long tours, and perhaps a hybrid of the two making up even a smaller percentage. It is worth keeping in mind that the older you get - the more responsibilities to possible external factors such as work and family. Thus, you don't have too much time to spend on the road or online to be social, but spend all your time sending orders and creating new releases/plankton fishing instead.

I myself had an idea of creating a forum that is only for individuals who have paid a certain amount of money to not make it as public. However, we now have started working on a forum that will be public, and this is not to compete with anyone else - but rather as a complement. Think both this forum and Scream & Writhe are good forums, but the more niches platforms there are out there - the better. This does not preclude stopping using another forum, but it is more about being able to capture different individuals from different cultural zones/tastes.

[Grumpy middle aged man mode: on] I'm personally hardly on any social media anymore. I vastly prefer the forum format since it, at least every now and then, provides actual information and leads to some real discussion instead of selfabsorbed and navelgazing "look at me"-posts that get a few (or many, who cares...?) likes and heart-emojis. Internet forums and hearsay from people in the scene as well as a few physical magazines on occasion and some blogs and news letters from labels and distros are my main sources for news and new acts to check out. Maybe it's a generational thing, but social media to me is just an endless streams of, well, nothing. Utterly pointless.

Out now! Kenny Sanderson of FACIALMESS / LIKE WEEDS on WCN Podcast!

https://youtu.be/9PfVkDyogSs
https://youtu.be/9PfVkDyogSs
https://youtu.be/9PfVkDyogSs

Good one!

I am kind of surprised that still today there ain't reissue of early Facialmess stuff? For me that early stuff that is busy and heavy and wild noise is far more interesting than the later super-cut-up sound. Like they talk about the shift in approach. Last year I listened some of these tapes on his own label and they are such a greatly flowing harsh noise and c-cassettes sound clear and sharp.

I think he talks about... Freak Animal #8 or 9? In reality, that is actually the FIRST Freak Animal zine. All issues before that was called Nyktofobia, and when Nykto-tapes transformed into Freak Animal Records in 1994, I just changed zine name and language, but kept the numbering running. Nyktofobia #7 was already in English, but early 95 published #8 had Bizarre Uproar, G-Hörsturz, Oral Climax, Psychotic Noise, Necrose.. #9 had Hermit and Agoraphobic Nosebleed and many more.  FA #10 is almost like another zine, almost like new start that didn't last that many issues.

One thing I would have hoped to hear is how the Tokyo noise SHOPS are doing. Back in the day, mr. Facialmess wrote me telling that FA stuff is available pretty much in every Japanese record store. You walk in shop and find way more FA stuff than most others. Japan is strange in a way, that they have vastly different leaning than many other countries. Old industrial seemed big in times when very few cared. Obscure things like Stabat Mors stuff seemed everywhere and guys told its really liked in Japan. Pricing used to that new items are expensive, 2nd hand stuff is cheap. I don't know how it is now, but generally seemed like Japanese customer valued high quality mint item, and any little flaw in disc or cover, and it would be cheap. Despite it wouldn't have any effect on listening. Late 90's, early 00's there was still multiple noise stores. Or stores you associate to carry a lot of it. Still now, you got the biggest record store chains like Disk Union, who'll have big section for noise, I think! NEdS, Art Into Life, Forever, and such still going. It would have been great to hear about this phenomena as "experimental music stores" or stores with even section dedicated to it is so rare in world. I guess still today, you can find Freak Animal stuff unusually easy from Tokyo, compared to a lot of other noise that is never sold there? I think the "industrial" side of things was always bigger, and even at the peak of USA new wave of noise around 2005'ish, you didn't see pretty much any of that stuff in Japanese stores. Way more leaning to Organum, Jackman, TNB, NWW, MB, Whitehouse, Stabat Mors, Tesco etc etc and of course the Japanese stuff. Haven't been in Japan for long long time, so would be nice to hear, how is the physical noise culture doing besides seemingly flourishing live scene what seems to be almost unacknowledged and largely undocumented outside Japan.

Been hoping to get done article about new Japanese noise and current live scene, but has not progressed much.. lets see if it is doable. Stories I hear, and enthusiasm there is with creators seem to be high, and like Facialmess says, some of these best artists are indeed live -focused. Recordings are not phenomenal, but live shows praised.

Out now! Henry Mallard of MALLARD THEORY on WCN Podcast!
https://youtu.be/oNcPQsNqJc0
https://youtu.be/oNcPQsNqJc0
https://youtu.be/oNcPQsNqJc0

See the full content of this episode in the EXT. segment on Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

This is a wild one.

Also unusual name dropping when all these... Leigh Stench, Sonic Disorder and that type of things get acknowledged. It is funny thing, that many probably would pay big bucks to hear Gerogerigegege put out shitnoise, but would not waste another thought for something such as Sonic Disorder. Out of pro noise labels, I guess it was indeed RRR who put his money into releasing couple split 7"s.
One of the absolute masterpieces being Les Disques Bruitistes label: Sonic Disorder – Travelers' Companion Volume III LP.  If it was put out as Gerogerigegege, probably three digit prices was paid for this madness.  In a way it is good that the real deal shit noise stays firmly in realms of shit - being positive remark in this case. It is also nice when there are these existing links that display that between the high class academic art, harsh noise underground and juvenile weirdo shitnoise, there ain't THAT huge distance. Henry mentions the "meme HWN haha", which was so amusingly described, but I'd suppose most of the earlier shitnoise was nothing like HNW, perhaps almost opposite. Totally unpredictable and could surprise any moment. Someone should indeed put together article about wading waist deep in shitnoise underground. Recommend for less adventurous what Earwigs, Nutscreamer, Sonic Disorder, or such are the absolute best....  As there are indeed such a priceless jewels among the waste.

It is sort of amusing segment where Oskar and Henry are talking about the blossoming Pittsburgh noise scene. Impression that so much is happening and big gigs and stuff happens all the time. Then Henry mentions booking gig with huge amount of bands and only 3 paying audience members show up. This is something I always wondered, how can it be. City of millions of people, and nobody cares? First gig I ever organized, was hc-punk gig in small town consisting 35,000 inhabitants. Youth house gig could still pull.. 50? 100? Something like that. Just putting few posters and flyers around. Of course talking of mid 90's so world was hugely different. Couple years later Freak Animal fest pulled like 100 people. In times when nobody knew shit. Line-up of (then) unknow fairly new noise by bands who had mostly not released anything (strom.ec, pain nail,..) or never really sold in Finland. Since then, I can't imagine there would have been single noise show in Finland, where "3 people" show up. Anything that has happened here, seems to have some audience. No matter what city or line-up, there must be dozen(s) at least. Why? Don't know. Even less I understand how cities with millions of people would have audience of 5!

That ain't too bad, though.
I remember talking with Koji Tano when seeing him on Japanese tour and talk was what was the first noise show he got to see. Its almost 20 years ago, so can't remember the exact date, nor exact line up, but as he lived outside Tokyo, he had to travel to see the first noise gig. Merzbow headliner and just about every big Japanese name on the bill. I recall like 5 major names you'd kill to see now. He mentioned there were 6 people in audience, including him. Six! what the fuck!

Like Oskar says on this podcast, that appearance of blossoming Pittsburgh scene is inspiration, regardless of what it really is. When you list the names who are roughly around the region, think about what all gigs been happening, what people/labels been putting out, and the inspiration can be huge. It is also curious to think, IF MSBR would have visited noise gig with 500 people, would it have changed what MSBR Records did? Would it appear to make sense to make 20 copies obscure hand made art objects, if impression was there was huge demand and actual sales happening? Artform of noise, may have to thank the "lack of success", for the abnormal forms noise has taken. Of course there is probably longer story why and how there was those MSBR special packages, but eventually there was no more. I would still suppose that surrounding reality has some influence on it, and the "no demand noise" exists and manifests itself in quite curious ways that some of the... ehm... "pro-noise" won't.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 21, 2023, 09:11:00 AM. Even less I understand how cities with millions of people would have audience of 5!

Talking out of my ass, as usual, but something to do with economies of scale I'd wager. And the fragmentation of the "big city" as a macrocosm of a larger nation state, say, with a target at such a disparate spread that it would be difficult to hit without access to channels that are likely beyond the means of most. /asstalk

edit
things would (likely) be somewhat different now (maybe!)

One theory has always been, that in big cities, there is so much to do compared to small cities, that noise or punk gig is unlikely priority. Indeed, if one was in tokyo right now, would the guy with shaker and distortion pedal rate as absolute top-1 to see tonight? .. Maybe!

In same way creating good own UG music was less likely in big city if you look % of population. Meaning that in past, in city you got the group of other weirdos, you got bars, gigs, record stores... A lot to do. Go to small town and you got NOTHING. So creation of your own stuff was something you could focus. With people who likely was into it as you asked them to join band, not that they would have joined if there was "better things to do".
The focus on what you had, as opposed to endless supply of records found in good stores. After internet swallowed everything and brought it to everywhere, dynamic may be different.

Still I would assume, despite you have the entire internet in your hand, you may want something more, physical. So when you set up gig to smaller city, it was, and perhaps is possible, that a lot of people come to check it out simply out of curiosity that something is actually happening around here. In a lot of noise shows generally turn out is all sorts of underground music people plus often some random outsiders if its public gig. I am not sure what would be year when I would have feeling "I'll skip that noise gig". It was not due lack of interest, more lack of time to travel to other regions and having other gigs overlapping.

Reality is that now that gig happen so often, that you can actually skip something without feeling of missing everything. You know you will catch those artists again. That might be downside of active scene. When gig is no longer utterly special event, but regular occurrence. In big city it is likely weekend noise gig competes with wide variety of classic bands of many styles.

Like the recent Helsinki gig. There was scheduled Last Resort playing too. Of course skin/oi and noise audience cross over isn't huge, but still most likely bunch would be lured to check out that, just to catch something you may never see anymore. That gig got cancelled for some reason. Same day also big finn RAC gig in public venue, where fairly big noise crossover also attend, as some of those bands are unlikely to see in capital area music venue. Very likely there was also metal gigs happening not that far away either. After all that, still noise gig had HUGE attendance compared to genre. Of course, artists ruled, so that's one thing. But there must be something else what keeps bringing more than "6 guys".

In podcast it is being talked how noise is now bigger than ever. At least in a way that people know noise as phenomena. Even if they would not be harsh noise heads, they know such genre exists. I think in Finland this awareness is pretty huge. It would be interesting test, to just talk to random people at any underground music genre, and I'd say there might be less people who do not know "noise" than people who are aware of such thing. That could also lead into idea of "lets check this gig out"?

The monthly WCN Video Party was this weekend, where supporters, former podcast guests, and WCN alumni meet up to talk about noise. If you missed it, you can watch the whole chat on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Out now! Jackson Abdul-Salaam of COMMUTER / HERUKRAT on WCN Podcast

https://youtu.be/d8h9ByPCLvY
https://youtu.be/d8h9ByPCLvY
https://youtu.be/d8h9ByPCLvY

Full interview content, download codes for the new COMMUTER album on New Forces, and more:

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quite unusual this time as big part of the episode goes on dealing with his conversion to islam. Not bad of course. It it curious when asking reactions of the scene and Jackson says all supportive, no negative feedback.
Quite often when there is talk about for example Muslimgauze, there emerges some comments how power electronics guys must hate it... while I've never, during multiple decades in the scene, talked to anyone who furiously hates Muslimgauze for its content. Some may be indifferent, but never seen or heard anyone rant about it. It may happen, sure, but so far never seen. I would be curious if publishers or distributors get shit for it either.

Curiously, despite more than half of podcast goes to talk of conversion, I think it didn't really tells what exactly was in islam particular that appealed. As opposed to buddhism, christianity, or something else. What was the appeal in doctrine, that the other religions did not have? Of course, the core of faith may be personal and none of our business really.

Back in childhood, part of my family converted into orthodox. I was asked do I want, and didn't. Some may recall the Seinfeld episode where George is converting into latvian orthodox and when asked what appealed him in the religion, he replies "mainly the hats". Even as a sitcom joke, it sort of tells a lot. Conversion my folks did was nothing about doctrine, all about community and aesthetics. hah..

I did find it amusing when explained that biggest misunderstanding concerning islam would be teachings vs. culture. That people would confuse teachings of islam with culture of region where that religion usually dominates, and blaming all the stuff upon religion. It is curious that one political party over here concluded while ago that islam is not a problem. If islam would be state religion in north, among nordic people, state and rest of culture would work out just fine. Problem is the culture, what could be assumed to be the people. Of course Jackson did not mean it like that (I suppose), but when discussion was going on, that was another moment where I'd feel interviewer could have asked "hey, wait a minute! Let me clarify, did you mean that..." haha..

As for noise, it felt curious how much emphasis was put on magnitude of source material. Man was talking about endless amount of recordings he is walking on the streets kicking garbage, and it would be curious to know if magnitude of source material is positive? I guess many have been in situation where you are planning for album, and there is like 10 hours of recordings. Think what the fuck I should be doing with THESE. Listening source sound or sessions recordings consisting hours of whatever, and trying to find the perfect 5 seconds loop moment from there. Awful. Simply awful job, if you ask me. haha. This could have been good to focus more. If massive amount of source sound is key to making album, in what way it is? Is it actually being used? What sounds are to be used? Is it more like meditation when you walk around with recorders, when knowing, this stuff ain't ever going to be used? Well, maybe there will be another interview with Jackson at some point, as he seems to be gaining popularity and recognition!

Thanks for having a listen!

I also didn't expect so much of the conversation to be focused on Islam, and was perhaps a bit caught off guard with it.  Not complaining of course, Oskar's job as a good interviewer is to ask questions that could put the person on the spot, or have to dig for answers a bit, so difficult questions are important.  I certainly don't see myself as a representative, or "spokesperson" for all of Islam, and I don't think I'm very suited to answer the questions about big misconceptions about it, and etc.  I'm not used to describing my own spiritual views or practices to people, in my personal life I'm a very private person, and these aren't conversations I'm often having with people around me, so being on the spot and having to think of an answer is a bit of a challenge.  I think the nature of spirituality is very personal anyway, so it's a difficult sort of thing to share with an audience.  But I'm glad we got around to getting deep into some noise as well.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on April 05, 2023, 08:57:48 AM
As for noise, it felt curious how much emphasis was put on magnitude of source material. Man was talking about endless amount of recordings he is walking on the streets kicking garbage, and it would be curious to know if magnitude of source material is positive? I guess many have been in situation where you are planning for album, and there is like 10 hours of recordings. Think what the fuck I should be doing with THESE. Listening source sound or sessions recordings consisting hours of whatever, and trying to find the perfect 5 seconds loop moment from there. Awful. Simply awful job, if you ask me. haha. This could have been good to focus more. If massive amount of source sound is key to making album, in what way it is? Is it actually being used? What sounds are to be used? Is it more like meditation when you walk around with recorders, when knowing, this stuff ain't ever going to be used? Well, maybe there will be another interview with Jackson at some point, as he seems to be gaining popularity and recognition!

This is funny and maybe I should have specified a little more more or been a little bit more clear about my process of gathering the field recordings.  I don't actually have the field recorder set to REC the entire time I'm out and about walking the streets to get sound.  You're right, that would make for an awful studio session listening back to hours and hours of sound waiting for anything that sounds interesting and then clipping it out. The magnitude of time spent is more referred to trying to hunting for those sounds when I'm out walking.  When I'm out recording on the streets I'm looking for the perfect sounds, and waiting to turn the field recorder on.  So my actual sample bank is made up of recordings that are maybe 10 seconds at the shortest, and a minute long for the longest.  A recording of something like a freight train or passing police sirens could be up to a minute long.  And then things like recording a person yelling, an argument happening, somebody mumbling a schizophrenic rant at the train station, or finding a loud metal fence to kick, a dumpster to bang on... stuff like this might only be 10-20 seconds long.  So when I sit down to pull samples from my field recorder I could just be making a 10 second loop on my SP404 of any of these.  I just need to be very selective when I'm out doing recordings, otherwise the process would probably put me to sleep. 

There's a new podcast schedule now in effect! Each Monday at 18:00 CET:

1st week: Podcast - public
2nd week: WCN TV - Patreon exclusive
3rd week: Podcast - public
4th week: Video Workshop/Party - Patreon exclusive (The workshop will be held on the weekend, and the recording will air on Patreon the following Monday)

I've also improved and updated the Patreon, refining the benefits and focus of each tier: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

This Monday is an episode of AFTERBLAST - a follow up discussion wit my first ever podcast guest, Ilkka Vekka of HAARE / SAVAGE GOSPEL. This is WCN TV content, available through Patreon.

Out now on WCN TV - AFTERBLAST with Ilkka Vekka of HAARE / SAVAGE GOSPEL

Ilkka was my first ever guest on the podcast, so it was a great joy to follow up with him nearly 2 years later. We start by talking about what he's been up to lately musically (which is lots!), which leads us into a variety of topics such as genre perception, modern music, scene politics, and fatherhood.

You can watch or listen to the full 1 hour 45 minute episode at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Preview: https://youtu.be/gAocI-lHoYQ

Out now! Johnathan Cash of SUNK COST / BREAKDANCING RONALD REAGAN on WCN Podcast!

https://youtu.be/77djddVNtVg
https://youtu.be/77djddVNtVg
https://youtu.be/77djddVNtVg

See the full episode content in the EXT. segment, download an exclusive unreleased SUNK COST track, and SUPPORT this podcast: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Podcast those funny ones. Guy can talk, and keeps talking, self consciously funny of course. Good story of The Rita nugget as well as used ballet shoes request.

I think there are indeed many untold stories, unrecognized things in development of noise. I have mentioned it before many many times, but it feels kind of funny, that there is notable agreement about importance of "tape culture", "tape trading", "mail art" and whatever, that shaped certain moment in history of noise pioneers. When you take leap into 00's, it is almost total silence surrounding blogs, things like soulseek, and also this episode perhaps being one of the uncommon moments when myspace scene gets mentioned somewhat positively. In all honesty, there MUST be more noise guys exposed to harsh noise via soulseek or such, as opposed to "cassette culture".

Noisextra has the dedication to noise from beginning till 90's, it clearly rules out big part of the development that happened within last 20 years. That are has so much to deal with, and for me personally that is most interesting era anyways. Guys who are now 40, 50 or something, perhaps this myspace, blog, soulseek era of noise is what they lived through. However, guys who are now.. 15, 25... that era of noise may be interesting as it was something they never witnessed, but is not some totally ancient past. It could be both relatable and interesting as it is the recent step, which is still largely disappeared. It would be odd if that era would not be "documented". Guys WCN interviews, often seem to be that age who started in noise when this was happening. Not getting tape from other side of the world, but following their instinct and out of thousands and thousands of files, downloading something that would change course of their own interests in sound.

I do not remember BREAKDANCING RONALD REAGAN at all, but him mentioning trolling iheartnoise (troniks/chondritic) forum as teenager kid was kind of funny. When he talks that his excuse being sort of dysfunctional 14 year old, and ending into online arguments with 30+ year old noise heads.. asking whats their excuse? haha.... true! Now in hindsight mentioning that obnoxious posts could have been just ignored. It seems surprisingly tough for people to do that. Even on SI forum, occasionally I get reports that someone has used wrong word or being just little unpolite. Yeah, I know, the no drama -policy is in place, but it is flexible. If it seems people are resilient and not starting to lose their shit over some post, that post can stay. Ideally, at some point people would be like grown up BREAKDANCING RONALD REAGAN guy, recognize that one doesn't have to get triggered of everything. You can pass something, move on regardless of obnoxious comment you see.

( Just few days ago, I was forwarded into "discussion" happening at noise reddit, where there is discussion wether Gerogerigegege are fascists, due having said favorable things about Bizarre Uproar. Soon progress into questions how could anyone defend Eric Wood after decades long co-operation with known racists. It does make one think options, clueless kids? Trolls? Idiots? Who knows. Those categories have entire internet. Luckily couple noise boards exists where less of that, and emphasis of talk by noise devotees that are expected to know a bit of basics. As opposed to old days, now question if Gero or Wood are fascist is actually question adult person who is heavily into noise can make and have people treating it as legit question. Trying to explain why it is unlikely seems so ridiculous. )

I am almost tempted to check out patreon for some noise gossip stories man has there, if it's the E.Council, The Rita and that type of noise folklore. Previous Haare episode didn't watch as it was for patreons only. Have to congratulate Oscar for adjusting into dad mode and cutting greasy away and look like upstanding citizen now!

Taking a couple weeks off the podcast to focus on family. Now is a great time to join the Patreon - you can catch up on all of the Patreon exclusive episodes and provide needed support to WCN: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

WCN Podcast is back!

Out now: Episode 55 with James Light of WOUNDED SON / AGONAL LUST / FINDERS https://youtu.be/_7yGTlQqOZM

James Light makes industrial music under numerous monikers such as WOUNDED SON, MEATPACKER, and DRILLER. Aside from his solo work, he is member of the infamous duo AGONAL LUST, known for their suffocatingly morbid recordings and intensely violent performances. Here, James opens up about his life, touching on his traumatic upbringing, his struggles with mental health, and how all of these things funnel into the totality of his art. We also talk about his former label Finders, and his current imprint Packing Plant in this new episode of White Centipede Noise Podcast.

In the Patreon exclusive EXT. video, James talks about his personal relationship with the late great Keith Brewer of TAINT and MANIA, and shows me his top 5 industrial and power electronics releases of all time from his collection. James was also gracious enough to donate an exclusive digital EP from Agonal Lust side project CONTRAVENTION to the Maniac's Circle, which is now available there for download.

All that and more at: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Almost felt like something is missing during the break.. thinking what to listen on walks.
The polish salt factory that is mentioned, is very neat place to go to. For those who don't know it, check out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1462mq2UxVY

In episode, at one point Oskar asks "why do we do this, why do we release noise?"

That question is interesting in a way that how should we approach the question? If it is suddenly blurted out to guy who has few seconds to think, it might not be obvious that we could ask exactly same question about most things in life. Even if you'd have answer for things like "why do you go to work", "why does car look like that" or thousand other questions. Usually we know sort of generic answer. Like former question trivial answer most likely: "to get money". That would already suggest in our lives we accepted certain guidelines how life should be lived and then just go along with the stream. A lot would be something build on formerly existing culture and behavior, and there barely is solid reason why one would collect "sneakers" or "baseball cards".

Interesting question in a way that it is slightly odd, and you don't really expect it would need.. "justification" so to say. Noise is one of the things that is less likely choices, but already for decades it is nevertheless existing option where people usually just end up and "why" can be quite strange question, although, I feel it can and ideally would be, manifestation to such question. Out of all things absolutely obvious, and things that are being culturally conditioned to be ways to go, for reason or another, someone prefers something else. Recognizes that there are options, preferences and alternative ways of living your life beyond the obvious. But to get very bottom of question seems almost futile. Why we release, relies on centuries of this urge and technological development that puts it on list of doable options? "Why" -question may have answer that it's part of urges that makes one human, that simply developed into unexpected direction? It feels that one could skip that level of questions that do not have answers, but proceed into why do you make or release in the way you do, as opposed to some other way. Things were one can certainly have conscious decision involved. Of course, we got to it. We get to hear some details about how Finders label was operating, how releases happened and so on.

We also get into self harm, mental issues, etc. It curiously ties into above mentioned. James mentioned that when the suicidal urges come, you should seek for help. He mentions that at some point it is not really you anymore. That is also curious notion. Thinking how big % of darker alternative culture may be born out of or related to mental issues or mere alienation. Question why one would be selling tapes of pedal distortion may appear less mystery, than why would one work entire waking times in job one doesn't like, to finance life that ain't really rewarding, sitting in traffic hours and hours, looking at scenery, and the population, that whole thing and - when you think of it - doesn't make sense whatsoever. Behind the wheel thinking Falling Down -film is just about to be reenacted. eh eh..   A lot of noise fellows may be able to say question why I make noise, is that at least I made a choice how to live my life, based on things I wanted to do, following instinct and taste, and not just drift in pre-programmed existence.

Up there as one of the top WCN interviews so far I think. Both Oskar and James pushed this along into very in-depth, and of course, personal discussions. Oskar controlled and guided the interview very well. Lots of meaningful insight into artistic intent. I appreciated a lot of the honesty about the different live shows and the desired reactions from the audience. Not all of the answers are typical or expected, but James' intent seems earnest and he is after a very illicit experience. The entire discussion is very direct, well thought out, and I enjoyed the unique perspectives.

A lot to digest and revisit.

I highly recommend everyone check out his release, The Sun – The Loss Of One, on Total Black from last year. Perfect example of only releasing things you would re-listen to multiple times. I've listened to this tape no less than 10 times since it came out and continue to throw it on every few weeks.

Quote from: Fistfuck Masonanie on May 17, 2023, 04:01:08 AMI highly recommend everyone check out his release, The Sun – The Loss Of One, on Total Black from last year. Perfect example of only releasing things you would re-listen to multiple times. I've listened to this tape no less than 10 times since it came out and continue to throw it on every few weeks.

Thanks for pointing this out.  Has an old and early feel to it, like something out of the 80s.  Experimentalism...thick with atmosphere.  The cover instantly nagged at me, like I'd seen it before.  Maybe color pangs from Big Country - The Crossing?

Out now! AFTERBLAST with Pat Yankee of PARANOID TIME / JOCKESSES on WCN TV!

Pat Yankee of harsh noise force PARANOID TIME joins me for a second time to talk about his pre-PT project JOCKESSES, which was recently reissued on WCN. We chat about that and a whole lot more on this episode of AFTERBLAST - a WCN TV series available through the White Centipede Noise Patreon.

Trailer: https://youtu.be/RTsLr7SP99k
Full episode: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

OUT NOW - Kevin Novak of T.E.F.
Kevin Novak is a master of cut up harsh noise hailing from Texas, USA. Active since the late 90s, he has worked closely with labels such as Hospital Productions, Pitch Phase, and Dada Drumming, the latter of which has released his most recent masterful albums Framework and Wrought. Kevin joined me to talk about what he does, how, and even a bit of the "why?," touching on his history, recording and gear techniques, and even his other creative outlet, painting. T.E.F. is a personal favorite project of mine, so this interview meant a lot to me.

https://youtu.be/k4uvv1BXJM8

In the Patreon exclusive EXT. video, Kevin goes into details about digital streaming, talks about his former label, making special handmade packaging, and reissues. Kevin has also graciously shared the audio file from his T.E.F release "Machination Of A Corner", released as a bizcard in 2002 on PACrec. Also, for those watching living, I'm giving away a copy of T.E.F. / A FAIL ASSOCIATION 7" (White Centipede Noise, 2019) with inverted colorway from the regular edition, riso printed by Tommy Carlsson. Edition 1 / 6 (the other 5 were packaged with the insane test pressing Texas flag edition) There will be a Patreon post as soon as the episode ends visible to all Heavy Sponsor / Noise Fiend Patreon supporters, and the first person to comment on the post wins this special 7".

All that and much more at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Previous afterblast, just checked out the free 15 mins with Pat. Always curious to listen the noise biz talk. Theories of up's and downs in genre. It would be curious to see people who were in multiple genres in USA, was there something similar visible in other music genres? Like hypothesis of economic crash being one cause of downfall, people running out of money, less noise tape batches and all that.. did it happen with other USA underground music? Punk, hc, metal...?
I don't think it happened at 2008'ish, but indeed, the more CD oriented metal scene probably went down, the small webstores & distros, etc? With metal, it seemed as if bigger places grew bigger, smaller got smaller. Same for bands. At one time it seemed as if everybody was selling the same, suddenly hierarchy was back. No name copycat bands would no longer move 1000 discs, like they could some years earlier. It is possible this same is with noise. When level of saturation reaches certain point, it needs to be some quite extraordinary stuff, and big batch that feel (regardless is it or not) more of the same just isn't enough. Same may be for zine. Even podcast! You got one first big major issue, long a waited and stirs discussion. Then, like discussed in this episode, suddenly some folks will be thinking not again another noise t-shirt noise guys circle jerk! haha. My estimation is, that regardless is there visible and loud response.  How big crowd is enough, is of course question one can think from their own perspective.

I can't remember did they talk about LOUD LOUDER LOUDEST radioshow in the former podcast. And no idea if it came out on full episode? About 10 years ago, almost 100 two hour harsh noise radio-mixes came out. Have I listened them all? Hell no! But every episode I did, basically ruled. They were more like all-on-ten mixes of stuff, crossfading and bleeding into eachother. Mixer blasted at all red, compressing hell out of already loud harsh noise. Some may get burned out on doing weekly shows thinking only 10.. 20.. 30.. 40 occasionally 100 people listened to them. Even less in actual radio-live situation. I feel this just kind of waits to be re-discovered. Not sure if its illusion, but it is possible that when idea of noise mix-tapes, purely digital stream releases, and all that is probably more accepted than decade ago (don't know, just gut feeling), perhaps now more than dozen people could be into checking out things like:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mankdevo/



T.E.F., listened couple of his CD's last week. Box from Dada Drumming arrived, and I liked what I heard! TEF is certainly among very best of cut up harsh noise, and all his talk about how he actually makes it, perhaps explains why it is as good as it is.
One greatest qualities is that it is as much cut-up noise as it is just vivid high energy harsh noise.

Out now! AFTERBLAST with Andy Bolus of EVIL MOISTURE!

Lovely long follow up chat to our first interview, this time on the eve of Andy's trip to the USA to play Summer Scum Festival in NYC.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Afterblast is pretty good idea. Now that I got to see the rest of Pat Yankee, I would guess that there is something in first getting discussion going... and it seem inevitable that not matter how long episode may have been recorded, at least the target of interview will be "god damn! I should have clarified that..." .  Last weekend happened to give long interview for Finn podcast, which doesn't touch noise too deep though, but regardless of some hours of length, feeling is more of "I should have talked about...".  Why afterblast recorded fairly soon after the first episode could be very good way to get things deeper. Not only artists knows what he probably did not talk about that should have, but perhaps more audience questions - if there are.

One question that is sort of personal, but it comes up even in afterblast, Pat mentions that at some point he kind of drifted away from noise. I assume about 10 years ago when he stopped LLL, stopped labels, etc..  Just mentioning that other things were happening. It comes fairly clear, it can be summed into "life happened". Many times those active in their youth, suddenly becomes less active and turns out when you got family with young kids, the priorities may have to be adjusted. Smoking weed and fooling around with tape edits may not feel like top priority when you got kids that need attention or challenging work that needs to be dealt with?

At least, it seems to be that "I got interested again", often appears to correlate with getting some free time (lets say covid restrictions as example) or a bit older guys, who suddenly make come back into recording or touring, simply because their personal situation changed. To me, at least, it appears as if these things would happen in clusters. People of certain generation of noise, tend to behave like people usually do, so in certain age it will be house, wife, kids and the real work and people being roughly same generation sudden wave of people dropping out can be sometimes simply that life got on the way of noise, hah..   Now that noise has no longer been "youth culture" per se, it may be different?

One thing got to add, the talk about "new methods of making noise" is kind of curious. I feel this has been discussed, but like discussions about the need of pushing noise to new direction. Notions of old guys back in the day often being on top of the technological development, as opposed to now methods or gear being.. kind of vintage. Amps,
guitar pedals, synths, etc   Necessity to push noise somewhere else than guys with pedals churning harsh walls on compact cassette...
It feels kind of odd, since I don't think it requires anything else expanding than horizon what one wants to listen to and check out. If not wanting yet another C-30 of pedal noise artists, then one may has to look other direction? As there certainly can't be shortage of computer generated noise, or other new gear.

It could be worth discussion if the obvious development and diversity of noise, methods, gear and ways of releasing or experiencing is merely clouded by outcome of tight curation based on subgenre mentality? Like, wanting something new, but if the new is not the same, it gets rejected? To push something just a notch into another direction keeps it accepted as part of harsh noise, yet then isn't anything dramatically different?

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 14, 2023, 12:22:58 PM
One thing got to add, the talk about "new methods of making noise" is kind of curious. I feel this has been discussed, but like discussions about the need of pushing noise to new direction. Notions of old guys back in the day often being on top of the technological development, as opposed to now methods or gear being.. kind of vintage. Amps,
guitar pedals, synths, etc   Necessity to push noise somewhere else than guys with pedals churning harsh walls on compact cassette...
It feels kind of odd, since I don't think it requires anything else expanding than horizon what one wants to listen to and check out. If not wanting yet another C-30 of pedal noise artists, then one may has to look other direction? As there certainly can't be shortage of computer generated noise, or other new gear.

It could be worth discussion if the obvious development and diversity of noise, methods, gear and ways of releasing or experiencing is merely clouded by outcome of tight curation based on subgenre mentality? Like, wanting something new, but if the new is not the same, it gets rejected? To push something just a notch into another direction keeps it accepted as part of harsh noise, yet then isn't anything dramatically different?

It never ceases to baffle me that this same "new methods required"-angle still pops up in discussions related to noise / experimental, especially when gear is discussed.

To my mind it often contains this maybe unconscious materialistic insinuation that technology is the main driving force behind experimental expression, that persona or the vision behind the sound is secondary. It's not like oil painting technique itself is holding back the artist, it's the lack of skills, imagination and some sort of vision that is the real obstacle. It is possible to create almost infinite amount of sounds, noises and timbres with already existing set of "noise tools" when combined with different spaces, amplification sources, recording methods and post-production tools. It just needs experimenting a lot, listening and some skills and time.

And in this time and age you could definitely find noise artists that do not use contact mic into DOD Death Metal plugged straight into four-trackers input. I understand that people get stuck in their own past preferences, get jaded and cynical about things, that's what life can do to you. But to generalize your own irks and peeves to level of whole artform itself seems a bit stupid to me. It sure is phenomenon in i.e classic rock, only in reactionary form, where people are moaning about the death of rock and electric guitar and the only flagbearer for true rock spirit is either some dipshit Bonamassa or some lukewarm teenage Led Zeppelin jukebox from States.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 14, 2023, 12:22:58 PM
It could be worth discussion if the obvious development and diversity of noise, methods, gear and ways of releasing or experiencing is merely clouded by outcome of tight curation based on subgenre mentality? Like, wanting something new, but if the new is not the same, it gets rejected? To push something just a notch into another direction keeps it accepted as part of harsh noise, yet then isn't anything dramatically different?

It sure feels that way. The demands of the market, I think. No risk taking, just preferring to keep it safe because it seems to work all the time. Put out another Marvel superhero movie, put out another Noise tape that's "about" sexual murders with a photocopied, collaged image cover - it's the same thing. The slightest twist on the formula, play it up in the advertising, it seems to work so far.

Quote from: Commander15 on June 15, 2023, 09:57:58 AM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 14, 2023, 12:22:58 PM
One thing got to add, the talk about "new methods of making noise" is kind of curious. I feel this has been discussed, but like discussions about the need of pushing noise to new direction. Notions of old guys back in the day often being on top of the technological development, as opposed to now methods or gear being.. kind of vintage. Amps,
guitar pedals, synths, etc   Necessity to push noise somewhere else than guys with pedals churning harsh walls on compact cassette...
It feels kind of odd, since I don't think it requires anything else expanding than horizon what one wants to listen to and check out. If not wanting yet another C-30 of pedal noise artists, then one may has to look other direction? As there certainly can't be shortage of computer generated noise, or other new gear.

It could be worth discussion if the obvious development and diversity of noise, methods, gear and ways of releasing or experiencing is merely clouded by outcome of tight curation based on subgenre mentality? Like, wanting something new, but if the new is not the same, it gets rejected? To push something just a notch into another direction keeps it accepted as part of harsh noise, yet then isn't anything dramatically different?

It never ceases to baffle me that this same "new methods required"-angle still pops up in discussions related to noise / experimental, especially when gear is discussed.

To my mind it often contains this maybe unconscious materialistic insinuation that technology is the main driving force behind experimental expression, that persona or the vision behind the sound is secondary. It's not like oil painting technique itself is holding back the artist, it's the lack of skills, imagination and some sort of vision that is the real obstacle. It is possible to create almost infinite amount of sounds, noises and timbres with already existing set of "noise tools" when combined with different spaces, amplification sources, recording methods and post-production tools. It just needs experimenting a lot, listening and some skills and time.

And in this time and age you could definitely find noise artists that do not use contact mic into DOD Death Metal plugged straight into four-trackers input. I understand that people get stuck in their own past preferences, get jaded and cynical about things, that's what life can do to you. But to generalize your own irks and peeves to level of whole artform itself seems a bit stupid to me. It sure is phenomenon in i.e classic rock, only in reactionary form, where people are moaning about the death of rock and electric guitar and the only flagbearer for true rock spirit is either some dipshit Bonamassa or some lukewarm teenage Led Zeppelin jukebox from States.

The context of this conversation was new methods for creating HARSH noise in its precise sense, whatever that may be, not general experimental sound. I can’t provide an exact definition of that that is, but as a base definition I might personally say something like it is simply violent, loud, textured sound comprised of pure noise.

I do not believe the existing set of harsh noise tools can create an infinite amount of timbres, noises and sounds. That’s just my point, I believe it is finite and quite physically limited, and that the tools predetermine the artistic output in a big way. If we are talking about the existing noise tools, I’d say around 90% of harsh noise artists’s work is based around using a fairly narrow range, maybe 10-20, of acoustic or electronic source distorted and filtered through analog circuits, or digital methods that simulate analog circuits. I have to believe there are powerful sounds that satisfy the essence of HARSH noise that are rarely achieved, or possibly have never been achieved, that we might not even be able to imagine, because they don’t occur when using the existing set of noise tools.

It is as if a visual artist had a specific INTENT to convey (i.e. harsh noise) but was limiting themselves to use only oil painting to achieve it. At some point they might decide - “for what I want to convey, I could possibly do it better and more effectively with watercolors, or a mixed media collage, or a 3D projection, etc.” I’m not arguing that there might not be a seemingly infinite creative variations within the existing framework, but at the end of the day, they will always be defined by its tools and medium, which might not have any inherent defining connection to the intent. If we imagine that harsh noise is a certain type of audio intent beyond the sound of analog distortion, then the current predominant tools might become like a fraction of what could be used to achieve this.

Quote from: WCN on June 15, 2023, 02:06:00 PM

Quote from: Commander15 on June 15, 2023, 09:57:58 AM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 14, 2023, 12:22:58 PM
One thing got to add, the talk about "new methods of making noise" is kind of curious. I feel this has been discussed, but like discussions about the need of pushing noise to new direction. Notions of old guys back in the day often being on top of the technological development, as opposed to now methods or gear being.. kind of vintage. Amps,
guitar pedals, synths, etc   Necessity to push noise somewhere else than guys with pedals churning harsh walls on compact cassette...
It feels kind of odd, since I don't think it requires anything else expanding than horizon what one wants to listen to and check out. If not wanting yet another C-30 of pedal noise artists, then one may has to look other direction? As there certainly can't be shortage of computer generated noise, or other new gear.

It could be worth discussion if the obvious development and diversity of noise, methods, gear and ways of releasing or experiencing is merely clouded by outcome of tight curation based on subgenre mentality? Like, wanting something new, but if the new is not the same, it gets rejected? To push something just a notch into another direction keeps it accepted as part of harsh noise, yet then isn't anything dramatically different?

It never ceases to baffle me that this same "new methods required"-angle still pops up in discussions related to noise / experimental, especially when gear is discussed.

To my mind it often contains this maybe unconscious materialistic insinuation that technology is the main driving force behind experimental expression, that persona or the vision behind the sound is secondary. It's not like oil painting technique itself is holding back the artist, it's the lack of skills, imagination and some sort of vision that is the real obstacle. It is possible to create almost infinite amount of sounds, noises and timbres with already existing set of "noise tools" when combined with different spaces, amplification sources, recording methods and post-production tools. It just needs experimenting a lot, listening and some skills and time.

And in this time and age you could definitely find noise artists that do not use contact mic into DOD Death Metal plugged straight into four-trackers input. I understand that people get stuck in their own past preferences, get jaded and cynical about things, that's what life can do to you. But to generalize your own irks and peeves to level of whole artform itself seems a bit stupid to me. It sure is phenomenon in i.e classic rock, only in reactionary form, where people are moaning about the death of rock and electric guitar and the only flagbearer for true rock spirit is either some dipshit Bonamassa or some lukewarm teenage Led Zeppelin jukebox from States.

The context of this conversation was new methods for creating HARSH noise in its precise sense, whatever that may be, not general experimental sound. I can't provide an exact definition of that that is, but as a base definition I might personally say something like it is simply violent, loud, textured sound comprised of pure noise.

I do not believe the existing set of harsh noise tools can create an infinite amount of timbres, noises and sounds. That's just my point, I believe it is finite and quite physically limited, and that the tools predetermine the artistic output in a big way. If we are talking about the existing noise tools, I'd say around 90% of harsh noise artists's work is based around using an acoustic or electronic source distorted and filtered through analog circuits, or digital methods that simulate analog circuits. I have to believe there are powerful sounds that satisfy the essence of HARSH noise that are rarely achieved, or possibly have never been achieved, that we might not even be able to imagine, because they don't occur when using the existing set of noise tools.

It is as if a visual artist had a specific INTENT to convey (i.e. harsh noise) but was limiting themselves to use only oil painting to achieve it. At some point they might decide - "for what I want to convey, I could possibly do it better and more effectively with watercolors, or a mixed media collage, or a 3D projection, etc." I'm not arguing that there might not be a seemingly infinite creative variations within the existing framework, but at the end of the day, they will always be defined by its tools and medium, which might not have any inherent defining connection to the intent. If we imagine that harsh noise is a certain type of audio intent beyond the sound of analog distortion, then the current predominant tools might become like a fraction of what could be used to achieve this.

I must admit that i didn't know the actual context was, i was just simply replying to FreakAnimalFinland's message, thank you for clarifying that. I'll come back to this subject with an answer when i have some free time on my disposal.

Quote from: WCN on June 15, 2023, 02:06:00 PM
The context of this conversation was new methods for creating HARSH noise in its precise sense, whatever that may be, not general experimental sound. I can't provide an exact definition of that that is, but as a base definition I might personally say something like it is simply violent, loud, textured sound comprised of pure noise.

Oh yes, I feel this is kind of discussion of different "schools" of noise, what really constitutes as noise or harsh noise.

If we absolutely insist, that harsh noise must be: pure distortion - well, I guess in that sense we set so narrow limit to harsh noise that it can only be: pure distortion. How that square wave of harsh distortion can be achieved, in the end, I would say there are very little room for advancement.

I would rather ask same question that I have asked any times before, is the distortion the qualification of NOISE and harsh noise? I am not talking about experimental music as a whole. I am indeed, talking of Noise with capital N. Based on my own experience, where distortion and "harshness" may be equal to soothing bubble bath. That the noisiness, disorienting, challenging, confusing, surprising, unpleasant, sense of LOUDNESS, sense of decay, sense of damage, sense of brokenness, sense of disorganized chaos, and so forth, are also qualities of noise. Or more precisely HARSH noise. If some sound has only distortion, only texture, how harsh it is compared to something that has unexpected broken damage, decay, loudness (that is not depending on volume), and other qualities?

It feels odd, that if we'd want something new, and then limit the possibility of that required new into frame where nothing new could happen. Other than what method of distortion we will apply into sounds we have. I feel it is counterproductive to harsh noise, and neither it is harsh noise I personally know of. I'd rather say this is the new noise. The late 2010's noise. New noise that thinks amount of static distortion is what defines its harshness, while you could grab something like Organum/TNB, Gerogerigege, S&Q (as easy examples we all know), who include the other qualities of harsh (literal definition: unpleasantly rough or jarring to the senses, and furthermore, rough being literally "irregular surface; not smooth or level").

I am fully aware, this may be partly matter of semantics. But, that said, I am not talking about noise as "experimental music", but noise as sound that is not synonymous with sound you find from maximum settings of distortion pedal.

Then there is Bolus in new episdoe, explaining that the idea of what constitutes noise has been comepletely changed " you get a boss pedal or whatever and suddenly you are a noise artist?"
NO
This is what we have popping up EVERYWHERE and it is a far cry from say... look back on bands like NURSE WITH WOUND.
Not many people are bringing the artistry into their gear.

Quote from: WCN on June 15, 2023, 02:06:00 PM

Quote from: Commander15 on June 15, 2023, 09:57:58 AM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 14, 2023, 12:22:58 PM
One thing got to add, the talk about "new methods of making noise" is kind of curious. I feel this has been discussed, but like discussions about the need of pushing noise to new direction. Notions of old guys back in the day often being on top of the technological development, as opposed to now methods or gear being.. kind of vintage. Amps,
guitar pedals, synths, etc   Necessity to push noise somewhere else than guys with pedals churning harsh walls on compact cassette...
It feels kind of odd, since I don't think it requires anything else expanding than horizon what one wants to listen to and check out. If not wanting yet another C-30 of pedal noise artists, then one may has to look other direction? As there certainly can't be shortage of computer generated noise, or other new gear.

It could be worth discussion if the obvious development and diversity of noise, methods, gear and ways of releasing or experiencing is merely clouded by outcome of tight curation based on subgenre mentality? Like, wanting something new, but if the new is not the same, it gets rejected? To push something just a notch into another direction keeps it accepted as part of harsh noise, yet then isn't anything dramatically different?

It never ceases to baffle me that this same "new methods required"-angle still pops up in discussions related to noise / experimental, especially when gear is discussed.

To my mind it often contains this maybe unconscious materialistic insinuation that technology is the main driving force behind experimental expression, that persona or the vision behind the sound is secondary. It's not like oil painting technique itself is holding back the artist, it's the lack of skills, imagination and some sort of vision that is the real obstacle. It is possible to create almost infinite amount of sounds, noises and timbres with already existing set of "noise tools" when combined with different spaces, amplification sources, recording methods and post-production tools. It just needs experimenting a lot, listening and some skills and time.

And in this time and age you could definitely find noise artists that do not use contact mic into DOD Death Metal plugged straight into four-trackers input. I understand that people get stuck in their own past preferences, get jaded and cynical about things, that's what life can do to you. But to generalize your own irks and peeves to level of whole artform itself seems a bit stupid to me. It sure is phenomenon in i.e classic rock, only in reactionary form, where people are moaning about the death of rock and electric guitar and the only flagbearer for true rock spirit is either some dipshit Bonamassa or some lukewarm teenage Led Zeppelin jukebox from States.

The context of this conversation was new methods for creating HARSH noise in its precise sense, whatever that may be, not general experimental sound. I can't provide an exact definition of that that is, but as a base definition I might personally say something like it is simply violent, loud, textured sound comprised of pure noise.

I do not believe the existing set of harsh noise tools can create an infinite amount of timbres, noises and sounds. That's just my point, I believe it is finite and quite physically limited, and that the tools predetermine the artistic output in a big way. If we are talking about the existing noise tools, I'd say around 90% of harsh noise artists's work is based around using a fairly narrow range, maybe 10-20, of acoustic or electronic source distorted and filtered through analog circuits, or digital methods that simulate analog circuits. I have to believe there are powerful sounds that satisfy the essence of HARSH noise that are rarely achieved, or possibly have never been achieved, that we might not even be able to imagine, because they don't occur when using the existing set of noise tools.

It is as if a visual artist had a specific INTENT to convey (i.e. harsh noise) but was limiting themselves to use only oil painting to achieve it. At some point they might decide - "for what I want to convey, I could possibly do it better and more effectively with watercolors, or a mixed media collage, or a 3D projection, etc." I'm not arguing that there might not be a seemingly infinite creative variations within the existing framework, but at the end of the day, they will always be defined by its tools and medium, which might not have any inherent defining connection to the intent. If we imagine that harsh noise is a certain type of audio intent beyond the sound of analog distortion, then the current predominant tools might become like a fraction of what could be used to achieve this.

OK here we go. I think the problem here, especially with my original reply, was in semantics and the lack of context. So for the sake of clarifying things i will be using genres / terms NOISE and HARSH NOISE from now on in context of this discussion.

If the amount of noises, sounds and timbres that you pull out from "standard" harsh noise gear isn't infinite, it sure is still plenty. Let's say that you have sheets of metal as an primary sound source. First variables concern the ways of exciting the metal surface: fist, knife, metal chain, concrete etc. Then comes the micing: do you use contact mic or do you use vocal or instrument mics? Every mic has it's own sound and that combined microphones distance from the object is changing the timbre of the recorded sound. And then there is the space where the noise is recorded, that adds huge amount of variables into play. Are you using amplification? Whole new set of variables are introduced into the game and we haven't still touched the topics of effects units, recording gear, mixers, post-production etc. Even if you want to distort and compress the shit out of this set of variables by running the results thru some DOD or Boss distortion pedal, there is still the human factor left in the form of artist or gear operator. For example if you give the same source and gear to, let's say, Treriksröset and Worth, the results would differ greatly.

What comes to the paragraph where you touched the subject of techniques and their limitations, i never wrote that the mixed techniques are out of the question. Hell the mixed techniques are in the very heart of Harsh Noise and Noise itself. Synthesis of techniques are expanding the artistic possibilities and also possible sounds and outcomes even more. But even if we reduce the Harsh Noise into the realm of pure distortion, all these variables and techniques will still affect the choices that the artist make or already made which in turn affects the sound. My main point here is that while the gear matters in this context, in the end of the day it is the human factor that matters the most.

I'll admit that the idea of never achieved essence of HARSH NOISE and the faustian drive towards the final frontiers of HARSHNESS are indeed good things when they are pushing the percieved limits of existing gear and the artform itself. But i have hard time trying to imagine that what the possible "progress" in gear and new methods in HARSH NOISE would ultimately be and would it be fair to call those ways an "progress"? AI assisted noise, where the AI makes the sound synthesis digitally for the operator? Sounds of pure data being crunched?

Couple things, perhaps there would be good to separate discussion into own topic, if it starts to take too much attention from WCN podcast advertisements? But of course, can keep it on this one too.

One thing, that was mentioned in it, was also the discussion, that when the next wave of noise comes, would it still be about harsh noise tapes? One could say that phenomena of people recording and releasing NOISE on tape has been around since early 80's. 40+ years. Of course before that too in context of experimental music, etc

What was being discussed is, and that kind of overlaps with above mentioned talk about possibilities of noise, is that when this current "wave" of noise starts to go lower as waves then to do, and next time noise starts to gain new momentum and new rise.. will it STILL happen in form of guys putting out 100 copies noise compact cassettes? Like.. lets assume.. 2040?

I think there was expressed that it seems unlikely. And furthermore, that there could (/should) be new ways of experiencing and listening to noise. Like already now, WCN has featured artist who put out release in form of uploaded package with computer script, right? You are not listening tape or CD, but programmed noise generating file from computer?

Of course sound artists has been working with ideas of surround sound, better-than-cd quality digital sound, all sorts of audio-visual combinations. Yet, in the end, if the mass of noise listeners are experiencing the stuff via stereo gear - it will put certain strict parameters on noise. In the end, it will be mono or stereo audio, listened with speakers or headphones. To push noise be more than that, does happen, and can happen in things such as sound installation etc. Suddenly the limitations of stereo playback are not that strict anymore.




Another thing, if noise culture is no longer revolving around artists releasing tapes - I suppose we could simply acknowledge this already happened. I feel pretty confident to think the NOISE what we see on SI forum or S&W forum, plus on the labels who advertise physical releases there, has vastly bigger noise phenomena of noise makers. Like you could think of modular synth culture. You may ask someone how they feel about this and that label, this and that artists, this and that album, yet they might be thinking what the hell you are talking about, I'm not listening so shitty 70's kraut albums, I'm here to make synth experiments and watch gear advice videos!  Nothing revolves around releasing tape or LP.

One can go to youtube, type (as example) harsh noise contact mic. You will get instantly bunch of videos like Making Harsh Noise With Contact Mic, Mixer and Pedals (6K views), Crank Sturgeon Contact Mic Tutorial (27K views), Harsh Noise Gear Walkthrough // Pedals, Contact Mics, Tape Loops, & More! (27K views), Little John Noise Box (52K views) and so on and on. While noise artists interviews do appear to be popular in contrast of how noise sells (artists making tapes of edition of 20-100, attracts 1000 podcast listeners), both these things seem to be small minority phenomena as opposed to some sort of interest to be noise makers.

I would assume this could be related to that a bit?

Quote from: Strangecross on June 16, 2023, 12:08:28 AM
Then there is Bolus in new episdoe, explaining that the idea of what constitutes noise has been comepletely changed " you get a boss pedal or whatever and suddenly you are a noise artist?"
NO
This is what we have popping up EVERYWHERE and it is a far cry from say... look back on bands like NURSE WITH WOUND.
Not many people are bringing the artistry into their gear.

If harsh noise becomes stripped down into merely being "about distortion" and all its cultural qualities apart from technology is fading away plus notion of "noise artist" (as opposed to "noise makers") is no longer there... There is huge change. Despite they can and do cross-over, there is quite a difference in "workshop hobby noise", and "harsh noise" as art form, that doesn't even really demand that artists themselves consider themselves doing art.

QuoteOne thing, that was mentioned in it, was also the discussion, that when the next wave of noise comes, would it still be about harsh noise tapes? One could say that phenomena of people recording and releasing NOISE on tape has been around since early 80's. 40+ years. Of course before that too in context of experimental music, etc

What was being discussed is, and that kind of overlaps with above mentioned talk about possibilities of noise, is that when this current "wave" of noise starts to go lower as waves then to do, and next time noise starts to gain new momentum and new rise.. will it STILL happen in form of guys putting out 100 copies noise compact cassettes? Like.. lets assume.. 2040?

I think there was expressed that it seems unlikely. And furthermore, that there could (/should) be new ways of experiencing and listening to noise.

Without having gone back and listened to our actual conversation, I would say this is the essence of what we were discussing. It's a fascinating idea.

Noise does not need to be any more than it already is. It doesn't need to "progress", but it will surely evolve in its delivery methods.

Unrelated to the discussion above, which I hope to add more to, but:

I've now made the interview with Love Rosenström of OCHU available to the public, previously only available through Patreon https://youtu.be/3yLyQmvDkSo

My next podcast guest on Monday is Steve Underwood of Harbinger Sound.

If you appreciate WCN Podcast and want to be sure it carries on, support it! https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: WCN on June 16, 2023, 07:56:28 PM
Unrelated to the discussion above, which I hope to add more to, but:

I've now made the interview with Love Rosenström of OCHU available to the public, previously only available through Patreon https://youtu.be/3yLyQmvDkSo

My next podcast guest on Monday is Steve Underwood of Harbinger Sound.

If you appreciate WCN Podcast and want to be sure it carries on, support it! https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Nice, yesterday i was just thinking about how nice it would be to see that OCHU interview!

Quote from: Commander15 on June 16, 2023, 08:47:53 PM

Quote from: WCN on June 16, 2023, 07:56:28 PM
Unrelated to the discussion above, which I hope to add more to, but:

I've now made the interview with Love Rosenström of OCHU available to the public, previously only available through Patreon https://youtu.be/3yLyQmvDkSo

My next podcast guest on Monday is Steve Underwood of Harbinger Sound.

If you appreciate WCN Podcast and want to be sure it carries on, support it! https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Nice, yesterday i was just thinking about how nice it would be to see that OCHU interview!

Recently picked up a few OCHU LPs and was curious to learn more about the man behind the project. This was one of the higher-tier interviews that had me the most curious. Very much excited you released it to the public, thanks Oskar.

Already a supporter but may have to bump up to maniac level. A bit backlogged, but looking forward to the T.E.F. episode as well.

The Ochu interview was a real treat! I'm a fan of his work and it was really interesting to hear about the thoughts behind the project. Also nice to watch this kind of quality for a change compared to the webcam material.

In the Love interview, one thing that really resonated with me and I think about often, is going back and spending more time with older releases. Love says, "We all could reverse a bit, we should talk about stuff that's a few years old too. It's an artifact that you can use and listen to for quite some time."

I've been more consciously trying to listen to all new releases at least a few times before it goes on the shelf and spend time revisiting releases from even the year prior. The flow of new material is just so overwhelming, it feels like new releases are so quickly pushed to the wayside and never discussed again, even just a couple of months after release. One of the negatives of this currently flourishing productivity of the last few years. There is so much material, a lot of quality material, and it's extremely difficult to keep up with it all, actually spend time and absorb the material, and enjoy it over a length of time.

I think recently in the reviews thread, there have been quite a few posts about older releases which is refreshing. Would love to see more of this! What have we all put back on the shelf from the last few years too quickly and without discussing or spending enough time with?

QuoteOne thing, that was mentioned in it, was also the discussion, that when the next wave of noise comes, would it still be about harsh noise tapes? One could say that phenomena of people recording and releasing NOISE on tape has been around since early 80's. 40+ years. Of course before that too in context of experimental music, etc

What was being discussed is, and that kind of overlaps with above mentioned talk about possibilities of noise, is that when this current "wave" of noise starts to go lower as waves then to do, and next time noise starts to gain new momentum and new rise.. will it STILL happen in form of guys putting out 100 copies noise compact cassettes? Like.. lets assume.. 2040?

I think there was expressed that it seems unlikely. And furthermore, that there could (/should) be new ways of experiencing and listening to noise.

40 years, i wasnt there but seems to me that not much changed, except the computers / internet [see: communication, 'marketing' , editing, digital files] , and that already many years ago . An old wolf doesnt change his mind. You cant teach an old dog new tricks ... New dogs follow their parents' / pack example too. Minor changes may happen.

2040 ? As long there are tapes and decks it will still be 'limited to 100 cassettes' + CD + hm, i am not sure about vinyl. 17 years from now. It's not that far away, and i dont think any big new thing like PC / internet will happen. Though at some point i think we ll need a 'romantic' millionaire / company to invest [well, to decide to loose money in order to revive a forgotten technology, that was abandoned suddenly, and its secrets were discarded. If i remember well i had even read that the formula known brands had for making good tapes, this got lost too] in making a deck like the good ones from late 80s - early 90s. These machines will be 50 years old by then. Probably beyond refurbishment [?] or replaced with lesser quality materials degrading the performance.

I'm sure that in 2040 people will be nostalgic about what happened 20-25 years ago... pandemic noise will be celebrated and written about in the same way that we write about 1980s industrial or 1990s noise; obscure Soundcloud or Bandcamp releases will be given our current day equivalent of the Super Deluxe Edition treatment; books and PhD dissertations will be written about Discord groups, noise forums and social media; the more outrageous aesthetics of the alt-right and ctrl-left cultures will be sold to Generation C; the USB drive will be the new cassette and Sneakernet noise will get an ironic revival as what notions of privacy we still have increasingly disappears.

As for the "new" things: kids will be 3D printing ironic takes on retro 'Record Store Day' vinyl releases for a laugh; VR arena sets will be the norm as we sit in our pods, and what "real-life" concerts we still attend will often feature hologram projections of either real or computer generated performers on the same bill; insect-sized drones will replace smart phones as the current annoyance of day-to-day life; said drones will capture multi-sensory room scans that will be pirated and disseminated widely to the chagrin of what entertainment industries still remain; also, expect AI-generated "multiverse" discographies of artists past and present, and revolts against/celebrations for it in equal measure...

If you think that's bad, just think about what Generation E will have to suffer in 2060!

Quote from: theotherjohn on June 18, 2023, 10:54:38 AM
books and PhD dissertations will be written about Discord groups, noise forums and social media;

They already are, aren't they?

Quote from: Fistfuck Masonanie on June 17, 2023, 05:49:00 PM
In the Love interview, one thing that really resonated with me and I think about often, is going back and spending more time with older releases. Love says, "We all could reverse a bit, we should talk about stuff that's a few years old too. It's an artifact that you can use and listen to for quite some time."

This resonated with me as well. I've been trying to follow a "buy less, listen more" ideology for several years now, also consciously slowing down my own pace of releasing stuff. We're in this thing for life so there is no hurry really. And the releases shouldn't be disposable, the best records reveal new things about them still after several spins.

Quote from: Theodore on June 18, 2023, 04:00:51 AM

QuoteOne thing, that was mentioned in it, was also the discussion, that when the next wave of noise comes, would it still be about harsh noise tapes? One could say that phenomena of people recording and releasing NOISE on tape has been around since early 80's. 40+ years. Of course before that too in context of experimental music, etc

What was being discussed is, and that kind of overlaps with above mentioned talk about possibilities of noise, is that when this current "wave" of noise starts to go lower as waves then to do, and next time noise starts to gain new momentum and new rise.. will it STILL happen in form of guys putting out 100 copies noise compact cassettes? Like.. lets assume.. 2040?

I think there was expressed that it seems unlikely. And furthermore, that there could (/should) be new ways of experiencing and listening to noise.

40 years, i wasnt there but seems to me that not much changed, except the computers / internet [see: communication, 'marketing' , editing, digital files] , and that already many years ago . An old wolf doesnt change his mind. You cant teach an old dog new tricks ... New dogs follow their parents' / pack example too. Minor changes may happen.

I would say that tons of things have changed in 40 years. How noise is made, why noise is made, how noise is manufactured, distributed, packaged. Different variations of (even harsh) noise have gradually increased. In live noise activity, there is huge changes pretty much everywhere. All these things created vast changes into all levels of how "noise happens", even pre-internet. I would assume that idea of teenage years noise experiments being published as digipak CD's and multi-LP box-sets would have appeared almost unbelievable thing even merely couple decades ago. Of course, like I mentioned, if we consider experiencing and listening noise is only observed on level that you got stereo audio signal coming from headphones or speakers ... sure, reducing scope so tightly, surely noise is experienced and listened most often like that. As soon as you expand way of looking it, I think the huge constantly ongoing changes in ways noise comes very clear.

Perhaps also possibility of topic of its own, as it doesn't really relate to podcast... but just some thought:
I would also like to throw bold hypothesis about possibility that this many years of gaming culture, may have effected noise too? I mean with that, that I have sometimes feeling as if technically oriented sound crafting or things like toying around with digital modular systems etc has more in common with computer games than "art"? Sound crafting may be just fun exploration of what can be done with things you bought from particular company who manufactures these tools made for... some sort of gaming? Even the gamers might be loading the documentation of what they have been doing online, and people even watch them. How would it differ from stuff done by noise artists? I guess sometimes blurred line. It seems very common with modular scene, when sound making appears to be so fun, and so much of things to try and experiment, that several guys I have talked to have said they usually just play for fun. Not really record. No intent to make great album, but the fun of playing. Of course people do that with other instruments, but it feels there is the gaming quality in some of noise?

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 18, 2023, 06:29:13 PM

Quote from: Theodore on June 18, 2023, 04:00:51 AM

40 years, i wasnt there but seems to me that not much changed, except the computers / internet [see: communication, 'marketing' , editing, digital files] , and that already many years ago . An old wolf doesnt change his mind. You cant teach an old dog new tricks ... New dogs follow their parents' / pack example too. Minor changes may happen.

I would say that tons of things have changed in 40 years. How noise is made, why noise is made, how noise is manufactured, distributed, packaged. Different variations of (even harsh) noise have gradually increased. In live noise activity, there is huge changes pretty much everywhere. All these things created vast changes into all levels of how "noise happens", even pre-internet. I would assume that idea of teenage years noise experiments being published as digipak CD's and multi-LP box-sets would have appeared almost unbelievable thing even merely couple decades ago. ...

Dont know Mikko. I get your points and even if i didnt i wouldnt argue strongly against them since i wasnt there, neither i create. But, i have some thoughts. Maybe i play with the words here but i see these changes as a natural 'growth' / evolution of something that it was new and 'unshaped' , and minor [why noise is made, that would be a major, but i disagree that the whys have changed] . Using tracks in a DAW instead of 4-tracker, quicker communication / purchases, cheaper production prices for CD, etc. these are practicalities. These ofcource can / will change as long there is the wish and the circumstances allow it. I believe noise has reached maturity, it is not in a shaping process anymore. Has adopted what it wanted to adopt from PC / internet / technological boom. A question to help us predict the future would be : What we want to change in noise ? Do we see any relative discoveries possible ?

Why, who, how, one listens / makes noise are the core of the matter.

Why : I guess everyone has a different answer, if he has an answer at all. And it is like that from the beginning. Noise is untouched by markets, money, fame, lifestyle, our surroundings, 'coolness' . I like to think it as the last frontier of the sound explorer, the Valhalla dead warriors fallen in the battle against music go, the guerilla camp in the jungle for the unsatisfied, our sanity pill, the dictatorship sound totalitarians find shelter. You name it. All the whys are untouched. Our inner urge. Only. Whoever doesnt feel it anymore, leaves, cause there is nothing more for him here to make him having second thoughts.

Who : [Numbers just for the sake of talk] : 1/1000 that will listen to noise will like it or find it interesting. 1/100 of those who like it will follow it actively as fan or maker. - I bet percentage hasnt changed since the past. Just now with internet info is around, anything can be reached, even by pure luck, noise too, so fans are more than in the past, in more countries, more artists, more shows etc.

How : Ofcource guys doing this for decades have came to master their craft. New guys have potential to became better faster than the old guard did. But the core elements / instruments are the same. Mastering the technique, new technology, new experimentations led to different variations indeed, though i wouldnt be surprised if for every new variation there is a track in an old forgotten tape comp trying something similar. So it's useful here to ask : What technology, instruments, sound sources we need more ? Do we ? Change / innovation / discovery rarely comes when there isnt a need for it.
As for listening : still cassettes, CDs, vinyls. And digital. Still pretty much same sales [?] in analogy with the fan audience. Digital killed physical releases at many other genres. Not in noise.

Speaking of change is funny to see other genres' status. Rock, punk, hip-hop, heavy metal, techno. Started as underground, 'revolutionary' , 'alternative' , finally dead or mainstream or 'complicated' . Cause there were changes at their core, one way or another. - I often hear say that stagnation is death. Maybe. Also they call the constant change evolution. Yes. Pause two distant frames in the evolution stage. Fuck, that looks like mutation ! I choose stagnation in maturity. Noise is perfect as it is !

Dont take me too seriously, haha.

OUT NOW - Steve Underwood of Harbinger Sound on WCN Podcast !!! https://youtu.be/AVNfx2AzmBI

Steve Underwood is an international legend in underground music. He ran the eclectic UK based label Harbinger Sound, managed numerous bands, and was responsible for some unforgettable live events. He now resides in the town of Hastings, where he runs a record shop called Pressing Matters Records, and continues his involvement in the culture. He joined me at WCN HQ for an in person interview, which we continued on at his hotel during his visit to Cologne.

In the Patreon exclusive extended segments of this interview, Steve talks about the pros and cons of working with a major record distributor, the Sleaford Mods records, social media, and bootlegs, as well as his top 5 noise and experimental records of all time.

You can see all of that and much more at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Thank you for your support.

Quote from: Fistfuck Masonanie on June 17, 2023, 05:49:00 PM
In the Love interview, one thing that really resonated with me and I think about often, is going back and spending more time with older releases. Love says, "We all could reverse a bit, we should talk about stuff that's a few years old too. It's an artifact that you can use and listen to for quite some time."

I've been more consciously trying to listen to all new releases at least a few times before it goes on the shelf and spend time revisiting releases from even the year prior. The flow of new material is just so overwhelming, it feels like new releases are so quickly pushed to the wayside and never discussed again, even just a couple of months after release. One of the negatives of this currently flourishing productivity of the last few years. There is so much material, a lot of quality material, and it's extremely difficult to keep up with it all, actually spend time and absorb the material, and enjoy it over a length of time.

I think recently in the reviews thread, there have been quite a few posts about older releases which is refreshing. Would love to see more of this! What have we all put back on the shelf from the last few years too quickly and without discussing or spending enough time with?

I think there used to be some complaints formerly, why people always talking about OLD STUFF. Almost like it would be routine to ignore everybody new, all new interesting things, just talk about MB and Merzbow and then 10 years later everybody would talk how underrated that one noise artists was. Yeah, because everybody too busy talking of things we know, instead of things happening right now.

Still now, I think it is likely that problem is not lack of focus and talk about classics, but lack of discussion, critical evaluation and writing about noise in general. I know that I could do more. I only write about fraction of stuff I listen to. Generally noticing that I got half meter pile of noise CD's and tapes that is ready to be carried home and put into collection/shelves. Only couple % of stuff gets commented. Usually more time to comment things when sitting home, pulling out some old releases from shelves and just listening and appreciating them.

I think, at least for me, many good noise releases have a story behind them. Of course appreciate the sound itself, packaging, but there is also vastly bigger experience around some releases. This is big contrast compared to "just another good noise tape", which can be very good, but may not be irreplaceable part of personal noise history.

What Ochu says about the current flood of noise, and what people tend to say about the peak of covid noise, is a bit odd for me. Covid had barely impact on anything in my life. And flood of noise has been massive in many moments of history. Like thinking something like mid 90's. You check 93, 94, 96, 97... and so on and it feels like damn! Seems like Bloodlust, RRR/Pure, Slaughter, GROSS, Deadline, and so on, put out more stuff than labels do now. Thinking stuff like Pain Jerk as one example. 93-99 and he'd put out... about 80 Pain Jerk releases. I don't really know how many relevant noise artists these days churn out releases like that? It feels that now that someone makes 3 releases a year, people start to criticize that it's too many.

I suppose there is also changing nature of releases. When the way how stuff is released, marketed and sold, is kind of "Get it! now or never!", it is not like situation with hundred Whitehouse live action tapes you can either buy, buy later, or not buy at all, and Susan Lawly would never be like "MANDATORY MUST HAVE TAPE LIMITED TO".. A lot of stuff would be like that. RRR tapes, Open Wound, Zero Cabal, Nihilistic, Con-Dom, Sound of Pig, ... etc. It wouldn't matter if they have huge amount of things, when atmosphere around the publishing it, doesn't have atmosphere of production line of manufacturing disposable items?

My own experience when specific "flood of stuff" end, however, is barely ever been "great finally its over!". Instead, almost always I find myself missing that feeling. And thinking how great would be dozen more PURE/RRR cd's? How great to receive letter with handful of biz-card cdr's from Pac Rec? How great when F&V regurgitated out bunch of vile new tapes? etc etc..   Just like my feeling with Pain Jerk is not that he did way too much stuff and I don't have time for it.

I think former WCN podcast VOMIR interview had that good moment where he was being asked why this amount of limited tapes of pretty much same sound. He mentioned that it was never intended that some guy buys them all. Most tapes were tiny edition, and circulated to handful of guys in that part of scene. Next tape circulating to other part of scene/world. From standpoint of conventional music, emphasis is on making one good album and selling the same thing everywhere. With noise, it doesn't have to be like that. You can approach it like painting or collage art. Like how ridiculous would be demand for painter that stop painting these landscapes, I have seen that already and these others look pretty much the same and I can't buy all the same looking paintings of yours. Artists may ask why you'd be buying all my paintings? You can take a look if you want, but it's not for you to buy it all and own it all. This type of realization may suddenly set you free from the music album mentality. You got guys who just want the album, then there's the maniacs who'll collect every live bootleg, every rehearsal tape, every new special bonus track edition they can hunt down. Both approaches may be fine. Perhaps the latter ones can tell to the public which items are the very best of the best. Rest are for maniacs only.

Quote from: WCN on June 19, 2023, 07:04:19 PM
OUT NOW - Steve Underwood of Harbinger Sound on WCN Podcast !!! https://youtu.be/AVNfx2AzmBI

Steve Underwood is an international legend in underground music. He ran the eclectic UK based label Harbinger Sound, managed numerous bands, and was responsible for some unforgettable live events. He now resides in the town of Hastings, where he runs a record shop called Pressing Matters Records, and continues his involvement in the culture. He joined me at WCN HQ for an in person interview, which we continued on at his hotel during his visit to Cologne.

Good interview. Also good reminder how the brits are most difficult to keep track what they are saying, hah... Lots of good stuff in it. It feels that the importance of the noise gig organizer of that time isn't maybe clear. So much of gigs happened at certain moment and just about everybody from USA and bunch of European countries would have stories of Steve driving them around, sleepless and seemingly "uninterested".

He did accept Grunt in a lot of shows those years. Even fests and some touring too. Usually it was funny, that things like the looong Yankee Know How tour, it was just Grunt appearing like parasite on tour, playing when and if there would be time left to do so. Often not mentioned in gig ads, but just... playing if there was time. Often Americans would sleep in hotel rooms, and then Steve and myself in some filth infested punk commune, in bean bags in room with no lights. Nice, of course.
UK visits been often like that. At most memorable visits, instead of even someones floor, sleeping with homeless dudes at concrete hole under stairs somewhere in London etc, covered in newspapers to warm up...

I think latest Harbinger lathe being re-released is on Skuggsidan's side label Analogue Masters?

The "conspiracy theory" about big multinational record labels pushing the vinyl record prices up to alienate the people and pushing them back to digital streams... I would assume it barely is conspiracy, but simply something that happens as a consequence of their business? When corporation who is there most of all to make money, pay salaries of pretty damn huge staff and infra they have, I am sure they'll do vinyl ONLY, absolutely only because it is means to generate money. To generate money from product that can not be sold in huge mass, only way to do it, is to have high price. For underground label, putting out LP and wholesaling it with 1-5 euro profit or less, may be fine. Big corporation can think that unless this pays all the costs, all the salaries of people involved to make it happen and then generate decent income, it is just not worth to do? Not done out of charity or support or personal interest. Most people can imagine the math of publishing business that has sole intention to generate money.

Same is happening with CD's. As soon as there was news that "CD sales are increasing again", Universal / Sony announced year or couple ago that no mid price CD's anymore. Now all the back catalogue is either full price or "nice price", both being so expensive to buy that if you go to regular record store, CD will be 20 euro, unless bought from some discount campaign. I talked to representative of Sony and they mentioned that all steps of production are so expensive that price needs to reflect that. Small labels can make calculation that manufacturing is 2 euro, so let's sell at X euro. Bigger labels have entirely different way how it goes.

The 2 winning essays, describing the solitary noise experience, are now published in a public post on Patreon. They each won a Harbinger Sound LP, their choice of RJF or TRERIKSRÖSET!

I've also started working on a 2-3 (possibly more!) CD compilation representing the first 2 years of WCN Podcast, pairing new material from artists who have been guests with audio from their interview. Final lineup will be announced on October 18, but it's shaping up to be epic already, as you can imagine if you look at who has been a guest so far. This release will only be available to Patreon supporters, and it will only go into production once the Patreon reaches 300 members. 300 personalized copies for each supporter will be available. You can secure your copy and make sure it goes into production as quickly as possible by signing up and supporting today.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 20, 2023, 11:14:18 AM

Quote from: WCN on June 19, 2023, 07:04:19 PM
OUT NOW - Steve Underwood of Harbinger Sound on WCN Podcast !!! https://youtu.be/AVNfx2AzmBI

Steve Underwood is an international legend in underground music. He ran the eclectic UK based label Harbinger Sound, managed numerous bands, and was responsible for some unforgettable live events. He now resides in the town of Hastings, where he runs a record shop called Pressing Matters Records, and continues his involvement in the culture. He joined me at WCN HQ for an in person interview, which we continued on at his hotel during his visit to Cologne.

I think latest Harbinger lathe being re-released is on Skuggsidan's side label Analogue Masters?

This statement is correct. We are currently working on the final details of this re-release. Thus, any other activity from us is rather sparse, as we are working on several upcoming releases. We will probably close down our distribution business in the near future and dedicate ourselves to being just a label on a full scale.

Out now - Andrew Grant of THE VOMIT ARSONIST on WCN Podcast!!!

https://youtu.be/NdNkGNo27gY

Andrew Grant aka THE VOMIT ARSONIST is a Providence based powerhouse of bleak and cinematic death industrial, releasing deeply personal concept based works on labels such as Cloister, Malignant, as well as his own imprint, Danvers State. We had a down to earth discussion about his body of work, major influences, and upcoming activities - including two upcoming shows in California on September 29 and 30th, 2023. You can support Andrew directly through his bandcamp https://thevomitarsonist.bandcamp.com/ or by reaching out to him directly on IG at @thevomitarsonist to buy artist copies of his recent releases.

In the EXT. segment of this episode, we discuss Andrew's use of samples in his work, as well as a memorable show at the Borg Ward in Milwaukee, where DEATH JENK played with THE VOMIT ARSONIST. Andrew also shared a killer unreleased 26+ minute track with the Maniac's Circle.

All that and more at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Funnily I was just listening Vomit Arsonist couple days ago, pulling random CD from shelves and deciding to go for it - and liking it probably more than years ago when CD's kept coming out more actively.

Have talked with bunch of people about the kind of lurking downfall of physical noise thing. Somewhat similar discussion is here, being connected to why Danvers State label is on some sort of hiatus. One thing he is saying, is that trading no longer that good thing to do when you spend 10 bucks to ship out the tape. I have no doubts noise keeps going in morphed state. My assumption is, there will be less of self published or small labels that get their stuff into hands of distributors. Both because of it will be too expensive to get into distribution plus that there may be lack of actually existing distributors in first place. it is changes so much. If it is all about direct sale from someone bandcamp or big cartel, I am 10000% sure it simply cuts out large part of noise audience who feel that type of noise is not what they're part of it.
You often hear that "oh, but people still buy beer and...". Yeah, but a lot of people go to bar and see the 10-20 euro import craft beer and wonder what the hell I'm doing here? Is some sort of handjob from waitress included or what is this bullshit? And go grab 2-3 euro beer from store.


We have often discussed with people, what it is that most people have absolute difficult to list even couple new great releases. It ain't lack of new great releases. But is the lack of experience. Not even talking of virgin experience, the big wooowww of first being experiencing something. But I'd personally know as fact, that just listening SCATHING tape on Dada Drumming while typing this, and being blown away by the massive noise... it has a lot to do, with pulling out actual tape from the packaging, having waited the box from USA to arrive, consciously looking at the cover, blasting it via real stereo system.  I can't say this as a fact, but I would make strong hypothesis that the whatever noise one listened recently from bandcamp stream, the reason you don't remember it, and reason it never made strong mark to you, was that it simply didn't mean that much. It was just the same play button in identical lay-out of service, when you heard something you can't next day even remember what it was. All the actual communication, effort, anticipation, physical experience etc.  is absent?

In a way, more interesting questions than top-5 new noise, could be discussion why would it be so hard to mention even couple inspiring new things, unless one would flat out mention having not heard any new stuff that would be simple explanation. Maybe another thing is, that like is discussed in this episode, there seems to be growing caution, especially for legitimate artists, to do any name dropping. Just to not appear as fan boys. I would also assume it may be partially something that it has been analyzed people actually post about cool things they listen, not necessary the actual stuff they do listen. It may be odd side effect of social media, where you get likes and exposure for posting liked and appreciated thing. Rarity and commonly appreciated stuff. It shifts the way at least part of communication.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 04, 2023, 12:46:31 PM
I can't say this as a fact, but I would make strong hypothesis that the whatever noise one listened recently from bandcamp stream, the reason you don't remember it, and reason it never made strong mark to you, was that it simply didn't mean that much. It was just the same play button in identical lay-out of service, when you heard something you can't next day even remember what it was. All the actual communication, effort, anticipation, physical experience etc.  is absent?

This reminds me of some other arguments I've read for the viability of physical items over digital, like vinyl, that go along the lines of "I like to have something physical in my hands while I'm listening/having to put the record on and flip it over makes me work for the music" and so on. All the emphasis seems to be on this particular experience, and away from the actual music itself. I always thought that was strange. Understandable, to a degree. But ultimately, why is the actual sound just considered just another element of a whole experience, especially when all it is, is getting something to listen to?

A lot of the original innovators of Noise - The Haters, Macronympha, Merzbow, Con-Dom, etc - can all be found on Bandcamp now. For people who have never heard these projects before, just getting into Noise for example, I wonder if their experience with what they hear if it's only on Bandcamp is as you say? It makes no impression, they don't remember it, etc? I wonder if the missing component of actually listening to and liking that material really is the lack of the whole rigamarole of choosing, ordering, waiting, unwrapping, reading, putting onto the stereo and the rest.

Because, if that's so, then a question rises. Was that stuff really all that good in the first place? Stripped of the whole analog physical mystique, does the actual sound really rank all that highly? Or was everyone just bamboozled by having to go through the whole physical ritual of choosing, ordering, etc?

I'm going to make some guesses. I'm going to guess that no, the whole physical ritual did not enhance the listening experience, because it was and is still possible to order and get something you don't particularly care for. Also, because a lot of that innovative stuff was and is just great on its own, whether it's in a limited edition box set or on Bandcamp, or both.

I'm also going to guess that the whole physical ritual was more a time-and-place thing when the innovative stuff happened to happen. We've reached a point now where, I believe, there's not a lot more innovation happening in Noise, and instead there's a lot of duplication of old ideas. Hardly any wonder that anyone just going through Bandcamp may not be so inspired to hear stuff that's been done before, and better. I mean - how many junk metal projects does the world need now? Wall Noise projects? PE projects with grainy, photocopied graphics and ultra pornographic "content"? Just how many times can all these cliches and more be replicated before a listener thinks, look, this is okay and all but I'm going to stick with the originals because I can?

If there's nothing much to say about recent Noise, it's because there's nothing much to say about it. Not because it's just on Bandcamp or anything like that. But I've had to concede that younger ears and minds will have a newer, less experienced reception to Noise, so I wonder if their enjoyment of Noise is also dependent on the physical ritual, particularly in a time when, for the most part, it just isn't necessary?

I don't think there needs to be some either-or situation with liking just the sound or absolutely requiring somehow fancy (be it due to some kind of manual effort or just an expensive/luxurious result) or fitting packaging to accompany the sounds. No need to discuss absolutes, just acknowledging that these things might have some effect, whether one likes it or admits/acknowledges it. Similarly to how having to anticipate and build expectations for hearing something for weeks might make it a whole different approach to checking something out than clicking a link, skipping to the best bits and giving up when you don't find any in a few seconds as you are already being recommended a new thing to check out. Not that this would be some noise/music phenomenon as such, but just a modern online life thing in general. Stuck in a FOMO flow.

As imaginary examples, pixelized graphics or abundant typos (not due to language barrier but due to laziness) and such things that you can see even in bandcamp releases can make it easy to think that if the maker didn't care to put effort to that, does the same attitude apply to the sound as well. Having a negative initial attitude makes it way easier to skip looking into something or just give it less attention than it would deserve otherwise, especially now when there's just a ton of new noise coming out so one is quite likely not running out on things to check out at any moment. On the other hand, if the packaging (or digital graphics) seems somehow captivating, maybe it can lure you to check the sound more easier. But of course I have been "lied to" by neat graphics on a shit sound same as everyone else, so I'm not trying to sugarcoat that aspect of this.

Similar thing could be said about the difference between being recommended some release or artist by someone whose tastes you trust vs. being recommended something by personalized or un-personalized autoplay recommendations. You might like or hate it just the same no matter what way you found it, but it still is a different starting point.

You also have to keep in mind what some people and programs/services will absolutely censor or hide from you even though they know it'd be something you might find interesting. This applies to both graphics and themes. At some point bandcamp banned/deleted bands with unsuitable genre tags (I recall it was goregrind, after some related shooting incident I think?), no idea if they still have something similar going on. YouTube requires registration to see vids with too much swearing, lots of stuff on instagram requires registration to see, and so on. All this has an effect on what and how you come across, or CAN come across, and this will probably eventually have an effect what is being made as the wrong kind of thing might just get you automatically hidden from view. I have my doubts if all works by Con-Dom would be fine and approved to be uploaded to bandcamp for example - and if not, are new listeners getting introduced to the real actual Con-Dom in its entirety, or some tidied/tamed version. Physical media might be a bit more lenient in that sense.

Also there's the discussion of if you're glad with just the sound, or do you hunger for some concepts and ideas that extend beyond the sound that could be enhanced with visual or tactile elements, or would such things rather be a distraction. And again I am not trying to present these two approaches as opposites or somehow different in value or meaning, I am just saying that not all sound might get the same benefit (or take the same damage) from some certain graphical etc. solutions. Same goes for if you like noise, industrial etc. as some solitary treat, or if you see the social connections, discussion etc. as a vital and organic part on your involvement in it all. This could be linked back to the discussion on if one's perception to the heard sound would change if it was in fact made by some artificial intelligence instead of a person, but I think my message is already messy enough without going there too.

And of course some stuff just becomes iconic or easily recognizeable and starts getting positive and negative baggage. For example would Tokyo Anal Dynamite or Pulse Demon be the exact same if they had just blank white covers with the band name and title written in comic sans, or if there was just a pixelized photo of a rubber chicken on them?

So while I agree that any physicality and rituals might not be necessary, it can still be acknowledged that they might have different results. Not mentioning how digital and physical listening might happen on a wholly different quality sound systems or how a cassette dub can be way weaker compared to bandcamp audio, which are matters of laziness/conveniece or just bad luck. "It's a jungle out there."

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on July 05, 2023, 01:33:06 PM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 04, 2023, 12:46:31 PM
I can't say this as a fact, but I would make strong hypothesis that the whatever noise one listened recently from bandcamp stream, the reason you don't remember it, and reason it never made strong mark to you, was that it simply didn't mean that much. It was just the same play button in identical lay-out of service, when you heard something you can't next day even remember what it was. All the actual communication, effort, anticipation, physical experience etc.  is absent?

This reminds me of some other arguments I've read for the viability of physical items over digital, like vinyl, that go along the lines of "I like to have something physical in my hands while I'm listening/having to put the record on and flip it over makes me work for the music" and so on. All the emphasis seems to be on this particular experience, and away from the actual music itself. I always thought that was strange. Understandable, to a degree. But ultimately, why is the actual sound just considered just another element of a whole experience, especially when all it is, is getting something to listen to?

Like DBL says above, I think its not about either-or situation, but there is messy cross-over of many things. But, the physical noise culture, how I personally associate to it, leans towards industrial culture traditions and overall emphasis is not about merely getting something to listen to. The something is often very very very particular. Not something to listen, but something you just did not consume, but was result of either lifestyle, worldview, experience, life long bonds with people who apparently contribute something into your life (regardless are they really friends). I do not know many noiseheads who would be able to deconstruct noise from all what makes it culture, artform or life itself.

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on July 05, 2023, 01:33:06 PM
Because, if that's so, then a question rises. Was that stuff really all that good in the first place? Stripped of the whole analog physical mystique, does the actual sound really rank all that highly? Or was everyone just bamboozled by having to go through the whole physical ritual of choosing, ordering, etc?

Indeed, to deconstruct noise into to supposedly purest form, just the abrasive sound, and then assume we could evaluate it. Many noisemakers I know, do not only make "sound". The sound is part of something larger, and by deciding one wants nothing to do with the expression and experience, and merely "something to listen to", I do feel it is fine for them, but not for me.

Just like think of contemporary hardcore punk. As a guy, who likes many types of hardcore punk, I could drop top 5 any moment. All old titles. To drop list of top 5 recent days genre releases, would be vastly harder. Things I want from the genre, I do not see common in current genre. I could also instantly tell reasons what and why so. In noise, I could probably name drop top-5 tapes of this month, that I felt are pushing either their own expression further or expanding current expression further or their respective location further. Do they advance entire global noise genre, would remain to be judged later on.

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on July 05, 2023, 01:33:06 PM
If there's nothing much to say about recent Noise, it's because there's nothing much to say about it. Not because it's just on Bandcamp or anything like that. But I've had to concede that younger ears and minds will have a newer, less experienced reception to Noise, so I wonder if their enjoyment of Noise is also dependent on the physical ritual, particularly in a time when, for the most part, it just isn't necessary?

This would be good question to youngsters. I would however also put some context there, that album being on bandcamp may be different thing that stuff churned into bandcomp by default. Material that wasn't even meant to be anything else may be reason why it ain't so good. I would ask if they interest is pure the sound, or would it be, after all, based on a lot of interviews been listening to - a lot of people have abundance of thoughts over it. Not only sound, but they connect in many other ways. Starting from what the fuck is this to who the hell are these people making this sound, and eventually perhaps I got my 3rd collab tape out with guy from other side of world. And none of it was just something to listen to. It may have started from that, but when couple steps were taken, it no longer was something.

Like we could return into WCN podcast with mr Vomit Arsonist and mr Koufar doing collaboration based on No country for old men. The dude who just wants something to look at, or something to listen to, ain't the guy, who might be on route to turn all their visions based on former writing and expression, into something of their own, perhaps something that deeply effected themselves. I would assume.

Physicality, for me, is not really about "fancy packaging". It is noise as integral part of life, not as virtual experience. That can be said in internet forum, as said in beginning, it is not either-or situation. This forum, as it is, or I'd hope it to be, is the gateway to noise as physical life and even industrial-culture related worldview. It can cross over with play button in cyberspace, but it is absolutely opposite to "something to listen to".

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 05, 2023, 08:55:39 PM
absolutely opposite to "something to listen to".

You seem to be using that phrase in a different context than I was. Noise, or indeed any other musical or sound genre, is, at the end, something to listen to. I don't take that trivially, others might (and that's their privilege).

As far as the use and communication of ideas are concerned, that's all to do with the sound itself as well. At least, I'd hope so. I realise it doesn't always work as intended, but again, that should also be part of the whole process of putting something out for other people to listen to.

DBL is right about it not being an either/or situation, certainly in practice. I do find it odd, though, all the emphasis on the non-audio elements. That's just me, but I don't think I'm the only one (probably in a minority, though). To me, first and foremost, if I'm going to listen to Noise, I am going to listen to Noise. Everything else has become a poor second in my experience. Not that I don't have physical items I'm happy to have, but if the sounds themselves aren't up my ally I may as well throw out the vinyl or tapes or whatever and keep the packaging.

In fact, I think I brought this up before - have/are people just doing pure Noise objects? What I mean is, not stuff like t-shirts or the rest, but actual physical objects that are meant to be part of the whole Noise/Industrial scene/thing/whatever? Objects that aren't meant to be listened to, but...well, looked at, played with, fucked?

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on July 06, 2023, 06:32:58 AM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 05, 2023, 08:55:39 PM
absolutely opposite to "something to listen to".

In fact, I think I brought this up before - have/are people just doing pure Noise objects? What I mean is, not stuff like t-shirts or the rest, but actual physical objects that are meant to be part of the whole Noise/Industrial scene/thing/whatever? Objects that aren't meant to be listened to, but...well, looked at, played with, fucked?

Maybe some of the anti-records by The New Blockaders and others?  Perhaps also when The Gerogerigegege releases a broken tape or his pulled teeth/dentures at various times?

Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on July 06, 2023, 06:58:53 AM
Maybe some of the anti-records by The New Blockaders and others?  Perhaps also when The Gerogerigegege releases a broken tape or his pulled teeth/dentures at various times?

Ah, yes, anti-records. Quite forgot about them. Ron Lessard used to make them as well, didn't he? That definitely counts.

Didn't know that about Gero's dentures. Sounds appropriate.

I think it is partly question what is part of expression. As noise expression, I don't think it ever was "just sound".
As example, sometimes when I listen to rock music, I get hear someone saying that "you wouldn't listen that, unless there was such lyrics". Yeah, indeed! Exactly! It is not like rock music as a sound, would be complete. I ain't listening just the dumb repetitions of same chords over and over again, but the actual expression, that includes every detail in it - including lyrics, vocal style, context and authenticity of expression (or illusion of it).

Same way, noise itself, rarely just deconstructed sound of noise. Now, that noise sound can be made with gadget you bought for purpose of noise making, upload it into service meant for audio distribution, and post about it to anonymous mass who is after noise... it may be noise, but it is vastly different kind of noise than the noise where every step of the expression and communication happened in ways it had cross-over or to related expression. I know some can value is noise good, merely based on rejecting everything else than sound. Yes, it can be great. But even that great, can be even greater.

My hypothesis would be that IF the sound itself would be all that matters, we could listen the machine. We could just listen modular synth patch play itself. We could listen hour long HNW crackles with no touch of human hand. Some people do. I don't. And I doubt those materials, how good they are, never make into someones "best of ____" lists. It would appear to display, we usually appreciate the human mind, human interaction behind the art, and after recognizing the need of personality and physicality of maker, conclusion may be that level of physicality and interaction with maker benefits from more concrete involvement.  Not for everybody, sure, but I would put quite big bet on hypothesis that just like your top-5 noise gigs ever, won't be youtube streams, but something you attended to, effect of noise release via physical reality will have more profound effect than "found it from youtube".

Would be curious to see, if the podcast makers could get some questions from the artists and diehard noise heads about this type of matters. We'll see!

I have listened to hours of just pure sound and enjoyed it. Not perhaps in the same way as a "proper" Noise release, but that's the point, there are different ways and reasons to listen to sound. Which is why there wouldn't be a need for, say, ten hours of rain on YT being included in any Top 5 or whatever. I can dig a "carefully crafted" Noise release and ten hours of rain both, for different reasons.

I genuinely don't understand...meaning, I'm not being purposely obtuse...how, or why, grabbing something off bandcamp is any different than plopping on a record.  Of course, there's a difference if you only listen to digital on a phone or some portable device vs a stereo, but that's for another discussion and for other theories.  And I've also always been miffed by the idea that if you press something to vinyl etc it shows you care more about it or it has a greater personal investment than if it is only digitally available.  There are some mental gymnastics going on there that I cannot follow, and I don't word it that way to be insulting.  I just don't get it.  There's a different vision and different financial investment etc, but something inherently speaking to quality or spirit or dedication?  It takes a whole floor routine to dance that theory.  When we talk about classic releases, or at least when we try to talk about them, we're almost always, with rare exception, talking about the sound and/or spirit.  When we talk about something 50 years later, like Changez Les Blockeurs, we don't care that it was limited to 100 copies. When we talk about GO's Mind Control, we don't talk about the cool idea of having a negative on a printing plate glued to the cover.  Or an entire Zoviet France thread where maybe not one of us talked about packaging or format.  Cite any number of interesting or great packaging ideas.  Someone will sometimes throw in the packaging in a discussion, but really, the only thing that truly matters is the sound.  That's what we discuss.  That's what has created and held fast industrial culture, or whatever genre culture you'd like to substitute.  As much time and effort that has gone into the physicalness, it ultimately is an afterthought, and rightly so (if you ask me, and I love me some cool packaging and executed physical ideas).

This leads me to something that I have been thinking a bit about lately.  While I was not around in the time when industrial came about, reading about it and listening to others talk about it makes it seem like the 1980s, even 90s, had more of an industrial culture in and of itself, as opposed to being primarily a musical subculture.  Of course music was always a part (and a central part, at that), but there was also things like RE/Search doing books on Burroughs and Ballard, Taint/Mania originating out of an underground movie zine (if I remember correctly), Sotos, even looking back to Dada/Futurism (both arts movements combining music/performance with other modes of artistic creation), and so on.  Maybe the shift to being on Bandcamp compounds this "musicalization" of industrial/noise?

Of course, this forum itself also has an entire non-musical subforum filled with various permutations of other industrial artists and cultures both old and new...

Re: listening experiences, I suppose it's a bit like eating fine food off a paper plate, or drinking good whiskey out of a plastic cup... you're still enjoying the same thing, but the presentation or the receptacle feels "improper" somehow to the value/standards/privilege bestowed upon the experience. Of course, part of what should make Noise unique is that it should go largely against these fetishistic constraints, but with the passing of time it maybe has just become yet another collectible and commodified genre with its valuable trinklets. Most likely, that's due to it having such a limited audience/budget/availability of resources in the first place? And yet, the ubiquitous tools of this early culture like the C90 tape and the xerox machine (or more everyday objects like tin cans, chicken wire or pigs' ears) should mean that anyone could effectively assemble their own releases, using what is available at that given time. That's not discounting the sound aspect of the Noise itself with others blatantly borrowing or stealing other people' sounds to add to their own releases, and thus disrupting the importance of the Artist as sole creator. Thus, all noise releases should unselfishly just make up a small part of the larger body of Noise, which is the great work that deserves celebration. Noise as a Cathedral?

To get back to personal preferences, I do find it disconcerting that if I do listen to Noise via digital means, there is an overwhelming sense of distance and distraction involved. There is a level of sameness to looking at artwork via a screen that has multiple other functions not related to Noise or music surrounding it, and said artwork that's included with a release fits nicely into the same uniform size of a square thumbnail in the same place on the screen (you can thank the iPod for this commodity conformity). Similarly, there is too much ease with how I can quickly skip or scrub through a track on Bandcamp for example, or see the loud or quiet parts of a track through its waveform on Soundcloud (again, the iPod resulted in single tracks taking precedence over albums). The waveform aspect surely has had an effect with how people record something these days too; no more just pressing 'record' on a tape player, hoping for the best until you press 'stop' and then listening back to the results (or like with analog photography, using up a roll of film and then processing it to see how the photos turned out). It becomes more analytical than anything, like I'm watching jagged lines of prices on the stock exchange and seeing when something sold high or low. This level of pre-selection involved with digital means results in a search for ultra perfection; an ironic counterpart to the overabundance provided by unlimited digital resources that are not constained by older limitations like recording mediums by the minute, or recording studio time by the hour, or records or tape runs by the pound/kilogram or cubic yard/metre.

Which is why, personally, I prefer to experience Noise in a live setting - either watching/listening to it being made or making it myself with hands on equipment, or via a medium where the concept of duration is removed or out of your control. You don't know where it's going to go and you have no preconceived notions of how long is left (either by a reminder of what minutes/seconds have passed or are left, or what 'track' is now playing). Your hands aren't on a computer mouse or a keyboard, or your thumb resting on a phone's screen or a remote control.  You're not watching the tape heads spin smaller or larger (with the concern of the tape snapping), or the needle move ever closer to the label (with the concern of it bouncing or skipping), or the CD/phone/computer display show the track and time passed or left (with the concern of getting an obtrusive notification). It's just the Noise and you're as present in the moment as you can possibly be.

This week on WCN TV: WINCE - live at Resistor in Leiden, NL, July 8, 2023.

In support of STAR on his EU tour, alongside AWENYDD, SCHOCO MUNE and AMOS PELED, presented by Charnel Ground. Video and lossless audio of full WINCE set out now on WCN TV, available through Patreon.

Next week on WCN Podcast: Gabriele Giuliani of DEAD BODY LOVE.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Out now on WCN Podcast - Gabriele Giuliani of DEAD BODY LOVE!

https://youtu.be/TARhF2glORc

In this very special episode, I was joined by Gabriele Giuliani of DEAD BODY LOVE, a highly influential Italian harsh noise project from the mid 90s. He also did the projects DRIFT and DISCORDANCE, and was behind the label Less Than Zero, which was responsible for releasing many classics of the genre. In his first public appearance ever, Gabriele shares the story of his origins in a small town in Italy in 1995, to his prolific and profound run of underground activity, including details about his closest contacts and as well as revealing some of his mysterious recording techniques. Much of his essential catalog is currently being reissued on CD, giving a fresh generation the chance to discover his work in depth, so do yourself a favor and dig in.

On Patreon in in the EXT. of this episode, Gabriele tells about the time Marco Corbelli visited him at his home, his top 5 noise releases of all time, and more. For the Maniac's Circle, Gabriele shared a brand new harsh noise track, which is available for download. And for the Heavy Sponsors and Noise Fiends, I'm giving away a copy of one of the new reissue CDs free to each supporter with their next order at the WCN Mailorder. All this and much more at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Another excellent episode. I suppose many of us who feel little uncomfortable to talk in English, due limited vocabulary etc, don't realize how it may be easier for a lot of listeners. Italian accent English, great extra flavor, not problem at all!

Lots of neat little details of things, plus the hands-on display to how the DBL sound was made. Showing the exact 4-tracker, efx unit, and explaining the method. Been listening couple DBL cd's yesterday and the heaviness of the sound is rather extraordinary. Even if method is pretty much just all-at-max gain, that's what can do the trick.

Curious about the Kubitsuri 7". I don't think I have it. Same with bunch of other stuff from label. He put out couple Grunt items and while tape came out fast back in 1996, the 7" that was recorded 1998, took some years to come out. I think he had some sort of illness that caused him to take a break from label for some years. He has done releases later on too, but I suppose distribution is very minimal for most of releases. I would estimate not everything is listed at discogs either.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 19, 2023, 03:59:07 PMAnother excellent episode. I suppose many of us who feel little uncomfortable to talk in English, due limited vocabulary etc, don't realize how it may be easier for a lot of listeners. Italian accent English, great extra flavor, not problem at all!

Definitely true... Being italian understanding Gabriele was a piece of cake but in many occasions I had far less problems understanding non native english speakers than americans or britons (specially from the northern part)

Nevertheless I think Gabriele has a good english, surely better than most italians, and the podcast came out really well and interesting, especially on the technical side.

PS: the Whitehouse pictures shown during the podcast were taken by me at the IV Congresso Post Industriale (organized by Rodolfo from OEC) in 2007. Nice to see them here... hard to think 16 years have passed since then.
Line up was: DBPIT - Malato - Teatro Satanico - Bad Sector (video installation) - Black Sun Productions - Whitehouse

Another curious thing is, that DBL mentions that he didn't think, or realize he was doing something special and new with his noise. When he lists the Japanese artists who all are different from DBL sound (Hijokaidan, Merzbow, Masonna, Incapacitants,..) one could say each of these artist also had unique special sound. I do not know if notion of "doing something different" was even necessary in mid 90's, when generally the situation was that not so many projects sounded THE same nor was working with similar gear?

It would be curious to know how many back then intentionally both aimed to be, plus knew they were something different and perhaps relevant in 30 years? I would guess it needs more awareness of what is happening overall, to be able to consciously stand out of "mass".

Top-tier interview. Gabriele's English is great and he has no need to be self-conscious about it. I could listen to him talk all day, the two hours plus the extended section went by so quickly. Funny he has been so private for so long while having such interesting insights and stories to share. 

Trying not to repeat the topics covered so far, I also really liked his top 5 releases of all time, especially numbers 3 and 5, completely different and great albums. Number three in particular is an incredible and early precursor to noise that hardly ever get's mentioned lately or maybe in these circles.

Funny moment, Oskar's reactions to all of the incredible letters that Gabriele pulled out. "Incapacitants... Paper..." gave me a chuckle. How many can say they've received personal communications from Mikawa?

Absolute treat, thanks Oskar.

Out now - "Responding To The Comments"

Solo episode where I addresses some of the questions and comments on the podcast from across the internet, including here on the SI board. Officially belongs to WCN TV, and may be removed from the public channel and put on Patreon in the near future.

https://youtu.be/q-w6YS8vYAE

Nice! Also very good news on Greh and Gaya. Mentioned few times that it would be great to hear Noisextra folks talk about their own things, more detailed of their own history.. even if documenting other peoples noise of course is important. Curious to see what comes from Greh!

Also, I would not mind more of the Q+A episodes. Even if podcast folks would not consider themselves as authorities of genre, I would consider them getting "interviewed" by the listeners once in a while, not bad idea.

The discussion of what more and what possibilities harsh noise would have brings couple easy examples in form of sound of breaking wood or sound of breaking stones. They both indeed are less popular than metal junk, which in deed is like the electric guitar or noise. I still don't see that it would drastically changes what is harsh noise as we have plenty of examples of it. I mentioned at youtube comments that its kind of shame (and mostly my own fault) that ENTITIES album never came out. Jerman + Brucato project, that had full album of breaking-wood harsh noise. I read from Jeph Jermans book that some clips of that album was recycled on his own CD on WCN. Perhaps someone should try to ask Jeph if he got the audio. I have been unable to locate master CDR after all these years. Label who can proceed with it would be encouraged to do so if you get permission from artist(s).

Stone noise, I would shamelessly name drop KSNK "Murska" CD. One can always say it is not harsh noise per se. Yep, it is not the distortion pedal harsh noise. It is noise of breaking crushed stones. The machinery that crushes stones and the actual sound of stones crackling into smaller stones. Somewhere in lines of older The Haters, Vivenza and such, but really a noise album. If it would not appear harsh, one could only conclude one listens with too low volume? hah..

Of course it is possible that what it is really meant, I don't "get it" quite right.

I would guess what I said before on topic, to me it merely seems that if we surround ourselves with specific approach of noise, it can prevent us seeing the other type of noise that is out there. If albums are not reviewed, artists not interviewed, distributors not carry, gig organizers not inviting,.. it is very likely we do not get exposed to the other approaches of noise that probably do exist?

the Dead Body Love interview was excellent in many ways, but I must say it's really disappointing that he's using AI art for his re-issue covers. If you look closely at the recent art for "Horrors of the Human Body", it looks like total shit and the concept could have been executed far better by a real artist. I just hope this doesn't become a new trend in noise or any other music genre for that matter. It's completely lazy and soulless.

Quote from: vegasfountain on July 25, 2023, 03:28:35 AMIt's completely lazy and soulless.

Almost as though it were coming from a dead body.

I'm not much of a forum writer these days, but I have to say that both the Dead Body Love and the solo episodes were really good.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 24, 2023, 08:43:24 PMStone noise, I would shamelessly name drop KSNK "Murska" CD. One can always say it is not harsh noise per se. Yep, it is not the distortion pedal harsh noise. It is noise of breaking crushed stones. The machinery that crushes stones and the actual sound of stones crackling into smaller stones. Somewhere in lines of older The Haters, Vivenza and such, but really a noise album. If it would not appear harsh, one could only conclude one listens with too low volume? hah..

Of course it is possible that what it is really meant, I don't "get it" quite right.

I would guess what I said before on topic, to me it merely seems that if we surround ourselves with specific approach of noise, it can prevent us seeing the other type of noise that is out there. If albums are not reviewed, artists not interviewed, distributors not carry, gig organizers not inviting,.. it is very likely we do not get exposed to the other approaches of noise that probably do exist?

That KSNK album is an truly outstanding  and definitely on top my "top releases of 2023"-list. It really does exhibit the sonic possibilities that are present in organic materials as either primary sound sources or in synthesis with man-made industrial tools.

Quote from: vegasfountain on July 25, 2023, 03:28:35 AMthe Dead Body Love interview was excellent in many ways, but I must say it's really disappointing that he's using AI art for his re-issue covers. If you look closely at the recent art for "Horrors of the Human Body", it looks like total shit and the concept could have been executed far better by a real artist. I just hope this doesn't become a new trend in noise or any other music genre for that matter. It's completely lazy and soulless.

I disagree. I have been playing with AI for quite a bit now in various forms for the past 5 years, and yes, there are limitations, but I'm enjoying exploiting those limitations and using them as a jumping-off point. I can spend a day tweaking text and trying to push the AI to generate absurd images, which I personally find less lazy than photocopying a violent porn image or ransom note styled liner notes.

Obviously there's been bad art over the decades too, a whole slew of early 90s digital art across all genres, I can think recently of a tape series for sale on Old Europa (don't know who did it) with atrocious art of digital inversions/mirroring of current reissues.

But there are some releases that are amazing with horrible art(hallway of the gods by LPD comes to mind) just as there are releases that are totally cringey on some level that are great, particularly black metal being a genre and aesthetic I often can not take seriously, dudes in leather thongs in the forest? Graveland and Burzum dressed as a larpers? AI art will probably exist in that spectrum of glorified releases with bad art on some level.

Laziness in noise has always existed too, shit someone just posted another 18 hour wall digital download for 30 euro that I doubt anyone will buy and anyone that does won't listen (and it joins hundreds of others of releases in that same category)...doesn't matter what it is, AI noise, AI art, lazy transgression. It'll always be released by people who I suppose think it's easy, or ironic, or ego focused inward interest projected outwards. The market will sort it out.

Quote from: Confuzzled on August 04, 2023, 04:41:39 PM

Quote from: vegasfountain on July 25, 2023, 03:28:35 AMthe Dead Body Love interview was excellent in many ways, but I must say it's really disappointing that he's using AI art for his re-issue covers. If you look closely at the recent art for "Horrors of the Human Body", it looks like total shit and the concept could have been executed far better by a real artist. I just hope this doesn't become a new trend in noise or any other music genre for that matter. It's completely lazy and soulless.

I disagree. I have been playing with AI for quite a bit now in various forms for the past 5 years, and yes, there are limitations, but I'm enjoying exploiting those limitations and using them as a jumping-off point. I can spend a day tweaking text and trying to push the AI to generate absurd images, which I personally find less lazy than photocopying a violent porn image or ransom note styled liner notes.

At least you are doing actual work when photocopying an violent porn image or assembling the ransom letter.

Quote from: Commander15 on August 04, 2023, 05:33:15 PM

Quote from: Confuzzled on August 04, 2023, 04:41:39 PM

Quote from: vegasfountain on July 25, 2023, 03:28:35 AMthe Dead Body Love interview was excellent in many ways, but I must say it's really disappointing that he's using AI art for his re-issue covers. If you look closely at the recent art for "Horrors of the Human Body", it looks like total shit and the concept could have been executed far better by a real artist. I just hope this doesn't become a new trend in noise or any other music genre for that matter. It's completely lazy and soulless.

Again there's a difference between taking a something from a computer and slapping it on a cover or

I disagree. I have been playing with AI for quite a bit now in various forms for the past 5 years, and yes, there are limitations, but I'm enjoying exploiting those limitations and using them as a jumping-off point. I can spend a day tweaking text and trying to push the AI to generate absurd images, which I personally find less lazy than photocopying a violent porn image or ransom note styled liner notes.

Quote from: Commander15 on August 04, 2023, 05:33:15 PM

Quote from: Confuzzled on August 04, 2023, 04:41:39 PM

Quote from: vegasfountain on July 25, 2023, 03:28:35 AMthe Dead Body Love interview was excellent in many ways, but I must say it's really disappointing that he's using AI art for his re-issue covers. If you look closely at the recent art for "Horrors of the Human Body", it looks like total shit and the concept could have been executed far better by a real artist. I just hope this doesn't become a new trend in noise or any other music genre for that matter. It's completely lazy and soulless.

I disagree. I have been playing with AI for quite a bit now in various forms for the past 5 years, and yes, there are limitations, but I'm enjoying exploiting those limitations and using them as a jumping-off point. I can spend a day tweaking text and trying to push the AI to generate absurd images, which I personally find less lazy than photocopying a violent porn image or ransom note styled liner notes.

At least you are doing actual work when pjotocopying an violent porn image or assembling the ransom letter.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I have no issue with using AI as a starting point and manipulating the fuck out of it (printing, degenerative photocopies, etc.), but I do take issue with using an AI image as is and slapping it on a cover. I use it as a starting point or for visual reference, manipulating my text prompts, usually to the point where the AI cannot create what I see in my mind. I do have an issue with using someone else's material without giving credit, whether it be AI or porn or whatever. 

OUT NOW: Gaya Donadio of ANTICHILDLEAGUE

Gaya Donadio has been a pillar of the London noise and industrial scene for over 20 years, organizing gigs with a wide range of legendary and seminal underground acts, and performing and recording with her very personal Power Electronics project ANTICHILDLEAGUE. In this interview, we discuss her history and philosophy as an artist and organizer, the importance of freedom of expression, as well as the attacks she has endured for her activities, including the recent cancellation of her UK tour with THE RITA.

https://youtu.be/s12QBBYj3Y8
https://youtu.be/s12QBBYj3Y8
https://youtu.be/s12QBBYj3Y8

In the Patreon exclusive EXT. segment, Gaya shares more personal details about her activities, talks about her favorite gigs she put on, and more.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Importance of Gaya for london industrial noise live scene is so big, I guess in patreon part there may be further details about it. When you think what did happen +-20 years ago in some country in live gig scene, that part of history tends to disappear more than physical releases. You could list ton of artists she welcomed at gigs. Slogun, Control, SKM-ETR, Grunt, Cloama, Sickness, Emil Beauliea, Prurient, The New Blockaders,... well, just to name some. Considering that like she said, there was occasionally twice a month events, a lot happened that isn't anywhere really documented. I remember going in UK just as a noise tourist, catching first couple nights of Death In June gigs, and then couple nights of power electronics / industrial / noise.

ACL as project, like she says, has only gotten better over time. The new stuff is really good, and anyone who heard older, even the decade old CD's, is encouraged to check out the newest, noisier and dirtier works!

The "cancellations" discussion is kind of expected due recent incident. I am sure she would have way more nastier things to tell from the past. It is curious that Oskar mentions that maybe a way to fight the cancel culture is to cancel those people.. hmm.. well, I am thinking that's already in that cycle and results are less flattering. Perhaps simply accepting that in culture that is diverse in tastes and approaches, you also got realistic chances that you'll face problems. If something is broken beyond possibility to heal, you'll just have to learn to cope with it.


One funny thing is that now I got to see first time automatic subtitles on. They did create some unintentionally funny moments, like when Gaya mentions she did something with Schräge Musik, auto subtitles write that as "swagger music"! hahaha!




 

OUT NOW - NOISE ON THE RUN - Noise Errands

In this episode, Oskar moves around downtown Cologne on a busy Saturday afternoon - printing J-cards, appropriating designs for new WCN sportswear, and sharing some thoughts. Out now of WCN TV through Patreon!

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Trailer: https://youtu.be/bg37lkBgASo

"Long ass centipede down the leg"

Greh Holger has been a pillar of international noise since the early 2000s, running the prolific label Chondritic Sound, recording and performing heavy synth-based noise as HIVE MIND, and being an admin of the iheartnoise message board, a community space that was essential to the noise scene at that time. Since then, he has stayed active with his label, numerous recording projects, and formed Noisextra Podcast, a show that is a staple of contemporary noise media. It was great to be able to put Greh on the other end of the interview process and pick his brain about his history and activities.

https://youtu.be/YyBTgPa4tfQ
https://youtu.be/YyBTgPa4tfQ
https://youtu.be/YyBTgPa4tfQ

In the Patreon exclusive EXT. to this interview, Greh goes into detail about the synths, gear, and recording techniques he uses HIVE MIND and BLACK SAND DESERT. Greh also shared download codes for his most recent HIVE MIND album Elysian Alarms with the Maniac's Circle, as well as an exclusive live recording of BLACK SAND DESERT, from August 19, 2023 at Coaxial in Los Angeles.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

It is one of the best interviews. I think I mentioned repeatedly to Noisextra guys that while they have done huge job for noise culture with podcast and like Greh here kind of mentions that "people hear too much of me", in reality, I would guess we never heard Greh interview like this? And as Noisextra is meant primarily for the 90's and older, what he has been doing starts right where their usual coverage ends.
There are so many different points that could be commented and so many topics that would be good to return in future interviews.
Man talks very openly about the problems of life in past, including the first year in LA. Everybody being pissed off about not getting orders and Greh being homeless couch surfing, living on foodstamps trying to get by. Of course customers will be mad anyways, but certain situations one may understand why it is happening. Good story of Wiese being catalyst of "lets get it done" -days, just meet and get some collective energy to assemble releases and ship them to people you owe them.

Talk about the splintered scene, in ways of nowhere exists forum like Troniks/Chondritic forum was. We got couple forums, sure, but all different chat services and platforms. messanger, whatsup, telegram,.. fb, ig, x, twitch, discord, youtube, reddit, whatever... Tons of small private circles of people using their preferred platform, and everything splintered in a way that the sense of "something big happening" and somewhat centralized information.  He mentions opening forum now would be difficult. May be. I would guess it became harder after the "real" social media took over. This also changed nature of forum. I don't think forums could be what they used to be before social media. Just like TAPE now is not what it was in 80's or 90's. Neither is CD or LP. Even if these formats are no longer only viable option to spread noise, I think their role is not less important. Just like you wouldn't expect 1000x noise CD spread into scene like wildfire and everybody knowing and owning it, you got the "CD crowd", just like you got the "forum crowd" who appreciate certain qualities that format allows. Lets say, like where would you find discussion about noise podcasts if not forums? I don't know, but I have been told by others that there is no discussion at IG or FB or such. You may got hundreds, if not thousands of followers, but no actual discussion? Forums may not be THE most popular and THE most followed information source, but it has some good properties why they remain relevant. This is the thing I wouldn't necessarily agree on notion of industrial-noise artists taking the new ways of expression into use.

It is fact, that all the tech and "platforms" that was used by noise / industrial / experimental, and true it was once the latest new tech and welcomed with open arms. But, I will strongly suggest, that it was also because it was GOOD and POSITIVE and kind of in-spirit-of expression itself. Now when artists fetishize c-cassette, vinyl LP, compact disc, vhs tapes, or whatever supposedly for nostalgic reasons, I don't think it is entirely true. I would suggest that at least part of it, is not due nostalgic reasons, but simply because many of qualities are simply unbeatable. They may be also still the revolutionary expression, that embodies the spirit of independent creation. (Like Greh sighs about twitch service that yeah, now its owned by Amazon, not ideal place, but that's the reality one got to live with)  Indeed, one would think as industrial noise creators, welcoming the new tech and new possibilities and new platforms is good, but as easy example one can conclude that atleast fraction of our culture can not be there. It is counter productive and changes the nature of expression into some sort of compromise. For some it is advancement, for some this shift would appear as step backwards. When artists already decades ago got out of the suffocating grip of corporation dictating what and how to do, I wouldn't necessary like idea of entering into world of regulations and feeding corporate business models.  Of course fully acknowledging many people do not care, nor they are effected in any way.

From my perspective, some supposedly "nostalgic ways" or still the route that leads forward into better direction. For interaction in the physical world, human interaction, the necessity of hands-on-approach and tactile qualities of expression, there simply is not replacement for some of these things. Indeed, one can make fb live stream, but it is not "noise gig" like is the collective, almost ritualistic meeting of fanatics. Some sort of noise objects and culture that builds around it is VASTLY different from someone announcing he got 100 HWN files at bandcamp.

My assumption, is also, that despite Greh is very very international character. Huge spokesman for Japanese noise, big promoter of euro heavy electronics, admirer or original power electronics, far more educated in experimental synth and rhythmic stuff that I could be...   When discussion is for example what caused the downfall of noise at some point, he does analyze it very much from USA perspective? There certainly is peak every time that some bigger label threw money in. At some point Relapse. At some point Subpop. etc. He concludes it is just matter of people coming and going, and tends to happen in waves. Which is true, but to me it appears as if the waves are somewhat localized. Or used to be. Tesco stuff suddenly would not be the hot seller of RRR and Ron mentioning that you used to be able to move any euro heavy electronics in blink of an eye, but suddenly its new wave of USA noise that sells. Despite the "downfall", Tesco pressed more than ever, selling more than ever? Sweden flourishing bigger than ever, Denmark having huge wave of activity. Lithuanian festivals, Poland having labels flooding countless releases. Even after Vulcaning Tongue and such falling down UK continued with several labels, distributors, gigs etc for years. Not all harsh, but noisy nevertheless.
The longer one is around, the waves format of scenes is obvious. Still it is not something that is global phenomena and it would feel neat that we just check out what is currently happening, how to advance good things in it. I think that was how the waves originally happened. Like the flourishing Japanese noise scene could have been something enjoyed by 20 locals attending to gigs and buying tapes, but there was people are distributors who wanted to get involved and suddenly dozens of labels worldwide would be putting out new interesting Japanese noise, making it worldwide phenomena. Or work of Relapse and Subpop etc. I doubt the really created anything per se, just noticed there was something great going on, and thought this would be great to promote and distribute. And organizers feeling we need to get these artists play shows etc.

To me it always seems to be that there is merely someone who feels "this is too good to remain unnoticed, I got to tell my friends and anyone I can reach".

This would be perhaps also idea for podcasts. As opposed to emphasis on artists career, like what would be like "currently happening in Japanese noise" -episode! I would suggest people to visit for example Scream & Writhe forum and mr. Junkyard Shaman writing message after message about current Japanese artists and thing happening there. Of course making episode of him as artist could be good, but also theme of lets tell something to people when very few seem to know what is happening. Some may still assume there is quiet times over there, but when talking to some specific Japanese guys, they are saying scene is living one of the busy peak moments as we speak!

Excuse the non twitter length feedback, hah... advantages and dangers of forums. The Wall of text...

As addition, it is funny moment when there is the discussion about TAINT and his live shows. Driving 3 hours to see 5 minute set consisting sample and some simplistic electronic noise and that's that.
I recall Keith mentioning back then that "he likes to disappoint people". Greh is describing in excellent way how there would be all these expectations and kind of wish there would be 200 people and Taint blasting some classic songs from his best releases.. but no. One of most amusing shows I have seen from Taint, I guess one out of four gigs, was him starting the audio. Letting the dialogue go like 2-3 minutes and then just shutting off gear. No noise. Nothing. Just the spoken piece that was later published as Nicole 12 "Pony". That is basically "a Taint cover". His entire set from Boston. He mentioned that what he could have done? Control floored everything. Bloodyminded was utmost PE "rock group" wildness, Prurient blasted high energy feedback and screams set, Slogun being intimidating. Grunt etc still to enter the stage. There in the middle, he'd just throw an utterly obscene sample and that's that. "Liking to disappoint people", but perhaps only if you expect kick ass noise. He appears more like that different type of noise, where noise show could be 20 sec scream and jump (Masonna), standing still waiting people to abuse you (Mattin), just playing video piece of news collage and electronic tone (MK9), Cock ESP falling to pieces in 10 seconds...  and so on... not there really "entertain" with guaranteed money worth.. hah...   It would be interesting discussion if this live noise changed exactly because it is played for noise audience, who travels to see things with expectations and expression that kind of builds around this climate. How different it is from noise happening for example locally and perhaps frequently. Meaning that artists could just go on and do thing without unconsciously thinking "there is that guy that travelled across to world to see it.. maybe I should do something else than play loop while squirting enema" (remembering some report of earliest Coil shows).. unless, you like to disappoint audience!

I did not want to quote your thoughtful response FreakAnimalFinland, But I agree that the US seems to have a more splintered faction when it comes to taste, and culturally, it has been flooded with dissent and unrest since 2016. In our defense, we are only 245 years old and essentially the globe's petulant child. The US is rife with a "what's new" mentality. Everything tends to be disposable because nothing is made to last. I see shows and festivals overseas where the noise act is never larger than the audience. People are more courteous at shows and see noise as "art." It would be nice to have that movement here but it doesn't happen for whatever reason.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 22, 2023, 12:02:41 PMI recall Keith mentioning back then that "he likes to disappoint people".

A French Noise perv I'm acquainted with online told me of a gig where he organised for Taint to perform in Paris. Apparently, Keith went out that day, got drunk, found a skinhead and convinced him to come and help him play this gig which wasn't much more than just farting around in front of the crowd. I was told that Keith's apparent intention was to wind up what he regarded as French "intellectuals". Never having been to a French Noise gig myself, I don't know how intellectual such a crowd would have been. Presumably, too intellectual for Taint. Was told Keith was paid quite well for that one, too.

Greh interview had me nostalgic for the halcyon days of chondritic/troniks. That forum, for better (and sometimes worse), was very formative for me. I miss it.

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on August 24, 2023, 01:31:19 PM

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 22, 2023, 12:02:41 PMI recall Keith mentioning back then that "he likes to disappoint people".

A French Noise perv I'm acquainted with online told me of a gig where he organised for Taint to perform in Paris. Apparently, Keith went out that day, got drunk, found a skinhead and convinced him to come and help him play this gig which wasn't much more than just farting around in front of the crowd. I was told that Keith's apparent intention was to wind up what he regarded as French "intellectuals". Never having been to a French Noise gig myself, I don't know how intellectual such a crowd would have been. Presumably, too intellectual for Taint. Was told Keith was paid quite well for that one, too.

Well... this is the deadly actions show. The "skinhead" was Bessac of Kickback and it was me who did most of the sound as Keith did not bring anything else than 3 pedals with him. Hah... That entire trip was fairly memorable.

"Tara is great at looking up stuff, like words [...]"

Well, but the track title "Kachexie" by Anenzephalia isn't Chinese, it's German. And it sure as hell doesn't mean "plough" or "tractor". Can't remember exactly what she said, but it was just plain wrong, even stating again that she's right after Greh showed a bit of doubt.

Quote from: Fanalstatt on August 30, 2023, 10:15:41 AM"Tara is great at looking up stuff, like words [...]"

Well, but the track title "Kachexie" by Anenzephalia isn't Chinese, it's German. And it sure as hell doesn't mean "plough" or "tractor". Can't remember exactly what she said, but it was just plain wrong, even reassuring her co-hosts that she's right after Greh showed a bit of doubt.

It's a medical term from Old Greek meaning "in poor condition". It's a syndrome of various serious/deadly diseases where the body is extremely weakened. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kachexie

Exactly. And it's not even hard to look up.
I am referring to the Noisextra episode about Anenzephalia's "Ephemeral Dawn", if anyone wonders.

Quote from: Phenol on August 30, 2023, 11:49:32 AM

Quote from: Fanalstatt on August 30, 2023, 10:15:41 AM"Tara is great at looking up stuff, like words [...]"

Well, but the track title "Kachexie" by Anenzephalia isn't Chinese, it's German. And it sure as hell doesn't mean "plough" or "tractor". Can't remember exactly what she said, but it was just plain wrong, even reassuring her co-hosts that she's right after Greh showed a bit of doubt.

It's a medical term from Old Greek meaning "in poor condition". It's a syndrome of various serious/deadly diseases where the body is extremely weakened. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kachexie

isn't that also called "foot and mouth disease"?

Glad my Taint question was in there (thanks Oskar). That show has always been a mystery to me and it seems like none of the older dudes around here have any memory of it happening or know who booked the gig. I always just assumed it was the guys from Flutter. And I'm pretty sure which coffee shop it was but that has been closed now for several years. Same place use to host all kinds of eccentric events from open mic poetry to mud wrestling burlesque stuff. Pretty seedy part of town back then and I'm sure Keith interacted with some of the bums/hookers that often walked the area. Nowadays it's art galleries and restaurants. Hopefully one day those pictures Greh mentioned will get posted somewhere -- would love to see it!

Something different this week on WCN Podcast! On the last weekend of each month, we have a video party, where previous podcast guests and Patreon supporters get together to talk about noise and whatever else comes up - a gathering I look forward to dearly each month. After my planned guest for today cancelled last minute, I decided I'd share the recording of our meeting! You can join in on the next one by supporting WCN Podcast on Patreon.

WATCH the WCN Video Party: https://youtu.be/Laz2CvCzDEE?si=j0Qa0bPAOTHtV3bB

OUT NOW - AFTERBLAST: Jon Engman of CUSTODIAN

CUSTODIAN IS BACK. Jon Engman is well known for his long involvement in extreme music - as a drummer for death metal bands such as Brodequin and Foetopsy, and for his cold crushing harsh noise project CUSTODIAN, which has sadly been on hiatus for the past several years. Now with new releases on the horizon and a tour in Japan next spring culminating in the Machine Parts 2 Festival in Tokyo, Jon and I caught up about what he's been up to since we last talked on the podcast, and what this current incarnation of CUSTODIAN is all about.

Full episode on WCN TV, available through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
Preview the episode: https://youtu.be/WrVUctpOnBM

OUT NOW - Jim Haynes on White Centipede Noise Podcast !!!

Jim Haynes flawlessly conjures the sounds of magnets, motors, and raw electricity in his heavy industrial noise compositions that are simultaneously austere and evocative. Rust, both as a methodology and a philosophy, explicitly permeate his sound and visual works. In this interview, Jim discusses his recent work, shares stories of his involvement in the San Fransisco sound art world, details on how he does what he does, and touches on the ultimately very human essence of his work. Explore his works as well as his eclectic label The Helen Scarsdale Agency at https://helenscarsdale.bandcamp.com/

https://youtu.be/U0U0LJ4b7YA?si=wfwWdehdMQIc-bga
https://youtu.be/U0U0LJ4b7YA?si=wfwWdehdMQIc-bga
https://youtu.be/U0U0LJ4b7YA?si=wfwWdehdMQIc-bga

In the Patreon exclusive EXT. segment of this interview, Jim tells about his complicated personal relationship to the late artist Zbigniew Karkowski, and lists his top 5 noise and experimental releases of all time, as well as his 5 favorite contemporary non-noise musical artists. For the Maniac's Circle, he also shared the unreleased track "The Nervous System Deprived of Oxygen,
Version One" from the forthcoming CD "Inconsequential," to be released on White Centipede Noise this winter. All that and much more at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Good episode. Feels like there are the slower moments and then.. getting into point. Some of curious elements are the way Haynes appears to be at the same time in "contemporary art music scene" and the "noise scene". Material certainly fits the both, in ways that it is good in both categories.
Some talk about the industrial - what it means to Haynes etc.

Not long ago I bought his LP from Ukrainian label. Label can still ship orders and he got other good stuff too, so anyone wanting directly support Sentimental Productions, this album (and other label stuff) is very recommended and finances most likely in need!

I finally got to listen the latest group chat. When it came out, listened perhaps first 30 mins and felt like it ain't going really, and listening on the background while not watching who is talking is little confusing at times. But now decided to listen rest of it and there are moment. They get to talk on various things, and Final Solution Ed getting into funny rant.

Acoustic metal junk gets mentioned and Evil Moisture mentions there is a good compilation on Freak Animal about acoustic junk metal... and now that I think of it, I wonder would he mean actually Perdo Omnis, Sonno Ferrum or such? Not FA title, but sold by me of course. I have HAD idea of acoustic noise comp, but it didn't materialize unless I got some sort of memory damage, hah..  Those two tape comps are really good. I have vague recollection one guy has still big pile of them in storage and I'll try to get my hands on them.

Another funny moment is when they talk about one guy dropping out of noise due "sketchy stuff", and Nicole 12 gets mentioned. Now that project has been dead pretty much as long as it was alive, it is amusing to see impact it still has. Of course not sure if N12 existing at some point of noise history could be sole reason to give up noise now... hah. Back in the day, I was being told that one guy was at work, while girlfriend was staying in his place. Returning home later, to find out she had left, and Nicole 12 CD she had found from the cd shelves was placed on the table with note saying "never call me again".

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on September 26, 2023, 01:31:44 PMI have vague recollection one guy has still big pile of them in storage and I'll try to get my hands on them.

Obscurex Niko financed Perdo Omnis comp because I was in my poverty phase and got most of the copies. Hes international these days. I doubt he took boxes of tapes with him.
I have some copies of both tapes left.

I've made this known elsewhere, but I'm taking a short break from WCN Podcast. I'll be returning on October 16 with a new episode. Until then, enjoy some Patreon episodes: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Also - the 3CD+ is coming along, with the final lineup being announced October 19 to mark the first 2 years of the podcast. Preview of the lineup is below. These are the tracks I have received so far. Based on credible RSVP's I expect the final lineup to be about 3 times more than this. This release will only be available to supporters.

Stewart Skinner
ANTIChildLEAGUE
Climax Denial
Commuter
Capers
The Rita
Slacking
Savage Gospel
Macronympha
Vomir
Cyess Afxzs
A Fail Association
Kate Rissiek
Network Glass
Like Weeds
Two Assistant Deputy Ministers
Heat Signature
Skin Graft
Gabriele Giuliani
Custodian
Young Hustlers

Support: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Out now - Jamie Van Blake of COMA DETOX / DISGUSTING SANCTUM / AGONAL LUST on WCN Podcast

Rest in Peace Jamie Van Blake

https://youtu.be/DTq22VNZSUw?si=Q6Dzun4EKjywBhrc

Good episode with several things that could be discussed.

Good to see Filth & Violence being mentioned in positive light and the importance of label noted.
Discussion about the "industrial culture", how there are many people who sort of live for it could be worth further observations. I know there is a lot of people who get by with whatever job, and their passion is all circulating around things related to "industrial culture". Not just the sound, but overall fringe culture. Be it books, films, lifestyles, etc. Not even meaning just things people often consider destructive or negative, as I don't think that is what "industrial culture" is all about. Like Oskar says, it feels sometimes little pompous or pretentious to talk about industrial culture at this day and age, so far from times where it maybe (at least seemingly) meant more. In my experience, a lot of people don't really follow the "expectations" nor really do it to fit in, but it is some sort of rule of gravitation. That funny thing that guy from small town texas, small town Finland and rural Norway and bleak British city just suddenly gravitated towards each other based on... something that pulled them together. This is also quite different from a lot of other genres. Like if you got local heavy metal guy or punk, what comes out of that is quite different.

Oskar mentions about how noise would be seen in history, if it would be somehow written in art books and university thesis etc. It is curious thing, as for example just about anyone who knows even a little about art, knows existence of modern art, and most likely knows dadaism. Original dada really lasted merely decade, if that. There were other art movements, that are significantly less known. It appears that Vorticism isn't that know either.
It is curious to think what all we would know of Russian avant-garde is there wasn't George Costakis. Tons of pieces that had no place of Stalin era soviet regime had basically disappeared. In the 40's Costakis discovered by accident this art form and became obsessed by collecting all he could, that may have survived from oppression.

"He was so struck by the powerful visual effect of the strong colour and bold geometric design which spoke directly to the senses, that he was determined to rediscover the Suprematist and Constructivist art which had been lost and forgotten in the attics, studios and basements of Moscow and Leningrad."

It could be very much possible, a lot of things one takes as granted, that is part of the globally praised art history, would have been lost and forgotten, thrown into garbage, with no value seen in them. Unless there was this one man, who went into obsessive ride of trying to find, collect and preserve and eventually make it all public for world to see. Without this one guy, who knows what we would know from this revolutionary era.

There are theories why dada became big and known by everybody, and not some other modern art movement or group that issued manifestos and created formerly unseen things around same time. Like in mentioned in that topic about Frans De Waard interview where they talked about importance of the noise books he is doing, that there is nobody to document this movement - so we got to do it ourselves. Some of these art movements existed in time when there was journalists, critics, authors etc that were curious. There is none of that left really. Everything remotely alternative is pushed so far on the fringes that it either survives by itself, or withers away. I would assume.

Another great episode. The thing that stuck with me was the mention that appreciating old horror movies most of the times comes down to appreciating the certain aesthetics, not wanting to be scared per se. It's kind of obvious but I think it was well put. I was heavily into giallo films in my twenties, haven't watch any mystery or slasher films in ages, but I still find some of the aesthetic appealing.

This episode also made me check out Agonal Lust's releases.

I think there is similar quality in noise or power electronics. I don't think so many watch horror to be "scared" and in same way somewhat obscene noise may not be listened for sake of being "shocked" or such. It may be purely inspirational, in positive ways.

I was going to say about the thing they talked about horror movies often being the hunt. Good cover, good promising slogans on cover, and then most of the film is absolute boredom and few moments of violence or horror. You can say same thing about a lot of XXX films. Most of s/m, bondage, or more explicit material used to be that you'd be fast forwarding 55 mins of whore trying to get dog do something, and 5 mins of... well... something. Or slow paced plot, boring repetition, and nevertheless, you'll end up getting more... hah. Its the exploitation film tradition. Exploitation perhaps the subject, but also.. audience?

I also recognize the hunt that was talked about. Applies to noise tapes too.

Quote from: RURAL RESISTANCE on October 25, 2023, 09:13:19 PMI also recognize the hunt that was talked about. Applies to noise tapes too.

The hunt is the best part.

Perhaps worth reminding that the last weekend of the month is the WCN Video party for Patreon supporters and podcast guests. We had it yesterday, and like always, the recording is now up on Patreon for those who missed out but would like to sit in. And, if anyone is still unclear, public episodes of the podcast come out on the first and third Monday of each month. The second Monday of the month is a Patreon episode, and the last weekend of the month is the video party, with the recording published on Patreon that Monday.

There will be a new public podcast episode next Monday with Mike Connelly of HAIR POLICE, YELLOW GAS FLAMES, Initiation Services, Noisextra, etc.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Out now on WCN TV - DAVID GILDEN - Texas Pillbox boxset unboxing video

Unboxing the insane 16xCS DAVID GILDEN - Texas Pillbox boxset, released on Fusty Cunt. I went through each piece of this incredible set of morbid noise.

Watch the full 45 minute video here: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

See the first few minutes here: https://youtu.be/8S9e8B5bykw

OUT NOW: Mike Connelly of HAIR POLICE / YELLOW GAS FLAMES / Initiation Services / Noisextra | WCN Podcast 65

Mike Connelly is an official noise veteran, though he is as vital and active as ever right now. From his founding work with HAIR POLICE, his Gods Of Tundra label, and as a member of WOLF EYES in the mid 2000s, through his current efforts, together with his wife Tara, as YELLOW GAS FLAMES, their Initiation Services label, and of course, their flagship podcast Noisextra, along with Greh Holger. Mike is someone who has lived and breathed noise through relentless touring, releasing, and collecting for decades, and continues to distill his passion and focus. This was a very fun episode for me, with many gems for the youth to pick up on!

https://youtu.be/weC0Z3_lz4c?si=cS7Zu9NWyaGWfiV0

Be sure to check out the 1+ hour EXT. segment, exclusively on Patreon. Mike talks about his time in WOLF EYES, more stories and wisdom from the road, and his top 5 adult film stars of all time! Mike also shared download codes from V/A - Any and All Action (Initiation Services) and YELLOW GAS FLAMES - Ben Wa (Hospital Productions)

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Excellent episode. Also many curious things, like Mike getting notch more personal, mentioning how podcast is almost like therapeutic thing to get mind off from all the nuisance happening in life. Health problems and such. It explains quite nicely why doing podcast should be most of all fun!

Many things one could use as starting point for discussions. One is that he mentions hopes that someone would start podcast for new stuff, since they had set up goal to cover the oldies. Complimenting WCN for stepping up for new artists. This is curious situation, since notion of what is "old" and what is "new" has changed quite a lot.

I was recently browsing through Freak Animal #11 in attempt to find specific information and happened to look at the Grey Wolves interview. It was fresh interview at the time (1997?) and GW mentioned they have been around for long long time - that was like 12 years.. First tapes being published in 1985. Back then, there was two kinds of talk. Some people seemed to consider that this 85'ish artists were flogging the dead horse as original industrial and power electronics was dead and gone. Others seemed to feel that GW was indeed very much part of the original industrial and seemingly been around forever. 12 years was damn long time when thinking many of the early protagonist existed only handful of years before moving on or quitting.

Sure, 12 is a lot, but from todays perspective, with Exit Strategy album GW was already 30+. Since then no new material, merely reissues have happened. Old timers being around for several decades is feeling long, but reading old interview of band that has been around for 12 years, means now that if someone would be now talking about that, it would mean being from 2011.. that feels almost like "new project".

It might be also matter of perspective. Anyways, I agree with Mike welcoming people to cover new things. This is something I wonder, that back in the day, interviews in UG zines were most often done with people who were just getting started. Bands and artists who had merely couple tapes in circulation or couple gigs behind. And that would be enough. People who just had found out about type of music, first attempts to make it, and instantly supported by "UG press". This is way less common now, and if feels little odd that someone would have to first sort of become acknowledged veteran before interviewed? Of course SI magazine features new projects all the time, but there is also intent to cover even newer. That perspective of movement, that there are new things happening, and also interesting things happening, that could catch now and not wait till artists already "retired" and then everybody can say how underrated they were... hah.

I was told the 1+ patreon extra is even better than this public episode. Any extra comments on that, of course welcomed.

The whole episode with Mike was fantastic, in total with the exclusive content is 3-hours. The extended Patreon exclusive conversation was great. They get into solid discussions about the state of noise, why they think it's been hitting new heights the last few years, and more personal discussions. In relation to the question of why noise seems to have a heightened wave of interest again and new levels of activity, originally I was thinking I didn't really have an answer to that. Then they started to elaborate, well the introduction of Noisextra podcast and now WCN, duh! All of this new discussion around artists and labels has been healthy. That wasn't the main point and it wasn't self-congratulatory or self-promotional by any means, but they are right that it has certainly helped.

Then the Covid shut down and stimulus that led to a lot of artist and label activity, case in point, Troniks being relaunched as one example. And Mike had an interesting perspective with the reissue of the Skin Crime boxset and some of the USA-based Merzbow shows before 2020 getting people psyched again on classic material providing new motivations and enthusiasm. Ripple effects that have traveled through the scene were kind of an enlightening moment. Discussions of artists that have disappeared from the scene and started reappearing as of late. Anyway, kind of rambling but it was a good discussion and one of my favorite episodes and guests from WCN in general. Sounds like Mike is open to an Afterblast episode and looking forward to that immensely.

I do think we are kind of in a golden moment of noise where the caliber of artists, labels, and surrounding media is in the perfect sweet spot. Still underground, with a lot of discussion and incredible material being produced. All most too much, I have trouble keeping up with it all, but it's a good problem to have. But we don't have that weird popular culture influence that Mike talks about from around 2010 or so when Wolf Eyes was being interviewed by Spin magazine or artists being sponsored by Red Bull or whatever, and getting this weird major music coverage and corporate attention.

Complete change of topic and jumping back a bit. I really enjoyed the episode with Jamie Van Blake as well. A bittersweet interview knowing he passed, but incredible to get some insight into the man behind enigmatic projects like Coma Detox and Disgusting Sanctum. I don't have anything to specific to dive into there, but just really enjoy learning more about the artists and projects I enjoy and appreciate this candid and personal insight provided by the podcast.

Quote from: Fistfuck Masonanie on November 11, 2023, 10:42:56 PMIn relation to the question of why noise seems to have a heightened wave of interest again and new levels of activity, originally I was thinking I didn't really have an answer to that. Then they started to elaborate, well the introduction of Noisextra podcast and now WCN, duh! All of this new discussion around artists and labels has been healthy. That wasn't the main point and it wasn't self-congratulatory or self-promotional by any means, but they are right that it has certainly helped.

Discussions of artists that have disappeared from the scene and started reappearing as of late. Anyway, kind of rambling but it was a good discussion and one of my favorite episodes and guests from WCN in general. Sounds like Mike is open to an Afterblast episode and looking forward to that immensely.

I would think it is obvious that podcasts vitalized part of the noise talk. I am also occasionally quite baffled when people say that it seems like I am like only guy promoting noisepodcasts in form of actual commentary and attempts to continue some discussions presented on them, at the forum. As I am not present in many of the social media platforms, I don't know or see what happens there, but I've been told its emojis, thumbs ups and oneliners. Rarely actual noise talk? Of course it must happen at patreon user related chat or whatever and privately. But that is different from visible noise talk, where new guys who may not be insiders, have access for dialogue. Any art that regresses merely into commodity, especially these days, ain't very interesting. I would suspect the amount of noise talk tends to correlate with meaning.

New WCN TV video out now!!! - Digging Through My Noise Collection in Storage

Digging through and listening to my noise collection that's been in storage for 8 years - with the audio from what I'm hearing in my headphones.

Long video available at: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
Short clip here: https://youtu.be/br4afUPcLjo

The most recent episode was a good watch. The old crates in Oskar's Mom's basement act as time capsules to the early/mid 2000's noise collector. There are many, many releases stored in those boxes that are sought after nowadays. Bunch of shit from Kakerlak, Keith's projects, early F&V, IOPS, Gaping Hole... the list goes on. One of the funnier moments was when he realized he unknowlingly had an original copy of Emil Beaulieau - In The Pale Moon Light and the dubbing was shit. I suppose his reissue was worthy after all! One interesting takeaway was seeing how releases hold up over the years. Issues with special packaging breaking down or CD-Rs not working. There are a few of those he points out. Having to wash hands after touching special packaging with mysterious liquid on it... considering this genre one can only imagine what that may have been.

OUT NOW! Tourniquet Noise Series feat. BODY CARVE and Grant Richardson on WCN Podcast
During my visit to my hometown of Minneapolis, I was fortunate enough to catch a Tourniquet Noise show - the monthly noise series put on by Grant Richardson at the Red Sea Ethiopian Restaurant and Bar. I ran into N. Desuah of BODY CARVE there for a brief chat about his new album "Studies In Advanced Decomposition," just released on Chondritic Sound. I also sat down with Grant afterwards to talk about the series - its history, goals, challenges, and future. Of course caught live sets from SALAMANDER KEY, FORMS IN NATURE, VIATOR, and THE BLIGHT as well, who were performing that night. Respect to real people doing real things!

https://youtu.be/b8ncnx-y5Rs?si=702iAN2lyyGV4KLQ

Maniac's Circle Patreon supporters of WCN Podcast get access to download codes of BODY CARVE - Scrap Gash, released on White Centipede Noise as a tape in 2017. Find that and much more at:
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Short, but sweet. It is indeed different thing to be together in same space, rather than talking heads of the zoom meeting, hah. The little, but very significant difference.

I suppose the "local scene noise" question is very interesting, as thinking of them talking about three separate noise scenes being in the city. It is sort of weird thinking that when you got the international, actual world wide known noise scene stuff, it is almost heroic reports done of single noise gigs and fests.. while how many hears (before this) about endless monthly noise events happening in Minneapolis? couple each month, just in one city. Of course some of it may not be actual noise but some sort of experimental sound.
Finland has about the same population as Minnesota, not very different density of population. I would still think montly noisy events being constantly organized on weekdays in some helsinki bar would get old fairly quick? Of course we do have over here also the artists of "local noise" flavor to it, but would appear as if bands would almost automatically lean towards international noise approach. At least the good ones. As soon as material is some sort of experimental sound, strange synth experiments and beats and stuff, I guess those tend to quickly fall into "for locals only" and nobody really needs to care of them as you got equivalent for the stuff in every country, or city.

OUT NOW:

BURNING on WCN Podcast

https://youtu.be/p34UbXYs9hs?si=JmwSLFIpmL2QndQ1

BURNING has been Minneapolis's best kept secret for over a decade. A brutally honest and musically progressive industrial band fronted by Sadie Ryan, transforming personal despair and fury into an aesthetically singular assault on the sensibilities. With virtually zero internet presence and few recordings in circulation, live performances in the city have been the only way to truly experience their unique power. This interview is particularly important to me, as I was also a founding member of the band, and consider Sadie my best friend. Welcome to BURNING - you will know them.

In the Patreon bonus EXT. segment of this episode, we hung out with the camera in Sadie and Adam's apartment, where Sadie showed me the leather garments and BDSM gear she's been making, they both shared their top 5 records of all time, and more. See that and more exclusive content at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

I don't know for a fact if noise makers are leaning more into publishing or communication beyond local level than some other genres. I think I have discussed about topic somewhere. Maybe there is "local noise" topic somewhere at the forum..

It is very much possible that if there is local noise makers who are not visible.. then.. you don't know about them. However, it feels that there is way way more "local music bands" that consist of people who play and make songs, but never feel like they would need to be out there more than that. See no purpose to be heard and appreciated, anywhere further than local scene. In noise, many times there is just pure lack of local scene, and especially in past, you simply needed to start making connections to even hear other people's releases. Giving out tapes would feel odd, if there is absolutely nobody to give it to, hah..

These days, situation is so different. If there is no "drive" to be "out there" so to say, it may be also good that idea of local noise only heard by people who are out there watching shows (or in some cases buying releases from members at the gigs) and not every artists really needs to be aiming to become internationally recognized name. It is curious thing how some types of sound clearly has more of "local" feel. Then other artists, who may be equally small, or even smaller, but has handful of fanatical buyers around the world.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 24, 2023, 02:32:56 PMI think there is similar quality in noise or power electronics. I don't think so many watch horror to be "scared" and in same way somewhat obscene noise may not be listened for sake of being "shocked" or such. It may be purely inspirational, in positive ways.

I was going to say about the thing they talked about horror movies often being the hunt. Good cover, good promising slogans on cover, and then most of the film is absolute boredom and few moments of violence or horror. You can say same thing about a lot of XXX films. Most of s/m, bondage, or more explicit material used to be that you'd be fast forwarding 55 mins of whore trying to get dog do something, and 5 mins of... well... something. Or slow paced plot, boring repetition, and nevertheless, you'll end up getting more... hah. Its the exploitation film tradition. Exploitation perhaps the subject, but also.. audience?

I like this sentence a lot, where you say "I don't think so many watch horror to be "scared" and in same way somewhat obscene noise may not be listened for sake of being "shocked" or such. It may be purely inspirational, in positive ways". To add to that, I think it can lead to an epiphany of some strange aura and need for some sort of violence, that can bring one to a sense of unexplainable euphoria. The film Videodrome and much of Cronenberg's work brings forth this sense of euphoria, at least for me that I cannot quite explain well enough. In no way do I visit any of my horror film collection in a way that I would say to be "scared, or shocked" it's definitely for a sense  of utmost inspiration.

I think in regards to add comment to your next paragraph in regards to fast forwarding, especially in XXX film to by pass some the slowed and boring leads up, is a bit the same with many low end production horror flicks of the 70s, often there is this present desire for that specific dopamine hit. Fast forwarding to seek out what you've been waiting for and just skipping ahead to what's most intense. Definitely a formula constructed in the name of exploitation, that all to often gets moved along quickly out of seeking more, fast and now!

Quote from: WCN on January 05, 2022, 03:45:02 AMIs noise really not enough?

I find it strange that in a genre/subculture of music so specific and obscure, with such fanaticism and so little documentation or journalism, that people are more interested in hearing an artist talk about food or sex or cars than about what they think about noise, how and why they do it, etc. Aren't there enough outlets that cover such topics? My aim is to provide a full picture of the artist and their work. Of course those things are often a part of that picture and well worth addressing or even exploring, but I know the thought of a great artist like Jaako Vanhalla, who I would really like to know a lot more about, doing an interview where he only talks about tea is irritating to me. No disrespect to Lasse or Personal Best zine (I love his work and appreciate the zine) but this approach smacks of boredom and a flippant attitude to the art-form that is noise.

As for my own approach with the podcast, I'm learning on the job, but definitely improving as I go. The time span was less than 2 weeks from thinking: "someone ought to do a video podcast interviewing noise artists" to saying: "I guess I'm going to be the one to do it," and now here we are. I don't have any experience with journalism or interviews, and I don't pride myself for being a particularly charismatic conversationalist or great intellectual. I'm asking the questions that I as an artist and person deeply involved and obsessed with noise want to know. I am not interested in being one of these "podcast-podcasts" where it's all about 2 free thinkers riffing off each other and providing a mind-blowing conversation about "whatever" to the listener. I do want to go DEEPER and learn more about the individual as an artist, but don't want to spend disproportionate amounts of time talking about their childhood or day jobs, unless those turn out to be particularly relevant to their work. Sometimes they are, most of the time they're not. It's also very much about shop-talk for me, and not necessarily providing the most accessibly entertaining conversation to the casual noise fan. The "procedural interview" is a skeleton I've been using to make sure I stay focused and don't forget to cover important ground, but it's definitely something I'm always trying to improve upon. Still, I think most of my guests have done a great job taking my questions as a starting point and running with it. I'm trying to get better at running along with them. The video chat format isn't the most conducive to free flowing conversation, but that's a limitation I deal  with. I have already planned to have certain guests back for a second round to talk more in depth about specific things, so that will indeed happen. I've also started to do private solo episodes for patreon supporters, partially based on questions asked/topics from supporters, which already seems like it will be quite interesting.

I do genuinely dream of this podcast being something a wider variety of people will find engaging and valuable, and will continue to strive to make it that, but only on my terms. I am not at all interested in pandering to people who are "over" noise, who think noise is over, who use phrases like "one of the few noise artists who actually..." or "finally something fresh..." I'm not going to focus on spicy but irrelevant stories in order to make it interesting to more people. I would be extremely disappointed if someone sat down with Joe Roemer for 2 hours and only wanted to talk about "fucking trannies" and not his thoughts on all of the other interesting stuff he has been involved with.

That said, I am sincerely interested in hearing more from people about what kinds of questions they are interested in hearing from artists and honing my interview skills. Please do reach out.

I think you're doing a fine job mate! I think it's great what your doing and definitely improving and progressing with each video, which is amazing as like you said you kind of just jumped into this with little to no experience. I feel like you touch on subjects very well and often leave no stone unturned as far as the artist's scope of work as a whole. I think that is what's most important about White Centipede Noise podcast is that you're able to really stay focused on "noise" which I can imagine it can be quite difficult when some of these videos go for 2 hours long! What's also great is you highlight artists specific works well enough in the interview that it is intriguing for the listener to actually go out after the video and seek out the artists work. For instance I wasn't very familiar with Worth, but after the video I was more inclined to check out his work and give him a closer look and it's like...wow, how haven't I checked Worth out before, so with that said these interviews are very good and can open people up to new artists that maybe they weren't as familiar with before. Keep up the great work!

Oh, that was something I could have mentioned about new video beside comment about "local noise" phenomena: The video quality when it is not "zoom meeting", but actually happening somewhere, makes is vastly better. I know that it is not doable few times a month, with artists living all around the globe, so this will probably remain as rare treat.

OUT NOW!!!

Noise Cribs with Grant Richardson

In this first 30 minute episode, we're invited into the home of Grant Richardson, the man behind death industrial project GNAWED and Hex Audio Labs, arguably the most prolific and trusted mastering engineer in the scene. Grant showed us all around his giant house in Minneapolis, which is almost entirely dedicated to his work in the noise industrial underground. From his mastering suite, to his lathe cutting studio, to his backyard barbecue pit, we get to see it all!

Because this is the debut of the series, I'm making it available on the public YouTube channel for 24 hours. Due to the heavy workload and equipment required to produce Noise Cribs, it is classified as WCN TV Premium content and will be available only to Maniac's Circle Patreon supporters or higher in the future. You can get access to more, and co-produce future premium content at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Watch free for the next 24 hours: https://youtu.be/pG4bgqQYQgA?si=V2aDQVuJlJlRd77i

Really good. Seeing the way he does mastering, taking it absolutely seriously is pretty inspiring. I've heard some Finns mentioned they spend XXX amount of money to master tape.. and of course I know he does good job, but also that he clearly puts money in good use to improve gear and studio was very nice.

I like room after room cluttered with somewhat weird stuff.

Noise Cribs with Grant Richardson is now available through Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/noise-cribs-with-94549911?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link

In this episode, I break down my favorite 10 releases of 2023, and in the EXT., share some further reflections on the year. I love checking out peoples' year end lists, and look forward to meeting up to talk about everyone else's at the WCN video party at the end of this month. Thanks for watching, listening, supporting, and making this year such a success!

https://youtu.be/LJPa4A3v-wM?si=Y34J928xaPg7GnCV

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 12, 2023, 07:21:12 PMReally good. Seeing the way he does mastering, taking it absolutely seriously is pretty inspiring. I've heard some Finns mentioned they spend XXX amount of money to master tape.. and of course I know he does good job, but also that he clearly puts money in good use to improve gear and studio was very nice.

I like room after room cluttered with somewhat weird stuff.

I like rooms with the clutter and weird and random stuff too. It kind of reminds me of like Buffalo Bill's house on Silence Of The Lambs or something like that, in terms of the rooms being really different with some odd things around, haha. I like how Grant has various rooms of media on every floor. He's got some CDs and tapes around here and some stacks around there. His mastering room was like opening a door into another universe, totally surprised me! Also like the random animal skulls around the house and the random oddity type of things. I love that sort stuff.

Latest episode dealing with top releases of 2023 is good example what kind of advantage is to describe noise with native tongue, instead of being trapped within minimal vocabulary. Even if Oskar would not go into absolutely deepest analysis of sound, he tends to be able to go into such detail of what noise in each particular item is, that it is good to listen to. Not just listing favorites, but more!

OUT NOW:
WCN TV: Noise Cribs with Sam Stoxen of Phage Tapes out now on Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Trailer: https://youtu.be/iQeCVmqTgj8?si=a1zIY6cdr5ICBKGl

Quote from: WCN on January 08, 2024, 08:11:50 PMOUT NOW:
WCN TV: Noise Cribs with Sam Stoxen of Phage Tapes out now on Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Trailer: https://youtu.be/iQeCVmqTgj8?si=a1zIY6cdr5ICBKGl

Just upgraded the membership so I could check this video out. Very interesting how Sam can manage all of that like he does. He's got a lot of overhead to say the least.