Was listening to the Vinyl Guide podcast episode with Thurston Moore the other day. Two thoughts about it. I knew he had a big collection. The guy apparently has "a few hundred thousand records". How many noise rarities does this guy have on his shelves back in the states?
I don't have or use Instagram, but it seems like it's common for people to move used records and cassette on this platform nowadays? It's not the first i've ever heard of it, but it made me wonder. How much am i missing? I know some stores use instagram but they often upload their stuff on their own webpage or discogs as well. Current labels/musicians use it. But i'm not very interested in newly released stuff. I'm thinking more about second hand stuff and rarities.
How much have you bought on Instagram, Facebook and whatever else people are using?
I do have facebook, but use it in selected way. Not really accepting "friends", as I don't post anything on my own profile, so there is nothing to follow. I don't follow labels, bands or... almost anything really. Just couple of groups where discussion (hopefully) happens. Besides that I do post mostly in Finnish at my fb pages of my physical record store (Sarvilevyt).
I do write about records or whatever on that page, but never include links how to actually buy it. People may know where to buy it (from me, or somewhere else, don't really care). Store is not there to "business" as much as it attempts to just cultivate underground culture.
It is almost surprising, when the thing is called SOCIAL media, how... antisocial it actually is? I would rather see underground based on communication and ideas, and rest follows, and idea of sitting in front of IG feed waiting ads for stuff that sells out in blink of an eye, is pretty much antithesis what I hope underground to be. So IG marketplace noise - I will miss that stuff most likely, but it is choise not to be more involved in "social media", and minimizing active participation in how it changes the nature of art (noise or something else).
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 30, 2022, 05:08:25 PM
idea of sitting in front of IG feed waiting ads for stuff that sells out in blink of an eye, is pretty much antithesis what I hope underground to be. So IG marketplace noise - I will miss that stuff most likely, but it is choise not to be more involved in "social media", and minimizing active participation in how it changes the nature of art (noise or something else).
That's exactly it. I'm not entirely into labels using Instagram as their sole means of operation. Manufacturing rarity after generating hype. Instant "sold out" status and instant validation. But at the same time I'm not sure how much it really matters. Missing out on a couple of releases from certain artists now and again, sure, but is it
necessary to worry about owning those items when new releases are always just around the corner (probably even from the same artists)? And how much does it impact the actual noise "market" of distros, shops, and labels that still sell via their own websites? Probably not very much at all.
Seems like OP is mainly wondering about the second hand market, and yes, I see lots of people who post on IG selling second hand noise goods. (Often times in the "story" function, so the post only lasts 24 hours). I guess you DM them then and follow up on the deal. Seems fairly common, and I see a lot of rarer and more obscure releases popping up around there, and I suspect they aren't being posted anywhere else.
Just make an account and start following people with mediocre collage work, b/w photos of themselves posing in ruins, Throbbing Gristle memes, etc... soon you'll find yourself in the Instagram Industrial Milieu where everyone has something to sell! (You don't even need anyone to follow you, but if you start posting such stuff, you'll have them lining up in no time.)
Quote from: WCN on January 30, 2022, 10:56:11 PM
Just make an account and start following people with mediocre collage work, b/w photos of themselves posing in ruins, Throbbing Gristle memes, etc... soon you'll find yourself in the Instagram Industrial Milieu where everyone has something to sell! (You don't even need anyone to follow you, but if you start posting such stuff, you'll have them lining up in no time.)
Great post!
But yeah, you just have to be following people who happen to be selling their shit. I don't think this is necessarily a "bad" aspect of
Instagram, because a private seller is going to make a private listing
somewhere, and people outside of their social media circle wouldn't necessarily be aware of it anyways- so the fact that it's on Instagram is kind of a moot point. Maybe they would post it here otherwise, maybe not.
I hate "social media" so much, that I don't use any of it.
No accounts on Facebook/Instagram or whatever.
I use instagram a lot @anticitizen, more visually, but the same way I used my old blog retaliation.
I sell most my releases and used gear on that and it works fine to me.
No problem to use Instagram or Facebook to selling stuff.
It's quite easier and more faster.
Buy and sell.
And you haven't to pay the % to discogs.
Of course i try to check also the sites that i use the most (stoic strength, nh, etc...).
It's an instrument like another one.
I use Instagram at this point for sending messages to people and maybe checking a couple gear hashtags. Using it exclusively to sell merch is both difficult due to the nature of the platform (IG wants you to stay on their site as long as possible and isn't a fan of people saying "link in bio". The result of this can be lowered visibility in the algorithm it uses). Also, it's becoming a rat race for mediocre labels to get stuff out as quick as possible, people want their cybernetic dopamine rushes more than a conversation nowadays.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 30, 2022, 05:08:25 PM
antisocial it actually is?
Like anything in life its up to YOU how you want to play the game/interact on IG. Its just as easy to be sociable and grow just as it is to keep everyone away and uninterested in what you are doing. Just like approaching ones art, its the same.
As for everyone talking about sold out this and sold out that, I feel thats been a topic thats been going on for a long time. Here's a good question, before Hospital, were there labels that sold as quickly/worked as fast?
Still it's interesting how "missing out" will inform the tastes, at least where I stand. My first reaction, every time, is "fuck this shit".
Much as I'd love to engage the wider world, the last thing I need is more stress. AKA "Fuck this shit".
Just to curtail the fighting words a bit. Let met say. A first reaction and a final determination may very possibly diverge at some juncture. But that that first (and undeniably emotion-laden) reaction would be only indiscriminately undervalued.
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on January 31, 2022, 05:18:04 PM
Still it's interesting how "missing out" will inform the tastes, at least where I stand.
What tastes are you referring to?
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on January 31, 2022, 04:53:51 PM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 30, 2022, 05:08:25 PM
antisocial it actually is?
Like anything in life its up to YOU how you want to play the game/interact on IG. Its just as easy to be sociable and grow just as it is to keep everyone away and uninterested in what you are doing. Just like approaching ones art, its the same.
For me, social interaction would be things like actual talk, actual discussion. It could be done, sure. I just don't see that much of it is happening in social media. I am sure there is, but for example IG being predominantly picture oriented, and it has certain ways people like to use it, it is not really platform that would be ideal for discussion. For posting pics, promoting releases, etc, it might be best way to reach viewers? That's fine, but it's not the social networking in ways I see ideal.
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on January 31, 2022, 06:18:38 PM
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on January 31, 2022, 05:18:04 PM
Still it's interesting how "missing out" will inform the tastes, at least where I stand.
What tastes are you referring to?
Well, I'm referring, not unironically, to tastes which have no legitimate basis in the quality of the sounds (or art). I'm acknowledging that access is itself on some level (perhaps unfortunately) influencing my ability to qualify the shit entering the earhole.
This is not an ideal, not by any stretch. But an undeniable factor that deserves at least a line or two of acknowledgement.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 31, 2022, 06:44:52 PM
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on January 31, 2022, 04:53:51 PM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 30, 2022, 05:08:25 PM
antisocial it actually is?
Like anything in life its up to YOU how you want to play the game/interact on IG. Its just as easy to be sociable and grow just as it is to keep everyone away and uninterested in what you are doing. Just like approaching ones art, its the same.
For me, social interaction would be things like actual talk, actual discussion.
Direct Messages is the way to go with interacting with people on IG.
Have a great discussion going currently with Like Weeds, Andy Nolan, Misery Engine, and Ryan Bloomer. Not to mention the hundreds of convos Ive had related to gear, releases, etc. Just about everything you'd find folks talking about here.
Being resourceful. Avoiding fees. Sounds like good use to me. Until the platform catches wind and wants their cut. In the meantime, get down with your bad selves. If there is a downside to it, it's further fracturing of the already greatly fractured, but that is how it is today.
You definitely avoid a lot of the bullshit when you treat IG simply like a place to post flyers.
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on January 31, 2022, 07:25:41 PM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 31, 2022, 06:44:52 PM
For me, social interaction would be things like actual talk, actual discussion.
Direct Messages is the way to go with interacting with people on IG.
Have a great discussion going currently with Like Weeds, Andy Nolan, Misery Engine, and Ryan Bloomer. Not to mention the hundreds of convos Ive had related to gear, releases, etc. Just about everything you'd find folks talking about here.
What I mean, is of course that it would other peoples discussion that one can follow. One good example, where discussion does happen to certain extent, is FB "noise now playing" group. Of course some post just pics and one liners, but also more. Plus people may discuss in comments. This is way to discover new recordings, that are not just self promotion, but fans talking (publicly) with other fans and one may lurk there checking out things.
IG private messages is certainly something else. I talk to people privately all the time elsewhere (email, whatsup, messanger, telegram, even this forum,... ) already now seems so scattered that more apps for chatting, I hope not. I'd rather see more public reviews, public discussions, as it feels that would benefit the genre way more than more "market places".
people selling stuff second-hand seems like the LEAST insidious aspect of instagram. like taylor says private listings will happen anywhere regardless. the REAL "marketplace" effect of the platform is the commodification of the music itself, and the reduction of creative impulses down to whatever meme-wave happens to be passing through the public consciousness at the time. all aesthetics become interchangeable, seeing black metal font does not mean black metal anymore, seeing "b/w pictures of guys in ruins" could be industrial, or techno, or some graffiti street artist, or anything. so much information REDUCES peoples' ability to conceive really new things. there are too many points of reference.
edit: for me, i can't type the names of some of my projects on instagram because they get immediately flagged ("controlled opposition," "weird dick,") it's an interesting challenge :)
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on January 31, 2022, 07:25:41 PM
Have a great discussion going currently with Like Weeds
Are we to gather that some sort of collabo is in the works? Like, that would be rad.
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on February 04, 2022, 05:28:30 AM
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on January 31, 2022, 07:25:41 PM
Have a great discussion going currently with Like Weeds
Are we to gather that some sort of collabo is in the works? Like, that would be rad.
We've been discussing it albeit briefly but count on it happening. Really fucking with Kenny's approach these days majorly. Large body electronics.
Redacted: sorry guys I shouldn't complain so much.
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on February 04, 2022, 08:22:42 PM
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on February 04, 2022, 05:28:30 AM
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on January 31, 2022, 07:25:41 PM
Have a great discussion going currently with Like Weeds
Are we to gather that some sort of collabo is in the works? Like, that would be rad.
We've been discussing it albeit briefly but count on it happening. Really fucking with Kenny's approach these days majorly. Large body electronics.
Best news this week!
Haven't seen much of private listings on Instagram, but there is something to be said of social media/technology and the deterioration of authentic community/art.
I've used Instagram to promote releases but it's never been some conscious effort. Just happened to have a personal account where I would post updates on what I've been working on while still posting releases on forums/sending physical flyers. The medium is convenient for keeping up to date, but as stated there should still be an effort made to carry things over onto forums or with real life contacts. And as time goes on, the more I see Instagram's primary value as a place for shit posting/aesthetic dumps. But now, you have label Instagram accounts running giveaways via story reposts. Simply speaking, that is extremely gay.
When the m.o. and ethics are simply just a microscale imitation of the wider culture, can you still call it underground? While the internet/social media gives us undeniable pros such as spreading (mis)information and expedient communication, underground music should still be something that primarily occupies physical space. Bandcamp only releases, noise label Instagram giveaways, etc just run counter to what draws me in to underground cultures. I see the aforementioned developments as manifestations of striver and high time preference impulses.