Would this be an accurate claim to make today? Why or why not?
No, it just smells funny. At the very least, the special edition packages usually do.
I think what people take for the process of decomposition just might be signs of grotesque, unnatural, against-all-odds life. When a musical (or "musical") genre is truly dead, will anyone even bother debating it?
I would say no, and more importantly I would be more curious as to what specifically triggered this conclusion in the first place
Quote from: theotherjohn on June 07, 2024, 11:11:38 PMNo, it just smells funny. At the very least, the special edition packages usually do.
Are you sure you're not thinking of the audience at the typical live show?
Quote from: GenitalStigmata on June 08, 2024, 01:03:55 AMI would say no, and more importantly I would be more curious as to what specifically triggered this conclusion in the first place
I second this. Not totally loving the "prove me wrong", slightly clickbaity approach here. But hey, it might lead to something interesting anyway.
Understood. I am not making the claim myself, I just think it's a more provocative thread title than a question would be. I just thought it'd be a chance to coalesce various conversations.
It's clear GO is alive, for example. And Bloodyminded is playing the Ramleh show in Queens, as are the halflings. But I thought I'd sensed a general attitude that pe might be exhausted.
Get the feeling I'm wrong and it's best to X the thread. I'm not trying to troll. Thanks.
I don't know...dead maybe isn't the word perhaps, but maybe lying dormant somewhere until something new and interesting rekindles the fire. It never seems to die, but seems to always find a new way to reproduce itself throughout time, whether it's reinventing the wheel, or something different. Scatmother brought that something new and different to power electronics. I think the more that can follow his template or version of PE, the more this modern era of it can still exist and also stay interesting as well. That's just my 2 cents!
It appears that such claim is usually made by people who have feeling that may be either "it is not what it used to be" or "I am not entertained!".
In both cases, tends to be moment of needing to look into mirror. Something that is alive, won't stay exactly same. We may see it belongs to same lineage, but expression is probably slightly different. If this different is not what one is looking for and therefore feels they are not entertained... It may be time to address what is actually dead, hah.
Like when you see aged businessmen declaring punk is dead, while you got youngsters at squat playing hc shows... or Black Metal dudes crying how all is safe and clean now, when their experience of BM is via spotify and IG. A lot of things may be in state of decay, sure, but grown men expecting others to deliver again their teenage years emotions... appears to be most common situation.
Majority of genres that started, by design, as underground or counter-culture, including punk, BM, all sorts of darkwave etc. at some point at least for some period of time spilled into mainstream (from post-punk revival heroes like Interpol to Flenser's modern black metal roster, examples are plenty). I say it with no criticism at all, rather opposite, I am always glad to find out that what I (as a teenager, perhaps) thought to be niche music for rare connoisseurs of fine taste can actually be liked, understood and appreciated by masses. That spotlight moment is what I think often resurrects a stale genre that would otherwise die.
PE and harsher types of noises, as for as I can see, never had their MTV/arena moment and yet it is still here, after 40 years, with a decent mix of old and new artists, traditional and new technics, from pure play PE to experiments and fusions. Sure, average age of a fan/musician is higher than it used to be (and it has imnplications that Mikko mentioned above), but it is far from demographic crisis. So I would argue that PE has proven to be incredibly resilient and not easy to kill despite the fact it has always been pretty UG.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 08, 2024, 09:06:06 AMIt appears that such claim is usually made by people who have feeling that may be either "it is not what it used to be" or "I am not entertained!".
In both cases, tends to be moment of needing to look into mirror. Something that is alive, won't stay exactly same. We may see it belongs to same lineage, but expression is probably slightly different. If this different is not what one is looking for and therefore feels they are not entertained... It may be time to address what is actually dead, hah.
Like when you see aged businessmen declaring punk is dead, while you got youngsters at squat playing hc shows... or Black Metal dudes crying how all is safe and clean now, when their experience of BM is via spotify and IG. A lot of things may be in state of decay, sure, but grown men expecting others to deliver again their teenage years emotions... appears to be most common situation.
Haha, indeed, very true! Often times it's the individual who has R.I.P. not the music or scene per se. Definitely reminds me of the late 80s, early 90s whiffle thrashers out there. There was a great abundance of those, who are now middle aged men who grew up with the MTV telling them how great the big 4 were and so most of them who were interested in it at that time and will tell you how nothing is as good as Slayer anymore or nothing has been good since, which any real metal folk know better then that. It's generalization of course, but we all know the metal guys I'm talking about and these are the ones who want to take control of every conversation to tell you how metal use to be good, before it died.
Quote from: Penon on June 08, 2024, 11:53:36 AMPE and harsher types of noises, as for as I can see, never had their MTV/arena moment
This is true mostly, especially as far as the sounds and instrumentation go, but can it really be said about the subject matter, at least the more sexually themed aspects?
For instance, here in the US, a few years back, there was a big controversy about the Cardi B song-W.A.P. aka, Wet American Pussy.
This song was not about cats.
There was quite a sustained debate about what it meant for society that such a vulgar song was released, available for children, etc.
Anyway, no need to listen to it. Its as annoying as you can imagine. But, as someone who listens to p.e., I got an entirely different angle out of the whole kerfuffle. Reading the lyrics, its basically not that far off from something you might have seen Whitehouse/SJ do in their early days. The difference, being, of course, that W.A.P. is all wrapped in a nice, saccharine sweet layer of pop syrup.
Of course, I seriously doubt that Cardi B was inspired by early Come Org records to make this song, but it does show that popular music is dancing up to more taboos that noise has never had an issue with.
Which is what I find pathetic about it. Its FALSE. There's nothing "poppy" about this kind of stuff. Its dirty and nasty. And that's exactly what the best p.e. is, in the entire presentation. It not sugar coating anything. Its forcing you to stare into the abyss in all its blackest and make of that what you will. You can criticize their lyrics and subject matter all you want, but Bennett and co were HONEST. There was no hypocrisy.
And that maybe brings up something which actually does relate to the question of this thread. Is pe/noise maybe suffering a bit because the degeneracy of the culture it critiques has caught up with it? What is shocking anymore in a world that seems more mad and stupid by the day?
I think, like most music, it means artists have to be more creative in what they do, but there's still plenty of room for noise/p.e. to point out the hypocrisies of modern life and uncover the dark underbellies of our civilization in that honest way, as a contrast to the "safety" of popular music. Its needed more then ever, in fact.
Its just that only screaming "FUCK!" and "CUNT!" really loud over feedback and a bondage sample isn't going to cut it anymore. And that's probably a good thing. Leave that to Cardi B.
Just as an example of a relatively "newer" act that shows its not dead, take Am Not. Creating always interesting p.e. that very much is built on what came before, but putting his own spin on it, which very thoughtful and engaging lyrics for the current age.
I have made the argument before that Industrial/PE/Noise peaked at some point and then followed the decline or "conservation/preservation" mode.
It happens to all movements in art if you pay close attention to history, there is always a golden age. That doesn't say anything about the spermatic influence of the genre, influencing people who might not necessarily be doing anything under the "PE" tag.
It's hard to say exactly when the decline started and why. Usually reasons are complicated and connected to the historical context and dramatic changes to world. End of cold war, rise of the internet just to name a few.
Another reason for the decline is because 'PE' or "Industrial" suffer the close association with youth cultures despite being less popular than other youth cultures such as rock music, metal, punk. In contrast to other forms of artistic creation that do not rely on youthful energy and youthful dispositions such as writing, painting, filmmaking. It's pathetic to imagine an 80 years old guy scream "FUCK" or "CUNT" really loud over feedback, but the same cannot be said about a painter who paints for as long as it's physically possible or Clint Eastwood still directing films at 94 years old.
Once the first generation of artists gets old and there are no disciples to continue at the same level the genres die eventually.
Going back again to the topic of changing times and historical context. It's no longer subversive to use themes such as porn, gore etc when every normative person have access to the real stuff within seconds search on the internet.
Or take for example the experimentation of Genesis P.Orridge with sex and gender taboos, completely institutional and mainstream today.
What happens with scenes of music like these is they peak, then ossify. They go on, so they're not dead, but only technically. Anything confronting/engaging about such scenes just becomes rote, and any "innovation" is just a matter of what can be stretched as far as possible, or sometimes tacking some other little idea on. Whatever. It's more a case of them being walking dead than actually dead.
No one has to keep up with it all. It's legitimate to go, "I'm bored with this", and move on. Probably smarter.
"but Bennett and co were HONEST. There was no hypocrisy."
I'm not sure about this. There's an irony and humor that I think a lot of pe projects completely miss. I think Phillip Best is more interested in language than honesty.
Quote from: Thermophile on June 09, 2024, 01:43:47 AMAnother reason for the decline is because 'PE' or "Industrial" suffer the close association with youth cultures despite being less popular than other youth cultures such as rock music, metal, punk. In contrast to other forms of artistic creation that do not rely on youthful energy and youthful dispositions such as writing, painting, filmmaking. It's pathetic to imagine an 80 years old guy scream "FUCK" or "CUNT" really loud over feedback, but the same cannot be said about a painter who paints for as long as it's physically possible or Clint Eastwood still directing films at 94 years old.
There's been a lot of dicusion on this forum whether or not PE/noise/etc is "popular culture" or "youth culture" or not. In my opinion they aren't, and as such there shouldn't exist the requirement to be young and good-looking.
To give a pretty easy, and obvious example, an 80-year-old Mick Jagger singing "Start Me Up" is, imho,
significantly more pathetic than an 80-year-old PE artist would be.
Also notion of golden age is curious. I fully acknowledge there is such thing, but at the same time, I tend to think there can be more than one. Just like certain historical developments happened in different parts of world in slightly different moment.
Like lets say one would claim golden age of NOISE was the 90's. In some ways, it can be argued to be so. However, from perspective of Finn, it would be utterly clear we live NOW far more shining golden era. Just about every way you can imagine. Only missing element is that one can't yet apply emotional nostalgic quality on it.
Same way, the "golden era of power electronics"... I suppose its been discussed before, but one can easily claim it is UK 80-85 and that about it. As soon as such claim is made, one could remind moments where PE was blossoming and reinventing itself, sounding unlike the originators, yet possessing some of the characteristics or spirit. I of course use the power electronics in style of "Open Wound", hah.. More flexible than just very specific sound of specific era.
In latest Rocker, there is Flanagan & Crumer discussing about the question of something new needs to come with noise, that it wouldn't be just same old. It makes me always wonder why exactly?
One easily gets why something such as golden era of hardcore or punk rock died out so quick. How many chord progressions you really have in the style? hah... Then with music styles like Black Metal, genre has golden era in different parts of world, different moments and despite one would rate early 90's high, genre has been re-invented, radicalized several times after that. In same way, strength of noise or PE, at least in my opinion, is in such vastly superior to simplistic one idea loud hardcore (as one example) that it has not even yet run out of steam. Creative material keeps coming year after year and it isn't even bound to its origins, but many people approach it from clean table seeing it STILL as something new and fresh, after all these years.
My opinion always been, if expression still has vitality, why being obsessed with getting something "new"? We could easily just see how far something goes before it runs out of steam. We certainly have seen it with many styles of music that have mere museum value at this point. Noise or PE certainly not yet at that point.
Quote from: Bigsby on June 09, 2024, 04:03:08 PM"but Bennett and co were HONEST. There was no hypocrisy."
I'm not sure about this. There's an irony and humor that I think a lot of pe projects completely miss. I think Phillip Best is more interested in language than honesty.
That is true and something I thought of after I wrote that. There definitely did seem to be an element of dark humor to a lot of the early British pe, and it wasn't entirely serious. Obviously, the guys in Whitehouse weren't going out on the weekend and committing acts of sexual violence to back up their authenticity.
Although I think the overall point about the "honesty" of their sound stands. Whether they were being mocking or more seriously critical, their sound and the way of delivering it was never trying to make it more palatable to a wider audience. In fact, they were arguably deliberately doing the opposite. You can laugh at "My Cock's On Fire," but no one will ever say it's "catchy" and has "a good beat."
I'm going to write a poem about this premise.
Quote from: BatteredStatesofEuphoria on June 09, 2024, 12:02:42 AMQuote from: Penon on June 08, 2024, 11:53:36 AMPE and harsher types of noises, as for as I can see, never had their MTV/arena moment
This is true mostly, especially as far as the sounds and instrumentation go, but can it really be said about the subject matter, at least the more sexually themed aspects?
For instance, here in the US, a few years back, there was a big controversy about the Cardi B song-W.A.P. aka, Wet American Pussy.
This song was not about cats.
There was quite a sustained debate about what it meant for society that such a vulgar song was released, available for children, etc.
Anyway, no need to listen to it. Its as annoying as you can imagine. But, as someone who listens to p.e., I got an entirely different angle out of the whole kerfuffle. Reading the lyrics, its basically not that far off from something you might have seen Whitehouse/SJ do in their early days. The difference, being, of course, that W.A.P. is all wrapped in a nice, saccharine sweet layer of pop syrup.
Of course, I seriously doubt that Cardi B was inspired by early Come Org records to make this song, but it does show that popular music is dancing up to more taboos that noise has never had an issue with.
Which is what I find pathetic about it. Its FALSE. There's nothing "poppy" about this kind of stuff. Its dirty and nasty. And that's exactly what the best p.e. is, in the entire presentation. It not sugar coating anything. Its forcing you to stare into the abyss in all its blackest and make of that what you will. You can criticize their lyrics and subject matter all you want, but Bennett and co were HONEST. There was no hypocrisy.
And that maybe brings up something which actually does relate to the question of this thread. Is pe/noise maybe suffering a bit because the degeneracy of the culture it critiques has caught up with it? What is shocking anymore in a world that seems more mad and stupid by the day?
I think this is a really interesting take, however something wild like WAP is hardly new for pop or mainstream audiences, and to be honest I didn't really get the controversy about it either. Didn't we already have Madonna doing this same kinda thing for the longest of time?
In the 60's and 70's quite a few disco records had frontal nudity on the sleeves that left little to the imagination. Girls on roller skates with bare breasts on the sleeve, exposed buttocks on the back or the inside sleeve when it was a gatefold, cheeky and sexy song-titles...the music might be cheesy and boring, but disco was apart from dancing absolutely about sex and eroticism.
What about 60's, 70's & 80's porn soundtracks pressed on vinyl? including nudity for the artwork? You can argue those are not mainstream, but what if those are released on big music labels like Warner Bros. Records or the BASF or Philips record labels, the same companies that also produced the (blank) cassette tapes? Pressings of those records must at least be in the 1000's if not a lot more.
Sex and eroticism has always been part of popular music culture beginning in the 50's with Elvis Presley, MC5, The Stooges, Rolling Stones, Madonna and so on, not even going on other cultures (hip-hop, dancehall, reggaeton etc.) that are a lot more in your face with that kind of stuff.
Sex was always there and will be always a big part of mainstream music. Look at 50 cent, look at Tailor Swift, look at Cardi B, look at the popularity of 50 shades of gray. Maybe not as in your face as the hard BDSM stuff (well, kinda is sometimes), probably not the raunchiness of Bizarre Uproar, but behind the curtains these mainstream artists fuck a lot more, and probably a lot weirder than your average PE artist.
Wait, what was my point again? Sex and PE. I'm not against it. Go for it. I like sex, you like sex. Do it, do it now!
It is possible that controversy was more visible in countries where it is controversial? One can imagine vulgar female sexuality in mainstream can be that, but over here... not really. It was exactly like mentioning Madonna. Media (and people) acknowledges it must be outrageous for some, but doesn't really cause such reaction in society like we have? At least not that I would see.
I think as long as there is a need for a true underground counterculture, PE/Death Industrial/etc. will always have a place. It's music for the anti-musician. The sonic equivalent of Abstract Expressionist painting. I think it provides a portal for experimentation and pushing more limits sonically/artistically/lyrically/etc. Because of this, there will always be others to fill the ranks.
This could be too optimistic of a view, however.
Quote from: VORACLE on June 11, 2024, 10:14:57 AMThe sonic equivalent of Abstract Expressionist painting.
Now you're talking.
I dunno, there was a decent turn out of at least 70 people attending for this show in Manchester (https://special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=13391.0) last Saturday, with a good mix of enthusiastic younger and older heads of all sexes/genders and nationalities (for what that matters) both on and off the stage. I can't say if it's due to the central location or the calibre of acts appearing but power electronics as a "scene" seemed very much alive there and then. Get out more, I guess?
In terms of visibility, noise seems more popular than PE right now, I give you that, but I question if that holds up in reality. If one looks at how many copies are sold of a noise vs. a PE release, for instance, it seems that 20-50 homemade tapes is standard for noise artists. For PE artists, on the other hand, it is not uncommon to have CDs or LPs pressed in 100s of professional copies, for the biggest names even 1000 or more. You do the math...From where I stand, the PE scene looks healthy beyond the mere commercial aspects too. There are good new projects emerging on a regular basis and a number of older ones still going strong. What some see as a sign that a scene has died or stagnated is really just a sign that it has become recognizable as a genre, which has happened in both the noise and PE scenes, IMO. If you look beyond that, I think there are many ways current PE artists innovate within the basic template and I see no shortage of creativity compared to the noise scene, quite the contrary. Some of the artists who just played in Manchester are good examples of that.
Nah.
It's not dead.
It's just more accessible because of the social media and stuff like that.
There is a bunch of great projects around.
I'm actually feeling very good, so all my mates.
Quote from: Stipsi on June 11, 2024, 01:55:22 PMNah.
It's not dead.
It's just more accessible because of the social media and stuff like that.
There is a bunch of great projects around.
Yeah that's exactly it, accessibility of modern times.
I will chime in and also say very not dead; I think there is a lot of vitality left in the genre and new ideas and developments can be seen all over the place. However I also salute all who keep it narrowminded and sticking to the old school formula. You dont need to re-invent the wheel with every new album as long as it still hits you in the gut in that good ol´ way.
dead? no. misunderstood by most? yes.
person who hears for first time a PE track & thinks "noise + screaming = PE"
i think this old post sums it up better than i could say
Quote from: Warfare Noise on July 15, 2020, 11:23:11 PMre: Tough Guy noise - in my circle of friends this wasn't a pejorative 20 years ago and now it is. The difference being that the old "tough guy" stuff was complex, provocative, ambivalent, confusing, vague, conceptual, contradictory, idiosyncratic, etc (Whitehouse, S Jugend, Con Dom, MB, Genocide Organ, et al) while now there is an extremely high amount of just shallow, same-ish, on the nose, jock type "tough guy" PE. It's like a generation of artists that misunderstood their inspirations. No thanks.
Quote from: XXX on June 11, 2024, 08:26:53 PMdead? no. misunderstood by most? yes.
person who hears for first time a PE track & thinks "noise + screaming = PE"
i think this old post sums it up better than i could say
Quote from: Warfare Noise on July 15, 2020, 11:23:11 PMre: Tough Guy noise - in my circle of friends this wasn't a pejorative 20 years ago and now it is. The difference being that the old "tough guy" stuff was complex, provocative, ambivalent, confusing, vague, conceptual, contradictory, idiosyncratic, etc (Whitehouse, S Jugend, Con Dom, MB, Genocide Organ, et al) while now there is an extremely high amount of just shallow, same-ish, on the nose, jock type "tough guy" PE. It's like a generation of artists that misunderstood their inspirations. No thanks.
you mean ^ "misunderstood by most" contemporary pe artists?
I agree, well put by wfn
Fat is the new pussy.
In this age, calling things by their name has became the most insulting, provocative, rebelious, thoughtful action. No need for hidden passions, dark explorations, fetishes, flesh, blood etc. - Just state the obvious. What do you see. How you call it. - For those of some age is how we are, how we learned, how we grew when societies didnt bother about nosense -for whatever reason- . Sounds easy, natural. For todays kids, i dont know. I guess the most bizarre fuck 'shocks' them less than a blatant 'bigot' ? Or i 'underestimate' them ? I see the result of the campaign against bullying here is kids forming 'gangs' and robbing each other more than ever ! Although dangerous, still a glimpse of hope that some react to the forced-fed 'education' .
What would be a reason for thinking the genre is dead?
I recall back in 2013 it stirred a bit discussion when Wolf Eyes John Olson was saying "noise is over":
QuoteIs noise over?
Completely, 100 percent. That's part of why I'm quitting the label. All the categories, everything has run its course. The whole solo culture of it has invented a million people playing by themselves trying to be geniuses. You're getting a million one-way conversations.
Same logic could be used for power electronics, yet, it is barely true.
We could also say
tape is dead. If tape used to enable this flourishing form of culture, where people around the world would communicate and exchange interesting sonic (and other) ideas, with affordable, even cheap medium that was accessible to anyone, doable by anyone. Encouraging into DIY, alternative for commercial business. What is tape now? It is certainly not that. For major part of entire noise tape phenomena, it is something totally different now.
However, to declare tape dead would be odd. Meaning has changed, sure, but also there exists still plenty of people who do self financed "artist tapes" and trade with others like that, labels who do not operate solely on contemporary ways of quick turnaround business transaction.
Quote from: Thermophile on June 09, 2024, 01:43:47 AMIt's pathetic to imagine an 80 years old guy scream "FUCK" or "CUNT" really loud over feedback
To be honest I'd be more disturbed by a 80 years old screaming insanities on P.E than by the youngster. Maybe because the old man is NOT supposed doing it ?
On old people, power electronics has relatively few works about aging and other thoroughly unglamorous themes compared to themes where some would engage in vanity like mass murder, fetishes, etc. Con-Dom's last album concerns aging and death explicitly; its sounds, samples and images are the most miserable and dreadful I've experienced in the genre. Wide-scale promotion of previously taboo sexual acts and political beliefs made many of the original themes of power electronics culturally acceptable to relevant demographics, but there still are subjects that can't be adequately sanitized or glamorized, and subjects one really isn't supposed to be immersed in, which could inspire new, good power electronics for now.
The infamous "Lemon Party" video would be less shocking with young actors. That could be an idea of artistic renewal for retirement-close PE musicians.
Quote from: Spectral_Hiss on June 15, 2024, 04:29:58 PMQuote from: Thermophile on June 09, 2024, 01:43:47 AMIt's pathetic to imagine an 80 years old guy scream "FUCK" or "CUNT" really loud over feedback
To be honest I'd be more disturbed by a 80 years old screaming insanities on P.E than by the youngster. Maybe because the old man is NOT supposed doing it ?
I always felt the opposite. I know it is quite common of especially rock / pop punk musicians to admit that as they get older, more comfortable and, invariably, wealthier, the rebellious spirit disappears along the way (pretty sure The Offspring pissed off a lot of fans by saying that at some point). But I think a lot of PE is less about teenage angst and more about more calculated (?) anger towards the state of the world, peculiarities of modern culture etc. That message certainly comes across as much more credible when delivered by older generation. To put it simply, to be angry at the world, you need to first understand how the world works and what exactly is wrong with it and why. It takes years and decades to acquire that knowledge or even, dare I say, wisdom. So angry screams from a grandpa make sense - angry screams from a clueless youngster much less so.
That makes sense too, I admit.
(but I was talking about pure silly insanities & obscenities, so, we aren't really contradicting)
Personally, I see PE as a younger man's game, but only because I'm a lot less pissed off and a lot more resigned these days. Maintaining the rage takes effort for some of us. For others, perhaps, it's more natural.
I wonder if it's possible for PE to be expressed in ways other than just someone shouting? One of my biggest issues with the genre these days is the vocals. Too much the same, for mine. But then, isn't that one of PE's attractions, that there's someone yelling frantically on top of it? Taking it away could take away a lot of PE's power. It's a bit of an open question, for mine.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on June 18, 2024, 06:21:59 AMI wonder if it's possible for PE to be expressed in ways other than just someone shouting? One of my biggest issues with the genre these days is the vocals. Too much the same, for mine. But then, isn't that one of PE's attractions, that there's someone yelling frantically on top of it? Taking it away could take away a lot of PE's power. It's a bit of an open question, for mine.
Slogun is powerful and often more just talking than shouting. Nicole 12 is also powerful without shouted vocals. But it is not very typical power electronics. Which is kind of the whole idea of this discussion?
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on June 18, 2024, 06:21:59 AMI wonder if it's possible for PE to be expressed in ways other than just someone shouting? One of my biggest issues with the genre these days is the vocals. Too much the same, for mine. But then, isn't that one of PE's attractions, that there's someone yelling frantically on top of it? Taking it away could take away a lot of PE's power. It's a bit of an open question, for mine.
I tend to think, this is one of the flaws of current day power electronics OR heavy electronics. Idea that it is mostly about shouted vocals, and also, that there are very specific vocal styles or efx that needs to be used. There are other topics about different vocal styles, which could be also combined with different lyrical styles. Perhaps also innovative ways of doing vocal editing. Anything from narrative, to just... bestial noises or sort of vocal controlled electronic effects.
If you put together line of bands ranging from Con-Dom, Grey Wolves, Iugula-Thor, IRM, Sodality, Intrisic Action, Final Solution, Brethren... very few of them really do the "whitehouse" or "sutcliffe jugend" vocals. Everybody has something quite different. And furthermore, it is not even mandatory that every song has vocals or that they would be the same. It appears more like later days development when kind of samey vocal performance of shout-your-lungs out are delivered over synth oscillation. When thinking albums like Operation Cleansweep or something, it is quite rare that there even is vocals.
Paradox may be, that when wanting less vocals, would one then associate it as.... merely "noise", hah.. For me, newers bands like Heydrich (as one example) certainly reeks of old school PE even without vocals.
There's a lot of new PE that I'm not interested in, but I certainly wouldn't call it dead.
In terms of depravity and desperation intersecting with top-tier craft, the Interracial Sex material on 'Jackaholic' and 'Lacerations' is serious business.
Also, the two Augmented Atrocity releases on Aussaat are pummeling and deliver the fucking goods, even if the visual presentation isn't hideously confrontational. For someone like me who seriously prioritizes the audio over the visual aesthetic, I'm not really that concerned about that classic tradition bleeding into 2024, but I could see the tame album covers failing to lure in a lot of PE maniacs.
As far as a current label that's truly dedicated to presenting PE in the most unsettling way possible, you can't really look away from what OMM has been doing. It's not a style I'm seeking out, but you can believe that I'm checking out each new drop announcement to see what kind of new poison will be drilled into my eyes. Without fail, there's almost always something that fills me with absolute repulsion and it will take a couple weeks for me to shove it out of my skull. Like I said before, not my style and not really something I'm seeking out unless I hear it first and it makes an impact, but this is also the kind of shit that keeps PE alive.
And obviously, having someone with resources and decades of experience—like Mikko—continuing to fly the flag for reckless, uncompromising PE of past and present is absolutely essential. Jim from Fusty Cunt hasn't been around as long as Mikko and definitely runs a much smaller operation, but I would also put him into this category. It's a dirty job, it can put ones personal life under public scrutiny, and it can probably feel thankless at times, but the spirit of PE dies without people like this. For these reasons, I've gotta tip my cap to these folks.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 12, 2024, 10:30:19 AMIs noise over?
Completely, 100 percent. That's part of why I'm quitting the label. All the categories, everything has run its course. The whole solo culture of it has invented a million people playing by themselves trying to be geniuses. You're getting a million one-way conversations.
The bolded part sounds like a healthy culture.
Sometimes I don't think that it is. I think it's being re-introduced to former PE/Noise peoples/fanatics in a kind of new renaissance way. There are lots of interesting artists today, whom have kept things very interesting, in my opinion. North Central, Scatmother and Naxal Protocol to name a few and maybe they aren't reinventing the wheel, so to speak when it comes to influences and sounds, but they are keeping PE/noise equally as interesting as those whom came before them, if not even more so! Also noticing a lot more acceptance to noise coming from other marginal types of music, like black metal these days. Ride For Revenge has done an excellent job at bridging the crossover in a way that is so well done and executed that I think it peaks curiosity to those looking for something more. I think more people from all walks of strange marginal types of genres are a lot more open to PE/Noise, perhaps even more now than ever before. I've done a lot dungeon synth stuff on my label Cranial Blast, I do a lot of noise stuff too, but have noticed the people whom at first only could appreciate the dungeon synth/dark ambient stuff, but now whom maybe only formerly listened to that type of electronic music or black metal, might now be into noise, simply by having it out there to discover and by having such stuff in stock, while amongst the rest of other interesting genres and types of music as well. It might not be recognized straight away, but certainly recognized sooner or later with time and maybe even become a bit more interested into something that they might not have even known about, a little bit in the same way maybe black metal folk are today, by now being a bit more open minded these days, than maybe prior years. I think it's a lot more clustered together these days and I don't necessarily think that it's a bad thing. I think the people who discover noise and like it are the same people who otherwise probably come from a background in other extreme music, so it's nice to see people today expand their interests a bit more and I think that it's happening more so today, than maybe that any other time before.
Looking at the current scene, there is no lack of good new projects putting out releases, but it seems as though it's harder for newcomers in PE than in noise to get some live experience. At least, looking at the line-ups for upcoming gigs and festivals at the moment it looks like the live scene is mostly an "old boys' club". As much as I love seeing the top bands of the genre alive and kicking on stage, it would be great to have more opportunities to see up and coming artists perform too.
I have no problem with the genrefication of PE or it being formulaic. It's the same as in any subgenre - black metal, punk, noise, whatever - all have signature sounds and styles. When in mood for a dose of PE, I WANT those pulsing synth oscilations, metal percussions and flanged vocals and I never seem to get tired of that formula.
in a noiseextra interview w/ John Balistreri, he refers to a Chicago show -what was "supposed to be the last" Slogun action- when he was hit in the head w/ a 2x4 from behind. He describes saying to Mark Solotroff -whom he credits w/ originally getting him to record & perform:"it's over. this isn't ours anymore," as it happened.
i'm not familiar w the incident or what year it was. from what he says it sounds like some cowardly pos could have fucking killed him just b/c Slogun talks about true crime. maybe someone else knows more about this?
Idk if he's right, but thought it'd be of interest here.
My assumption is, that Slogun told in interview all he wanted to say and Solotroff issued abundance of statements related to incident. I would think they may not want further attention to fairly old incident.
Does this web board qualify as further attention? 😂 we are already attentive.
idk if not commenting on old interviews, say for example from older zines, is good practice. what's the point of documenting anything then?
Quote from: Cranial Blast on August 03, 2024, 03:50:33 AMRide For Revenge has done an excellent job at bridging the crossover in a way that is so well done and executed that I think it peaks curiosity to those looking for something more.
Black and death metal would combine nicely with power electronics but I don't know bands that do this well other than Ride for Revenge. I wonder if there are bands that sound like Infester or Blasphemy mixed with early Sutcliffe Jugend.
Quote from: Phenol on August 03, 2024, 02:19:28 PMWhen in mood for a dose of PE, I WANT those pulsing synth oscillations, metal percussions and flanged vocals and I never seem to get tired of that formula.
^this for sure. and I bet most fans here wouldn't know if they were listening to a project grounded in trans rights activism or militant feminism. But when they find out...
So the provocative part is not "its over;" it's "this isn't ours anymore"
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 05, 2024, 11:40:28 PMMy assumption is, that Slogun told in interview all he wanted to say and Solotroff issued abundance of statements related to incident. I would think they may not want further attention to fairly old incident.
wonderful contribution. hahah gatekeeper! can we just discuss pe please? I'm sure you can figure out a way to shoehorn yourself into this.
I don't know how difficult it would be for anyone to simply go to artists site to read about it?
My assumption is, that it wasn't discussed in aim of not stirring unneccesary shit towards arranging gigs and so on. I recall it took quite some time before Solotroff started playing local gigs again. Waiting dust to settle and drama to be over.
Solotroff has made statements in public and he keeps that stuff online, I guess its fine.
I am sure, there will be always bunch of people gloryfying yet another antifascist victory, hah, but damn...
https://bloodlust.blogspot.com/2017/03/mark-solotroff-statement.html?m=1
The guys he tried to explain, issued their reply to this where they explained this statement is not enough and man is not even addressing the actual problem there is.
Even mentioning these things, I would assume narrative can be either the mentioned antifascist victory or "nazis butthurting again", pfff.. yep. Hah...
What it really is, is pretty nasty story of decades old personal grudges and fellow noise artist ratting out other artists to people who have no idea of what noise is. I am sure most people in noise scene know people like this and are somewhat bored that same routine repeats, often by same people, over and over again. And generally, clearly just stirring shit. While there are artists and organisers who trying to build something creative. Needless to say, somone sees this again as antifascist victory.
Drama for sake of drama is not needed on the forum, as we got that stuff going on just about everywhere. Dragging artists into attention over and over again, what was ridiculous in first place.
Of course, one can say that discussion is relevant. If ambiguity was one of the absolute core things of power electronics, and if you got crowd, that demands explanation and statements and insist it must be something they can endorse. Sure, especially if such demand has effect and stuff starts to come out and expression is modified, I would not be surprised if people would say "it is over". I tend to think, how lame and predictable the reaction is, it is not the reaction of the audience, but sort of environment that is kind of even part of the artistic expression, plus, going beyond it, to the next level where suddenly people take it as real, and refuse to accept it in realm of art. For me, that is just fine. There is longer article about this in SI magazine.
Quote from: moozz on June 18, 2024, 08:54:42 AMQuote from: Andrew McIntosh on June 18, 2024, 06:21:59 AMI wonder if it's possible for PE to be expressed in ways other than just someone shouting? One of my biggest issues with the genre these days is the vocals. Too much the same, for mine. But then, isn't that one of PE's attractions, that there's someone yelling frantically on top of it? Taking it away could take away a lot of PE's power. It's a bit of an open question, for mine.
Slogun is powerful and often more just talking than shouting. Nicole 12 is also powerful without shouted vocals. But it is not very typical power electronics. Which is kind of the whole idea of this discussion?
On a side note, I don't understand why people complain about Nicole 12's music because of its minimalistic nature, implying that it's just cheap noise that anyone would buy just because it's controversial. As if the artist was supposed to go beyond the level of musical complexity which he seems fit? What I have yet to find in modern noise/PE is a project that just...
sounds like N12. Aesthetically and conceptually speaking, there are a plethora of artists who employ similar subject matters in their music, in a fashion clearly inspired by the latter. Take Wonderland Club or Sick Seed or North Central, for example. They were influence by it whilst bringing something new to the table, within their particular sounds. But then again, and correct me if I must be wrong, I am yet to find music that sounds like N12's music itself. After 2010, specifically
What I miss is that ominous, brooding atmosphere, mixed with whispered vocals overwhelmingly painting pictures of such nature, repetitive loops mixed with eerie feedback distortion, and even a general sense of melancholy present in some songs. N12 was harsh in a lot of moments, but mostly subtle and "lower" than the overall PE. Not only whispered vocals were used, but a variety of them, from distorted, eh, normal talking (in other words, not whispered or screamed), as in Observer, Vogue Bambini etc. ASRM-esque exploitations of disturbing tales, and even based on real events. Exploitations of such depth of current facts bu veiled with a sense of mystery which brings us to never knowing, for example, what a song like "Terry" is about. If someone would have recommendations on that, I'd be glad. Find it hard to keep up with old releases that I still must listen to, less in regards to new ones.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 06, 2024, 09:37:04 AMhttps://bloodlust.blogspot.com/2017/03/mark-solotroff-statement.html?m=1
Thank you. See how I called the assaliant a piece of shit? Don't worry, no one's stirring up antifascist rhetoric. Your sandbox is safe. To be clear, I think an "antifascist" protest of a pe project is about as smart as boycotting a theatre for showing Romper Stomper. Or even a Clockwork Orange . You missed the point , this isn't for you. Move on young idealist. You probably have zero creative imagination. But if this hypothetical theatre was to show a documentary actually advocating for nazism or racism or child molestation, w/ no irony or nuance or humor, or art really, then they'd probably better expect violent protest.
Sucker punching Slogun is pathetic.
On another side note; where are the current day heavy-electronics-PE bands? Name drop them please... I am getting tired of the good old guard (not really).
Quote from: Krigsverk on August 06, 2024, 01:53:34 PMOn another side note; where are the current day heavy-electronics-PE bands? Name drop them please... I am getting tired of the good old guard (not really).
Kevlar?
Quote from: Bigsby on August 05, 2024, 11:10:57 PMin a noiseextra interview w/ John Balistreri, he refers to a Chicago show -what was "supposed to be the last" Slogun action- when he was hit in the head w/ a 2x4 from behind. He describes saying to Mark Solotroff -whom he credits w/ originally getting him to record & perform:"it's over. this isn't ours anymore," as it happened.
i'm not familiar w the incident or what year it was. from what he says it sounds like some cowardly pos could have fucking killed him just b/c Slogun talks about true crime. maybe someone else knows more about this?
Idk if he's right, but thought it'd be of interest here.
I know about what happened, got a first person account of it from my friend who was there. First off, if you've ever been to a Slogun show John is a large and imposing figure who menacingly paces around the floor and often mocks the audience. Like most live PE it's a very confrontational performance and the Chicago incident wasn't the first time that a Slogun set has resulted in a physical altercation - although it may be the most extreme.
I don't remember the full lineup of the show but I think it was with at least one local band and BDN was headlining so there were more people there than just the hardcore PE fans, people who - when faced with John's performance - might not know that it's all an "act" of provocation. What I was told is that during his performance John grabbed and pushed a woman who helped run the space/put the show on and the assault was in response to that.
One more bit of context is that the venue it was at "The Rectum" was a place where the people who ran the space and many of the local scum did some pretty heavy drugs so not everyone there was in their right mind 100% of the time. I crashed at that space a few times and also put on shows for that crew so I'm familiar with the scene there and they went pretty fucking hard. Personally I wouldn't have walked in and started getting in people's faces and pushing people around there although I'm also not as physically large as John but clearly doing his usual schtick there was not the smartest of decisions.
Quote from: Krigsverk on August 06, 2024, 01:53:34 PMOn another side note; where are the current day heavy-electronics-PE bands? Name drop them please... I am getting tired of the good old guard (not really).
A few from Texas -
PSA
INTERIOR ONE
HYPOXYPHILIA
A Need To Be Shot
Forced Entry
Infibulation
Most folks here in ATX will attempt to "cancel" the shit out of you the second they hear flanger vox and a pulsing synth these days. Most shows that involve any sort of PE/Industrial have to be private or under the radar.
Quote from: Moran on August 06, 2024, 12:35:50 AMQuote from: Cranial Blast on August 03, 2024, 03:50:33 AMRide For Revenge has done an excellent job at bridging the crossover in a way that is so well done and executed that I think it peaks curiosity to those looking for something more.
Black and death metal would combine nicely with power electronics but I don't know bands that do this well other than Ride for Revenge. I wonder if there are bands that sound like Infester or Blasphemy mixed with early Sutcliffe Jugend.
Gnaw Their Tongues' material definitely has elements of extreme metal/pe/noise crossover, although the vocals pretty much stay in traditional black metal territory.
Quote from: Krigsverk on August 06, 2024, 01:53:34 PMOn another side note; where are the current day heavy-electronics-PE bands? Name drop them please... I am getting tired of the good old guard (not really).
Zyklon SS'
Racial Superiority is the best power electronics album I listened to from the past five years.
Quote from: BatteredStatesofEuphoria on August 06, 2024, 08:58:25 PMGnaw Their Tongues' material definitely has elements of extreme metal/pe/noise crossover, although the vocals pretty much stay in traditional black metal territory.
I don't remember hearing power electronics in his music. It sounded like black metal with some industrial and noise parts. I've only listened to a few albums though. Do you have recommendations?
https://corephallism.bandcamp.com/album/corephallism-gnaw-their-tongues-split-10 (https://corephallism.bandcamp.com/album/corephallism-gnaw-their-tongues-split-10)
The Black Maghreb. Heard rumors about a 2CD coming soon. Great project.
"Zyklon SS' Racial Superiority is the best power electronics album I listened to from the past five years."
I think the conversation could be if "it's not ours anymore," is that b/c someone like ZSS clearly doesn't get it or b/c SJWs or antifascists just don't get it? The former has zero sense of irony nuance humor art or innovation. The latter can't separate art from artist.
Quote from: xdementia on August 06, 2024, 07:32:56 PMQuote from: Bigsby on August 05, 2024, 11:10:57 PMin a noiseextra interview w/ John Balistreri, he refers to a Chicago show -what was "supposed to be the last" Slogun action- when he was hit in the head w/ a 2x4 from behind. He describes saying to Mark Solotroff -whom he credits w/ originally getting him to record & perform:"it's over. this isn't ours anymore," as it happened.
i'm not familiar w the incident or what year it was. from what he says it sounds like some cowardly pos could have fucking killed him just b/c Slogun talks about true crime. maybe someone else knows more about this?
Idk if he's right, but thought it'd be of interest here.
I know about what happened, got a first person account of it from my friend who was there. First off, if you've ever been to a Slogun show John is a large and imposing figure who menacingly paces around the floor and often mocks the audience. Like most live PE it's a very confrontational performance and the Chicago incident wasn't the first time that a Slogun set has resulted in a physical altercation - although it may be the most extreme.
I don't remember the full lineup of the show but I think it was with at least one local band and BDN was headlining so there were more people there than just the hardcore PE fans, people who - when faced with John's performance - might not know that it's all an "act" of provocation. What I was told is that during his performance John grabbed and pushed a woman who helped run the space/put the show on and the assault was in response to that.
One more bit of context is that the venue it was at "The Rectum" was a place where the people who ran the space and many of the local scum did some pretty heavy drugs so not everyone there was in their right mind 100% of the time. I crashed at that space a few times and also put on shows for that crew so I'm familiar with the scene there and they went pretty fucking hard. Personally I wouldn't have walked in and started getting in people's faces and pushing people around there although I'm also not as physically large as John but clearly doing his usual schtick there was not the smartest of decisions.
This might have been at Varnish in Chicago 2016 & involved dj speed dick? And Mark's account is a third possibility. But I really don't know, I just think the statement "it's not ours anymore" is tasty ahahaha
Maybe "It's Not Yours Anymore" is even better
Quote from: Bigsby on August 06, 2024, 11:04:15 PM"Zyklon SS' Racial Superiority is the best power electronics album I listened to from the past five years."
I think the conversation could be if "it's not ours anymore" is that b/c someone like ZSS clearly doesn't get it or b/c SJWs or antifascists just don't get it? The former has zero sense of irony nuance humor art or innovation. The latter can't separate art from artist.
Even if you think Zyklon SS "doesn't get it" there are many other artists in the genre who make music with "irony nuance humor art or innovation", so how could the genre not be "ours" because a small number of artists among many make music in a way you disapprove of? The binary framing of your question wouldn't help reveal much about why "it's not ours anymore" (assuming "it's not ours anymore" for whatever reason) since the actions of "SJWs" and people like Zyklon SS are often interrelated.
Quote from: Moran on August 07, 2024, 12:23:18 AMQuote from: Bigsby on August 06, 2024, 11:04:15 PM"Zyklon SS' Racial Superiority is the best power electronics album I listened to from the past five years."
I think the conversation could be if "it's not ours anymore" is that b/c someone like ZSS clearly doesn't get it or b/c SJWs or antifascists just don't get it? The former has zero sense of irony nuance humor art or innovation. The latter can't separate art from artist.
Even if you think Zyklon SS "doesn't get it" there are many other artists in the genre who make music with "irony nuance humor art or innovation", so how could the genre not be "ours" because a small number of artists among many make music in a way you disapprove of? The binary framing of your question wouldn't help reveal much about why "it's not ours anymore" (assuming "it's not ours anymore" for whatever reason) since the actions of "SJWs" and people like Zyklon SS are often interrelated.
I actually agree w/ this. But you see my distinction between a fictional film and a documentary w/, for example, racist intent? The difference between Solotroff and Brethren? Between exploration and demonstration? I think ZSS et all have entirely missed the fucking point of PE.
Quote from: BatteredStatesofEuphoria on August 06, 2024, 08:58:25 PMQuote from: Moran on August 06, 2024, 12:35:50 AMQuote from: Cranial Blast on August 03, 2024, 03:50:33 AMRide For Revenge has done an excellent job at bridging the crossover in a way that is so well done and executed that I think it peaks curiosity to those looking for something more.
Black and death metal would combine nicely with power electronics but I don't know bands that do this well other than Ride for Revenge. I wonder if there are bands that sound like Infester or Blasphemy mixed with early Sutcliffe Jugend.
Gnaw Their Tongues' material definitely has elements of extreme metal/pe/noise crossover, although the vocals pretty much stay in traditional black metal territory.
I do vote for a thread dedicated to GTT on this forum. If you look at the first full-lengths for an example, most of them have a Black Metal/Sludge structured, finely crafted with various forms of Noises. The music itself is closer to death industrial, albeit hardly could be described as such. But the discography is so huge there are a lot of releases, which cater to an abstract approach to the sound, or even a more PE-ish one. Vastly proeminent, Mories remains as one of the most prolific artists of nowadays. Volatile sounds in which there is always room for innovation.
* https://gnawtheirtongues.bandcamp.com/album/wir-essen-seelen-in-der-nacht - this might be one of my favorite releases, finely mixing dark ambient tinged noise with something like The Gate of Death, pretty much in the vein of PE.
* https://gnawtheirtongues.bandcamp.com/album/to-rend-each-other-like-wild-beasts-till-earth-shall-reek-with-midnight-massacre-2009 - another masterpiece, with a kind of Harsh Noise approach to how Mories handles the instruments. Noisy, yet still managing to capture that eerie despair and dark atmosphere.
* https://gnawtheirtongues.bandcamp.com/album/for-all-slaves-a-song-of-false-hope-2008 - my personal favorite of GTT. Words can barely the describe the experience of listen to such music. Excellent done, and all the songs fit perfectly.
Quote from: Moran on August 06, 2024, 10:26:19 PMQuote from: Krigsverk on August 06, 2024, 01:53:34 PMOn another side note; where are the current day heavy-electronics-PE bands? Name drop them please... I am getting tired of the good old guard (not really).
Zyklon SS' Racial Superiority is the best power electronics album I listened to from the past five years.
Quote from: BatteredStatesofEuphoria on August 06, 2024, 08:58:25 PMGnaw Their Tongues' material definitely has elements of extreme metal/pe/noise crossover, although the vocals pretty much stay in traditional black metal territory.
I don't remember hearing power electronics in his music. It sounded like black metal with some industrial and noise parts. I've only listened to a few albums though. Do you have recommendations?
The above post has some good recs. I'd add An Epiphanic Vomiting Of Blood and Collected Atrocities. He definitely never goes full p.e. but his mix at times will defintely evoke some elements of it for me. Its more the side of p.e. that straddles the line with noise than the more precise, coldly mechanical style. Things like Taint or Bizarre Uproar.
Speaking of BU, its not death/black, but his period in the mid-2010s where he had this mix of elements of sludge/doom, noise rock, and p.e. (Rape Africa, Vihameditaatio, Amputaatio) remains some of the most unique stuff I've heard. There's really nothing quite like it.
Quote from: Bigsby on August 07, 2024, 06:17:05 AMQuote from: Moran on August 07, 2024, 12:23:18 AMQuote from: Bigsby on August 06, 2024, 11:04:15 PM"Zyklon SS' Racial Superiority is the best power electronics album I listened to from the past five years."
I think the conversation could be if "it's not ours anymore" is that b/c someone like ZSS clearly doesn't get it or b/c SJWs or antifascists just don't get it? The former has zero sense of irony nuance humor art or innovation. The latter can't separate art from artist.
Even if you think Zyklon SS "doesn't get it" there are many other artists in the genre who make music with "irony nuance humor art or innovation", so how could the genre not be "ours" because a small number of artists among many make music in a way you disapprove of? The binary framing of your question wouldn't help reveal much about why "it's not ours anymore" (assuming "it's not ours anymore" for whatever reason) since the actions of "SJWs" and people like Zyklon SS are often interrelated.
I actually agree w/ this. But you see my distinction between a fictional film and a documentary w/, for example, racist intent? The difference between Solotroff and Brethren? Between exploration and demonstration? I think ZSS et all have entirely missed the fucking point of PE.
I understand what you are saying but to your average person they don't understand the nuance of a microgenre that has a few hundred active people in it. It's a microcosm within a microcosm. You could put out the most anti-fascist PE record on earth and if it has explicitly racist or controversial imagery it will just be seen as racist/exploitative/not PC by 99.9% of humanity.
As a society we are pretty much beyond your average person (especially in Gen Z) understanding nuance and artistic intent, everything is taken at face value and right wing/left wing have become people's entire identities and they have a very "if you are not with us you are against us" mentality.
Other than black metal, this is the most extreme music ever made. It is going to bring people who are racist/sexist/whatever and they are going to participate in it, either as artists or fans. You could say PE is dead because of this, but members of PE projects having right wing or questionable views is nothing new and has been there since the genres inception.
Throbbing Gristle wrote the song "Subhuman" about the gypsy people that they encountered outside of the death factory as that is what they really thought of these people. A lot of people in the original PE/Industrial scene had strange and perverted sexual appetites including pedophilia that has more or less been an open secret throughout it's history.
^Good points as well.
Seems like the convo has run course. PE's clearly not dead; however, I now believe this:
Power Electronics Never Happened.
not the way anyone says it did or does haha. as said above, when something is so micro, so niche, so subjective, maybe these kinda questions are pointless. Thanks.
Quote from: Bigsby on August 07, 2024, 06:17:05 AMI actually agree w/ this. But you see my distinction between a fictional film and a documentary w/, for example, racist intent? The difference between Solotroff and Brethren? Between exploration and demonstration? I think ZSS et all have entirely missed the fucking point of PE.
One could make quite valid assumption that ZSS belongs, sonically and visually, more to the pretty traditional industrial. Early SPK -> Genocide Organ -> and that variety of things. There is way less of obvious humor in SPK than in Whitehouse, for example. It would be odd to say he would "miss the point of PE", if he is not really doing PE in the way that. We can see same conclusions appear right from the beginning. GPO stating that Whitehouse missed entire point of industrial music, Whitehouse doing the same for Ramleh and just about any band after them. Some of the veterans concluding power electronics is dead, already by mid 80's. Several English guys saying germans as well as americans missed the point and 90's US PE, was like metalhead dorks doing electronic death metal without sense of humor and Germans not even doing PE, but bleak industrial beats. And so on and on. Damn, even Grey Wolves and such were at times called for ruining PE with their terror-sex-politics-nazi iconography. Needless to say it has happened ever since.
Same in Finland. Most bands that may have been lumped into power electronics, are that merely because word became the one to use for all that other stuff, that ain't "plain noise". Regardless is it really power electronics like sound was in UK in the first half of the 80's. It is something different. Something different from germans and americans and so on.
In most expressions, there is this conflict that people may demand that there must be all these similar qualities that former expression has had. If one delivers the same, it often sounds like copycat. Just recycling all the same without personal take. If you happen to add personal take, and not operating with enough similar ways, this shift generally gets the response "he doesn't get it". Of course, sometimes for reason. Most often we do see, that it is not question that artists would not "get it", but that he is not there following any particular genre guidelines or imitating culture of other nations. What a lame thing it would be if one would demand german bands imitate British humor, right? It would be perhaps even comical. Not to say there wouldn't be germans that could be like that, but.. heh...
Usually, the thing we tend to call power electronics is barely "over", it just keeps moving on, decade after decade there's always been new take on it, with still having enough of something why listeners file it under the same term.
As addition, I suppose there IS humor in ZSS. Not always obvious, but even in some of the ZSS booklet (released separately of music releases), there were even blatant jokes and comical caricature drawings and stuff like that. To combine to things that ZSS uses dirlewanger brigade banner as their logo, is like... well, it is pretty damn dark even on level of PE, where it is no longer vaguely about "nazi stuff", but there is even darker history. He got the wp biker culture material there and so on. I know some people simply don't see the richness of nuance in content of his work, since they simply are incapable to see it. Perhaps due not having any clue about any of the references. That may be one of the elements of current day, that even in moment of irony, sarcasm and humor, etc, if there is not smiley emoji or you are being told there is level of, a lot sarcasm goes unnoticed. In such case, one can often ask did artist miss the point of PE, or did the
listener miss the point?
(Like is it about "nazi stuff", if it goes under the dirlewanger insignia, hah...)
😀😀😀
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 08, 2024, 09:17:47 AMQuote from: Bigsby on August 07, 2024, 06:17:05 AMI actually agree w/ this. But you see my distinction between a fictional film and a documentary w/, for example, racist intent? The difference between Solotroff and Brethren? Between exploration and demonstration? I think ZSS et all have entirely missed the fucking point of PE.
One could make quite valid assumption that ZSS belongs, sonically and visually, more to the pretty traditional industrial. Early SPK -> Genocide Organ -> and that variety of things. There is way less of obvious humor in SPK than in Whitehouse, for example. It would be odd to say he would "miss the point of PE", if he is not really doing PE in the way that. We can see same conclusions appear right from the beginning. GPO stating that Whitehouse missed entire point of industrial music, Whitehouse doing the same for Ramleh and just about any band after them. Some of the veterans concluding power electronics is dead, already by mid 80's. Several English guys saying germans as well as americans missed the point and 90's US PE, was like metalhead dorks doing electronic death metal without sense of humor and Germans not even doing PE, but bleak industrial beats. And so on and on. Damn, even Grey Wolves and such were at times called for ruining PE with their terror-sex-politics-nazi iconography. Needless to say it has happened ever since.
Same in Finland. Most bands that may have been lumped into power electronics, are that merely because word became the one to use for all that other stuff, that ain't "plain noise". Regardless is it really power electronics like sound was in UK in the first half of the 80's. It is something different. Something different from germans and americans and so on.
In most expressions, there is this conflict that people may demand that there must be all these similar qualities that former expression has had. If one delivers the same, it often sounds like copycat. Just recycling all the same without personal take. If you happen to add personal take, and not operating with enough similar ways, this shift generally gets the response "he doesn't get it". Of course, sometimes for reason. Most often we do see, that it is not question that artists would not "get it", but that he is not there following any particular genre guidelines or imitating culture of other nations. What a lame thing it would be if one would demand german bands imitate British humor, right? It would be perhaps even comical. Not to say there wouldn't be germans that could be like that, but.. heh...
Usually, the thing we tend to call power electronics is barely "over", it just keeps moving on, decade after decade there's always been new take on it, with still having enough of something why listeners file it under the same term.
As addition, I suppose there IS humor in ZSS. Not always obvious, but even in some of the ZSS booklet (released separately of music releases), there were even blatant jokes and comical caricature drawings and stuff like that. To combine to things that ZSS uses dirlewanger brigade banner as their logo, is like... well, it is pretty damn dark even on level of PE, where it is no longer vaguely about "nazi stuff", but there is even darker history. He got the wp biker culture material there and so on. I know some people simply don't see the richness of nuance in content of his work, since they simply are incapable to see it. Perhaps due not having any clue about any of the references. That may be one of the elements of current day, that even in moment of irony, sarcasm and humor, etc, if there is not smiley emoji or you are being told there is level of, a lot sarcasm goes unnoticed. In such case, one can often ask did artist miss the point of PE, or did the listener miss the point?
Stuff like this always makes me wonder why the catch-all "post-industrial" did not get wider usage for stuff that followed and built upon Whitehouse? Then you can have the "pure" industrial of TG, the "pure" PE of Whitehouse, and so on...
I pretty much agree with the premise of this thread though. There are still a lot of great PE bands functioning - hell even many of the classics are still active (GO, Sutcliff Jugend, etc.) and even recently Halflings had a reunion show.
But new artists have been few and far between and many of the new generation that I've seen live it's sounded whiny, emo, even kind of like spoken word at times. I'm not into tough guy shit but I do think PE has to be dark, dirty, dingy, etc.
Perhaps the new artists I dig are more on the death industrial side?
Am Not
Moral Order
Himukalt
Quote from: Krigsverk on August 06, 2024, 01:53:34 PMOn another side note; where are the current day heavy-electronics-PE bands? Name drop them please... I am getting tired of the good old guard (not really).
Tooting my own horn here, sorry about that, but give this a listen, it ticks many of the boxes I'd say https://kampfunrest.bandcamp.com/album/phenol-injektion-mass-grave-of-humanity. In general, I think Unrest Prod. is keeping the power and heavy electronics fire going with high quality releases.
Quote from: Phenol on August 09, 2024, 12:17:12 PMQuote from: Krigsverk on August 06, 2024, 01:53:34 PMOn another side note; where are the current day heavy-electronics-PE bands? Name drop them please... I am getting tired of the good old guard (not really).
Tooting my own horn here, sorry about that, but give this a listen, it ticks many of the boxes I'd say https://kampfunrest.bandcamp.com/album/phenol-injektion-mass-grave-of-humanity. In general, I think Unrest Prod. is keeping the power and heavy electronics fire going with high quality releases.
nice, always cool to see newer names in this style, unrest is indeed great for this corner of industrial/noise music. i myself also mainly focus on those kind of styles, you know, power electronics, death industrial and maybe some of the more evil dark ambient. but it seems that most people are into harsh noise and maybe psychedelic noise stuff now? which is cool, but apart from the old stalwarts, i also have a hard time finding new stuff that is more industrial than noise, so to say. EDIT: agonal lust were really great, though, my favourite "new" band/project, for sure...
Tooting own horn and also thinking what exactly is "new". I would imagine that for some people anything after 1999 is new, for someone it is after 2010 or even 2020.
Due this, it seems bands/artists like Am Not, Kevlar, Contortus, etc.. can be considered fairly new, or for the younger crowd they are the established names with multiple albums and seemingly been active forever?
Things like Contortus, obscene finn heavy electronics with neat experimental touch at times, I always liked - and therefore released. After multiple full length cd albums, hard to say is it "new" anymore.
Bands who have been releasing albums for a decade or more can't really be considered new,can they? I get your point though. I definitely still see Kevlar, Am Not etc. as a newer names although they've been around for a long time now.
Indeed, these names are well established and even globally appreciated. I think I have already written about it, but I find the "pace" of PE vs noise quite interesting. When many of best post-industrial / pe acts operate in pace of making album or gig every 1-5 years, knowing if artist has quit, disappeared, or is as active as he always has been, is hard to measure. Public may see something twice in a decade. Even noticing new name who operates like this, may happen with years of delay.
Out of new projects, NO GUARD is something I hope to keep eye on. Interview in new Noise Receptor, tape on Cipher already gone.
it could be a mix of different things, stuff is quite obscure to begin with, maybe new artists dont know how to properly "market" themselves, audience is small so no money incentive to do things fast, the limited audience maybe is quite picky, "elitist"... i dont know and am not the person to be an authoritative voice, but the pace does indeed seem to be slower than other "scenes", ive noticed this too
I feel obliged to make mention of the work of PARASSITISMO in this thread. Without contest my favorite "new" power electronics project.
Instantly bought the No Guard tape, haha, thanks for making me poor. Will check out PARASSITISMO as that's a completely new name to me.
The slow pace is "a thing", but mostly a good thing. You expect that someone has put some effort into a release when it's been on its way for so long, and often that assumption turns out to be true. There is, for instance, not one single release by Anenzephalia that feels redundant. Some are more carefully crafted and put together than others, but all have a feeling of urgency and necessity.
PE is better than ever
Some new some not so
Awenydd
Phenol Injection
Makt
Young Hustlers
Perstrepo
No Guard
Sonic Abuse / Hate Sermon / Inbred
Death Shape
M.I.A
Opulent Adversary
Cockfodder
Abscheu
Bøltorn
Disgusting Sanctum
Wonderland Club
Quote from: snakeradical on August 09, 2024, 04:51:58 PMPE is better than ever
Some new some not so
Awenydd
Phenol Injection
Makt
Young Hustlers
Perstrepo
No Guard
Sonic Abuse / Hate Sermon / Inbred
Death Shape
M.I.A
Opulent Adversary
Cockfodder
Abscheu
Bøltorn
Disgusting Sanctum
Wonderland Club
I've heard a bunch of these and many did nothing for me. As I get older I guess I have a philosophy where if one artists sounds too much like another better artist I think - why listen to this when I can just listen to the better more classic artist?
Either way, I'm glad this thread is turning into a "new PE to check out" thread rather than just bitching about what has been. Onward and upward!
Some of listed projects are from veterans who have been here since.. 80's, but not bad. Actually even good that for example Nordvargr related new projects that are mentioned, show that he is on top of his game and delivering now stronger material than in his classic albums, so to say!
I personally do not even care so much is there new sound from new guys IF artists who are around, keep things creative and strong.
I am often saying that artists may not not yet compete with impact of the genre originators, but there are other ways to experience PE. Lets say the way how many collect obscure 80's tape releases. They can be absolutely great in many ways, even if you can't rate them next to Right To Kill and Catholic Priests.... LP's.
Even in Finland alone, Augmented Atrocity, Kylmäkovamaa, Vigilantism. None may have changed the course of history with their stuff, but for people who collect & listen to hidden gems, promising artists that give you that vibe of "next one is going to be great" or "I got to see this live".
Quote from: John Cagefight on August 09, 2024, 04:02:10 PMI feel obliged to make mention of the work of PARASSITISMO in this thread. Without contest my favorite "new" power electronics project.
Agree with this! Their tape on Angst from last year was fantastic - one of the best of 2023.
Really enjoying what Awenydd has been putting out recently, too.
Last night there was a redneck rave party in the distance, the volume loud enough to rattle my walls and the bass to keep me awake and plunge me into real physical anguish. I don't think power electronics or any kind of super nasty, subversive underground noise music has ever done that to me.
New is a tricky word...
What did you mean for new?
After 2010?
After 2015?
After 2020?
I noticed people mentioned am not, Kevlar, contortus... I don't know...for me these artists are already classic.
I agree with parassitismo, cock fodder, vigilantism as new.
Personally i will put the limit of new After 2015.
Quote from: xdementia on August 09, 2024, 08:23:55 PMQuote from: snakeradical on August 09, 2024, 04:51:58 PMPE is better than ever
Some new some not so
Awenydd
Phenol Injection
Makt
Young Hustlers
Perstrepo
No Guard
Sonic Abuse / Hate Sermon / Inbred
Death Shape
M.I.A
Opulent Adversary
Cockfodder
Abscheu
Bøltorn
Disgusting Sanctum
Wonderland Club
I've heard a bunch of these and many did nothing for me. As I get older I guess I have a philosophy where if one artists sounds too much like another better artist I think - why listen to this when I can just listen to the better more classic artist?
Welcome to middle age. The reaction of "oh this is just X, Y or Z all over again" is much a part and parcel of it as nose hair trimmers and comfortable (as opposed to fashionable or badass looking) footwear.
guerilla selvatica
cov ops
heretic grail
bespoke decay
expensive tastes
misery engine
necroviolence
iron destiny
sarin snow
striations
reaper
depravar
white weapon
totenrune
no nation
detonation day
black maghreb
blodskam
NIT
support
adolphobitch
eradication call
heydrich
if u dont like new PE can always check pink floyd
Quote from: Bigsby on August 07, 2024, 06:17:05 AMQuote from: Moran on August 07, 2024, 12:23:18 AMQuote from: Bigsby on August 06, 2024, 11:04:15 PM"Zyklon SS' Racial Superiority is the best power electronics album I listened to from the past five years."
I think the conversation could be if "it's not ours anymore" is that b/c someone like ZSS clearly doesn't get it or b/c SJWs or antifascists just don't get it? The former has zero sense of irony nuance humor art or innovation. The latter can't separate art from artist.
Even if you think Zyklon SS "doesn't get it" there are many other artists in the genre who make music with "irony nuance humor art or innovation", so how could the genre not be "ours" because a small number of artists among many make music in a way you disapprove of? The binary framing of your question wouldn't help reveal much about why "it's not ours anymore" (assuming "it's not ours anymore" for whatever reason) since the actions of "SJWs" and people like Zyklon SS are often interrelated.
I actually agree w/ this. But you see my distinction between a fictional film and a documentary w/, for example, racist intent? The difference between Solotroff and Brethren? Between exploration and demonstration? I think ZSS et all have entirely missed the fucking point of PE.
Aside from historical reasons, why would irony be necessary for a power electronics artist to "get it"?
BatteredStatesofEuphoria, Kaaoskultti, thanks for the Gnaw Their Tongues recommendations. They're good.
Quote from: Atrophist on August 10, 2024, 04:36:37 PMQuote from: xdementia on August 09, 2024, 08:23:55 PMQuote from: snakeradical on August 09, 2024, 04:51:58 PMPE is better than ever
Some new some not so
Awenydd
Phenol Injection
Makt
Young Hustlers
Perstrepo
No Guard
Sonic Abuse / Hate Sermon / Inbred
Death Shape
M.I.A
Opulent Adversary
Cockfodder
Abscheu
Bøltorn
Disgusting Sanctum
Wonderland Club
I've heard a bunch of these and many did nothing for me. As I get older I guess I have a philosophy where if one artists sounds too much like another better artist I think - why listen to this when I can just listen to the better more classic artist?
Welcome to middle age. The reaction of "oh this is just X, Y or Z all over again" is much a part and parcel of it as nose hair trimmers and comfortable (as opposed to fashionable or badass looking) footwear.
I honestly see it as a positive thing. I've heard and experienced so much amazing music I don't spend time listening to stuff that is just "good" or less than that anymore. Unless I'm checking out new music I'm only listening to stuff that I consider "great" and it feels awesome. I still check out TONS of new stuff but probably only 10% of is actually great. No time for stuff that is just "good" anymore.
I wouldn't describe it as a case of being "jaded" but more a case of being much more discerning than I was in the past.
I think it was discussed before, but maybe not in this topic? It often seems, that people getting older, they spend perhaps less time with music. Work, family, whatever other things they have in life, suddenly find themselves with perhaps former collection of thousands of releases in shelves, but realistically listen only one record a day, or even one in week... or month. Whole notion of "new music" becomes quite obsolete, if you are no longer listening even your absolute favorites.
Some people, like myself, who may be listening probably 30-40 hours a week minimum, have plenty of time to check out new releases. To spend couple thousand hours listening just the undisputed classics would not be very inspiring for me.
Just last weekend at the Harsh Ways Fest, I mentioned that I don't listen to Black Sabbath... nor Metallica, nor Iron Maiden. With exception of 1 CD, all Slayer been weeded out from collection. "What's wrong with you?" was the question what appeared. haha. But it really is that I prefer to hear the bands these bands that were influenced by these, doing it more rugged ways, than sticking on the undisputed classics. With noise, it is not exactly like that. I do listen the classics too, but listening guaranteed genre defining classics is different thing than checking out the less appreciated smaller names and newcomers that inspire in different ways. Especially it makes it clear how this is absolutely not about nostalgic emotions, and re-living the youth.
POWER ELECTRONICS IS DEAD.
HAIL FRAILTY ELECTRONICS.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 13, 2024, 10:07:19 AMI think it was discussed before, but maybe not in this topic? It often seems, that people getting older, they spend perhaps less time with music. Work, family, whatever other things they have in life, suddenly find themselves with perhaps former collection of thousands of releases in shelves, but realistically listen only one record a day, or even one in week... or month. Whole notion of "new music" becomes quite obsolete, if you are no longer listening even your absolute favorites.
Some people, like myself, who may be listening probably 30-40 hours a week minimum, have plenty of time to check out new releases. To spend couple thousand hours listening just the undisputed classics would not be very inspiring for me.
Just last weekend at the Harsh Ways Fest, I mentioned that I don't listen to Black Sabbath... nor Metallica, nor Iron Maiden. With exception of 1 CD, all Slayer been weeded out from collection. "What's wrong with you?" was the question what appeared. haha. But it really is that I prefer to hear the bands these bands that were influenced by these, doing it more rugged ways, than sticking on the undisputed classics. With noise, it is not exactly like that. I do listen the classics too, but listening guaranteed genre defining classics is different thing than checking out the less appreciated smaller names and newcomers that inspire in different ways. Especially it makes it clear how this is absolutely not about nostalgic emotions, and re-living the youth.
I am much more the latter than the former here. I'm constantly listening to new stuff. And I think whittling down classic band's albums to "only the essentials" is the way to go unless it's a band that you especially love.
Here's a great example of a new PE release that is totally solid but in the end just feels like it's retreading on familiar territory - no need to add this to my collection https://perstrepo.bandcamp.com/album/forces-of-hate
And if you think about it... it makes total sense that most projects won't rise above just being "average". There's a reason why groundbreaking and/or classic releases are as such. Because they don't come around everyday, they are rare.
If one wants to spend their time just listening to average or even "good" but not "great" music one is entitled to do that. But the fact that it's possible to only own/listen to absolutely excellent material and nothing less motivates me to do just that. With the exception of checking out new music which I think is something any true music fan must put some time and effort into doing in order to find the next best thing.
There seems to be less publicly visible meaningful interactions (like feedback, reviews, and sharing and developing ideas) between listeners, artists, label operators, etc., now compared to what I read about ten to thirty years ago (I guess partly because of the isolating effects of current variants of social media and instant messaging). Maybe there's a lot happening in private. The apparent dearth of such interaction between the people involved in the genre other than those who've been doing power electronics for many years could be related to the imitative quality prevalent in new acts that some consider a symptom of the genre being stagnant or "dead".
I've been listening to Hounding's Hellscape Realism released by Fanalstatt often this week. Its sound and themes are original while being clearly connected to the common qualities of power electronics.
Quote from: xdementia on August 22, 2024, 12:30:01 AMHere's a great example of a new PE release that is totally solid but in the end just feels like it's retreading on familiar territory - no need to add this to my collection https://perstrepo.bandcamp.com/album/forces-of-hate
Thanks for the tip! I do see/hear what you mean here, it is not a new milestone of the genre, but that classic territory needs to be retread a lot more if you ask me... there is not enough of it. Love this stuff.
Some thoughts on classics vs. new stuff: What is a classic to some, might not be for others. A lot has to do with timing and experience. When hearing Whitehouse (Dedicated to Peter Kürten was my first album by them) for the first time, f.ex., I was utterly dissappointed. I had read about them and expected it to be much wilder than it was. At that time I had already listened to Atrax Morgue, Masonna etc. for years, so nothing Whitehouse did was even remotely shocking and many outdid them on most parameters. So classics for many, but not for me. If I was 10 years older, it's very possible I would feel differently about them.
What becomes a classic may just be about hitting the right people at the right time. To me Prurient and the whole Hospital thing was never really anything of note, but it struck a chord with a lot of people younger than me, so who am I to argue? Maybe if I was 10 years younger, it would have hit me differently?
The point is that it's completely possible that someone might like something new better than what any of us might regard as a genre classic, and that what any of us may regard as "solid" or "just good" right now may be the best and most meaningful record ever for someone else and may even become a classic in the future. I don't think the early GO releases were that well received when they came out, f.ex. and I know many old industrial fans who still see them as derogative and not particularly original, but to me and many here they're absolute genre classics...
Quote from: Phenol on August 23, 2024, 03:48:21 PMThe point is that it's completely possible that someone might like something new better than what any of us might regard as a genre classic, and that what any of us may regard as "solid" or "just good" right now may be the best and most meaningful record ever for someone else and may even become a classic in the future. I don't think the early GO releases were that well received when they came out, f.ex. and I know many old industrial fans who still see them as derogative and not particularly original, but to me and many here they're absolute genre classics...
I was just thinking about that the other day. Take Leichenlinie, for example. A fucking classic in my eyes. But what was the perception when it came out in '89? Maybe one of the older heads on here can reflect on that.
Oh, Leichenlinie was mindblowing when it came out, and still is. One of those top 5 albums of all time regardless of music style for me. Not a weak moment on the whole thing. Klaus Barbie is also the best "industrial" track ever done in my books.
Quote from: Krigsverk on August 23, 2024, 06:50:34 PMOh, Leichenlinie was mindblowing when it came out, and still is. One of those top 5 albums of all time regardless of music style for me. Not a weak moment on the whole thing. Klaus Barbie is also the best "industrial" track ever done in my books.
I agree, timeless and indisputable classic!
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 08, 2024, 09:06:06 AMIt appears that such claim is usually made by people who have feeling that may be either "it is not what it used to be" or "I am not entertained!".
In both cases, tends to be moment of needing to look into mirror. Something that is alive, won't stay exactly same. We may see it belongs to same lineage, but expression is probably slightly different. If this different is not what one is looking for and therefore feels they are not entertained... It may be time to address what is actually dead, hah.
Like when you see aged businessmen declaring punk is dead, while you got youngsters at squat playing hc shows... or Black Metal dudes crying how all is safe and clean now, when their experience of BM is via spotify and IG. A lot of things may be in state of decay, sure, but grown men expecting others to deliver again their teenage years emotions... appears to be most common situation.
This reminds me of a situation where I was young and getting arrested, and the police had just rummaged through my library in my trailer... this cop told me "you know anarchy died in 1985"
I think the dynamics and theater of power and control have reached very interesting territories, and additionally the mass despatialisation of culture towards social media has actually created a stronger potential space outside of it for what noise culture has always done, tape trade, zine, diy, flyer.
The digital gentrification of the underground has an inverse effect similar to what michael taussig talks about in "defacement" where the desecration of something can liberate its inherent sacred qualities. Meaning in a world dominated by political correctness, censorship, deplatforming, algorithms, simulations.
There's an empty space for authentic exploration of topics concerning extreme genres such as PE etc that by their very nature are verboten across corporate platforms.
On the other hand there's always going to be purely derivative works that are relatively impotent and projects that have moved towards caricatures of themselves.
Quote from: Krigsverk on August 22, 2024, 12:48:16 PMQuote from: xdementia on August 22, 2024, 12:30:01 AMHere's a great example of a new PE release that is totally solid but in the end just feels like it's retreading on familiar territory - no need to add this to my collection https://perstrepo.bandcamp.com/album/forces-of-hate
Thanks for the tip! I do see/hear what you mean here, it is not a new milestone of the genre, but that classic territory needs to be retread a lot more if you ask me... there is not enough of it. Love this stuff.
This reminded me that there is the concept that an artist often needs to imitate before they can innovate. And I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with straight-up solid material that falls into a certain genre, it's a good thing. Especially if the artist themselves and fans are enjoying it. I'm just saying I look for a higher standard these days.
Quote from: Phenol on August 23, 2024, 03:48:21 PMSome thoughts on classics vs. new stuff: What is a classic to some, might not be for others. A lot has to do with timing and experience. When hearing Whitehouse (Dedicated to Peter Kürten was my first album by them) for the first time, f.ex., I was utterly dissappointed. I had read about them and expected it to be much wilder than it was. At that time I had already listened to Atrax Morgue, Masonna etc. for years, so nothing Whitehouse did was even remotely shocking and many outdid them on most parameters. So classics for many, but not for me. If I was 10 years older, it's very possible I would feel differently about them.
What becomes a classic may just be about hitting the right people at the right time. To me Prurient and the whole Hospital thing was never really anything of note, but it struck a chord with a lot of people younger than me, so who am I to argue? Maybe if I was 10 years younger, it would have hit me differently?
The point is that it's completely possible that someone might like something new better than what any of us might regard as a genre classic, and that what any of us may regard as "solid" or "just good" right now may be the best and most meaningful record ever for someone else and may even become a classic in the future. I don't think the early GO releases were that well received when they came out, f.ex. and I know many old industrial fans who still see them as derogative and not particularly original, but to me and many here they're absolute genre classics...
Yea, there's a lot of different ways classics can be interpreted. I think the Hospital stuff wasn't necessarily the cutting edge but they more popularized the cutting edge trends that were going on at the time and influenced a lot of people which is now why some of that stuff is considered classics.
Some classics are just that simply because they utilize a method or procedure that was never done so before but now that the method has become much more common maybe that classic doesn't have much other value than the one method it broke ground on. Sometimes classics fade or don't stand the test of time.
Sometimes work - overlooked at the time - will emerge later on to be understood as groundbreaking.