I don't know about everyone else, but I am really getting tired of all the re-released material these days. I have invested a lot of time and money over the last thirteen years building up my cherished collection only to find the same material re-released with better sound quality and that one bonus track.
With that said, what are your opinions of reissues. Of course I would like to have the better sounding copy with the bonus material, but it's getting so fucking expensive trying to keep up! Maybe I should just enjoy what I have while others catch up?
I have no problem with reissues, especially Industrial Recollections has done so great reissues. I would invest on the original tapes or whatever, but they are expensive. Reissues are easy way to get classic material with reasonable price. If I had the money, I would get everything as originals. I do hunt down the ones I really really want as original tape/cd/lp, but just can't afford everything.
I don't know if much of noise get re-issued with bonus tracks? I think it is very few of them.
I think good stuff being done on CD, especially tapes, that might have been mere 50-100 copies or such available for people decade ago (or more!) is very healthy. I generally don't buy stuff I don't need, so I can happily leave unnecessary re-issues for people who need them and live with the originals.
I would have more problem with re-issues what lack some of original material, but been there done that. Some lessons learned, hah...
I Like Re-Releases since it makes Sense for it. All Industrial Recollection CDs are Awesome, Fucking Glad that they are avaible.
Re-issues Like the Metal Music Overflood i don't like too much. But in the End, there is a Market for it and its better Rereleased as some Insane Ebay Prices. What i won't understand when the re Issue is lots Bader and Uglier than the Original. Won't get in My mind. And these New Interpretation Kind like Gorgoroth, Burzum ect..in my Eyes little bit useless after all...
Edit:
The Newest TG/PTV Re Issues are also not my Cup of Tea or these Premature Ejaculation Stuff on CDR
Quote from: KMusselman on January 30, 2012, 10:07:51 PM
Of course I missed out on items over the years and was glad to see a reissue of something I missed. I guess the problem I have is with reissued material that is not the same as the original. The bonus material and the better sound quality takes value away from the original. It almost makes the original inferior. Does that make sense?
You have some concrete examples to give from noise?
But yeah, I don't like too much "re-master" re-issues or changed artworks etc. My goal as maker of re-issues, is to keep them same. Not re-vision, not re-make, but just have recording available on CD as accurately as-it-was.
All Whitehouse CD's are properly re-issued. All the LP's were also more "professional" looking than the old originals. I don't think they did harmed owning the original in any way? I doubt many will cry over Genocide Organ 1st LP with remastered sound + two bonus tracks IF they actually hold original LP in their shelves? etc..
Personally I really don't mind bonus tracks. Like the recent Grunt/Taint reissue. I have the lp and vinyl is the format of my choice, so I'd anyhow listen mainly to the vinyl album. No need for the cd, despite the one track I don't have.
On most of the reissue cd's I have (non-noise) there is some bonus material, which I usually just skip over. Apart from some rare compilation tracks or b-sides, bonus material is hardly worth playing on its own right.
Vinyls I wish to be as close to the original as possible. New, 'more like it was meant to be' mixes or cover arts..nah. There are some rock-albums I would like to see a less 80s mix, though. On cd, mere 1:1 reissue of tape/lp often looks cheap, and indeed they are cheap to produce. Eg. the Zero Cabal compilations look really cheap on cd, as the tape art hardly transfers to a cd-size. But on the other hand, unless we are talking a real classic with certain effect, there is little to add. I don't think every reissue needs liner notes either.
In general I think reissues are great, and I buy them to have albums I otherwise wouldn't have a chance of owning. The only industrial reissues lately that annoyed me were the TG ones. Bonus tracks are CD only, but full liner notes are vinyl only? That's just evil.
I agree with Brad and a few others that re-issues are great, there have been some great re-issues on Vinyl-On-Demand and Harbinger Sound. Both labels have unearthed some classics..
No too certain about the recent TG re-issues, their back catalogue has been trawled over so many times now it all seems worthless.
While I can perhaps see the point of there, in some cases, being an overload in reissues I'd much rather have classics as well as overlooked gems made available again than a new album of lame shit from a bunch of old cunts jumping the reunion bandwagon.
Without really noticing I seem to have been buying quite a lot of re-issues of late!
The TG one's were very good and they did a great job with the mastering and the whole package! And it is nice to have everything on lp as some of my TG stuff is on cd( the mute grey area re-issues in the 90's)
DIJ nada...well one of my all time albums so I had to get this..not much in the way of extra's on my version ...but i know Dougy p released about 4 versions with different amounts of extras...only rich goth kids need apply
dome box set..again had the grey area cd re-issue decades back. Boxset is great...5lp's...re-mastered.. posters..inserts...match box full of black wedding confetti (??)
I think if something is going to re-issued..then it should be a great item and deliver something extra that the original didn't have, but without fucking with the music too much!!!.
I can see more "vinyl" re-issues in 2012 of classic industrial. I think NWW / C93 are all digging up their old masters...and whenever the coil estate gets into the right hands it wouldn't surprise me to see all their back catalogue avaliable again.
We spit on their graves and awake are due very soon and i will look forward to seeing what they turn out like.
I think that box sets at reasonable prices can also be a great way to do re-issues. For example:
Incapacitants - Pariah Tapes (Freak Animal)
Incapacitants - Box is Stupid (Pica Disk)
I'd probably never pick up more than handful of these discs if released separately but as boxed sets, especially with nice linear notes/packaging it's totally worth it. It also helped I got a great price on Box is Stupid :P
And as others have said, the Industrial Recollections re-issues are always welcome.
Quote from: ironfistofthesun on January 31, 2012, 06:47:12 PM
The TG one's were very good and they did a great job with the mastering and the whole package! And it is nice to have everything on lp as some of my TG stuff is on cd( the mute grey area re-issues in the 90's)
I can see more "vinyl" re-issues in 2012 of classic industrial. I think NWW / C93 are all digging up their old masters...and whenever the coil estate gets into the right hands it wouldn't surprise me to see all their back catalogue avaliable again.
All that is in my realm of "is it really necessary?". For cashing in on the old catalogue to collectors yes, but musically??? The CD's released by the Grey Area weren't enough? To me they certainly are.
Haha, DiJ. How many reissues does one need from that twat? He's proving himself even more embarrassing than the "piggies" he's cried about for the last 15 years where milking his back catalogue is concerned.
My 20 jazz funk greats was fucking battered. Had the insert poster on my wall for years as a kid..now lost. So i had to get it again.
Also my tastes are for vinyl, so where i can i buy/re buy on lp.
http://blog.discogs.com/2010/02/top-100-music-w-highest-selling-price.html
some familiar names on the list...maybe re-issues are the good guys (as opposed to paying overblown discogs/ebay prices
QuoteI think that box sets at reasonable prices can also be a great way to do re-issues. I'd probably never pick up more than handful of these discs if released separately but as boxed sets, especially with nice linear notes/packaging it's totally worth it.
That's how I see it too. I can understand that a collector who has original tapes or vinyl from the 80s, for example, is not happy that some of this stuff is being re-released, often with extra material/liner notes/deluxe packaging and for a decent price, but on the other hand there are probably more people who don't have this stuff in the first place and don't have the money (or wouldn't want to anyway) to buy the originals. And I guess the original release will always be worth more than the re-release, when it comes to price tags.
I must admit I'm a sucker for nicely put together box sets. The already mentioned
Box is Stupid by
Incapacitants is a top notch job (and so are the other boxes on Pica, by
Kevin Drumm and
Government Alpha). The
Controlled Bleeding and
Colin Potter boxes on Ultra Mail Prod are nice too. The
Early Works C.C.C.C. box comes to mind too. And the
Merzbox. The list could go on... and of course non-boxed reissues are nice too, like the
Hijokaidan reissues on Alchemy or the classic
M.B. albums on Ees't.
I personally don't prefer "nostalgia box sets". I like when release is a valid release of this time, not just document of something. This is problem with a lot of music re-issues. It's not just repressing on suitable format, but re-make. You will not get the album, but you get document of the album. Liner notes, changed art, possibly changed sound, and so on. It gives impression as if the album isn't really worth it, other than as documenting it's historical value. I rather would just see albums released as-it-is, same as it always was. Not document of someone's sentimental memories.
I would guess this is one reason why some people do hunt for originals. Simply because they were the real deal. Even if lacking (=read: because) the modern 0dB flat mastering and liner notes.
I guess it is little extra work, to changes ones originals to new editions if one wants to. I would assume in most of cases, the original does not lose the value. Often just the opposite. When more people hear material, collector value may even rise.
For example the Slogun re-issue 2xCD is probably way cheaper than the money you can get from selling away originals. I see discogs prices of some of those businesscard cdr's starts from 18 euros. With selling the 4 CDR's, you not only get funds for this new Slogun 2xCD, but probably 2-5 other new releases? Same applies for all the tape re-issues. To sell original tape, not only you get funds to buy CD re-issue, but probably couple other discs! Of course it demands the mentality of trading/selling... And thinking what is the value of each release. Some would most likely prefer the hand made/hand assembled packaging, directly bought from artists, than any "improved" re-issue.
For example Vinyl On Demand issued statement about stopping distribution of other labels, and his dislike about re-issues, since those re-issues and re-pressings of sold out titles disappoints fans and collectors. It is strange statement from label committed exclusively to re-issues of rarities and obscurities.
If someone really gets his motivation from collecting "rarities" and doesn't want other people to have them, I'm 100% ready to disappoint them any day any moment. It should not be about collectors worrying about decreasing value or disappearing "obscurity", but getting good and inspiring stuff heard by people. I think in past not so many people were so concerned about the potential re-sale value, but simply getting records to listen to. Now it seems to me, for a lot of people, it's most of all the "collectors value" and "re-sale potential" which determines what they buy. Partly as reaction to that, I stopped announcing size of editions of releases. While it would probably add "collectors value" to number many CD's/LP's to mere 100-200 copies, it seems unnecessary. I rather have people buy stuff just for the music, not because of collector potential.
QuoteNow it seems to me, for a lot of people, it's most of all the "collectors value" and "re-sale potential" which determines what they buy
That is the Main Problem of all Scenes who are Considering "Underground" Mentality. I don't think for Myself, that an "Original" Tape is "the real deal", cause i don't care about an 100% Original Collector Proof. The Tape is no Old Collector Coin with certificate for me. But for many People it seems more Important to have an "Original" for good Money instead of the Music itself. As Example it were no Problem to get Con Dom or Grey Wolves Tapes. They were released and dubbed in several Ways. Now all People hold their Tapes and want Insane Money Prices for the Tapes, cause is CVLT. Where is the Point to spend 30€ for a Grey Wolves Tape, which were dubbed Hundred Times 15 Years ago? I see not the Point in it. Same will all kind of Metal Demos. Old Death Metal Demos were Music to spread around. Not selling it on Ebay as "Real Deal" for Hundred Euros.
For this the Re-Issues make absolute Sense, cause it will Lower the Prices at all. Ironically (again more the Bigger Scenes like Metal) react of this and sell now several Collector Presses of the same. 4-6 different Colour Versions of one LP is Common now and they sell over the Time. Of course all are limited to absolute nothing. 6 Different Colours and each Lim. 100 Ulver, Samael, Tiamat LPs are really funny.
In the End, its mostly for $$ and not for the Value of the Money. Glady, in Noise/P:e is not so much and the Mentality is also not for too much Collecting, or i'm wrong with this?
Let's be honest. The limited to super limited editions are a tactic for labels to get their money back quickly as well as being a fucking curse for the whole genre. A label or artist could release the hottest shit of the year and if it's not limited enough (or a big enough name) it won't move for anything. Not because people don't like it or lack interest but because they are busy buying up every limited to zilch release that could possibly be of interest to them and ran of of money for this month. "We'll get it next month. Guess what, the new limited to zilch from label/artist such and such just arrived and oh fuck me didn't that bunch just stick a new lathe out as well. Shit, seems money is scarce this month too. And the next and so forth. What release was that I wanted again? Oh yeah, plenty of copies of that I see, phew. Oh shit, here come the limited batches my way again, better hold on to my fillings...". And there's the label who wanted to make a good release available to as many as possible with huge stock and no money to release anything else for at least another year.
Where did it start, where does it end? Who's to blame? Labels? Artists? Buyers? All of us?
I understand labels for doing it and I understand buyers for not wanting to miss out on something they will potentially like but I don't think it's doing anyone much good in the long run. I have no solution to offer and I'm pointing my finger at nothing and no one.
Don't forget to mention, that the Music is avaible anytime for free now. So the lim. Editions are only for Collection Stuff. I know several People who tried to bring this "Underground Mentality" with the Limitation, since not so much People could buy it. But in the End it maked no Sense, since its Music and the Musical Taste can/will change. So People sell/trade/gifted the Stuff and the Price Idioty begins again.
You can Blame all together. The Labels want Money for next Releases or even to exist. The Customer want something "Special" cause its "Underground" and the Artist can say he have lots of Sold Out Releases=Big Band. In the worst Case it is so.
The Price Politics are also a Matter how all works wrong. Some Labels have every Year (or the Whole Year) Sale Outs. Its very Good for the Customers, since they spare lots of Money. But from the Mentality, why spend 12€-14€ for a New Unlimited Release when i can be sure, that i get it after some Time for 4,99€ in a Blow Out Sale? But all Unlimited Releases will surely Suffer under that, cause which Mailorder want this Stuff again in the Mailorder or how could the Label sell the Stuff for Normal Price, when others have All Year Special Prices?
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 04, 2012, 01:06:10 PM
I personally don't prefer "nostalgia box sets". I like when release is a valid release of this time, not just document of something. This is problem with a lot of music re-issues. It's not just repressing on suitable format, but re-make. You will not get the album, but you get document of the album. Liner notes, changed art, possibly changed sound, and so on. It gives impression as if the album isn't really worth it, other than as documenting it's historical value. I rather would just see albums released as-it-is, same as it always was. Not document of someone's sentimental memories.
This isn't clear situation and we can doubt it. If you decide to reissue old cassette on CD format as-it-is, same it always was, this is only fiction, because THIS was a cassette, not CD. Different shape of booklet,different quality of sound, different circumstences/conditions of listening. Of course, somebody may say that these are only details, but other can say that REISSUE item after many years can be considered as a new look for old release. OLD RELEASE which was recorded by not satisfied equipment (against will of author), without other technical/printing limitations which were 20 or 30 years ago, now author of this music can do it much more perfect, according with his original vision. Why not?
Quote from: Goat93 on February 04, 2012, 08:05:55 PM
Don't forget to mention, that the Music is avaible anytime for free now. So the lim. Editions are only for Collection Stuff. I know several People who tried to bring this "Underground Mentality" with the Limitation, since not so much People could buy it. But in the End it maked no Sense, since its Music and the Musical Taste can/will change. So People sell/trade/gifted the Stuff and the Price Idioty begins again.
You can Blame all together. The Labels want Money for next Releases or even to exist. The Customer want something "Special" cause its "Underground" and the Artist can say he have lots of Sold Out Releases=Big Band. In the worst Case it is so.
The Price Politics are also a Matter how all works wrong. Some Labels have every Year (or the Whole Year) Sale Outs. Its very Good for the Customers, since they spare lots of Money. But from the Mentality, why spend 12€-14€ for a New Unlimited Release when i can be sure, that i get it after some Time for 4,99€ in a Blow Out Sale? But all Unlimited Releases will surely Suffer under that, cause which Mailorder want this Stuff again in the Mailorder or how could the Label sell the Stuff for Normal Price, when others have All Year Special Prices?
All true and valid additional points to what I said. I agree all the way but I'd rather bow out here and not get sucked in any further. I'll just get wound up otherwise.
an era when reissues became pure folly and revisionist dysfunction. Hollow collector gesture. "curator" label carpetbagging. Buy the boxes and go back to the MP3s. Complete lack of discerning, critical thinking for it is nothing more than something to consume.
Going by his words, but not having seen an Industrial Recollections in person, I appreciate FreakAnimalFinland's approach. Pretty fucking simple stuff...if you do it right.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 04, 2012, 01:06:10 PMYou will not get the album, but you get document of the album. Liner notes, changed art, possibly changed sound, and so on. It gives impression as if the album isn't really worth it, other than as documenting it's historical value. I rather would just see albums released as-it-is, same as it always was. Not document of someone's sentimental memories.
I have to disagree about the liner notes. As I am interested about the artists vision, read the interviews etc., it is nice to read some recollections about the work being reissued. Or what someone else thought of it when it first came out. Well done such liner notes are truly extra, without ruining the record as bonus tracks, remastering or new cover art does. Any reissue, however, cannot be 1:1 with the original done 10+ years ago, and more certainly not if the format is changed from tape to vinyl or from vinyl to cd.
Of course one could say that 'zines or blogs are for the liner notes, but it is still quite unlikely to see an interview / memoirs / essay to appear hand-in-hand with the reissue. At least not in the underground, where the labels don't force their catalog on the pages of the music media.
I actually do have some records both original and reissue due the liner notes. If the difference is just bonus track or two, I've tend to sell the reissues as soon I've got the original.
Reissues are always a touchy subject it seems. Either artist/label offers reissue as a bare bones no frill version or give the release the red carpet treatment and someone will ultimately always complain. I can personally understand both sides to the coin but in most cases I find myself prefering a straight forward reissue with little to no remastering, artwork similar to original, etc. I guess this is more of the clear difference between audio restoration vs. remastering itself? Ultimately as long as the label and artist involved are happy with end result that is all that matters. For those who wish to complain they can always seek out the "prefered" version of release.
For example, the somewhat recent Club Moral material on the VoD box set was remastered pretty piss poor. Compare DDV's "Sound Atlas Of Venereology" excerpts on VoD against the reissue I handled on Trash Ritual (CD format) for best example. VoD's remastering included altering the sound itself to remove high pitch frequencies that were present on the original recordings. I honestly can't speak on why such drastic remastering was done as I am sure the master material presented to both VoD as well as Trash Ritual was the same (yet end results are quite drastic).
Quote from: trashritual on February 06, 2012, 03:32:26 AMFor example, the somewhat recent Club Moral material on the VoD box set was remastered pretty piss poor. Compare DDV's "Sound Atlas Of Venereology" excerpts on VoD against the reissue I handled on Trash Ritual (CD format) for best example. VoD's remastering included altering the sound itself to remove high pitch frequencies that were present on the original recordings. I honestly can't speak on why such drastic remastering was done as I am sure the master material presented to both VoD as well as Trash Ritual was the same (yet end results are quite drastic).
GZ pressing? The result of DMM? Or are you guessing there was an actual remastering?
VOD is laquer cut I believe, pressed in Germany. He doesn't use GZ.
Quote from: trashritual on February 06, 2012, 03:32:26 AM
For example, the somewhat recent Club Moral material on the VoD box set was remastered pretty piss poor. Compare DDV's "Sound Atlas Of Venereology" excerpts on VoD against the reissue I handled on Trash Ritual (CD format) for best example. VoD's remastering included altering the sound itself to remove high pitch frequencies that were present on the original recordings. I honestly can't speak on why such drastic remastering was done as I am sure the master material presented to both VoD as well as Trash Ritual was the same (yet end results are quite drastic).
This is also a good Example for this Collecting Stuff. Since the CD's were out (and i'm very Happy about it), the VoD Box have the same 2 New Re Issues (mit neuen Waffen & Sound Atlas) in it. I don't see the Point, why these are in the Box instead of other Material?
Quote from: trashritual on February 06, 2012, 03:32:26 AM
For example, the somewhat recent Club Moral material on the VoD box set was remastered pretty piss poor. Compare DDV's "Sound Atlas Of Venereology" excerpts on VoD against the reissue I handled on Trash Ritual (CD format) for best example. VoD's remastering included altering the sound itself to remove high pitch frequencies that were present on the original recordings. I honestly can't speak on why such drastic remastering was done as I am sure the master material presented to both VoD as well as Trash Ritual was the same (yet end results are quite drastic).
Belgium is small, why not just ask DDV ?
-same masters were used, VOD remastered them in Sweden (?), TR left the master untouched. The remastering seemed necessary for a vinyl release (the two 10"s were also remastered).
he recommends a 1:1 comparison lol
TR left the master untouched? I would recheck the CD as this is not true at all. This is a clear case of audio restoration vs. obtrusive remastering.
As mentioned previously i have no problem with remastering when it is done right. The Club Moral set on VoD unfortunately doesn't fall under this with removal of punchy frequencies for example. Check the track Atmungen for the damage down during VoD's remastering.
obtusive remastering
Yeah, I'm getting nothing from googling "Obtusive Remastering"...can someone help here?
It's a play on words. Obtuse can mean dull or insensitive, so we are talking about remastering that is dull, insensitive to the original or blunts the original mastering.
It seems the opinions here are mainly those of more or less "serious" collectors -- people who have rare original stuff from, say, the 80s, or people who are focused on a certain genre or genres and have a nice collection of releases from that genre/genres. But I guess there are also people like me who never got around to owning what's considered collectible nowadays (like 80s PE/industrial or obscure tapes of 90s Jap noise) due to various reasons (they were too young when these releases came out/didn't have the money for them/don't have the money now/didn't know about the scene in such depth etc.) and are also not collectors who focus on a genre so in depth.
I myself like a fair amount of different musical styles and can't afford to focus on any of them in particular in terms of buying releases. For example, as much as I'd like to buy some Whitehouse CDs (the highest priority being New Britain and Buchenwald) or some classic 90s-era Merzbow (Green Wheels, Noisembryo), for the price I'd be buying them for I could buy several more Univers Zero CDs (a current favourite of mine) or Creel Pone CDs. So because I don't have a lot of money to spend on music, I have to rationalize -- and I'll buy stuff that's cheaper, knowing I'll like it the same as I would the more expensive stuff. I suppose I'm not alone with this.
It also follows there are releases that, as much as I'd like to buy them, are way out of my price league, and so in the foreseeable future I won't be buying them. A good example is the VoD releases. I'd love to have them because I could explore new bands and artists, but for the price of one release (doesn't matter how many LPs it consists of) I could buy way more CDs (buying vinyl is rare for me due to brutal shipping costs to Australia... as for tapes, I haven't dared venture into that world as there are too many CDs to buy as it is).
acsenger
Try Different Shop Options, like Ebay or Discogs ect ect. With this i bought many Whitehouse and Merzbow CD/LP Stuff for Cheap prices over the Years. 2nd Hand Buying is generelly a good Option to get your Wants. But be patient, the Stuff will Pop Up in Times, most people want the Stuff now and so the Prices rises to Insane Dimensions.
For bands like Whitehouse, the albums in my collection are basically whatever random albums I've found at reasonable prices over the years. In 2010, a popular online shop was selling Halogen, Mummy and Daddy and Bird Seed new for $10 each, so I ordered them. They're sold out now, of course.
I don't think many Susan Lawly regular CD's are hard task? Of course one would hope label would re-press the titles, since there obviously is endless demand. Perhaps small, but still always there.
meanwhile.. you know, www.discogs.com
check Susan Lawly, click releases for sale... lets see..
Halogen 6 euro.
Mommy & daddy 9 euro
Birthdeah experience 12 euro
Erector 12 euro
Buchenwald 16 euro
... of course little by little you get to 20,- /each CD rates, which is still pretty much what they used to cost anyway. And, lets say any Whitehouse is 20,- good if one can just afford 20,-
I got carried away by saying I could buy several other CDs for the price of a Whitehouse CD, because indeed many of them are available for decent prices, but the one I really want, New Britain, is going for shocking prices at the moment: Susan Lawly doesn't have it, Ebay has one for $150 and Discogs has one for 45 euros. Of course, I know that I have to be patient as it will probably turn up for a more decent price sooner or later, and there are probably other websites to check that I don't know about. But what I'm saying is even if I could buy it now for, say, $35 including postage, I wouldn't. $35 is probably a price many collectors wouldn't consider a lot, but I personally couldn't justify spending it on one CD when I could buy two others for that amount. I don't really have albums that I listen to every couple weeks, so for me a CD just can't be that good.
I hope thinking this way will keep me from becoming like one of the characters in the film Vinyl :)...
Quote from: acsenger on February 13, 2012, 07:33:36 AM
I got carried away by saying I could buy several other CDs for the price of a Whitehouse CD, because indeed many of them are available for decent prices, but the one I really want, New Britain, is going for shocking prices at the moment: Susan Lawly doesn't have it, Ebay has one for $150 and Discogs has one for 45 euros. Of course, I know that I have to be patient as it will probably turn up for a more decent price sooner or later, and there are probably other websites to check that I don't know about. But what I'm saying is even if I could buy it now for, say, $35 including postage, I wouldn't. $35 is probably a price many collectors wouldn't consider a lot, but I personally couldn't justify spending it on one CD when I could buy two others for that amount. I don't really have albums that I listen to every couple weeks, so for me a CD just can't be that good.
I hope thinking this way will keep me from becoming like one of the characters in the film Vinyl :)...
i bought mine for 5e together with a Whitehouse Lot on Ebay some Years ago. Were 6 or 7 CD's, at all each one 5€. Be Patient and you will get it, since the Whitehouse CDs are only "out of stock" but not "limited". So they will be repressed for sure.
Or try to Trade for other Stuff you don't like anymore, its often easier to Trade than to Buy.
i have no problems with reissues if properly done. Most of the times i ended up buying the reissues even if i have the originals. CD reissue of tapes and vinyls preserve the original from heavy playing degradation etc. Other times i enjoy to hear the same material on different formats and sometimes i can say it's worth having both. For example Macro "Pittsburgh, PA" is worth on LP, CD and on tape too!
Haven't read all posts, but most pros and cons have already been covered I guess. Being highly uninterested in owning the "proper" edition of a release, I lack everything needed to become a collector (especially the economy). As long as I own one copy of an official release, I'm fine. Re-releasing long since OOP material, be it a GREY WOLVES tape or some obscure psych rock album is always a good thing, as long as it's done according to the original creator's wishes (that is, not corrupting the original work completely, which a lot of re-issues do, especially in the traditional rock genre; my copy of Black Sabbath's TYR album released by the Classic Rock magazine is atrocious).
One post that caught my mind was Mikko's mentioning of reissues as often being documents of a work rather than the work itself (though theoretically the physical release might in itself be considered a document of a musical performance), which is true for most re-issues of classic prog rock for example, with extensive archive material (news clippings, never before seen photos), extensive liner-notes by witty music journalists (if you're lucky, by someone in the band), and worst of all, a long row of alternate takes and live tracks. Of course, it's hit and miss; some of it might be very interesting (b-sides and unreleased songs for example), but how many versions of Angel Dust do you need, when all you want is the proper Black Metal album? What I dislike the most is when the original liner-notes & artwork isn't featured at all. Not that a gatefold compressed into a cd booklet spread gives away much; rather do a completely new layout, with the original information still present. Too bad that a lot of these 70's reissues (besides perhaps the first cd prints from the late 80's which didn't have this archive/document mindset yet) are done in "classics series" with the same bland layout for all the albums reissued, even by different bands. Most of all when the booklet contains information about other releases in the series (Charly reissues of Magma albums come to mind... awful, especially since they are known rip-offs that won't pay the musicians a dime in royalties).
Fortunately, noise & industrial seems to generally have much better taste. IR is a good example, as is the Hospital reissue of Grey Wolves, of a more archival mindset - the original crude tape layout preserved. Either that, or a completely new envisioning of the original work (in cooperation with the artist, preferably).
The latter might be more interesting from an artistic point of view. Soundwise I don't really care, as long as it's somewhat close to the original. If there is a change in format, the sound will be different either way. I'd get as much out of a King Crimson album on a second hand tape as this monster: http://www.discogs.com/King-Crimson-In-The-Court-Of-The-Crimson-King-An-Observation-By-King-Crimson/release/1967769
Quote from: ARKHE on February 15, 2012, 10:37:31 PMI'd get as much out of a King Crimson album on a second hand tape as this monster: http://www.discogs.com/King-Crimson-In-The-Court-Of-The-Crimson-King-An-Observation-By-King-Crimson/release/1967769
hold on now
Quote from: Zeno Marx on February 16, 2012, 06:27:19 AM
Quote from: ARKHE on February 15, 2012, 10:37:31 PMI'd get as much out of a King Crimson album on a second hand tape as this monster: http://www.discogs.com/King-Crimson-In-The-Court-Of-The-Crimson-King-An-Observation-By-King-Crimson/release/1967769
hold on now
OK maybe that's stretching it. But I'm not upgrading my Indonesian tape version of Manowar's Kings of Metal (licensed, so it's an official release) for some fancy-ass remastered 2012 vinyl. The older the copy the better. But that's straying from the main subject reissues.
Is there anyone putting out strictly cassette reissues of classics in noise/industrial/PE in the vein of the Industrial Recollections reissues? Would love to have some reasonable priced, well-duplicated, simple j-card versions of certain releases.
Klanggalerie reissues Korpses Katatonik......so i don't have to pay 60euro's for the Staalplaat cd lol
For those people who follow Vinyl-on-Demand... I was thinking about getting the Mark Lane 2xLP. Worth picking up? I've only heard a little bit of his stuff but I really like all that I've heard. In general I'm a big fan of the whole minimal synth/wave/coldwave type shit.
Recently been thinking the sense of many of the re-issues. This topic is already 3 pages of stuff, but one thing what seems to need to be addressed again would be:
Quote from: ARKHE on February 15, 2012, 10:37:31 PM
What I dislike the most is when the original liner-notes & artwork isn't featured at all. Not that a gatefold compressed into a cd booklet spread gives away much; rather do a completely new layout, with the original information still present.
I was looking into Mauthausen Orchestra tape box. 12 tape box was once done by Slaughter productions. All tapes with individual artworks. Needless to say: Explicit artwork, what made old Italian power electronics/noise stand out like utterly vile & exploitative. While many older UK acts would be subtle, band like M.O. would just put straight forward anal sex close-up in front cover. That's crucial element of it.
When Slaughter prod reissued the stuff, it was not replicas of the old. Not at all. It was made to look like Slaughter productions style, but still, had many of the original rough artworks slightly re-done. Typically just uniform typography applied to uniform lay-out based on (mostly) original artwork. So what's with the new Urashima re-issue of 12 tape box? Technically perhaps more professional. Silver silkscreened box, and factory dubbed tapes with silkscreened artworks. But what the hell?! No j-cards with artworks?! Box artwork is just saying "M.O." in font that band never used. It looks like more of assemble-yourself furniture kit from IKEA than honoring the utmost explicit power electronics masterpieces.
And I appreciate Urashima for his great cultural works for the forgotten tapes and satisfying the needs of vinyl listeners. But, and that is a big BUT, I'm heavily questioning what is the sense of revisionism? Original tapes look AMAZING. And now when you strip them down to factory duplicated bulk tapes with no artwork.... what's the point?
Same could be said about S&Q reissue of two first albums. There albums are among the very best of S&Q discography. Not only musically, but jesus christ, have you seen the debut album artwork?! It's such an brutal item, that to do justice for the album, it felt really lame to be presented in format of "two for price of one" type EMI reissue, where you have like 4x4cm thumbnails of album covers printed on front sleeve. You know, I may be wrong, I may not be expert in all fields, but my gut feeling is that people wanted the album. Not document of album. Not cover what documents how album looked like in little pictures, but presenting those masterpieces as-it-was.
I'm sure, some of these releases are in climate we live today, over-the-top. Some of releases are also often displays of craftmanship of fanatic teenagers, not professional graphic designers. But I tend to think, fuck the "professional designers". I always rather choose personal and crude over someone who is misguided about supremacy of Helvetica fonts or at worst, absolute garbage of photoshop glow effects and whatnot.
All these releases, I of course recommend to get - for sake of greatness of their music. It's about time S&Q albums got reissued. Not all things I did in past are perfect by any means. Be it old releases I'd hope to "revision" (haha, but hope I can avoid such temptation), and reissues which could have turned a notch better. But nevertheless, I'm fully aware of few mistakes which I hope not to repeat again. I'd hope other labels could learn to respect the works what made such an impact on them that they'd present it to next generation as it was. Not tainted too much by vision of current aesthetic of "outsider".
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 16, 2016, 01:14:29 PM
I was looking into Mauthausen Orchestra tape box. 12 tape box was once done by Slaughter productions. All tapes with individual artworks. Needless to say: Explicit artwork, what made old Italian power electronics/noise stand out like utterly vile & exploitative. While many older UK acts would be subtle, band like M.O. would just put straight forward anal sex close-up in front cover. That's crucial element of it.
When Slaughter prod reissued the stuff, it was not replicas of the old. Not at all. It was made to look like Slaughter productions style, but still, had many of the original rough artworks slightly re-done. Typically just uniform typography applied to uniform lay-out based on (mostly) original artwork. So what's with the new Urashima re-issue of 12 tape box? Technically perhaps more professional. Silver silkscreened box, and factory dubbed tapes with silkscreened artworks. But what the hell?! No j-cards with artworks?! Box artwork is just saying "M.O." in font that band never used. It looks like more of assemble-yourself furniture kit from IKEA than honoring the utmost explicit power electronics masterpieces.
And I appreciate Urashima for his great cultural works for the forgotten tapes and satisfying the needs of vinyl listeners. But, and that is a big BUT, I'm heavily questioning what is the sense of revisionism? Original tapes look AMAZING. And now when you strip them down to factory duplicated bulk tapes with no artwork.... what's the point?
THIS!!!
When seeing the email with the announcement I was immediately excited, but the enthusiasm faded quickly when noticing the art work. Nothing against bleakness in general, but in this case it's a massive downgrade. I don't have the Slaughter Box, but have seen enough pics to attest juiciness to the whole packaging and artwork.
Also, I asked myself what would make this a "must buy" item. People who don't see physicality as a necessity surely have the MP3s, Youtube rips or whatever and others may already have many albums on Urashima vinyl or CD rerelease. So artwork would have been a crucial factor, especially because of the original / previous releases all having it. As stupid as it sounds, I decided not to buy this Version but would surely have instantly purchased it, had it been done like the Slaughter Box. Maybe the mere fact that it offers so much less than any other release by MO is the sole reason.
Urashima does some great reissues and releases some excellent music, but I have always had problems with their presentation. Same boring artwork and layout on basically every LP. And can someone explain what is going on with the label logo? Comic Sans font? Really? Put a little more effort into the artwork and presentation of these classic records please and do them justice.
I understand people's complaints about the artwork and presentation style of Urashima releases in general, especially this Orgies of Crime box that was just released. The art was a crucial part of the original releases, however, Urashima has seemingly never reproduced the original art for these reissues, so it should be no surprise that it is the same case for this box. I wouldn't even say that I particularly like the Urashima aesthetic, but I still respect that they have been strict with the presentation of their releases, and I'm grateful to be able to own physical copies of a lot of these reissues (not too much of a digital listener myself) which would be very hard or impossible to obtain original copies of in the first place.
Quote from: BlackHole on October 16, 2016, 09:26:17 PM
Urashima does some great reissues and releases some excellent music, but I have always had problems with their presentation. Same boring artwork and layout on basically every LP.
for me the omologation of layout is a strong point of the label and in fact I'm a little disappointed when it changes with white layout for the latest reprints.
a similar example can be the graphics of the label sacred bones
Re-issues are cool and all, but, if there is no original artwork, it can fuck off.
Quote from: whiteheatnoise on October 16, 2016, 09:45:45 PM
The art was a crucial part of the original releases, however, Urashima has seemingly never reproduced the original art for these reissues, so it should be no surprise that it is the same case for this box.
I'm fine with all the new releases. There are many new releases, that are not re-issues. Label style works for that, as it is "like intended".
This constitutes perhaps at least 1/3 or half of labels output. Re-issues, you got several which utilize original artworks. For example MASONNA and TAINT takes a lot from original GROSS presentations. TAINT "just meat" is replica, just as VIDNA OBMANA, JASON CRUMER, SLOGUN, IUGULA THOR/SRS split, MURDER CORPORATION, MERZBOW, etc. follow almost replica of the original artwork. Even many Atrax Morgue are the original. Closed Exit, Exterminate, Estetik of A Corpse, etc are actually probably
better than originals - but also using the original graphic material. Some stuff, like MB "Regel" LP is very faithful for original as well. In the end, from A LOT of releases, it's fraction where artwork is completely rejected.
So I would not blame label on never reproducing original art - as they actually do for most part. Rejecting the original seems to be mostly applied to Italian veterans and most notably MB, MO, and related. Of course one can see why something such as MB "industrial tape" or "atomique tape" is not simply blown up to LP size. But already "Voyeur tape" original looks so much better than reissues did (apart from Murder Release version). However, most M.O. isn't shitty or lazy, but originally brilliant graphics. That's what makes me react on it as it doesn't appear as something clumsily thrown in front of demo tape, but actually intrinsic part of release.
Same as with S&Q "jesus christ". Album cover is still - or should it be said, especially in 2016 something rather outrageously iconic for album cover, that if it's ruined, it doesn't seem just poor choice but desecration.
This discussion about altered artwork reminded me of The Sodality reissue Urashima did and the disappointing artwork it has... Solution: Just purchased the original CD to accompany it.
I'm thankful to UMA for all the reissues but some aesthetic choices are indeed quite strange to me.
As FreakAnimal said, urashima aesthetic works wonderfully for the original releases as well as for the re releases that utilize either original graphics or stay faithful to the original. My issue is with things like some M.B or M.O releases which cover artwork seems completely unrelated to the music or the title of the release. None of the 'tape' re-releases of M.B's work on Urashima have artwork that would visualize words like industrial or cold or voueyr very well. It feels like theres just some random images that kinda look like it fits to the general aesthetic of the genre without consideration for how well it actually works with the release itself. Same with 'Taint - Strange Feeling' lp. I don't think taint ever used that kind of japanese bondage aesthetic on his releases. I feel its a bit too 'artsy' for something like taint, heh.
As for releases where urashima aesthetic really works, I must personally highlight both bizarre uproar releases. I find that those have pretty much the best design urashima has put out thus far. While they arent simply copied from the tapes, they still contain the same atmosphere and feeling as the original artwork. Especially the likainen ehtoollinen tape, which I feel might be even superior to the original, being much more direct.
As for the M.O tape box, does it come with a booklet or such? Maybe the related artwork has simply been relegated to the booklet. Hard to tell without owning a copy and seeing that personally this feels inferior to the slaughter prod release, I don't think I even will. Rather buy them on vinyl, even if the vinyl line misses some like personal favourite 'mafarka'. Is this kind of having booklet with artwork and having the tapes without it a right choice, ideal choice or even a good choice at all is probably best decided on individual basis.
Also, as before mentioned, the use of comic sans for the label logo seems bit strange to me but maybe thats the purpose?
i'm also very curious about the title of the new MO box..... why use the name of a Sodality song? A nod to (most of) the original tapes being released by Aquilifer Sodality?
Artwork for "Strange feeling, shit coming" couldn't be scanned from a release due to quality, etc.; it would have looked horrible. I guess. I offered to do new work that would reflect the title but didn't come up with anything & he was on a timeline. I should have rejected that image but to be perfectly honest, I didn't care.
For M.O./The Sodality, I think M.O. was involved with The Sodality as the early version of "T.N.L." on the Freedom in a Vacuum comp LP sounds like M.O. vocals. "Little Oral Linda" sounds a lot like M.O., too. Maybe someone in Italy can ask Andrea Cernotto?
Maybe the "Orgies of Crime" title originally came from M.O. ...? I just noticed the title of the new tape set. When I read Sterilization's comment, "T.N.L." was the first thing that popped into my head.
Has S&Q's Jesus Christ been reissued?
Quote from: aububs on October 26, 2016, 08:28:44 AMHas S&Q's Jesus Christ been reissued?
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=7165.0
Quote from: Scat-O-Logy on October 26, 2016, 08:32:08 AM
Quote from: aububs on October 26, 2016, 08:28:44 AMHas S&Q's Jesus Christ been reissued?
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=7165.0
ah, thanks.
i'm sure you all know but the original LP is still available for not unreasonable prices. nice to see it on CD, but grabbing the LP is a no-brainer.
It would be difficult having 15 different collaborators, but a (double) CD reissue of "Violent Ambient" (Chocolate Monk, 1994) would be great.
www.discogs.com/release/696709-Various-Violent-Ambient