Let's finally end all the discussions:
Fill it out here! (http://existest.org/ee_v3/?p=5257)
I think few questions will probably be quite obvious - depending genre of purchase.
"what you are buying the most" is probably about what is available. But it will be curious to see does that match to desire what one would prefer to buy.
I personally prioritise cassettes and vinyl over cd's. I have so big cassette and vinyl 'to buy' list already and I don't feel the need to clutter it up with cd's that I don't even like to listen to. Of course, this brings some problems with some bands, for example Militia. They make amazing music but most of their releases are only on cd's and that leaves me with little of their material. But in the end, most of what I want is avaible on my preferred formats and as such I don't feel the need to change my habits.
No, it's good. Please complete the survey even if you don't release anything. If you put what you would release IF you had a label it would be fine. Participation is key. Thank you!
If I am at a show I will buy whatever is available but if your asking me if if i had a choice of the same album on 3 formats, I would probably buy the vinyl before the cassette, and i would buy the cassette before I would buy the CD. I would would still buy the CD if the others was not available though. I always look at the time spent on artwork on the release in general..If it is just a blank cover with sharpie writing on it, I doubt I would buy any of it.
First things first - the music comes first. Whatever format you're offering, if I can play it, I'll buy it. Whether it's a bullshitly ornate sculpture with a tape stuck up its arse or a cdr decorated with a "sharpie", if your music interests me I'll want it.
Favourite format - online. MP3, FLAC or wave. Cheapest, easiest, most convenient, least hassle, best. No argument. This is how I like to put my own music out for those and other reasons, and I'm more likely to listen to yours as well if it's online.
Second favourite - cassette. I've always loved the convenience, warmth of sound, underdog status and universality of cassette. Still the only physical format you can re-use if you want to. Personal preference - anonymous cassettes of anonymous Noise left on trains, in laundromats, doctors' waiting rooms, etc. Many people these days don't use tapes (some don't even know how, I suspect) so there's a nice "fuck you normal people" aspect to it as well. The thought of some unsuspecting soul picking up a tape, actually listening to it and getting something from it is wonderful.
Third favourite - cdrs. Cheap, easy, convenient, little hassle. No argument. Pro pressed cdrs are good but I prefer to burn them at home. If there is an issue with longevity, just rip the damn music.
Fourth favourite - cds. Purchase only - sadly, in Australia one has to make over five hundred copies of an album to get cds manufactured as opposed to pro-pressed cdrs. Haven't found anywhere in this country that'll give you less than five hundred cds. But if you're putting out your music on cd, brilliant. Long lasting, great sound, convenient to post and to store. Not a great fan of jewel case for what that's worth, I prefer something smaller.
Least favourite - vynal. Costly to make, costly to post, costly to buy. Pretentious vanity items, really. Not that that'll stop me buying them, but I'd better want the music first.
I felt like there were a bit too many choices here. Cassette or Vinyl would have sufficed instead of "Cassette in plastic j-case pro-printed" or whatever. I personally like cassettes but don't really care if they are handmade, pro-printed or if they come in baggies, jewel cases, etc. although most my collection is mainly handmade (as far as I know).
didn't really like the survey, too many choices, too much te same......i buy what i like? no?
for me personally (sound above everything) :
i'm a sucker for
-a thick slab of loud vinyl in a pro sleeve.....or THICK cardboard with nice screenprinting on it.
-pro cd in jewelcase with booklet, i allways like booklets, crds etc lol
-make that a lp in gatefold with liner notes
what i really really hate :
-thin floppy vinyl
-artobject-releases, lathe's,
-simple folded lpsleeves is those re-sealable bags....they allways stick to the content!!! they tear etc etc
-pixel artwork
-cheap digipacks, with flimsy printing, thin cardboard, bad glue
-luxury foil-blocked reliëf etc digipacks....they look so tacky, so Death In June-isch.
-crappy dubs
-no-effort-cdr's....why bother, just put it online!
Quote from: P-K on June 14, 2012, 12:58:47 AM
didn't really like the survey, too many choices, too much te same......i buy what i like? no?
for me personally (sound above everything) :
i'm a sucker for
-a thick slab of loud vinyl in a pro sleeve.....or THICK cardboard with nice screenprinting on it.
-pro cd in jewelcase with booklet, i allways like booklets, crds etc lol
-make that a lp in gatefold with liner notes
what i really really hate :
-thin floppy vinyl
-artobject-releases, lathe's,
-simple folded lpsleeves is those re-sealable bags....they allways stick to the content!!! they tear etc etc
-pixel artwork
-cheap digipacks, with flimsy printing, thin cardboard, bad glue
-luxury foil-blocked reliëf etc digipacks....they look so tacky, so Death In June-isch.
-crappy dubs
-no-effort-cdr's....why bother, just put it online!
Gotta agree with you about 100%. The other thing I'm not a big fan of is oversized CD packaging that has no reason to be oversized, other than make it to big for a CD rack.
obscure/obsolete/anti-record formats (8track,floppy,microcassette,reel,VCD etc) > locked groove vinyl > 7" > 12"/other vinyl > pro cassette > mini-cd/r > lathe cut > DIY normal CDr > DIY cassette > youtube > MP3/download > pro CD > pro CDr > 1-sided anything without some art/gimmick/concept for the blank side.
Vinyl for more "grand" releases, tapes for more "low key" ones if that makes sense. I think CDs are best suited for music with a very digital or clean sound but usually I'd take tape over them. I'm proud to say I don't own a single lathe cut though, worse sound quality and I have to pay more? No thanks.
Quote from: Half Aborted on June 14, 2012, 09:08:23 PM
Vinyl for more "grand" releases, tapes for more "low key" ones if that makes sense. I think CDs are best suited for music with a very digital or clean sound
Quite much agreed. Tape I consider as somewhat ep's - fairy affortable, easy way to get know new artists and something I really don't expect to be the highest quality work of the artist. I somehow found it strange if certain record gets released first as tape and then very soon after as vinyl or cd - if the material is worth it, why not release the 'album' format in the first place.
CD-r's rot and for digital files I hardly have time, if interest.
Quote from: Ernpe on June 14, 2012, 09:20:37 PM
if the material is worth it, why not release the 'album' format in the first place.
One reason is, that band or someone release a tape, label heard it and thought "this is too good being ltd 50 copies!" and put out CD. It's very unlikely all material would go through variety of labels before decisions are made. I find that more than often, releases are just done randomly. Someone asks band does he want to do release, band says "ok". Release happens, and not always in most satisfactory ways.
Also having album released as tape/LP/CD(/download) appears to be the right way anyways. If it aim to get music heard, why not offer it in formats customer wants? So much people who don't want LP's. And those who absolutely hate CD's. And those who prefer tapes over everything. Why do "vinyl only" to only serve those who can afford and like that format? There used to be some logic in such, but I think the logic is gone if you intended that material is accessible and can be heard in way how
listener wants to experienced it.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 15, 2012, 08:57:26 AM
Quote from: Ernpe on June 14, 2012, 09:20:37 PM
if the material is worth it, why not release the 'album' format in the first place.
One reason is, that band or someone release a tape, label heard it and thought "this is too good being ltd 50 copies!" and put out CD. It's very unlikely all material would go through variety of labels before decisions are made. I find that more than often, releases are just done randomly. Someone asks band does he want to do release, band says "ok". Release happens, and not always in most satisfactory ways.
Also having album released as tape/LP/CD(/download) appears to be the right way anyways. If it aim to get music heard, why not offer it in formats customer wants? So much people who don't want LP's. And those who absolutely hate CD's. And those who prefer tapes over everything. Why do "vinyl only" to only serve those who can afford and like that format? There used to be some logic in such, but I think the logic is gone if you intended that material is accessible and can be heard in way how listener wants to experienced it.
I think it would be nice to actually have a choice in the matter when you are the customer, like many bigger bands in other type of genres I have seen them release vinyl with download card, CD, and cassette of the same release all at once. It would be smart to do that knowing you would have made everyone happy, but at same time very expensive doing multiple copies.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 15, 2012, 08:57:26 AM
Someone asks band does he want to do release, band says "ok". Release happens, and not always in most satisfactory ways.
Exactly. Sometimes I embroil myself in embarrassing situation because I begin with an offer to issue something but after listening arrived music I am not satisfy and I resign from this release.
Back to the topic, I don't favour any format. I think that CD is still the most usefull and popular medium. Personally I like tapes and recently I focus on that mainly.
ps. DIY lathe cut weird art objects by lathe cutting practitioners (Heresee, Wolf Eyes folks etc) very much > overpriced lathes some band paid Peter King to make for them (which i still kind of like too tho)
LAST DAY! VOTE TODAY TO GET YOUR VOTE IN.
Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on June 15, 2012, 12:30:11 PM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 15, 2012, 08:57:26 AM
Someone asks band does he want to do release, band says "ok". Release happens, and not always in most satisfactory ways.
Exactly. Sometimes I embroil myself in embarrassing situation because I begin with an offer to issue something but after listening arrived music I am not satisfy and I resign from this release.
This should happen a lot more often than it probably does.
I regret not being more rigid about quality. I did turn down a couple releases after a certain artist was coming off their finest work yet, but they changed their style and focus after that benchmark. It isn't a choice I regret. If handled well, the label doesn't suffer, nor does the ego of the artist.
A good remedy for this is, when making an offer, being as specific as possible. Format, length, speed of record if it applies, theme/focus/content, pressing numbers, royalties, etc. My first offer letters were something like "I love your band. Interested in doing a record?" After a couple of those, I realized how sloppy I was being, and the releases suffered from that. From then on, the letters were highly detailed and sometimes a couple pages long. I found the artists appreciated the amount of thought and planning from my end, and they also appreciated ideas and parameters. Not once did I get feedback of "This sounds like you want to control what we're doing." The ambiguous creates a clusterfuck. People react well to details and forethought.
Results are in - check them out here! (http://existest.org/ee_v3/?p=5257)
So any conclusions based on this?
People like and buy different things?
Like:
people prefer handmade covers (51 votes as opposed of 39 for professional)
but they buy professional as opposed to handmade (63 vs 28)
So conclusion could be: there is shortage of style of packaging people would appreciate. They only buy what is made and have no alternative?
Statistical errors/inaccuracy based on questions?
Like:
32 prefer vinyl
23 + 20 = 43 prefer tape
12 = cd
But is it accurate to have two choices of tape instead of one? Not sure.
when asked in combination
17+14 prefer tapes = 31 (handmade/pro packaging)
15+16 prefer vinyl = 31 (handmade/pro packaging)
9+4+1 = 14 prefer cd (all different variations)
suddenly tapes and vinyl are just as demanded? There is no favor towards tape.
But then if looking what combinations people prefer... still making some conclusion would clarify:
tape = 42
vinyl = 31
cd = 14
cdr = 3
(which is very accurately same as previous preferation of format alone)
If looking what you purchase the most:
45 goes for tape
23 vinyl
20 cd
Maybe relevant question would be do you make choice by economic factors or due personal preference? It would appear like economic preference?
Which, I, of course can associate myself into. Of course I would like to put out everything on LP, yet reality often hits in. Be it length of material, sonic qualities of material, economic reality, logistics, etc etc.
Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on June 15, 2012, 12:30:11 PM
Sometimes I embroil myself in embarrassing situation because I begin with an offer to issue something but after listening arrived music I am not satisfy and I resign from this release.
This is very good and should be practiced more often. When one records it is nigh impossible to have an "objective" view of quality. Everytime I have recordedsomething to be released I have been initially happy about results and then intensily unhappy with it. Luckily I have very few official releases, quite a few "semiofficial" tapes and cd-r:s handed out mostly to friends and allies in Sweden as compared to boxes filled with recording sesions, unused materials and tapes, hours and hours . For some of those I have now complete feelings of disgust, but which all seemed perfectly fine at the time of recording. The noisemarket is flooded and I think that harsh yet constructive criticism is the best way to handle it. I need it and many others certainly do so too.
Now, I didn't make the deadline, but from the results there seems to be a quite predictable hierarchy. The "obsolete" concrete formats of tape and vinyl are the most popular. These are mine as well. Especially tapes. Perhaps tape wins on feeling more exclusive than cd now that tape of different lengths than c-60 or c-90 are impossible or hard to find (at least in sweden). I.e. the hassle and physicality of those two formats make them more valuable to customers as opposed to the boring and easily accessible cd?
My assumption is that instead of format, most people simply look for good deal for good music.
I don't think digipak CD sold at 20$ is "great deal". But same can be said for 20$ tape in lazy "handmade" cover. These can be acceptable when artists & release is ones liking.
Tape maybe be for someone more special or personal. This argument leads to more interesting discussion: Why. Even if you like home dubbed tape as best format, is it because it's format in plain and simple concept, or perhaps economic reality connected to it: cheaper price, cheaper shipping, etc.
And if you choose CD, do you value those same things compactness (as opposed to LP's), but also digital carriers accuracy in storaging data, and as opposed to cheap bulk tape, possibly remain 100% the same for rest of your life no matter how much you listen?
I think format alone is hardly a deciding factor to vast majority. If you got 15usd tape from who cares HNW newbie as opposed to 5usd CD of Troniks. I'm quite sure latter would lure more? If you have same album released by lets say Galakt Horro and CD is 15 and LP 17.. Vinyl appears to sell much much quicker. But what if it's something like Genocide Organ CD being 15 and vinyl version 27. I'm guessing the lure of vinyl over cd suddenly is re-thought by many?
I find it difficult to relate to those who only buy one format. I've seen many times over on the noise boards that someone will only buy vinyl. I do understand that there is so much quantity music to be heard that one does need to employ some strategy to edit their buying. Only buying vinyl is one way to edit purchasing habits. And maybe there is more quality music on vinyl than any one person could hope to absorb and appreciate; so again, such purchase editing could work. Nevertheless, I cannot imagine not hearing the great number of artists who don't release any vinyl or only have one or two releases on vinyl. I cannot understand not hearing JGrzinich - Intimations or Seth Nehil - Uva just because it wasn't on vinyl. Such a maxim wouldn't serve my interest in music well, and I'm in it for the music.
perhaps there can be element of slight self betrayal type of thing. Like saying I prefer LP's and I buy LP's, but in the end, due various circumstances, end up actually listening files. But since it's not consciously buying or obtaining, it hardly registers to your brain that vast majority of music is just files.
Whole LP with download card thing. You buy LP, but more often listen the file due circumstances.
I do think a lot of people don't miss the "clumsy" big stereo equipment. Their choice to focus on formats listenable with compact small system may be dominating factor? Maybe it is not so visible thing in noise, but among other music styles I know plenty of people who don't really bother with technical & space issues related to turntables and such. They rather just push the play button.
I'm now listening to CD, of material what suits best the CD format. This wouldn't work too well on tape or LP.
i like 7"s (kbd punk, 80's hardcore, wave, noise, pe, exp, ambient)