She became one of the rising star of the indie/pitchfork-ish scene.
She is a member of Special Interests forum and shown her interests in PE quite often in interviews.
I even saw one interview that she wants to do a collaboration with Mikko.( I would piss my pants if this really happens)
She's doing a collaboration with El-P(not as much as Grunt but also superb in my book) in a few days and has done one with JG Thirlwell a month back.
The more cleaner recent material isn't my cup of tea but the more older lofi/industrial tracks are great.
What do you think about her?
She's prime material for Late Night With Carson Daly. Same with Dominick Fernow. I wish them luck with their careers. May they both go far in making "noise" safe for children.
Or be gateway to lure children into temptations of sleazy noise?
Especially Fernows works is all but "safe". It still makes even grown men cry. All the time.
I'm quite sure I never heard of Zola Jesus, but this might be because I hardly follow what is "indie music" or know what "pitchfork" is exactly and what they do. I recall I went there to read decent Prurient interview once, and someone there asked me porn making related questions? Possibly, but very vague recollections.
Went to see some youtube videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huve8SMyzyI&feature=related
Drummer with CROSSED OUT t-shirts... He plays also in Jex Toth right? I meet them while playing with JT few months ago. Appeared very nice people and good in what they were doing. As a result of gig I did purchase all what JT has done.
I have high doubts that collaborating with me on any level would do anything else than damage for her career, hah.. But if there is gigs to Finland planned - I hope they'll request Grunt to warm up the event -what will ruin it for most..
i ordered her first record, the spoils, yesterday because i wanted to check out some of her music.. from what i heard the newer material sounds too clean for me.
Personally I think they are improving with any work...
Her latest stuff is really intense.
Judging from the video Mikko linked it's not my cup of tea and i don't see the connection with noise. Sounds like music for some american teenager tv series? If the girl likes noise/p.e. i can't complain though + yes it would be great to see the audience reaction if Grunt opened for them.
I think a friend of mine opened for one of their gigs in Italy some months ago, but she plays "soft" synth music so i guess nothing funny happened.
Quote from: jangbi08 on July 03, 2012, 05:46:39 AMShe became one of the rising star of the indie/pitchfork-ish scene.
That should have been enough to warn me off, along with the name of the group. But like the open-minded dick I am, I had to have a look at some of those videos.
Hip-hop, hardcore, indie - we're going to have to change the name of this forum to Common Interests.
I'm guessing her noisier work would be more noisier? Have someone heard prurient collaboration tape - not as ZJ, but under her own name?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UYTS-ppoQM&feature=related
Quote from: theotherjohn on July 03, 2012, 09:32:56 PM
...regurgitating 30-second sound bites of knowledge for a camera or an audience will surely bring out the "hipster" in anyone, regardless of whether they deserve the label or not. Aah, the joys of fame.
Doesn't take much to move people. Amoeba probably had to buy duplicates of everything after this video was released, despite the wiki-level information presented. Just another cog in the indie machine.
There you go, Mikko - get her to do "The Essentials".
What's with the name? Is that her real name? If so my condolences. Was it chosen? Why? Sounds awful.
Apparently her name is Nika Roza Danilova. Her + Die Antword = annoying "hip". I think people from the mainstream listening to underground music is just fine, but I hate these groups that the underground cultures dub "ok to listen to" from the mainstream. I remember when the first Justin Timberlake album came out in like 2001 or 2002 all of the Hardcore and Metal guys were like "oh it's my guilty pleasure hahahahahahaah *gasp*... hahahahahahaah!" Which seems to be happening again with Lady Gaga (see NWN! Forums).
QuoteWent to see some youtube videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huve8SMyzyI&feature=related
Drummer with CROSSED OUT t-shirts... He plays also in Jex Toth right? I meet them while playing with JT few months ago. Appeared very nice people and good in what they were doing. As a result of gig I did purchase all what JT has done.
...'Dat nose.
Quote from: RyanWreck on July 04, 2012, 04:19:18 AM
...'Dat nose.
No matter what exaggerated and hideous style she dons, that fucking schnauzer, man...do people actually think this chick is attractive?
I do, as it happens, but I have little interest in what of her actual music I've gleaned from YouTube and am still trying to work why this thread even exists. She likes Noise and PE? Good on her, but so what? What has she produced that could be classified as genuinely "Power Electronics, Industrial, Noise, Experimental, Avant Garde, Ambient"? Or have the boundaries changed and left me living in the past?
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on July 04, 2012, 05:30:22 AM
What has she produced that could be classified as genuinely "Power Electronics, Industrial, Noise, Experimental, Avant Garde, Ambient"?
Actually she has a split with Burial Hex and that album is experimental/ambient.
Listening now - oh dear...they should stick to indie...
Quote from: tisbor on July 03, 2012, 01:00:48 PMyes it would be great to see the audience reaction if Grunt opened for them.
Hahaha agreed. I like Zola Jesus but it's very separate from noise and PE.
I think ZJ is great. I love the somewhat Siouxsie-vocals, the over the top reverb, simplistic beats etc. On the other hand I am a complete ecclectic and really don't give a fuck about "genre puritanism". I would enjoy Army of Lovers as well as Grunt or Survival Unit if I wanted a sonic vision of social degeneration, depending on my mood. Great pop, like the later stuff more than the early lo-fi.
The influence of (Post-)Industrial culture is widespread outside this "ghetto", and especially now when the internet make eveything accessible. Do I care the slightest if someone went through the hard way of exploring it, chasing after obcure recordings via tapetrading or if they just found it all on discogs? No. Don't put your fucking releases on discogs if you do. The "underground" is not dependent on hipsters (whoever they are, it seem to be just a general slur against perceived outsiders, but I'm sure they exist). Who gives a fuck if someone outside the scene mentions some obscure project, or if Vice-readers believe black metal equals Gorgoroth?
I've been around various "scenes" for half my life and I really can't begin to express my distaste for the juvenile notion of "worthy" people or whatever. PE or extreme industrial i not for everyone, it never will be. But I'm not going to be pretending that I think only drugaddicts, political nuts, pervs and general freaks are "worthy" of it. I think they are the ones who will endure it in the end. The edge of PE is that its subject matter, infrastructure, actual participants are hardly going to attract mainstream attention but for the briefest moment. And then again a lot of people in the "scene" would hardly pass for particularly extreme now that "sick movies", Kenneth Anger, John Duncan, serial killers and fetish porn has hit the mainstream.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 03, 2012, 09:39:57 AM
Or be gateway to lure children into temptations of sleazy noise?
This is a great point. I think most people are lured into it one way or another. I'm working on luring good looking girls into it. I want groupies...
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 03, 2012, 09:39:57 AM
ut if there is gigs to Finland planned - I hope they'll request Grunt to warm up the event -
Yes! Playing unto an unsuspecting audience is also fantastic. Especially when they try to like it but jut can't bear the volume or intensity. Much more rewarding than playing for the same jaded noiseguys again and again. It should of course not be the core of one's activities, but nice to do ever so often. You jut can't get the "noise elite" to freak out over a backdrop video for instance...
Quote from: eyestrain on July 04, 2012, 04:46:09 AM
No matter what exaggerated and hideous style she dons, that fucking schnauzer, man...do people actually think this chick is attractive?
Yes. Ecclectic taste in women as well as music.
Now, perhaps I went off topic earlier, but I think one point to be made is that I, like many others, found industrial via SPK and TG, and I do think the chillout disco of "20 jazz funk greats" are great, just like some of the oddball shit of Monte Cazzazza. If that kind of music would be presented today I'm sure none of us would think "hey industrial music!" and thus, context is all that matters to make sense. The Bermuda Drain stuff by Prurient would hardly be discussed from industrial/noise point of view, neither in positive or negative manner, without the project's history, it would be much ignored all together. "Post/Industrial" is a wide term, and early pioneers encompass a lot of different sound experiments, many which hardly sound far out today
(hell even bands like Ramleh or Club Moral sounds quite easy listening in their best moments, like the Statement comp). In the case of Zola Jesus perhaps it does have some relevance to know her influences, or perhaps it don't, but the context and continuity of industrial, noise and power electronics are important, even more important than sound itself in my eyes. If from no other perspective than to show the huge impact of these genres on culture in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zola_Jesus
Her dad is a hunter but thinks just leaving severed deer heads lying around that another animal will just clean the skull for him?
Here's another one for the Me Generation topic -
QuoteI was just reading this guy named Arthur Schopenhauer
Like, dude, ever heard of him? Maybe he should change his name to Arthur Jesus, he'd get more fans.
Anyway, musically this band is some kind of indie pop/rock what have you (apart, it would seem, from a rather dreadful side of a split album), and that's okay, really, but I don't think there's a need for every genre to coalesce into a big sloppy group-hug. I also don't think having eclectic taste in music (which I think most people here have, but no big deal if some don't) is an excuse to bring up every other band/artist you like here and try to equate it to the general topic via a few tenuous threads. Nothing wrong with defined boundaries. Or making fun of hipsters.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on July 05, 2012, 02:14:34 AM
I also don't think having eclectic taste in music (which I think most people here have, but no big deal if some don't) is an excuse to bring up every other band/artist you like here and try to equate it to the general topic via a few tenuous threads. Nothing wrong with defined boundaries. Or making fun of hipsters.
Well sure, fair enough. I have no interest in promoting grouphugging, nor celebrating hipsterdom. A scene should of course be centred around participants, not "tourists". And I am only interested in serious discussion not trolling or battling who gets it better. Defined borders are also excellent, as long as the artists perform well within them.
But I have an even lesser interest in the dimwitted aspects of scene mentality (not intended at anyone specific here, only in general), many people in every kind of subculture act out some sort of tedious puritanism, to this I have grown increasingly hostile in later years. As if you would have to have [insert cheesy pop music] as an "guilty pleasure" just because you're affiliated to a extreme music scene.
But I don't think I mentioned any artist without the purpose of discussing context, which I think is the valid reason to go into ZJ at this forum at all.
This thread is total comedy.
Nika is a total fanatic and a true believer. She's been buying records from Troniks since she was a teenager and I'm sure everyone here that has a label or distro would immediately recognize her husband's name as a frequent buyer.
While ZJ may not sound like most of the artists discussed on this forum, she does come from a similar audio background, shares many of the same passions, and incorporates common elements. Plus her output is generally dark, oppressive and thematically heavy. That said, she wouldn't (and doesn't) describe her project as industrial / noise / power electronics / experimental etc.
She is a huge supporter of the "noise scene" - she buys records & tapes constantly, has added noise bands to her live shows, and often discusses her favorites in interviews and elsewhere. In the past she has participated on the Noise Fanatics & Special Interests boards (as both Zola Jesus and under other accounts) but has had to scale back due to noise board jokers haranguing her via email & pm to do collaborations, splits, etc. That last thing would be total comedy if it weren't so sad.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 03, 2012, 09:39:57 AM
I hope they'll request Grunt to warm up the event -what will ruin it for most..
I'll definitely let her know you're interested and imagine it wouldn't be difficult to get Grunt an opening spot on a Finnish gig. She has a Freak Animal collection that rivals my own. And I've known you for over half of her lifetime!
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 03, 2012, 04:03:10 PM
Have someone heard prurient collaboration tape - not as ZJ, but under her own name?
I don't think she's recorded with Prurient but know that she's done some work on other possible under-the-radar releases with noise dudes.
Quote from: theotherjohn on July 03, 2012, 09:32:56 PM
Pretty tacky that she's asked to give opinions on records before she's even bought or listened to them though - regurgitating 30-second sound bites of knowledge for a camera or an audience will surely bring out the "hipster" in anyone, regardless of whether they deserve the label or not. Aah, the joys of fame.
Oh give me a break. That Amoeba video is a 5 minute consolidation of an hour plus interview. She selected titles that she already owned and wanted to talk about based on what Amoeba happened to have in stock that day. Plus The Cherry Point! Be sure to also check out the Henry Rollins interview where he recommends "anything/everything" on Chondritic Sound. (If you didn't know, I've worked at Amoeba for nearly 15 years!)
Quote from: bitewerksMTB on July 05, 2012, 01:18:47 AM
Her dad is a hunter but thinks just leaving severed deer heads lying around that another animal will just clean the skull for him?
Keith, don't always believe the internet.
Anyway, I'm hanging out with her tonight so will let her know that everyone here is thinking about her.
Quote from: troniks on July 07, 2012, 08:20:29 AM
I don't think she's recorded with Prurient but know that she's done some work on other possible under-the-radar releases with noise dudes.
uh... I could swear I remember this one tape exists.. but with some intensive googling.. no Nika Roza Danilova, but Nico Vascellari/Prurient tour tape.. hah!
Anyone who gets "popular", especially among wrong people, will end up getting shit. Be it internet or "real life". One would guess it is the simple law of how things go. To get topics that turn into unknown people making remarks, suddenly puts you in status of Prurient or Wolf Eyes?
Now, this is what I find interesting. Whether the person behind ZJ has an industrial/noise collection of certain magnitude, does it matter? For me it does add a lot, since I don't think the music of ZJ sounds like every other ordinary female vocal popmusic out there, and I do think there is some importance to influences even when the end result is different, I think it is quite clear that her influences differ from the regular "girl singers". Does gaining popularity automatically make you a hipster? Does it even matter if hipsters stumble into buying noise records due to namedropping artists?
(discussed this the other day, is it better for scene infrastructure if some innocent bystanders actually buy records? For all its anticommercial rhetorics this scene is extremely keen on releasing products. Products need consumers. It would be somewhat foolish to think the consumers should be "worthy", sort of teenage norwegian black metal style. Does that mean that all listeners become part of the scene? Of course not. But its hardly any danger of the "alternative mainstream" picking up on trve kvlt, a record named "multicultural degeneration" ain't going to be acceptable for example, which means they will only pick what IS or canonical enough to be not dangerous despite subject matter (Whitehouse perhaps?). I think one should take a more Jüngeresque approach, let them be interested while we ignore them, mainstream interference will only be a problem if we start to adopt our output to fit THEIR demands)
I have no problem seeing a person with a real and intense interest in PE/industrial playing music that suddenly becomes popular with "hipsters". The only things that matter should be if there is a real interest and passion for the culture, not what the dayjob is.
I just came home from a dreadful nightshift, if someone would be prone to give me money and pay me to tour places instead I would certainly find that more appealing than this.
Now, I do not claim that ZJ is a part of this specific little island of extreme music, not by any means. Not any longer anyway. It has transcended (or descended depending on one's point of view) into a much less specified area. That was the point of me mentioning 20 jazz funk greats earlier. That doesn't sound like "industrial" either, but I wouldn't say that it's an irrelevant record in an industrial context. I DO find both fantastic music though, I listen to stridulum all the time, one of my favourite records ever. I hope that do not make me a hipster now...
(Sorry. I'm rambling. Haven't slept for a long time, brain completely overheated. It is almost worse than writing drunk...)
Also, it would be quite revisionist and ignorant to claim that the project lacks any historical connections to industrial/experimental, would it not? Leave it to everyone's taste to judge if it sounds good or bad, but fair should be fair and ZJ has been releasing stuff on "relevant" labels, splitting with "relevant" bands, been distributed by "relevant" distros etc.
With an already interesting name like Nika Roza Danilova it's a shame she opted for Zola Jesus. Zola Jesus is fucking awful. The music sounds alright to me. But... why are we discussing her here? Apart from her owning and being into a lot of music of the genre I hear no relation at all. I love Depeche Mode and Indochine and could spend all day talking about them. But not here.
Quote from: troniks on July 07, 2012, 08:20:29 AM
This thread is total comedy.
Nika is a total fanatic and a true believer. She's been buying records from Troniks since she was a teenager and I'm sure everyone here that has a label or distro would immediately recognize her husband's name as a frequent buyer.
While ZJ may not sound like most of the artists discussed on this forum, she does come from a similar audio background, shares many of the same passions, and incorporates common elements. Plus her output is generally dark, oppressive and thematically heavy. That said, she wouldn't (and doesn't) describe her project as industrial / noise / power electronics / experimental etc.
She is a huge supporter of the "noise scene" - she buys records & tapes constantly, has added noise bands to her live shows, and often discusses her favorites in interviews and elsewhere. In the past she has participated on the Noise Fanatics & Special Interests boards (as both Zola Jesus and under other accounts) but has had to scale back due to noise board jokers haranguing her via email & pm to do collaborations, splits, etc. That last thing would be total comedy if it weren't so sad.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 03, 2012, 09:39:57 AM
I hope they'll request Grunt to warm up the event -what will ruin it for most..
I'll definitely let her know you're interested and imagine it wouldn't be difficult to get Grunt an opening spot on a Finnish gig. She has a Freak Animal collection that rivals my own. And I've known you for over half of her lifetime!
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 03, 2012, 04:03:10 PM
Have someone heard prurient collaboration tape - not as ZJ, but under her own name?
I don't think she's recorded with Prurient but know that she's done some work on other possible under-the-radar releases with noise dudes.
Quote from: theotherjohn on July 03, 2012, 09:32:56 PM
Pretty tacky that she's asked to give opinions on records before she's even bought or listened to them though - regurgitating 30-second sound bites of knowledge for a camera or an audience will surely bring out the "hipster" in anyone, regardless of whether they deserve the label or not. Aah, the joys of fame.
Oh give me a break. That Amoeba video is a 5 minute consolidation of an hour plus interview. She selected titles that she already owned and wanted to talk about based on what Amoeba happened to have in stock that day. Plus The Cherry Point! Be sure to also check out the Henry Rollins interview where he recommends "anything/everything" on Chondritic Sound. (If you didn't know, I've worked at Amoeba for nearly 15 years!)
Quote from: bitewerksMTB on July 05, 2012, 01:18:47 AM
Her dad is a hunter but thinks just leaving severed deer heads lying around that another animal will just clean the skull for him?
Keith, don't always believe the internet.
Anyway, I'm hanging out with her tonight so will let her know that everyone here is thinking about her.
Thank you Hollywood.
Just when I thought this thread was going to die a natural death it turned into a brain-eating zombie.
Now, I suppose you're not forced to read it. I think reactions on both "sides" has warranted discussion. I admit I was quite brainfried when I wrote my last post. But there is some substance to it. Since people like to fling insults and brainless statements about people's involvement. Which would be fine if it was done with some intelligent reasoning and not just some scenester need to elevate oneself as righteous "true believers". Had enough of that in punk. I think it got not so much to do with the topic, but I think it is a relatively reasonable thing to discuss, as it concerns the nature of subculture moere than any specific people involved. But ok. Let's drop this.
If it's on the internet, it's true. Everything is checked for accuracy.
Maybe it's the beer but i don't really get what it's being discussed here.
This Zola Jesus girl likes "our" music? Good for her!
Again i think this is mainly, as usual, an American "problem" - noise creeping into more widely acknowledged fields: Henry Rollins buying noise Cdrs, Andrew WK, this Zola Jesus affair (?), maybe only the arty connections of the Vascellari/Prurient collaboration are a concession of this phenomena to the Old Continent.
My conclusion is: who cares?
That being said, i did took my time to answer to this thread.
Maybe it's just the beer.
I thought she sounded reasonably sincere in the record video. I thought Zola Jesus looked familiar but I thought it was the name of a stoner/doom band. The internet says Adam Higgins is her husband but "don't always believe the internet"... his name looks familiar too but I have no idea why.
Quote from: kosis on July 03, 2012, 07:23:48 AM
She's prime material for Late Night With Carson Daly. Same with Dominick Fernow. I wish them luck with their careers. May they both go far in making "noise" safe for children.
fucking lol. I'm sure she'll make Mikko water down his misogynistic noise so that fake-prescription glasses crowd doesn't get offended.
i have everything of her.
i really love her music.
It's a member of this forum?
REALLY? O_o
I think this kind of discussion results from a very specific dialectic that exists within the noise scene. On the one side, you see people who believe that noise (or PE, or industrial, or whatever) is distinctly outside of the realm of "music" (or entertainment, or whatever); they believe they are fundamentally separate, incompatible at a root level. On the other hand, there are people who either don't care about the distinction or find it to depend upon unreliable or unacceptably conceptual criteria. For the latter, the divide between art and entertainment might be problematic, maybe even romantic. Or, they might not give a shit at all, and have a very personal, subjective aesthetic relationship with the sounds and works they consume. I used to be in the very first camp, but my no longer being there doesn't mean that I'm in the second. I think both are troubling. The first is a highly conservative position and rests on largely idiotic and authoritarian assumptions. It breeds some really stultifying, programmatic expectations for art. While those who forged the rules that others follow may indeed be some of the greatest artists we all love, the following of these rules has produced much of the work most of us hate. The latter camp is equally problematic. In the case where distinctions seen as unreliable turn toward a collapsing of all distinctions, an inability to comprehend or articulate complexity resorts to a kind of reductionism that is as mindless as the first camp. The unconscious egoism of those who pursue their own tastes without reflection may be the most admirable of these tendencies, but it fosters a kind of mindless audience that no one should produce works for -- it is an audience unworthy of something to observe.
On a separate but related issue, there are two kinds of rule-breaking that we see (not exclusively). The first kind is very common, and has been for a couple decades now. It's been routinely commented upon: the mash-up/remix/synthetic culture so prominent in contemporary culture. This rule-breaking is actually an intensive form of rule following because it masters the most attractive (to viewers or to the producer) qualities of a form, follows its rules with absolute attention and faithfulness, but combines it with that of other genres, with the same degree of fastidious obedience to the rules. The most clever of these artists create a unique pastiche of highly stylized creations, yet absolutely faithful to the original commandments of the prior forms. Ever see the South Park episode where they are making fun of Family Guy -- the one where dolphins (they were dolphins, right?) select seemingly random "idea balls" to be cobbled together into a mess, the irony of which is meant to give it is humorous quality? A similar irony is at work in these melanges. If the irony is done right, it might appear clever. But all one needs is irony these days -- with or without any intellectual or aesthetic integrity -- to earn an audience. The other kind of rule-breaking is decidedly more nihilistic, and seeks to reject all rules, but it's an act of pure negation. If you have a Hegelian conception of the universe, this negation is fully dependent upon what is: it must be antithetical to the existing forms. But if you're not, if you think more trialectically (or chaotically), then there are paths nondependent upon what exists. This is where the magic happens, though rarely ever does it. These people end up being the rule-makers. In industrial, it was Throbbing Gristle, SPK, etc. In black metal, it was Darkthrone and Mayhem.
I don't know what to think about Zola Jesus. I have a hard time not making certain associations with things I really despise, and to look at her work in its own right. For instance, there's something very Los Angeles about her work. And I fucking hate Los Angeles. Her early work seemed really amateurish, and I didn't like the crossover that was happening with what I saw as post-crash electro-clash with the noise scene. This post-crash electro-clash is a lot more heroin and a lot less coke, in a world that is much more on its way down than on its way up. But it still seemed like electro-clash to me, and that genre's place is at a shitty club when you're drunk and hunting for ass and little else. 'Why anyone would want to take that and make it more artful and intelligent?' seemed lost on me. This has been done interestingly in the past, but the art itself wasn't intended to be something of value in its own right. Instead it was commentary, and the interplay between the work and the audience was what mattered; consider here the Situationists or even The Sex Pistols.
This initial impression I had of Zola Jesus made it difficult for me to look any further and I rejected the work almost immediately. But that's also a really ... idiotic way to look at art. And besides, she's using a lot of symbols I have a lot of affinity for, is working with some interesting themes. Recently, though, her work has clearly improved and she's obviously matured. After hearing and reading some interviews with her, I decided to give her work more attention. She's obviously more intelligent than most of the idiots who will reject her because she's not following the rules they mindlessly demand allegiance to. I'm not really ready to give much of a critical appraisal of her work, because I'm just now able to really hear it for what it is.
For those who do like this kind of dark, experimental but much more musical material, I really recommend checking out Cages. I really enjoy their work a lot. The album on Cold Spring is very good, but the live cassettes show a much more experimental side of the band.
Ben, what you seem to have done is compartmentalise people who either dig or don't dig ZJ being mentioned here into two, too neat categories. The context, though, is just this forum. Outside of this forum people are more complex with their preferences, as has already been made clear. It doesn't mean people necessarily think ZJ is worthless on it's own (or that there's anything wrong with thinking it's worthless), just that it doesn't have to be accepted here on the say-so of others due to the tenuous links you already mentioned. As I wrote before, there is nothing wrong with having boundaries. Those boundaries are pretty easily defined but don't just rest "on largely idiotic and authoritarian assumptions", they rest on what is understood more emotionally and less rationally. It's okay to accept things based on what you feel without having to justify it intellectually.
In your case, I honestly think you're over-intellectualising it and that's okay too - you have your reasons. But it's not always necessary. You don't have to give "a critical appraisal of her work", you can just feel whether you dig it or not. What happens if you feel you genuinely don't give a shit but you think you have to based on symbols and ideas you have affinity for? You already mentioned an alternative - I don't know who Cages are but I'm glad you're bringing them up. Perhaps ZJ just isn't worth the time invested?
This forum has already brought up for discussion a lot of artists who don't fit into the definitions given in the title piece above - there's a thread on fucking hip-hop for fuck's sake. Hardly surprising that there's dissent. On the other hand, a lot more energy could be spent on the very, very huge amount of artists and projects that do fit in. That this has to be stated is a little surprising to me.
Sasha Grey
Meaning you keep jerking off while watching her?
I just bought while ago all Sasha Grey vinyls from 2nd layer shop. Friend said it ain't very good, but could you refuse the gut feeling?
There is this one topic "noise elements in regular music" or whatever it was called. I don't utterly want to turn down dealing "normal music" in SI forum, but it could be also possible to deal with material like this in some topic such as that. One could assume that despite something has semi-mainstream potential, it may be still relatively experimental. If some noise folks would have recommended me to check out guys like Scott Walker or Tom Waits and such, I would have probably sooner found out the weird and experimental side of theirs. I doubt we'd need to talk about what pop-chart friendly material some artist has done - but what could be interesting from perspective of experimental tastes.
However, it does slightly surprise me how often music topics are the popular ones, while noise might not always be. It kind of tempts me to start survey of what kind of % of listening is "noise or related" and what % is "music" (whatever the type). It is very hard for me to estimate other people's listening habits and most certainly I do not want to give impression there would be competition of who is the "most true" noisehead. Still, since early 90's, vast majority of my listening time is "noise and related". I do listen other sound, even popular music, yet noise is by far the stuff I have the most and listen the most. Nevertheless, I wouldn't look down on someone with 95% of pop music and 5% of noise type of consuming habits either. But it is easy to understand when such listeners find the noisy angle in music and get interested - be it noisy punk, noisy metal, noisy indie, noisy hiphop whatever..
I think maybe a just a simple survey thread for % of noise listening would be interesting.
Zola Jesus & Sasha Grey collaboration...
Nevermind, SG isn't doing porn anymore so no other reason to be interested in her.
It was happen such vociferous about Zola Jesus that I decided to listen her music because I didn't know her previous. I listened one track "Vessel" and firstly it reminded me 4AD music from 80s. Nice music for emo students and, as muzak, to talk with friends in pubs drinking beer.
I think she's great...sounds like the Mullholland Drive or Inland Empire soundtrack with ethereal female vocals ontop.
I also think that nobody seems that interested in discussing noise/pe related shit here anymore, so, if not for discussing subjects like these I think nothing/not much would be said at all.
Quote from: youngnosh on July 14, 2012, 12:15:21 AMI also think that nobody seems that interested in discussing noise/pe related shit here anymore, so, if not for discussing subjects like these I think nothing/not much would be said at all.
The brain-eating zombie strikes again.
So, long story short: Zola Jesus apparently enjoys industrial/noise, but doesn't perform it herself. How exactly is this fact worthy of a four-page thread? If the noise fan in question were, say, some dude with a successful minimal-synth project, would anyone give a shit?
Quote from: Mme Deficit on July 14, 2012, 03:00:43 AM
So, long story short: Zola Jesus apparently enjoys industrial/noise, but doesn't perform it herself. How exactly is this fact worthy of a four-page thread? If the noise fan in question were, say, some dude with a successful minimal-synth project, would anyone give a shit?
Well, anything Prurient/Hospital Records related?
I thought the most interesting thing was Phil's comment that ZJ was active on the forums but she kept getting so many requests to do collabs, she had to split. I'd love to know who was bugging her.
Quote from: bitewerksMTB on July 14, 2012, 05:24:03 AM
I thought the most interesting thing was Phil's comment that ZJ was active on the forums but she kept getting so many requests to do collabs, she had to split. I'd love to know who was bugging her.
luckily I was not active at the time. it would have been utterly embarrassing, me groveling like a dog for the opportunity to bask in her fame and glory...
Quote from: Mme Deficit on July 14, 2012, 03:00:43 AM
So, long story short: Zola Jesus apparently enjoys industrial/noise, but doesn't perform it herself. How exactly is this fact worthy of a four-page thread? If the noise fan in question were, say, some dude with a successful minimal-synth project, would anyone give a shit?
Now. i wasn't going to write anymore since I've said all I've got to say about why I think it is not irrelevant. But this thread has become a real favorite and if people seem willing to keep it alive, I shouldn't be one to stand behind my word. And one should remember that comments like these also help keep the "unworthy" thread alive.
I find myself forced to repeat myself: the limitations of the [post]industrial genre
should NOT be so narrow as to exclude discussion on things which could easily be traced to it. Noise it is not, PE it is not, yet "industrial" must rather be subjected to some other analysis in regards to its character. Just as with punk it is not as simple to pin down as a musical style, while its subgenres are. I do think that is a really interesting subject, with or without ZJ being a part of it.
And some of the ZJ material does actually bring late COIL to mind now that I think about it, definitely not as groundbreaking, historically important or multilayered as COIL, but there is something with the etheric feel to the music, the beautiful voice etc which makes me think there are aural similarities. Which MIGHT be a complete coincidence, but probably not - since influences of the artist have already been pinned down.
(I think it is interesting to examine how industrial culture has influenced mainstream culture, even though a "movement" (in lack of a better word, I'm sick of using "scene") wishes to stay underground and far away from broad daylight it should not shirk from its own history and relative importance. That attitude, of only acknowledging what is considered "correct" at the moment is just like liberal bullshit = dishonest or stupid)
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on July 11, 2012, 03:02:55 AM
This forum has already brought up for discussion a lot of artists who don't fit into the definitions given in the title piece above - there's a thread on fucking hip-hop for fuck's sake... a lot more energy could be spent on the very, very huge amount of artists and projects that do fit in. That this has to be stated is a little surprising to me.
My response to this could overlap with the "On not being an artist" thread (and a few others besides). I think people involved in the soundproduction racket are more hesitant to talk at length about soundwork whose characteristics might overlap with their own work - lest they appear too sales-y. A big no no, that. The rules of decorum call for a certain degree of affected restraint. (Affected is the operative word.) At the same time, it's generally given – and expected - that anything one says in a public forum is self-serving and therefore part of the broader sales pitch (re- "My shit is cool", for example, because "I'm cool.")
If you'll bear with the questionable sense of decorum -
Taking myself as an example. A while back, on another forum, I started a thread that attempted to characterize a potential trend in the future possibilities of one particular area of sound. One commentator came out with, "Well, of course you'd say that because your work sounds like that." It doesn't ("sound like that") but I wouldn't blame him for assuming as much since I'd often offered words in support of "that" kind of sound. I've met people at events who, having never heard anything I'd done, assumed it sounded a certain way based on certain comments I'd made, or perhaps a certain persona I'd projected.
The point is, we're all expected to be SHAMELESS WHORES. But it's easier to do that when you can talk about something significantly less "controversial" - eg something somewhat removed from your own special area of productive interest.
EDIT Of course, I'm probably just saying that cause I want to appear cool.