Moderators note: this topic is split from Noisefanatics/Troniks board discussion
Noisefanatics board is dying. It's too bad. I feel like noise is drastically falling in popularity now in general.
I am afraid this board goes to the same point.
Quote from: xdementia on September 28, 2012, 10:29:55 PMI feel like noise is drastically falling in popularity now in general.
I'd like to hear more about this. I'm far removed from any of the pulses, but I'm interested to hear from those who are better keyed into what is happening with their labels and performances. An inevitable ebb, but still interesting conversation.
I don't see any sign of it. On the contrary, there are more Noise fans and projects right now than ever. I also think the discussion could use a new thread, but anyway.
You can easily show peak points of Noisefanatics and it connects with major things happening in USA noise scene.
No Fun Festival, Hospital shop, RRRecords & co. with their regional LP box sets. Troniks and Chondritic Sound (owners of the beard) constantly putting out new product. Constant touring by big names of genre. etc etc. This kind of things would gather phenomenas bigger than usual. Cumulating interest and people.
When it's simply bunch of "regular users", posting ads of their stuff, what most often is the usual rehashing, what kind of reaction it should create? I doubt it can be climax after climax and new peak after previous peak. But many bands or labels stay in the level the reached - it simply ain't big deal anymore.
Every music style now in underground has the same situation. At least what I know of. They have died in sense what it was in 90's for example. Back then any shoe-box size distro could take 5 7"s of anything, and sell it to people. Now the 7" needs to be by someone guaranteed hot name or new interesting uprising name, or you can forget about being able to sell it. If at some point it would have been enough to say "noise cd" and move 500-1000 copies, now it is that saying "noise cd" doesn't mean shit. But it doesn't mean people wouldn't be interested.
I'm much more drawn toward conclusion of McIntosh:
There are SO MUCH MORE noise/pe/metal/punk, that the level of oversaturation has been passed years ago AND it really is move to healthy direction that whatever you release, will NOT automatically belong to people's list of purchases.
If dying scene means that labels can't pump (possibly overpriced) releases they think "should" sell and this easy assumption based on artists status (past releases and other labels activities, etc), I'm all for killing the scene!
Now as we speak, there are probably more noise forums than for years. There are most definitely more noise magazines than for years. There has been noise documentaries. Depending on countries, there are perhaps bigger amount of noise gigs in many places than there has been for years. You can think how it's possible ALAP moves... 4000 copies? SI moves 700-800 per issue, Terror moves... I don't know? Several hundreds anyways. Night Science must move 500 copies per issue. Personal Best moved 500 per issue? Fördämning boldly pressed 500 copies as well...
If you announce something on forum, Noisefanatics message gets from several dozens to several hundred hits. Same happens in SI forum. Perhaps just little less. But still way more than basically anyones mailinglists or even paper catalogues reached back in the day!
I often see complaints done by someone, who issued CDR of lesser quality material by some has-been. And they are surprised people don't care. I see the complaint done by someone who saw everybody else "succeed" and when their wagon jumping tactic failed (for reason), suddenly "noise is dead". I see PE folks complaining of hipsters, hipsters complaining about PE, everybody complaining of "HNW". Complaining of unnecessary re-unions, but still in the personal listening never giving fuck of new talent, just sticking on trusted old names. etc etc...
Mirror should be near by. Check that out when you have problems.
Noise is one of the genres where it is so small, you can really make the difference - even globally. In whole canon of genre. You can have band that creates stuff you like, label and distro what distributes stuff you believe is the strongest, best and captures ideas and sounds that inspires you. People do like good stuff. People are craving for next great noise album. So how come someones stuff doesn't sell then? Question could be: How much it should sell? How many people should contact you on monthly basis to ask title? How many praising reviews it should get? How many gig offers should you get? Should you bother to go play if there's expected 20 people. Should you announce scene dead if your latest output is not raved by masses?
I urge to read Special Interests #8 editorial. It talks about this same thing. Noise ain't dead or dying. It's merely being misused or suffocated by corrupted expectations.
If someone wants TALK to happen on forum: start interesting topics. That's all what it takes. It can't be noise daddies wiping peoples asses all the time.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on September 29, 2012, 09:30:21 AMIt's merely being misused or suffocated by corrupted expectations.
People come out of the woodwork and post there if you know where to look. Many moderators and people who joined initially have no presence there now. A lot of people have moved on to websites or blogs or other things. Plus there are really stupid things written there sometimes and now apparently log in problems. I havent looked at that form in the past month and I havent lost any sleep over it. Its certainly no representation of the current state of noise music. People become complacent and lazy, then they do nothing and then complain that the scene on the internet has died.
Quote from: O__ONoise is alive again? Cool!
http://chondriticsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53064
The decline of chondritic forum is evident, but i think it's just that - the death of a forum.
The noise scene is as florid as ever, with lots of stuff coming out every day from the four corners of the planet. It's impossible to track down all of the new material and i'm sure tons of great things get totally overlooked, but it's part of the game.
I did notice a steep downfall in the orders i get for my label in the last couple of years, but i guess it's also due to the high shipping prices and the little money problems everybody has these days.
I move lots of stuff at gigs though, maybe even more than the past. I'm getting more and more offers to play, and i saw a big increase in decently organized noise gigs in Italy in the last few years.
Also, i admit i'm proud of the local scene. Lots of new people, lots of new and old names putting out excellent material.
Not to mention flood of noise vinyl coming from Italy during recent years. Of course quantity isn't necessarily synonymous of quality, but neither opposite.
Lets think 2010-2012 noise vinyl published by Italian labels... 100? Certainly way more than 50! That alone is probably enough factors to reduce orders of some other labels. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have limited funds, therefore must think of priorities...
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on September 29, 2012, 09:30:21 AM
Mirror should be near by. Check that out when you have problems.
Cannot underline this enough
Quote from: tisbor on September 29, 2012, 04:09:45 PM
The decline of chondritic forum is evident, but i think it's just that - the death of a forum.
I had the same impressions. I guess also that noise/industrial circle is better/more active now than 10 or 20 years ago. For example, my label on days will issue 3 x CD box of LE SYNDICAT "30 Years of Excess" (with reissue their first tapes); maybe in October a cassette with a new material of The HATERS; in November I will issue the third volume of Encycklopaedia of Industrial Music; maybe in the end of the year - new material on cassette of CALIGULA031. So, I would be stupid man speaking that noise'industrial scene is dying now. But I am pessimistic about forum activities. I think that more and more people don't need talk about music/art. I know many forums which life was the same. Start was very optimistic - many talks, impressions, but after that were only info about new releases and live shows. I hope this forum will not change its activity.
the forum cultures are dying, not the music scenes
How many more web compilations are needed at this point anyway?
i wouldn't say it's dying, but i've certainly noticed an extreme, drastic decline with my recent label efforts; some of the lowest selling in over five years. virtually no distribution, no interest. it appears to be mostly bias based around the cd format combined with the fact that there are a flood of labels.
from a live, physical perspective: after touring the country earlier this year, and seeing so much unbiased enthusiasm everywhere, i can say with confidence that los angeles is the worst city in the country for true noise. there is a new generation of about ten people that carry the torch -- aside from that, it's mostly shallow, and based around trends. you might find more interest out in rural kansas at this point.
Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on September 29, 2012, 09:07:27 PM
I had the same impressions. I guess also that noise/industrial circle is better/more active now than 10 or 20 years ago. For example, my label on days will issue 3 x CD box of LE SYNDICAT "30 Years of Excess" (with reissue their first tapes); maybe in October a cassette with a new material of The HATERS; in November I will issue the third volume of Encycklopaedia of Industrial Music; maybe in the end of the year - new material on cassette of CALIGULA031. So, I would be stupid man speaking that noise'industrial scene is dying now.
Maybe the situation is that in the '00s, the 'noise/industrial' scene learned more in the noise direction, and now the pendulum is swinging back away from noise towards a revived interest in industrial? Just a thought from one listener who always preferred industrial to noise anyway. :)
Firstly, I think a lot of good points have been made so far in this thread as to prove its title wrong. I think both Freak Animal and Tisbor shed lights on what's going on, and I have to agree with most of the people posting here that our interests are not heading towards the grave, but enveloping new territory.
In Norway I see the situation described as generator of new approaches for artists to develop and present own material, as well as an aspiration to distribute records and promote live aktions in new ways and formats. As much as this is related to the contemporary working conditions, I see it also connected to headstrong ideas and wills emerging- fed up works that are spat out and flood our doors- as well as the usual boring ways of organizing stuff in general. In addition I think also the average listener are more demanding and experienced now, and know what they want. One can maybe boil it down and say it is a change brought on by consumer trends and economics combined with a artistic and political wish for proper self-presentation. Regarding self-presentation I feel Freak Animal states a vital point in his mapping of the now. To influence and propel further one has to take initiative and responsibility (if one has the stamina) of own choices and wishes- and take part in ones surroundings and life- and not be a bystander. In general this is something I miss at the present. Initiating purposeful forum threads can be a vital part in mapping new ground and discussions of concepts and experiences that one feel important. Preferably these should be intertwined with own praxis or thoughts/experiences from the daily (as this in my eyes) is the source of artistic work. I for one appreciate a good film, music, fun links, etc here -but at times I feel the forum posts here are lacking content and rehashing old cliches from the overall noise culture- other times self-promotion is overly weighed. To be honest I cannot say I've contributed much in the direction I am suggesting in this forum, but I will try to excel in the future. I think there is an interesting configuration of peeps doing good stuff floating around here.
A forum is a good way to found a platform- for oneself or within a group. I can understand the experience of sadness or frustration about the possible demise of an online social site. Everyone participating in the forum discussed has invested a lot of time there. But I can't help to think that a fraction of the source to this thread is just as much connected to the age we live in, where online life have become an extension of our social deployment, and thus and extension of ourselves. This observation I think people can recognize themselves in.
Anyway ... Perspectives shift, for some interest fades, new platforms emerge... This is natural progression. I sympathize with the inclination towards the mentioned forum, but feel no sadness seeing it possibly go. I am positive this will generate new sparks and momentum elsewhere.