Special Interest

Let me elaborate:
There was topic started "worst/disappointments of 2013". I don't think this is disappointment really. And not of 2013. But lets say, getting box of LP's with wrong size shirt I didn't need in first place, but most likely added 5-15euro to retail value of box.
Getting LP, cd or tape with not only one, but multiple pins, patches or such.

This question is for merchandise what comes WITH the release. Especially when it's not optional.
This does NOT involve stuff like shirts, patches, pins etc what you buy separately because you want some.

So basically, "forced" material goods that adds very little, if anything to the experience beyond pop-culture collectibles.

A patch or pin is ok, more than that seems wrong to me. I'm buying music not clothes.

If there is an option to buy with or without then fine, if you want a tshirt then fill your boots and pay the extra for it.

If it is a single edition only with a non-optional inclusion which pushes up the price then it is a bit shit.



As a related aside, I seem to remember "Die hard" editions in metal circles coming under a lot of fire for creating a very commercial product out of a non-commercial culture (talking doom, DM and BM specifically) but generally they at least seemed to provide a no-frills equivalent too with representative price - I don't follow new metal releases so closely any more so could be off the mark here.

I have the DOME box set. A fantastic release but included within the set is a Dome matchbox containing black confetti! It ends up getting everywhere and i have to vacume after every play . The cost of the bespoke matchbox production seems a silly conseptual extra that I could of lived without!
http://editionsmego.com/release/DOME12345

Quote from: ironfistofthesun on December 29, 2013, 02:51:12 PM
I have the DOME box set. A fantastic release but included within the set is a Dome matchbox containing black confetti! It ends up getting everywhere and i have to vacume after every play . The cost of the bespoke matchbox production seems a silly conseptual extra that I could of lived without!
http://editionsmego.com/release/DOME12345

Extras that make a mess are the worst kind!

I've been suckered into throwing a few extra notes at an edition of some release simply because it comes with something a bit extra and often I don't go for that stuff now.

But as for...unsolicited freebies? I like that a lot.  For me it remains one of the most amazing things about noise which initially struck me as making the 'genre' so fresh when I was a teenager discovering it.  I would do a trade/purchase and get lots more than I asked for.  To me, this is the benchmark of how to actually conduct your trades and purchases when possible! (though such things aren't practical for people more active than me in issuing/trading music). 

Sometimes you get things you don't care about which wind up in the bin...but it's worth it for the occasional keeper: that serendipitous moment when you buy one thing then get a sticker/badge/whatever of an artist you also really love that was unrelated to your order. I guess it would get annoying if I had loads of shirts I'd never wear coming through...but generally I am massively in favour of this.

Bonus points also for ephemeral junk and bizarre articles or artworks. Easily my favourite thing to find in a package.  Nothing quite like expecting a flimsy CDR and ending up with a war film on VHS you can't/wont ever play and a data disc of occult rituals. YEAH!

I suppose I like it all for the side that feels reflective of a tape trading/mail art community approach I wasn't old enough to have been a part of.

Quote from: martialgodmask on December 29, 2013, 02:47:24 PM
If there is an option to buy with or without then fine, if you want a tshirt then fill your boots and pay the extra for it.

If it is a single edition only with a non-optional inclusion which pushes up the price then it is a bit shit.

Another case that felt little annoying was upcoming Wertham/Grey Wolves/Survical Instinct LP. LP itself could have been just fine, but in situation where one would like to hear complete session, there is a limited bonus tape in set that consist LP, tape, shirt and was it 3 pins? Price tag 45 euro + shipping. Obviously it's customer choice, do you want to pay 20+ euro more for tape with extra tracks and get shirts and other bonus you don't necessarily need.

I'll be quite curious waiting for results of voting. I have never talked with anyone who are in favor of "pop culture goodies" forced sale.

I must clarify that merchandise means "commercial goods" (such as shirts, pins, patches, kitchen magnet, stickers, etc). I don't include handmade packaging, crucial artwork (booklets, prints,...) that are integral parts of packaging. For example, Blood Axis/LJDLP 10" box set with absinth spoon is there on fine level. It is indeed just additional thing in box, but still elemental part of thematic / experience of box. If there was handful of mundane absinth fan memorabilia, I certainly wouldn't need those. So, topic not about special packages, but about mundane pop culture merch.

Ah, and I realize poll options #2 and 3 appear pretty much the same...
Lets consider "I like".. to be more partially favorable for free merch, while "I don't.." like option is skeptical although not totally against. ;)

I dont mind when labels and artist throw free shit in, sometimes you get some pretty interesting records/etc. sometimes you are given shit you already own, which at that point i just give it away to third parties that are unfamiliar with noise/industrial music. I dont mind random shit in the package either, such as trash, download cards, flyers, t-shirt fragments etc, i think it all adds to the uniqueness of the overall experience. if its annoying or messy i just throw it out.

Maybe living in the US i'm unfamiliar with it effecting the overall postage rate? or declaration tax?

i generally steer clear of label packages that are bundles though, i kinda find it to be a real turn off, like Southern Lord for example having six editions with either hoodies, shirts and other crap. dont need any of that, and dont order stuff like that. the price of music has already risen so drastically in the last 15 years due to inflation etc, i have neither the money for that kind of junk or the space to store it.

Also I am not a collector per-say, so i do not need to own multiple editions of the same thing, i think thats just the label gouging their loyal fan base to try to make extra money off completionist and it reflects poorly on the label/artist overall IMHO

No, I do not like bonus merchandise. I think it is wrong kind of "salesman attitude". For me patches and pins are worth nothing, and I am not interested most of t-shirts, so this kind of offer have to be very high-quality & interesting.

Pointless stuff that makes a tape or record difficult to store with the rest is nothing but a nuisance to me. That also extends to various types of special packaging. It's fine if you put on a metal plate to your record cover or put your tape in a mesh cage or something. But, anything that protrudes and make the item impossible to place on a shelf next to other stuff (screws and nuts, barbed wire etc.) is just annoying and means I have to make a special place for the item. I'm running out of special places by now...

I like it, but it must fit... I tend to be disappointed when I get extra editions and additional sound material is just scraps and leftovers

No thank you on pins, patches, posters, record mats, shirts, kazoos, whirly hats, framed signatures, and all the other useless, rock-bleeding business ploys to spend an extra $2 to manufacture so they can charge another $25 on the limited edition.  I don't feel it is much of an issue if that bonus junk edition doesn't also include additional music.  It's an ugly look for a label, but if they want to sell and bundle paraphernalia, I don't judge them too harshly for taking advantage of their customer base.  I've picked up a patch or two because I'm a sucker for patches, but I don't like when they're attached to a music item.  If the music material is going to be released, release it with all of the editions.

I like the way for example NWN deals with it: you want the backpatch, patch, tape, flag, I don't know what, you buy the die-hard edition; you don't need it, you buy the normal edition, that works for me. Mostly I buy the normal edition, but have bought a couple die-hard editions, because I was interested in having a patch of the band.
I don't mind stickers or posters, not that I use them, but in some cases it's nice to have an extra big version of the cover art, and they don't take much extra place in the shelf. Only poster which I thought was really retarded was the one that comes with the Acid Witch - Stoned album, it's just the square cover art stretched to fit a rectangular poster, so that you have an oval moon...
In some cases I'd even wish they made the merch available separately, for example in these cases:
http://www.discogs.com/Ordo-Rosarius-Equilibrio-Four/release/3564288 (http://www.discogs.com/Ordo-Rosarius-Equilibrio-Four/release/3564288)
http://www.discogs.com/Sonne-Hagal-Only-Echoes-Remain/release/3384230 (http://www.discogs.com/Sonne-Hagal-Only-Echoes-Remain/release/3384230)
I'd really like the ORE patch and pin and the Sonne Hagal patch (I'm having a thing for band patches which are more a symbol than just a band logo lately, such as the Satanic Warmaster - Werwolf patch, Clandestine Blaze symbol, Vemod abraxas symbol patch...)...

i don't care much for t-shirts, pins and patches, but i like posters if they have some good artwork. would never pay extra because of a thing like that, though.

Posters, shirts, patches etc related directly to the artist or release I bought are okay. I don't really like random material to come, usually I find it to be something I really don't enjoy and it just exists in my apparment. Worst still are all the paper advertisments that clutter the packages one receives. I got about zero interest in those because I can use internet to check the labels/artists I am interested in and usually the ad's are really old. Even worse are ads for gigs that are gone by.

I am mostly indifferent to the addition of extras to a release. I used to be a sucker for it, but it became so commonplace that I tend to prefer the ordinary editions of releases unless it is a band that I am truly fanatical about, and even then I tend to buy the limited version somewhat begrudgingly. I got burned with a couple of limited version releases this year (both from bands that I typically really respect) that I feel compelled to mention:

1. Skullflower cd reissue set with extras: (http://www.discogs.com/Skullflower-Kino-I-IV/master/574321) I actually shelled out the unbelievably ridiculous additional amount of money it cost to buy the limited edition version because I wanted the extra LP. I bought it on a whim because I was very excited about the reissues, but when I got the limited version set (which, I might add, cost even more to ship to the US from the UK), I was so furious that I have never even listened to the lp (which, I might also add, is single sided and doesnt even have artwork on the sleeve). The flyers were just plain xerox copies of older flyers, none of which were actually interesting to begin with. I was so disappointed with this that I haven't even bought another skullflower release since then. I must say, however, that the actual reissue CDs were nicely done and I was pleased with them. I should not have fallen for the extra LP gimmick though.

2. JFK "La Bas" + bonus disc: preordered this because I wanted the bonus disc of unreleased exclusive tracks that the label offered with it. The music is all superb (as one would expect from DiFranco) but the bonus CD was just a plain with no artwork or anything. (Also I waited for a very long time before I received the CDs that I preordered.) Now that same label has released this same material on vinyl (because true music fans only buy vinyl, right?) and not only does it feature the tracks from the bonus CD, it has another fucking track exclusive to the vinyl.

I am really tired of this type of release. Of course, those were examples in which I actually fell for the gimmick. No one forecd me to buy those special editions, so I only have myself to blame, but I would have been content with both if they weren't poorly executed and obviously just scams to sucker fans of the bands involved, which is such a despicable form of exploitation in the underground music scene. Ultimately though, the quality of the release is what is important. Labels that put the time and effort into making special versions of the releases that are actually deserving of a few extra bucks deserve credit. A patch, sticker, pin, tshirt, or something similar is far less intriguing though because it has been done to death and also because I have never seen merch of that sort to play a major role in the noise scene anyway. Its much more of a metal/punk thing to do. I would rather see artist editions with unique covers or some sort of interesting packaging.

Bonus merchandise be damned. If I want a release, I just want the sounds on it anyway, not a lot of extra froth. What I find more galling is when the "die hard" releases contain extra sounds (bonus tape, vinyl, what-have-you). That material had better just be off-cuts or unmixed sources or what have you, because if it's supposed to be part of the original recordings it should be part of the actual release. Either that, or release that extra material as something separate that can be brought at a basic price. Even if you get the extra recorded material for free if you're one of the first one hundred buyers, or something (I wasn't that impressed with the bonus cdr one got with the "Jazz Hijokaidan" cd, for example). Most times I've gone for the "standard" release rather than the bonus merchandise pack, and can't think of many times when I've been too tempted to go the other way.

I don't like merch cluttering my music shelves. My apartment is already filled with books, records, movies, porn, etc, I don't need or want more useless junk around.

I guess the only time I've paid for "die hard" etc. edition is Pentagram "Be Forewarned" reissue double-12" which came with Pentagram slipmat. That was 7 euro extra to normal edition. Other than that I've obviously had a poster or a patch with record but the price have been normal.

Sometimes I have chosen the cd-edition since vinyl is somehow done for collectors with unreal price tag. Nowadays, unrealistic price tag doesn't even mean you have something unnecessary extra with the records, though, "ordinary", not even well done double vinyl counting 30...35 euro in local record shop.

Quote from: SILVUM on January 02, 2014, 03:21:16 AM
To each their own, for sure, but there's only so much flexipop I need in exhaustive 4XLP+subscriber only 7" edition sets.  None.  I understand that he needs incentive to get subscribers, but just offer things like different color boxes or shirts or white vinyl.. not extra audio/video/text...
Stressed about how I'm gonna get that Muslimgauze million LP + bonus subscriber 10" box...

I cancelled my subscription for 2014. Mainly because lack of funds to put into things I don't really need. I have been member since.. Second year? Have so much box sets to still listen for the first time, so now seemed like good time to take a break and only buy box if I really need it.

Muslimgauze box was one of reasons to quit. I have never liked it. Don't need 10 LP box of that. Another was the weird idea of putting out MASSIVE  "80's INDUSTRIAL & AVANTGARDE" BOX consistin 13 LP's!

I mean, would be certainly interested in K2, Vox Populi, but do I want misc early tracks with 9 more LP's of stuff what appears to be unrelated in all other ways but.. being made in 80's. One bonus Vox Populi 7" doesn't sweeten the deal much.

VOD132.1/2    Death & Beauty Foundation Recordings 1981-84 (2Lp)
VOD132.3       Counter Dance Recordings 1979-81 (1Lp)
VOD132.4       Silverstar Amoeba Recordings 1983-85 (1Lp)
VOD132.5/6    Vox Populi 2Lp Recordings 1983-88 (plus 7" for members)
VOD132.7/8    Funeral Dance Party Recordings 1981-82 (2Lp)
VOD132.9/10  K2 Recordings 1981-83 (2Lp)
VOD132.11/12 Robert Haigh Recordings 1983-85 (2Lp)
VOD132.13     Blockader / Chris Connelly Recordings 1983-85 (1Lp)

But I do consider returning to member for 2015 if economic situation allows..

*LE SYNDICAT  early Tape-Works 82-85 5Lp
*SPERM / PEKKA AIRAKSINEN  Works 67-85 5Lp

Edited or not, yes thanks! ;)

I don't really see extra music, be it on Tape, CD or Vinyl, as merchandise... that's an extra to those who like extras and want them, that's the reason of making a limited number of special editions with extra music. Music that most probably would never been made available otherwise on that form.
Adding extra stuff to a release, such a bonus CD for example, will add a significant production cost to each copy of the special version, that's the reason for charging more and the reason for making it limited to a small amount is due to not everyone wants those extras and not everyone is whiling to pay for them. Some may overcharge it, specially when the limitation is not that limited, but that will depend on the label and the way it is managed. I think everyone knows this.
I see nothing wrong with extra music and I personally like it.
For me, merchandise is something different. Shirts, patches, pins, stickers, caps and so on, that's merchandise.
Different packaging, extra music, that's not merchandise and not useless in anyway. Extra music it's welcome, and I'm happy to buy it when I can pay for it or think is a reasonable price for what it contains.

Quite honestly all the super expensive deluxe editions/sets usually put me off. I'd rather that the label just made the music available in a reasonably priced format without all the extra bells and whistles.

For a lot of stuff (especially with reissues) I'd just prefer if the music came out as individual discs (CD or Vinyl) for no more than $20 each max. I will buy deluxe boxsets occasionally but they're not what I prefer.

I dunno if this is specifically relevant to the topic, but for last couple years I've noticed Hell's Headbangers on their physical releases offer an option of an "add on digital file" for $1.99 or some shit...as if the person buying the tangible goods gives a shit about some digital file to go along as some sort of extra with the physical release. I think Bandcamp does something similar and I cannot stand it...drives me crazy this "digital file" age.

Quote from: Cranial Blast on January 08, 2024, 01:56:12 AMas if the person buying the tangible goods gives a shit about some digital file to go along as some sort of extra with the physical release. I think Bandcamp does something similar and I cannot stand it

I would put it differently. - As if the person who buys your product has to pay more for 'air' .

No. If you buy a product through Bandcamp, you have access to the digital files as well.

Quote from: Theodore on January 08, 2024, 07:58:13 AM

Quote from: Cranial Blast on January 08, 2024, 01:56:12 AMas if the person buying the tangible goods gives a shit about some digital file to go along as some sort of extra with the physical release. I think Bandcamp does something similar and I cannot stand it

I would put it differently. - As if the person who buys your product has to pay more for 'air' .

No. If you buy a product through Bandcamp, you have access to the digital files as well.

Yes, better put indeed!

Yeah that's true, you're getting the file for free as opposed to having to buy it for a small supplemental price like over at HHR.

I normally buy everything I like, still prefer tangible goods. I am on hold on acquiring records and shirts since my house is to full of stuff, but will return to bad habits once I will have space again

If it can be confined within the item's case (patch, razor, bullets whatever), fine with me. When it's useless junk that raises postage and clutters shelves however it can fuck off.

Quote from: Ashmonger on December 30, 2013, 01:14:46 AMI like the way for example NWN deals with it: you want the backpatch, patch, tape, flag, I don't know what, you buy the die-hard edition; you don't need it, you buy the normal edition, that works for me. Mostly I buy the normal edition, but have bought a couple die-hard editions, because I was interested in having a patch of the band.
I don't mind stickers or posters, not that I use them, but in some cases it's nice to have an extra big version of the cover art, and they don't take much extra place in the shelf. Only poster which I thought was really retarded was the one that comes with the Acid Witch - Stoned album, it's just the square cover art stretched to fit a rectangular poster, so that you have an oval moon...
In some cases I'd even wish they made the merch available separately, for example in these cases:
http://www.discogs.com/Ordo-Rosarius-Equilibrio-Four/release/3564288 (http://www.discogs.com/Ordo-Rosarius-Equilibrio-Four/release/3564288)
http://www.discogs.com/Sonne-Hagal-Only-Echoes-Remain/release/3384230 (http://www.discogs.com/Sonne-Hagal-Only-Echoes-Remain/release/3384230)
I'd really like the ORE patch and pin and the Sonne Hagal patch (I'm having a thing for band patches which are more a symbol than just a band logo lately, such as the Satanic Warmaster - Werwolf patch, Clandestine Blaze symbol, Vemod abraxas symbol patch...)...

I don't know if you like the band Black Magick SS at all, but they've put out some pretty awesome patches in recent times that are like how described about being not just a patch of band name, but of like a relevant image to a song or some type of sigil that's synonymous with the band.

Topic is already 10 years old haha, nice1

Quote from: Cranial Blast on January 08, 2024, 01:56:12 AMI dunno if this is specifically relevant to the topic, but for last couple years I've noticed Hell's Headbangers on their physical releases offer an option of an "add on digital file" for $1.99 or some shit...as if the person buying the tangible goods gives a shit about some digital file to go along as some sort of extra with the physical release. I think Bandcamp does something similar and I cannot stand it...drives me crazy this "digital file" age.

Don't you always get a digital file for free with a purchase from Bandcamp? Paying for both the same CD/LP/Tape and also the digital product seems a bit much to me. But also, do you really mind giving the label a bit more if the artist deserves it?

Also putting a razor blade with your release seems really stupid to me unless it really really really fits the release. Buying a razor blade is as easy as buying a banana, please, you are not that hard.

Quote from: W.K. on January 11, 2024, 11:07:04 PMTopic is already 10 years old haha, nice1

Quote from: Cranial Blast on January 08, 2024, 01:56:12 AMI dunno if this is specifically relevant to the topic, but for last couple years I've noticed Hell's Headbangers on their physical releases offer an option of an "add on digital file" for $1.99 or some shit...as if the person buying the tangible goods gives a shit about some digital file to go along as some sort of extra with the physical release. I think Bandcamp does something similar and I cannot stand it...drives me crazy this "digital file" age.

Don't you always get a digital file for free with a purchase from Bandcamp? Paying for both the same CD/LP/Tape and also the digital product seems a bit much to me. But also, do you really mind giving the label a bit more if the artist deserves it?

Also putting a razor blade with your release seems really stupid to me unless it really really really fits the release. Buying a razor blade is as easy as buying a banana, please, you are not that hard.

I don't know why that's funny. Did I create a forum violation or am I not suppose to open new comment on an old topic, because it's now a decade old? Other people have made conversation since my post on the matter, so it has no relevance now?

You do get a free digital file with bandcamp. I misspoke in previous post. I agree with you paying for every kind of format can be a bit much, but if some people think they need to, then I guess so be it. Is the label and or artist really raking in any real supplemental income to speak of at offering 1.99 for a download? I'd think they would do better to forget the download thing all together and only support real tangible media and forget the peanuts their going to squander up with 1.99 downloads and have more dignity to not even tread into that "digital" sales territory like the rest of the mainstream music world. In my opinion everyone should buy tangible media first and foremost, once everything shifts towards becoming digital download you can see the awful territory that'll come with that. So as underground music is concerned, I'd think more underground labels would reject this  download business as in the future it will serve us all terribly.

Well you just said it, unless it really really really fits the release and it does really really really fit the release and also at artist's request as it fit in line the first time around when the material was first made and he laments to me about not doing it then, so we're doing it now as part of the comp. Reissue tape. It's not about because, it's a cheap add on to the release, it's because of it's relevance to the release. Nobody is being "hard" as you call it. This isn't deathrow records or something "gangsta"...so that type of hip hop language is not synonymous with the topic in any context. That's just you blindfolded trying cast a rock in my direction hoping to hit me with it and well...you didn't hit me with it.

Wow, easy there, I didn't mean it personally to you. Lighten up a bit. Sheesh.

Quote from: W.K. on January 13, 2024, 02:07:07 AMWow, easy there, I didn't mean it personally to you. Lighten up a bit. Sheesh.

It seemed to me that you were taking a jab at me personally by your comment towards me, but if you say no and that was not your intention, then perhaps I misinterpreted your comment. In that case, I apologize and don't want to come off as harsh or vindictive.