Giving the genre seems flooded with releases and I have very little idea of how to navigate it. Someone with the proper knowledge please fill me in on the essential Harsh Noise Wall releases.
Get one release by The Rita & be done with it. Or just make a tape yourself with some Euro-sleaze film imagery; it'll be just as good as anyone else who has numerous releases.
Infirmary is good from the couple tapes I've heard. There is an LP on GapingHole.
Vomir, Godless Girl (Ascities side project). I'm no authority; get more than 1 or 2 releases by a few HNW artists and they'll all run together. Or just get that "Total Slittings of Throats" with a bunch of fags doing the exact same sound all layered one on top of the other..
Funny you mention Infirmary because I heard the LP and absolutely despised it. Totally shallow onelayered line-in recording. I was always under the impression that HNW had to do with large field/room recording type stuff. Not flat electronic 4tracker sound??
Am I completely off or are there as with much else different approaches to the HNW sound?
GRIZ+ZLOR is a project that should be known. Track on the ADR comp and very limited cassette box set coming in 2011 as well.
Majority of recordings of wall of noise which I hear, is indeed something close to line-in recordings. Focusing on rumbles / crackles / hiss / fuzz in ways that its pretty much the "super close-up" of the sound. More of hearing the sound of pedal rather than sound of amps in room for example. Listening the details of crackles and distortion fuzz, rather than loud amplifier damage.
I think the best "wall of noise" may be the ones who don't probably aim for it, but hold many similar characteristics. One could refer some specific works of Haters, Incapacitants, etc. Some works may have the density and monolithic quality of "wall", yet there is endless amount of texture and movement on smaller level. I think "the essentials" of wall noise is about the same as essentials of noise in general.
to me INFIRMARY's "necropenetrator" doesn't sound at all like HNW, pretty typical harsh noise. would compare it to, say, PAIN JERK. or am i talking about another record here...?
i'm not a HNW-afficionado, but when the mood strikes i'll usually play something like VICE WEARS BLACK HOSE lp on Urashima. this label may be the only "modern HNW" label that i actively follow. since this genre is so concept driven, it's especially important to have the sound presented in a stylish manner: a nice slab of vinyl that makes a well crafted wall sound thicker and more punishing. Urashima lp covers look smooth too (yes, the giallo-shit can be pretty cool when done right). plus to me a side of a 12" is an ideal length for an unmoving wall.
Quote from: Max on October 21, 2010, 08:12:10 PM
to me INFIRMARY's "necropenetrator" doesn't sound at all like HNW, pretty typical harsh noise. would compare it to, say, PAIN JERK. or am i talking about another record here...?
I think the opening track is, but not the rest of album. There is review somewhere here. There is quite a lot of variation of that LP, but I wouldn't find Pain Jerk'ish stuff necessarily. Of course matter on what basis comparisons would be done. Some of the fierce "hi-fi" sound pressure certainly could be, but what comes to method of composition or texture... not really.
various Incapacitants
various Chop Shop
Hermann Nitsch - Islands
The Rita - Sea Wolf Leviathan
The Rita - Anna Christie
Heamorraging Fetus - s/t 3"CD
Heamorraging Fetus - Procreation: A Disease/Tangled Desires LP
I'd like to have dug deeper into this clique, but I lack the economic motivation to even begin to mess with it now.
Get "Total Slitting Of Throats" then forget about the genre as a whole. You'll have the whole "militant harsh noise wall" thing right there in one handy album.
As for projects that actually identify as HNW, The Rita, The Cherry Point, maybe the odd bit of Vomir, and that's it.
As for the rest, don't even piss on them. It has become too fucking easy for people to toss off "HNW". Find a tone you like, record it for an hour, stick it on a tape, there's your release. I've noticed nearly every second Noise release these days is classified as "HNW" and it's shitting me. It's too easy to do, that's why there's so much of it. There is PLENTY of Noise that is so built up and layered it could be passed off as "HNW" and that's usually the more interesting material.
But my advice is, anything labelled as HNW these days is best ignored. The world does not need another fucking box set of variations on a bit of static crackle.
What we need is a discussion on minimalism. That would cover a lot more ground.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on October 22, 2010, 01:09:09 AMAs for projects that actually identify as HNW, The Rita, The Cherry Point, maybe the odd bit of Vomir, and that's it.
I have to disagree with this. I've barely touched the neo-wall noise surface, and just one example of someone who continues to slip undrer the radar, with as horrible as the moniker is, Heamorraging Fetus is truly impressive noise. There has to be others in this clusterfuck. That LP on SNSE is one of the best all-out noise releases I've heard maybe this decade. I know I've played it more than any other noise release in recent memory, even more than some of The Rita's that I found top shelf. And the 3"CD I listed is probably even better than the LP.
I better go back and re-listen to Total Slitting of Throats, because it didn't hit me like it apparently did others.
The Vomir thing strikes me as something similar to the Masonna phenomena. It's a kitsch collector thing more than anything else. I like Masonna. I'd probably like Vomir. I'm not taking a shot at either of them. It's just sort of where we're at right now.
In fact I got interested in Heamorraging Fetus when I read Chris's review of the 12" in Night Science, so I'm going to take the tip and try to find out more.
I suppose my point is that with HWN as an actual genre there's only so far it can go (of course) and that if anyone's going to acquaint themselves with it, there's what I regard a real limit to such a stark, minimal style. The Total Slitting Of Throats is, in itself, an example only, in that any other HWN album could be an example. I mentioned it since it's a collaboration of the major suspects in the genre. Same with Vomir; apparently Masonna wanted to be "the Ramones of Noise", so Vomir can be the Ramones of HWN, and from what I've heard, he's succeeding. Once you've heard such stark, minimal sound it's really only a question of the tiniest degree.
I've had a personal issue with this whole thing for a while now. There's been a lot of Noise, over the years, that revels in being huge, minimal/maximal blocks of total sound. But now we've got this bullshit term that's narrowed the whole thing down even finer. I also have a problem with it's proliferation; it's a sign of laziness and lack of imagination to me.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on October 22, 2010, 03:51:42 AMit's a sign of laziness and lack of imagination to me.
The Echo Generation. It's not just a term sociologists and marketers throw around in their think tanks. Shit is actually applicable.
Keranen - Green car crash - not HNW per se, but it is actually worth listening to, and I think it has the consistency of HNW releases
Quote from: ADR on October 21, 2010, 07:59:46 PM
GRIZ+ZLOR is a project that should be known. Track on the ADR comp
yes that track is very nice. is all their material in the same vein?
I'm in the same boat as the thread starter: have absolutely no clue about this sub-genre. I do find it interesting that no one has mentioned Richard Ramirez yet...isn't he supposed to be a big prolific HNW guy?
The whole concept-driven thing is kind of funny to me...this release is about creepy urban landscapes at night = 30 minutes of crunching static. Or this release is about rape and dominance = 30 minutes of crunching static. Or this release is about mass graves and genocide = 30 minutes of crunching static.
Just had a listen to a sample from the newly released Black Air album, Paris, and think it's a perfect example of what RG is referring to. Apparently the crunching static this time signifies "the wormholes of used stockings laying about the 1920s streets".
Concepts in Noise, though, is a totally separate can of worms and worthy of another discussion in it's own right as well. In fact, it's been done to death already, I think. Best of luck to Black Air but again, not my damn thing.
good idea is to make a buddha machine with the static noise. take care of all your HNW needs
I'm pretty sure I have that H.FETUS LP but didn't think it was anything special or maybe I'm thinking of something else by him and never played the LP. Should dig it out. The problem w/HNW is I'm rarely int he mood to listen to something that is a wall that only has very mild changes. I've never considered Incapacitants HWN. Yeah, it's a wall but lots of stuff going on (I don't like the lack of low-end or all the 'squiggly' sounds). I don't like "Total Slitting..." either but at that time, I liked the fanaticism before it became a subgenre. Short doses is all I can take nowadays. I think "Total Slitting" is a love/hate deal: it's completely unlistenable for me so it's PURE NOISE which is great & it seems like should have been the be-all/end-all for its kind.
I find it odd that these wall fanatics aren't more interested in drone and minimalist ambient. The deep exploration of a texture, tonality, and harmonics would seemingly be right up their alley. Guess it isn't "metal" enough for them or something. MACHO. Like I said before, I think it has a lot more to do with the proliferation of something that you can collect and consume. The sound(s) is secondary, or maybe not even that high of a priority.
I can't think of any HNW "essentials". Nothing that I would say someone must have in their collection. Besides a few Black Leather Jesus cassettes the only releases I actually like are:
Order Of Nine Angels - Self Titled
Order Of Nine Angels - Possession
Order Of Nine Angels - The Abyss Is The Gate
Werewolf Jerusalem - Static Storm
Meat Shop Rapist - Distracted By The Actual Meat Of Her Complaint
Quote from: sportfan on October 22, 2010, 05:51:23 PM
good idea is to make a buddha machine with the static noise. take care of all your HNW needs
If one assumes most Noise fans are also Noise makers, all anyone has to do is set up their rig and let it buzz. That's the only way I can understand it; if someone does it for themselves alone.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on October 22, 2010, 01:09:09 AM
It has become too fucking easy for people to toss off. Find a tone you like, record it for an hour, stick it on a tape, there's your release. It's too easy to do, that's why there's so much of it.
Couldn't someone who listens to "normal" music, say exactly the same thing about all Noise(and Grindcore, Industrial, Punk, Ambient, Freejazz, Raw metal, whatever...) music?
It is true, that there is not much "artistic merit" in most HNW projects, but there are moments when I just need to listen to completely in your face, one-dimensional crumbling or static wall noise. And HNW is perfect for those kind of moments.
Quote from: NIKOZ on October 23, 2010, 03:35:03 AM
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on October 22, 2010, 01:09:09 AM
It has become too fucking easy for people to toss off. Find a tone you like, record it for an hour, stick it on a tape, there's your release. It's too easy to do, that's why there's so much of it.
Couldn't someone who listens to "normal" music, say exactly the same thing about all Noise(and Grindcore, Industrial, Punk, Ambient, Freejazz, Raw metal, whatever...) music?
Probably, but if they did they wouldn't know what they where talking about. As someone who listens to Noise I like to think I do.
Quote from: NIKOZ on October 23, 2010, 03:35:03 AMIt is true, that there is not much "artistic merit" in most HNW projects, but there are moments when I just need to listen to completely in your face, one-dimensional crumbling or static wall noise. And HNW is perfect for those kind of moments.
Valid point. It's very much a mood thing and there is, I hope, an audience that take HWN as it is without having to justify it to anyone.
I did up a pretty solid 'selected playlist' for the end of my HNW article in AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE which is out this weekend if you want to check that out.
two separate top ten lists:
classic/1990s
contemporary/2000+
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on October 22, 2010, 01:09:09 AM
As for the rest, don't even piss on them. It has become too fucking easy for people to toss off "HNW". Find a tone you like, record it for an hour, stick it on a tape, there's your release. I've noticed nearly every second Noise release these days is classified as "HNW" and it's shitting me. It's too easy to do, that's why there's so much of it. There is PLENTY of Noise that is so built up and layered it could be passed off as "HNW" and that's usually the more interesting material.
But my advice is, anything labelled as HNW these days is best ignored. The world does not need another fucking box set of variations on a bit of static crackle.
I pretty much agree with everything said here. It is funny to me to think that someone could, for example, run a long drawn out sawtooth wave put through a handful of effects and record it and people will buy it up until it is sold out. Of course there are a few releases that do the wall thing well, they give off the vibe of nothingness to the extreme (if that makes any sense at all), static nihilism maybe sounds better. Even still these projects are only bearable to me for a few quick spins and I usually don't even take them off the shelf for a long while after. On paper HNW seems like it would sound better than it does and the live shows I have witnessed are entertaining, but that doesn't necessarily cross over into a "studio" recording. "Walls" are not something I actively search out with the exception of
Order of Nine Angels who conveys that "nothingness to the extreme" in the most malevolent way I have yet heard and all of it ties up perfectly with his aesthetic, the formula simply just works together very well. I also enjoy the first 2
Silence of Vacuum cassettes. One other thing I like about both projects is that they don't delve into the Roughie/Horror Movie/Giallo stuff which is becoming somewhat banal and routine.
To my original list I would add
Bachir Gemayel - "Assassination" and
Bachir Gemayel - "Blitzkrieg" as well (it is a huge shame that the "St. Charbel" set was limited to only 15) and some of The Rita material, my favorite being the split with Bone Awl. I know people either hate BA or love them but if you like lo-fi walls than I suggest you listen to this release and it has very little Black Metal influence in there. On it The Rita is doing some of his best crumbling and buzzing walls and then Bone Awl will step in (they alternate tracks for the entire tape) and pretty much do the same thing but with instruments; blown out static walls with some barely audible lyrics, Guitars riffs that sound more like pulsating crunches, and faint movement (the drums I assume) that you can barely hear snapping away in the background like a loop. Both projects created great tracks for that split. But if you are just getting into HNW it may not be to your liking.
The Rita/Bone Owl tape is a favorite here also but i must admit that i can´t agree at all the music you describe on Bone Awl. I haven´t played it for awhile but the last time i listened to it the Bone Owl songs were songs and very punk and straightforward like they use to sound. Their recordings are rough sounding for sure but on my copy you can hear actual songs that is easy to head banging to, like a good hardcore song not "blown out static walls with some barely audible lyrics, Guitars riffs that sound more like pulsating crunches, and faint movement (the drums I assume) that you can barely hear snapping away in the background like a loop".
So i just wonder if maybe my your copy is sounding wrong? Wierd!
Vomir was mentioned and he's damn good.
Richard Ramirez releases under shitloads of project names, most of it HNW, and he does a damn fine job at HNW. Besides his actual name, he is also in projects such as:
The Blackmoor Strangler
Werewolf Jerusalem
An Innocent Young Throatcutter
Last Rape
Fouke
and more i can't think of.
Quote from: Mattias G on October 24, 2010, 09:30:28 PM
The Rita/Bone Owl tape is a favorite here also but i must admit that i can´t agree at all the music you describe on Bone Awl. I haven´t played it for awhile but the last time i listened to it the Bone Owl songs were songs and very punk and straightforward like they use to sound. Their recordings are rough sounding for sure but on my copy you can hear actual songs that is easy to head banging to, like a good hardcore song not "blown out static walls with some barely audible lyrics, Guitars riffs that sound more like pulsating crunches, and faint movement (the drums I assume) that you can barely hear snapping away in the background like a loop".
So i just wonder if maybe my your copy is sounding wrong? Wierd!
You know I actually thought of this when I received my cassette a few years ago but I don't know, a lot of people on my forums ( http://philiastench.freeforums.org/ ) have always agreed with me and the reviews I have read like those on Metal-Archives, Outerspace Game LAN, NWN!, etc. say the exact same thing, i.e.:
"The artists alternate tracks on this split but that hardly makes a difference because one sound and one sound only dominates the duration of the record: harsh, fairly low-frequency white noise with a slight rhythmic modulation that's barely perceptible."
You can hear the songs perfectly on this years release, "Sunless Xyggos" which is all of those songs re-done instrumentally so you can actually hear them. Or maybe you just got really lucky and got a clearer version of the cassette. But I'm listening to my copy right now and it is definitely static walls with the occasional buried cymbal crash or quick lead, rarely, peaking through the static.
Cherry Point/Dried Up Corpse Split Tape
Blue Sabbath Black Cheer/Sixes Split Tape
Bone Awl songs are distinct and audible on my cassette so maybe some of the dubbing was just poorly dubbed. Definitely recommended though if it can still be found. I used to cook to that tape a lot.
Quote from: ConcreteMascara on October 25, 2010, 05:50:30 AM
Bone Awl songs are distinct and audible on my cassette
Same here. No question about which is which or when one ends and the other begins. I wish it was a true split and not alternating.
Quote from: RyanWreck on October 25, 2010, 12:26:46 AM
Quote from: Mattias G on October 24, 2010, 09:30:28 PM
The Rita/Bone Owl tape is a favorite here also but i must admit that i can´t agree at all the music you describe on Bone Awl. I haven´t played it for awhile but the last time i listened to it the Bone Owl songs were songs and very punk and straightforward like they use to sound. Their recordings are rough sounding for sure but on my copy you can hear actual songs that is easy to head banging to, like a good hardcore song not "blown out static walls with some barely audible lyrics, Guitars riffs that sound more like pulsating crunches, and faint movement (the drums I assume) that you can barely hear snapping away in the background like a loop".
So i just wonder if maybe my your copy is sounding wrong? Wierd!
You know I actually thought of this when I received my cassette a few years ago but I don't know, a lot of people on my forums ( http://philiastench.freeforums.org/ ) have always agreed with me and the reviews I have read like those on Metal-Archives, Outerspace Game LAN, NWN!, etc. say the exact same thing, i.e.:
"The artists alternate tracks on this split but that hardly makes a difference because one sound and one sound only dominates the duration of the record: harsh, fairly low-frequency white noise with a slight rhythmic modulation that's barely perceptible."
You can hear the songs perfectly on this years release, "Sunless Xyggos" which is all of those songs re-done instrumentally so you can actually hear them. Or maybe you just got really lucky and got a clearer version of the cassette. But I'm listening to my copy right now and it is definitely static walls with the occasional buried cymbal crash or quick lead, rarely, peaking through the static.
Maybe they put out two different versions of it? It would be very strange if some bad dubbed tapes made that big change in the sound. This is a mystery!
Quote from: Mattias G on October 25, 2010, 09:08:31 AM
Quote from: RyanWreck on October 25, 2010, 12:26:46 AM
Quote from: Mattias G on October 24, 2010, 09:30:28 PM
The Rita/Bone Owl tape is a favorite here also but i must admit that i can´t agree at all the music you describe on Bone Awl. I haven´t played it for awhile but the last time i listened to it the Bone Owl songs were songs and very punk and straightforward like they use to sound. Their recordings are rough sounding for sure but on my copy you can hear actual songs that is easy to head banging to, like a good hardcore song not "blown out static walls with some barely audible lyrics, Guitars riffs that sound more like pulsating crunches, and faint movement (the drums I assume) that you can barely hear snapping away in the background like a loop".
So i just wonder if maybe my your copy is sounding wrong? Wierd!
You know I actually thought of this when I received my cassette a few years ago but I don't know, a lot of people on my forums ( http://philiastench.freeforums.org/ ) have always agreed with me and the reviews I have read like those on Metal-Archives, Outerspace Game LAN, NWN!, etc. say the exact same thing, i.e.:
"The artists alternate tracks on this split but that hardly makes a difference because one sound and one sound only dominates the duration of the record: harsh, fairly low-frequency white noise with a slight rhythmic modulation that's barely perceptible."
You can hear the songs perfectly on this years release, "Sunless Xyggos" which is all of those songs re-done instrumentally so you can actually hear them. Or maybe you just got really lucky and got a clearer version of the cassette. But I'm listening to my copy right now and it is definitely static walls with the occasional buried cymbal crash or quick lead, rarely, peaking through the static.
Maybe they put out two different versions of it? It would be very strange if some bad dubbed tapes made that big change in the sound. This is a mystery!
That would be strange because I am almost certain that they never re-pressed, but it is still possible to lose source material and have to make second generation tapes. Maybe Mr. Rita could give us an answer?
I know everyone has a different opinion on that tape so maybe its 100% subjective. Myself and others hear buried walls, you and others hear that American hardcore hoe-down sound that Bone Awl are masters at.
my moneys on a poopy dub. I took out mine and had a listen and the metal sounds sounds fine and audible.
wallz is not really my thing. things ive liked: vomirs track on some split and rita what else....the bulk of my experience comes from clicking the myspace link when someone points out this is my hnw project and indeed the line in sound is an absolut turnoff. if the project is based on borrowing mr sams concept I would hope it would also include the in your faceness of the noise and not just the theme.
E D I T : dead body love was good 2. the wall word is something weird. a lot of the hnw myspace stuff ive heard is more like the first layer of paint and certainly not the whole thing.
nevermind
Quote from: THE RITA HN on October 23, 2010, 09:50:11 AM
I did up a pretty solid 'selected playlist' for the end of my HNW article in AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE which is out this weekend if you want to check that out.
two separate top ten lists:
classic/1990s
contemporary/2000+
As loud as possible #1 came out last friday, and grabbed my copy while in London. This article The Rita is talking about, is pretty decent article. I think genre allows and has, tried to make more links and more referencepoints during the time that article was waiting to be published. Starting point of glorification of cruchy mid 90's americanoise is very much audible from many bands, but most definitely there has been also shifts of focus?
Artwork of article has been seen before, but the full page offset printed actionman photo with very detailed choise of clothing & tools, is something I appreciate more, than idea of computer generated fuzz (for example).
Like Max said, I think Urashima LP's are good. Not all perfect by the musical standards, but when you approach the "subgenre" as form of art, and the packaging & aesthetic is strong part of it, I do prefer the black vinyl, black covers with silver silkscreens etc. with slightly erotic & violent overtones.
I know I've been as loud adversary against "HNW" as anyone (heh), but eventually it's more up to thinking why would subgenre be bad or good? When there is word for anything, from tiniest difference. When small rocks turns to sand and transforms to dust? Why make difference if difference is so small? Well, it might not be useful. Why your girlfriend is insulted when you tell the dress is pretty nice, and you should be infact calling it "skirt". And you think whatever females wear, is perfectly fine to call "dress" even if there's millions of variations and terms for them. Why you can't just take "beer" in bar, but have to select stout, ale, lager, whatever... You can order beer of course, but the devotees look at you like some clueless jerk. Did you come here just to get wasted, or appreciate good beer?? You can of course file everything as "noise", or even as "music", but if in other music styles, even mere pace of drumming will define whether you are doing tango, waltz, polka etc, why problem that details defining directions within the noise?
I know the answer, since it's what is/has been my logic when opposing HNW. That as part of experimental music, when you choose to remain follower of something that others created, and choose to insert zero amount of your own creativity, it may become pointless. It has no other role that follower / participation within "scene". Even if being "ok", due faceless copycat reality, there is zero reason to listen to it, if it shows material done virtually with gear & method copies from originators and in form of "easy side project" rather than something what was thought out, researched and results of experiments. I would see that there are endless amount of texture, grain, pressure, atmosphere, source, inspiration, theme, topic, and so on, to be used within context of "HNW", so it just remains to be done properly with talent.
Not my cup of tea really but VOMIR CD on AtWarW/FalseNoise is great. Listened it w/pretty decent car hi-fi while driving on motorway. Loud void. If some small details would have been there it would have been perfect experience like on 5 min. some female screams then on 15 minutes more etc. THAT would be something.
I forgot to mention both of the Flowerday tapes. Personally I like "Snuff Victim" better: "Violent harsh noise walls created with nails and tapes, by R.E. Fontainebleau." It works well. But "Girl On Film" is nice too but it isn't strictly "wall" through-out its entirety. I think both are still available through Cathartic Process.
I think Flowerday "snuff victim" was total boredom. I didn't find any value in it, beyond very well made job behalf of label in technical side. But packaging & overall quality didn't save the fact, that there wasn't anything interesting soundwise. It would be easy to see appeal on lowest interests of sex& violence, but as far as sound goes, I could list instantly countless better ones.
Essentials?
The rita, Vomir, Werewolf Jerusalem
newer projcets I really like:
HASH, I dreamt of her beautiful tentacles, Stress, Mossy Pussy, etc.
music fans: "noise is lazy, anyone can do it"
pe/noise fans"HNW is lazy, anyone can do it"
what's next? i don care , to be honest...really
Judging from the three pages of response it becomes pretty clear to me that my impression of what is classified as wall noise is pretty wrong....
I asked the question in the first place since I made recordings that I thought might be classified as wall noise. Now it's clear to me that they probably wont. And since I'm satisfied with them anyway it doesn't make mu difference I guess
But cheers for response
QuoteFunny you mention Infirmary because I heard the LP and absolutely despised it. Totally shallow onelayered line-in recording. I was always under the impression that HNW had to do with large field/room recording type stuff. Not flat electronic 4tracker sound??
Am I completely off or are there as with much else different approaches to the HNW sound?
Cool, first negative feedback I've heard about that LP.
Yes, it is one-layered because we recorded it live in segments.
We had a full room of gear set up at the time and a 3 foot wide 70's era mixer everything was feeding into, sheet metal and electronics everywhere. It was full-blast electronic and vocal freakouts while under the influence of psychedelic mushrooms and negative energies, we had a bad trip while recording this record.
It was recorded on a Tascam 488, and there was no digital mastering done. So the LP is completely analog, cassette analog to be more specific.
I do stuff with the HNW scene, but am not looking to be labeled as a HNW artist because most of my stuff is non-stationary and I also do ambient, drone, and doom all within the same project.
You can hear lossless files of different Infirmary material here to catch my drift: http://soundcloud.com/infirmary (http://soundcloud.com/infirmary)
I'm also an audio engineer who masters for vinyl and cd frequently, so if it's left raw and dirty it's because I wanted it to be raw and dirty. I also like recording with old open-air cassette recorders.
Infirmary is not a HNW project, only a few of my works fit that category with no gray area.
A more accurate description would be a doom-obsessed eclectic and literally schizophrenic noise artist.
Quote
I heard the LP and absolutely despised it.
Why did you despise it? Because it didn't fit the genre you wanted it to?
QuoteI was always under the impression that HNW had to do with large field/room recording type stuff.
That sounds more like electro-acoustic or ambient music than wall noise which is more obsessed with tape and distortion, not that I care about what genre my project is thrown into.
If I were going to make something more digitally than yes, a large stereo field can be achieved with the click of a mouse.
http://harshnoisehell.blogspot.com/ (http://harshnoisehell.blogspot.com/)
myspace.com/therealmysterypill (http://myspace.com/therealmysterypill)
I really liked the sound of "Dark Energy..." but have to say the samples of "Dilate The Eyes" and "From Hell It Came" really do fit the stereotype of HNW; crackly, mainly static, up-front, etc.
Phroq has a web release that is probably as simple as chewing gum and sticking it underneath a desk, but I couldn't care less. The texture is so sublime that I can listen to it endlessly. Unfortunately, Phroq claims they didn't save the .wav files, so all we have are some lousy MP3s. That material is very much in the monolithic style.
Quote from: sportfan on October 22, 2010, 05:51:23 PM
good idea is to make a buddha machine with the static noise. take care of all your HNW needs
Here you go:
(http://www.gold-line.com/pwn1a.gif)
What irks me is about HNW is the "we're obsessed with Gialli"-trend. Fine, I like Argento etc. too but everyone doesn't have to start a HNW project about it...
I think our LAFMS London-crew's collective idea about a Bud Spencer/Terence Hill-themed HNW project would be worth doing...I'd call it Flatfoot.
(http://www.daaveedee.com/images/products/flatfoot-in-afrika_lrg.jpg)
QuoteI really liked the sound of "Dark Energy..." but have to say the samples of "Dilate The Eyes" and "From Hell It Came" really do fit the stereotype of HNW; crackly, mainly static, up-front, etc.
Well that's because they were supposed to, thank you.
Check out Gomeisa, and what Vomir has been doing lately.
also Griz+zlor... essential
And don't neglect Is- Pressure Vessel
Quote from: Haare on November 03, 2010, 09:19:19 AMWhat irks me is about HNW is the "we're obsessed with Gialli"-trend. Fine, I like Argento etc. too but everyone doesn't have to start a HNW project about it...
ok, but just let me point out there's NOT MUCH HNW connected to giallo nowadays...
mostly richard ramirez's own projects and his friends
as an 'HNW artist' i feel quite uncomfortable by always being connected to that kind of stuff, and it's the same with a lot others, trust me
if you talk with other ppl involved in the scene, everybody will tell you that's just a false cliche
HNW isn't giallo inspired more than harsh noise is serial killer inspired
anyway, i completely understand why ppl doesn't like (or even hate) HNW, i may just say, do your own researches and find stuff you like and if you're really interested, ask artists about their thoughts and motivations on the genre, read some interviews (for example on www.musiquemachine.com), i'm pretty sure you'll change your mind (i mean, it could still be not your cup of tea, but you'll surely understand there's more than giallo behind it)
about HNW being easy to do, i'm not here to say the contrary, but guess we aren't judging 'art' by its difficulty since couple of decades..
then consider this: when everybody does very simple things, it becomes quite difficult to do
interesting and valuable very simple things
Quote from: alessio on November 03, 2010, 03:53:25 PM
Quote from: Haare on November 03, 2010, 09:19:19 AMWhat irks me is about HNW is the "we're obsessed with Gialli"-trend. Fine, I like Argento etc. too but everyone doesn't have to start a HNW project about it...
ok, but just let me point out there's NOT MUCH HNW connected to giallo nowadays...
mostly richard ramirez's own projects and his friends
Through a quick Google search:
An innocent young throatcutter
Macchie Solari
Four flies
Vice Wears Black Hose
Fukte
LadyKiller
La Tarantola dal Ventre Nero
Hatchet for the Honeymoon
Torso
L'occhio Nel Labirinto
Death Carries a Cane
House with laughing windows
...nuf said?
Btw I'm not opposed to HNW, I actually like some of the stuff. I just don't need so much of it & I wish people would use their imagination a bit more. "Hey, Giallo HNW! I can do that! I think I'll do it just like those other dudes!"
If you are worried about running out of good names for your future projects, i give you the Giallo generator!
http://www.braineater.com/misc/giallo_intro.html
I enjoyed the Giallo generator, automatic aesthetic without having to actually watch the movie.
Quote from: Haare on November 03, 2010, 04:12:56 PM
Quote from: alessio on November 03, 2010, 03:53:25 PM
Quote from: Haare on November 03, 2010, 09:19:19 AMWhat irks me is about HNW is the "we're obsessed with Gialli"-trend. Fine, I like Argento etc. too but everyone doesn't have to start a HNW project about it...
ok, but just let me point out there's NOT MUCH HNW connected to giallo nowadays...
mostly richard ramirez's own projects and his friends
Through a quick Google search:
An innocent young throatcutter
Macchie Solari
Four flies
Vice Wears Black Hose
Fukte
LadyKiller
La Tarantola dal Ventre Nero
Hatchet for the Honeymoon
Torso
L'occhio Nel Labirinto
Death Carries a Cane
House with laughing windows
...nuf said?
Btw I'm not opposed to HNW, I actually like some of the stuff. I just don't need so much of it & I wish people would use their imagination a bit more. "Hey, Giallo HNW! I can do that! I think I'll do it just like those other dudes!"
that list just confirms what i told you, in fact almost ALL those ARE richard's own projects or his friends'
(i guess only Fukte isn't 'richard related', he's a friend of mine and probably just one or two of his releases have the giallo theme anyway)
check out richard's projects list on discogs
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Richard+Ramirez
anyway, EVERYBODY on the scene knows that almost only richard and his close friends are still using the giallo theme
please don't confuse his own obsession and tastes with the whole scene,
that's plain false
yeah there's actually not much giallo hnw besides richard's stuff .
i record hnw too and i'm not interested in giallo movies .
essentials :
the rita - thousands of dead gods
vomir - proanomie
QuoteWhy did you despise it? Because it didn't fit the genre you wanted it to?
When I heard the recording I didn't even know that this qualified as HNW, so no. I guess using the word "despised" was to harsh and unwise. It's not like I'm loosing sleep or vouch for a tribunal because of a noise record. It just did absolutely nothing for me. Hearing that you guys did it all as a big jam session actually makes me want to hear room recordings of such jams. I think that would be something I would enjoy more. But each to his own. I was definitely not trying to make unfriends but since you handled the criticism as an adult I guess I haven't in the end.
cheers
btw, more on topic, i guess this should work perfectly as introduction
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Stasis001/release/2332200
it's a data DVDr on canadian Stasis, you get a lot of quality shit from some of the 'big names', for cheap
Another data dvd; excellent. Good to see this trend continued. Pity it's limited to fifty copies, though, and the website is offline at the moment and not accepting orders. I hope to get one sometime.
Quote from: alessio on November 03, 2010, 07:43:54 PM
Quote from: Haare on November 03, 2010, 04:12:56 PM
Quote from: alessio on November 03, 2010, 03:53:25 PM
Quote from: Haare on November 03, 2010, 09:19:19 AMWhat irks me is about HNW is the "we're obsessed with Gialli"-trend. Fine, I like Argento etc. too but everyone doesn't have to start a HNW project about it...
ok, but just let me point out there's NOT MUCH HNW connected to giallo nowadays...
mostly richard ramirez's own projects and his friends
Through a quick Google search:
An innocent young throatcutter
Macchie Solari
Four flies
Vice Wears Black Hose
Fukte
LadyKiller
La Tarantola dal Ventre Nero
Hatchet for the Honeymoon
Torso
L'occhio Nel Labirinto
Death Carries a Cane
House with laughing windows
...nuf said?
Btw I'm not opposed to HNW, I actually like some of the stuff. I just don't need so much of it & I wish people would use their imagination a bit more. "Hey, Giallo HNW! I can do that! I think I'll do it just like those other dudes!"
that list just confirms what i told you, in fact almost ALL those ARE richard's own projects or his friends'
(i guess only Fukte isn't 'richard related', he's a friend of mine and probably just one or two of his releases have the giallo theme anyway)
check out richard's projects list on discogs
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Richard+Ramirez
anyway, EVERYBODY on the scene knows that almost only richard and his close friends are still using the giallo theme
please don't confuse his own obsession and tastes with the whole scene, that's plain false
According to the discogs list, Richard's involved in four of those, so not exactly "almost all", but whatever, and afaik f.e. House with laughing windows is Mac of Koufar & some dude (he does have a project w/Richard though...Solange Tutunji, if memory serves.)
But I'll stop now. :)
QuoteWhen I heard the recording I didn't even know that this qualified as HNW, so no. I guess using the word "despised" was to harsh and unwise. It's not like I'm loosing sleep or vouch for a tribunal because of a noise record. It just did absolutely nothing for me. Hearing that you guys did it all as a big jam session actually makes me want to hear room recordings of such jams. I think that would be something I would enjoy more. But each to his own. I was definitely not trying to make unfriends but since you handled the criticism as an adult I guess I haven't in the end.
cheers
I do appreciate it, maybe I will remaster it with a spread out artificial room sound just to see what that might sound like.
Quote from: alessio on November 03, 2010, 07:43:54 PM
anyway, EVERYBODY on the scene knows that almost only richard and his close friends are still using the giallo theme
please don't confuse his own obsession and tastes with the whole scene, that's plain false
I published an 4 way split Lp titled ''Giallo'' and I wrote my opinion between Giallo movie and HNW artist on the insert:
...
In the multitude of extreme musical genres that identified the name of HNW, is linked to content and inclination to the trend of Giallo. As for the murderer, who appears regularly with black raincoat, hat and gloves, often brandishing a razor, the creativity of the artist HNW is hidden behind a wall of noise apparently always the same. Situated at the back of an impenetrable layer of sounds are hidden perversions, violence, depravity and vice often accompanied by passion for knives and torture.
The artist conceives the isolation of the individual in the metropolitan context with a ''sounds barrier'' creating tension, uneasiness and fear. Are the same feelings you feel for the victims (usually young women) and the murderer in the context of the film. The individual (victim, executioner or just spectator) is no longer the man, but the citizen who fails to fit into society generating anxiety and depression which in extreme cases leads him to madness.
...
QuoteSituated at the back of an impenetrable layer of sounds are hidden perversions, violence, depravity and vice often accompanied by passion for knives and torture.
The way I interpreted that sentence means it goes beyond the movies, and you actually like these things you speak of like murder, perversion, and all that?
Out of curiosity, I'm only asking to make sure I don't misunderstand you.
Quote from: Urashima on November 05, 2010, 12:25:54 AMIn the multitude of extreme musical genres that identified the name of HNW, is linked to content and inclination to the trend of Giallo. As for the murderer, who appears regularly with black raincoat, hat and gloves, often brandishing a razor, the creativity of the artist HNW is hidden behind a wall of noise apparently always the same. Situated at the back of an impenetrable layer of sounds are hidden perversions, violence, depravity and vice often accompanied by passion for knives and torture.
The artist conceives the isolation of the individual in the metropolitan context with a ''sounds barrier'' creating tension, uneasiness and fear. Are the same feelings you feel for the victims (usually young women) and the murderer in the context of the film. The individual (victim, executioner or just spectator) is no longer the man, but the citizen who fails to fit into society generating anxiety and depression which in extreme cases leads him to madness.
that's an interesting way to put it, the parallel actually works
but that just one of the many metaphors which can be used
if you ask me, the concepts that actually define hnw as a genre easily are
obsession and
static(giallo is just an obsession for some..
most hnw artists don't absolutely care about movies/killers as a theme for their work, but follow their own obsessions, in case they have one)
Quote from: Infirmary on November 07, 2010, 04:09:09 AM
QuoteSituated at the back of an impenetrable layer of sounds are hidden perversions, violence, depravity and vice often accompanied by passion for knives and torture.
The way I interpreted that sentence means it goes beyond the movies, and you actually like these things you speak of like murder, perversion, and all that?
Out of curiosity, I'm only asking to make sure I don't misunderstand you.
Hey Rick, I'm not a serial killer of young beatiful women...
But would you like to be? :)
That's what I meant, or is it the fact that movie samples of these hidden perversions, etc.. are used in edits and as source material?
I don't think my previous question was understood.
My English is not so good and my head is sick!
Use what you feel is more familiar as the source material. You can add dialogs / screaming / etc. taken from the movie as an introduction, a central theme or closure of the track according to your own mental involvement in that particular scene in the movie. The film can also affect the artwork and titles of what you're doing.
I will release very very soon a tribute to Richard Ramirez about his work inspired by the ''Giallo'' movie titled Black Glove Mania in a series of 7" in ultra limited quantities ... just for fanatics of HNW and / or Giallo movie!!!
QuoteMy English is not so good and my head is sick!
Use what you feel is more familiar as the source material. You can add dialogs / screaming / etc. taken from the movie as an introduction, a central theme or closure of the track according to your own mental involvement in that particular scene in the movie. The film can also affect the artwork and titles of what you're doing.
I will release very very soon a tribute to Richard Ramirez about his work inspired by the ''Giallo'' movie titled Black Glove Mania in a series of 7" in ultra limited quantities ... just for fanatics of HNW and / or Giallo movie!!!
Thanks, that answered my question perfectly. I've always loved the sound of the true Giallo-inspired projects, going to start watching through more of the movies soon. It's been made a lot easier (and less expensive) to check them out since I started using Netflix.
so much to wade through, gonna have to take it in pieces...
Quote from: Haare on November 04, 2010, 08:16:40 AM
Quote from: alessio on November 03, 2010, 07:43:54 PM
Quote from: Haare on November 03, 2010, 04:12:56 PM
Quote from: alessio on November 03, 2010, 03:53:25 PM
Quote from: Haare on November 03, 2010, 09:19:19 AMWhat irks me is about HNW is the "we're obsessed with Gialli"-trend. Fine, I like Argento etc. too but everyone doesn't have to start a HNW project about it...
ok, but just let me point out there's NOT MUCH HNW connected to giallo nowadays...
mostly richard ramirez's own projects and his friends
Through a quick Google search:
An innocent young throatcutter
Macchie Solari
Four flies
Vice Wears Black Hose
Fukte
LadyKiller
La Tarantola dal Ventre Nero
Hatchet for the Honeymoon
Torso
L'occhio Nel Labirinto
Death Carries a Cane
House with laughing windows
...nuf said?
Btw I'm not opposed to HNW, I actually like some of the stuff. I just don't need so much of it & I wish people would use their imagination a bit more. "Hey, Giallo HNW! I can do that! I think I'll do it just like those other dudes!"
that list just confirms what i told you, in fact almost ALL those ARE richard's own projects or his friends'
(i guess only Fukte isn't 'richard related', he's a friend of mine and probably just one or two of his releases have the giallo theme anyway)
check out richard's projects list on discogs
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Richard+Ramirez
anyway, EVERYBODY on the scene knows that almost only richard and his close friends are still using the giallo theme
please don't confuse his own obsession and tastes with the whole scene, that's plain false
According to the discogs list, Richard's involved in four of those, so not exactly "almost all", but whatever, and afaik f.e. House with laughing windows is Mac of Koufar & some dude (he does have a project w/Richard though...Solange Tutunji, if memory serves.)
But I'll stop now. :)
that: and his close friends is what your missing... besides fukte and h.w.l.w. how many other projects have releases on deadline/dead audio tapes/ or h series...
ALL OF THEM.for extra credit follow the members to their other projects...
most of them have a member who at one time or another has collaborated with Richard. a good chunk of these groups have people who live in houston or the surrounding area.
Quote from: tisbor on November 03, 2010, 08:47:24 PM
essentials :
the rita - thousands of dead gods
vomir - proanomie
this is a good start, but would also like to add total slitting... as mentioned earlier.
and werewolf jerusalem is a little harder because most of it is super limited.
but how about masked spider of the first or tension...
if you find yourself unsatisfied after that, then you need to dig a little more.
and the last post for now...
as this one deals more with theory/practice.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 21, 2010, 08:00:57 PM
Majority of recordings of wall of noise which I hear, is indeed something close to line-in recordings. Focusing on rumbles / crackles / hiss / fuzz in ways that its pretty much the "super close-up" of the sound. More of hearing the sound of pedal rather than sound of amps in room for example. Listening the details of crackles and distortion fuzz, rather than loud amplifier damage.
i don't see a real difference between the sound of a pedal and amplifier damage. Both are distorted clipping sounds, but never mind that, look at it this way.
when you record at home is it the same EXACT process you do to play live?
or do you pull out a few extra bells and whistles for the recording?
live HNW is more about "amplifier damage", recording is for bringing out greater detail that you could never hear in a live setting.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on October 22, 2010, 01:09:09 AM
Get "Total Slitting Of Throats" then forget about the genre as a whole. You'll have the whole "militant harsh noise wall" thing right there in one handy album.
As for projects that actually identify as HNW, The Rita, The Cherry Point, maybe the odd bit of Vomir, and that's it.
As for the rest, don't even piss on them. It has become too fucking easy for people to toss off "HNW". Find a tone you like, record it for an hour, stick it on a tape, there's your release. I've noticed nearly every second Noise release these days is classified as "HNW" and it's shitting me. It's too easy to do, that's why there's so much of it. There is PLENTY of Noise that is so built up and layered it could be passed off as "HNW" and that's usually the more interesting material.
But my advice is, anything labelled as HNW these days is best ignored. The world does not need another fucking box set of variations on a bit of static crackle.
What we need is a discussion on minimalism. That would cover a lot more ground.
replace HNW with power electronics
replace The Rita with Whitehouse
replace Cherry Point with Sutcliffe Jugend...
and you can do that with just about any genre.
bottom line is it's either a sound you like or you don't.
HNW has a lot to do with minimalism, i don't think most of the HNW guys would argue that.
i personally think it also has a lot to do with exploring audio texture as well.
is it easy to make, yeah, i guess it could be.
but there's really no money in HNW, anyone doing it (and making multiple releases over several years) is doing it simply because they want to.
Quote from: RG on October 22, 2010, 06:00:24 AM
The whole concept-driven thing is kind of funny to me...this release is about creepy urban landscapes at night = 30 minutes of crunching static. Or this release is about rape and dominance = 30 minutes of crunching static. Or this release is about mass graves and genocide = 30 minutes of crunching static.
well i'm not gonna speak for anyone else, but the subject matter i may use for a release is usually what inspired me to make the wall in the first place.
it's usually WHY i created the static in the first place.
Quote from: RG on October 22, 2010, 06:00:24 AM
Quote from: ADR on October 21, 2010, 07:59:46 PM
GRIZ+ZLOR is a project that should be known. Track on the ADR comp
yes that track is very nice. is all their material in the same vein?
not all my stuff is EXACTLY like that, but it all focuses mostly on different textures.
feel free to poke around: http://caveofthegrizzlor.bandcamp.com/
Quote from: Zeno Marx on October 22, 2010, 02:29:05 AMI've barely touched the neo-wall noise surface, and just one example of someone who continues to slip undrer the radar, with as horrible as the moniker is, Heamorraging Fetus is truly impressive noise.
Got my copy of the "Procreation: A Disease/Tangled Desires" lp just today. On first listen, yes, certainly nothing to complain about. Well recorded, heavy, harsh, the whole bit. The only thing is to me it sounds to me pretty much like almost standard-issue Harsh Noise; pretty good standard-issue Harsh Noise, and certainly without a lot of jaggedness and and high-end that some projects will include, but basically it's Harsh Noise and I can't really understand why it would be placed in a category that's meant to be distinct from the rest of Harsh Noise in general. There's nothing about it that makes me think, "oh, right, Wall Noise".
Essentials (all with many copies/available):
Vomir - Proanomie
Werewolf Jerusalem - Music for Mass Radio (newly reprinted)
V/A - Harsh Purification 4CDR box set
Hum and Hiss Net Label
I make HNW too (as well as noise, HN, industrial stuff, some vocalless pe. It depends on the record/time period. Let's just say noise, okay) and for me, it's really not a case of "switch on, let effects do the work". Last HNW/Wall Noise record I've been working on had at least seven different versions of the album-length track. The parallel with minimalism is interesting too. Whilst my WN can be quite active at times, I love HNW because of the small shifts in texture. I saw Vomir live last week and I was blown away by his set. (also, off-topic, my ears still haven't totally recovered)
Btw, the idea of P.E. screaming on Proanomie. Just. Wrong. Mainly because as records go, that's pretty fucking perfect. Been trying to get my hands on the special edition cd+cdr for a while now with no such luck.
Dead Body Collection
Vargrwulf
Skönhet and related projects
Fouke
Cannibal Ritual and related projects
Foul and related projects
Unearthed
Alo Girl
Gomeisa
Forced Orgasm
Ritual Stance
Namazu Dantai
Placenta Lyposuction
Gigant
are all essentials in my book. there are alot of others, but these are just off the top of my head :p
since most hnw stuff goes pretty quickly it just makes sense to follow artists rather than seek out a particular release. Some good ones if you can get ahold of em are the Vomir/Ecoute La Merde split on narcolepsia, Dead Body Collection 'dental butchery', In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni HNW Box, Last Rape box on HFFL, Concrete Threat box on HFFL, Fouke 'batatut', anything by Gomeisa.....
i find quite difficult to talk about 'essentials' (as there are tons of releases out there, very limited, which makes it quite difficult to point some out of the bunch)
lists i usually see around are more about personal favorites, which is good but everyone obviously has his/her owns
talking about which are considered classics, you can easily go for the founding fathers
(all easily available)
the rita, bodies bear traces of carnal violence / thousands of dead gods
total slitting of throats
werewolf jerusalem, the flies of our tragic dear
vomir, proanomie, of course
and probably even sewer election + trerikroset, the killing sessions
anyway personally i find HNW to be very tied to personal tastes (probably more than other genres), so you may better do some research, listen to some samples and find artist whose sound/approach you really like
boxes may be a good and convenient starting point too, like the In Girum Imus Nocte Et Consumimur Igni on Zvukovina which has 7 CDrs (!!), the data DVDr on Stasis, or Brick By Brick on Small Doses, there probably are others similar that just don't come to mind right now