Tired about Paypal i'm looking for one alternative to replace it.
Someone know Skrill?
What is wrong with PayPal?
op was fucked by paypal (see ripoff thread). as always paypal sided w buyer over seller without need of much if any proof.
on topic, i know of no alternative that is so widely used.
Bank transfer, at least for europeans. Much better rates and no fees for anyone. Paypal rates are hilarious, plus their fees.
Does registered shipping make any difference at Paypal policy in benefit of the seller ? I mean buyer cant claim i never recieved it. Is Paypal so in favour of buyers regarding "damage" ? I guess buyer should provide photos of the damage at least ...
(This in regards to Germany, not sure if there's differences across countries)
If the buyer claims to not have received the package, seller must prove to Paypal that it's been sent. Without registered shipping this is impossible and Paypal will refund buyer at seller's expense. As an official seller it's advisable to ship registered to buyers who aren't trustworthy. As private seller it doesn't matter since Paypal for friends payments can't be claimed back anyways, so buyer should specifically request registered shipping in case private seller isn't trustworthy.
Damage to package is shipping company responsibility. As there's good chance that items inside are damaged too, buyer should not accept the damaged package without filing a claim with the delivery service before signing it and then work with the seller to clarify responsibilites. In my experience this is just bad luck and rarely happens. If a package is severely damaged and the delivery guy refuses to record the incident, I as buyer would not accept the package and have it sent back.
Damage to items without visible outside damage on packaging is always seller responsibility as they have to ensure all items are protected from rough handling by delivery service. However, it is very hard to prove for the buyer that items were indeed damaged due to poor packaging. I've had buyers deliberately damage items after receiving them just to try to get refunded (very few cases and no people I work with regularly). At least in Germany, this does not work since Paypal is not a law court institution who could decide those matters based on hearsay. So what they do sometimes - because they're making shittons of money from fees anyways - is to refund both buyer and seller to make them "happy" and keep them hooked to Paypal as it's so "easy to use".
So yeah, I agree, Paypal mostly decides in benefit of the buyer which is not surprising as they are paying the fees. If you as seller read a bit about local consumer laws, you will have a better stance with outrageous refund disputes. Paypal is not above the law. I hate it, and I always encourage EU buyers to use bank transfer if feasible as it's almost just as quick if you use online banking. Most buyers want it the "easy" Paypal way despite the fees, but I'm not convinced that companies who want you to get rid of your money more and more easily and quickly have your best interests in mind.
I guess it would make a difference, if the seller stated that he is not responsible for lost packages on his Discogs or webpage. From a legal perspective, it would make that part of the "business contract". Not sure if that would make PayPal more seller-friendly, though.
Regarding alternatives, the situation is kind of bleak. Many German BM distros have recently been banned from Paypal due to political content and none seem to have found good alternative means of fast and international transaction.
That's interesting, I was not aware of those bans.
But yeah, stating something in terms of conditions doesn't make it legal. As an official seller you're always responsible for loss or damage by law and you pass on that responsibility to the delivery company by using registered shipping.
Over here customers even have 14 days cancellation right on the purchase contract without need of providing any reason.
Note: The Customs sticker CN22 which is to be attached to packages for content declartion now carries a tracking number as well - at leat on my burg. While a new system in the EU, it is possible to use, but not always updated throughout transit. In any case, it function as a proof of shipment and is a valued extra documentation when shipping orders international. Worth checking out. As a seller one should and need to be able to document shipment - either by tracking or minimum postal reciepts. If non is available package is as good as not sent.
I havent opened an e-bank account but hearing there is no fee for transfers in EU i am quite surprised and i ll ask about it. As a buyer i am tired of Paypal too. They have no competition, there is no alternative, they know it and their fees and rates are a robbery regarding what they really offer, nothing ! A fucking middleman that steal us all. Especially if there is a currency conversion their total share is around 10% of the paid amount. 5% more expensive rate than the current + 5% fee on the seller -it's 5, isnt it ?- .
Quote from: online prowler on December 09, 2018, 06:43:38 PM
Note: The Customs sticker CN22 which is to be attached to packages for content declartion now carries a tracking number as well...
The Customs form number from the U.S. also tracks. I sent a package to Russia a couple of weeks ago & checked the form # on usps.com & it tracked every step of the way from leaving the U.S. to clearing Russian customs. Kinda surprised me as the last package I sent to Russia was Registered & it didn't do shit. Someone at the P.O. told me Reg. doesn't do anything anymore including travel under lock and key. I don't know if that's true but, at least, the Customs form number can be used. I always enter it as tracking in PayPal and Discogs so the customer can't say they didn't receive any notification.
Quote from: bitewerksMTB on December 09, 2018, 08:30:45 PMI always enter it as tracking in PayPal and Discogs so the customer can't say they didn't receive any notification.
I do the same with Discogs. I've basically done all US and especially overseas shipping from PayPal through the paypal.com/shiplabel/create if not directly from orders for a while now. Tracking info is decent from US to Europe with a reasonable amount of detail (held in customs, out for delivery, etc.). I haven't had issues yet, but if there was a dispute, I have the evidence that the buyer-provided address was on the label and the tracking says it was delivered. Not sure if paypal would care anyway if there was a buyer dispute, but that's maybe as good as it could get as far as evidence goes.
Quote from: deutscheasphalt on December 09, 2018, 11:39:33 AM
If you as seller read a bit about local consumer laws, you will have a better stance with outrageous refund disputes. Paypal is not above the law.
Most jurisdictions go by the same legal principles (in theory) and the prevailing principle in contracts law is usually the freedom to negotiate the terms in the way you choose. The interplay between this principle and consumer law is usually just in the favor of the consumer. Paypal should therefore be able to make "outrageous terms" which the seller would be bound by, no matter how much he'd quote local consumer laws.
Quote from: Theodore on December 09, 2018, 06:58:54 PM
I havent opened an e-bank account but hearing there is no fee for transfers in EU i am quite surprised and i ll ask about it. As a buyer i am tired of Paypal too. They have no competition, there is no alternative, they know it and their fees and rates are a robbery regarding what they really offer, nothing ! A fucking middleman that steal us all. Especially if there is a currency conversion their total share is around 10% of the paid amount. 5% more expensive rate than the current + 5% fee on the seller -it's 5, isnt it ?- .
At this point I think they charge what the fuck they want. As a seller they charge me 7% most of the times, sometimes more!
Go figure their math.
Quote from: Theodore on December 09, 2018, 06:58:54 PM
I havent opened an e-bank account but hearing there is no fee for transfers in EU i am quite surprised and i ll ask about it. As a buyer i am tired of Paypal too. They have no competition, there is no alternative, they know it and their fees and rates are a robbery regarding what they really offer, nothing ! A fucking middleman that steal us all. Especially if there is a currency conversion their total share is around 10% of the paid amount. 5% more expensive rate than the current + 5% fee on the seller -it's 5, isnt it ?- .
Activated my e-banking yesterday. Today found out the harsh truth. Too good to be true. Tried to send 960 SEK. Below i copy-paste part of my email to other guy about my bank :
QuoteThe case is my bank and i guess every greek bank are thieves as well, bigger than Paypal. I chose to be charged only with my bank's "expenses" and not of both banks. There wasnt an option to not be charged at all haha. Conclusion : Currency exchange rate is better than Paypal but they charge me a 3 euro fee for that exchange, which makes it completely [!] equal to Paypal ! For larger payments, at least above 100 euro, banks' convertion rates and fee added will be better than Paypal convertion, but not for smaller ones, seems happened i was exactly on that mathematic limit ! On top of that they charge me another 3 euro fee for the transfer. Total 6 euro on fees. I cancelled. Hate to say but Paypal is better than my bank.
So even if seller reduces the price by cutting the Paypal fee, for small orders Paypal comes cheaper, for medium pretty much the same. For hundreds yes, bank should be better, the more the better, although i dont know how their fee for the transfer increases.
Does anyone knows what happens with Paypal Friends and Family option in EU ? Paypal's info is unclear. Here : https://www.paypal.com/gr/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#r017 says there is no fee for the sender, neither for the reciever ofcource. But if you choose the option you see this text : "No fee to use your Paypal Balance to send to friends and family in the EU." , which to me read as if you use your debit card / bank account there is a fee.
Earlier i sent a Friends payment in EU using my bank account, there was no fee. I remember and checked till some months ago there was one if you sent this way. For example i see a Friends payment from October 2018, to the same country as today, which i paid 1,5EUR extra.
I almost never have Paypal Balance. I use Paypal with debit / bank account. Does this way Friends option have no fee now in EU ?
They are a private company, they can do whatever they want. Also, I am a fucking idiot who should be deprived of clothing, food, heat, running water and telephony on account of these things being provided by private companies that can do whatever they want. Just thought I should insert that here, so no one else has to in case the thread takes off in that direction.
In all seriousness, it should be said that PayPal is yet another online product/solution approaching a near-monopoly, getting away with awful behavior simply because there are no decent alternatives.
If in Europe, isn't an IBAN transfer possible?
Quote from: MyrtleLake on April 27, 2019, 11:09:12 PM
If in Europe, isn't an IBAN transfer possible?
Dont know about other countries / banks. For my bank see my posts in this thread.
I suspect that probably an EU regulation forced them to not charge but they misguide users that it is for Paypal Balance only so their company avoid losses of small purchases done as Friends and Family or extra unpaid traffic. Most people dont have Paypal Balance.
I ll figure it out with future transactions tried both ways -boring to do tests now- , thought if anyone has more transfers done this way to shed some light on.
There are numerous alternatives, the problem is nobody uses them as everyone has become conditioned to use paypal.
FUCK PAYPAL! They banned me for life with no explanation why. And in the transaction I've made (to buy or sell) there were no "sieg heils" in the message section. Would gladly find a usable alternative. I tried Western Union to make a payment to Ukraine and it was a smooth transaction but the fees were quite substantial. But on the contrary to what I remember Western Union to be (yeah like in the 90s/beginning 2000) as an option to send money a very complicated procedure with filling forms and shit, this modern WU transfer was actually very easy.
I recommend checking out Transferwise. Only good experience with it.
https://transferwise.com/ (https://transferwise.com/)
Was about to transfer from my card as friends / family. EU to UK. They brought back the fee for the sender. Even before Brexit completes. At least I hope it's only for UK and not for transactions to other EU countries too !
A couple of days ago I did a transfer to Canada with friends/family option and had the same. I think within EU I didn't. I don't really understand why they would charge it outside of EU, but not within EU. Anyway, as buyer it doesn't make sense to buy something using that option anymore then, you're buying the charge anyway and you don't get buyer protection when using the family/friends option...