I was listening Harsh Truths podcast interview with Stefan Aune and he was talking about local scene noise. To put it short, the guys who play shows or fool around with gear, but are not interested nor involved in the nationwide or global "scene". He concluded not to be very interested in such stuff, which I may agree to some degree. It may appear as somewhat elitists, but I certainly felt quite odd to play noise set among local artschool / performance art crowd. Not even mentioned as actual Grunt gig, so perhaps considered more like just solo set, hah... Both organizers and audience is something that was somewhat interested in experimental sound, yet being 100% different crowd who comes to actual noise show. Some of them perhaps could perform too, but there would be no ambition to actually make something worthy to be bough.
How you feel about it? IF local scene exists where you happen to live, do you intentionally seek to be part of it, or keep distance or just "naturally" co-exists when paths may cross occasionally... or not?
Depends if the local scene is worth getting involved with or not. Where I live, let's call it the London area/region for want of a better word, it was cliquey and stuffy so I decided to bypass it and do my own thing. After a while other people turned up and wanted to be involved. And that's the thing, a place can be barren but one person becoming active can set off a whole new scene.
I am pretty sure ROTAT will not ever play on Böndebileet even i want.. Rockabillies and 90`technoheads are pretty hard target to Harsh Noise anyway.
I can only speak from an American perspective on this. I've always thought of local music/art is code for circle jerk, criticism equals lost opportunities, where it's endless back slapping and support (granted we have some great stuff here done by people I honestly respect and admire). In Michigan at the moment there seems to be some HN stuff popping up around the local punk scenes, but because of little or no crossover I don't go to these shows. I don't really wanna hangout at an 18 year olds costume party personally (harsh judgement sure, but I prefer to be at home) especially when I go to hangout and talk noise with fellow fanatics as much as I go for the performance.
I've noticed via Instagram that there seems to be growing art kid noise scenes growing around the country and it seems that these kids are kind of divorced from what interest me in noise as well. So I don't keep up.
In my area (Southern California) the local noise scene seems to center around hippie/artist types. I saw some ads for a big show, but it looked like it was intended to be weird rather than extreme. They even had someone doing palm reading or something during the sets. It doesn't sound like my kind of thing or my kind of people, but I would still be interested in going to a few shows if I am able.
In my town there is nothing.
I m not sure, but I'm probably the only one that plays harsh noise.
I only played once in a little festival in my hometown with other musicians and they were pretty shocked.
There is a couple of places for "arty experimental music", but the only time i went to one of this "event" I was disappointed (obviously) and i prefer to don't have nothing to do with them.
In my town in the Midlands,UK there is Rammel club (promoters) where they do experimental, noise and PE stuff regularly. Sometimes it's just ok, now again something amazing can happen where you're hooked afterwards. Sometimes stuff like Pharmakon, Whitehouse, Ramleh, Prurient has happened years back via other promoters. Birmingham has more frequent events, but the drive there is tough at night, but the events there do tend to be gritier so are rewarding. Tend to go to London for good new stuff too once or twice a year.
The mentality here is older more popular names draw bigger crowds and small venues will suddenly be ram packed.
Quote from: Lazrs3 on October 06, 2019, 12:33:09 PM
In my town in the Midlands,UK there is Rammel club (promoters) where they do experimental, noise and PE stuff regularly. Sometimes it's just ok, now again something amazing can happen where you're hooked afterwards. Sometimes stuff like Pharmakon, Whitehouse, Ramleh, Prurient has happened years back via other promoters. Birmingham has more frequent events, but the drive there is tough at night, but the events there do tend to be gritier so are rewarding. Tend to go to London for good new stuff too once or twice a year.
The mentality here is older more popular names draw bigger crowds and small venues will suddenly be ram packed.
Contrast with Derby, where I am, just 15miles away and I can count on two fingers how many people I know that are "into" this stuff. Me being one.
I'll be honest, I don't go out looking for comrades as I'm happy to enjoy in isolation for the most part and I'm really not a social going-out kind of person anymore - maybe there are people out there locally that would surprise me, but to my knowledge there's no gigs or outlets going on where I could turn up and find out. This isn't a new phenomenon, Derby has been like this for a long, long time.
Incidentally, I met you once at a Rammel show at the Chameleon (CE, Cremation Lily and Sleaford Mods I think?).
Quote from: martialgodmask on October 06, 2019, 02:22:30 PM
Incidentally, I met you once at a Rammel show at the Chameleon (CE, Cremation Lily and Sleaford Mods I think?).
I kind of love Derby, even though our football teams are rivals, ha ha. I did go to that gig, I never miss Cremation Lily as I love that project and have seen CL in Notts four times. .
Buffalo, New York
small scene here, 3 mainstay projects and a couple from about an hour away. lately we've been having at least one show a month with somewhat decent turnouts.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 05, 2019, 12:54:05 PM
How you feel about it? IF local scene exists where you happen to live, do you intentionally seek to be part of it, or keep distance or just "naturally" co-exists when paths may cross occasionally... or not?
I would like to help propogate the Oxford experimental scene.
There are a couple of promoters / artists who would put on experimental artists as part of their repertoire of gigs but nothing solely focused on it or regular in terms of events.
Have considered networking with existing people in the area to try and put something on of my own, but time and energy have so far limited this.
Ref:- Rammel Club.
Looks fairly unique for the area, have been impressed with some of the lineups at the venue over the years and have often considered visiting. Venues like this should be cherished and looked after.
Perhaps to clarify, I think people in your area that are making "weird" music should be encouraged, invited to shows, and included in what's going on... I'm certainly not advocating isolation or holding oneself aloof from anything that isn't harsh noise / PE. I think a variety of "experimental" music is great, and I'd rather have that variety - a nice avant-garde percussionist one week, slamming heavy electronics the next, a bill with a mix of drone and harsh noise after that...
I was more-so speaking about the people that show up to tinker with their gear if they get put on a show, and otherwise show no interest in touring artists, or even noise music in general. I think it's really valuable to try and build up a local experimental music community, but if people show no interest in that beyond their own tinkering (they're not interested in touring acts, they're not interested in good music that is coming out of the genre, they aren't listening to the classics) then I'm less interested in what they're doing. And it usually shows in their musical output - these are the projects that tend to stagnate in mediocrity, opening for a touring artist they've never heard of 4 times a year with the same boring performance.
Basically I'm not advocating isolation or elitism, I just think people should be encouraged to be excellent. Good noise artists in the same area tend to mutually reinforce each-other's output, you see that over and over again.
Perhaps I also assumed that people use to local scene bands with same between-the-lines meaning. I'm pretty sure that most people know the music bands, who play locally and their friends or bar regulars go to see it. Very few would buy their stuff or travel to see them. Most often guys are not into networking. Not into knowing what others do, not interested in records nor artists beyond being sort of replica of some relevant band. There is very specific social function for band, barely artistic ambition.
Quite similarly, when you look the difference of artists that make comic books.... Local comics scene & workshop scene is quite different compared to things you buy out of being interested in it, and the other thing you may buy out of "support", hah... Only occasionally it may happen to be local artist.
This leads to notion that some people have had that it is foolish to support local for sake of being local. Unless it is really good. Creating this local bubble where everybody and their friends celebrate their own mediocrity while listening couple releases from elsewhere would probably set things in perspective...
Ideally, it would be great that there would be flourishing local art, and some places do. Yet I do assume that there is a reason why ultimately best things exists in worldwide form, that often enjoy little or no local interest, but people around the world are willing to buy to hear & travel to see.
Personally I'm not interested in mixing genres for my events. Other styles have plenty of places they are welcomed at while us industrial scum don't get many other opportunities. I aim for a total experience when I put my events on and I don't want to dilute things.
Supporting local and in general UK industrial/PE is a given of course. The two standard criteria apply though. Be serious about what you do and no fucking cunts.
Quote from: New Forces on October 07, 2019, 06:31:13 PM
I was more-so speaking about the people that show up to tinker with their gear if they get put on a show, and otherwise show no interest in touring artists, or even noise music in general. I think it's really valuable to try and build up a local experimental music community, but if people show no interest in that beyond their own tinkering (they're not interested in touring acts, they're not interested in good music that is coming out of the genre, they aren't listening to the classics) then I'm less interested in what they're doing. And it usually shows in their musical output - these are the projects that tend to stagnate in mediocrity, opening for a touring artist they've never heard of 4 times a year with the same boring performance.
This is what I was thinking as well. I have witnessed many times a random local (middle of the line up for a show often) come late, play a forgettable set, then leave immediately after playing. Not caring is fine and all, but why even bother doing that. It's just a big waste of time.
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on October 07, 2019, 07:44:29 PM
Be serious about what you do and no fucking cunts.
This is probably the only ethos that should matter in this or any other art.
I did the rounds of playing at least once a month, whether it be diverse line-ups or strictly noise/experimental, and I'll say that the times are just different for live acts/music in general. Without the internet, people used to go see the same band every month, and now they have access to too many options to do that, especially in a larger urban environment. So for me, I am careful not to keep treading the same water, and I'm much more motivated to leave the country the next time I tour (where people still buy CDs, apparently!).
Having toured parts of the USA a few times, I'll say that the paradox of wanting to play with people you know VS. playing with people you don't know who will leave after their set and ask for more money than they deserve, it is very real. Some cities do this more than others, and the more solidarity, the better, but it's hard not to have it become "cliques", and I'm thankful to those who have welcomed me in the past even more for this reason.
The idea to build a local scene is not just to look after the locals, it's to provide fertile ground for acts from all over the world to come and play. It's about the ability to realise an interaction with others. A scene like the ones described by NPOI will never be strong nor prosperous and it deserves to languish and die.
When I lived in Boston I was throwing most of the free time I had into the local scene - which for the various forms of experimental/noise/avant garde was very large - but me and only a few others were the ones open to more edgy pe/industrial/harsh noise. I was doing about 2 shows a month for 5-7 years playing at least every other month myself. It eventually started to pay off in that the shows were still "hit or miss" but the "hits" became more frequent. But by "hits" I mean shows that were an awesome experience. I rarely made any money on shows and if I did it was paltry, of course this didn't matter but when the efforts were getting to be so time and energy consuming and at the end of a big fest with Brighter Death Now, Post Scriptvm, Bolcksholm, Raison D'Etre + more I merely broke even I decided I'd rather get back to using my spare time to make music - what I originally got into this scene for - rather than help enable others so much.
After I left Boston I noticed a real void in the scene for 2-3 years. No one seemed to be booking much in the pe/industrial/harsh noise vein at all. I think since I've left some have begun booking shows here and there but I'm not sure it's back to being the touring stalwart that it was when I was going full tilt.
So when I moved to Seattle in 2015 I was happy to not have any contacts in the scene and to pass touring artists to others who were doing shows. I've now been here for 4 years and I've played and attended enough shows to know the right people, be recognized, booked when I want to be but I prefer to be more of a distant observer rather than involved all the time. Live my own life and be a part of the scene when it's convenient and advantageous for myself and my project.
Seeing certain artists play multiple times a week whatever wanky set they put together that afternoon or even those local artists trying to get on every "hot minute" touring artist shows seems like wasted effort to me. The time they are wasting being part of drama and preparing new live sets constantly should instead be used to craft new recorded material, or at least that's where I'm at now. I find it's best to play locally no more than once each season at the most and pick shows wisely. I turn down more shows than I play these days and it's a great thing.
That said I still think touring is the most effective way to get known. Making those physical in real life connections are a way bigger deal for spreading your sounds and the experience of a great live show... there's nothing like it!
I tried to involve myself with the local scene here which is absolutely non-existent. Did a live harsh noise collab with some guy in a Man Is The Bastard influenced band (yeah I know, destined to fail, right?). Then he's going to play some donations event for Planned Parenthood (lol), and out of boredom I say "do you want me to do noise over your set?" and at first he's like "yeah, sure", then within the hour he messages me back saying:
"It's come to my attention some things that you've said, and our band believes in equality for women and all races. I already knew of your views, but I let it slide, but when we performed I felt like a hypocrite. We can no longer collaborate, but we can share noise in messages here still".
LOL, so I asked him "what are my views that you speak of? what gives you the right to decide my views for me?" and he can't respond, just says that he doesn't want to talk about it, and doesn't need more stress in his life. Then I totally ripped him a new ass, and told him to sell his noise equipment. The only "noise" he knew of was some random somewhat obscure early electronic music. After that I completely became uninterested in anything but mocking the local "scene" openly in the public forum.
Where I'm from originally is far more interesting. 763/612 represent. There is some of that weird artsy kid crossover there, but also some gross mother fuckers that make that nasty ass shit.
Euros or Japs as a rule are way more interesting to observe than most of the scene kids in the USA.
Quote from: xdementia on October 24, 2019, 09:56:33 AM
That said I still think touring is the most effective way to get known. Making those physical in real life connections are a way bigger deal for spreading your sounds and the experience of a great live show... there's nothing like it!
I don't think this can be overstated.
Quote from: Stipsi on October 06, 2019, 02:03:49 AMIn my town there is nothing.
I m not sure, but I'm probably the only one that plays harsh noise.
I only played once in a little festival in my hometown with other musicians and they were pretty shocked.
There is a couple of places for "arty experimental music", but the only time i went to one of this "event" I was disappointed (obviously) and i prefer to don't have nothing to do with them.
I'm also from a small town outside of a metropolitan by a good amount of distance. I'm not very far from the metro, but a long enough distance evidently where "noise" is not a thing! I've tried to connect with local other artists too, whom are different in approach completely/musically and often get the same reaction as you did, where it's like WTF!? luckily I've got one guy locally who understands it all, but for the most part it's like WTF is this?! I think it's best to just stay away from all local scene when there isn't much of one to begin with. It's definitely harder when you're not right inside of a city.
Honestly, I would be surprised if there was a noise scene in Nevada. Then again, I'm a bit out of the loop as I've only went to a handful of shows in the last couple of years and those were mostly punk and metal. Before that I hadn't gone to any shows for at least 10 years, so in that way I guess you could say I kept a distance from any local scenes and at the shows I generally tend to keep to myself.
Things do start from something, and I could give quite nice example. Some years ago, there was guy who had been visiting my store occasionally. Always looking for old vintage recordings, blues, jazz,.. things I usually do not have, but occasionally 2nd hand LP's may come. He had been only buying man & guitar type recordings, and had no history in "metal" or "punk" or such. One day I am listening DIESEL GUITAR CD and he goes "what is THIS?!". Never heard, or knew there is things such as "guitar drone". He buys DG stuff, returns in few days and asks is there something else that sounds like that. I sell him Haare. He likes it a lot. After some drone releases, he quickly progresses into total harsh noise. It was matter of months, without prior relation to the "typical underground scenes". He became one of the most active harsh noise buyers locally, and remains so still today.
I never thought "No scene" would be valid excuse to not make something. Someone got to start it, and in truest form of DIY, one can't expect it is "the others" who'll have to do it. Getting noise act to play among noisy hard metal or wild hardcore punk can be easiest way to get things started. Some will hate, but you never know if it will be the birth of something new.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 05, 2024, 09:44:30 AMyou never know if it will be the birth of something new
Nothing to add.