Currently I'm using Reaper to chop and edit lots of audio for a cut up/sound collage type thing, but it's quite cumbersome, so I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on any plugins or other software that offers up quick, simple and efficient methods for cutting up and sequencing lots of audio? I'm sure I could manage with Reaper but it's a slow process. A quick Google took me to LiveSplice if anyone has any thoughts on that?
NI Kontakt, Image Line Slisex
I'm curious what your biggest problems have been specifically. I've been using Reaper exclusively for the last several months. I do quite a bit of chopping and editing in whatever I work on, plus a decent amount of MIDI stuff. Previously, I would use either Sony Acid or ModPlug Tracker, but Reaper blows both of those away.
My biggest gripe by far is that handling edges of clips is a lot harder than it should be. When you have two adjacent clips, you might want to do something simple like crossfade them into one another, or change the fade. However, depending on your cursor position, it can be ready to edit in one of four modes, like adjusting the fade, resizing one media item, resizing both media items, etc. It depends on pixel-perfect precision to enter the right mode sometimes.
Volume control had the same issue for me. Luckily, I came across this tip that lets you adjust volume with the mouse wheel (https://www.stephenschappler.com/2017/05/30/quick-reaper-tip-adjust-item-volume-or-pitch-with-mousewheel/)
I'm also not completely used to how the mouse wheel affects the interface. A lot of the time, I expect it to scroll, even if I'm not hovering the left track list, but it just zooms the tracks. I figure I'll get over this learning curve eventually.
I like the way Regions work. I tend to create a lot of loops mostly from working with ModPlug for so long where you work in patterns. Acid didn't have anything to easily copy a chunk of time across multiple tracks. Reaper does, though. Just highlight the section on the timeline and hit Shift+R, and boom, new region. You can then hold control and drag it to copy it somewhere else.
If grid locking is getting in the way, I hold shift and drag the clips around to get them in the exact right place. If there's a small spot that I can fill in, I can usually drag an item chopped down to that spot's size into it, then hold Alt and drag around to find a position within that recording that fits into it well.
Grouping tracks together has also been excellent. In Acid, you'd need to set up a bus for every group, then route your channels through that bus if you wanted to control them all. In Reaper, you can just drag tracks around and organize them within others, which acts the same as a bus, but you can operate on them as if they were a single track.
Maybe it's just the way I'm working (plus I'm still fairly new to Reaper) but I'm just finding the zooming and cutting and arranging can be a slog at times.
Hopefully not being captain obvious about it but are you learning and using shortcuts and key commands? for example, 's' will put a cut in the track where your marker is. Also, gluing your cuts together when you've got them arranged will help you move/cut again.
There are some plugins and apps that will just cut a track up for you but I can't remember the names. I'm sure some will be detailed on here if you have a search.
Quote from: sadneck on December 23, 2019, 03:45:03 PM
Maybe it's just the way I'm working (plus I'm still fairly new to Reaper) but I'm just finding the zooming and cutting and arranging can be a slog at times.
Give it time. Like Duncan said, see if you can figure out shortcuts. There is a lot of information out there about how to use Reaper in various capacities, from really basic things to advanced stuff. Most of the time when I'd search for "how do I do X in reaper" there would be at least a video and some forum posts on how to do it
(http://www.n01ze.com/synthwizards/ARKIVE/SynthWizardsNekromancer.png)
Eye made multiple methods/Tools for doing random "cutups" of wav files... aka "Shortcuts"
"Kaos" method exploiting virtual random voltage cv manipulating file read positions...
(this was discovery whilst creating Nekrofile)
also recently have been obsessed with using this random method for sequential switching of 8 wav files...
with the Kaos random read position method triggering on each file with switching...
for using with my methdos of creating quasi randomized gates kompositions...
this saves me massive amounts of editing time anymore...
have habit of making long source with variance...
yet pretty much anything will function in my system for making Instant Concrete Musique...
this is an evolution of spending ages with razorblades, magnetic tape, scotch tape, & cutting block...
btw it's total nightmare doing elaborate cutups on cassette tapes... yet it can be done...
(http://www.hss.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Bulk-Concrete-Mixer-HSS-Hire.jpg)
Thanks Duncan and Pigswill, looking up short cuts to use have been very helpful.
Quote from: sadneck on January 06, 2020, 10:34:41 AM
Thanks Duncan and Pigswill, looking up short cuts to use have been very helpful.
Find any interesting discoveries either in the shortcuts or in the sounds you've made lately?
Quote from: Pigswill on January 07, 2020, 04:15:59 AM
Quote from: sadneck on January 06, 2020, 10:34:41 AM
Thanks Duncan and Pigswill, looking up short cuts to use have been very helpful.
Find any interesting discoveries either in the shortcuts or in the sounds you've made lately?
Just the basics really (create new track, split, glue etc) but it's made my process much quicker. All stuff I should have looked up when I began using Reaper probably. Glad to have had the obvious pointed out to me though.
8-track cartridge recorders are great for tape cutups :)
Quote from: Cementimental on January 07, 2020, 07:35:52 PM
8-track cartridge recorders are great for tape cutups :)
8 track cartridges can drive people insane trying to rewind that looping spool by hand for any real length...
if you fail it can always be rewound on 1/4" Reel to Reel spool
here are some guides by obviously super stoned humans that can do it:
https://sites.google.com/site/8trackrepair/tape-off-reel (https://sites.google.com/site/8trackrepair/tape-off-reel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnewY2xrcxg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnewY2xrcxg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUtilrU4k7g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUtilrU4k7g)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aglz6vEPtqY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aglz6vEPtqY)
Gluck!
my technique is to just unspool and cut off most of the reel, leaving a perfect short-ish loop... couple of minutes or so is fun for throwing noise on there and having it come crawling back some time later as opposed to any short obviously repetitive loop, ,....tho can do that too of course. Might make a really really short one soon actually for a change. got given a few junk cartridges to mess with recently by someone who bought 100s of them
can be a bit fiddly but nowhere near as hard as making compact cassette loops :D
the foam pads usually need replacing, i've used adhesive door seal strips in the past or just any random bit of sponge cut to size. The higher quality cartridges sometimes have a metal pressure plate with felt on it, much better as they don't turn to goo and you can just bend back into shape if it's too loose
i dont know if 8track ever really made it round here.... i saw it only in 90's radio stations, if that even was the same, but there were these front-loading things for jingles.. but that would be cool for all kinds of tape abuse!
Quote from: Cementimental on January 07, 2020, 07:35:52 PM
obviously super stoned humans that can do it:
heheh
i'm still waiting for a magic device or procedure that will create instant brilliance... combining sounds, and therefore composing (like the term or not) is inherently time consuming, trial +error +more error
I've some windows VB programs for randomly chopping up sound files here...
also for turning other files into WAVs etc.
http://www.jliat.com/download/index.html
which might be of interest?
Quote from: JLIAT on May 25, 2020, 03:34:05 PM
I've some windows VB programs for randomly chopping up sound files here...
also for turning other files into WAVs etc.
http://www.jliat.com/download/index.html
which might be of interest?
Been experimenting with your programs for quite some time, thank you for them :)
Your cut-up program is very good.
A fun technique I've used a few times is to make cuts of whatever audio I'm working with, render them as new files, load into itunes (or whatever you use) then create a playlist of the new set to shuffle/repeat mode. Easy to re-route that into a DAW or into a tape player, all the better if you do so while flexing that pause button muscle.
Might not create fast, easy, fluid results at the click of a button but it's certainly a reasonable way to take the process out of your hands a bit and give you new building blocks to work with.
Quote from: Acne on May 25, 2020, 08:15:15 PM
Quote from: JLIAT on May 25, 2020, 03:34:05 PM
I've some windows VB programs for randomly chopping up sound files here...
also for turning other files into WAVs etc.
http://www.jliat.com/download/index.html
which might be of interest?
Been experimenting with your programs for quite some time, thank you for them :)
Your cut-up program is very good.
Glad you find it useful. Re cutups, you may know this but you can copy MP3 files and the result is playable,
e.g. at the command prompt -
Copy /b *.mp3 big.mp3
/b = binary. All the mp3s will be copied into 1 big mp3 which is playable.
Another source of "cut ups" is the swap / page file. " C:\pagefile.sys by default, but you won't see it unless you tell Windows Explorer not to hide protected operating system files."
If you copy this and then import the copy as raw data into a sound editor, audacity, goldwave etc, it contains all kinds of bits of programs and files you've been using, even sound files... obviously you can do this for other files also, but always use a copy, if you copy an app then modify the sound and save, it will most likely not run.
I've been achieving some interesting results with Karlheinz Essl's 'REplay PLAYer' (http://www.essl.at/works/replay.html (http://www.essl.at/works/replay.html)). It performs cut-ups and resequencing in performance in real-time, though, so may not necessarily be what everybody is after in a 'cut-up machine'.. But it's worth a look either way. Will update this post with links to a release on which I've used this (as and when I release something on which I've used this).
What I've ended up doing (for the most part anyway) is playing back large audio files and skipping through them 'live' and recording it whilst I do it, if that makes any sense. I prefer the cut ups to be more random and on the fly and going with the feel of what happens, than meticulously thought out and rather obvious.
I have had some good results in cutting up and intermixing various live and recorded sources via the use of keyed gates. For instance using something like a DOD FX 30b (Gate/Loop) you can "unlock" one signal with another signal - so like a recording of your voice could be "transformed" into weirdly choppy synth lines - sort of using it as a control source. Or your scraping of a contact mic can "activate" another sound source in cut up ways etc. I'm using mostly rack gates for this kind of stuff these days.
Quote from: Potier on May 28, 2020, 11:34:03 PM
I have had some good results in cutting up and intermixing various live and recorded sources via the use of keyed gates. For instance using something like a DOD FX 30b (Gate/Loop) you can "unlock" one signal with another signal - so like a recording of your voice could be "transformed" into weirdly choppy synth lines - sort of using it as a control source. Or your scraping of a contact mic can "activate" another sound source in cut up ways etc. I'm using mostly rack gates for this kind of stuff these days.
tried to work this way with the fx30b and couldn't quite get it right, probably worth a revisit! Can you link any of your tracks that you think utilize this technique?
Quote from: Acne on May 29, 2020, 04:52:57 PM
Quote from: Potier on May 28, 2020, 11:34:03 PM
I have had some good results in cutting up and intermixing various live and recorded sources via the use of keyed gates. For instance using something like a DOD FX 30b (Gate/Loop) you can "unlock" one signal with another signal - so like a recording of your voice could be "transformed" into weirdly choppy synth lines - sort of using it as a control source. Or your scraping of a contact mic can "activate" another sound source in cut up ways etc. I'm using mostly rack gates for this kind of stuff these days.
tried to work this way with the fx30b and couldn't quite get it right, probably worth a revisit! Can you link any of your tracks that you think utilize this technique?
Just to note that this describes a hardware version of a side chain gate process which is really simple to set up in, I assume, most DAWs with noise gate plugins. Use this technique often and have done so live a few times too.
Quote from: Duncan on May 29, 2020, 05:29:20 PM
Quote from: Acne on May 29, 2020, 04:52:57 PM
Quote from: Potier on May 28, 2020, 11:34:03 PM
I have had some good results in cutting up and intermixing various live and recorded sources via the use of keyed gates. For instance using something like a DOD FX 30b (Gate/Loop) you can "unlock" one signal with another signal - so like a recording of your voice could be "transformed" into weirdly choppy synth lines - sort of using it as a control source. Or your scraping of a contact mic can "activate" another sound source in cut up ways etc. I'm using mostly rack gates for this kind of stuff these days.
tried to work this way with the fx30b and couldn't quite get it right, probably worth a revisit! Can you link any of your tracks that you think utilize this technique?
Just to note that this describes a hardware version of a side chain gate process which is really simple to set up in, I assume, most DAWs with noise gate plugins. Use this technique often and have done so live a few times too.
The DOD FX 30b is a bit tricky to work for sure. I feel that the sensitivity and release knobs tend to be different on different versions/build years. Also depends on how beat up the pedal is. Here is the manual again in case it's needed - there's an explanation of the keyed gate process in there:
http://files.effectsdatabase.com/docs/manuals/dod_fx30b.pdf
I have only played around with "voice activation" or "contact mic activation" without recording any of it. I have however used it among other things on the Undercut tape released last year by Absurd Exposition. Will be difficult to identify since it's essentially wacky feedback stretches "unlocking" other feedback layers. Keep in mind that the Gate/Loop pedal is rather limited when it comes to that function - you'll have more options and efficiency with a rack gate or as mentioned in a DAW with side chain gates.
This also makes me realise we've not really discussed noise gates as a standalone utility to any extent here. Run a fairly busy piece of audio through a hard gate, experimenting with low attack and release settings and you'll achieve some pleasing choppy results. As with any of these techniques it's something to think about as an additional component rather than a one stop shop but it's something I've used a lot and still keep finding new ways to work with. Again, Reaper has some really good options.
Quote from: Duncan on May 29, 2020, 06:38:11 PM
This also makes me realise we've not really discussed noise gates as a standalone utility to any extent here. Run a fairly busy piece of audio through a hard gate, experimenting with low attack and release settings and you'll achieve some pleasing choppy results. As with any of these techniques it's something to think about as an additional component rather than a one stop shop but it's something I've used a lot and still keep finding new ways to work with. Again, Reaper has some really good options.
Considering the hype around gated fuzz in the noise community, it truly is peculiar that these kinds of tools do not seem to get more attention all around. It might even be time for a dedicated thread regarding tips & tricks/signal flow/methods...
Let's call it trade secrets...
Quote from: JLIAT on May 25, 2020, 03:34:05 PM
I've some windows VB programs for randomly chopping up sound files here...
also for turning other files into WAVs etc.
http://www.jliat.com/download/index.html
which might be of interest?
Some years late to this, but I just downloaded your cut-up program and it seems like it can do some very interesting things. Do you have any suggestions on how to get the best results out of it? Thanks for making it available!