Special Interest

won't start panicking now, but the shit hits the fan here in Italy.

I live in Lombardy, but work in Switzerland. My own employees Sunday night communicated me I cannot go to work until April. I can't see my better half who is currently in another region at her parents'. My family doctor got it and is serious.

We cancelled all events we have planned for 3 months, loosing lots of money.
Towns are emptied, you cannot move from town to town unless you show a certification.
Supermarkets were ransacked of the most bizarre goods (toilet paper lol), and now there are requests for stronger laws that prevents us many other things and wants to close all shops etc until the virus goes away.

Information is crazy, in the first weeks they stirred panic and on the other side some bragged tranquillity by organizing pub crawls (and now they are positive to the virus).
There were riots in jail when it was requested to stop family meetings. A few people died during that, some of overdose.

We live interesting times.

*infection rates are about 0,001% (about 50-100 cases in 1 million population depending on region)
*recovery rate of the closed cases of prior infection is 94%
*6% died on average
*age group 20-49 mortality rate is below 1% (of the infected)
*mortality rate rises "significantly" after age 70+ (8%) and 80+ (15%)
*these numbers just say that old people who died were also infected with COVID-19, death however could be related to underlying health conditions

Don't panic, don't blindly believe any media outlets - look at the stats they're referencing and check if those are legit (e.g. official government health organizations reports)

IMO the problem is not the virus but the regulations by the governments, and the media for hyping up mass hysteria.

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on March 10, 2020, 04:35:50 PM
Don't panic, don't blindly believe any media outlets - look at the stats they're referencing and check if those are legit (e.g. official government health organizations reports)

Sorry to contradict you, but it is my job to work with these data and I am in constant communication with WEO representatives.

I'm in the middle of it. And it is as serious as they say.

Lombardy's hospital system is completely collapsing by the quantity of people they are hospitalizing for effective symptoms. They are moving other kind of ill people in hospitals down south which never happened before.

Quote from: CannibalRitual on March 10, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
IMO the problem is not the virus but the regulations by the governments, and the media for hyping up mass hysteria.

THIS FOR SURE, but it is escalating and the rest is secondary.
The management of the situation at media level was crazy, and some notable members of the government were inviting people to go out and party (and now they are postive ah ah)

problem is that it is spreading too aggressively for the Italian health system and they are already saying they will choose who to save and who to let go (confirmed two hours ago with a local doctor who works in pneumologie).

This virus causes acute respiratory symptoms in the elderly and immunocompromised, which can lead to death at worst, but also the need for mechanical ventilation.  This, combined with its virulence, means it is more severe than the flu in that you cannot just stay home and recover. Many (as seen in Italy) require hospitalization. What happens when hospitals fill all their beds? People will die.

Sure, if you are a hale and hearty mid 30s misanthrope this whole thing seems a bit much, but it is a severe world health crisis and shrugging it off as no worse than the flu is a very solipsistic, and inaccurate viewpoint.

PS
What is Bacillus up to these days?

I live in NY State and right now we have the 2nd most confirmed cases (no deaths) in the US - none in my area as of right now

I work in an office where a lot of people do not wash their hands after the use the restroom/etc, so I've already been in a habit of washing my hands and using sanitizer, hopeful this instills more of that in people

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 10, 2020, 06:39:25 PM
The management of the situation at media level was crazy, and some notable members of the government were inviting people to go out and party (and now they are postive ah ah)

Today the politicians in Germany discussed whether they demand lower prices for Pay TV because people would miss out on soccer games.

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 10, 2020, 06:13:49 PM

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on March 10, 2020, 04:35:50 PM
Don't panic, don't blindly believe any media outlets - look at the stats they're referencing and check if those are legit (e.g. official government health organizations reports)

Sorry to contradict you, but it is my job to work with these data and I am in constant communication with WEO representatives.

Where's the contradiction here? All I said was to refer to data - are you saying the complete opposite?

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 10, 2020, 06:13:49 PMI'm in the middle of it. And it is as serious as they say.

"They say" meaning the media? Or the government?

Quote from: Eigen Bast on March 10, 2020, 06:56:08 PMit is a severe world health crisis and shrugging it off as no worse than the flu is a very solipsistic, and inaccurate viewpoint.

It's not solipsistic it's just factually incorrect. Covid as you described is clearly "worse" than flu in terms of mortality rate as seen in the data.

As a frontline healthcare worker I only hope this trend of people actually washing their hands continues.

Quote from: Eigen Bast on March 10, 2020, 06:56:08 PM
This virus causes acute respiratory symptoms in the elderly and immunocompromised, which can lead to death at worst, but also the need for mechanical ventilation.  This, combined with its virulence, means it is more severe than the flu in that you cannot just stay home and recover. Many (as seen in Italy) require hospitalization. What happens when hospitals fill all their beds? People will die.

Sure, if you are a hale and hearty mid 30s misanthrope this whole thing seems a bit much, but it is a severe world health crisis and shrugging it off as no worse than the flu is a very solipsistic, and inaccurate viewpoint.

PS
What is Bacillus up to these days?

this is what I was trying to say in my limited English, and this is what is what is currently happening.

Saying it is factually incorrect means you are living on the moon and out of reality.

"THEY" are the representatives of the world health organization, the Italian correspondents of the NHS, my family doctor (who is currently risking his life) and government representatives of both the Swiss and Italin state I've been in direct line since last Friday instead of finishing the artwork of the next Caligula box or do my normal job :)

It is the second time in my life I find myself right in the middle of massive health scare, but this is way more dangerous than the previous.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/685d0ace521648f8a5beeeee1b9125cd

we are currently second in the charts of the WHO, which, considering the fact we have a strong density over a small country makes the thing even more difficult, since hospitals are not enough for something so aggressive.

In the US, it seems that the fear is really starting to catch on.  I went to a few grocery stores over the weekend, and entire aisles of cleaning supplies were entirely empty.  I never thought much of it until then.

panic is as bad as a superficial approach

a few days ago two places here were completely off of water and toilet paper lol

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 11, 2020, 01:03:27 AMSaying it is factually incorrect means you are living on the moon and out of reality.

You probably misread but I said that "covid being no worse than the flu" is factually incorrect.

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 11, 2020, 01:03:27 AM"THEY" are the representatives of the world health organization, the Italian correspondents of the NHS (...) and government representatives of both the Swiss and Italin state

Cool, that's exactly the people I advised to listen to in my first post.
Seems like we don't disagree on anything then.

Italy needs to up its game when it comes to hospitals and urgent treatment. You guys got a lot of old people down there so the death count will likely be higher than China (per capita of course)

Ok sorry for the misread mate :)

Problem is it is not hitting several below- 60s and healthy people as well. Apparently our virus is different than the Chinese one and there are risk of ongoing mutation.

Fun cat, there have been a few cases of Italian Covid in China now ah ah returning the favor

Been reading in the news about Italian events. Very hardcore. From what I understand the virus is in pretty much every continent but at varying degrees. It's a very fast moving disease, but we live in a fast moving world. No wonder it's mutating to keep up.

I don't think anyone is able to explain the fetish for toilet paper. Just about every news report and social media post on the subject expresses how silly the obsession is, but no one seems to be defending it, that I've seen so far.

My biggest concern is the knock-on effect on economies, both regional and the world's. Even if this thing is under control by, for example, July, that's a huge amount of time for people to be unproductive in a gobal society that demands productivity. World Depression II.

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on March 11, 2020, 02:15:00 AM
I don't think anyone is able to explain the fetish for toilet paper. Just about every news report and social media post on the subject expresses how silly the obsession is, but no one seems to be defending it, that I've seen so far.

I remember my grandpa was using the newspaper to clean his ass. Always ! Harsh, haha ! And indeed that was that newspaper's real and only value.

Dont know guys. All this seems too much to me. Like world decided to create big problem out of nothing. One gov follows the other, and we all go the downfall. I talk about economical consequences, yes. - Maybe this virus become the worst killer in history, who knows, not likely, but for now i think it's mass hysteria that will cause us real problems. And i cant blame the people, it is the governments that are taking extreme measures like never before, so it's quite normal some people be panic'd as well.

Quote from: Theodore on March 11, 2020, 06:04:44 AM
Dont know guys. All this seems too much to me. Like world decided to create big problem out of nothing. One gov follows the other, and we all go the downfall. I talk about economical consequences, yes. - Maybe this virus become the worst killer in history, who knows, not likely, but for now i think it's mass hysteria that will cause us real problems. And i cant blame the people, it is the governments that are taking extreme measures like never before, so it's quite normal some people be panic'd as well.

I wouldn't want to give a penny to all the people who might get infected without the containment measures governments are taking now. Especially not when covid-19 as it is in Italy seems to have a mortality rate of more or less 5%. It might seem drastic as long as you have an outside view on things. Media coverage is another story. For every serious article there seem to be 5 spreading the fear/misinformation.

Just a couple of points. The idea that the virus in Italy is a different one, a mutation from the Chinese, i've not come across. Even so this doesn't explain the extreme difference in the volume of cases in Italy to other countries where the source has been traced to Italy?

As for mortality rates, if in some cases the effects of the virus are minimal, and I think that is the case, and so not reported, the % will be biased. More so if there is a greater tendency to report illness or not within a social group. 

As for the virus being more deadly than flu, between 1,000 & 2,000 deaths in the UK from flu a year. 1,000 road deaths, 6,000 deaths from accidents in the home. I'm not saying it isn't deadly, or more so, i'm more confused by the data.

Finally! It is sometimes the case that the record of death might be recorded as due to the virus or some underlying condition. And this might differ in different health services. e.g. someone terminally ill with cancer, days or hours to live might catch the virus and so death be recorded as due to the virus, or due to the cancer? I had a relative in which this was the case, not cancer or the virus, but Parkinsons, cause of death was recorded as choking.

The toilet roll thing! And the sales of Anti*Bacterial*Handwash. Anyway the anti viral stuff needs 60% alcohol I see? So Vodka is no good. Is there anyone here who could tell me – would something like methylated spirits or turps do the job. I understand the alcohol works by destroying the virus' fatty membrane?

 soap works better apparently but handwash with 60%+ is good too, detailed info here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1236549305189597189.html

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 11:29:47 AMThe idea that the virus in Italy is a different one, a mutation from the Chinese, i've not come across. Even so this doesn't explain the extreme difference in the volume of cases in Italy to other countries where the source has been traced to Italy?

Me neither, would like to see a source for that claim as well. The difference of cases in Italy could have multiple reasons - lots of tourists, unprepared hospitals, lots of old people, ... all speculation of course.

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 11:29:47 AMAs for mortality rates, if in some cases the effects of the virus are minimal, and I think that is the case, and so not reported, the % will be biased. More so if there is a greater tendency to report illness or not within a social group.

The cases are not reported by "social groups" but by hospitals directly to WHO. Given the urgency of the situation I doubt any doctor would actively prevent reporting cases tested positive for covid.

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 11:29:47 AMAs for the virus being more deadly than flu, between 1,000 & 2,000 deaths in the UK from flu a year.

Yes but there are also way more flu infections than what's to be expected from covid. UK even reports an average no. of deaths of 17,000 over the last 5 seasons by flu like diseases. It's fucking hard to find these numbers but I've come across a mortality rate for flu of below 1%, which is less than covid (3.4%). You can't just compare the total amount of deaths, but instead take the percentage of people that got infected and then actually died from it and compare those.

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 11:29:47 AMIt is sometimes the case that the record of death might be recorded as due to the virus or some underlying condition.

This is already being distinguished by the statistics (deaths in combination and without underlying health conditions). Average mortality rate across ages for covid without any underlying health conditions is below 1% (still all old people)

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 11:29:47 AMThe toilet roll thing! And the sales of Anti*Bacterial*Handwash. Anyway the anti viral stuff needs 60% alcohol I see? So Vodka is no good. Is there anyone here who could tell me – would something like methylated spirits or turps do the job. I understand the alcohol works by destroying the virus' fatty membrane?

Most common antiseptics for viral disinfection are polyhexanide & octenidine dihydrochloride; whereas alcohol is less effective against viruses. The toilet paper thing is almost a meme at this point - does the virus literally scare the shit out of people?!

This Corona virus is worse than football with its many armchair experts everywhere. The worst are the conspiracy theorists.

But I'm glad to hear Nadine Dorries got it though. It's good if she dies.

I hope it doesn't fuck up the Magma gig I have tickets for.

Marco, hope things are OK in spite of everything and that things return to normal for you soon!

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 11:29:47 AMAs for mortality rates, if in some cases the effects of the virus are minimal, and I think that is the case, and so not reported, the % will be biased. More so if there is a greater tendency to report illness or not within a social group.

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on March 11, 2020, 03:10:31 PM
The cases are not reported by "social groups" but by hospitals directly to WHO. Given the urgency of the situation I doubt any doctor would actively prevent reporting cases tested positive for covid.

Not what I meant, I meant some may get sick, think its just a cold so not report it to anyone.  We only know the numbers who are tested positive, not those who are never tested and get over it. So if we don't know how many actually get the virus the figures are not definite, and if a large number of individuals get the virus and recover without even knowing they had it, the % is wrong. So it should be 3% of those tested positive, and then the age and underlying health caveat.

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 11:29:47 AMAs for the virus being more deadly than flu, between 1,000 & 2,000 deaths in the UK from flu a year.

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on March 11, 2020, 03:10:31 PM
Yes but there are also way more flu infections than what's to be expected from covid. UK even reports an average no. of deaths of 17,000 over the last 5 seasons by flu like diseases. It's fucking hard to find these numbers but I've come across a mortality rate for flu of below 1%, which is less than covid (3.4%). You can't just compare the total amount of deaths, but instead take the percentage of people that got infected and then actually died from it and compare those. 

The 3% in China was only in the outbreak area I thought, elsewhere lower... and also age and underlying medical conditions. It seems saying 3% mortality rate in these cases is not reasonable. If you just say 3% mortality rate it implies 3% of any of 100 infected, which is not  the case, which your last point covers.

As for toilet paper, I can remember many years ago using newspaper, maybe we should re-introduce this, recycling and improves literacy!

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 04:45:22 PM
As for toilet paper, I can remember many years ago using newspaper, maybe we should re-introduce this, recycling and improves literacy!

It will clog toilets so creates more jobs as well, for those who wanna clean it up.

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 04:45:22 PMNot what I meant, I meant some may get sick, think its just a cold so not report it to anyone.  We only know the numbers who are tested positive, not those who are never tested and get over it. So if we don't know how many actually get the virus the figures are not definite, and if a large number of individuals get the virus and recover without even knowing they had it, the % is wrong. So it should be 3% of those tested positive, and then the age and underlying health caveat.

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 04:45:22 PMThe 3% in China was only in the outbreak area I thought, elsewhere lower... and also age and underlying medical conditions. It seems saying 3% mortality rate in these cases is not reasonable. If you just say 3% mortality rate it implies 3% of any of 100 infected, which is not  the case, which your last point covers.

Okay thanks for clarifying. However, the uncertainty of how many actually get the virus is in place whether it be covid or regular flu and thus enables comparing the statistics between those. Again, 3% is the total average mortality rate across all age groups of all cases so far and is of course taken only from positive test results; Would be a bit much if it was % of the total population.

Quote from: CannibalRitual on March 11, 2020, 04:48:14 PM

Quote from: JLIAT on March 11, 2020, 04:45:22 PM
As for toilet paper, I can remember many years ago using newspaper, maybe we should re-introduce this, recycling and improves literacy!

It will clog toilets so creates more jobs as well, for those who wanna clean it up.

It might also help the journalists who write in these to be more realistic in their opinions of themselves.

BTW- it never did block, I think these days fat is more a problem. And condoms....

Has anyone watched "Pandemic: How to Prevent an Outbreak" on Netflix?

Rise of deaths, rise of sick people, lack of tools, stricter laws and it is officially considered Pandemia by the WHO

After two days, there are still good signs of improvement in the original red zone.

Quote from: DSOL on March 11, 2020, 08:28:28 PM
Has anyone watched "Pandemic: How to Prevent an Outbreak" on Netflix?

I did - really enjoyed it, particularly the pig testing scenes farm is Venezuela or wherever it was.

many more case here in Canada too future looks bleak

WHO declares coronavirus global pandemic...
https://www.foxnews.com/health/who-declares-coronavirus-global-pandemic
(https://rense.com/1.mpicons/virus-slider6/17.jpg)
Audio From Two Italian Physicians In The Heart Of The Crisis https://files.catbox.moe/3ns6c1.mp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbyPW8lJX2E

A man wearing a surgical mask stabbed an Asian man in Brooklyn, New York, more than a dozen times over the weekend, reported the New York Post.

NYPD sources told The Post that the incident occurred on Saturday evening, around 8th Avenue, could be one of the first Covid-19-related hate crimes in the country. NYPD later tweeted that there was "absolutely no nexus between the attack and the coronavirus."

Li Qianyang, 48, was walking down 8th Avenue on Saturday evening when a man wearing a surgical mask stabbed him 13 times, the police said.

A police source told The Post that the attacker "was on top of him stabbing him."

   "One guy was chasing the other guy, and caught up with him outside," a store owner told the Post. "He stabbed him so many times, and I'm amazed he survived."

First responders found Qianyang in a pool of blood, and it was reported that the attacker stabbed him in the heart. He was immediately taken to Lutheran Medical Center and remained in critical condition.

Video of the incident was recorded on a mobile phone, which shows how the attack played out. It appears the assailant had no interest in robbing the man but instead wanted Qianyang dead for reasons that are still unknown

https://nypost.com/2020/03/08/asian-man-stabbed-in-suspected-coronavirus-related-hate-crime/

C19 is completely being used as political weapon in the states...
CDC sabotaged tests...
purposely allowed for infections spreading...
must just be coincidence that Rod Rosenstein's sister runs the CDC...

China threatened to shut off all medical supplies(that they now manufacture 95%+) for US...
if capitalist dogs don't bow for the Red Dragon...
welcome to the presidential election year media shitstorm show...

obviously it is a lab engineered bioweapon...
not a bad bowl of bat soup...
hmmm no more Hong Kong protests or mainland rebellion or trade war....
WorldWide Prime Time Politics

Panic in the streets...
Shutdowns...
Shortages...
Avoid All Social Activities...

Deadly Viral "Weapon of Mass Distraction" Effecting Society Unleashed...

always remember it's wascist calling it "the Wuhan Virus"

(http://www.n01ze.com/HugNeNow.png)
guess what "big surprise candidate" is coming next for "saving" the world from "C19"
watch this Vid from right before Virus outbreak:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykh12mjRmaQ
connect the dots...

The panic has gotten worse where I live.  Pretty much all of the classes at my university will now be held online.

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on March 12, 2020, 12:18:50 AM
Audio From Two Italian Physicians In The Heart Of The Crisis https://files.catbox.moe/3ns6c1.mp4
...
A man wearing a surgical mask stabbed an Asian man in Brooklyn, New York, more than a dozen times over the weekend, reported the New York Post.
...
Covid-19-related hate crimes
...
C19 is completely being used as political weapon in the states...
CDC sabotaged tests...
purposely allowed for infections spreading...
...
Panic in the streets...
Shutdowns...
Shortages...
Avoid All Social Activities...
...
Deadly Viral "Weapon of Mass Distraction" Effecting Society Unleashed...
...
Wacist
...

When comes the hysteria/conspiracy fueled conceptual C19 tape release?

Quote from: minimal.impact on March 12, 2020, 04:02:59 AM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on March 12, 2020, 12:18:50 AM
Audio From Two Italian Physicians In The Heart Of The Crisis https://files.catbox.moe/3ns6c1.mp4
...
A man wearing a surgical mask stabbed an Asian man in Brooklyn, New York, more than a dozen times over the weekend, reported the New York Post.
...
Covid-19-related hate crimes
...
C19 is completely being used as political weapon in the states...
CDC sabotaged tests...
purposely allowed for infections spreading...
...
Panic in the streets...
Shutdowns...
Shortages...
Avoid All Social Activities...
...
Deadly Viral "Weapon of Mass Distraction" Effecting Society Unleashed...
...
Wacist
...

When comes the hysteria/conspiracy fueled conceptual C19 tape release?

it's way more current global reality...
good idea have to manually make c19 tape from c32...
PandademicPanicAttack...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~6MAAOSwu4BVoyKG/s-l1600.jpg)
can splice out few seconds from c20... presto!!! custom made c19

hmm must have missed this trend of Chinese women demanding to hug american racist conspiracy nerds but ok

Pretty sure uk schools are going to be closed up over the next couple of days, Ireland have done just that today so its only a matter of time.
I guess I will be looking at around 4 weeks at home (since the Easter holidays are coming up too). My kids (and I) are serious outdoor types, barely a day goes by when they havn't got out and got muddy / wet / grazed knees.  Thats what I'm dreading the most.... at least we have a tiny garden to use, Feel sorry for the families who will be cooped up in these high rise city centre flats.

If i do get stuck at home, I will be writing a new zine and making music whenever I can.  Make the most of it.  I cannot work from home (duh, im a welder)

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 10, 2020, 03:19:45 PM
won't start panicking now, but the shit hits the fan here in Italy.

I live in Lombardy, but work in Switzerland. My own employees Sunday night communicated me I cannot go to work until April. I can't see my better half who is currently in another region at her parents'. My family doctor got it and is serious.

We cancelled all events we have planned for 3 months, loosing lots of money.
Towns are emptied, you cannot move from town to town unless you show a certification.
Supermarkets were ransacked of the most bizarre goods (toilet paper lol), and now there are requests for stronger laws that prevents us many other things and wants to close all shops etc until the virus goes away.

Information is crazy, in the first weeks they stirred panic and on the other side some bragged tranquillity by organizing pub crawls (and now they are positive to the virus).
There were riots in jail when it was requested to stop family meetings. A few people died during that, some of overdose.

We live interesting times.

Hi marco.
Claudio here.
Same shit here.
Brescia is highly contagious.
At home until April

This is a bizarre situation. The issue is extremely partisan, as usual, but it doesn't follow any normal partisan lines. For example, Trump stands shoulder to shoulder with the Swedish government in downplaying the danger (though the Donald seems to have changed his mind, and even Sweden is now starting to implement some restrictions). Meanwhile, half the media is mocking online conspiracy theorists for allegedly overstating the dangers of the virus, while the other half of the media - aided by some pretty credible experts - are saying the same things as the online conspiracy theorists.

I am a fond believer in the notion that nothing ever happens ever, but there are some reasons for concern here that can't be ascribed to the mass media being moronic. The stock market is one such thing. Contrary to public perceptions, they aren't really that prone to reacting to media histrionics. Stuff like the election of Trump, Brexit, the election of Right or Left wing populists in various European countries have had barely any effect, despite insane levels of media doomsaying. Yet here they are, collapsing, on account of this virus outbreak. Granted, the shut downs of Chinese and Italian industrial production have had very direct effects on the economy in themselves, but even so this is uncomfortable.

I miss the doldrums of everyday identity politics.

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."
MORE GLOBAL FEAR PORN!
Declare Emergency Powers...
scare/herd/control the sheep through media...
make whatever changes on society without any real resistance...
there are so many angles in the big picture now for being exploited...
Covid19 can be used as excuse for all sorts of things that were on the agenda...

maybe stock up on anything you will need for next few months if you haven't already... just in case... better safe than sorry...

Looking at the stats Germany got relative high number of cases but a lot less deaths in comparison. One would guess we're either hiding something or otherwise there's some Aryan blood magic going on.

Quote from: CannibalRitual on March 13, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Looking at the stats Germany got relative high number of cases but a lot less deaths in comparison. One would guess we're either hiding something or otherwise there's some Aryan blood magic going on.

China 3.9%
Italy 6.7%
UK 1.7%
France 2.1%
Germany 0.2%
USA  2.3%

The argument made for Italy was the concentration in the North overwhelms the health services and it has an older population... ???

Many non elderly people are currently getting it and passing.

In the town of Piacenza most people who are getting it are dying in the hospital.

Like Claudio, I'm stuck at home since Monday. I have to buy

No toilet paper issue here, we use bidet.  ah ah

Italy is in complete lock down for 2 weeks. I am out of of the office until the 3rd of April.

I've been looking at the numbers for total cases/deaths, e.g.

Spain 3,779 and 87 deaths
France 2,876 and 61 deaths
USA 1,762 and 41 deaths
Germany 2,750 and 6 deaths

Italy of course is a lot worse with 15,113 and 1,016 deaths.

Nevertheless, I think in the end Germany will be hit a lot worse. Currently the country is still widely open everywhere, while other countries locked shit down a lot sooner.

Italy is getting supposedly hit hardcore with extreme virulent strain....
Russia locked down borders instantly and have no problem...
Germany is wide open as usual thanks to MommaMerkel...
c19 is spreading fast in the states...
anyways...
best of luck
aka bonus fortuna!

I can bet Russia isn't going to be exactly fourth coming with any true data

The only death in Greece is someone who had an open heart surgery, he had 'promised' if he survives the surgery to visit the 'holy land' as oblation to god. Well, surgery went fine, he visited Israel, got the bug there, returned and died. - Life ...

https://www.linkedin.com/content-guest/article/notes-from-ucsf-expert-panel-march-10-dr-jordan-shlain-m-d-/

In Russia, there are few officially infected, but many believe that there are more real patients. Now they began to introduce restrictions on various events.
It's funny, but the country's leadership under all these problems with COVID-19 is turning a catastrophic policy on changing the constitution and zeroing the presidential term ...

Quote from: CannibalRitual on March 13, 2020, 12:23:18 PMGermany will be hit a lot worse.

Worse than Italy? No.

Quote from: Cementimental on March 13, 2020, 04:02:41 PM
https://www.linkedin.com/content-guest/article/notes-from-ucsf-expert-panel-march-10-dr-jordan-shlain-m-d-/

"40-70% of the US population will be infected over the next 12-18 months."

China 80,815 cases population 1,437,616,423

0.005%  - is my maths bad?

Jordan Shlain is an American physician and entrepreneur. A practicing primary care physician and the chairman and founder of Private Medical, a family office for health and medicine, and HealthLoop, a cloud-based clinical engagement platform, he lectures on subjects related to public policy, economics, and new models of delivering health care


What's below are essentially direct quotes from the panelists. I bracketed the few things that are not quotes.

[We used their numbers to work out a guesstimate of deaths— indicating about 1.5 million Americans may die. The panelists did not disagree with our estimate. This compares to seasonal flu's average of 50K Americans per year. Assume 50% of US population, that's 160M people infected. With 1% mortality rate that's 1.6M Americans die over the next 12-18 months.] 


Stuart C. Ray
Vice Chair of Medicine for Data Integrity & Analytics
I am concerned that the estimate of 1.5 million deaths is based on SEVERELY flawed equivalence of "case" with "infection".I agree with the case fatality rate (CFR) estimate of 0.4-2.0% (and that it'll probably come out to be close to 1%).It also seems reasonable to guess that the incidence over the next 12-18 months could be 160 million infections.HOWEVER, the CFR definition is based on symptomatic cases, and does not include asymptomatic infections, which may well exceed the number of symptomatic cases. It's very likely that when we have widespread serology (antibody test) results we'll learn that ~half of infections are asymptomatic. I'm surprised that anyone paying close attention would make an error like this, so I wonder if I'm missing something - but I think the mortality estimate is based on seriously flawed logic.

Quote from: JLIAT on March 13, 2020, 04:57:39 PM

Quote from: Cementimental on March 13, 2020, 04:02:41 PM
https://www.linkedin.com/content-guest/article/notes-from-ucsf-expert-panel-march-10-dr-jordan-shlain-m-d-/

"40-70% of the US population will be infected over the next 12-18 months."
[...]
but I think the mortality estimate is based on seriously flawed logic.

Yeah seriously, where the fuck did he get that infection rate from?!

Here in Quebec we have school closures, empty shelves at grocery stores, and the possibility of closing off the island of Montreal. 17 confirmed cases.

unfortunately "they" are learning using this "crisis" for "total control" & it's highly doubtful anything will ever be as it was before C19...
attempted warning people stock up on food and other important items month+ ago...
keep in mind this is only the first wave with the second more lethal viral wave typically coming next fall/winter...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI-9v-TdshU

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on March 13, 2020, 07:40:32 PMunfortunately "they" are learning using this "crisis" for "total control" & it's highly doubtful anything will ever be as it was before C19...
attempted warning people stock up on food and other important items month+ ago...
keep in mind this is only the first wave with the second more lethal viral wave typically coming next fall/winter...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI-9v-TdshU

Shut up with your fear mongery. "Highly doubtful anything will ever be as it was" - are you kidding me?! Everything will go back to normal once this thing is over. "Attempted warning"?! yeah right not a douche thing at all to say in retrospect. I "attempted warning" months ago LOL.
"Second wave"??! Wtf are you talking about. In case you're trolling then good job you got me

Great time to start hawking out rolls of toilet paper for 10x the price on ebay. Just steal them from restaurants and service stations and its all profit.

I don't think it takes much "research", or even imagination, to suggest that there could be another pandemic sometime after this one subsides. The SARS outbreak was only eight-to-seven years ago, and that reportedly killed over seven hundred people in seventeen countries. When the next one does roll around the conspiratorists can just declare they told us so. It wont make any difference.

It feels strange to post such a vid here, but this was the best interview with a Scientist concerning COVID-19 I've seen so far.

https://youtu.be/dcJDpV-igjs (https://youtu.be/dcJDpV-igjs)

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on March 14, 2020, 12:08:39 AM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on March 13, 2020, 07:40:32 PMunfortunately "they" are learning using this "crisis" for "total control" & it's highly doubtful anything will ever be as it was before C19...
attempted warning people stock up on food and other important items month+ ago...
keep in mind this is only the first wave with the second more lethal viral wave typically coming next fall/winter...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI-9v-TdshU

Shut up with your fear mongery. "Highly doubtful anything will ever be as it was" - are you kidding me?! Everything will go back to normal once this thing is over. "Attempted warning"?! yeah right not a douche thing at all to say in retrospect. I "attempted warning" months ago LOL.
"Second wave"??! Wtf are you talking about. In case you're trolling then good job you got me

obviously you do not comprehend how some virus' functions in waves...
personally hope it is just 1 wave and then vanishes over spring summer...
yet pandemics have tendency for being in waves...
do some research or don't... either way really don't care wtf you do or don't...
Normal? yeah right... everything always goes back to "Normal"
maybe your "Normal" is Normally, all orders are being shipped within 1-5 days.
Oh you live in Staziland that explains much... in regards your "Normal"
We stocked up long before food and supplies started running out in stores recently...
& media started super pushing the fear porn for causing mad rush...
US is in official "State of Emergency" as of today because of c19...
Glück

(http://www.helenahistory.org/flu_masks_1918_19.jpg)
not saying c19 will be like 1918/19 Spanish flu... ww2 typhoid epidemic in Germany... or even your typical day in Yemen...
yet it has the potential of being big pain shutting down multiple facets of society mainly because of R0(spread rate), Politics, & FearPorn...
plus has nasty habit of primarily targeting/killing off pensioners supposedly...
always trust your Gov
they are your friends
& care about you
:P
(that was officially trolling just in case you couldn't figure it out in translation)
(https://maibey.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/pangolin-tongue.jpg)
please DON'T EAT the Pangolins!!!

Things are going to explode in Finland in 1-2 weeks max. Our Spice Girls government haven't done f—k all. They hide behind the backs of the health authority, but if you look at their statements going back 2, 4, 6 weeks they have been wrong every time.

Today it descended into South Park territory when the chief of national health organization was coughing and sneezing live on television, blowing his nose into a cloth handkerchief, rubbing his face with the same hand, then wrapping the hankie around a microphone he then handed to another person — immediately after telling the public to not do any of those things.

I'm involved in organizing two large gigs in the next few weeks, one of them part of a larger festival. The festival is almost certainly dead in the water, trying to decide whether or not postpone the other one.

Quote from: Atrophist on March 14, 2020, 03:31:34 AM
Things are going to explode in Finland in 1-2 weeks max. Our Spice Girls government haven't done f—k all. They hide behind the backs of the health authority, but if you look at their statements going back 2, 4, 6 weeks they have been wrong every time.

Today it descended into South Park territory when the chief of national health organization was coughing and sneezing live on television, blowing his nose into a cloth handkerchief, rubbing his face with the same hand, then wrapping the hankie around a microphone he then handed to another person — immediately after telling the public to not do any of those things.

I'm involved in organizing two large gigs in the next few weeks, one of them part of a larger festival. The festival is almost certainly dead in the water, trying to decide whether or not postpone the other one.

ja it's all getting Absurd South Parkesque... exponential rate of infection... R0 6+???
40 band Noise Fest here in May that will probably be completely fukt because of C19...
schools are shutting down... sporting events are cancelled.. "small" off the radar underground gigs could probably be safe..
as long as they don't go all psycho martial law on lockdowns, curfew, & travel checkpoints... plus legal fines for getting busted having small noise shows

Dude you linked a video from fox news to back up your claims so don't tell me to do my research
Your kind of mental processes are responsible for people believing in scientology and UFOs

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on March 14, 2020, 12:08:39 AM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on March 13, 2020, 07:40:32 PMunfortunately "they" are learning using this "crisis" for "total control" & it's highly doubtful anything will ever be as it was before C19...
attempted warning people stock up on food and other important items month+ ago...
keep in mind this is only the first wave with the second more lethal viral wave typically coming next fall/winter...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI-9v-TdshU

Shut up with your fear mongery. "Highly doubtful anything will ever be as it was" - are you kidding me?! Everything will go back to normal once this thing is over. "Attempted warning"?! yeah right not a douche thing at all to say in retrospect. I "attempted warning" months ago LOL.
"Second wave"??! Wtf are you talking about. In case you're trolling then good job you got me

yeah, he surely got you. Let him blabber, have a laugh over it if you can (i know, the urge to start rolling your eyes and uttering WTF ain't easy to surpress)

Interesting approach in the UK...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/europe/coronavirus-britain-boris-johnson.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/europe/coronavirus-britain-boris-johnson.html)

Quote from: anomalie on March 14, 2020, 01:19:18 AM
It feels strange to post such a vid here, but this was the best interview with a Scientist concerning COVID-19 I've seen so far.

https://youtu.be/dcJDpV-igjs (https://youtu.be/dcJDpV-igjs)

Again the 50% to 70% of the population as catching the virus, yet in China- population of over a billion, < 90,000 reported cases giving a fatality fate of just under 4%. So either the 40% to 70% is wrong, or there are very many undiagnosed cases and the mortality rate is much lower. Or my maths is worse than I thought.

Factories shutting down, no air travel, no global imports, people working from home, no cars on the roads, Apple and others closing stores. Why aren't the extinction rebellion people  cheering.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on ones view of humanity this will probably make no impact on the population in the long term. Well it might save the Pangolins, it will increase funding in immunology, and maybe encourage those who think vaccines bad to change their mind.
Hmmm?

So we are not all going to die, err well we are! So results looks like a greater understanding of virus' and the means to cope globally with them... and maybe those who think vaccines bad start using them, and rid the world of other killer diseases.

It seems to me when offered a back to the stone age, or embrace future technology the general population wants the latter. And good or bad?
I really don't know.

My question given this whole shut-down panic sentiment is: why do the media, the government and all these people start caring about old people dying now? Cause it might potentially affect them? Nobody gives a shit normally and lets them just rot away piss poor all alone in some old people's homes. And now all of a sudden WE MUST STOP THIS DISEASE FROM SPREADING AT ALL COSTS. Really we do? Why?

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on March 14, 2020, 11:34:33 AM
My question given this whole shut-down panic sentiment is: why do the media, the government and all these people start caring about old people dying now? Cause it might potentially affect them? Nobody gives a shit normally and lets them just rot away piss poor all alone in some old people's homes. And now all of a sudden WE MUST STOP THIS DISEASE FROM SPREADING AT ALL COSTS. Really we do? Why?

exactly... Oligarchs don't give a fuck about anyone besides themselves first and foremost...  
saying there is something way bigger this "pandemic crisis" is going to be used for now...
they are already financially bailing themselves out in the states with trillions more Gov money & looting public resources via federal reserve public debt...
plus it is all highly politicized here during election year...
let's see what they roll out next... some speculate that this can be used as catalyst for mandatory digital currency
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLTsi3JErBo

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on March 14, 2020, 08:33:26 AM
Dude you linked a video from fox news to back up your claims so don't tell me to do my research
Your kind of mental processes are responsible for people believing in scientology and UFOs

(http://www.controverscial.com/Jack_Parsons_and_Marjorie.jpg)
BTW everybody should realize L Ron was a greedy power hungry SciFi scribe for Jack Parson's(JPL) ill fated (Liber49)Babylon Working...
Supposedly the story is Crowley couldn't stand him at all and didn't even slightly trust LRH plus wanted him out of the Order & Agape lodge...
So after Jack blew up in the garage juggling nitroglycerine, L Ron ran off with his wife(Marjorie Cameron/LadyBabylon) his cash & his boat...
Then Hubbard invented his own Xenu cult for scamming cash from California Scene new age fools...
Doesn't everyone realize that by now??? (except maybe John Travolta & Tom Cruise trapped in a closet)
Thinking that Earthlings are the only sentient life in the cosmos is rather ignorant/shortsighted in a rather geocentric way...
unless of course you think the Earth is flat and stars don't really exist...
even though Pythagoras proved otherwise with "Hull Down" formula around 600bc
(you just trolled yourself?!)
Now let's get back on track with this absurd South Parkesque c19 pandademic fiasco that is causing the current global chaos..
Next...
(https://ibhuluimcom-a.akamaihd.net/ib.huluim.com/video/40006403?region=US&size=600x400)

https://medium.com/@joschabach/flattening-the-curve-is-a-deadly-delusion-eea324fe9727

(https://miro.medium.com/max/1024/0*dyDAQi_j_H7dgupy.gif)
(https://miro.medium.com/max/800/0*U8p2wc_K6APLgTeQ.gif)
There are many more. What all these diagrams have in common:

   They have no numbers on the axes. They don't give you an idea how many cases it takes to overwhelm the medical system, and over how many days the epidemic will play out.
   They suggest that currently, the medical system can deal with a large fraction (like maybe 2/3, 1/2 or 1/3) of the cases, but if we implement some mitigation measures, we can get the infections per day down to a level we can deal with.
   They mean to tell you that we can get away without severe lockdowns as we are currently observing them in China and Italy. Instead, we let the infection burn through the entire population, until we have herd immunity (at 40% to 70%), and just space out the infections over a longer timespan.

from Tim's link post^
(http://1.images.southparkstudios.com/blogs/southparkstudios.com/files/2014/09/107_KennyDeaths_1b.gif)

Quote from: Cementimental on March 14, 2020, 09:34:42 PM
https://medium.com/@joschabach/flattening-the-curve-is-a-deadly-delusion-eea324fe9727

Again - "If we assume that 55% of Americans catch COVID-19" - I don't see this percentage established anywhere in the article.
Of course if you just assume this insane number of infections, the curve will exceed guesstimated hospital capacity by far.

All I ever took from these graphs was that distancing, isolation & washing hands slows down the spread and will not reduce the total number of infections by much if at all, which is both true.
I don't think ordinary citizen look at that illustration and go "oh, the creators figured out the exact number of cases we will get + the exact capacity of hospitalization and came to the conclusion it is exactly "2/3, 1/2 or 1/3" "

I still have a fundamental (emotional/gut) instinct that this is all overblown and possibly borderline humbug, but since it seems to benefit literally no-one and perhaps more importantly be completely unpredictable as to its outcome, it is very difficult to find any usual suspects' motive. It is obviously very bad for virtually all economies and countries, it is equally obviously viciously "anti-globlist" given its effects on borders, ethnic suspicions etc. Add to that the massive blow to all governments who either overdo under underdo things, and the fact that if the consequences are bad but not apocalyptic, there will be millions of people who hold either opinion at the same time (=populist golden moment). If you want to tinfoil hat this one, it would have to be something like "Western intelligence agencies trying to stunt Chinese growth" or "USA/Israel trying to break/limit China and Europe", and it just seems a bit much and too stupid for me.

All this would indicate that we have no choice but to revert to taking things at face value. The problem is then that there is no "face value" upon which to take things. The experts and officials we are supposed to trust once we ween ourselves off of fake news and online hatred contradict each other at every turn, with numerous respectable researchers quoting "50-70% infection rates" even while others says we should all just keep calm and keep going to the local swinger party. Geopolitically, the battle lines are all screwed up - basically you have a restrictive/cautious team consisting of among others China, Italy, Denmark, the Ukraine and Norway, and the "flatten the curve and chill out, bro" countries consisting of such ideological buddies as Boris' UK, Sweden, Germany and Trump's USA. And, obviously, all these governments have their opponents in the form of online haters and resisters, which means you can now find German and Swedish far right people posting the exact same information and arguments as US progressives (Bidenites and radicals alike). It's all very odd, and somewhat hilarious, but it does not make things easier to understand.

I'm not familiar with the overall sentiment in Germany being "chill out, bro". They're already closing schools, workplaces and mobilize hospital capacities. It seems to be a rather cautious approach.

Also can you give an example for this claim:

Quote from: Yrjö-Koskinen on March 14, 2020, 10:15:39 PMyou can now find German and Swedish far right people posting the exact same information and arguments as US progressives

?

Quote from: Yrjö-Koskinen on March 14, 2020, 10:15:39 PM
I still have a fundamental (emotional/gut) instinct that this is all overblown and possibly borderline humbug, but since it seems to benefit literally no-one and perhaps more importantly be completely unpredictable as to its outcome, it is very difficult to find any usual suspects' motive. It is obviously very bad for virtually all economies and countries, it is equally obviously viciously "anti-globlist" given its effects on borders, ethnic suspicions etc. Add to that the massive blow to all governments who either overdo under underdo things, and the fact that if the consequences are bad but not apocalyptic, there will be millions of people who hold either opinion at the same time (=populist golden moment). If you want to tinfoil hat this one, it would have to be something like "Western intelligence agencies trying to stunt Chinese growth" or "USA/Israel trying to break/limit China and Europe", and it just seems a bit much and too stupid for me.

All this would indicate that we have no choice but to revert to taking things at face value. The problem is then that there is no "face value" upon which to take things. The experts and officials we are supposed to trust once we ween ourselves off of fake news and online hatred contradict each other at every turn, with numerous respectable researchers quoting "50-70% infection rates" even while others says we should all just keep calm and keep going to the local swinger party. Geopolitically, the battle lines are all screwed up - basically you have a restrictive/cautious team consisting of among others China, Italy, Denmark, the Ukraine and Norway, and the "flatten the curve and chill out, bro" countries consisting of such ideological buddies as Boris' UK, Sweden, Germany and Trump's USA. And, obviously, all these governments have their opponents in the form of online haters and resisters, which means you can now find German and Swedish far right people posting the exact same information and arguments as US progressives (Bidenites and radicals alike). It's all very odd, and somewhat hilarious, but it does not make things easier to understand.

Philip Giraldi, a former CIA agent and head director for Council for the National Interest unironically postulates that the USA and Israel may have "created" the virus in a lab, because why not I guess:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/who-made-coronavirus-u-s-israel-china/5705628

Quote from: Neanderthal on March 15, 2020, 06:56:50 AM
I was part of the overhype demographic myself but listening to this has swayed me a bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw

Dude is very honest, direct, no sugarcoating of anything - he even predicted this occurring.
I, like I'm sure many of us on this board, am innately skeptical about a lot of things. But dude is laying down some hard fuckin' science.
While both unbelievable and very believable, how head-scratching is it that to get a deep understanding of what's happening we must turn to Joe Rogan...

"The war within the next decade will be microbes rather than missiles."
-Bill Gates, 2015

thanks posting info

(http://cdn.tf.rs/2015/11/12/Slepi-mis3.jpg)
WTF is this: SHC014-CoV
SHC014-CoV is SARS-like coronavirus which infects horseshoe bats, first discovered in China in 2013. In 2015, the Wuhan Institute of Virology conducted research showing the virus could be made to infect the human HeLa cell line, through the use of reverse genetics to create a chimeric virus consisting of a surface protein of SHC014 and the backbone of a SARS virus.

Update (March 11, 2020): On social media and news outlets, a theory has circulated that the coronavirus at the root of the COVID-19 outbreak originated in a research lab. "Scientists say there is no evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 virus escaped from a lab."

Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate
The creation of a chimeric SARS-like virus has scientists discussing the risks of gain-of-function research.
Nov 16, 2015

Ralph Baric, an infectious-disease researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, last week (November 9) published a study on his team's efforts to engineer a virus with the surface protein of the SHC014 coronavirus, found in horseshoe bats in China, and the backbone of one that causes human-like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in mice. The hybrid virus could infect human airway cells and caused disease in mice, according to the team's results, which were published in Nature Medicine.

The results demonstrate the ability of the SHC014 surface protein to bind and infect human cells, validating concerns that this virus—or other coronaviruses found in bat species—may be capable of making the leap to people without first evolving in an intermediate host, Nature reported. They also reignite a debate about whether that information justifies the risk of such work, known as gain-of-function research. "If the [new] virus escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory," Simon Wain-Hobson, a virologist at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, told Nature.

In October 2013, the US government put a stop to all federal funding for gain-of-function studies, with particular concern rising about influenza, SARS, and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS). "NIH [National Institutes of Health] has funded such studies because they help define the fundamental nature of human-pathogen interactions, enable the assessment of the pandemic potential of emerging infectious agents, and inform public health and preparedness efforts," NIH Director Francis Collins said in a statement at the time. "These studies, however, also entail biosafety and biosecurity risks, which need to be understood better."

Baric's study on the SHC014-chimeric coronavirus began before the moratorium was announced, and the NIH allowed it to proceed during a review process, which eventually led to the conclusion that the work did not fall under the new restrictions, Baric told Nature. But some researchers, like Wain-Hobson, disagree with that decision.

The debate comes down to how informative the results are. "The only impact of this work is the creation, in a lab, of a new, non-natural risk," Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist and biodefence expert at Rutgers University, told Nature.

But Baric and others argued the study's importance. "The result move this virus from a candidate emerging pathogen to a clear and present danger," Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance, which samples viruses from animals and people in emerging-diseases hotspots across the globe, told Nature.

(https://newsimgs.sina.tw/article/images/news-15813855071932.jpg)
hmmm so basically multiple Governments have been fucking around toying with SHC014-CoV in research labs as bio-weapon for around 5 years???!
maybe the Oligarchs & political leaders are worried since they travel the globe shaking hands with random people constantly...
& they tend being in the prime kill zone age range for C19...
plus they have inside intelligence on what C19 actually is...
just taking guess...
~shrug~

Nothing to see here folks... move along... keep moving... KEEP MOVING!
LOCK IT ALL DOWN
(https://universe-tss.su/uploads/posts/2020-03/thumbs/1584112465_7_134.jpg)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/20/virus-experiments-risk-global-pandemic
https://www.businessinsider.com/nih-lifts-ban-on-flu-mers-sars-virus-gain-of-function-research-2017-12?op=1
Multiple Gov backed researchers have been fucking around with creating increased "Gain of Function" pandemics recently....
Bill & Melinda Gates have supposedly gone for Safe Virus Free Zone...
What's up with that???
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/13/bill-gates-leaves-microsoft-board.html

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on March 15, 2020, 09:12:02 AM

WTF is this: SHC014-CoV

You answer your own question...?

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on March 15, 2020, 09:12:02 AM

hmmm so basically multiple Governments have been fucking around toying with SHC014-CoV in research labs as bio-weapon for around 5 years???!

Where above does any mention of bio weapon occur? Is any research into disease in animals and humans for you 'research  as bio-weapons'?

Quote

Some biological agents (smallpox, pneumonic plague) have the capability of person-to-person transmission via aerosolized respiratory droplets. This feature can be undesirable, as the agent(s) may be transmitted by this mechanism to unintended populations, including neutral or even friendly forces....

It has been argued that rational state actors would never use biological weapons offensively. The argument is that biological weapons cannot be controlled: the weapon could backfire and harm the army on the offensive, perhaps having even worse effects than on the target. An agent like smallpox or other airborne viruses would almost certainly spread worldwide and ultimately infect the user's home country. However, this argument does not necessarily apply to bacteria. For example, anthrax can easily be controlled and even created in a garden shed; the FBI suspects it can be done for as little as $2,500 using readily available laboratory equipment.

"This sort of work is known as "gain of function" research. It could help us prepare for the possibility that a virus like this might evolve in nature."

The 1918 pandemic killed approximately 50 million people around the globe, making it one of the deadliest events in human history. Some experts believe that if we can create these types of viruses ourselves in a lab, then we might be able to better understand them before (or when) they naturally appear.

Situation is fucked here.
Pre-apocalyptic atmosphere, people living abroad or in other regions are requested to stay where they are.
Controls on the streets are stricters.
Massive increase of death in some towns.

Bergamo published 10 pages of obituaries. Many people dead, they keep being moved from hospital straight to crematory.

The myth the virus was hitting only over 60s and people with illnesses has faded since it is killing and infecting people of any age.

Switzerland is next.

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 15, 2020, 03:19:01 PM
Situation is fucked here.
Pre-apocalyptic atmosphere, people living abroad or in other regions are requested to stay where they are.
Controls on the streets are stricters.
Massive increase of death in some towns.

Bergamo published 10 pages of obituaries. Many people dead, they keep being moved from hospital straight to crematory.

The myth the virus was hitting only over 60s and people with illnesses has faded since it is killing and infecting people of any age.

Switzerland is next.

That's horrible.  I have not heard of anyone who was not elderly or compromised in some way dying from it.

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 15, 2020, 03:19:01 PM
Situation is fucked here.
Pre-apocalyptic atmosphere, people living abroad or in other regions are requested to stay where they are.
Controls on the streets are stricters.
Massive increase of death in some towns.

Bergamo published 10 pages of obituaries. Many people dead, they keep being moved from hospital straight to crematory.

The myth the virus was hitting only over 60s and people with illnesses has faded since it is killing and infecting people of any age.

Switzerland is next.

Seriously appreciate your posting first hand insights...
All we can do here is speculate upon what is coming & why from flood bombardment of contrary information sources...
Pardon any attempts mitigating the usual SouthParkesque absurdity with humor & Research...
The public here usually are lied to for being manipulated over even the most basic of things...
Thus distrust, skepticism, sarcasm and looking beyond the facade are natural defensive protocols anymore...
Grazie di cuore

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on March 14, 2020, 11:23:11 PM
I'm not familiar with the overall sentiment in Germany being "chill out, bro". They're already closing schools, workplaces and mobilize hospital capacities. It seems to be a rather cautious approach.

I'm revising that assessment. It was based on the fact that Germany kept it's border open (until now), and some anecdotal examples of events and institutions remaining open I'd run across. I suppose it makes more sense to put Germany in the other camp now.

Quote
Also can you give an example for this claim:

Quote from: Yrjö-Koskinen on March 14, 2020, 10:15:39 PMyou can now find German and Swedish far right people posting the exact same information and arguments as US progressives

?

Having used the term "far right" I'm loath to name individual Twitter accounts. But my broader point was that the outside-of-the-mainstream Right in Scandinavia (and, as far as I've seen, Germany) by and large have urged sterner measures. For instance the AfD was early on wanting to close the border (https://jungefreiheit.de/politik/deutschland/2020/corona-afd-fordert-einreisestopp-und-grenzkontrollen), and the Swedish libertarian/anti-immigration web outlet Fria Tider has been aggressively critical of the government and at least somewhat alarmist about the virus' potential (I think a google translate of http://friatider.se will give you a fairly accurate pictures, wenn dein Schwedisch etwas rostig ist). Additionally, at least the Scandinavian Left largely seems to defend the government's manjana attitude, saying that there is no scientific reason to, for example, close schools or even test anyone but the critically ill. In the US, the roles are literally reversed, with Trump initially minimizing the importance of the virus, and many right wing folks making arguments very similar to those made by Scandinavian Left wing governments and their supporters (here's Rush, for instance: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2020/03/14/60_million_infected_300000_hospitalized10_years_ago_504451.html). This is also mirrored on social media.

I realize that this is a reflection of who is in government and who is not, but it still says something about our present time. I'm not one to call for "unity" in any realistic sense as things stand in the world right now, and obviously views differ (and some people are stupid and should shut up). Still, we do have a problem when political allegiance - not even ideology, as my examples show, but belonging to a faction within a nation or online context - controls people's perception of reality to such a degree that they judge everything based on nothing but that allegiance.

As things stand, it has become impossible to know whether this is the most retarded case of mass hysteria ever, or an example of numerous nations ruining everything by underestimating the danger of a new Spanish Flu. The truth could lie somewhere in between, but that isn't necessarily the case. I do wish people would spend less time making shit up and trolling each other, and more time actually trying to get to grips with what is going on.

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 15, 2020, 03:19:01 PMThe myth the virus was hitting only over 60s and people with illnesses has faded since it is killing and infecting people of any age.

I don't remember anyone saying it was hitting ages 60+ only. Just that the vast majority of deaths occur in older age groups, which the data proves.
https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/comment/italy-coronavirus-outbreak

Quote from: Yrjö-Koskinen on March 15, 2020, 08:45:19 PMAs things stand, it has become impossible to know whether this is the most retarded case of mass hysteria ever, or an example of numerous nations ruining everything by underestimating the danger of a new Spanish Flu. The truth could lie somewhere in between, but that isn't necessarily the case. I do wish people would spend less time making shit up and trolling each other, and more time actually trying to get to grips with what is going on.

The fact that it's so hard to grasp what's actually going with all these irrational decisions made both by powerful leaders and ordinary citizens with average intelligence on leads me to believe that everything that's happening right now is just a really bizarre unfolding of the human psyche in a globalized interconnected world. Death counts are ridiculous but compared to this the impact on the economy and restrictions within states is insane. That's why people's experiences with the virus are mostly only affected by things indirectly caused by an irrational fear of the virus and not the virus itself.

UK may put all citizens over 70 into isolation for MONTHS as coronavirus spreads across the country
UK's Health Secretary confirmed plans to isolate people aged over 70 for up to four months amid a coronavirus pandemic. The goal is to protect them, but critics say it may be a really bad idea.

Isolating the elderly is "clearly in the action plan" Health Secretary Matt Hancock has told Sky News, confirming earlier reports in the British media. "We will be setting it out with more detail when it's the right time to do," he added, which may come within weeks.

"We absolutely appreciate that it is a very big ask of the elderly and the vulnerable, and it's for their own self-protection," Hancock told Sky News' Sophy Ridge.

Earlier ITV's political editor Robert Peston said the British government was likely to enforce a "wartime-style" mobilization effort and other emergency measures, including isolation of elderly people.

Britain has 1,140 confirmed cases of the Covid-19 disease, with the death toll standing at 21. Elderly people have shown to be more vulnerable to the virus, as they are more likely to develop serious symptoms.

The British government has been criticized for its response to the coronavirus epidemic, which seems to be focused on building up "herd immunity," rather than restraining the spread of the virus.

The plan to have elderly people isolated for months is a testament to the toll that the Tory governments' measures had on the NHS. It also subjects them to increased risks of depression and other problems, some critics say.

The UK has been relatively modest in taking steps like banning mass gatherings, closing schools or restricting travel compared to other countries combating the epidemic. The rationale is that tougher controls will be needed when there are more cases in the country, and that imposing them now would be less efficient because people would not observe them for long.

The approach was blasted in an open letter from dozens of scientists, who said postponing "social distancing" measures was not a viable option and that it would only result in overwhelming the British healthcare system.

https://www.rt.com/uk/483166-uk-elderly-people-isolation/

Let's see what this is all like in 30 days....
Is it an easy excuse for or Orwellian Gov/Medical/Military industry tyranny?
Problem Reaction Solution

Assuming tomorrow Toronto and other major cities get locked down. My parents are on vacation in the US and trying to get home. Really hoping they don't get stuck in the US for this. Imagine having that shit-ass health care system taking care of your aging parents trying to enjoy their retirement?

I'm a frontline community healthcare worker and the situation is really grim. I'm sure I'd pull through but I've got my wife to think about - can't risk infecting my aging folks, I have friends with kids, etc. Self isolation seems really really extreme until you think about all the people you could be passing it too without knowing. Anyway, wash your hands!

Quote from: holy ghost on March 16, 2020, 04:51:00 AM
Assuming tomorrow Toronto and other major cities get locked down.

All venues in Montreal will be closed for at least 30 days and the premier is requesting most businesses close and that people only leave their homes for food or medical reasons. We jumped from 24 to 39 cases in Quebec over night. The numbers are still small in comparison, but it's evident that this escalates quickly. Lockdown does seem like the only next step after this, and the premier has previously stated that he will lockdown the entire island of Montreal if necessary.

The number of old people we save from dying to the virus is gonna be matched by the number of suicides from people being unemployed due to all the shut downs...
Maybe Greta planned all this to stop people from flying.

Tho I like how, in the 3rd one, it looks less like she's washing her hands and more like she's getting reading to punch the guy

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/

Quote"Strangely enough, I think the death toll of the coronavirus at the end of the day might be positive, if you consider the deaths from atmospheric pollution,"

my 91 year grandmother has just been confirmed to have COVID-19

today is her birthday - tried to call her and my father told me the news

Quote from: DSOL on March 16, 2020, 08:38:25 PM
my 91 year grandmother has just been confirmed to have COVID-19

today is her birthday - tried to call her and my father told me the news

Best of luck to her recovery!

(https://rense.com/1.mpicons/virus-slider6/zombies.jpg)
try giving grandma doses of Vitamin C & Allicin... neither one are harmful.... both are natural do some research... get immune system up... Best Of Luck!
Lockdowns & total Orwellian control starting in the states... the fuckers are trying to rush everything political they want through hidden in c19 bills now...
btw more people die every year from medical malpractice and hospitals than from corona virus... "doctors" killed 3 out of 4 of my grandparents...

What worries me is that i havent listened anyone in the media, political parties etc. to have any doubts about the measures ! They all agree and ask for more ! I have started to think we are in the middle of an experiment, exercise, about how much controlable the western societies can be. At the end, when the number of deaths wont justify all this mess, they will say "Number of deaths proves we saved you" and they will whisper "Follow us again whenever we order such" . I dont believe this is a conspiracy, it just being used . But what govs dont understand is that the financial impact will crush them down. Even those that they dont want to follow this policy for their countries, they finally do due to pressure.

To "flat the curve" theory is a bullshit. They say that you can catch the virus again and again, so ...

All these measures , even in war times, in occupied countries, noone dare to take ! - For our own 'good' ofcource. Fuck you ! Tell me how much patients you can handle, and i am responsible for myself, i know the risk. Whoever is afraid, he is free to stay closed in his room, away from all humans. The rest of us, hey, we wanna live and die living, or at least to be free to do so if we want. - Or tell us, for how long all these measures ?! Can you ?

(http://tokyofashion.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Kim-Twins-Friends-Harajuku-2013-03-17-DSC2686.jpg)
(https://cnnespanol2.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/cnn-papel-corona.jpg?quality=100#038;strip=info&w=780&h=438&resize=696%2C391)
(https://i.imgflip.com/3s62lq.jpg)
Let's Play A Game:
Quarantine / Virus comp
Make the best of sittin 'round, fucking off and avoiding the plague by making noise.
Be on the quarantine / corona / toilet paper comp.
It's probably going to be a Bandcamp thing, possibly cdrs
Up to 5min, month deadline
send links to spinjob1@gmail.com
All noise is good noise as long as it is noise
Brought to you by S.P.I.N. & Forever Escaping Boredom Records

reposting reason for turning on gear & pressing record from elsewhere recently since seems on topic...
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/121697844715-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)

Quote from: DSOL on March 16, 2020, 08:38:25 PM
my 91 year grandmother has just been confirmed to have COVID-19

today is her birthday - tried to call her and my father told me the news

good luck with you gran, sorry about that

Quote from: Theodore on March 16, 2020, 11:04:49 PM
I have started to think we are in the middle of an experiment, exercise, about how much controlable the western societies can be [...] But what govs dont understand is that the financial impact will crush them down.

so somehow the politicians who are manipulating the whole world can make everyone afraid of the virus but they "dont understand" that it will have a bad effect on the economy??

QuoteTo "flat the curve" theory is a bullshit. They say that you can catch the virus again and again, so ...

[...] i am responsible for myself, i know the risk. Whoever is afraid, he is free to stay closed in his room, away from all humans. The rest of us, hey, we wanna live and die living, or at least to be free to do so if we want. - Or tell us, for how long all these measures ?! Can you ?

clearly you dont understand the risk because you can carry the virus even if you're not sick, and infect people who will get sick and die. you can throw a fit like a child and demand the government give you answers, but you yourself just said the government doesn't understand the economy, so i don't know what you expect.

Quote from: Theodore on March 16, 2020, 11:04:49 PMFuck you ! Tell me how much patients you can handle, and i am responsible for myself, i know the risk. Whoever is afraid, he is free to stay closed in his room, away from all humans. The rest of us, hey, we wanna live and die living, or at least to be free to do so if we want. - Or tell us, for how long all these measures ?! Can you ?

Basically on the same level of intellect as Kid Rock keeping his steakhouse open, The Exploited continuing to tour and millennials hitting the bars in NYC despite the risk of infecting others..... Since you can go 14 days without symptoms and still infect others. That's the crowd you want to be grouped in with?

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8ma5LaLldwA/XcLD1vXwlSI/AAAAAAAAu20/zDKhMwz9s-UO9TCcDqqrMAtmlABUc0DYACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/EVent%2B201.png)
Event 201: Bill Gates & World Economic Forum Simulated Coronavirus Outbreak 6 Weeks Before First Case in Wuhan

Event 201 is a pandemic tabletop exercise hosted by The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated the pandemic preparedness efforts needed to diminish the large-scale economic and societal consequences of a severe pandemic. Drawing from actual events, Event 201 identifies important policy issues and preparedness challenges that could be solved with sufficient political will and attention. These issues were designed in a narrative to engage and educate the participants and the audience.
Selected moments from the Event 201 pandemic tabletop exercise hosted by The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoLw-Q8X174
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm1-DnxRiPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkGNvWflCNM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWRmlumcN_s

In what has to be bizarre coincidence, in just November of last year, the Gates Foundation held a simulation called "Event 201". Event 201 simulated an outbreak of a "zoonotic "coronavirus". "Zoonatic" would be the spread of disease through animals (vertebrates).
Let's study how the scenario concluded:

   The scenario ends at the 18-month point, with 65 million deaths. The pandemic is beginning to slow due to the decreasing number of susceptible people. The pandemic will continue at some rate until there is an effective vaccine or until 80-90 % of the global population has been exposed. From that point on, it is likely to be an endemic childhood disease.

(http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/sebin/l/i/event201-discussions.jpg)
Other interesting tidbits from the simulation:

   "Although at first some countries are able to control it, it continues to spread and be reintroduced, and eventually no country can maintain control".
   "There is no possibility of a vaccine being available in the first year".
   "Since the whole human population is susceptible, during the initial months of the pandemic, the cumulative number of cases increases exponentially, doubling every week".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBuP40H4Tko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-_FAjNSd58
(https://t4x3y5r8.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/event-201-johns-hopkins-bill-gates-foundation-covid-19-coronavirus-global-pandemic-exercise-933x445.jpg)

Quote from: holy ghost on March 18, 2020, 03:30:18 AM

Quote from: Theodore on March 16, 2020, 11:04:49 PMFuck you ! Tell me how much patients you can handle, and i am responsible for myself, i know the risk. Whoever is afraid, he is free to stay closed in his room, away from all humans. The rest of us, hey, we wanna live and die living, or at least to be free to do so if we want. - Or tell us, for how long all these measures ?! Can you ?

Basically on the same level of intellect as Kid Rock keeping his steakhouse open, The Exploited continuing to tour and millennials hitting the bars in NYC despite the risk of infecting others..... Since you can go 14 days without symptoms and still infect others. That's the crowd you want to be grouped in with?

No problem ! When the monkey says 1+1=2 i agree with the monkey. You can disagree ofcource cause you dont want to be grouped with monkeys. What's the crowd you are grouped with BTW ? Do you like all these people ? Are on the same level of intellect as yours ?

Still infect others ? Read the bold text.

Edit :

Quote from: l.b. on March 18, 2020, 01:49:43 AM

Quote from: Theodore on March 16, 2020, 11:04:49 PM
I have started to think we are in the middle of an experiment, exercise, about how much controlable the western societies can be [...] But what govs dont understand is that the financial impact will crush them down.

so somehow the politicians who are manipulating the whole world can make everyone afraid of the virus but they "dont understand" that it will have a bad effect on the economy??

That's a reasonable point that i ask myself too. Maybe the answer is somewhere behind these facts : All parties agree. So no much gain to anyone. Also in democracy the power switches hands between the same parties, the same people. You loose ? You wait your time to come again, soon. - So to try answer this, yes they understand, seems they dont care much, or have underestimate it.

Quoteclearly you dont understand the risk because you can carry the virus even if you're not sick, and infect people who will get sick and die. you can throw a fit like a child and demand the government give you answers, but you yourself just said the government doesn't understand the economy, so i don't know what you expect.

I dont demand answers. I demand to not stop -or to not try to stop- the world cause of a damn sickness we dont know much yet, that doesnt seem that much lethal, without any timeline, without being able to give specific answers. You cant stop the world and say "We ll see ..." !

Also you read the bold text too. I have nothing more to add.

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on March 12, 2020, 04:40:16 AM

Quote from: minimal.impact on March 12, 2020, 04:02:59 AM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on March 12, 2020, 12:18:50 AM
Audio From Two Italian Physicians In The Heart Of The Crisis https://files.catbox.moe/3ns6c1.mp4
...
A man wearing a surgical mask stabbed an Asian man in Brooklyn, New York, more than a dozen times over the weekend, reported the New York Post.
...
Covid-19-related hate crimes
...
C19 is completely being used as political weapon in the states...
CDC sabotaged tests...
purposely allowed for infections spreading...
...
Panic in the streets...
Shutdowns...
Shortages...
Avoid All Social Activities...
...
Deadly Viral "Weapon of Mass Distraction" Effecting Society Unleashed...
...
Wacist
...

When comes the hysteria/conspiracy fueled conceptual C19 tape release?

good idea have to manually make c19 tape from c32...

Not a bad idea. Or at least no worse than any other idea. Might consider having it curated by an appropriate label. Malignant? Line-up the usual suspects- Sickness, Bacillus, Plague Mother... and, of course, Pig Molester.

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 18, 2020, 04:00:52 PM
Bacillus

Been thinking this aswell!

Also just had to cancel a trip in April/May. Cunt.

Bacillus posted on IG that he is already working on something - his last tape Anti Vaxxer is straight crushing

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 18, 2020, 12:01:50 AM

Quote from: DSOL on March 16, 2020, 08:38:25 PM
my 91 year grandmother has just been confirmed to have COVID-19

today is her birthday - tried to call her and my father told me the news

good luck with you gran, sorry about that

thanks - she is currently isolated - no one can visit or anything

I'm really sorry to hear that. Hoping for a quick recovery

Quote from: FallOfNature on March 18, 2020, 04:15:08 PM

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 18, 2020, 04:00:52 PM
Bacillus

Been thinking this aswell!

Also just had to cancel a trip in April/May. Cunt.

Same. Had two shows booked for late March and interstate early April meant to debut a new project. Have had to cancel both.

Mayhem is on.  6.077 dead people in  Italy.

Quebec & Ontario are shutting down all non-essential services/businesses. Many were already closed prior to this. Now only grocery stores, pharmacies, etc, (EDIT: And the postal services!) will be open (and with reduced hours).

Quote from: W.K. on March 24, 2020, 01:21:41 AM

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 23, 2020, 10:23:38 PM
Mayhem is on.  6.077 dead people in  Italy.

You are going to blow past China at this rate. Stay strong!

Netherlands finally getting some lazy measures but we are still feeling entitled expecting not to get hit as hard as other countries because we are Dutch.

US is going to get fucked too with it's obesity rate, blockheads, lying politicians and failing healthcare.

US is actually projected blowing past China & Italy with all the forementioned reasons potentially increasing death rates.

Just watched a telly show tonight about how things are in Italy. It's a fucking war zone. I think it was seventeen doctors dead, and more medical staff getting sick. If Dante were alive today he'd be hurriedly re-writing.

Down here, our political leaders are demonstrating their inability to organise a piss-up in a brewery, day after day. Pathetic leadership. Not to mention the large number of nongs in the public who don't give a rat's and think they're fucking invulnerable or something. We are fucked and getting fucked-er.

There's not going to be a "normal" to go back to once this subsides.

Quote from: W.K. on March 24, 2020, 01:21:41 AM

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 23, 2020, 10:23:38 PM
Mayhem is on.  6.077 dead people in  Italy.

You are going to blow past China at this rate. Stay strong!

Netherlands finally getting some lazy measures but we are still feeling entitled expecting not to get hit as hard as other countries because we are Dutch.

US is going to get fucked too with it's obesity rate, blockheads, lying politicians and failing healthcare.

I think we already did.
Only good new is my family doctor survived. It was very quick for him, now he is convalescent in another hospital.

Still "small" numbers here in Portugal, compared to others, but shit is growing fast... By the end of last week we reached 1K infected, now we're at 2360 infected.
Saw some reports from Italy and that's really fucked up. Spain is very close to the same I think.

EU, and the world really, slept on it while China was in major problems. Now we see the result.

(https://www.noisewiki.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1380)

https://youtu.be/4lwcxBstSt4

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2020.03/article/5e7b3da885f540148344b6f2.JPG)
Spain overtakes China virus toll with 3,434 deaths - government
Spain has now surpassed China in its number of fatalities due to the Covid-19 pandemic. The latest government tally puts the number of deaths at 3,434.

The Spanish health ministry said it has registered 738 new coronavirus deaths since Tuesday. The overall number of cases in the southern European nation has soared to 47,610, from 39,673 the day before.

There have been 3,281 coronavirus death on mainland China so far, according to official statistics.

The country, where the global outbreak started, has managed to quash the Covid-19 epidemic with tight quarantine measures. It still gets its share of new cases of the disease though, authorities say, as it imports them from other nations.

Meanwhile, Spain is not the only European country to top China in the sad statistics of fatalities. The death toll in Italy surpassed that of China last week as the infection overwhelmed its health system. It has 6,820 reported fatalities so far.

Spain is also struggling to deal with the health crisis. Madrid has had to repurpose the giant ice rink of the Palacio de Hielo as a storage facility for the bodies that city morgues have no capacity to collect and bury.

The Madrid metropolitan area, where the outbreak initially started in Spain, has the most cases of any Spanish region. The Basque Country in the north has also been hit hard.

Researchers throughout the world are working on several vaccines that would help curb the pandemic, though they are all still months away from being tested and approved.
https://www.rt.com/news/484046-spain-more-death-toll-china/

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2020.03/article/5e7a28a52030276b631e2518.jpg)
Morgue on ice: Spain uses Madrid ice rink as makeshift mortuary to cope with world's 3rd-highest Covid-19 death toll

Spanish authorities have been forced to use a Madrid ice rink as a makeshift morgue on ice to cope with the soaring death toll from coronavirus in the country, which is currently the 3rd-highest in the world.

Spain have recorded nearly 2,700 deaths from the disease in the country, and have resorted to desperate measures to deal with the rising body count.

In the country's capital, the Palacio de Hielo (Ice Palace) ice rink is usually used for skating, hockey and curling but has since been transformed into a morgue next to a specially-converted hospital for patients infected with Covid-19.

Spain has the fourth-highest number of confirmed coronavirus cases in the world at 39,673, behind Italy, China and the US respectively.

In the last 24 hours, the number of dead has increased by 514, bringing the official total to 2,696, the third-highest number of casualties, behind China and Italy.

Around 80 percent of the Madrid population is expected to be infected by the disease, and regional authorities described the "temporary and extraordinary measure" of converting the ice rink as being designed to "lessen the pain of the families of the victims and the situation that's being recorded in Madrid's hospitals."

https://www.rt.com/sport/483969-spain-ice-rink-morgue-covid-19/

'That's when all hell broke loose': Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/25/health/coronavirus-covid-hospitals/index.html

Italy gives contradictive signals and don't do the necessary checks.

Crazy fake news add background noise. More dead every day, a couple of nurses killed themselves. It is getting totally out of control.

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 26, 2020, 07:07:51 PM
Italy gives contradictive signals and don't do the necessary checks.

Crazy fake news add background noise. More dead every day, a couple of nurses killed themselves. It is getting totally out of control.

Suicide and depression is the next big problem related to covid.
Highly increment of cases is just behind the corner

The psychological impacts will be immense.

https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1243367546272669702?s=04

Quote from: Stipsi on March 27, 2020, 11:37:15 AM

Quote from: tiny_tove on March 26, 2020, 07:07:51 PM
Italy gives contradictive signals and don't do the necessary checks.

Crazy fake news add background noise. More dead every day, a couple of nurses killed themselves. It is getting totally out of control.

Suicide and depression is the next big problem related to covid.
Highly increment of cases is just behind the corner

PTSD nation. Not kidding.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

Congrats on becoming the new epicentre!!

Quote from: holy ghost on March 29, 2020, 10:51:21 PM
Congrats on becoming the new epicentre!!

That happens when you actually start testing way more than any other country.

Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:45 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

More fake news from the failing New York Times.


More seriously though. Most of the stuff I've read, which admittedly has to the best of my knowledge not been sourced from Facebook or Twitter, has suggested that for the most part Fauci's opinions are valued by most ends of the political spectrum. Though presumably less by the apparent Far Right. Perhaps a video getting retweeted 1500 times is newsworthy, I couldn't say.

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 30, 2020, 05:02:26 PM

Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:45 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

More fake news from the failing New York Times.


More seriously though. Most of the stuff I've read, which admittedly has to the best of my knowledge not been sourced from Facebook or Twitter, has suggested that for the most part Fauci's opinions are valued by most ends of the political spectrum. Though presumably less by the apparent Far Right. Perhaps a video getting retweeted 1500 times is newsworthy, I couldn't say.

honestly "the far right", anti-vaxxers and other groups who have apparently taken being wrong on the internet their main mission in life deserve to catch corona and i hope they try to tough it out without any help, as their worldview says they should.

Quote from: host body on March 30, 2020, 05:52:51 PM

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 30, 2020, 05:02:26 PM

Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:45 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

More fake news from the failing New York Times.


More seriously though. Most of the stuff I've read, which admittedly has to the best of my knowledge not been sourced from Facebook or Twitter, has suggested that for the most part Fauci's opinions are valued by most ends of the political spectrum. Though presumably less by the apparent Far Right. Perhaps a video getting retweeted 1500 times is newsworthy, I couldn't say.

honestly "the far right", anti-vaxxers and other groups who have apparently taken being wrong on the internet their main mission in life deserve to catch corona and i hope they try to tough it out without any help, as their worldview says they should.

How tolerant and reasonable of you.

Quote from: host body on March 30, 2020, 05:52:51 PM

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 30, 2020, 05:02:26 PM

Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:45 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

More fake news from the failing New York Times.


More seriously though. Most of the stuff I've read, which admittedly has to the best of my knowledge not been sourced from Facebook or Twitter, has suggested that for the most part Fauci's opinions are valued by most ends of the political spectrum. Though presumably less by the apparent Far Right. Perhaps a video getting retweeted 1500 times is newsworthy, I couldn't say.

honestly "the far right", anti-vaxxers and other groups who have apparently taken being wrong on the internet their main mission in life deserve to catch corona and i hope they try to tough it out without any help, as their worldview says they should.

Pretty inaccurate take from the NYT (surprise). For one, most the far-right has abandoned Trump or have become critical of him, so they wouldn't be running cover for a conspiracy involving Fauci. The idea that the media continues to push of Trump being this sort of threatening quasi-fascist is quite laughable, he has become a pretty stale and controlled version of campaign Trump. This talk of usurpation would come from irrelevant boomer MAGApedes. Modern journalism is a pyramid scheme. You find a couple tweets from QAnon and run with a story to paint the entire right wing as looney. Its a non-story.

Coronavirus has made for pretty amusing political discourse, at least from my point of view. Liberals/leftist jumped on the opportunity, practically praying for doom in hopes that it would hurt Trump. Yet, his approval ratings are higher than ever now. It's funny because the basis of their premise that the scale in the US of the pandemic could have been preventable with the right action is true. Its just that the action necessary to lessen the impact are things they are completely against. The pandemic is a direct result of rootless globalism where borders cease to matter. Countries like China are treated like real players instead of third world shit holes. If our country wasn't looted of its manufacturing power, we wouldn't have to rely so much on bat soup consuming countries. In the current state of affairs, we let just anyone waltz into our country. Had the borders been completely closed earlier we wouldn't be seeing these numbers. In fact as of a week ago my friend was telling me that in France, Macron still hasn't shut down the borders stating that the virus has no nationality. Fair enough, but the carriers of the virus do. All the points about Medicare For All are rendered mute once you hit a certain infection rate. Medicare or not, the healthcare system will be overloaded either way and thats where you see most deaths occur.

This is absolutely magical. In Sweden, there is a massive outpouring of hate for a man called Anders Tegnell, who as Statsepidemiolog (state epidemiologist) is responsible for Sweden's COVID-19 policy. The attitude is the same as that of the quoted "far-rightists" in the article quoted above, and established Swedish media is making the exact same argument as the New York Times: people should trust the experts, the Far Right is trying to undermine science, etc. The hilarious part is that Tegnell's line, held with autistic and scientific precision through this whole affair, has been literally the same as Trump's original one (even slightly laxer): this is sort of like a flu, the economy must be weighed against the actual danger of the virus (which is seen as limited), no too radical action should be taken, etc.

This bizarre situation has, once again hilariously, led to Swedish New York Times equivalent Dagens Nyheter publishing very excited, angry criticism of the government's policies - which in turn caused other parts of Swedish media to accuse Dagens Nyheter of populism and an unscientific attitude. This becomes even more amusing since Dagens Nyheter has literally the same perspective as most Swedish "Far Right" online publications - i.e. that the Swedish government and its experts don't know what they are doing and are playing an extremely dangerous game by not responding forcefully enough to the novel Corona virus.

Obviously, this is simply a question of who holds power (Dagens Nyheter is simply riffing off of NYT). Even so, it is really, really funny that if COVID-19 would prove less dangerous than at first assumed, then the "winners" of the controversy would be Trump, Bolsonaro, the Swedish Left-Wing government and basically no-one else (or perhaps Holland is still in the chill-out camp). If it is extremely dangerous, and lax policies lead to disaster (as seems at least very possible, considering the development in Sweden the past few days), then the government of Sweden and probably also Bolsonaro are pretty much fucked (Trump may pull through, given the fact that he's changed his stance so radically - still, it may cost him reelection). The winning side will then consist of the New York Times, the American Left wing twitterati, most of the European Far Right, and a large number of governments across the world - democratic or not.

As a side note, the "trust the experts" meme seems retarded if you don't have a fairly united global expertise. Which we really, really don't on the question of COVID-19. In Sweden, the expert opinion is that all governments that close schools or borders do so because of populist pressure, and that the damage to the economy from shutting down too much is way worse than any consequence of COVID-19. In the US, this exact opinion is apparently seen as "far right".

Quote from: Yrjö-Koskinen on April 03, 2020, 10:22:11 PM
As a side note, the "trust the experts" meme seems retarded if you don't have a fairly united global expertise. Which we really, really don't on the question of COVID-19. In Sweden, the expert opinion is that all governments that close schools or borders do so because of populist pressure, and that the damage to the economy from shutting down too much is way worse than any consequence of COVID-19. In the US, this exact opinion is apparently seen as "far right".

Nail on the head, "Trust the experts" is a retarded meme. Who are the experts? The WHO, which downplayed the virus at first due to the sway China has over them. The media? When stories of the virus first hit, the mainstream media ran articles telling everyone not to worry - the real virus is racism and the flu kills millions every year. People on Twitter have compiled videos of NYC officials in February telling everyone to go about their normal lives and attend the crowded Lunar New Year celebrations, reassuring the public that an outbreak would never happen. Look at them now. World experts are politicized and bought off like many other factors of society. The idea that lab coats are these moral beings that don't bow to greed and politics is ridiculous.

American political discourse lacks the nuance to even properly engage with ideas. The left/right divide here is fake and purposely controlled in order to avoid issues of culture, the approved topic of debate is superficial economic policy. The media labelling people like Bill Mitchell and Charlie Kirk "far right" is done as to seal off legitimate dissident ideas away from debate.

Quote from: sunandsteel on April 03, 2020, 11:45:33 PM
American political discourse lacks the nuance to even properly engage with ideas. The left/right divide here is fake and purposely controlled in order to avoid issues of culture, the approved topic of debate is superficial economic policy. The media labelling people like Bill Mitchell and Charlie Kirk "far right" is done as to seal off legitimate dissident ideas away from debate.

Unfortunately, all we end up with is despair when it comes to COVID-19 coverage. In the case of mongoloid wars in the Middle East, uncontrolled immigration to Europe from the same Middle East or any number of other issues, it is usually comparatively simple to decide that/whether "established media" is lying on behalf of any given set of interest groups. This is not at all the case here (unless George Soros is SHORTING EVERYTHING), and without the usual interest groups or ideologies involved, we're basically stuck with reality. Which isn't available at this time, due to politicization and the slow nature of actual scientific research.

Perhaps we could all, left and right, just unite around the idea that Charlie Kirk is a dick, and take it from there.

- If they dont find a cure soon, they will not be able to continue all these restrictions for much longer than some months more -maybe- , and then ... all this mess, for what ?

- People who die, the vast majority of them, is old with very bad health already. They would die in 1-5 years anyway, it was matter of time, till a bad flu or anything hit them with deadly outcome. When all this ends, the following years number of deaths will be lower than before the crisis. People who would normaly be included in those future statistics are dying now, altogether. That goes for countries that their health system hasnt collapsed like Italy's .

- At the end, we have 2 gov of different countries, let's say 10 million people each. One has 1000-1500 deaths and GDP fell by 6% , the other has 200 deaths and GDP fell by 20% . Who went better ? Any serious gov would choose the first option. But they cant know for sure how many deaths will be, and if the health system collapses. So they play safe, and follow what most do, and what doctors and scientists advice. But a doctor's duty is to save even a single life if possible, a gov's duty is to weight all the decisions ...

- I have seen videos with doctors / nurses, from inside the hospitals, dancing, clapping their hands for YouTube likes, coming only from China -at the very beginning- , Iran, Italy, Spain. Yesterday i saw from New York. Hm, be prepared there ! I see coffins comin , a lot ! Seriously, think you have recently lost a family member in that hospital and you see those doctors / nurses dancing for YouTube ! Dont know if that's a bad sign of a disaster coming or a symptom of an already collapsed system.

https://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2020/CSIRO-begins-testing-Covid-19-vaccines

https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/Health/Infectious-dieases-coronavirus/Our-response/Understanding-the-virus

Quote from: sunandsteel on April 03, 2020, 11:45:33 PM
Nail on the head, "Trust the experts" is a retarded meme. Who are the experts? The WHO, which downplayed the virus at first due to the sway China has over them. The media? When stories of the virus first hit, the mainstream media ran articles telling everyone not to worry - the real virus is racism and the flu kills millions every year. People on Twitter have compiled videos of NYC officials in February telling everyone to go about their normal lives and attend the crowded Lunar New Year celebrations, reassuring the public that an outbreak would never happen. Look at them now. World experts are politicized and bought off like many other factors of society. The idea that lab coats are these moral beings that don't bow to greed and politics is ridiculous.

American political discourse lacks the nuance to even properly engage with ideas. The left/right divide here is fake and purposely controlled in order to avoid issues of culture, the approved topic of debate is superficial economic policy. The media labelling people like Bill Mitchell and Charlie Kirk "far right" is done as to seal off legitimate dissident ideas away from debate.

The standard "protocol" Hegelian Dialectic of manipulate, divide, conquer the masses especially with media fear porn is classic strategy.
Left/Right system tends being 2 cheeks of the same ass... "Control"
We are under total martial law now in much of the states, yet they are just using official more friendly name games.
Major Metro areas are completely under stay inside lockdown for typical citizens.
There will be rioting, looting, & total chimpouts as is the expected natural response for some.
They want 18+ months of "lockdown" & release psychopath killers/rapists into the streets,
yet they arrest average people for daring not conforming with the new social rules...
This is all a purposeful strategic recipe for disaster, sabotage, & subterfuge.
Completely shutting down the economy will be far worse than any Corona Virus.
We are facing worst economic depression in history of country soon with food shortages.
All under the farce guise that they care so much about citizens.

Quote from: PuddysJacket on April 03, 2020, 01:08:14 PM

Quote from: host body on March 30, 2020, 05:52:51 PM

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 30, 2020, 05:02:26 PM

Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:45 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

More fake news from the failing New York Times.


More seriously though. Most of the stuff I've read, which admittedly has to the best of my knowledge not been sourced from Facebook or Twitter, has suggested that for the most part Fauci's opinions are valued by most ends of the political spectrum. Though presumably less by the apparent Far Right. Perhaps a video getting retweeted 1500 times is newsworthy, I couldn't say.

honestly "the far right", anti-vaxxers and other groups who have apparently taken being wrong on the internet their main mission in life deserve to catch corona and i hope they try to tough it out without any help, as their worldview says they should.

How tolerant and reasonable of you.

it's just poetic justice, buddy

Still agree the most with Theodore's takes here. Also the earlier one from this thread about advising high-risk groups to quarantine themselves instead of trying to force everybody to stay home. Future developments in Sweden will be an example of this. Apparently there was a survey here in Germany asking about support for the current measures (which to be fair are not that strict for the time being). I've only heard from it on the radio so I'm not sure how accurate it is but the overwhelming support (like 90% or something) pro government restricting freedoms like walking and hanging out outside seems scary.
Also this slowing the spread stuff is pissing me off - if you quarantine high-risk groups, who cares about how fast the virus spreads amongst those getting ill who don't need to be hospitalized? Social distancing is fine and should be practiced anyways (who wants to fill their lungs with some random stranger's breath?!) Sweden has pretty based takes here since the economic damage especially in the US from all these safety measures is already a disaster and the resulting deaths from that will far outweigh anything this covid bullcrap could've ever done.

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on April 04, 2020, 10:29:25 PM
Still agree the most with Theodore's takes here. Also the earlier one from this thread about advising high-risk groups to quarantine themselves instead of trying to force everybody to stay home.

The problem is that even healthy, young people if unlucky could need intensive care. Around 20% of infected need hospital care iirc, so even if we just made everyone over 70, everyone overweight, all smokers, people with existing illnesses, asthmatics etc. Stay home until we get a vaccine the health care system would still get overwhelmed.

It's a shitty situation and it's not getting better in a long time,months in the least but likely even longer. We're gonna have to just let people die at some point.

In England, a 19 year old and a 13 year old have died from the virus. No underlying health conditions. It is definitely not only deadly for the elderly & it sounds absolutely awful to endure even if you recover.

At least one notable active industrial musician has contracted the virus. PROTECT POWER ELECTRONICS AT ALL COST!!!!!

I finally sat down with the Imperial College report that changed the policy of the UK (and probably the US too), and it's not very encouraging reading. Basically it says that you need to shut most things down, and that "mitigation strategies" will overload the health care system eight times over (literally). At the same time, it says that shutting things down won't work because the vast majority of people are bound to be infected sooner or later anyhow, and that once you open stuff up everything will creep back towards disaster mode again. In the final analysis, the report seems to be advocating a kind of pulsating shut-down going on for months on end, where you close schools and quarantine people once a certain amount of infections have been detected in a certain area, and then open things back up when the number goes down. This would then need to go on until a vaccine is found or until "herd immunity" is achieved. Which would be in about 18 months to two years.

As a side note, this whole idea that young and healthy people are affected too is really quite pointless. This is true if you count from the hospital side of things, much like it is true that you may become a millionaire by buying lottery tickets because several people have become millionaires by buying lottery tickets. It really has zero relevance and less for policy ideas and even individual risk assessment. It's basically propaganda to keep young people from copulating themselves into an infected state and then coughing on their grandparents.

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on April 04, 2020, 10:29:25 PM
Still agree the most with Theodore's takes here. Also the earlier one from this thread about advising high-risk groups to quarantine themselves instead of trying to force everybody to stay home. Future developments in Sweden will be an example of this. Apparently there was a survey here in Germany asking about support for the current measures (which to be fair are not that strict for the time being). I've only heard from it on the radio so I'm not sure how accurate it is but the overwhelming support (like 90% or something) pro government restricting freedoms like walking and hanging out outside seems scary.
Also this slowing the spread stuff is pissing me off - if you quarantine high-risk groups, who cares about how fast the virus spreads amongst those getting ill who don't need to be hospitalized? Social distancing is fine and should be practiced anyways (who wants to fill their lungs with some random stranger's breath?!) Sweden has pretty based takes here since the economic damage especially in the US from all these safety measures is already a disaster and the resulting deaths from that will far outweigh anything this covid bullcrap could've ever done.

Well, Sweden has fucked everything up by managing to get COVID-19 infections into approximately 1/3 of all residential homes/Wohnheime for senior citizens in the entire country. This will probably mean circus tier fatality rates in the coming few weeks. On the other hand, this is mainly because the government of Sweden didn't ban visitors for these facilities until quite recently (and generally has done nothing to actually "protect" high risk groups), and doesn't really say much about the general idea of soft-handed containment.

As things stand now it seems that it would probably have been better to:
a) spare the People's Republic style control measures for protecting the "high risk groups"
b) allow the rest of us to keep drinking and infecting ourselves
c) spend ginormous amount of cash on expanding health care to meet the violent peaks of infection, rather than ruining the world/Western economy just to try and keep everybody healthy despite the fact that we know this to be impossible.

It's just terrible that Sweden is one of only few examples of countries trying to implement this agenda, given that they have already failed in so many respects that the theory will never get a fair hearing.

A Vomir nation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52145140 (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52145140)

dream of claustration becoming real - hope it will stay like that after the virus - less people less problem around

Almost 4000 official deaths in the UK this week I think it's impossible to call it anything other than a political failure even the UK PM himself has the virus and his partner who is pregnant is showing symptoms. Why a country like the USA would follow UK policy or advice is beyond me I really don't understand. Whatever NY is going through I hope it is acting as a warning to the rest of the US. At least Italy and Spain are seeming to stabilise in recent days.There is no guarantee of a developing immunity or that in time the virus will not mutate. Korea stopped it by testing alone so maybe they have given the best example. Bizarrely or not I am listening to some great Italian film soundtracks amongst other records during social distancing some good things on sale here https://www.quartetrecords.com/

Coronavirus: what is ivermectin aka Ivomec?
The readily available anti-parasitic drug has proven effective against Covid-19 in vitro, as well as against other viruses, although human studies are ongoing.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1246352062490632192/6qEcwqxT?format=jpg&name=600x314)
Ivermectin was first developed in 1975 and came into medical use in 1981. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines.

It is currently used as a treatment for strongyloidiasis, a parasitic disease caused by roundworms that affects an estimated 30 million to 100 million people worldwide. Ivermectin is effective in destoying the parasites in the intestine.

It is also to alleviate the symptoms of onchocerciasis, or river blindness, which can lead to severe itching, bumps under the skin, and blindness. In the case of river blindness, for which there is no vaccine, ivermectin is not a cure but has been proven to kill the larvae if not the adult worms. It is administered to patients once every six to 12 months.  

Ivermectin is also used to treat head lice, scabies and other diseases caused by roundworms and whipworms globally. It is available on the market in drugs including Ivexterm, Ivergot, Dermoper IV, Detebencil, Evanix, Iver P and Ivertal and usually administered in pill form, although it is also manufactured as drops, creams and injectable solutions.
Covid-19 ivermectin tests on humans needed to test effectiveness

The study from Monash University showed that a single dose of Ivermectin could stop the coronavirus growing in cell culture -- effectively eradicating all genetic material of the virus within two days.https://www.cnbctv18.com/healthcare/anti-parasitic-drug-killed-coronavirus-within-48-hours-in-lab-5623651.htm ...
Anti-parasitic drug killed coronavirus within 48 hours in lab

Ivermectin is an FDA-approved anti-parasitic drug that has also been shown to be effective in vitro against a broad range of viruses including HIV, dengue, influenza and zika virus.
Ivomec also comes in Apple flavor!
https://en.as.com/en/2020/04/04/other_sports/1586014265_026414.html

https://steemkr.com/health/@pomeline/ivermectin-a-possible-treatment-of-coronaviruses-and-ncov

Quote from: Bob on April 06, 2020, 01:03:00 AM
Almost 4000 official deaths in the UK this week I think it's impossible to call it anything other than a political failure even the UK PM himself has the virus and his partner who is pregnant is showing symptoms. Why a country like the USA would follow UK policy or advice is beyond me I really don't understand. Whatever NY is going through I hope it is acting as a warning to the rest of the US. At least Italy and Spain are seeming to stabilise in recent days.There is no guarantee of a developing immunity or that in time the virus will not mutate. Korea stopped it by testing alone so maybe they have given the best example. Bizarrely or not I am listening to some great Italian film soundtracks amongst other records during social distancing some good things on sale here https://www.quartetrecords.com/

How can a virus which has affected people globally in different political regimes be a political failure, when the government has made no political decisions other than to follow the advice of its medical advisors. If there is any cause for using the term 'failure' it relates then those advisors  decisions. I'm not aware of the USA having a particularly coherent approach, or following the UK. You then talk of Italy and Spain, yet the UK are I think more or less following the same restrictions and actions. Of course there is no guarantee of immunity, but again the advice is that this will be likely. As for mutation, again no guarantee, in science you have no guarantees only  probabilities. Korea seems to be a special case, not just testing but lockdowns and immediate closing of public spaces, meanwhile in the UK people continue to ignore the lockdown. So I think you are right they may be a very good example, but how do we enforce the social distancing. And we started with insufficient testing facilities, unlike other countries. That maybe is a political mistake, but to make the case you would need to compare the outcomes where testing was available. The German case is interesting compared to Italy. "RKI criticised that too many people without symptoms were tested."...checkout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Germany#Testing.  Add to that the arm chair generals, a media used to making the most extreme responses to events, crackpots burning 5G towers and drinking cows urine...  The causes and correct responses may well be complex, maybe political, or social, or bad science, analysis will show, or we can blame the politicians, 5G networks, The Devil ... punishment from God etc. or greater freedom in western countries, more open media... myself I blame it on the boogie.  

Sweden isn't following with any global lockdown as advised by Bill Gates & they don't have an increased mortality rate or packed hospitals.

BTW someone personally knew that smoked 3 packs a day since the 70s & had lung cancer is now on the death toll from CV19...
He was in seriously bad condition long before this recent Global Panicdemic.
There is something seriously wrong with all of this media fear porn medical martial law.

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on April 06, 2020, 06:10:36 PM
Sweden isn't following with any global lockdown as advised by Bill Gates & they don't have an increased mortality rate or packed hospitals.

Sweden was up like 400 cases from the 4th to the 5th plus an increase of deaths by 30 in the same time period...so they are definitely more impacted now. 19th in the world in total numbers. Just a matter of time...

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on April 06, 2020, 06:10:36 PM
Sweden isn't following with any global lockdown as advised by Bill Gates & they don't have an increased mortality rate or packed hospitals.

Making comparisons is difficult.

Sweden 7,332 cases  502 deaths  pop 10.2 m   death rate 6.84

Norway 5,760 cases 74 deaths  pop 5.2                            1.28

Finland 1,927 cases 28 deaths  pop 5.4                             1.45

Denmark 4,647 cases 179 deaths  pop 5.73                       3.85

If my poor maths is right...

Sweden does have an increased mortality, but the theory behind the policy is that the disease is more or less bound to spread through at least half of the population, and that too stringent action simply pushes the problem ahead. The Imperial College study that changed Britain's policy says pretty much the same thing - as things stand, there is a pretty broad scientific consensus that you can't really stop the spread for good without vaccine or some new medication. The argument for lockdown is that it can slow the spread down, so the health care system isn't "overwhelmed", but in essence no-one seems to believe you can actually prevent most people from being infected.

If any of this is true remains to be seen.

Also Sweden has good universal heathcare, not an NHS deliberately near-destroyed by the very people patronisingly telling us to 'save the NHS' and sending us to our rooms without any supper for sitting in the sun for 5 minutes, nor whatever hilariously deranged cyberpunk healthcare nightmare you guys have going on in the USA.

Quote from: Yrjö-Koskinen on April 06, 2020, 11:37:11 PM
Sweden does have an increased mortality, but the theory behind the policy is that the disease is more or less bound to spread through at least half of the population, and that too stringent action simply pushes the problem ahead. The Imperial College study that changed Britain's policy says pretty much the same thing - as things stand, there is a pretty broad scientific consensus that you can't really stop the spread for good without vaccine or some new medication. The argument for lockdown is that it can slow the spread down, so the health care system isn't "overwhelmed", but in essence no-one seems to believe you can actually prevent most people from being infected.

If any of this is true remains to be seen.

I was under the impression that part of the policy was to push the problem ahead, as hospitals have lower occupancy rates in summer, field hospitals can be built, supplies of ventilators increased and other equipment, better faster testing etc. I don't think it was ever posited, certainly in the UK, that the epidemic can be prevented as no vaccines yet exist and trials of remedial drugs take months to complete.

Quote from: JLIAT on April 06, 2020, 07:13:47 PM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on April 06, 2020, 06:10:36 PM
Sweden isn't following with any global lockdown as advised by Bill Gates & they don't have an increased mortality rate or packed hospitals.

Making comparisons is difficult.

Sweden 7,332 cases  502 deaths  pop 10.2 m   death rate 6.84

Norway 5,760 cases 74 deaths  pop 5.2                            1.28

Finland 1,927 cases 28 deaths  pop 5.4                             1.45

Denmark 4,647 cases 179 deaths  pop 5.73                       3.85

If my poor maths is right...

often missed in the discussion

Population

Sweden 10,23 million

Norway 5,37 milllion

Denmark 5,60 million

Finland 5,52 million

So much of the reporting outside of Scandinavia have missed this little fact.

Since we haven't really done extensive testing from day 1 in the nordic states, only statistics regarding the infection rate we have is how death statistics, and the problem with those is that they lag 10-20 days behind since it takes around two weeks on average for a person with a fatal case to die from the disease. Based on those statistics, Sweden is in a lot worse situation and its neighbours.

Quote from: Strömkarlen on April 07, 2020, 01:10:00 PM

Quote from: JLIAT on April 06, 2020, 07:13:47 PM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on April 06, 2020, 06:10:36 PM
Sweden isn't following with any global lockdown as advised by Bill Gates & they don't have an increased mortality rate or packed hospitals.

Making comparisons is difficult.

Sweden 7,332 cases  502 deaths  pop 10.2 m   death rate 6.84

Norway 5,760 cases 74 deaths  pop 5.2                            1.28

Finland 1,927 cases 28 deaths  pop 5.4                             1.45

Denmark 4,647 cases 179 deaths  pop 5.73                       3.85

If my poor maths is right...

often missed in the discussion

Population

Sweden 10,23 million

Norway 5,37 milllion

Denmark 5,60 million

Finland 5,52 million

So much of the reporting outside of Scandinavia have missed this little fact.

I've given the populations above and the percentage of deaths per infection.

"The University College London team says keeping pupils off has little impact, even with other lockdown measures.
But a scientist whose work has informed the UK strategy insists school closures play an important role."

Our local primary school, now closed, as an example, not the kids in school, but adults taking them to and from, collect in large numbers, many of them look like grandparents, I wonder if that was part of the study.

Quote from: JLIAT on April 07, 2020, 11:18:40 AM

Quote from: Yrjö-Koskinen on April 06, 2020, 11:37:11 PM
Sweden does have an increased mortality, but the theory behind the policy is that the disease is more or less bound to spread through at least half of the population, and that too stringent action simply pushes the problem ahead. The Imperial College study that changed Britain's policy says pretty much the same thing - as things stand, there is a pretty broad scientific consensus that you can't really stop the spread for good without vaccine or some new medication. The argument for lockdown is that it can slow the spread down, so the health care system isn't "overwhelmed", but in essence no-one seems to believe you can actually prevent most people from being infected.

If any of this is true remains to be seen.

I was under the impression that part of the policy was to push the problem ahead, as hospitals have lower occupancy rates in summer, field hospitals can be built, supplies of ventilators increased and other equipment, better faster testing etc. I don't think it was ever posited, certainly in the UK, that the epidemic can be prevented as no vaccines yet exist and trials of remedial drugs take months to complete.

That's it.  It's attempting to control the stream rather than it overwhelming in chaos and unpredictability.  That's pretty much what all these actions are, and that is no small thing.  The overused "flatten the curve" deal.  One of the bigger questions in coming weeks and months, at least as I see it, is how are the doctors and nurses going to be in May?  How many are going to be sick?  Dead?  Overworked, both physically and mentally, and need time away?  The next shortage is going to be personnel, and you can't pay your way out of that shortage of expertise.

Medical staff the world over are already flat out fucked. I think Marco mentioned a couple of nurses in Italy committed suicide? That profession was already overloaded to capacity, especially in hell holes like the US where they just don't give a rat's about the health system in general.

And because that's never enough, they're copping abuse from the public, at least down here, where workers in scrubs have been abused while they've been trying to get to and from work. Even pharmacy staff are getting spat on and threatened.

It was always a shitty job, now it's reached the nadir of shit. All very well giving them rounds of applause and feel-good crap like that but those people are going to be burnt out to the depths of hell.

Yes no more suicidesthat I know,  but medical staff are currently those who are getting more sick at the moment.

Thereis a slight improvements in former red zones, but it's moving in other areas.

Finally gloves and masks are available which were totally unavailable until last week.

Left and right are blaming each other, as government and regions, while they are all stupid.

Quote from: tiny_tove on April 08, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
Left and right are blaming each other, as government and regions, while they are all stupid.

Sticky this^ to the top.

Oh wait, I forgot what I'd come here to do, which is to weigh in with my exceedingly in demand $.02. So okay then-

I hereby declare, that I haven't got a fucking clue.

Thank you.

https://youtu.be/05-jbrHRmrs

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on April 08, 2020, 05:21:18 PM
Oh wait, I forgot what I'd come here to do, which is to weigh in with my exceedingly in demand $.02. So okay then-

I hereby declare, that I haven't got a fucking clue.

Thank you.

Honestly, I can say the same.  I feel like the things that news/officials told everyone not to do only a few weeks ago are now being promoted, and that the situation is simultaneously getting better and worse.

Quote from: Yrjö-Koskinen on April 06, 2020, 11:37:11 PM
I was under the impression that part of the policy was to push the problem ahead, as hospitals have lower occupancy rates in summer, field hospitals can be built, supplies of ventilators increased and other equipment, better faster testing etc. I don't think it was ever posited, certainly in the UK, that the epidemic can be prevented as no vaccines yet exist and trials of remedial drugs take months to complete.

Absolutely, but my comment was about the high number of COVID-19 deaths in Sweden. Few of these are caused by any overload of the health care system (there are, after all, some restrictions which have "flattened the curve" to some degree). The argument being made in Sweden is that other countries will have the same number of deaths/capita - at least - before there is some cure/vaccine available, so it's stupid to close down half of the economy just to push those deaths ahead. It makes sense to a point, but might also be insane. It's all a matter of models...

Quote from: Cementimental on April 06, 2020, 11:52:44 PM
Also Sweden has good universal heathcare, not an NHS deliberately near-destroyed by the very people patronisingly telling us to 'save the NHS' and sending us to our rooms without any supper for sitting in the sun for 5 minutes, nor whatever hilariously deranged cyberpunk healthcare nightmare you guys have going on in the USA.

Swedish health care is somewhat overrated by the Anglo-Saxon left. It has huge problems, with long queues, efficiency problems and so on. I don't say that for ideological reasons - believe it or not I generally support "universal health care". Defense against disease is fundamentally a state matter of the same type as military defense, policing and border control. Given the explosion of restrictions in the world since COVID-19 came around, it is clear that everyone else thinks the same once the push comes to shove (no-one is calling for free choice and the market to handle the pandemic, much like no-one would call for those things to handle an invasion by the Chinese or whatever). Still, the Swedish health care system wouldn't be much of an explanation for low death rates even if Sweden had low death rates (which it doesn't).

The health system overload fear proving to be somewhat overated ! Since we dont have a cure to apply yet. For the most cases either your body will fight the virus or nothing will help much. It's a fight you fight alone. 90% mortality rate for those in intensive care ! https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/86101 . Dont know what's the general stats for the world, i doubt mortality rate for those in intensive care will be that high everywhere but i guess wont be much lower either.

Italy is re-opening several activities but is giving completely idiocy and contradictions. People are starting being morons and doctors are pushing to stay in anyway...

There are improvements, but this premature opening may turn into a disaster.

Many stores, elementary schools, daycares will be reopening May 4th and May 11th here in Quebec. They're saying April 19th was our peak with 997 new cases that day. 775 new cases today.

yeah we are a bunch of cobaye in this re open shit

So happy my grandparents decided to leave Italy and come to Australia after world war 2.

98 deaths in total for the whole country

Helps being a island far from the rest of the world.


Hope everyone else is safe and doing ok!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3EE7EMfXc&feature=emb_title

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on May 17, 2020, 08:28:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3EE7EMfXc&feature=emb_title

I don't know much about this Bill Gates / COVID / 5g conspiracy but how is reducing world population bad? It's the worst environmental and existential threat there is as of this day. Also if you're so against vaccines just don't take them?

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on May 17, 2020, 10:29:20 AM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on May 17, 2020, 08:28:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3EE7EMfXc&feature=emb_title

I don't know much about this Bill Gates / COVID / 5g conspiracy but how is reducing world population bad? It's the worst environmental and existential threat there is as of this day. Also if you're so against vaccines just don't take them?

I was thinking about this too. In general, reducing world population wouldn't be bad. If you think deeper, the reasons behind it might make a big difference. You can say this because of worries about the environment etc. Or, this is a bit more complicated, people like Bill Gates might indeed realise that an exploding world population is going to cause tons of problems, which will end with catastrophy in which he might loose all his wealth and power as well. So, he plans a bit more long term and wants to keep the population a bit lower, so that he can ensure his power and wealth.
As for vaccines, some vaccines are obligated, so not taking them is not an option. I'm not really against that, but it is a way in which companies can take power over the population, especially with how things go in a lot of countries these days, i.e. that governments like having done as much as possible by private companies.

I would hope that Bill Gates would be dead by the time the population explosion really catches up to us so I am not so sure about these points!

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on May 17, 2020, 10:29:20 AM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on May 17, 2020, 08:28:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3EE7EMfXc&feature=emb_title

I don't know much about this Bill Gates / COVID / 5g conspiracy but how is reducing world population bad? It's the worst environmental and existential threat there is as of this day. Also if you're so against vaccines just don't take them?

A reduction in the world population wouldn't mean much, with the same people still in power.

Can a sane person thoroughly explain the Bill Gates theory to me please?

Quote from: WCN on May 18, 2020, 07:39:00 PM
Can a sane person thoroughly explain the Bill Gates theory to me please?

No sane person can...

WW2 gives 70-85 million deaths, Covid so far +300,000 so Gates has got some way to go to beat Adolf &Co. And given this WW2 figure, not a blip in the population growth graph.

Ischaemic heart disease and stroke deaths 2016  25 million
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease claimed 3.0 million
Diabetes killed 1.6 million people in 2016
Road injuries killed 1.4 million people in 2016
Smoking (tobacco) 7.5 million....

So maybe giving the third world access to cars and cigarettes would be a better ploy?

Quote from: JLIAT on May 18, 2020, 07:53:45 PM

Quote from: WCN on May 18, 2020, 07:39:00 PM
Can a sane person thoroughly explain the Bill Gates theory to me please?

No sane person can...

WW2 gives 70-85 million deaths, Covid so far +300,000 so Gates has got some way to go to beat Adolf &Co. And given this WW2 figure, not a blip in the population growth graph.

Ischaemic heart disease and stroke deaths 2016  25 million
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease claimed 3.0 million
Diabetes killed 1.6 million people in 2016
Road injuries killed 1.4 million people in 2016
Smoking (tobacco) 7.5 million....

So maybe giving the third world access to cars and cigarettes would be a better ploy?

Again, I bring up life span. Number of deaths from _____ obviously does not effect world population. The only way to control world population is to stop births. Duration of life does not matter and birth rates spike after wars and whatnot.
Population would most likely be lower if ww2 never happened.

Quote from: WCN on May 18, 2020, 07:39:00 PM
Can a sane person thoroughly explain the Bill Gates theory to me please?

Well you know how email scammers will actually pretend to be Nigerian, and cook up the most unbelievable sob story possible, in order to make sure that only the most extremely gullible will reply to their emails?

Quote from: Cementimental on May 18, 2020, 09:26:20 PM

Quote from: WCN on May 18, 2020, 07:39:00 PM
Can a sane person thoroughly explain the Bill Gates theory to me please?

Well you know how email scammers will actually pretend to be Nigerian, and cook up the most unbelievable sob story possible, in order to make sure that only the most extremely gullible will reply to their emails?

There is a way in which this strategy is beautiful in its ingenuity.

With all respect to the elders -i have old parents too- i feel akward and wanna laugh everytime i hear on the news "The DEADLY virus killed two more today, an 89YO and a 92YO." ! Really ?

Re: Bill Gates : I heard that he wants to install microchips in our bodies to use them for cryptocurrency mining. - Haha, love it !

Quote from: Strangecross on May 18, 2020, 08:18:01 PM


Again, I bring up life span. Number of deaths from _____ obviously does not effect world population. The only way to control world population is to stop births. Duration of life does not matter and birth rates spike after wars and whatnot.
Population would most likely be lower if ww2 never happened.

I think the black death did have an impact, certainly in the UK. But controlling birth rates will effect population, as in the case of China. I see no spike in the population post WW2. Its maybe more complex, childbirth was once a big killer, families prior to WW2 in the UK were large, 9 siblings in my mothers family, with 2 dyeing from TB early on. Post WW2 much smaller families due not only to birth control and less child mortality, but the state looking after the elderly with pensions. And looking at predictions it seems the population is predicted to stop its exponential rise.

As for deaths from covid being far higher than published, certainly in some cases the published data looks odd, I think its only possible to know this in reviewing annual deaths, or so the experts say. (unlike the hysterical media, and conspiracy theorists) From my limited understanding its not the mortality rate of covid which was the real problem but the sudden impact on health services overwhelming them, that and its rapid spread given air travel. Some reporter tried to raise the panic of ships crews from china bringing in the disease, but it was pointed out that given the months it takes at sea, if they had the virus it would have come and gone...

Finally in this far too long reply, we in the UK had 2+ years of Brexit dominating the media, came Jan 2020 and we thought things would change, and they have!

The coronavirus?
THE fucking coronavirus?

LMAO!!!!
Alright. The coronavirus, hahahaha!!!
Yeah, well, my thoughts on the virus are non-existent.
More interested in economical and global ramifications.
I see this as an opportunity to fuck the value of the dollar in the ass. I see Asian markets raising tariffs.
I see Western countries getting pissed.
Could potentially lead to a third World War with nuclear weapons.

I see money markets going East. Europeans may have to move to Russia in the future.
Who knows.
Time will tell.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on May 22, 2020, 10:13:45 PM
The coronavirus?
THE fucking coronavirus?

LMAO!!!!
Alright. The coronavirus, hahahaha!!!
Yeah, well, my thoughts on the virus are non-existent.
More interested in economical and global ramifications.
I see this as an opportunity to fuck the value of the dollar in the ass. I see Asian markets raising tariffs.
I see Western countries getting pissed.
Could potentially lead to a third World War with nuclear weapons.

I see money markets going East. Europeans may have to move to Russia in the future.
Who knows.
Time will tell.

ely


They said all this about the financial crash 2008... IMO wishful thinking. More likely a spending spree post epidemic, survival syndrome..

Quote from: JLIAT on May 23, 2020, 11:10:47 AM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on May 22, 2020, 10:13:45 PM
The coronavirus?
THE fucking coronavirus?

LMAO!!!!
Alright. The coronavirus, hahahaha!!!
Yeah, well, my thoughts on the virus are non-existent.
More interested in economical and global ramifications.
I see this as an opportunity to fuck the value of the dollar in the ass. I see Asian markets raising tariffs.
I see Western countries getting pissed.
Could potentially lead to a third World War with nuclear weapons.

I see money markets going East. Europeans may have to move to Russia in the future.
Who knows.
Time will tell.

ely


They said all this about the financial crash 2008... IMO wishful thinking. More likely a spending spree post epidemic, survival syndrome..

Well dollar's definitely fucked up and never recovering. West doesn't make anything, America makes nothing. China makes everything, so their economy won't get hit nearly as hard long-term.
Plus, when they raise tariffs. That's pissing on the wound. These aren't my personal fantasies, just objectively what I see taking place.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on May 23, 2020, 04:37:56 PM

Quote from: JLIAT on May 23, 2020, 11:10:47 AM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on May 22, 2020, 10:13:45 PM
The coronavirus?
THE fucking coronavirus?

LMAO!!!!
Alright. The coronavirus, hahahaha!!!
Yeah, well, my thoughts on the virus are non-existent.
More interested in economical and global ramifications.
I see this as an opportunity to fuck the value of the dollar in the ass. I see Asian markets raising tariffs.
I see Western countries getting pissed.
Could potentially lead to a third World War with nuclear weapons.

I see money markets going East. Europeans may have to move to Russia in the future.
Who knows.
Time will tell.

ely


They said all this about the financial crash 2008... IMO wishful thinking. More likely a spending spree post epidemic, survival syndrome..

Well dollar's definitely fucked up and never recovering. West doesn't make anything, America makes nothing. China makes everything, so their economy won't get hit nearly as hard long-term.
Plus, when they raise tariffs. That's pissing on the wound. These aren't my personal fantasies, just objectively what I see taking place.

Objectively China doesn't manufacture everything*, though I admit it can seem so in certain cases. The Chinese economy is dependent on exports, its the trick of Henry Ford to make sure those who you wish to sell product to can afford to buy it.

*most of my eurorack is not Chinese. Though Behringer is now making Eurorack!!! Although I just got a Mooer GE200 - which is FAB.

Quote from: JLIAT on May 23, 2020, 04:59:59 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on May 23, 2020, 04:37:56 PM

Quote from: JLIAT on May 23, 2020, 11:10:47 AM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on May 22, 2020, 10:13:45 PM
The coronavirus?
THE fucking coronavirus?

LMAO!!!!
Alright. The coronavirus, hahahaha!!!
Yeah, well, my thoughts on the virus are non-existent.
More interested in economical and global ramifications.
I see this as an opportunity to fuck the value of the dollar in the ass. I see Asian markets raising tariffs.
I see Western countries getting pissed.
Could potentially lead to a third World War with nuclear weapons.

I see money markets going East. Europeans may have to move to Russia in the future.
Who knows.
Time will tell.

ely


They said all this about the financial crash 2008... IMO wishful thinking. More likely a spending spree post epidemic, survival syndrome..

Well dollar's definitely fucked up and never recovering. West doesn't make anything, America makes nothing. China makes everything, so their economy won't get hit nearly as hard long-term.
Plus, when they raise tariffs. That's pissing on the wound. These aren't my personal fantasies, just objectively what I see taking place.

Objectively China doesn't manufacture everything*, though I admit it can seem so in certain cases. The Chinese economy is dependent on exports, its the trick of Henry Ford to make sure those who you wish to sell product to can afford to buy it.

*most of my eurorack is not Chinese. Though Behringer is now making Eurorack!!! Although I just got a Mooer GE200 - which is FAB.

Slight exaggeration about China making everything, but not quite a stretch.
China is forced to tariff, to cover the costs of production. Because their economy is a slowed growth, but Chinese are a very mathematical people.
When you put it all together, it would not surprise me if their analysts did not anticipate this coming.

Even if this eventually boils to a world war, which I believe it will, they're better suited for that even because they have 1.5 billion people.


My personal theories on the matter: If I am to be totally blunt, I anticipate a world war of unimaginable proportions awaiting us in the somewhat near future.

Say it ain't so, but the chips do seem to be heading in this direction.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on January 15, 1975, 03:46:50 PM


Slight exaggeration about China making everything, but not quite a stretch.
China is forced to tariff, to cover the costs of production. Because their economy is a slowed growth, but Chinese are a very mathematical people.
When you put it all together, it would not surprise me if their analysts did not anticipate this coming.

Even if this eventually boils to a world war, which I believe it will, they're better suited for that even because they have 1.5 billion people.


My personal theories on the matter: If I am to be totally blunt, I anticipate a world war of unimaginable proportions awaiting us in the somewhat near future.

Say it ain't so, but the chips do seem to be heading in this direction.

I think manufacturing is now global, shoes from Vietnam, clothes from Bangladesh... Car manufacturing still occurs in Europe, and there are plenty of other areas where China doesn't dominate, such as food production. I think because they do dominate tech it seems they perhaps do make 'everything'. But no more than Japan maybe post WW2... or the UK during the beginning of the industrial revolution.

As for a world war, from what cause and between what nations. I guess China and the USA.  Maybe Putin's Russia and the USA. But I cant see any suitable cause. China depends on exports, if it raises tariffs then production could simply switch to say India...  The two world wars in which WW2 was in part the continuation of WW1, was about newer nations seeking colonialization and resources, as well as the collapse of old empires. China has I think adopted a non military route in this, its very much involved with Africa. The military option seems to have been replaced by the economic route. We have the scenarios of Germany, Italy, and Japan trying the former and failing. And of course the USA in Vietnam.

I guess the only other motivation is religious fundamentalism, in the middle east, Israel and its neighbours. How this would become global I cant see. China isn't involved? So would need to be Russia - USA. Again maybe Iran getting involved? But Israel seems to be capable of survival without *explicit* aid.  Off topic!

Armageddon is maybe (death) wishful thinking?

Quote from: JLIAT on May 24, 2020, 10:21:33 AM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on January 15, 1975, 03:46:50 PM


Slight exaggeration about China making everything, but not quite a stretch.
China is forced to tariff, to cover the costs of production. Because their economy is a slowed growth, but Chinese are a very mathematical people.
When you put it all together, it would not surprise me if their analysts did not anticipate this coming.

Even if this eventually boils to a world war, which I believe it will, they're better suited for that even because they have 1.5 billion people.


My personal theories on the matter: If I am to be totally blunt, I anticipate a world war of unimaginable proportions awaiting us in the somewhat near future.

Say it ain't so, but the chips do seem to be heading in this direction.

I think manufacturing is now global, shoes from Vietnam, clothes from Bangladesh... Car manufacturing still occurs in Europe, and there are plenty of other areas where China doesn't dominate, such as food production. I think because they do dominate tech it seems they perhaps do make 'everything'. But no more than Japan maybe post WW2... or the UK during the beginning of the industrial revolution.

As for a world war, from what cause and between what nations. I guess China and the USA.  Maybe Putin's Russia and the USA. But I cant see any suitable cause. China depends on exports, if it raises tariffs then production could simply switch to say India...  The two world wars in which WW2 was in part the continuation of WW1, was about newer nations seeking colonialization and resources, as well as the collapse of old empires. China has I think adopted a non military route in this, its very much involved with Africa. The military option seems to have been replaced by the economic route. We have the scenarios of Germany, Italy, and Japan trying the former and failing. And of course the USA in Vietnam.

I guess the only other motivation is religious fundamentalism, in the middle east, Israel and its neighbours. How this would become global I cant see. China isn't involved? So would need to be Russia - USA. Again maybe Iran getting involved? But Israel seems to be capable of survival without *explicit* aid.  Off topic!

Armageddon is maybe (death) wishful thinking?

USA vs. Russia ain't gonna happen imho. Over the last 2 decades Russia and China have been cooperating ever more closely. It is not an alliance by any means and there is a still a lot of suspicion between both regimes, but it is a huge "what if" that functions as a strong deterrent. USA and China both are economically dependent on the other, for the moment. Something which will probably change to the advantage of China if the US continues it's policy of alienating their classic allies and China continues to improve their economic ties with other resource-producing or market countries and so become less dependent on their trade with the US. Their reaction to Trump threatening to withdraw the 500 million they yearly pay to the WHO spoke volumes. 

given the current state of the CIA-accelerated chimp Siege here in America, we're gonna see a massive spike in cases. further lockdowns and quarantines will ensue, which will probably last until late fall, around which time the first rounds of vaccines will be approved for human trial. considering that they've already openly injected this into the zeitgeist  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2  (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2), i won't be surprised when the vaccine is proposed to be mandatory for all Americans hoping to engage in society, and most people will be so stir crazy from being housebound by that point that they'll welcome it with open arms. declaring martial law sooner than later would probably dull the shock of having personnel show up door to door to administer it later on down the road.

Quote from: Obetavá.Protivník on June 03, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
given the current state of the CIA-accelerated chimp Siege here in America, we're gonna see a massive spike in cases. further lockdowns and quarantines will ensue, which will probably last until late fall, around which time the first rounds of vaccines will be approved for human trial. considering that they've already openly injected this into the zeitgeist  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2  (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2), i won't be surprised when the vaccine is proposed to be mandatory for all Americans hoping to engage in society, and most people will be so stir crazy from being housebound by that point that they'll welcome it with open arms. declaring martial law sooner than later would probably dull the shock of having personnel show up door to door to administer it later on down the road.

America is a shithole

panicdemic has been momentarily postponed in states for the scheduled pussy riots media spectacle...
this color revolution tactic
presented by DNC & George/Alex Soros/Swartz

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on June 03, 2020, 03:57:35 PM
panicdemic has been momentarily postponed in states for the scheduled pussy riots media spectacle...

And it will likely be back in full force by the end of next week.  Yet another reason why these riots are terrible.

Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on June 03, 2020, 08:03:25 PM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on June 03, 2020, 03:57:35 PM
panicdemic has been momentarily postponed in states for the scheduled pussy riots media spectacle...

And it will likely be back in full force by the end of next week.  Yet another reason why these riots are terrible.

it's already coming back with some vigor it seems. 10k new cases, 500+ new deaths.

Quote from: Obetavá.Protivník on June 03, 2020, 10:09:06 PM

Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on June 03, 2020, 08:03:25 PM

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on June 03, 2020, 03:57:35 PM
panicdemic has been momentarily postponed in states for the scheduled pussy riots media spectacle...

And it will likely be back in full force by the end of next week.  Yet another reason why these riots are terrible.

it's already coming back with some vigor it seems. 10k new cases, 500+ new deaths.

In the US?

Actually, there will be millions of new COVID-deaths with the next generations to come, because everybody who ever had it (even without knowing) and died, will be forever classified as death from covid... yank up them numbers fellas! Whatever suits you to keep people locked up at home

Got a COVID swab as I was exposed to someone through work - thankfully negative but that test is like that scene from Total Recall where he pulls that thing out of his brain. Dude went so far up my nostril I think he touched my eyeball from the inside.....

Quote from: Obetavá.Protivník on June 03, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
given the current state of the CIA-accelerated chimp Siege here in America, we're gonna see a massive spike in cases. further lockdowns and quarantines will ensue, which will probably last until late fall, around which time the first rounds of vaccines will be approved for human trial. considering that they've already openly injected this into the zeitgeist  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2  (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2), i won't be surprised when the vaccine is proposed to be mandatory for all Americans hoping to engage in society, and most people will be so stir crazy from being housebound by that point that they'll welcome it with open arms. declaring martial law sooner than later would probably dull the shock of having personnel show up door to door to administer it later on down the road.

I agree with most of what you said. In fact, you hit the nail on the head.
There really will be an apocalyptic like scenario, whether people want to admit facts or not.

It is happening, in multiple facets. Sociologically, economically, internationally, etc.
What they are doing in the States is Bolshevik WW1 Marxist class struggle preparation, followed by a full on breakdown of society.

I personally, bow to no man, and I won't bow to any ape certainly, unlike these white trash filth wearing sideways hats and speaking about "God."

They better take a bullet to my head, and keep shooting until I am for sure dead, because I will never bow to anybody.

My wrath is only building-up.
The people, on this site, as far as I'm concerned, are my people.

That's why I came here.
With that said, prepare for some apocalyptic shit.
This is no fucking joke anymore, if it ever was.

P.S. 'Apocalypse' is one of those stupid terms, but it's the best one to use to describe what will happen.
'Apocalypse' isn't something that will happen one on Earth, to fulfill God's will, blah, blah blah.
Bible was written, to fulfill the narrative  of societal collapse, which is an economic cycle of a nation, like discussed in Plato's Republic.
Every time, there is anarchy, "the will of God" is fulfilled.

Meanwhile, that book is just (the perfect) system of control.
Any time a population knows too much about the foundations of society, (revelations) it fucking ends.

Man was designed to be the perfect little slave ploughing in the garden  of Eden. (utopia / Marxist dream.)
And Jesus represents the failed revolutionary who got nailed to a fucking CROSS.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 06, 2020, 09:27:06 PM

Quote from: Obetavá.Protivník on June 03, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
given the current state of the CIA-accelerated chimp Siege here in America, we're gonna see a massive spike in cases. further lockdowns and quarantines will ensue, which will probably last until late fall, around which time the first rounds of vaccines will be approved for human trial. considering that they've already openly injected this into the zeitgeist  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2  (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2), i won't be surprised when the vaccine is proposed to be mandatory for all Americans hoping to engage in society, and most people will be so stir crazy from being housebound by that point that they'll welcome it with open arms. declaring martial law sooner than later would probably dull the shock of having personnel show up door to door to administer it later on down the road.

I agree with most of what you said. In fact, you hit the nail on the head.
There really will be an apocalyptic like scenario, whether people want to admit facts or not.

It is happening, in multiple facets. Sociologically, economically, internationally, etc.
What they are doing in the States is Bolshevik WW1 Marxist class struggle preparation, followed by a full on breakdown of society.

I personally, bow to no man, and I won't bow to any ape certainly, unlike these white trash filth wearing sideways hats and speaking about "God."

They better take a bullet to my head, and keep shooting until I am for sure dead, because I will never bow to anybody.

My wrath is only building-up.
The people, on this site, as far as I'm concerned, are my people.

That's why I came here.
With that said, prepare for some apocalyptic shit.
This is no fucking joke anymore, if it ever was.

P.S. 'Apocalypse' is one of those stupid terms, but it's the best one to use to describe what will happen.
'Apocalypse' isn't something that will happen one on Earth, to fulfill God's will, blah, blah blah.
Bible was written, to fulfill the narrative  of societal collapse, which is an economic cycle of a nation, like discussed in Plato's Republic.
Every time, there is anarchy, "the will of God" is fulfilled.

Meanwhile, that book is just (the perfect) system of control.
Any time a population knows too much about the foundations of society, (revelations) it fucking ends.

Man was designed to be the perfect little slave ploughing in the garden  of Eden. (utopia / Marxist dream.)
And Jesus represents the failed revolutionary who got nailed to a fucking CROSS.

Think you got a little off track there, bud. Make sure to take some deep breaths.

Quote from: NerveGas on June 07, 2020, 12:48:06 AM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 06, 2020, 09:27:06 PM

Think you got a little off track there, bud. Make sure to take some deep breaths.

They're one of the best trolls on here currently . Really looking forward to their future posts.

Quote from: NerveGas on June 07, 2020, 12:48:06 AM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 06, 2020, 09:27:06 PM

Quote from: Obetavá.Protivník on June 03, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
given the current state of the CIA-accelerated chimp Siege here in America, we're gonna see a massive spike in cases. further lockdowns and quarantines will ensue, which will probably last until late fall, around which time the first rounds of vaccines will be approved for human trial. considering that they've already openly injected this into the zeitgeist  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2  (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2), i won't be surprised when the vaccine is proposed to be mandatory for all Americans hoping to engage in society, and most people will be so stir crazy from being housebound by that point that they'll welcome it with open arms. declaring martial law sooner than later would probably dull the shock of having personnel show up door to door to administer it later on down the road.

I agree with most of what you said. In fact, you hit the nail on the head.
There really will be an apocalyptic like scenario, whether people want to admit facts or not.

It is happening, in multiple facets. Sociologically, economically, internationally, etc.
What they are doing in the States is Bolshevik WW1 Marxist class struggle preparation, followed by a full on breakdown of society.

I personally, bow to no man, and I won't bow to any ape certainly, unlike these white trash filth wearing sideways hats and speaking about "God."

They better take a bullet to my head, and keep shooting until I am for sure dead, because I will never bow to anybody.

My wrath is only building-up.
The people, on this site, as far as I'm concerned, are my people.

That's why I came here.
With that said, prepare for some apocalyptic shit.
This is no fucking joke anymore, if it ever was.

P.S. 'Apocalypse' is one of those stupid terms, but it's the best one to use to describe what will happen.
'Apocalypse' isn't something that will happen one on Earth, to fulfill God's will, blah, blah blah.
Bible was written, to fulfill the narrative  of societal collapse, which is an economic cycle of a nation, like discussed in Plato's Republic.
Every time, there is anarchy, "the will of God" is fulfilled.

Meanwhile, that book is just (the perfect) system of control.
Any time a population knows too much about the foundations of society, (revelations) it fucking ends.

Man was designed to be the perfect little slave ploughing in the garden  of Eden. (utopia / Marxist dream.)
And Jesus represents the failed revolutionary who got nailed to a fucking CROSS.

Think you got a little off track there, bud. Make sure to take some deep breaths.

Piss off.

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 07, 2020, 02:11:22 PM

Quote from: NerveGas on June 07, 2020, 12:48:06 AM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 06, 2020, 09:27:06 PM

Think you got a little off track there, bud. Make sure to take some deep breaths.

They're one of the best trolls on here currently . Really looking forward to their future posts.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 07, 2020, 07:08:36 PM

Quote from: NerveGas on June 07, 2020, 12:48:06 AM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 06, 2020, 09:27:06 PM

Quote from: Obetavá.Protivník on June 03, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
given the current state of the CIA-accelerated chimp Siege here in America, we're gonna see a massive spike in cases. further lockdowns and quarantines will ensue, which will probably last until late fall, around which time the first rounds of vaccines will be approved for human trial. considering that they've already openly injected this into the zeitgeist  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2  (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2), i won't be surprised when the vaccine is proposed to be mandatory for all Americans hoping to engage in society, and most people will be so stir crazy from being housebound by that point that they'll welcome it with open arms. declaring martial law sooner than later would probably dull the shock of having personnel show up door to door to administer it later on down the road.

I agree with most of what you said. In fact, you hit the nail on the head.
There really will be an apocalyptic like scenario, whether people want to admit facts or not.

It is happening, in multiple facets. Sociologically, economically, internationally, etc.
What they are doing in the States is Bolshevik WW1 Marxist class struggle preparation, followed by a full on breakdown of society.

I personally, bow to no man, and I won't bow to any ape certainly, unlike these white trash filth wearing sideways hats and speaking about "God."

They better take a bullet to my head, and keep shooting until I am for sure dead, because I will never bow to anybody.

My wrath is only building-up.
The people, on this site, as far as I'm concerned, are my people.

That's why I came here.
With that said, prepare for some apocalyptic shit.
This is no fucking joke anymore, if it ever was.

P.S. 'Apocalypse' is one of those stupid terms, but it's the best one to use to describe what will happen.
'Apocalypse' isn't something that will happen one on Earth, to fulfill God's will, blah, blah blah.
Bible was written, to fulfill the narrative  of societal collapse, which is an economic cycle of a nation, like discussed in Plato's Republic.
Every time, there is anarchy, "the will of God" is fulfilled.

Meanwhile, that book is just (the perfect) system of control.
Any time a population knows too much about the foundations of society, (revelations) it fucking ends.

Man was designed to be the perfect little slave ploughing in the garden  of Eden. (utopia / Marxist dream.)
And Jesus represents the failed revolutionary who got nailed to a fucking CROSS.

Think you got a little off track there, bud. Make sure to take some deep breaths.

Piss off.

To BlackSunAndSteel, I appreciate your kind words.
However, I do assure you that I am no troll. I am just a little batshit crazy, but I do not give a fuck. I voice my "out-there" beliefs, regardless of how they may come across.
I put a lot of effort into my posts, because I know some people here do appreciate them.
It is easy for me to go off-topic, because the way my mind works, I am able to make many connections to things very quickly, and then I have to breakdown my thoughts, to explain how I arrived at certain conclusions so that I can the it in with the topic at hand.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 07, 2020, 09:20:40 PMI voice my "out-there" beliefs, regardless of how they may come across.

they come across as racist. you'll fit right in around here

Personally, I look forward to the day when we all finally meet up in the camps!

Quote from: denethorgul on June 08, 2020, 12:42:37 AM
Personally, I look forward to the day when we all finally meet up in the camps!

https://soundcloud.com/zyklon-ss/zss-bbtc-live-kontti-vantaa-jan-2018

https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfectant-causing-bleeding-and-pain-2020-6

Gas chamber-esque situation on American soil

Quote from: Soloman Tump on June 08, 2020, 09:02:29 AM
https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfectant-causing-bleeding-and-pain-2020-6

Gas chamber-esque situation on American soil

I think the comparison with what occurred in the Holocaust is wrong, and potentially dangerous. After all the lies pedalled by Holocaust deniers, I hope you are not one, was that the gas chambers were merely used to fumigate clothes, from lice. The systematic, planned and deliberate destruction of a whole race by a government's military is not the same as some over zealous action of some commercial company subject to laws.

IMO. !

Quote from: JLIAT on June 08, 2020, 11:58:14 AM

Quote from: Soloman Tump on June 08, 2020, 09:02:29 AM
https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfectant-causing-bleeding-and-pain-2020-6

Gas chamber-esque situation on American soil

I think the comparison with what occurred in the Holocaust is wrong, and potentially dangerous. After all the lies pedalled by Holocaust deniers, I hope you are not one, was that the gas chambers were merely used to fumigate clothes, from lice. The systematic, planned and deliberate destruction of a whole race by a government's military is not the same as some over zealous action of some commercial company subject to laws.

IMO. !

Pretty uncharitable to jump from what they posted to a holocaust comparison and declaring them as denier.

IMO!

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 08, 2020, 01:55:06 PM

Quote from: JLIAT on June 08, 2020, 11:58:14 AM

Quote from: Soloman Tump on June 08, 2020, 09:02:29 AM
https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfectant-causing-bleeding-and-pain-2020-6

Gas chamber-esque situation on American soil

I think the comparison with what occurred in the Holocaust is wrong, and potentially dangerous. After all the lies pedalled by Holocaust deniers, I hope you are not one, was that the gas chambers were merely used to fumigate clothes, from lice. The systematic, planned and deliberate destruction of a whole race by a government's military is not the same as some over zealous action of some commercial company subject to laws.

IMO. !

Pretty uncharitable to jump from what they posted to a holocaust comparison and declaring them as denier.

IMO!

I wish you would read what I actually wrote, nowhere did I 'declare' anything, having exchanged posts before i'm certain he isn't, though others here certainly are. And they have pedalled the untruth re the de- loucing was the only site of Zyklon B in the camps, which it was not.

My point remains comparing disinfecting causing pain and some harm IMO is not comparable to a gas chamber. One of the tactics of deniers is to use the "well the allies did as bad, or worse". I happen not to agree. But I fully apologise for any upset I may have caused...

Quote from: theotherjohn on June 08, 2020, 03:30:05 PM
I wish you would read the actual article, so you could see the following quote: "People are voicing their outrage on social media over the reported conditions at the Adelanto facility, likening the poor ventilation and exposure to toxic chemicals to gas chambers used to kill Jewish people and other minority groups during the Holocaust."

I'm not sure who you are addressing this to, if me, then yes I did read it. "likening the poor ventilation and exposure to toxic chemicals to gas chambers used to kill Jewish people and other minority groups during the Holocaust." If you really think this can be "likened" then I gracefully bow out of this discussion.

Filling a windowless building packing them in and throwing children on top, closing the doors and then from a vent in the top pouring in the powder, waiting till the screams stop then disposing of the bodies in specially designed ovens which used the human fat to power the combustion... yeh - very similar... thus killing 6 million is very like "Detainees at the Adelanto detention center in California said many have fallen severely ill due to the constant spray, with at least nine falling severely ill since May 11 according to the report."

9 falling ill = 6 million dead. I give up, your are right.

I am certainly not a holocaust denier, I found the situation described in the article to be quite chilling if I am honest. 

Quote from: Soloman Tump on June 08, 2020, 04:24:52 PM
I am certainly not a holocaust denier...

Sorry for my "I hope..." it was a rhetorical question and ironic, i'm sure you are not. 

What we have here ? People from the same political side : First make accusations that the facility does not clean. When they clean well, they accuse them of cleaning too much, and that they are nazis creating gas-chambers for the immigrants. Fellow here -from the very same political side, it seems- accuse the messenger [!] -then recall- that this comparison is deniers' propaganda and that when 6-million immigrants die screaming and then burned in ovens, then and only then, ...

From Covid to holocaust, while we are under attack by racists and deniers hidden in the shadows here. This thread is turning tragicaly funny.

Quote from: Theodore on June 08, 2020, 05:38:22 PM
What we have here ? People from the same political side : First make accusations that the facility does not clean. When they clean well, they accuse them of cleaning too much, and that they are nazis creating gas-chambers for the immigrants. Fellow here -from the very same political side, it seems- accuse the messenger [!] -then recall- that this comparison is deniers' propaganda and that when 6-million immigrants die screaming and then burned in ovens, then and only then, ...

From Covid to holocaust, while we are under attack by racists and deniers hidden in the shadows here. This thread is turning tragicaly funny.

Racism? Sure, I'll be racist. I don't know what it's like in your country, but they're actively trying to weaponize black people against white people, with riots and trying to intimidate people into bowing to them. Get the fuck out of here with that. LMAO

I see too much timidity in people. It's the most disgusting quality in a person. We're undergoing a historical period.  The news is no longer just a headline meant to induce fear and consumption behavior in people. There is no longer time for weakness.

Soros survived the crackdown on Jews during WW2, and he sold out his own people to do it. He, is surreptitiously funding the same projects that put his youth on danger, because that kind of behavior is commonly seen in those who have been psychologically victimized.

I have no personal politics. I go where the facts are. They're clearly trying to manufacture a restructuring of society, done in the vein of WW1 Russian Leninism. If one cannot honestly see that, or cannot acknowledge it because "racism," then good luck to you surviving a very harrowing future reality.

It will get to be as bad as I am calling it. In fact, anyone who knows me, knows I called these riots at the very start of the lockdown. I do not delight in this realization. It is what it is.

All you have to do is pick up a history book and read about what happened in Russia directly prior to world war 1.

I came across this recently re - Baudrilliard - who seems out of the picture these days- but makes an intersting point re inoculation via allowing such ... Virus and protest movements.

"... any given system (such as a capitalist one) which is characterized by efficiency, the possibility of opposition to the system has to be controlled internally if the system is to persist. The single best way of controlling opposition is of course,  by accommodation.  Hence, using the medical analogy... operate (s) rather like an inoculation against disease."  Thomas Docherty, in Continental Philosophy in the 20th Century,   p.481, Routledge.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 08, 2020, 06:13:00 PM

Racism? Sure, I'll be racist. I don't know what it's like in your country, but they're actively trying to weaponize black people against white people, with riots and trying to intimidate people into bowing to them. Get the fuck out of here with that. LMAO

I see too much timidity in people. It's the most disgusting quality in a person. We're undergoing a historical period.  The news is no longer just a headline meant to induce fear and consumption behavior in people. There is no longer time for weakness.

Soros survived the crackdown on Jews during WW2, and he sold out his own people to do it. He, is surreptitiously funding the same projects that put his youth on danger, because that kind of behavior is commonly seen in those who have been psychologically victimized.

I have no personal politics. I go where the facts are. They're clearly trying to manufacture a restructuring of society, done in the vein of WW1 Russian Leninism. If one cannot honestly see that, or cannot acknowledge it because "racism," then good luck to you surviving a very harrowing future reality.

It will get to be as bad as I am calling it. In fact, anyone who knows me, knows I called these riots at the very start of the lockdown. I do not delight in this realization. It is what it is.

All you have to do is pick up a history book and read about what happened in Russia directly prior to world war 1.

I have an advice for you. Do it anything you want. But it is the best you will get. If you are not a troll, and until -hm how to put it- your 'condition' change for better, -if ever- , whatever your cause / ideology / politics is, you, specificaly you, will better help it by remaining silent !

-

That's it. I dont post in this thread anymore.

Quote from: Theodore on June 08, 2020, 07:16:06 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 08, 2020, 06:13:00 PM

Racism? Sure, I'll be racist. I don't know what it's like in your country, but they're actively trying to weaponize black people against white people, with riots and trying to intimidate people into bowing to them. Get the fuck out of here with that. LMAO

I see too much timidity in people. It's the most disgusting quality in a person. We're undergoing a historical period.  The news is no longer just a headline meant to induce fear and consumption behavior in people. There is no longer time for weakness.

Soros survived the crackdown on Jews during WW2, and he sold out his own people to do it. He, is surreptitiously funding the same projects that put his youth on danger, because that kind of behavior is commonly seen in those who have been psychologically victimized.

I have no personal politics. I go where the facts are. They're clearly trying to manufacture a restructuring of society, done in the vein of WW1 Russian Leninism. If one cannot honestly see that, or cannot acknowledge it because "racism," then good luck to you surviving a very harrowing future reality.

It will get to be as bad as I am calling it. In fact, anyone who knows me, knows I called these riots at the very start of the lockdown. I do not delight in this realization. It is what it is.

All you have to do is pick up a history book and read about what happened in Russia directly prior to world war 1.

I have an advice for you. Do it anything you want. But it is the best you will get. If you are not a troll, and until -hm how to put it- your 'condition' change for better, -if ever- , whatever your cause / ideology / politics is, you, specificaly you, will better help it by remaining silent !

-

That's it. I dont post in this thread anymore.

No, honestly, I think we're at this point in world history right now because too many people have been remaining silent.

Guys, please let's have a reasonable discussion here, as it's been said, we're undergoing a historical period (because literally everything that's happening is historical)! And AnonMessAgeSage predicted everything that happened until now, just ask their friends, so you better listen because if you selectively fabricate the facts yourself, you're always right!

Quote from: JLIAT on June 08, 2020, 07:04:05 PM
I came across this recently re - Baudrilliard - who seems out of the picture these days- but makes an intersting point re inoculation via allowing such ... Virus and protest movements.

"... any given system (such as a capitalist one) which is characterized by efficiency, the possibility of opposition to the system has to be controlled internally if the system is to persist. The single best way of controlling opposition is of course,  by accommodation.  Hence, using the medical analogy... operate (s) rather like an inoculation against disease."  Thomas Docherty, in Continental Philosophy in the 20th Century,   p.481, Routledge.

This makes a lot of sense, I think.  It will certainly be interesting to watch the rise of socialism in the US with this in mind.

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 08, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
Guys, please let's have a reasonable discussion here, as it's been said, we're undergoing a historical period (because literally everything that's happening is historical)! And AnonMessAgeSage predicted everything that happened until now, just ask their friends, so you better listen because if you selectively fabricate the facts yourself, you're always right!

Please, guys.

Oh, remember to look back on this post in the future, and we'll see how many things I predicted came true.

Be in denial. LOL

Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on June 09, 2020, 01:16:35 AM

Quote from: JLIAT on June 08, 2020, 07:04:05 PM
I came across this recently re - Baudrilliard - who seems out of the picture these days- but makes an intersting point re inoculation via allowing such ... Virus and protest movements.

"... any given system (such as a capitalist one) which is characterized by efficiency, the possibility of opposition to the system has to be controlled internally if the system is to persist. The single best way of controlling opposition is of course,  by accommodation.  Hence, using the medical analogy... operate (s) rather like an inoculation against disease."  Thomas Docherty, in Continental Philosophy in the 20th Century,   p.481, Routledge.

This makes a lot of sense, I think.  It will certainly be interesting to watch the rise of socialism in the US with this in mind.

I think the point is there will not be any significant change, at best a simulation. Capitalism from the get go saw riots... goes back at least to Bacchanalia, lord if miss rule... etc.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 08:42:02 AM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 08, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
Guys, please let's have a reasonable discussion here, as it's been said, we're undergoing a historical period (because literally everything that's happening is historical)! And AnonMessAgeSage predicted everything that happened until now, just ask their friends, so you better listen because if you selectively fabricate the facts yourself, you're always right!

Please, guys.

Oh, remember to look back on this post in the future, and we'll see how many things I predicted came true.

Be in denial. LOL

The only thing I'm in denial of is your intelligence. Wanna throw down some ca$h for a bet on any of your brave "predictions"? Let's see how delusional you really are!!

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 09, 2020, 01:52:36 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 08:42:02 AM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 08, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
Guys, please let's have a reasonable discussion here, as it's been said, we're undergoing a historical period (because literally everything that's happening is historical)! And AnonMessAgeSage predicted everything that happened until now, just ask their friends, so you better listen because if you selectively fabricate the facts yourself, you're always right!

Please, guys.

Oh, remember to look back on this post in the future, and we'll see how many things I predicted came true.

Be in denial. LOL

The only thing I'm in denial of is your intelligence. Wanna throw down some ca$h for a bet on any of your brave "predictions"? Let's see how delusional you really are!!

Get your panties out of a wad. You're being a fucking weirdo for no reason. After I even thanked you for your kind remarks earlier.
No, I don't need money. What, are we 6 years old? LMAO.
I'm pretty confident about my intelligence, so no worries. Calm the fuck down. I wasn't even bragging.
I can't make an observation without you being condescending jackass?

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 09, 2020, 01:52:36 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 08:42:02 AM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 08, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
Guys, please let's have a reasonable discussion here, as it's been said, we're undergoing a historical period (because literally everything that's happening is historical)! And AnonMessAgeSage predicted everything that happened until now, just ask their friends, so you better listen because if you selectively fabricate the facts yourself, you're always right!

Please, guys.

Oh, remember to look back on this post in the future, and we'll see how many things I predicted came true.

Be in denial. LOL

The only thing I'm in denial of is your intelligence. Wanna throw down some ca$h for a bet on any of your brave "predictions"? Let's see how delusional you really are!!

Get your panties out of a wad. You're being a fucking weirdo for no reason. After I even thanked you for your kind remarks earlier.
No, I don't need money. What, are we 6 years old? LMAO.
I'm pretty confident about my intelligence, so no worries. Calm the fuck down. I wasn't even bragging.
I can't make an observation without you being condescending jackass?

You sound pretty mad bro, are you okay? It's alright, not everybody has the guts to put money behind the bullshit their spouting, I understand. So you're either a troll (as I predicted) or a coward... or both?!

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 09, 2020, 03:19:30 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 09, 2020, 01:52:36 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 08:42:02 AM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 08, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
Guys, please let's have a reasonable discussion here, as it's been said, we're undergoing a historical period (because literally everything that's happening is historical)! And AnonMessAgeSage predicted everything that happened until now, just ask their friends, so you better listen because if you selectively fabricate the facts yourself, you're always right!

Please, guys.

Oh, remember to look back on this post in the future, and we'll see how many things I predicted came true.

Be in denial. LOL

The only thing I'm in denial of is your intelligence. Wanna throw down some ca$h for a bet on any of your brave "predictions"? Let's see how delusional you really are!!

Get your panties out of a wad. You're being a fucking weirdo for no reason. After I even thanked you for your kind remarks earlier.
No, I don't need money. What, are we 6 years old? LMAO.
I'm pretty confident about my intelligence, so no worries. Calm the fuck down. I wasn't even bragging.
I can't make an observation without you being condescending jackass?

You sound pretty mad bro, are you okay? It's alright, not everybody has the guts to put money behind the bullshit their spouting, I understand. So you're either a troll (as I predicted) or a coward... or both?!

I don't give a fuck, you fucking fool. My predictions are all laid out in the thread, dipshit, reference back if you ACTUALLY give that much of a fuck.
I don't want your fucking money, and I DON'T give a FUCK if you approve of my views.
Post apocalyptic viewpoints must frighten you.
Truth hurts.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 03:25:00 PM

I don't give a fuck, you fucking fool. My predictions are all laid out in the thread, dipshit, reference back if you ACTUALLY give that much of a fuck.
I don't want your fucking money, and I DON'T give a FUCK if you approve of my views.
Post apocalyptic viewpoints must frighten you.
Truth hurts.

I've gone back over the thread, and the only prediction I can find of yours is that it seems the USA is heading towards some fundamental collapse. You agreed with the CIA / Marxist thing, which I admit I cant follow. So am I correct in your interpretation of apocalypse, and that it relates to the present situation in the USA? And the time frame, months, a couple of years?

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 03:25:00 PM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 09, 2020, 03:19:30 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 09, 2020, 01:52:36 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 08:42:02 AM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 08, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
Guys, please let's have a reasonable discussion here, as it's been said, we're undergoing a historical period (because literally everything that's happening is historical)! And AnonMessAgeSage predicted everything that happened until now, just ask their friends, so you better listen because if you selectively fabricate the facts yourself, you're always right!

Please, guys.

Oh, remember to look back on this post in the future, and we'll see how many things I predicted came true.

Be in denial. LOL

The only thing I'm in denial of is your intelligence. Wanna throw down some ca$h for a bet on any of your brave "predictions"? Let's see how delusional you really are!!

Get your panties out of a wad. You're being a fucking weirdo for no reason. After I even thanked you for your kind remarks earlier.
No, I don't need money. What, are we 6 years old? LMAO.
I'm pretty confident about my intelligence, so no worries. Calm the fuck down. I wasn't even bragging.
I can't make an observation without you being condescending jackass?

You sound pretty mad bro, are you okay? It's alright, not everybody has the guts to put money behind the bullshit their spouting, I understand. So you're either a troll (as I predicted) or a coward... or both?!

I don't give a fuck, you fucking fool. My predictions are all laid out in the thread, dipshit, reference back if you ACTUALLY give that much of a fuck.
I don't want your fucking money, and I DON'T give a FUCK if you approve of my views.
Post apocalyptic viewpoints must frighten you.
Truth hurts.

OMG, you're actually pathetic, replying to my posts constantly while saying you don't give a fuck, thereby clearly contradicting yourself... hilarious!!
YOUR truth hurts mate, cause its rooted in actual stupidity. You think you got all these inner workings figured out cause you skimmed through a couple of right wing history books, and now you have this grand insight into what will happen. PLEASE nostradamus2020, elighten us!! Referring us to your fucking friends "ha ha, if you don't believe me, just ask my friends, they'll tell you I'm right LMFAO!"
Well I am happy for you, I truly am, that you have friends that confirm your biases, because that's what friends are for right?! and they're probably even more stupid than you are because of this, so they have a lot to learn from you.

Yeah, I basically believe there will be some major Marxist restructuring of society, modeled after WW1 Russian Leninism. How their was a major class struggle, which ultimately led to the deaths of the Romanovs and the usurping of power by the Communist party.

At the start of the lockdown, I there would eventually be riots because the economy would falter, leaving many jobless and hungry.
I also believe this is more or less, gonna happen in every country, at least the Western ones, because the lockdown and political agency by groups like Antifa and Black Lives Matter would lead to civil unrest.
However, I feel the effects will be predominantly felt in America, because it is the most divisive nation around.

No matter who is the President, I feel it is impossible to fix the economy at this point.

So, I think we will will approach s dangerous situation where all Western powers basically fall, and the power structure will head East, to nations like Russia and China.

I am full-on expecting a post apocalyptic fallout situation. How soon? I would say, in five years' time the world will be drastically different.
I believe we will approaching a major social upheaval, unlike anything ever seen before.
I believe the damage is just only beginning.
Eventually there will be a third world war, and I see massive segments of the world population being culled.

There is absolutely no way the world will ever go back to what it was was 6 months ago. I don't see how we even could go back to the old world. The newest insanity is all this effort to totally defund all police. I don't care about the police, but the implications of such an effort are massive. Without police, civil militias will form to protect the local communities. We approaching a new era, and the world will never be the same.

I think we're heading back into the dark ages, truthfully.

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 09, 2020, 03:57:50 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 03:25:00 PM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 09, 2020, 03:19:30 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 09, 2020, 01:52:36 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 08:42:02 AM

Quote from: BlackSunAndSteel on June 08, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
Guys, please let's have a reasonable discussion here, as it's been said, we're undergoing a historical period (because literally everything that's happening is historical)! And AnonMessAgeSage predicted everything that happened until now, just ask their friends, so you better listen because if you selectively fabricate the facts yourself, you're always right!

Please, guys.

Oh, remember to look back on this post in the future, and we'll see how many things I predicted came true.

Be in denial. LOL

The only thing I'm in denial of is your intelligence. Wanna throw down some ca$h for a bet on any of your brave "predictions"? Let's see how delusional you really are!!

Get your panties out of a wad. You're being a fucking weirdo for no reason. After I even thanked you for your kind remarks earlier.
No, I don't need money. What, are we 6 years old? LMAO.
I'm pretty confident about my intelligence, so no worries. Calm the fuck down. I wasn't even bragging.
I can't make an observation without you being condescending jackass?

You sound pretty mad bro, are you okay? It's alright, not everybody has the guts to put money behind the bullshit their spouting, I understand. So you're either a troll (as I predicted) or a coward... or both?!

I don't give a fuck, you fucking fool. My predictions are all laid out in the thread, dipshit, reference back if you ACTUALLY give that much of a fuck.
I don't want your fucking money, and I DON'T give a FUCK if you approve of my views.
Post apocalyptic viewpoints must frighten you.
Truth hurts.

OMG, you're actually pathetic, replying to my posts constantly while saying you don't give a fuck, thereby clearly contradicting yourself... hilarious!!
YOUR truth hurts mate, cause its rooted in actual stupidity. You think you got all these inner workings figured out cause you skimmed through a couple of right wing history books, and now you have this grand insight into what will happen. PLEASE nostradamus2020, elighten us!! Referring us to your fucking friends "ha ha, if you don't believe me, just ask my friends, they'll tell you I'm right LMFAO!"
Well I am happy for you, I truly am, that you have friends that confirm your biases, because that's what friends are for right?! and they're probably even more stupid than you are because of this, so they have a lot to learn from you.

You are like a fucking bratty ass kid. Get a fucking hobby, desperately trying to get my attention.
Your intelligence is beneath mine, Karate Kid.
Get fucked.
What a butthurt waste of space you are. A literal fucking idiot. Mentally handicapped.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 04:03:13 PM
Yeah, I basically believe there will be some major Marxist restructuring of society, modeled after WW1 Russian Leninism. How their was a major class struggle, which ultimately led to the deaths of the Romanovs and the usurping of power by the Communist party.

At the start of the lockdown, I there would eventually be riots because the economy would falter, leaving many jobless and hungry.
I also believe this is more or less, gonna happen in every country, at least the Western ones, because the lockdown and political agency by groups like Antifa and Black Lives Matter would lead to civil unrest.
However, I feel the effects will be predominantly felt in America, because it is the most divisive nation around.

No matter who is the President, I feel it is impossible to fix the economy at this point.

So, I think we will will approach s dangerous situation where all Western powers basically fall, and the power structure will head East, to nations like Russia and China.

I am full-on expecting a post apocalyptic fallout situation. How soon? I would say, in five years' time the world will be drastically different.
I believe we will approaching a major social upheaval, unlike anything ever seen before.
I believe the damage is just only beginning.
Eventually there will be a third world war, and I see massive segments of the world population being culled.

There is absolutely no way the world will ever go back to what it was was 6 months ago. I don't see how we even could go back to the old world. The newest insanity is all this effort to totally defund all police. I don't care about the police, but the implications of such an effort are massive. Without police, civil militias will form to protect the local communities. We approaching a new era, and the world will never be the same.

I think we're heading back into the dark ages, truthfully.

Thanks for that, its fairly clear. I assume you are saying that the Covid-19 pandemic is not the cause of this apocalyptic event but a convenient pretext for those forces, maybe also the black lives matter - riots?

(in passing)
Also I notice on another thread your asking for book recommendation and Nassim Nicholas Taleb's book was offered. I cant do the maths & have issues with The Black Swan ideas... but have you come across Nick Land, he is now living in China, though taught in the UK and into Accelerationism... his collected works Fanged Noumena pub. urbanomic - bit of a crazy guy...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Land

should give you some clue... 

Quote from: JLIAT on June 09, 2020, 04:25:14 PM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 04:03:13 PM
Yeah, I basically believe there will be some major Marxist restructuring of society, modeled after WW1 Russian Leninism. How their was a major class struggle, which ultimately led to the deaths of the Romanovs and the usurping of power by the Communist party.

At the start of the lockdown, I there would eventually be riots because the economy would falter, leaving many jobless and hungry.
I also believe this is more or less, gonna happen in every country, at least the Western ones, because the lockdown and political agency by groups like Antifa and Black Lives Matter would lead to civil unrest.
However, I feel the effects will be predominantly felt in America, because it is the most divisive nation around.

No matter who is the President, I feel it is impossible to fix the economy at this point.

So, I think we will will approach s dangerous situation where all Western powers basically fall, and the power structure will head East, to nations like Russia and China.

I am full-on expecting a post apocalyptic fallout situation. How soon? I would say, in five years' time the world will be drastically different.
I believe we will approaching a major social upheaval, unlike anything ever seen before.
I believe the damage is just only beginning.
Eventually there will be a third world war, and I see massive segments of the world population being culled.

There is absolutely no way the world will ever go back to what it was was 6 months ago. I don't see how we even could go back to the old world. The newest insanity is all this effort to totally defund all police. I don't care about the police, but the implications of such an effort are massive. Without police, civil militias will form to protect the local communities. We approaching a new era, and the world will never be the same.

I think we're heading back into the dark ages, truthfully.

Thanks for that, its fairly clear. I assume you are saying that the Covid-19 pandemic is not the cause of this apocalyptic event but a convenient pretext for those forces, maybe also the black lives matter - riots?

(in passing)
Also I notice on another thread your asking for book recommendation and Nassim Nicholas Taleb's book was offered. I cant do the maths & have issues with The Black Swan ideas... but have you come across Nick Land, he is now living in China, though taught in the UK and into Accelerationism... his collected works Fanged Noumena pub. urbanomic - bit of a crazy guy...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Land

should give you some clue... 

Oh, yes, I am well acquainted with the work of Mr. Land.
See, Nick Land is a smart guy, because he understands the natural progression of government / economics.
He understands that all of our wanton Capitalism (and I am certainly not hating on Capitalism) irrevocably leads to the effects of a Communist / Socialism state, and then ultimately to anarchy.

But it is just a natural progression of things. There's no griping this fact; it's recognising. Capitalism is great because it offers free enterprise, but life is ultimately a game of resources, so when billionaires and magnates create monopolies, Capitalism ultimately descends in on itself.

Accelerationism is a pretty cool philosophy. Like everything, though, it has its drawbacks. I just see it as a natural response to things.

Quote from: JLIAT on June 09, 2020, 10:24:46 AM

Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on June 09, 2020, 01:16:35 AM

Quote from: JLIAT on June 08, 2020, 07:04:05 PM
I came across this recently re - Baudrilliard - who seems out of the picture these days- but makes an intersting point re inoculation via allowing such ... Virus and protest movements.

"... any given system (such as a capitalist one) which is characterized by efficiency, the possibility of opposition to the system has to be controlled internally if the system is to persist. The single best way of controlling opposition is of course,  by accommodation.  Hence, using the medical analogy... operate (s) rather like an inoculation against disease."  Thomas Docherty, in Continental Philosophy in the 20th Century,   p.481, Routledge.

This makes a lot of sense, I think.  It will certainly be interesting to watch the rise of socialism in the US with this in mind.

I think the point is there will not be any significant change, at best a simulation. Capitalism from the get go saw riots... goes back at least to Bacchanalia, lord if miss rule... etc.

That's sort of what I was trying to say.  It will be interesting to see if there are any changes, given the grand ideas that are currently being presented.

Quote from: JLIAT on June 08, 2020, 04:04:56 PM

Quote from: theotherjohn on June 08, 2020, 03:30:05 PM
I wish you would read the actual article, so you could see the following quote: "People are voicing their outrage on social media over the reported conditions at the Adelanto facility, likening the poor ventilation and exposure to toxic chemicals to gas chambers used to kill Jewish people and other minority groups during the Holocaust."

I'm not sure who you are addressing this to, if me, then yes I did read it. "likening the poor ventilation and exposure to toxic chemicals to gas chambers used to kill Jewish people and other minority groups during the Holocaust." If you really think this can be "likened" then I gracefully bow out of this discussion.

Filling a windowless building packing them in and throwing children on top, closing the doors and then from a vent in the top pouring in the powder, waiting till the screams stop then disposing of the bodies in specially designed ovens which used the human fat to power the combustion... yeh - very similar... thus killing 6 million is very like "Detainees at the Adelanto detention center in California said many have fallen severely ill due to the constant spray, with at least nine falling severely ill since May 11 according to the report."

9 falling ill = 6 million dead. I give up, your are right.

That is quite the wild tale

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 04:03:13 PM
Yeah, I basically believe there will be some major Marxist restructuring of society, modeled after WW1 Russian Leninism. How their was a major class struggle, which ultimately led to the deaths of the Romanovs and the usurping of power by the Communist party.

At the start of the lockdown, I there would eventually be riots because the economy would falter, leaving many jobless and hungry.
I also believe this is more or less, gonna happen in every country, at least the Western ones, because the lockdown and political agency by groups like Antifa and Black Lives Matter would lead to civil unrest.
However, I feel the effects will be predominantly felt in America, because it is the most divisive nation around.

No matter who is the President, I feel it is impossible to fix the economy at this point.

So, I think we will will approach s dangerous situation where all Western powers basically fall, and the power structure will head East, to nations like Russia and China.

I am full-on expecting a post apocalyptic fallout situation. How soon? I would say, in five years' time the world will be drastically different.
I believe we will approaching a major social upheaval, unlike anything ever seen before.
I believe the damage is just only beginning.
Eventually there will be a third world war, and I see massive segments of the world population being culled.

There is absolutely no way the world will ever go back to what it was was 6 months ago. I don't see how we even could go back to the old world. The newest insanity is all this effort to totally defund all police. I don't care about the police, but the implications of such an effort are massive. Without police, civil militias will form to protect the local communities. We approaching a new era, and the world will never be the same.

I think we're heading back into the dark ages, truthfully.

I can see you're a glass half full kinda guy

Quote from: PuddysJacket on June 21, 2020, 03:17:09 AM

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 04:03:13 PM
Yeah, I basically believe there will be some major Marxist restructuring of society, modeled after WW1 Russian Leninism. How their was a major class struggle, which ultimately led to the deaths of the Romanovs and the usurping of power by the Communist party.

At the start of the lockdown, I there would eventually be riots because the economy would falter, leaving many jobless and hungry.
I also believe this is more or less, gonna happen in every country, at least the Western ones, because the lockdown and political agency by groups like Antifa and Black Lives Matter would lead to civil unrest.
However, I feel the effects will be predominantly felt in America, because it is the most divisive nation around.

No matter who is the President, I feel it is impossible to fix the economy at this point.

So, I think we will will approach s dangerous situation where all Western powers basically fall, and the power structure will head East, to nations like Russia and China.

I am full-on expecting a post apocalyptic fallout situation. How soon? I would say, in five years' time the world will be drastically different.
I believe we will approaching a major social upheaval, unlike anything ever seen before.
I believe the damage is just only beginning.
Eventually there will be a third world war, and I see massive segments of the world population being culled.

There is absolutely no way the world will ever go back to what it was was 6 months ago. I don't see how we even could go back to the old world. The newest insanity is all this effort to totally defund all police. I don't care about the police, but the implications of such an effort are massive. Without police, civil militias will form to protect the local communities. We approaching a new era, and the world will never be the same.

I think we're heading back into the dark ages, truthfully.

I can see you're a glass half full kinda guy

Oh, great, sarcasm.

I'm a realist.

Actually, I believe if you're in fucking HELL, you should turn it into a FUCKING party.
So that's dumb to assume.

I understand that people get unnerved by catastrophic ideas,  but the second wave of coronavirus us already picking up.
So, I think it's silly as fuck to keep your head in the sad.
Expect a more severe financial crash in the coming months.

Oh, but of course that could never happen, right!
Haha.

Just accept that the world is gonna fundamentally change more than you expect it will.
Take a break from the news if it stirs you that much.

I really don't know how to even respond to people about these issues, but very few people out there are even capable of having a mature discussion about it, without getting stuck in a fear-based mentality. Not my problem if people can't handle catastrophic outcomes.
I'm also not trying to "wake people up" like Alex fucking Jones either.
I'm pretty detached at this point. I'm in good spirits and optimistic about my future, no matter how crazy the world gets.

I got shot at like 2 weeks ago, so clearly I'm less likely to be manipulated by mainstream media and be their stooges. This shit doesn't bother me. At all. Just let FATE take its course. It will turn out as it will.

You're on a fucking Noise forum. So I'd infer you'd hold up better than the average man who gets all his news from politicised mainstream media.

Actually looks like nations with a strong social security net and working democratic institutions are doing A LOT better with COVID than nations without them. I'd include China, because while they're not a democracy they actually do have fairly good social security as well as a high level or organization and relatively well educated populace.

Russia, Africa, The US and South America will be on the losing side while the EU, Canada, Australia & NZ and most of Asia will fare better.

If there will be societal collapse, it will come due to the climate crisis rather than war.

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on June 09, 2020, 04:03:13 PM
Yeah, I basically believe there will be some major Marxist restructuring of society, modeled after WW1 Russian Leninism. How their was a major class struggle, which ultimately led to the deaths of the Romanovs and the usurping of power by the Communist party.

At the start of the lockdown, I there would eventually be riots because the economy would falter, leaving many jobless and hungry.
I also believe this is more or less, gonna happen in every country, at least the Western ones, because the lockdown and political agency by groups like Antifa and Black Lives Matter would lead to civil unrest.
However, I feel the effects will be predominantly felt in America, because it is the most divisive nation around.

No matter who is the President, I feel it is impossible to fix the economy at this point.

So, I think we will will approach s dangerous situation where all Western powers basically fall, and the power structure will head East, to nations like Russia and China.

I am full-on expecting a post apocalyptic fallout situation. How soon? I would say, in five years' time the world will be drastically different.
I believe we will approaching a major social upheaval, unlike anything ever seen before.
I believe the damage is just only beginning.
Eventually there will be a third world war, and I see massive segments of the world population being culled.

There is absolutely no way the world will ever go back to what it was was 6 months ago. I don't see how we even could go back to the old world. The newest insanity is all this effort to totally defund all police. I don't care about the police, but the implications of such an effort are massive. Without police, civil militias will form to protect the local communities. We approaching a new era, and the world will never be the same.

I think we're heading back into the dark ages, truthfully.

US citizens have the constitutional right to assemble and protest to disregard that is to disregard the American constitution itself. As for the violence that has occurred it seems from my prospective that the police themselves are agitators of it and it would not even suprise me if undercover agents were present to try and disrupt and discredit ligimate protests. As for your remark that it doesn't matter who the US president is that is about as brain-dead a political statement as it is possible to make. Incredible as many of things that Trump has said are it is unbelievable that he threatened to deploy the US army against its own citizens. The US is currently reporting over thousand deaths per day from the virus but instead of holding to account the man given the job to run the country the same one who said the virus was a hoax and that there was nothing to worry about (in other words he was going to do nothing about it) you would rather blame China or Russia or some supposed group like antifa.

It's a shame I think and somewhat ironic that you view the BLM as a threat it's one of more interesting and positive things happening currently in the US imo also I might add that western Europe is not a stranger to socialism many important political figures from my own country were in fact socialists and we never became a communist state but are simply a democracy.

Quote from: Bob on July 31, 2020, 01:36:39 AM

US citizens have the constitutional right to assemble and protest to disregard that is to disregard the American constitution itself. As for the violence that has occurred it seems from my prospective that the police themselves are agitators of it and it would not even suprise me if undercover agents were present to try and disrupt and discredit ligimate protests. As for your remark that it doesn't matter who the US president is that is about as brain-dead a political statement as it is possible to make. Incredible as many of things that Trump has said are it is unbelievable that he threatened to deploy the US army against its own citizens. The US is currently reporting over thousand deaths per day from the virus but instead of holding to account the man given the job to run the country the same one who said the virus was a hoax and that there was nothing to worry about (in other words he was going to do nothing about it) you would rather blame China or Russia or some supposed group like antifa.

It's a shame I think and somewhat ironic that you view the BLM as a threat it's one of more interesting and positive things happening currently in the US imo also I might add that western Europe is not a stranger to socialism many important political figures from my own country were in fact socialists and we never became a communist state but are simply a democracy.

It's more political proxy army power grab Bullshit funded by totalitarian International Corporations on so many absurd levels of the Scamdemic.

(https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/057/611/069/original/73294f3e882a4bf6.png?1597225872)

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on August 11, 2020, 07:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bob on July 31, 2020, 01:36:39 AM

US citizens have the constitutional right to assemble and protest to disregard that is to disregard the American constitution itself. As for the violence that has occurred it seems from my prospective that the police themselves are agitators of it and it would not even suprise me if undercover agents were present to try and disrupt and discredit ligimate protests. As for your remark that it doesn't matter who the US president is that is about as brain-dead a political statement as it is possible to make. Incredible as many of things that Trump has said are it is unbelievable that he threatened to deploy the US army against its own citizens. The US is currently reporting over thousand deaths per day from the virus but instead of holding to account the man given the job to run the country the same one who said the virus was a hoax and that there was nothing to worry about (in other words he was going to do nothing about it) you would rather blame China or Russia or some supposed group like antifa.

It's a shame I think and somewhat ironic that you view the BLM as a threat it's one of more interesting and positive things happening currently in the US imo also I might add that western Europe is not a stranger to socialism many important political figures from my own country were in fact socialists and we never became a communist state but are simply a democracy.

It's more political proxy army power grab Bullshit funded by totalitarian International Corporations on so many absurd levels of the Scamdemic.

Thank you, sir, for responding so I don't have to.
It's quite bewildering how people can think it is anything other than what it is.

Hilarious even. People should KNOW that mass movements are always intrinsically, HORSESHIT.

That naivete must be a powerful drug, one can imagine..

Quote from: AnonMessAgeSage on August 15, 2020, 05:47:31 PM


Hilarious even. People should KNOW that mass movements are always intrinsically, HORSESHIT.

"Should" - Are you advocating a mass movement that people should know mass movements are always intrinsically, HORSESHIT.? ;-)

Oh, you fucking smart aleck, you.

I'm saying humans shouldn't be total naive dumb asses, and I'm genuinely surprised people act as of they were born yesterday.

But perhaps I shouldn't be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HFxVvrXjCg
Some basic concepts for contemplating....
Global Corporate Technocracy Kabal political powergrabs are not "edgey" or "cool".
Social Engineering agendas are not "organic" movements.
Unfortunately, most humans are apathetic dumb ass slaves to a corrupted sick society.
Such is always exploited using social policing as it's main control method.

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on August 16, 2020, 08:03:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HFxVvrXjCg
Some basic concepts for contemplating....
Global Corporate Technocracy Kabal political powergrabs are not "edgey" or "cool".
Social Engineering agendas are not "organic" movements.
Unfortunately, most humans are apathetic dumb ass slaves to a corrupted sick society.
Such is always exploited using social policing as it's main control method.

Sorry i didnt watch the whole video. But given its all true, does the video and its proponents, yourself? offer a 'better' alternative for 'the people'?

Plato's republic? No artists.....