Evenin' troops,
I'm exploring mixing harsher elements of noise with a more compositional, rhythmic and song-based approach, so I'm looking for any feedback/advice. I used to release under the name Chav Stabber, but that was largely just improvised and recorded on-the-fly, as well as being more about chaotic, harsh noise.
The new project, Japsi, is more about working-class anger and hatred in Britain today. I'm still developing the sound, but I've hit a point where I feel drawn back to harsh noise and need some inspiration to stick to structure. It's been a while since I've been involved in noise, so I've kinda lost track of what's happening and I wondered if anyone's doing something similar? Any recommendations?
This is the most recent track I finished: https://soundcloud.com/japsinoise/underclass
There's an excellent thread called "noise and the beat" I believe if you dig around.
One record that initially turned me off due to the rhythmic/drum machine aspect was the Marshstepper 12", initially I heard it and thought "this is just not for me" but I gave it a spin recently and was kind of impressed by it. Haven't dug in enough to formulate a definite opinion but I enjoyed it the second time around.
Stromstad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4YX3Hyfv7E
Laureate "Eurekaphilia" (Hospital Productions, 2020)
That relatively recent album may fit the bill. It really surprised me. Some parts harken to a 90's rhythmic noise / industrial flavor. It wasn't what I expected and is impressively constructed—both individual songs and as an album.
Anything from Worth in the last year or two is perhaps more challenging to the concept of a "beat." I would still call it rhythmic without a doubt—and clearly "noise." The sounds that evoke my opinion bring to mind reciprocating constructions of an artist's making that don't repeat exactly in their contents' revolution. I find a thread of impression from Worth's recent output that harkens to the early Evil Moisture / Andy Bolus stories I've read of. For example, a fan blade running against a rattling, broken air conditioner or some such mechanized, reciprocal mayhem. Worth has a more composed, intentional sound, though, than Bolus's on the edge of deconstruction / falling apart / loss of control.
Here's the thread Holy Ghost mentioned. Definitely a good place to start.
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=3518.0 (http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=3518.0)
Perennial recommendation for Converter. Also as a somewhat recent Dissecting Table devotee, it's easy to recommend his first 8 or 9 albums. Not so much techno beats, but there's a whole a lot of structure. The aforementioned STROMSTAD album is top-tier (all STROM.ec material too). Anything by Sektor 304, especially their two albums on Malignant offer a lot of rhythm. I personally worship all of those artists for their willingness and success in fucking with rhythm and proper structure.
A little self promotion, "beats" show up across most Concrete Mascara releases and also figure prominently in the upcoming Screloma reissue I'm releasing on Vanity Recordings.
And if you want more techno/dance-ish oriented stuff Ant-Zen, Hymen, Hands Productions, Ad Noisem all have releases that go from excellent to very, very bad.
Quote from: holy ghost on June 16, 2020, 03:26:08 PM
There's an excellent thread called "noise and the beat" I believe if you dig around.
for sure
Noise and The Beat
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=3518.0
Industrial Techno
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=9308.0
Thank you all for the links and recommendations! Much appreciated.
I'm splitting off the Japsi project and doing a new harsh noise one too. Cannae keep away fae the noise...hahaha!
Cheers troops, I'll definitely check them all out.
Quote from: W.K. on June 16, 2020, 03:35:21 PM
Stromstad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4YX3Hyfv7E
Instant erection. Holy mother of fuck...it's like the guy pulled the sound out of my head and made it real.
The production is excellent; sounds and textures are spot on; vocals, outstanding. I think I hate this guy.
That's seriously given me some inspiration. Now, trying not to rip him off...hahaha
Quote from: MyrtleLake on June 16, 2020, 03:56:10 PM
Laureate "Eurekaphilia" (Hospital Productions, 2020)
That relatively recent album may fit the bill. It really surprised me. Some parts harken to a 90's rhythmic noise / industrial flavor. It wasn't what I expected and is impressively constructed—both individual songs and as an album.
Anything from Worth in the last year or two is perhaps more challenging to the concept of a "beat." I would still call it rhythmic without a doubt—and clearly "noise." The sounds that evoke my opinion bring to mind reciprocating constructions of an artist's making that don't repeat exactly in their contents' revolution. I find a thread of impression from Worth's recent output that harkens to the early Evil Moisture / Andy Bolus stories I've read of. For example, a fan blade running against a rattling, broken air conditioner or some such mechanized, reciprocal mayhem. Worth has a more composed, intentional sound, though, than Bolus's on the edge of deconstruction / falling apart / loss of control.
Checked out this one from Laureate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMyZgr3idlY - Definitely right up my street and brings it all together in a really raw way. Didn't expect that 80's synth part towards the end!
This live set from Worth is pretty interesting, and I see what you mean about how he challenges the whole concept of a beats. That's something I'm looking to bring to this Japsi project too, but a bit more controlled like what Laureate and STROMSTAD are doing.
These are excellent suggestions, thanks man.
Quote from: ConcreteMascara on June 16, 2020, 05:49:28 PM
Here's the thread Holy Ghost mentioned. Definitely a good place to start.
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=3518.0 (http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=3518.0)
Perennial recommendation for Converter. Also as a somewhat recent Dissecting Table devotee, it's easy to recommend his first 8 or 9 albums. Not so much techno beats, but there's a whole a lot of structure. The aforementioned STROMSTAD album is top-tier (all STROM.ec material too). Anything by Sektor 304, especially their two albums on Malignant offer a lot of rhythm. I personally worship all of those artists for their willingness and success in fucking with rhythm and proper structure.
A little self promotion, "beats" show up across most Concrete Mascara releases and also figure prominently in the upcoming Screloma reissue I'm releasing on Vanity Recordings.
And if you want more techno/dance-ish oriented stuff Ant-Zen, Hymen, Hands Productions, Ad Noisem all have releases that go from excellent to very, very bad.
I'm all about that very, very bad techno/dance...hahaha! Cheers mate, I'll need to get a list together and start buying stuff again. I've still got loads of CD-R's, tapes and all sorts from the Smell the Stench days, so I'll probably have some decent trades.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on June 16, 2020, 07:54:39 PM
Quote from: holy ghost on June 16, 2020, 03:26:08 PM
There's an excellent thread called "noise and the beat" I believe if you dig around.
for sure
Noise and The Beat
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=3518.0
Industrial Techno
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=9308.0
Cheers mukka, I hadn't seen the Industrial Techno thread so I'll need to give that a look tonight.
This recording of mine contains parts where a beat is present:
https://danieljgregory.bandcamp.com/album/eyelash-fountain
Initially intended as a collage/cut up of harsh noise, snare improv and field recordings, it developed into an almost 'techno' record towards the end. Though it obviously isn't at all, but maybe you'll hear what I mean.
Quote from: sadneck on June 17, 2020, 11:04:54 AM
This recording of mine contains parts where a beat is present:
https://danieljgregory.bandcamp.com/album/eyelash-fountain
Initially intended as a collage/cut up of harsh noise, snare improv and field recordings, it developed into an almost 'techno' record towards the end. Though it obviously isn't at all, but maybe you'll hear what I mean.
Cheers mate, I'll add that to the list!
Quote from: ConcreteMascara on June 16, 2020, 05:49:28 PM
A little self promotion, "beats" show up across most Concrete Mascara releases and also figure prominently in the upcoming Screloma reissue I'm releasing on Vanity Recordings.
Just heard this one YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S0ErgcNpUU and I see what you mean about the "beats" along the first section. Nice work, absolutely savage sounding and the switch around four minutes is really well executed.
Quote from: Japsi on June 17, 2020, 03:21:10 PM
Quote from: sadneck on June 17, 2020, 11:04:54 AM
This recording of mine contains parts where a beat is present:
https://danieljgregory.bandcamp.com/album/eyelash-fountain
Initially intended as a collage/cut up of harsh noise, snare improv and field recordings, it developed into an almost 'techno' record towards the end. Though it obviously isn't at all, but maybe you'll hear what I mean.
Cheers mate, I'll add that to the list!
Thanks! No worries if you don't get around to listening to it though. It was just interesting to me to think of it as the 'beat' element was unintended, but evolved from the initial idea and recordings.
I know a lot of people dislike beats etc in noise - why is that?
Quote from: sadneck on June 18, 2020, 10:53:35 AM
I know a lot of people dislike beats etc in noise - why is that?
Not to derail the thread (he says, derailing the thread), but it could simply be that they've yet to be persuaded by what they've heard. Giving these dislikers the benefit of the doubt it could then be up to the likers to present something more persuasive. edit Few I think would not at the very least appreciate the enthusiasm expressed in the OP (and that of others contributing herein).
Derail away, my friend!
I'm just listening to "Eyelash Fountain" as I'm writing this and it's really well put together. Everything has its own space in the mix, and those little chopped up paradiddles sound beefy as fuck while avoiding that horrible 'boxy' sound in the lower mids. I know production values aren't often a big deal in noise, but there's a 'sheen' to your work here that I really like. It's got that Dadaist vibe, but presented in a more, for want of a better word, futuristic or modern way; modern musique concrete, with humour. Hahahaha!
I've had a read through the beat-related thread that was linked earlier, but there, unsurprisingly, doesn't seem to be any consensus on the subject. It does seem like some people enjoy the martial beat sort of style or compound time/erratic beats, rather than metered 4/4 stuff which, given the context, makes sense to me. I had played around with 4/4, almost parodic gabber on a track years ago but, listening to it now, it's just predictable, dull and shows a beginner at work.
As for why people don't really seem to like the 4/4 beat, or at least a 'commercial' beat/break/loop in noise: I suspect it's largely rooted in our love of the irregular and transgressive.
To me, it's something that needs to be done right or not done at all. Having the amen break, chopped up and replayed at 200bpm then fired through a fuzz pedal doesn't make for 'good' noise.
4/4 represents the beat of the factory floor; of pedestrian footsteps. Those of us fascinated by noise and experimental music seem to be drawn away from that, both in our music and lives. There's probably a whole deep philosophical discussion to be had, but the simple answer would be that "the beat" represents the musical conventions that we, as noise artists, seek to transcend.
My most recent full-on noise track has a looped sample of noise from my computer, but I wouldn't call it a beat or a metered rhythm.
The repetition creates a rhythmic base of sorts, but nothing intentional.
https://soundcloud.com/understand-david/b-aim
It made me think about the role intent plays in using a beat or rhythm in noise, which gives a whole other dimension to the discussion.
Will check out your work. I am a big fan of repetition generally, permeated with chaos, of course.
Probably written all this elsewhere on this forum already, but Alberich was a strong gateway for me into the noise world. A good stepping stone from my techno head.
Quote from: Japsi on June 18, 2020, 05:12:28 PM
I'm just listening to "Eyelash Fountain" as I'm writing this and it's really well put together. Everything has its own space in the mix, and those little chopped up paradiddles sound beefy as fuck while avoiding that horrible 'boxy' sound in the lower mids. I know production values aren't often a big deal in noise, but there's a 'sheen' to your work here that I really like. It's got that Dadaist vibe, but presented in a more, for want of a better word, futuristic or modern way; modern musique concrete, with humour. Hahahaha!
Thanks, I appreciate that.
I get what you're saying about 4/4 beats, but I think the appeal (to me at least) is exactly because it's kind of 'work-man' like and represents a heart beat or factory floor feel. I get that can be off putting for some, but I think to totally disregard some noise just because it has a 'beat' to it is kinda dumb, but each to their own I suppose.
QuoteI get what you're saying about 4/4 beats, but I think the appeal (to me at least) is exactly because it's kind of 'work-man' like and represents a heart beat or factory floor feel. I get that can be off putting for some, but I think to totally disregard some noise just because it has a 'beat' to it is kinda dumb, but each to their own I suppose.
I agree, it's shortsighted to just dismiss noise because it's got some form of 'conventional' beat. The whole industrial sound was all about those factory floor beats; replicating the sounds of the machine-like heartbeats and screeching cacophony of metal on metal.
I enjoy using beats, and even 4/4, but I prefer to avoid going down the route of using an 808 kick and then slamming it through saturation. I think that's where I draw a distinction when it comes to beats and noise: Beats are great, rhythm is great but...just taking techno or even IDM and distorting it seems lazy to me.
Your stuff makes great use of rhythmic elements in an unconventional way. It's not 'on grid' or locked into a groove, but it's got that implied grind that pulls the piece forward.
Quote from: Japsi on June 18, 2020, 05:39:55 PMThe repetition creates a rhythmic base of sorts, but nothing intentional.
https://soundcloud.com/understand-david/b-aim
For mine, I'm not sure I'd even call that "rhythmic". The stuttering of the lower track is more arbitrary. Definitely reminds me of a home printer refusing to work, which is the usual experience of anyone who's had a home printer.
Four/four beats can work in Noise and Industrial well enough. One of my current favourite PE anthems is Thorofon's "Riot Dictator". In fact, there's one or two rhythmic gems on that whole "Final Movement" album.
https://ant-zen.bandcamp.com/album/final-movement (https://ant-zen.bandcamp.com/album/final-movement)
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on June 19, 2020, 03:00:00 PM
Quote from: Japsi on June 18, 2020, 05:39:55 PMThe repetition creates a rhythmic base of sorts, but nothing intentional.
https://soundcloud.com/understand-david/b-aim
For mine, I'm not sure I'd even call that "rhythmic". The stuttering of the lower track is more arbitrary. Definitely reminds me of a home printer refusing to work, which is the usual experience of anyone who's had a home printer.
Four/four beats can work in Noise and Industrial well enough. One of my current favourite PE anthems is Thorofon's "Riot Dictator". In fact, there's one or two rhythmic gems on that whole "Final Movement" album.
https://ant-zen.bandcamp.com/album/final-movement (https://ant-zen.bandcamp.com/album/final-movement)
That's a fair point, it really doesn't have anything like a pattern to it and I use the word "rhythmic" very loosely. It was a sample of my PC, recorded on a Sanyo Talkbook and then chopped and looped to form the foundation.
Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check that out today!
Thanks for the Stromstad recommendations, been blasting out New Devoted Human today and it is very impressive.
Quote from: Soloman Tump on June 21, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Thanks for the Stromstad recommendations, been blasting out New Devoted Human today and it is very impressive.
Definitely a solid recommendation. I'd never have heard of them, or IFOTS if it wasn't for this forum, but both have become firm favourites and inspired me greatly.
When I heard those, I just thought "fuck it, these guys have already done it"...hahaha!
If you guys like STROMSTAD be sure to check out Vigilantism as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn2UNeQ2SEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC_v0cApj_g
Anyone here familiar with Bad Tracking from Bristol?
The new EP is pretty great
https://badtrackinguk.bandcamp.com/album/killing-order-ep
Blown-out distortion, gutteral vocals and harshness. Also recommend the Widower EP from last year.