This shit is going to be mandatory for sellers starting October 1st. Anyone set this up already? Well it was quite good, without this extra hassle.
Probably going to wait out and see what will happen. Only looking at the policy editor gives me a headache already.
QuoteWhat will happen if you have no Shipping Policies?
If you don't have a Shipping Policy set up, or it doesn't cover all your potential orders (see above), your listings will show up as unavailable in the Buyer's region. You won't be blocked or banned from the Marketplace, but (prospective) Buyers won't be able to purchase from you.
Can I set up Shipping Policies for some countries and not others?
You control where you're willing to ship to. If you'd like to only ship domestically, set up a Shipping Policy for your own country (again, make sure it covers all potential orders by format, quantity, and weight). Your listings will appear as unavailable to buyers outside of your country.
It's the same process if you want to offer your inventory to only a handful of countries. Your listings will show up where you have complete Shipping Policies set up and will be unavailable in the countries with no Shipping Policies.
aiaiaiai, not being able to sell nazi stuff, alright Discogs, I understand, but this.......
Quote from: W.K. on September 18, 2020, 11:55:42 AM
aiaiaiai, not being able to sell nazi stuff, alright Discogs, I understand, but this.......
Not able to sell it, okay, but why the fuck do they still allow to list them up on their precious site if it's sooooo bad?
My shipping policies are quite simply as is, and to be honest I don't want to be bothered doing this shit. And forcing this as requirement looks shady to me. Unfortunately discogs has been my primary noise "income". But I'm really getting fed up with all this corporate shit getting worse everywhere with big marketing guys in their meetings decide what people want or not.
It's very annoying to say the least, even if I just use Discogs non-professionally on the side to sell odds and sods in my collection. When the initial messages about this transition came in, I got individual policies set up to factor in orders up to 2kg in weight (any higher than that and courier services get involved, especially for international shipping) which I thought would be enough, but after getting the email yesterday from Discogs I saw that in order for the policy to be "completed" by Discogs' standards you have to also set a "flat rate" shipping cost... who knows what that could entail in size or weight?
In the end I just made another separate flat rate shipping cost for each selling region with a highly exaggerated price for item orders of any size or weight. Rather than turning off potential buyers when they see that price, my hope is that it will just make people message me directly so that we can negotiate what the actual shipping cost will be. Never had an issue with doing business like that up until now. Bottom line is I detest relying on automation and will always favour transactions with a little back and forth personal interaction between the buyer and seller.
I've been meaning to make a post about this, so I'm glad somebody else got to it before me. This is the latest in a long line of screw ups from discogs, and if you read the blog/forum posts about it, you'd see that 99%+ of the users are against it. There are way to many factors in shipping to come up with a standard policy that covers them all, and this will be nothing but a major headache with sellers either going to have to raise there postage rates, and stick it to the buyer, or they'll end up having to eat the loss every time the system screws up and only charges $10 shipping for something that ends up costing $25.
Supposedly your items will still show up in the marketplace, but people won't be able to place an order, but with luck they'll be able to contact you direct and you can proceed with the transaction outside of discogs. So, anybody reading this that buys from me off of discogs, just contact me direct in the future, not only will you get a better price, since I no longer have to pay the discogs fees, you won't have to pay the sales tax that discogs automatically charges you either.
The fact that they're still going through with this, despite the mass amounts of negative feedback, and threats of sellers boycotting discogs makes me think there's more to the story they're not telling us, so don't be surprised if in a few months from now you see them announcing the sale of discogs to ebay, or some3 other party.....
Quote from: CannibalRitual on September 18, 2020, 12:13:12 PM
Quote from: W.K. on September 18, 2020, 11:55:42 AM
aiaiaiai, not being able to sell nazi stuff, alright Discogs, I understand, but this.......
Not able to sell it, okay, but why the fuck do they still allow to list them up on their precious site if it's sooooo bad?
They are in the First Place a Database and in the Second Place a Market. So its natural that they want to include everything into the Database but won't sell everything
Quote from: Goat93 on September 18, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
They are in the First Place a Database and in the Second Place a Market. So its natural that they want to include everything into the Database but won't sell everything
Maybe to you. So depends on your perspective. One has to be really naive to think they "are" a database first, marketplace second.
Discogs is pure capitalist evil - for fools. Brilliant business idea and implementation. Those who -with a smile- will for free build a database/wiki for a company. A company that will make millions. And then proceed to let the same company take their money through the foundation that members has built...Some people want to be slaves.
Im using it, i love the database. And the items ive gotten ahold of thanks it. But fuck discogs. I'd be happy to see them go down. Like eBay has when it comes to underground music.
At first, I was resistant to this idea, but personally, I am okay with it after having switched over my account to the automated policies this week. It's been working fine so far, and even with the few international orders I've received, the shipping invoices seem to be on point. However, I am expecting to run into some issues with Discogs undercharging for international shipping at some point, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. It is going to save a massive amount of time on my end as far as not having to invoice buyers anymore, sending follow-up messages to buyers about sending payment, cancelling orders for non-payment, etc.
To be clear, my domestic policy is very simple as I offer $5 flat rate shipping for any amount of items, so that was easy to set up. The international policy took a little bit of time, but maybe 2 hours tops to set up prices and weight categories for all the possible international rates. So, being a seller that has set up their policies, I can say that it wasn't that much of a headache.
I think the automated shipping policies are great and sales are made much easier. Although it does become complicated in countries like Canada where we don't have any flat rate options like Media Mail, etc. and shipping is based on distance/region. So when it comes to shipping LPs at a flat rate you either have to take a hit, or overcharge and dissuade prospective buyers, depending on what you decide to set your rate at. Setting up per-format rates made sense, but this blanket "All Format" rule is annoying.
Utter garbage.
Discogs is getting worse and worse
Quote from: absurdexposition on September 18, 2020, 06:37:31 PMshipping is based on distance/region.
I shut down my discogs store in February and have been contemplating re-opening just to Canada/the US but probably won't just because of this. I can't tell you how many times I've been burned when an LP is .505g vs. .499g and shipping to Calgary is $24 instead of $13 or whatever.
I see their point trying to standardize things - nothing worse than seeing a record you might be interested in from some huxtable and the shipping is €40 from Germany while Total Black is shipping me multiple LPs for like €7 so I know it doesn't cost that much! But really overall I don't think it helps anything and is a deterrent for people like me who use it all the time.
Luckily I don't put too much up for sale, but this is pretty stupid and unnecessary. Could have made it an option rather than mandatory. I simply added a flat rate for US and then put a flat rate of $60 for the rest of the world so it would show up for them. Then I have a prompt telling international customers to simply send me a message or email and I will easily cancel an order and get the proper shipping.
Quote from: PTM Jim on September 18, 2020, 09:09:35 PM
Luckily I don't put too much up for sale, but this is pretty stupid and unnecessary. Could have made it an option rather than mandatory.
I think it kind of goes hand in hand with something we commented on in the past in regards to having an easier checkout process on a website vs. "email for shipping costs", etc. Once I switched to my current storefront my sales almost doubled and I did nothing extra in terms of promo or changing up what I stocked, the only change was that shipping costs were visibly available. The same can be applied here with these automated shipping policies: knowing the full price incl. shipping before even adding to cart is a big plus for buyers imo and will for sure increase sales (and payments come through faster, typically)... the headache only lies in getting everything setup and figuring out an acceptable balance for the "all format flat rate" bit. Overall it can't be much different than setting shipping prices on Big Cartel, etc. which is already a mess of inaccuracies most of us are used to.
I posted a CD to Canada in April. It turned up in August, I refunded his money in July and he refunded my refund when the CD turned up. Top bloke.
The idea that I am forced to commit to a realistic price for postage is a joke when postal companies can't provide the service. I brought an LP from 20mins drive away from me which took three weeks to be delivered. I have to explain this to my customers all the time now.
I no longer post outside of Australia because of the prices being charged by the postal carriers.
This is the wrong time to implement this shipping policy.
Good to hear you people have the same opinion.
As a buyer I don't hate it, I will admit. I've dealt with enough sellers who weren't clear in their terms and I wind up paying more or it not being registered from overseas, but I know that they have a much higher risk of getting screwed over if the package is off a touch weight wise.
Like I bought a few 7"s from someone in British Columbia last year and it worked out that sending two packets letter mail was cheaper than sending 4 7"s (two $4 packages vs $18) so how do you account for those goofy variables. I get it, Canada is huge but so it the US, literally the only thing they have ever done that I agree with is media mail.....
Quote from: accidental on September 18, 2020, 06:02:47 PM
Quote from: Goat93 on September 18, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
They are in the First Place a Database and in the Second Place a Market. So its natural that they want to include everything into the Database but won't sell everything
Maybe to you. So depends on your perspective. One has to be really naive to think they "are" a database first, marketplace second.
Discogs is pure capitalist evil - for fools. Brilliant business idea and implementation. Those who -with a smile- will for free build a database/wiki for a company. A company that will make millions. And then proceed to let the same company take their money through the foundation that members has built...Some people want to be slaves.
Im using it, i love the database. And the items ive gotten ahold of thanks it. But fuck discogs. I'd be happy to see them go down. Like eBay has when it comes to underground music.
Not sure how long you use Discogs, i used it already before it went to be a market place. So, it went into Capitalism after a while and the fault for the changes are not the Owner, more likely the Users. The Users are the ones who wanted the banning of products and the users are happy to spend millions for Records. Actualy i think its "naive" to think, there exist a "Underground" and that a Market place is "evil". But its not my Problem after all.
And don't forget, the Postage Problems are not made from Discogs. Selling is a Pain in the Ass nowadays, but its not cause of the Selling Markets itself. Idiotic Censor Loving Assholes, Shitty Delivery Services with rising Prices for nothing and Insane Customers are more and more common. Its getting frustrating really fast.
edit:
I like Bandcamp. You can directly buy from the Artist/Store and they actualy are relative fee free thanks to Covid019 sometimes.
^yeah, i hear you on the "insane customers".... i guess it must be "those crazy kids" who think if they pay $7 total for an item that costs $3 to ship and has $1 in fees for the seller attached to it, that the sellers world should be revolving around packing, shipping, and updating about said item on a daily basis. like just keep your $3 and don't bother me - i don't have a customer service rep to placate your anxious selfish ass.
Selling might be a pain in the ass but buying is getting pretty annoying as well. About a quarter of the items i buy are not graded right or people have listed the wrong version of a record. Would be nice if sellers could upload pictures of the items they're selling.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It goes without saying that this will push a lot of casual marketplace users out, as well as force buyers and/or sellers to make some financial compromise. I anticipate Discogs taking a considerable loss in turn of this needless convolution and I think that serves them right. I have nothing but appreciation for the (user built) database, but I'm honestly beginning to prefer eBay as a selling platform.
I am not sure i understand correctly since i dont have a seller account to see the changes. I guess with the new changes the invoice stage no longer exists and buyer can buy and pay instantly. Seller cant refund and cancel the order if postage turns out to be more expensive ? In this case Discogs still claims its fee ? It's a valid reason and only assholes would leave negative feedback in this case, and no serious potential buyer would worry from it anyway.
From buyer's perspective, mine, it's good to know shipping costs / policies beforehand. Either that be written in seller's terms or automaticaly. To avoid surprises.
Maybe Discogs doing this cause they want to cut communications between buyer / seller ? I, many times, when i ask for shipping costs, i offer to do it out of Discogs, so i, he, we save the fee.
Quote from: Theodore on September 20, 2020, 06:00:00 AM
From buyer's perspective, mine, it's good to know shipping costs / policies beforehand. Either that be written in seller's terms or automaticaly. To avoid surprises.
As a discogs buyer of almost 10 years I would never buy something without seeing the terms or messaging first. I've been burned!!
I'm seeing people just list "$1000" for shipping and then instruct the buyer to contact them about an actual rate. So there's always around it for small sellers.
Quote from: holy ghost on September 20, 2020, 02:42:25 PM
I'm seeing people just list "$1000" for shipping and then instruct the buyer to contact them about an actual rate. So there's always around it for small sellers.
Scrolling down the list when searching for an item and there's $1000 noted for shipping I would just ignore it and look at the next one. Otherwise, might have been drinking and then one wrong click too much and it's taken off your PayPal.....
Jesus fucking christ....
So, I decided to set up polices yesterday and today with an attitude of: 'I'm not going to get pissed off about this - how hard can it be'?
Well that attitude soon evaporated.... Two hours in of what should have been an easy and straight forward set up, I am still getting 'incomplete policy' messages - and the fucking system only give vague and not specific indications if what the issue is.
I gave up yesterday, with a view to coming back at it today, and someone already took advantage of making a 'flat rate' order, where it was my mistake on how that policy had been set up. Considering whether to cancel that order or not...
Another hour this morning and it is still saying 'incomplete policy', but I have checked every line item etc.
If Discogs are intent on pushing this through - fuck me - at least they should make it seamless and a five minute exercise. I expect a huge exodus from sellers from the platform - not in complaint - but in frustration and folks simply giving up trying to set up these standardised postage rules.
Quote from: re:evolution on September 21, 2020, 01:25:29 AM
Another hour this morning and it is still saying 'incomplete policy', but I have checked every line item etc.
.....so, the issue was with the 'all formats' postage rule. The Discogs system requires that the minimum order value MUST be set to '$0.00' for the policy to be deemed valid. If that is the case - why the fuck give an option to set a higher value which will consequently make the policy invalid?
This new standardised system clearly proves the saying:
'a camel is a horse designed by committee'.
Quote from: re:evolution on September 21, 2020, 02:30:40 AM
Quote from: re:evolution on September 21, 2020, 01:25:29 AM
Another hour this morning and it is still saying 'incomplete policy', but I have checked every line item etc.
.....so, the issue was with the 'all formats' postage rule.
Yeah, setting up the per-format rates is extremely simple, but this All Format thing doesn't make any sense and they haven't done a very good job at providing a walk through or examples other than just saying "do this".
Edit: seems like it exists partly because they didn't code all formats into the shipping policy editor as yet... (VHS, shellac, etc)
so how are you able to merge orders? I guess this is no longer possible? Has been handy few times.
The buyers are not required to pay immediately, so until they pay everything like merging/adjusting invoice can be done as normal.
ok thanks for clearing that up!
If the buyers aren't required to pay immediately and the sellers were already advertising their shipping rates, making the offerings transparent, then what exactly is this system supposed to achieve?
Quote from: theotherjohn on September 22, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
One other thing: have they shortened the selling histories for some items to a year or another cutoff point (x amount of copies sold)? I checked a few listings recently and I'm sure their histories used to span for a few years, if not back until the marketplace got introduced. I could be wrong but if not, some entrepreneur/coding wizard could make a browser addon and website that tracks the complete price/selling data of Discogs (much like others have done for Amazon etc). Add in-price tracking with email notifications to say when something is listed under a customer defined price and you're winning.
This is cut to allegedly the 10 (but I just looked at an item with 18) most recent sales and has been like that for some time. Which makes sense, as more/older history becomes irrelevant when doing price research.
Quote from: theotherjohn on September 22, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
I could be wrong but if not, some entrepreneur/coding wizard could make a browser addon and website that tracks the complete price/selling data of Discogs (much like others have done for Amazon etc). Add in-price tracking with email notifications to say when something is listed under a customer defined price and you're winning.
And that's the only hope, cause if you wait from Discogs staff it will never happen. They dont even have introduced a new much neccesary function to seperate wantlist from stuff you want to get notification emails for ! - They allow sellers to reannounce their stuff everyday, the same and the same sellers with the same stuff everytime i open the marketplace. I wish i could block them. Seriously, i dont think this helps them, gives buyer the impression it's always there. - As for notification emails, i had turn them off in a week once i tried them, cause of that.
Also, to help the database running and expanding, and give contributors something back, they could for every newly added release when it sells for first time -and only then- for 5EUR and above, to give the guy who added it 50cent credit points, and when he has enough to buy a release Discogs to pay for him using his credit. - What's the use of their fucking rank points ?! What they think contributors are ? Kids ? At least respect them and dont fool them with rankings and such shit.
I suspect people working for Discogs dont use Discogs, and they dont care to ask and listen.
That said, Discogs database is the best place in the internet. OK, one of the best at least. And their marketplace useful, no matter its cons.
Maybe their sales history is the reason prices go up all the time. I think yes.
Quote from: Theodore on September 25, 2020, 04:28:53 AM
They allow sellers to reannounce their stuff everyday, the same and the same sellers with the same stuff everytime i open the marketplace. I wish i could block them.
Yes, so annoying. My List of new items from my waitlist for sale is 90% the same stuff everyday.. What are these sellers thinking?
Quote from: impulse manslaughter on September 25, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Quote from: Theodore on September 25, 2020, 04:28:53 AM
They allow sellers to reannounce their stuff everyday, the same and the same sellers with the same stuff everytime i open the marketplace. I wish i could block them.
Yes, so annoying. My List of new items from my waitlist for sale is 90% the same stuff everyday.. What are these sellers thinking?
It led me to remove everything from my want list. Simple solution. Usually I just buy something straight away when I need it. There's discogs users with 1000ths of entries in their want list, will they ever get their stuff?
Setting it up right now, so far it's certainly better than bigcartel it seems. I've tried setting that up, but couldn't figure out how to let it resemble anything near actual shipping costs without undercharging or overcharging by a lot depending on how many items are ordered.
Problem I'm seeing now is that I didn't know what flat rate shipping is. Started looking for it, then I understand why that is. If I understand correctly, Belgian postal system doesn't have a flat rate shipping option. For which I have to congratulate discogs immediately. Great job thinking that post works the same in every country and you don't have the option to disable flat rate. Slow clap, well done!
It could be a good thing for me, I've lost orders due to steep shipping costs, but some people order then pull out when shipping is too expensive, other people just send a message, so it's not a problem or shouldn't be. But I understand that for a lot of people in these times it's too much to simply send a message. So probably people have not ordered or sent me messages because of that, so let's see if some more orders come in now.
The bulk of orders from discogs probably goes through professional and not so professional labels and distros, but I wonder what percentage of their sales is just from people who want to get rid of some second hand items or their own artist copies. I regularly come across those kind of lists, with less then 100 items. Will these people do the effort of setting it up? Or will they just search for another channel? If they go elsewhere and that percentage is big enough, discogs might loose money on it rather than earn more... Though I realise that probably won't be the case...
One extra problem I come across: I regularly ship CDs without jewel case, because that makes them weigh less than 100g, so shipping is almost half, so regularly people choose that option. Digipaks also mostly weigh less than 100g and are thus cheaper to ship. No way to do this with this system, too bad, I guess...
I had removed most of my 2nd hand inventory from discogs before the announcement for new policies came. When it happened, it was good moment to remove rest of the stuff. Some stuff is now with cheaper prices in 2nd hand items of my own store. It's been a while since I last used discogs even for purchases. It is of course related to fringe scenes one deals with, but fairly random way of banning items, increasing fees, complicated ways of doing things... it's not something I feel the need of using. So much more easier to focus on own things, than spread out all over different platforms.
Just got a domestic order for 2 cassette tapes and it invoiced the buyer for $0 shipping. Thankfully the buyer noticed and asked for a proper invoice. My policies have been set up and were working fine until I implemented required the "All Formats" thing, but it should have (incorrectly) charged the buyer $12, not $0...
Just read they postponed the shipping policies requirement for one more month. Thanks to all the great feedback from the community, yeah sure thing bitches!! Didn't even get more orders since I switched so they also lied to me when they said it will result in drastic increase, ha! ;)
I haven't set up those automatic shipping values. And what I have read here it would be pain in the ass for few hours, especially when you are shipping from Finland and there are multiple options.. maybe I stop selling in discogs and just unload my shit to resellers. Even thought I won't get that much money in return, but I will save hours (prob days) what it takes to set up things + packing and posting, etc.
I am planning on getting back into the discogs game - it wasn't too hard but pretty stupid. I'm basically going to say "don't pay until you message me" and hope my small fish seller account doesn't get too fucked. If I start losing money I'm out.
I have actually made a whole bunch of sales in the past two days - and then I've also received a number of emails from Americans complaining about my shipping rates. So who knows, I have clearly stated that I have set the rates high and will refund any difference or to email for a direct quote but people seem to be not reading my clearly stated terms.
it seems the same to me?
i say 'free shipping in the usa' in the item description, charge $0 on the invoice, and just raise price of item acccordingly.
if it goes overseas i add in the amount on the invoice.
i just sold a tape for $12 last week, it was a domestic sale to someone else here in the states, and the process was the same as its always been...?
so you let discogs collect their fees for shipping too?
Quote from: CannibalRitual on October 05, 2020, 04:13:41 PM
so you let discogs collect their fees for shipping too?
True. Don't do that James. If anything charge less for the tape and more for shipping.
honestly that didnt even occur to me.
maybe thats why i dont sell much through websites... too many logistical problems/work. now that it has been brought to my attention, i do see your point... but i'm not a label/distro selling the majority of my product through the discogs platform. i dont think anyone is making enough bank to really care about the $20 a month i make off selling on discogs. i buy much more on there then i sell.
when i have copies of my own releases available almost all of them go through having direct contact with me... as in someone personally messages me and we communicate about the sale. i like it better that way, and purposely do not have much of a internet presense anywhere... i do use IG but that forces the person who wants my stuff to have direct contact with me, so i think thats ok.
Just providing my experience after going through the process of setting up required shipping polices.
Basically I sent up base prices per unit / format for single and multiple items. But the Discogs system REQUIRES you to have postage weight brackets to apply to all orders for the shipping polices to be deemed 'complete'. OK - I did that too - and tried to work weight brackets to match per unit / format type postage prices.
But since having these 'standardised' polices the postage seems to be ONLY calculated on weight. The system then only factors in the assumed weight of the ordered items, but then does not factor in the actual packaging, which would push the parcel into the next weight /postage bracket.
This has happened with two orders already where I have to request additional postage or cancel the order. Just another example of things becoming more complicated when trying to make something more streamlined.
Quote from: re:evolution on November 19, 2020, 11:41:39 PM
Just providing my experience after going through the process of setting up required shipping polices.
Basically I sent up base prices per unit / format for single and multiple items. But the Discogs system REQUIRES you to have postage weight brackets to apply to all orders for the shipping polices to be deemed 'complete'. OK - I did that too - and tried to work weight brackets to match per unit / format type postage prices.
But since having these 'standardised' polices the postage seems to be ONLY calculated on weight. The system then only factors in the assumed weight of the orders items but then does not factor in the actual packaging, which would push the parcel into the next weight /postage bracket.
This has happened with two orders already where I have to request additional postage or cancel the order. Just another example of things becoming more complicated when trying to make something more streamlined.
It's unnecessary ball ache on the part of Discogs.I just left everything as it was. Even though the items I have will appear as 'unavailable' to any potential buyer, people seem to be aware of all the complications so they just ask me to calculate shipping for the items they want. Last few customers have just listed the items they wanted & asked me for a shipping total.
Already set up that crap sometime ago.
The weight of the item must include the weight of the package of that item itself or in the end, we'll be paying more on postage than what we charged.
And in the end, we'll need to take extra care not to go above the weight we set in the first place, instead of taking extra care on making a solid package.
The shit side of automated systems.
And no, that shit doesn't rise the number of orders, the total opposite for me.
Yeah I did okay initially when I reopened my store but for less "HOT" noise stuff I'm selling I haven't had an order in weeks. Usually I average one or two per week. I generally don't get bent out of shape when a big platform makes changes but this is.... not good.
Honestly I would much rather there be a way for the system to calculate how much it will cost to ship and then you just print off a fucking invoice and skip the entire process altogether. That would make sense. This does not.
I set everything up quite a while ago, then received no orders from over a month. After asking around, someone offered me to check my list and he sent me print screen, turns out every single item was priced as having a shipping cost of €16. That's what you get when you can't check for yourself if everything is set up good. Discogs providing no way to run tests to see if everything works, is a huge fault on their part.
Right, then, why did it list everything with that price? Turns out that it was always presenting my "flat rate shipping" policy (I'm talking about shipping packages from Belgium to other European countries). Why? Because apparently you can drag the lines (lines with "all items", "CD shipping policy", "tape shipping policy"...) and change the order. So, when the "all items" policy is on top, it will always show that. Dragged it to the botom, now it works.
I've set it up per item, not per weight. Because I know that I can ship 3 CDs for a certain price f.e. Only downside to that is that I can't offer cheaper shipping for a single digipak or CD without jewelcase (as that weighs less than 100g). Of course, people are welcome to inquire about that.
Anyway, since fixing that, I've had a couple of orders. Too early to say if it's more or less than before, since most orders usually come early in the month, but I doubt it will turn into a goldmine.
I've been thinking about ditching discogs as well, but I think I'm nearly not well known enough or have a loyal customers base enough to expect them to follow.
Another complaint to blow off some steam, and it's probably because I'm oblivious to all the changes Discogs is making, but since when did we need to contact the support team to cancel an order that has already been invoiced??? Like why can't I even control my selling process, we're not a bunch of children for fuck sake.
Okay but I haven't set-up the shipping policies, and looks like Discogs is threatening me I can't be selling anymore:
"Complete your shipping policies: Your items are currently unavailable. Please complete your shipping policies to make them available again. "
Grrrrr...looks like I do need to put some effort in it. Can't we burn them offices down or something?
Solely based on my own experiences I don't think it was particularly hard to set up shipping policies and they have so far been accurate. (However, I do prefer the way things were before.) It's early to say of course and there are undoubtedly other factors to consider as well this being a special year but I do notice quite a lot fewer orders coming via Discogs, but instead a noticeable increase of orders coming via the webstore, which is preferable. I'd imagine that this may mean that some private sellers looking to offload some tapes etc are deterred from using Discogs and may instead use other channels such as this forum more frequently for that purpose and that ought to be preferable, too. So, while this probably wasn't the best idea Discogs has had, I think it might not be so bad for the "scene" itself. You can put it this way: Discogs is still useful but decreasingly so for the genres of interest to us.
Ugh, so finally got around setting this up, which went fairly easy. But apparently for multiple items shipping costs
are still fucked up. Eventhough i set the weight of individual items and set my policies in weight tiers...
What a hassle.
I think many people set it up wrong. Often seen a CD being sold with shipping costs 12€ and if you read back on their original shopping costs it says 7€.
I'm still waiting for that massive flood of new orders they promised. It's rather the opposite, but don't think related to the new policies....
I suppose many have seen latest discogs change. It sort of reminds me how Finnish post marketed their letter price change to businesses. People who have ordered stuff from me that is being sent in those while letters, they were basically roughly 7 euro to buy, 500g maximum weight. Couple years ago, they announced that only modest price adjustment, charging like 1 euro more... but besides that, not only price changed, but maximum weigh was dropped to 250g. Or was it 300g. Anyways, basically former letter you could send 4 jewel box CD for 7 euro, now it would be like 2 CD's for 8 euro. "Only small increase" actually in most cases, makes it multiple times higher. 4 CD's formerly shipped for 7, now 4 CD's could be 16 euro - making it about the same as just send as package. They did say that all old envelopes function as they did, so any old 500g letters you have pre-paid, works fine. I still got boxes of those and price have remained the same until I run out of envelopes. When? Who knows.. depends how much orders keep coming, yet at some point new postage rates will apply, and they might be horrible. Lets see that when time comes.
In similar way, latest discogs change, they claimed they only did modest 1% increase in fee. Formerly 8% fee is now 9%. Not bad, except that now it applies to both item AND shipping. When shipping is such a massive price, I would estimate this will make selling cheap item in discogs completely obsolete.
Let's say, you got seller with 5,- noise CD. Postage is 15,-. Total price 20,-
9% out of 20 is 1,80. Then mandatory PayPal fee, I guess something around 3,5% + 0,50 = 1,20
so total fees... 3,-
Does it make sense to sell 5,- tape, CD or LP, if 3,- goes to fees? Does it make sense to sell 10 euro 2nd hand LP, if high postage included in fee calculation takes half of its value into fees? Is this somehow intentional way to clean up discogs from discount releases? Aim to lift the profile into valuable and collectable stuff? Now that you got items for sale at 2 euro or so, think about selling such items to someone... 2e tape, 15 euro shipping... 17 euro... and fees according to math should be... 2,60? Taking loss for selling items that are too cheap. Discogs mentioned that sellers will have to adjust prices themselves. Sure. I guess in near months we will see low priced items disappearing from market. If it is actually less costs to throw something into garbage, than sell it, I can't see reason why people would keep them listed on the platform.
This may be also nuisance for labels who run new item distro via discogs.
I personally have no problem really. Haven't been buying anything from discogs for ages, all inventory been removed long ago. But I feel a bit cautious what kind of effect this has in underground that has perhaps too much relied on services of couple bigger platforms?
i assume this increase will also have an effect on prices in general as almost all shops & dealers nowadays check discogs and price accordingly. so if prices on discogs rise they will probably rise outside of discogs too.
I have stoped updating my discogs store some motnhs ago, but still get an order there from time to time, I'll take it off as soon as I complete the last order I got. Paying fees two times (discogs and paypal eating a % from the same initial value) for the same sale... no thanks.
This will be very bad for small distros because Discogs was a good way for getting exposure and get people actually buy from smaller distros, instead of the same big/older ones. Without that, small distro will not work and smaller labels will probably reduce it even more.
Anyways, my first option in Discogs, as a buyer, is to message the seller with an offer to do it out of their platform, and with a price that excludes the fee. Usually, i ask for a little more discount than just that, heh. I havent anyone say NO to this, yet. Ofcource may not be convenient if you buy just a CD or if it is a 'buy now, before anyone else' situation, but saving 7-8 Euros on a 50EUR order, it is something. And makes the difference between a good purchase and 'no, pricey, i ll buy something else instead' . I encourage anyone to do it this way.
I guess it is matter of time before Discogs try to block this practice ?
Quote from: Theodore on May 05, 2023, 03:21:51 PM
...
They already do. And writing this on an open forum is beyond stupid.
Quote from: accidental on May 05, 2023, 08:17:51 PM
They already do. And writing this on an open forum is beyond stupid.
Yes, they have no idea what messages we exchange in their platform, neither that this is possible and reasonable, so they surf on forums for info ...
But how they already do ? What they do ? I had no problem so far.
Quote from: accidental on May 05, 2023, 08:17:51 PM
Quote from: Theodore on May 05, 2023, 03:21:51 PM
...
They already do. And writing this on an open forum is beyond stupid.
Try to sell, send, buy, release records, pay fees to discogs, pay fees to PayPal, spend time to different postal options...if this is stupid...maybe it is. There is much more activities to use your time. Maybe ice fishing is much more satisfying then. I have personally raised my hands up. Not worth of my money, time and mental care this cursed web anymore. I feel really sorry for people who try to figure things out in this wind and try to get atleas some own...
Discogs is the Airbnb of the records collection world, I personally use it a lot for old stuff (which at the moment constitutes 75 % of my purchases) and I cannot avoid seeing how its policy and the "competition" between collectors contribute to creating are actually also destroying the fun of collecting music with the insane price increase of the last 1-2 years. This new price increase is another cherry on the top of the cake.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 05, 2023, 11:12:44 AMIn similar way, latest discogs change, they claimed they only did modest 1% increase in fee. Formerly 8% fee is now 9%. Not bad, except that now it applies to both item AND shipping. When shipping is such a massive price, I would estimate this will make selling cheap item in discogs completely obsolete.
Somehow I could have lived with 9% but making you pay a fee for the shipping cost is where I get off - completely. It is so greedy and nonsensical and I'm just out. I'll sell on forums, instagram and at record fests from now on. At this rate it used to be worth the fees to get a better return than a record store would give you but not any more. I'd already eliminated overseas shipping and was only doing North 'murica - as you know tracked shipping internationally from Canada is ludicrously expensive. And I'm just too casual to learn how to use chit chats or a private courier.
Yeah, some friend just concluded yesterday that this might be giving (2nd hand) record stores worthy function again. Suddenly getting 2 euro for CD or 5 euro for LP ain't that bad. It might be the same you would get after fees and all the work when selling something at discogs.
I know there are different kinds of customers and markets out there, but as record store owner, I face the devastated sellers every month. Meaning guys, who have good stuff, and have browsed a bit discogs, and think they have amazing collection worth a lot of money. Then I can mention that almost none of this stuff is worth what discogs says. Not here.
Out of the realistic money one gets for them, you get like half. Or 1/3. So album that someone would buy for 10 euro, you get 4 euro. Rest goes to taxes and couple euro "profit" for shop. So... when thinking your "discogs average" is suddenly not really accurate in real world, where idea is also to get rid of things and not wait for that 1 guy in world that pays maximum price, real world average at least over here is significantly lower. Selling to 2nd hand stores, you lose opportunity to make bigger income, but win TIME. Freeing storage space, not having to deal years and years with bozos.
One can think usual discogs situation where 50 people "want it", there are 5 copies available for X amount of money that isn't even very high.. but nobody buys it. So whatever transaction may have happened before, now it appears to be actual value starts to be visible and even if someone paid 30 euro once, it may be worth 10 or less to everybody else... I my store I see it all the time. People who would want "rare record", but in the end, don't buy it. Most of rare records take ages to sell, despite would be priced significantly lower than online.
I had discussion some years ago with guy who asked don't I buy rare collectible stuff into my store. I explained situation above. Sure it looks neat when you got rarities on shelves, but most customers prefer to buy 10 new CD's or tapes, as opposed to one 90's original Japanese noise LP. Same for metal. And I know this for my own habits too. While rare cult records can be great, there is so much great new stuff that is right now happening. I understand the hunt for old rare, but it is quite similar task when hunting for new good. What a delight it was to get couple NEW Mlehst CD's, and discover they are actually GOOD!
I have mulled over the reasons why this 9% charge on shipping fees is being implemented. I suspect that Discogs hold a view that people are 'hiding' profits in high shipping fees, so this new fee partially captures this (and will consequently encourage price of items to be increased to which their fees apply).
I also note current commentary of Discogs suggests and encourages offering 'free' postage to increase sales, which means that would be covered in the main price - again which Discogs collect their fee. This is only an observation to try to understand the reasons 'why', as on face value it just not stack up. But when I only charge the actual cost of postage, which unfortunately is high for international orders, this new 9% fee on postage is beyond fucked...
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 06, 2023, 09:19:44 AM
Yeah, some friend just concluded yesterday that this might be giving (2nd hand) record stores worthy function again. Suddenly getting 2 euro for CD or 5 euro for LP ain't that bad. It might be the same you would get after fees and all the work when selling something at discogs.
I know there are different kinds of customers and markets out there, but as record store owner, I face the devastated sellers every month. Meaning guys, who have good stuff, and have browsed a bit discogs, and think they have amazing collection worth a lot of money. Then I can mention that almost none of this stuff is worth what discogs says. Not here.
Out of the realistic money one gets for them, you get like half. Or 1/3. So album that someone would buy for 10 euro, you get 4 euro. Rest goes to taxes and couple euro "profit" for shop. So... when thinking your "discogs average" is suddenly not really accurate in real world, where idea is also to get rid of things and not wait for that 1 guy in world that pays maximum price, real world average at least over here is significantly lower. Selling to 2nd hand stores, you lose opportunity to make bigger income, but win TIME. Freeing storage space, not having to deal years and years with bozos.
One can think usual discogs situation where 50 people "want it", there are 5 copies available for X amount of money that isn't even very high.. but nobody buys it. So whatever transaction may have happened before, now it appears to be actual value starts to be visible and even if someone paid 30 euro once, it may be worth 10 or less to everybody else... I my store I see it all the time. People who would want "rare record", but in the end, don't buy it. Most of rare records take ages to sell, despite would be priced significantly lower than online.
I had discussion some years ago with guy who asked don't I buy rare collectible stuff into my store. I explained situation above. Sure it looks neat when you got rarities on shelves, but most customers prefer to buy 10 new CD's or tapes, as opposed to one 90's original Japanese noise LP. Same for metal. And I know this for my own habits too. While rare cult records can be great, there is so much great new stuff that is right now happening. I understand the hunt for old rare, but it is quite similar task when hunting for new good. What a delight it was to get couple NEW Mlehst CD's, and discover they are actually GOOD!
Well, it is obvious that selling out a big (diverse thousands of records) collection with one wholesale to a 2nd hand record shop means cutting out substantively the possible gain, but with the right time and efforts one can make the right money out of his good records I think. Of course Discogs inflated the whole market insanely by feeding the collection mania, boosted by shit like taking pictures to the record collection to boost its own ego on forums or social media.
I really hope that with this new fees increase (I didn't read good and didn't get it concerned the shipping rates as well, which is super greedy of course) makes sure that more sellers either move elsewhere (although a good amount of the oldest and rarest records are "in the hands" of shops or record flippers) or are more incline to sell outside Discogs, but to be honest I don't believe it will be bringing that many advantages.
Given the majority of physical record shops also use Discogs to flog their media, I feel like they'll be even less inclined now to take on other people's used stock if the new fees will be so drastic to affect their profits?
I don't know enough about the behind-the-scenes runnings of record shops who have the unenviable task of dealing in both new and used media to know whether they make more money on secondhand stuff than newer releases; if they do, they probably have to factor in other realistic considerations like storage beyond the shop floor for every 3-5 used releases they take in exchange for one new sale/trade, time spent on managing inventory, grading conditions and writing descriptions, any extra persons needed for packaging and sending out all the baggies they get etc. Even with all that, they probably still can't compete with the convenience of online megasellers like MusicMagpie or Medimops who with the input of a barcode can offer up an instant algorithmically generated price and free collection of goods, and continue to undercut the few remaining brick and mortar stores out there until they eventually perish.
And as for any deadstock that record shops or online megasellers they refuse to take (be it due to an overabundance of stock, an item's poor condition/quality, or a lack of consumer (read: algorithm) interest), the few remaining disposal choices are (a) to just keep holding onto it in the vain hope it regains "value" out of nostalgia or retromania, (b) to take it to charity shops/donation centres (where they will still likely remain unbought if neithe the shop nor the customer can profit from their purchase, even if priced at mere pennies or cents) or (c) thrown into the street, the landfill, the bonfire or the ocean, depending on how ecologically sound of character you are.
Secondhand companies like to say they are working in a "circular economy", but really it's closer to a spiralling economy. The question is: will the value and demand for your items spiral inwards like vinyl, outwards like a CD, or flip like a cassette?