Not sure if I'm missing something but this iconic group still seems to be lacking a dedicated thread. In 2012 I wrote this elsewhere on the SI forum:
Quote from: post-morten on May 26, 2012, 05:45:59 PM
I'd love to see :zoviet*france: being given the VOD treatment. The early albums plus selected pieces from their vast archives of unreleased material. As far as I understand they have been approached by VOD, it's "only" a matter of the different factions to come to an agreement.
So the ZF retrospectives finally happened. I have acquired the second volume of Chasse but won't have the opportunity to give it a spin for yet some time to come. Curious if anyone have opinions on the two LP's of unreleased music from their archives. How do they hold up compared to the previously released material?
I find it odd that pretty much every artist or group that were involved in laying out the foundations of the industrial scene, or followed thereafter, have their own topics (hell, even Rapoon). But not Zoviet France, who championed a style that set them apart from the contemporary industrial lot, and spawned so many great descendants with ZF dna in their lineage.
For me, after hearing and reading about ZF for some time, it started with getting the Shouting at the Ground 2LP. I was intrigued and started to collect whatever I could lay my hands on. I remember a particularly lucky mid-nineties record buying spree in London, where I scored both Mohnomishe 2LP and Gris 10" at the Record & Vinyl Exchange shop in Notting Hill Gate. I have since acquired every official release in (at least) one format or another and caught a number of concerts.
So come on and drop your ZF anecdotes... albums you liked, gigs you went to, perhaps they even influenced your own creative output?
I've never found there to be much interest, at least in talking about them. I'm not sure why that is. They were one of the first experimental groups I heard, and they quickly became a favorite. I haven't heard those unreleased albums yet. I don't really have a need for anything but those, and I'm not buying massive box sets for the hell of it. I am curious about what remastering has done to them, but not curious enough since I already have most on both LP and CD.
I don't know what it is like now, but most of their vinyl was relatively easy to find up to 2000. Maybe it still is, but I don't check Discogs for that. It seemed like 75% of the shops I visited, no matter where I was, had at least 1-2 ZF records in their used bins. Sometimes with part of the packaging missing, but they were there nonetheless.
The only thing I can add that I haven't already said on this board is that I stupidly ignored early Rapoon until 2020. I fixated on all those early albums for a few months there. I think up through 1996? Incredibly great.
You can do an advanced search with "zoviet" and my user name to find my posts. For some reason, the board doesn't offer a direct link after the search is implemented.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on January 15, 2021, 12:47:39 AM
I've never found there to be much interest, at least in talking about them. I'm not sure why that is.
I think because they just kept on keeping a low profile. They didn't stir up a lot of shit like the Broken Flag camp. They didn't dabble in the occult and esoterics like the PTV/Coil/C93 axis. They were not authoritative scene figures such as Steven Stapleton, Andrew McKenzie, or Boyd Rice. They were not active networking in the mail art underground like Nocturnal Emissions, Merzbow, the Haters, and many others. I see them as more aligned with the likes of Illusion of Safety, HNAS, or Organum: early progenitors that let the music do the speaking, never resorting to the adoption of antics or imagery that were en vogue at a particular moment in time.
Hi Mårten, been a long time!
I saw Zoviet France a few times, remember one at the punkplace Kafé 44 here in Stockholm, you probably were there too, when a punkguy regular to the place after the show went to the stage and told them something along the lines of: "i have never heard music like this before but it was fantastic" - and it was!
Hi there Magnus, yep been out of the loop for quite some time. Guess I still am but ZF pulled me back, at least temporarily.
I remember the 1997 show at Kafé 44 very well. A great evening through and through, with Pluxus supporting - their first ever gig. The ZF interview Ingrid and I did on this occasion subsequently went into the Soma 'zine. This was back in the days when they still hauled their arsenal of instruments and huge racks (photo (https://lastfm.freetls.fastly.net/i/u/770x0/05e8e71b988d4d88b9ff432343d7a4bd.webp#05e8e71b988d4d88b9ff432343d7a4bd)) around the world, being hit for excess weight at every airport check-in. Which eventually had them scaling down and going for a more digital approach. Who can blame them?
Hi Mårten
Long time no see... remember that interview well although I can't remember which issue it was. I should dig out the old zines and re-read it.
Shouting at the ground is such a great release and I'm extremely fond of Just an illusion. I most have gotten them at roughly the same time. Late eighties early nineties.
Quote from: post-morten on January 15, 2021, 01:11:39 AM
Quote from: Zeno Marx on January 15, 2021, 12:47:39 AM
I've never found there to be much interest, at least in talking about them. I'm not sure why that is.
I think because they just kept on keeping a low profile.
Well, they did at least have the name. In the late 80s, in my town, I'd wager ZF were by far the most played project on college radio. And whichever whomever radio dj would always make a point of pronouncing the name with the quintessential smirky voice of mock authority. When I was a kid the project always held its own mystery or mythos, probably just from the name itself! But listening to the shit has always carried with it (and now perhaps more than ever) the fine fetor of indistinct, shadowy, slightly smudged or smeared...rite of initiation. Or some shit.
Yes, the name - and the various ways it was written - were iconic and somewhat iconoclastic! First heard them on the "A Bead To A Small Mouth" compilation, and got "Shouting At The Ground" on the back of that. Loved the one on Mute - "Colluision" - and "Just An Illusion", but never got much further as I sort of headed down the power electronics alley more-so. I don't know, they seemed a little bit 'hippy-ish' by comparison?! Just an impression I had, probably ill-founded. Recently bought the "Gris" LP on VOD, and enjoyed that, but I'll hardly shell out for the complete set. Anyone have "Further Collusion"?
I do sort of regret not getting the "Popular Soviet Songs And Youth Music" special CD package when I saw it in the shops years ago, but at the time I suppose I was watching the pennies a bit!
Quote from: Strömkarlen on January 15, 2021, 12:53:49 PM
Long time no see... remember that interview well although I can't remember which issue it was. I should dig out the old zines and re-read it.
Howdy Jonas, long time for sure! Seven years on the dark continent severs ties, sadly.
I don't have my zine collection handy so can't help you locating that Zoviet France article. What I do remember is that two or three people told me that they got into ZF after reading it, which is the best testimonial one could get. Oh, and whatever became of your plans of collecting the best Soma material in a book?
Is Steve Cammack still hanging around here on the board, btw? I'm pretty sure Dieter Muh shared the bill with ZF at some point. Would be interesting to hear his stories!
Since you posted the photo from the first part, I'm guessing you know about this interview. For those who don't know. I still haven't listened to most of the 2nd part.
Robin Storey podcast interview. Not the most listener-friendly situation with them trying to be quiet and lots of background noise.
https://www.radiopanik.org/emissions/moacrealsloa/robin-storey-interview-part-1-of-2/
https://www.radiopanik.org/emissions/moacrealsloa/robin-storey-interview-part-2-2/
Quote from: Zeno Marx on January 15, 2021, 09:31:55 PM
Since you posted the photo from the first part, I'm guessing you know about this interview.
As a matter of fact, Zeno, that photo was taken by me, at the concert mentioned above. I uploaded it somewhere a long time ago, then it went viral and has since been appropriated all over the place. As in this instance, to adorn a Rapoon interview by someone who is probably not even aware of that Robin Storey is not in the picture. Nevertheless, I did not know about this interview, but shall listen to it with mild enthusiasm and a condescending frown.
Quote from: post-morten on January 15, 2021, 09:09:07 PM
Quote from: Strömkarlen on January 15, 2021, 12:53:49 PM
Long time no see... remember that interview well although I can't remember which issue it was. I should dig out the old zines and re-read it.
Howdy Jonas, long time for sure! Seven years on the dark continent severs ties, sadly.
I don't have my zine collection handy so can't help you locating that Zoviet France article. What I do remember is that two or three people told me that they got into ZF after reading it, which is the best testimonial one could get. Oh, and whatever became of your plans of collecting the best Soma material in a book?
Is Steve Cammack still hanging around here on the board, btw? I'm pretty sure Dieter Muh shared the bill with ZF at some point. Would be interesting to hear his stories!
Still in Africa?
The book needs to be done. When ever I find time... but the I'm returning to publishing so perhaps now is the time!
Quote from: Strömkarlen on January 16, 2021, 08:17:46 PM
Still in Africa?
Yes, so it is. Now based in Zambia, so no more "Champagne in Mozambique" (on-topic pun - title of first tape by ZF offshoot
Ingleton Falls).
Speaking of which, talking about any of the splinter groups would be fair game too in this thread. While I never really got into
Dead Voices On Air, I quite liked a couple of albums by Spybey's
Propeller project.
Horizon 222 were the two Andys' foray into the dancey end of the electronic/ambient spectrum. Not bad for what it is... I imagine it went down like a storm at early 90s raves. Mark Warren's
Penumbra project have a couple of respectable albums that oscillates from dark ambient to new age electronics and back, occasionally with hints of rhythms.
Reformed Faction (of Soviet France)... I got their first CD on Klanggalerie which I remember as quite good. They churned out a bunch of albums but I didn't follow that trajectory. Any opinion on them?
Zoviet France - 7.10.12 2012 - haven't lost a beat - great album.
Zoviet France - Shteirlel 2008 - gets unusually crunchy and crumbly - great.
Zoviet France - The Tables are Turning 2013 - this one reminds me a little of Digilogue, with krauty electronics and huge, organic swells.
Do they have a tried and true formula, or are they simply great at what they do? I don't play the recent albums as much as the old, but when I do, I find myself mesmerized and stop whatever I'm doing to just listen. And I think I'm going to play just one album. Three albums later, I'm proven pleasantly wrong.
I've been listening a lot to Soviet France over the last 2 weeks. The first 3 classic LP's (Garista, Mohnomishe, Eostre) certainly stood the test of time. Really great ambient industrial. Worth tracking down the VOD reissues of these which are really nicely done. Shouting At The Ground is another classic but in retrospect I do not really like it. Too much fading in/out and some of the loops annoy me. 2 other albums worth mentioning are Loh Land and Just An Illusion. More rhythmic with tribal influences. These were the first 2 I bought on cd from Staalplaat and back then they introduced me to a whole new side of industrial music.
I like listening to the early stuff when I'm writing.
Been out of town, so not at home next to shelves with records and for reason or another ZF came to my mind and online listening started. My collection consist mostly the very early LP's and handful of quite early CD's. This year I purchased large set of LP's from VOD, and just threw them all into my physical record store shelves thinking they must be some sort of tribal muzak and not the industrial stuff I am after.
At this point, I can't confirm to way or another, but when posting screen cap to Noise Now Playing with listening to early ZF and saying I have doubts if the new stuff is any good, and someone commented it just gets better. Mohnomische play right now, Gris I did listen couple days ago, Shouting at the ground and Russian Heterodoxical Songs yesterday... and everything been gold.
One thing is that when thinking you'll get by with 5 early releases, but then find out a lot of albums are better than stuff you casually listen to, and feel like you may need to get more.. expand horizon, so to say.. And soon there is website with 500 radio shows by ZF and it seems almost as if being too much of a task to start figure out what is the stuff to listen to or what to buy.
I guess next thing I get back to work, I'll snatch all the ZF vinyl from store shelves for myself and go through them...
Yes, an all time project for me. Still seeking a copy of Mohnomishe on CD if anyone can help.
Edit: acquired!
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 30, 2022, 04:58:48 PM
One thing is that when thinking you'll get by with 5 early releases, but then find out a lot of albums are better than stuff you casually listen to, and feel like you may need to get more.. expand horizon, so to say.. And soon there is website with 500 radio shows by ZF and it seems almost as if being too much of a task to start figure out what is the stuff to listen to or what to buy.
Just so there is no misunderstanding: the long-running ZF podcast, A Duck In the Tree (https://zovietfrance.podbean.com/), is not music by :zoviet*france: but rather music endorsed by the two members. Everything from field recordings and sound art to ambient and subtly beat-driven stuff. Once in a while they do include outtakes from ZF albums, concerts, or even previously unreleased snippets though.
Ah ok. I actually had not even heard it - which shows how easy it is to NOT come across something online when you see nobody talk about it...
I briefly checked the podcast site while trying to find good online source for full albums. Little info was displayed on that podcast platform.
So, currently when no access for the albums, Youtube it was. Cyclonic Sub Aliens most recent one. Liking all that I have heard. Probably in two weeks will have the LP's in hand.
To play along, I cued up The Third Collusion, Further Collusion, and a couple of the unreleased albums included in the Chasse box series. Ignore the dates. They never had a down period. Close your eyes and pick an album. And they always came full-force to their compilation contributions. Listening to the tracks on The Third Collusion that would have fit well on a Digilogue 2CD version, even when toying with styles not really my thing in just about any other situation, they mesmerize and close in the walls of their world around you. I find it difficult to casually listen to even their latter albums. So deep. So quickly. Forget multitasking.
I've been again listening to a lot of :ZF:. Funny enough, I've been listening from a different angle though. They've always been an effortless and intuitive listen, an instant and powerful attraction to their beauty and sublime. So I've been a passive listener, allowing it to hit me like it has always hit me. I consider them experimental. Ethno- x, y, and z. Organic. As I was listening to Shadow, Thief of the Sun 1991 (brilliant title), I was mesmerized by their, what seems to me, use of a clothes dryer. It's the central rhythm to the album. Simple, and it ended with that. Then, as I listened to the favorite Loh-Land, I wasn't taken in by the flute and organic textures per usual, but the urban and filthy industrialism hit me like a ton of bricks. I've listened to this album hundreds of times, and while their industrial elements are obvious, they do play in the background and aren't the centerpiece, at least for me. I'm certain others listen the opposite. Just another way this group is like no other. Ethno and worldly and organic and primordial and timeless, but also filthy grime and urban and modern decay. The decay is also obvious, particularly if you study their packaging and artwork (and the very name), but it's more subtle in the music itself. Subtle is sort of a lie too, because if you change the angle, it brains you.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on January 04, 2023, 10:43:35 PM
Third Collusion
This is the one, really great, "ignore the dates" indeed, while one might look askance at a compilation spanning '98 to '16 (?), during listening it's very hard to tell where we're at in time. "Third Collusion" in particular I have used to turn at least two people onto this fantastic and historically-crucial project.
Someone mentioned HNAS and Organum, this is a good comparison but I'm not sure why, maybe there is a conscious lineage from max ernst that ties it all together
They're playing in Malmö later this month. I know zero of the other bands on the festival. https://www.intonalfestival.com/
It's going to be a busy spring for ZF. Besides Malmö they're also playing Paris very soon, April 16, and then Birmingham (UK) on May 27.
https://mailchi.mp/c7f5814ef3b7/news-from-zovietfrance-february-2018-live-show-in-london-13736885
The expanded version of Gris breaks that rule of "don't mess with the original." Gris has never been one of my ZF favorites, but admittedly, some of that is because my copy was a wreck when I received it. The shingle was not kind to the vinyl. Damaged enough that every time I played it, I thought I might have to buy a new stylus. My problem, not ZF's (sort of). They expanded Gris to nearly sixty minutes on Chasse 1. I listened to it three times in a row this weekend. An entire afternoon of Gris. One of those rare instances that when recommending, I'd say go for this version, for it is truly improved and superior to the original. Now I need to listen to it in its original form. It's been a long while since I played the 10", but I'm so hyped on this material now, it has to hit me differently.
have they ever discussed their tribal/Native artwork aesthetic? I can't remember if it was brought up in the one podcast interview previously cited in this thread.
I don't know about that, but question itself is good. Already probably 15+ years ago I talked with noise guy who was asking why there is so much of "tribal music influence" in industrial. Probably meaning things such as percussion, even polyrhythmic percussion, perhaps chants, usage of tribal or "exotic" instruments, Didgeridoo, bone-flutes and so on. I recall Genesis P-Orridge talking about it in old interview. It seemed more like "just happened" -kind of thing. Odd records would circulate among people who would eventually be the experimental/industrial protagonists. People were given ritual instruments kind of curiosity / trophy and then used for music too.
When talking to mentioned guy, I said I personally do not associate all the percussion as "tribal". There is certainly the tribal element in many artists, but fine line where thing such as metal percussion is not the "african rhythm", but emulation of factory machines, iron heel marching sound etc...
In case of ZF, of course, tribal influence is absolutely obvious, with others, we may have situation where tribal is no longer there - unless, the new industrial tribe is what is aimed to, with very little of any actual elements of original tribal stuff?
From early on, with COUM Transmissions, Throbbing Gristle, Genesis P-Orridge, and so on, they were exploring primitive and altered states. Shooting from the hip, I would think that lends to the perspective and approach of resourcefulness, but with different tools. Thinking of the great issue of RE/search, Modern Primitives. Playing with bones, early and primitive instruments, and homemade variations of instruments, and then using technological tools of the day, to aid in those primitive and altered states. Percussion, tribalism, primal headspace, and the technological burden arriving at such a conclusion. Clumsy wording, but that's seems to be a fair assumption of where they started and what they'd create with that mindset.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on October 17, 2023, 09:37:34 PMhave they ever discussed their tribal/Native artwork aesthetic? I can't remember if it was brought up in the one podcast interview previously cited in this thread.
I always assumed the artwork's tribal influences came with Robin Storey and his art school background. Many of the early record covers were made at the Charlotte Press cooperative where Storey worked and taught. After he departed ZF in 1992 the graphic design became more generic, while Rapoon carried on in a similar style.
But then again, from the ND interview in 1991 around the time for the ZF tour of the US of A:
ND -
Who does the artwork for the covers?Ben Ponton - We pool ideas as we do with music. Whatever comes out can be the work of one, two, or three people, not everybody has to be involved in everything all the time. We don't worry so much about whose stuff it is at the end of the day.
Judging by this reply the early artworks seem to have been more of a collaborative effort.
Thanks! I completely forgot about that ND issue, and I own it. Not a very satisfying answer, is it? That's how I felt as I was listening to that long, 2-part interview. They aren't the most verbally enticing group of folk. The type of people you'd have to know to know. I think I can relate, but I remain wanting.
Can't imagine how many albums could come out of all those archived recordings. They drop a couple unreleased "albums" in those Chasse box sets, and we ZF fans are frothing at the mouth. They could be endless. I hope someone involved is transferring the archives before they're lost...assuming they haven't already been tossed.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on October 30, 2023, 08:24:36 PMCan't imagine how many albums could come out of all those archived recordings. They drop a couple unreleased "albums" in those Chasse box sets, and we ZF fans are frothing at the mouth. They could be endless. I hope someone involved is transferring the archives before they're lost...assuming they haven't already been tossed.
ZF have mentioned in interviews, and also in my own conversations with them, that they have a habit of recording everything, whether it is private sessions or live public performances. Something like 5% of their archives have been released. Then it follows that, potentially, they could open the floodgates for a deluge of releases and compete with the likes of Merzbow or Muslimgauze. Now I doubt this will ever happen. They have enough integrity for wanting to dilute the ZF brand. Also I believe such a move would involve sorting out rights with past members, some of whom are barely on speaking terms. I know this issue was a bit of a showstopper before the Chasse sets came to fruition. I'm certain we can look forward to more albums at a slow but steady pace, as up until now.