Maybe some people are aware, some not, but starting from 1st of July, activates new EU laws for importing.
New rules are that there is no free packages. No matter how small, all orders are paid VAT for both shipping and value of the items.
Small "Gifts" are still somewhat excluded, but one still needs to prove that this is gift, not purchase.
This may change a bit the whole structure of how underground operates. Even sending out gift, or trade, receiver may have to log into customs system, provide documents to prove its gift. At least in Finland, handling fee is applied, regardless if they decide that material would be tax free.
Often I have received notifications of arriving parcel, where sender is indicated only as "USA". No idea who sent it and what it contains. Bunch of emails, comparing tracking codes and such things finally may reveal who send and what. This means that things would hopefully be more organized in future. Knowing when stuff is being sent, tracking codes, what value is mentioned in custom papers and so on.
all in all, process doesn't require THAT much time. It is purely related to how much mail you are doing in general. Now that new international postal system requires people to fill CN22 codes online, with full address & content information, it is fairly annoying. I would not be surprised if outrageous postal prices combined with always more complex and expensive customs regulations will have severe impact on "international scene"?
Is there a preferred value to assign trade items or gifts that keeps VAT the lowest for receivers? And if proof of gift is needed is it best to send the receiver a standalone email saying: "I'm sending you a gift package which includes..." ? 90% of what I send to the EU are gifts or trades so I don't want to fuck my friends each time I send a cassette.
The EU is certainly making it harder and harder to deal with non-EU countries. France, for example demands online forms to be filled out, if you want to send to non-EU countries, whereas it used to be just a normal post office type deal back in the day. Funnily, all of this has been happening since the UK left...
The price and hassle of procedure will certainly be an aspect, but I guess the fact that parcels will be checked more intensely will also turn people off. After all, Post-Industrial content may certainly provoke more than just a bit of headshaking with some customs agents.
Quote from: ConcreteMascara on May 24, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
Is there a preferred value to assign trade items or gifts that keeps VAT the lowest for receivers? And if proof of gift is needed is it best to send the receiver a standalone email saying: "I'm sending you a gift package which includes..." ? 90% of what I send to the EU are gifts or trades so I don't want to fuck my friends each time I send a cassette.
In theory, if you got CN22 sticker stating gift, and its not big box, it could slip through customs for free. But even now, when old more relaxed law is applied, I got even promos or gifts that I need to fill forms online to either prove its gift or just suck it up and pay import taxes - which may be faster and easier after all. Amusing thing is that in Finland, when you pay for "handling fee" of package, you must do it with card. Not possible to use banktransfer or such. One needs to have card and use it online to pay the fee. Otherwise you won't get the letter, even if you paid taxes. They'll also ask there if you are paying this behalf of someone. So, besides EU making it more difficult, it appears quite dystopian surveillance system of even all private mail...
The same people in Brussels i bet they were accusing US ex-president for 'protectionism' and 'isolation' . So, what happened to the globalization project ? -Pretty much- Free trade they were promising to advocate it. - Bureaucracy ? Commies of the past would be jealous. Not even in their most wild dreams they believed they could make people to fill papers for a walk. Or to report their medical condition every other day. Now, even fill papers to recieve a fucking tape ? - If you murder someone, it's justice's / authorities' job to proove you are guilty, not yours to proove your innocence. To recieve a gift, should be their job to proove it's not a gift. You, How the fuck to proove it's a gift ? Having the sender to say 'I send you a gift' ? That's already stated on declaration.
VAT, lets say i am OK to pay it. But handling fee here, now, is 15EUR !
The USPS hasn't updated the International Mail Manual yet but I'd imagine they will once it's closer to July. People shipping from the U.S. should keep an eye on this, under the individual country listings they normally keep the VAT threshold updated.
https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/welcome.htm (https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/welcome.htm)
Well, I guess it was just a matter of time before this happened. I quote avalara.com as to why the EU €22 VAT exemption valid until end of June is being removed.
"The exemption has also encouraged large-scale fraud by sellers deliberately under declaring the values of goods to escape the import VAT bill." Ha! On the other hand, maybe the packages will be delivered faster? "This will create a more efficient 'Green Channel', with quick and easy customs clearance. "
Perhaps, probably not though, it will be easier to circumvent the rules (somewhat) if the package is sent via a private courier company instead of a national postal service? Also, perhaps it may be worth adding a short letter/note indicating it's a gift when it comes to sending a single CD/tape/etc? Unreasonably time consuming if you're mailing a lot of things, however.
Long-term, considering all of these surprisingly protectionist measures around the world the last couple of years, for labels it may be worth looking into more cross-regional/continental collaborations regarding bigger releases (LPs, CDs) as it generally seems to become increasingly difficult just ordering/trading from outside your region. So, more co-releases could be a solution.
Just include a fake Happy Birthday card or some other seasonal greeting with your small orders to pass them off as "gifts".
Quote from: theotherjohn on May 25, 2021, 12:56:52 AM
Just include a fake Happy Birthday card or some other seasonal greeting with your small orders to pass them off as "gifts".
A couple of old heads told me to do this in their first bit of advice about sending royalty copies outside the country.
That is quite old school, that has barely relevance at least over here. In Finland, none of the packages go actually to hands of the customs. They are in shelves of airport post office warehouse, waiting for clearance. It is all automatic, so you will get notification that someone send you something. You'll need to fill the forms online. If you wish to get box for free, it requires actual person to take a look at your case. He won't have the box at hand, and won't be checking any greeting cards. Just the paperwork or information you give online. If he decides to inquire more proof, more screenshots of what kind of gift, of what value, you'd need to submit that. If he decides its ok, and lets stuff go free, you need to pay handling fee. If he feels there is some sort of fraud going on, not sure how proceedings will go on from there.
Myself, as I operate official company, VAT is no problem at all. Its just part of normal proceedings. Easiest is to pay the tax and just get the boxes. I am more annoyed about amount of time that goes into paperwork and useless documentation, especially if it means even simple promo CDR would be something you are figuring out whats this package, who sent it, should I pay handling fee for something I didn't even request in first place... hah
There is IOSS-system, that bigger webstores are or will be using. It means that international webstore bills you the VAT, and pays behalf of customer to the EU. This means customers themselves don't have to do the paperwork and handle the taxes. It is of course in favor of big companies or some platforms. All sorts of multinational corporations will have the resources to get things work.
Smaller companies (like myself) do not have that, but at least the paper work, contracts with post system, taxes and all such things are basic everyday routine. My concern is not really personal. It is mostly how this kind of changes change the underground in absolute grass-root level. When it is too difficult, expensive and complex to do send out self-financed tape... Or making self released vinyl would be out of question. Or seemingly unavoidable division of different continents.
I don't know how it will affect me. I don't send a lot to USA etc anymore and don't order much from outside of Europe anymore, used to do it more often about 10 years ago, since low shipping cost and interesting $-€ rate made price very reasonable. Only once in a while I'd have customs pick out a package. Never fun, regularly with a price that's reasonable, sometimes outrageous (once with a package from NZ, about 15 tapes, 2 patches and a t-shirt I had to pay over €100).
It always was the case that if you had to pay for small packages you'd pay more in customs fees than in actual import fees.
Filling out CN22 forms is no big deal, but about half a year ago, a second form was added, for customs. With 99% the same information. Annoying because of how stupid it is, but manageable. What makes it even more stupid is that when you give your package to the postal lady she has to type all info on your package into a computersystem (as far as I can see with the facemask she's rather good looking, so everything has its good side, haha). Apparently in the future you can do that online.
Now they've announced this new regulation this topic is about: they reason that if you order from a non-registered company your product will be cheaper, but then you'll still have to pay the VAT. Of course, that doesn't work for small labels, bands and with trades. But not only that, you'll end up having to pay a lot more when ordering from these kind of companies. Because not only do you have to pay import fee, the VAT will be calculated on the total: productprice + import fee.
The example they give:
- order a product worth €10 from a registered webshop, pay 21% VAT, total €12,10
- order a product worth €10 from an unregistered webshop, import fee of €15, pay 21% VAT on €25 (€5,25), total €30,25
Either a registered webshop doesn't have to pay import fees at all (so the import fee for non-registered is just a punishment for not being registered) or it will be calculated in their price, so the "you don't have to pay the import fee" is a lie.
Calculating VAT on product cost + import fee is total bullshit.
So, yeah, I don't know what's gonna happen in my case with trades outside of EU etc, but I'm feeling less and less inclined to keep doing this, not only because of this, but also because of ever rising shipping costs, the insane amount of stuff that constantly gets released, people not being able to order anymore via e-mail... Then again, I don't want to let the bastards grind me down, hah. We'll see.
Huge bummer for me since I love crunchy texas / midwestern americanoise the best. Hope there would small EU editions of new tapes in the future, but maybe it's not feasible.
My international postage rates have already increased by roughly 150% in a year so this is fantastic news....
Overseas shipping rates are brutal. Just spend 150 euros to send 38 records to Japan.
I've been filling up everything "outside-Europe" online since January, but until now it was basically the same old thing. I was already expecting more trouble clearing packages that come from non-European countries. It was just a matter of time. Here in Portugal it has been a fucking nightmare dealing with customs for a few years already, but with these new rules... I guess the very little trading I do once in a while will stop completely. And this will affect sales too I'm sure.
I think this will have an impact in the scene in a couple of years.
Quote from: Urban Noise on May 27, 2021, 06:25:19 PM
I've been filling up everything "outside-Europe" online since January, but until now it was basically the same old thing. I was already expecting more trouble clearing packages that come from non-European countries. It was just a matter of time. Here in Portugal it has been a fucking nightmare dealing with customs for a few years already, but with these new rules... I guess the very little trading I do once in a while will stop completely. And this will affect sales too I'm sure.
I think this will have an impact in the scene in a couple of years.
Seems like the only was would be more distros within the EU which buy larger parcels from non-EU labels and would become something like the go-to point for Europeans. Of course, prices would be higher due to the fees they would be paying and from what I have heard, the whole "buying items for distro" concept is far from booming...
As I was reading this thread, I was wondering how business is going to have to change in the underground. Some thought digital was going to kill it, but I feel it is going to be shipping and the red tape. I don't suspect editions are going to be larger in number, giving labels and traders more time to wait and make larger trades to make it all more worthwhile, so maybe hold boxes are going to come back into play? I watch a punk label that updates its website nearly every day. Very small quantities of everything. Most of the stock sells out within minutes. From what I can tell, each day is considered new. No hold piles. The likeliness of the same small group of customers making orders several days a week, thus paying shipping several days a week. I can't imagine that model is sustainable for buyers, so the sellers are going to have to accommodate in some fashion. Hold boxes that get cleaned out weekly or monthly? Of course, this doesn't address the red tape and taxes, but what are labels willing to do to better their situation with buyers and traders? Or is this all better allowed to become more and more isolationist and unfriendly at the whim of postal services? I don't have any answers, just questions.
I certainly endorse hold boxes and do offer the option at checkout via my web shop. US distros/labels should especially consider this, given how impossible their international rates are.
If shipping via private companies can help avoid the impending hassle and fees mentioned throughout this thread then I would suggest those who use PayPal to look into netParcel shipping. It can be accessed via paypal.com/shiplabel/create, or from the "ship" portion of a transaction. This allows shipments to be sent via UPS or DHL at corporate discount rates. Just be mindful that UPS seems to charge customs fees within certain European countries (Germany, for example), even if the order value is marked low (our UPS rep at work even advised us not to use them for European orders...) and there always seems to be a hidden fee for the receiver with DHL regardless of order value or originating/destination country. But maybe those fees will still be less than what's about to start happening with national postal services.
when shipping is higher than what ordered there a fucking problem that should not be that way against the modern world ?
Quote from: Bleak Existence on May 28, 2021, 03:18:35 PM
when shipping is higher than what ordered there a fucking problem that should not be that way against the modern world ?
Its almost like people are so used to everything being easy they forget what it used to be like before international law and free trade. Also that its very easy to undo what took decades to achieve (looking at you, brexit)
Quote from: absurdexposition on May 28, 2021, 03:02:14 AM
If shipping via private companies can help avoid the impending hassle and fees mentioned throughout this thread then I would suggest those who use PayPal to look into netParcel shipping. It can be accessed via paypal.com/shiplabel/create, or from the "ship" portion of a transaction. This allows shipments to be sent via UPS or DHL at corporate discount rates. Just be mindful that UPS seems to charge customs fees within certain European countries (Germany, for example), even if the order value is marked low (our UPS rep at work even advised us not to use them for European orders...) and there always seems to be a hidden fee for the receiver with DHL regardless of order value or originating/destination country. But maybe those fees will still be less than what's about to start happening with national postal services.
Never looked into this but sounds useful. When I click this link I get redirected to 'packlink'. Can I use this if I do not have a company?
Quote from: impulse manslaughter on May 28, 2021, 09:00:28 PM
Quote from: absurdexposition on May 28, 2021, 03:02:14 AM
If shipping via private companies can help avoid the impending hassle and fees mentioned throughout this thread then I would suggest those who use PayPal to look into netParcel shipping. It can be accessed via paypal.com/shiplabel/create, or from the "ship" portion of a transaction. This allows shipments to be sent via UPS or DHL at corporate discount rates. Just be mindful that UPS seems to charge customs fees within certain European countries (Germany, for example), even if the order value is marked low (our UPS rep at work even advised us not to use them for European orders...) and there always seems to be a hidden fee for the receiver with DHL regardless of order value or originating/destination country. But maybe those fees will still be less than what's about to start happening with national postal services.
Never looked into this but sounds useful. When I click this link I get redirected to 'packlink'. Can I use this if I do not have a company?
Ah, it could be region specific. Perhaps netParcel is only for for Canada. Packlink seems to be UK-based, hopefully the services are equivalent.
I just looked into some of the prices. Seems to be a bit cheaper than the postal system. Might try this on the next shipments. Thanks!
Quote from: vomitgore on May 27, 2021, 08:07:39 PM
Quote from: Urban Noise on May 27, 2021, 06:25:19 PM
I've been filling up everything "outside-Europe" online since January, but until now it was basically the same old thing. I was already expecting more trouble clearing packages that come from non-European countries. It was just a matter of time. Here in Portugal it has been a fucking nightmare dealing with customs for a few years already, but with these new rules... I guess the very little trading I do once in a while will stop completely. And this will affect sales too I'm sure.
I think this will have an impact in the scene in a couple of years.
Seems like the only was would be more distros within the EU which buy larger parcels from non-EU labels and would become something like the go-to point for Europeans. Of course, prices would be higher due to the fees they would be paying and from what I have heard, the whole "buying items for distro" concept is far from booming...
Besides the bigger distros that already do that, I don't see that happening for smaller operations. And will bigger distros care enough for small labels releases to actually buy them and sell them in their region? All I see happening is people focusing more on their regional (Europe/US/Asia) scenes.
But yes, exclusive distro deals or even co-releases like TordonLjud said will be a cool option to look at.
Using private transport companies will not change anything, parcels will always go throught customs. Using other companies will only add "storage fees" and other fees on top of postage costs and import taxes.
Quote from: Urban Noise on May 29, 2021, 02:02:59 PM
Using private transport companies will not change anything, parcels will always go throught customs. Using other companies will only add "storage fees" and other fees on top of postage costs and import taxes.
This. Ss much as people like to hate on national postal services, they are very often if not always cheaper for the consumer than private shipping companies.
Quote from: vomitgore on May 24, 2021, 04:29:18 PM
The EU is certainly making it harder and harder to deal with non-EU countries. France, for example demands online forms to be filled out, if you want to send to non-EU countries, whereas it used to be just a normal post office type deal back in the day. Funnily, all of this has been happening since the UK left...
The price and hassle of procedure will certainly be an aspect, but I guess the fact that parcels will be checked more intensely will also turn people off. After all, Post-Industrial content may certainly provoke more than just a bit of headshaking with some customs agents.
I've sent 30ish tapes and some lps to Tordon Ljud in the UK recently and a bunch of tapes to Canada as well after the Brexit, and I didn't have to fill out anything online. CN22 for Canada, other custom forms for the UK as the package was bigger, that's all.
Also, if you're in France, you can still use an LP mailer and put 6 to 7 tapes in there laying flat and send the package as a letter as long as it's not more than 3cm thick. Been doing that for years, never had an issue.
There was also this special fare for books and paper only that one could (probably still can) use to send packages abroad for a super cheap price. It took a while but I sent many packages to the other sides of the world with dozens of LPs in there without issues either.
Also, I'm curious to see whether people will start putting notes in their packages again (I'm not dreaming about getting letters through the mail anymore) if it can help for packages to be considered as gifts if they're inspected. Notes and letters in packages have disappeared as quickly as dual tape decks in the underground scenes, and that says a lot to me about what they've all become.
Bought a €50 singel on Discogs from a Japanese seller yesterday. Was shipped through DHL today who just send me a €48 bill for import taxes. If this is the future i won't be ordering a lot of overseas records. Goddamned!
DHL is the worst of them all for sending bills after the fact.
I just checked a site that calculates import taxes and it says it's 24 euros for what I ordered. Then I saw the site mentioned; "DHL income tax rates are unknown." So yeah, it seems they have there own rates which in my case is 2 times the normal rate.
Quote from: impulse manslaughter on June 01, 2021, 07:20:53 PM
I just checked a site that calculates import taxes and it says it's 24 euros for what I ordered. Then I saw the site mentioned; "DHL income tax rates are unknown." So yeah, it seems they have there own rates which in my case is 2 times the normal rate.
how can a private company have their own tax rates?
Quote from: host body on June 01, 2021, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: impulse manslaughter on June 01, 2021, 07:20:53 PM
I just checked a site that calculates import taxes and it says it's 24 euros for what I ordered. Then I saw the site mentioned; "DHL income tax rates are unknown." So yeah, it seems they have there own rates which in my case is 2 times the normal rate.
how can a private company have their own tax rates?
They don't, they just charge administrative fees for paying the taxes on your behalf. The terminology varies but they generally cost 15-30eu depending on carrier. I frequently get bills for 30eu for import fees where the tax is around 10, and the fees are 20.
Is this the same for all parcel companies or only DHL? Cause that's the only one mentioned on the Dutch calculation site I checked..
Quote from: accidental on May 25, 2021, 09:55:11 AM
I don't believe this law in particular will have that much impact. Things has already been heading in this direction for years, this is just an extra push. Paperwork will be a hassle for the small business. Shipping costs more of an issue for the consumer than these laws.
It is true that shipping cost is probably the bigger problem for small business, as said in original posting:
QuoteI would not be surprised if outrageous postal prices combined with always more complex and expensive customs regulations will have severe impact on "international scene"?
One can already see it, that many discogs sellers are restricting where they sell. For example, USA only. Or not shipping outside Europe. If it would be merely issue of postage - I don't see it really matter since customer pays you the postage. Flat out refusing to send overseas, has to have some other things. I think there are now some US noise dealers, where their webstore doesn't allow european orders. At least been told. I fully understand that, and that labels would rather sell to distributor.
What original posting meant, "trade" was not meaning really the commercial trade understood as "the action of buying and selling goods", but the trade as artist or micro label spreading their stuff. For example, I do business or trades with many industrial labels who operate as company. Legit record labels. Yet also I do trades with basically anyone who has good noise tape done. I would prefer to get 5 copies of harsh noise tapes from new starting band, as opposed to PTV reissue cd. I have gut feeling that complexity of shipping may make that part of culture shrink significantly. For sure, the companies can operate, but the private persons, is different thing.
I got already few friends who used to put out stuff and they just conclude that its not worth it. Not only expensive, but also difficult. Even simply sending out package and if you don't have computer with printer and over here you are almost unable to send package. Live a bit away from central, and you got to go through major efforts to even send or pick up something. So yeah, if this is work, or obsession, of course one goes on. A lot of good artists and those starting out, would be probably turned off by complexity of paper work and such. At least I would be, hah.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 05, 2021, 09:19:37 AM
What original posting meant, "trade" was not meaning really the commercial trade understood as "the action of buying and selling goods", but the trade as artist or micro label spreading their stuff. For example, I do business or trades with many industrial labels who operate as company. Legit record labels. Yet also I do trades with basically anyone who has good noise tape done. I would prefer to get 5 copies of harsh noise tapes from new starting band, as opposed to PTV reissue cd. I have gut feeling that complexity of shipping may make that part of culture shrink significantly. For sure, the companies can operate, but the private persons, is different thing.
It will affect big time on the smaller operations.
Yesterday I've received an e-mail from the Portuguese Postal Service informing about this subject and basically what they said was every package will pay VAT and Customs fees. Period. Everything will pay. Until now, if you're lucky it would pass without fees, now, everything will pay.
So, yeah, trading a couple of tapes with non-european labels/artists is expensive enough, adding on top of that VAT and the Fees, will make it impossible. Not to mention we'll need to provide invoices when in must cases doesn't exist, making it very difficult to clear anything from Customs.
Not a bright future on trading overseas.
I can understand the problems with import and export of existing material of physical media. That this is what some want rather than a digital equivalent which could be downloaded avoiding physical limitations on imports & exports. Shipping and tax. An alternative might be for future 'physical releases' to be made using similar methods to the likes of Amazon*, where physical hard copies of books are printed locally on demand. By that I mean distributors in various countries could produce locally cassette / CD and packaging from digital downloads. These if limited releases were required could be authenticated by the original owner. (for small runs this could be an email exchange**). Older material is by now as well as being material in its own right, has become 'collectors items', their originality and scarcity being part of the value, as such obviously they would still need physical transfer and resultant taxes, but as 'collectors items' this would be part of their 'value'.
But if in future shipping and duties make small physical runs that could be distrusted internationally no longer viable, this might be an alternative?
Just a thought.
* I think in the past major labels manufactured releases in more than one country for distribution, notably in the USA different releases to the UK / Europe.
**Or the originator could personally sign inserts and limited edition numbering and send these by letter post to distributors...
The first time I ran into this was with the Su19b demo. They weren't the first, but they were my first. They sent a master cassette and ten J-cards. I dubbed and sold. They then re-supplied J-cards as they sold out. With digital means now available, if physical copies are in demand, the artist, or label, could send the sound files and images to regional distributors and let them create the physical artifacts. DIYness was always about being smart with resources and using the available tools in crude manner.
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I doubt this is the 'solution' . Most [?] labels nowdays dont even dub their copies themselves. Guys who run distributions usually also have their own labels. I bet they prefer to use their time and resources for their productions, if they are to dub something.
What i think is distro / friends / partners collaborations may help. Someone in US gathers stuff from several labels there and sends a large package to distro in EU. At least this way multiple fees would be avoided. - But really this new policy is the last nail on the coffin for personal purchases from outside EU, for me. And i guess for most of us too ...
Distros which are registered as legal companies arent affected, are they ? Dont know. But they pay the VAT back and their income taxes when the imported product is sold. So rules are probably different.
I did some reading and IF things are exactly like described [and if i understood correctly] , then this change in rules might not be bad ! - Now, everything is subject to VAT. BUT if the VAT is paid during the check-out at the web-shop [ie: Discogs] then there isnt any additional fee for handling [15EUR] . And this is valid up to 150EUR value. - If VAT isnt pre-paid then you have to pay VAT+15EUR to Hellenic Post, unless the value is under 22EUR -then you pay only VAT- . - I didnt bother to read what couriers' policy is.
I ll go to post office to ask them, and probably i ll try an order through Discogs -it applies VAT at check-out- to see.
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If the VAT is prepaid up front along with the order (from Discogs, example), then we don't have to worry about marking low values on packages anymore, yeah?
Yes, because one thing needs to match the other. If someone is paying the VAT upfront, on discogs or on any other registered store, there is no need to pay VAT again on reception, it is already paid for the real value of the order.
Only for "not registered" or personal sales, the low value marking still works, besides that, not anymore.
Quote from: absurdexposition on July 20, 2021, 12:29:18 AM
If the VAT is prepaid up front along with the order (from Discogs, example), then we don't have to worry about marking low values on packages anymore, yeah?
True. Actualy, i think seller will have to include that print / receipt that shows VAT is prepaid, value, everything. Or buyer will have to email it to customs. Has no meaning to hide true value anymore, you cant, you dont want to -if you have paid VAT- . Even for 2-3 tapes, i think it's better to pay the VAT in advance, than risk to be stopped and checked, then you are in danger to pay VAT+Fee ! - Now, this way, most packages will pass rapidly with the prepaid VAT form, so with less load, every other package will be checked more carefully, i guess. - For orders above 150EUR, may worth to not prepay and marking it lower. Dont know. - All these, in theory ... with a lot of IFs ! We ll see ...
PS: VAT is applied on shipping cost too.
I am still waiting for discogs to come up with the IOSS number as I have a few records waiting to ship to Finland. Buyer is happy to wait for a while to see what happens....
I am just about to post a record to Netherlands that the buyer and I decided to take off Discogs, we settled privately via email and I am sending as a gift. Therefore, Discogs and the Dutch government are losing out.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on June 10, 2021, 07:05:32 PM
The first time I ran into this was with the Su19b demo. They weren't the first, but they were my first. They sent a master cassette and ten J-cards. I dubbed and sold. They then re-supplied J-cards as they sold out. With digital means now available, if physical copies are in demand, the artist, or label, could send the sound files and images to regional distributors and let them create the physical artifacts. DIYness was always about being smart with resources and using the available tools in crude manner.
Hah funny, i had the same deal with Su19b for their demo doing my old distro. There were actually even more labels/bands doing this, sending me a bunch of covers and inlays and i dubbed them myself.
So far I've continued to mark international shipments as gifts with low value, and no one has complained or had a problem.
A question which arose since those new EU custom tax laws started is royality copies for artists within the EU
releasing on non-EU labels. What are your experiences if you are residing in the EU and release overseas ?
Are there ways to avoid taxation of free artist copies ?
I think at least in Belgium that is impossible. Everything coming from outside of EU goes through customs. The administration fee is already 15 EUR so even something with a value of $1 including shipping would cost me more than 15 EUR to receive. That actually happened with a free CDR some friendly soul sent me from the US. I ended up paying 22e to receive it (had no idea what was in the package but I wanted to find out).
Quote from: Azoikum on February 19, 2022, 12:06:04 AM
A question which arose since those new EU custom tax laws started is royality copies for artists within the EU
releasing on non-EU labels. What are your experiences if you are residing in the EU and release overseas ?
Are there ways to avoid taxation of free artist copies ?
Quote from: moozz on February 19, 2022, 08:36:46 AM
I think at least in Belgium that is impossible. Everything coming from outside of EU goes through customs. The administration fee is already 15 EUR so even something with a value of $1 including shipping would cost me more than 15 EUR to receive. That actually happened with a free CDR some friendly soul sent me from the US. I ended up paying 22e to receive it (had no idea what was in the package but I wanted to find out).
Quote from: Azoikum on February 19, 2022, 12:06:04 AM
A question which arose since those new EU custom tax laws started is royality copies for artists within the EU
releasing on non-EU labels. What are your experiences if you are residing in the EU and release overseas ?
Are there ways to avoid taxation of free artist copies ?
Same thing happened to me with the Portuguese Customs... You pay for everything!
But worse, it's a total kafkian nightmare. And the whole service is to be done online through an interface full of "bugs" and there is NO direct contact with the Customs. Everything is done through the postal services, which act as a middleman who's regular answer is "we don't know".
The lastest one: got a notification for a package with no description of the sender and no indication of the content. I hadn't made any purchase outside the EU during the whole year, so it was most likely an offer. It took almost one month of daily complaints, ominous phonecalls and insults to get the goddamn package out of there. And the worst of all, they knew the content, its value and the sender, so... why ask?!? It's been crazy here.
I've heard of people getting their packages destroyed, packages with warped records caused by weeks of sun exposure, packages returned to sender because you cannot pay an ATM reference for 0€ tax (!!! this happened with my boss), etc...
I basically stopped doing trades with people from outside the EU.
Quote from: Soloman Tump on July 20, 2021, 04:19:18 PM
I am still waiting for discogs to come up with the IOSS number as I have a few records waiting to ship to Finland. Buyer is happy to wait for a while to see what happens....
I am just about to post a record to Netherlands that the buyer and I decided to take off Discogs, we settled privately via email and I am sending as a gift. Therefore, Discogs and the Dutch government are losing out.
For IOSS number I found that by clicking the PRINT button on order page and it's on a list of other numbers on top right of page.
It didn't change much for me, as I always ended uppaying taxes on packages from U.S.A.
It hasn't happened yet with anything from UK or elsewhere but I guess it will.
As you can imagine Italian customs = a total mess