https://noisenotmusic.com/2021/11/22/mix-anti-power-electronics/
laughing my ass off
It's funny, like every project working/supporting israeli scum nowadays... maybe they could fit perfectly in the category of anti-power electronics
QuoteFor this reason, I've avoided the genre almost entirely for quite a long time. But it turns out that was a grave mistake...
No, it was the right thing for you to do, you should go back to avoiding it.
QuoteThis selection of tracks, many of them from this year, is full of reclamations, profanations, decontextualizations, and condemnations of all kinds.
Standard issue PE, in other words. Minus the "reclamations" part, though - I never understood this "reclaiming" thing, because it's bullshit. You can't "reclaim" what was never yours.
Quote"U Aint from the Hood"
Neither is the great majority of the world's population.
This is the same thing as RABM, and just as stupid.
Back in the the, I think the ratio of good and crap, was in favor of good. You can almost blindly buy power electronics release 1980-2000, and trust it will be pretty good. Then 2000-2010, lots of good, but increasing amount of garbage. 2010-2020... hmmm... You have really good stuff coming, but need to be extra careful.
You can most likely expect, that regardless what content, what themes etc, you'll be hearing lame line-in home recordings, stupid imagination free electro-gadget sounds, flat silly digidistortion, dull shouting. Of course certain amount of great stuff emerges year after year, but while in history of music, generally new guys somehow pushed thing forward. Sound got harder. Sound got more intense. Sound progressed. Cumulation of knowledge and knowhow. And so on and on. And most of all, it was young folks, who stepped in and showed new level.
I think this element has shifted. Intellectually lazy perspective of "old guys not getting the young" is barely interesting, when it seems the surroundings and possibilities are far more dominating factors.
I think this was something talked about in recent White Centipede Noise prodcast. Capers talking how we have had enough of "c-20's" and now would be time for real albums. And was it the Heat Signature guys not being overly enthusiastic about the "bandcamp scene". And Phage kind of the same conclusions.
If you'd really aim for album, that someone will listen to, more than once. That it will be talked about, and being inspired of, even paid for. It may need, perfecting your craft for long time. That you even believe in it enough to invest X amount of energy and X amount of years, plus most often very limited resources. There is absolutely clear, strongly reeking spirit of disbelief towards own creations in a lot of material. And why there would not be? If one sees that certain kind of material emerges, when you push button of 25 euro korg and and feel that anyone, including you could do it, it'll be like equivalent of tiktok video. You got the tools, you want to belong, you want to do the same as the rest, but don't have idea or time or vision. Throw little more crap to internet and its enough for "creativity".
Like stuff in link above, example of anti-power electronics par excellence!
Some projects could probably craft their approach to be a bit more. It doesn't require much, theoretically. The realization what it could be, is meaningless if one doesn't make it happen.
open society foundations
"Fuck Whitehouse"? Talk about completely missing the point.
Here we go again....
Quote from: tiny_tove on November 24, 2021, 12:08:42 AM
https://noisenotmusic.com/2021/11/22/mix-anti-power-electronics/
All this talk about the genre, yet not a single mention of whether or not it sounds good.
For some reason, the link for me isn't working all that well, so I've only listened to some of it. While it's not completely awful, I would say that I have complete disdain for the motivations behind it and, as such, really couldn't be arsed persevering for longer. I'm not familiar with many of the projects listed, so I don't especially feel like I'm missing much. Anyway, FreakAnimalFinland's post did deal with the sounds, as opposed to the concept.
I think this type of stuff is not about whether it is good or not. Motivations are different.
Slogan in the end about "keep on screaming" is what I object to. I think when "PE" became synonym with "screaming over noise", it became instantly less interesting, although on surface that may seem as if that's what it always was.
What is being said about me or ZSS, is truthful enough one could expect from bozos, so I do not object to that ;)
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 27, 2021, 01:52:04 PM
I think this type of stuff is not about whether it is good or not. Motivations are different.
Definitely agreed. I was just poking fun at the notion that someone who reviews audio would talk about everything
but the audio. The post and playlist are purely reactionary to something that the reviewer doesn't even seem to understand, so it's not interesting. It's only there to get asspats and clicks.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 27, 2021, 01:52:04 PM
I think when "PE" became synonym with "screaming over noise", it became instantly less interesting, although on surface that may seem as if that's what it always was.
If ever the internet gifted us with anything, it is the wonder of lovingly boxing everything that is into perfectly digestible chunks.
I do recall a time when pe included the names Merzbow, Borbetomagus and TNB (and Organum), as a subset of industrial. Not sure that that would still hold. (Though it does for me!) But why wouldn't Pornoise, Snuff Jazz and Salute be seen/heard to occupy the same territory? Not very far removed, amiright?
The question, really, is who boxed pe into this particular corner? Was it the practitioners or what? (Rhetorical, no need to answer.)
I love you guys but sometimes you are barking up the wrong tree.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 27, 2021, 01:52:04 PM
I think when "PE" became synonym with "screaming over noise", it became instantly less interesting, although on surface that may seem as if that's what it always was.
Yeah yeah yeah PE is this for 20 years already it's a bit late to complain about this now...
Quote
What is being said about me or ZSS, is truthful enough one could expect from bozos, so I do not object to that ;)
Exactly, be proud of what you are standing for!
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 24, 2021, 10:43:45 AM
I think this was something talked about in recent White Centipede Noise prodcast. Capers talking how we have had enough of "c-20's" and now would be time for real albums. And was it the Heat Signature guys not being overly enthusiastic about the "bandcamp scene". And Phage kind of the same conclusions.
Of course Phage released the artist featured on the anti-power electronics page CBN... on Bandcamp no less.... https://phagetapes.bandcamp.com/album/crimes-against-white-america and it's about a 20 minute release
This. Is. AWESOME!!!
I listened to this mix without paying any attention to the track listing.
It was a fine way to spend 43:41.
I've got a couple of Straight Panic tapes - great stuff
Yeah it seems like this is just one guy's playlist and isn't really indicative of the artists' views. Straight Panic is excellent, and I've really been liking the new CBN.
i have a hard time understanding the impulse to create in a genre you supposedly hate. like doing harsh noise while hating merzbow and the incapacitants or something. i can understand people not wanting anything to do with actual national socialist/fascist music, (i'm personally not into politics in general, but will listen to both left and right bands/projects) but whitehouse, really? whitehouse and their ilk actually always seemed to me to be leftist, in that nihilistic, 20th century fin de siècle sense, when it was still all about deconstruction and transgression. at the same time, i don't have anything against this iconoclastic approach per se, kind of like how straight edge hardcore broke away from punk hedonism - or black metal rejecting the "fun" approach of death metal. it still puzzles me, though, because the ideology they have seems so mismatched with the aggression and nihilism of PE. there already is a genre that is extremely abrasive but can be more light-hearted and life-affirming: harsh noise. it's for the same reason i can't understand stuff like krishnacore, it doesn't seem very hindu/buddhist to me to get on a stage and scream and act all tough, but what do i know. in the end people can do what they want, and i'd be much happier to see friction and disagreement than people just discarding the other side completely. because they are not just saying no to fascism as far as i understand it, because at the end of the day, the attitude and music of whitehouse is not fascist, just insensitive i guess.
Quote from: brutalist_tapes on December 29, 2021, 05:55:06 PM
just insensitive i guess.
Little moderation was done on topic.
I assumed, that people will react on one message. Despite assuming so, I thought why not test if people are grown ups enough to just move on and not react as poster most likely expects. Not a chance, haha. We live in reality. If reality is there may be unknown number of boneheaded people on board, we certainly know there are people who can't handle it without putting focus on it.
Anyone can check forum behavior guide and continue here on topic if there seems to be things worth to discuss.
to me it seems like total revisionism to call bennett a racist because of that project. he may be a "boomer" or whatever, but as far as i know, that kind of "cultural appropriation" was actually a quite progressive practice in his hey day, identifying with "the other" and what not. is robert crumb also a racist? i guess you could say so. every artist who has "appropriated" the "primitive" is apparently a fascist now, all the european modernists included i guess. maybe you can't call whitehouse leftist by todays standard, but isn't their name a mockery of some right wing prude from the 80s? times change, and it seems that the cultural environment that power electronics emerged in no longer exist. now you have to be earnest and forthcoming, no more irony, no more detournement, and so on. but it used to be a practice! as i see it, genuine right wing power electronics is a recent phenomenon.
I think it depends what you call "recent"?
By early 90's, that's about 30 years ago, was bands who were not ironic, nor merely attempting to be shocking. As one example, Control Resistance. I don't think it was seen to be at the time, somehow remarkably offensive or something you should protest against.
It was one side of industrial-noise / power electronics, even if not genre defining element. One doesn't have to take it as baggage, but this element is facturally there. For anyone to see and check out.
Whitehouse and Bennet has made his point clear so many times, that I don't see need to clear his name, nor blame him for anything.
I am often puzzled how SI as a forum, would be seen as primarily favorable for... racism/fascism? It makes me think as if people who make this claim, may not be as clever and intelligent as they claim. It is possible to see beyond obvious. It is possible to feed the creative. Luckily not so much on SI, but elsewhere I see that when there would be option to do whatever creative thing and dialogue, things are awfully quiet, until there is possibility to voice concern on disapproved persons or some random who-the-fuck-cares bozo making one lazy remark. I think world needs zero anti-power electronics, it needs more power and resilience.
@brutalist_tapes
Are you replying to me? Because you are not quoting me? I never said Benett is a racist, I don't think so, but it's easy to make an argument for it looking at some of his work. Is Robert Crumb racist? No, but some his comics definitely are. Is Mark Solotroff a racist? No, but AWB Recordings definitely tried to be. Is it irony? Sure. Is it an artistic decision? Totally. Does art not need the freedom to operate in the space between grey areas, ask questions and critique the leading order and morality? Yes. That also means someone else could see it as racist and it could totally be true if in his/her opinion if there isn't a clear explanation, background is important, context is still important, even if it's meant as an ironic statement (which often is a cheap excuse and usually more a matter of 'how can I be most extreme? Nazi symbols!', and it definitely works).
Racism is not a always black/white discussion most people on all fronts want it to be, yet everyone want to have their opinion to be the 'rightest' rather listen to what actually is going on and what the real problems are. Anyway I've said enough. I don't now a single PE guy that maimed someone yet more than 6000 migrants died doing cheap labor in Qatar building stadiums for the world football cup that only will be used once. Yet racist PE is a problem. Makes sense! On with the music.
Straight Panic is a cool project, liked his Apocalypse album quite a lot. Not a fan of the label it released on though, selling $8 albums as CDs while they are clearly CDRs, thought we where over that shit by 2008 already.
Quote from: W.K. on December 29, 2021, 11:40:19 PM
@brutalist_tapes
Are you replying to me? Because you are not quoting me? I never said Benett is a racist, I don't think so, but it's easy to make an argument for it looking at some of his work. Is Robert Crumb racist? No, but some his comics definitely are. Is Mark Solotroff a racist? No, but AWB Recordings definitely tried to be. Is it irony? Sure. Is it an artistic decision? Totally. Does art not need the freedom to operate in the space between grey areas, ask questions and critique the leading order and morality? Yes. That also means someone else could see it as racist and it could totally be true if in his/her opinion if there isn't a clear explanation, background is important, context is still important, even if it's meant as an ironic statement (which often is a cheap excuse and usually more a matter of 'how can I be most extreme? Nazi symbols!', and it definitely works).
Racism is not a always black/white discussion most people on all fronts want it to be, yet everyone want to have their opinion to be the 'rightest' rather listen to what actually is going on and what the real problems are. Anyway I've said enough. I don't now a single PE guy that maimed someone yet more than 6000 migrants died doing cheap labor in Qatar building stadiums for the world football cup that only will be used once. Yet racist PE is a problem. On with the music.
Straight Panic is a cool project, liked his Apocalypse album quite a lot. Not a fan of the label it released on though, selling $8 albums as CDs while they are clearly CDRs, thought we where over that shit by 2008 already.
yeah sorry, i'm used to other forums, didn't see the quote button! i totally get what you are saying, and i don't necessarily have an opinion how the definition of racism has shifted, i just remember when it was clearly understood that people like crumb, solotroff and bennett were pushing limits regarding the view on racism, power, oppression and so on. i think that this idea that the recipient is the one who decides the works intent is a new one, and partly comes from post-modern theorizing, but i could be wrong. you could say that the time for those kinds of provokation are over, and i would kind of aggree. but for me it doesn't make it racist if some guy tried to tackle some controversial topics, in a maybe a little bit clumsy way, in the everything-goes underground culture of the last millenium. maybe off-topic, but do anyone know if the reception on for example the marquis de sade has shifted? when i went to university his work was viewed as a kind of left-field (if not leftist) transgression, deconstruction of the libertine culture prevalent in the society before the revolution and so on. i guess now most people view him as a fascist? but as i said, haven't followed these things in a while. was just surprised to see the rage against whitehouse. stuff like zyklon ss (i like the project a lot) can be expected, though.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 29, 2021, 11:16:24 PM
I think it depends what you call "recent"?
By early 90's, that's about 30 years ago, was bands who were not ironic, nor merely attempting to be shocking. As one example, Control Resistance. I don't think it was seen to be at the time, somehow remarkably offensive or something you should protest against.
It was one side of industrial-noise / power electronics, even if not genre defining element. One doesn't have to take it as baggage, but this element is facturally there. For anyone to see and check out.
Whitehouse and Bennet has made his point clear so many times, that I don't see need to clear his name, nor blame him for anything.
I am often puzzled how SI as a forum, would be seen as primarily favorable for... racism/fascism? It makes me think as if people who make this claim, may not be as clever and intelligent as they claim. It is possible to see beyond obvious. It is possible to feed the creative. Luckily not so much on SI, but elsewhere I see that when there would be option to do whatever creative thing and dialogue, things are awfully quiet, until there is possibility to voice concern on disapproved persons or some random who-the-fuck-cares bozo making one lazy remark. I think world needs zero anti-power electronics, it needs more power and resilience.
you have a lot more knowledge on the culture than i do, but maybe it kind of went under the radar due to transgression seeming to be de rigeur in the underground of 80s/90s? thats what i'm trying to get through, seems like the culture has changed a lot, and i only started in the 00's, but still it seems obvious to me. kind of like former leftist nihilists have bad conscience for having participated in all of this and now feel a new to support the new, more puritan culture? but as i said, just me thinking loudly. it seems like a lot of people have abandoned "dangerous ideas" because of unforeseen consequences and change in culture that means they are no more artistic darlings, but evil fascists... but yeah, i don't know!
Quote from: brutalist_tapes on December 29, 2021, 10:20:12 PM
maybe you can't call whitehouse leftist by todays standard, but isn't their name a mockery of some right wing prude from the 80s?
She began activism in the 60s, apparently....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Whitehouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Whitehouse)
Yeah, but there was also a relatively extreme prono mag. around at the time called Whitehouse. Apparently. So, I suppose it seemed to work well on a couple of different levels!
Quote from: burdizzo1 on December 30, 2021, 04:14:08 PM
Yeah, but there was also a relatively extreme prono mag. around at the time called Whitehouse. Apparently. So, I suppose it seemed to work well on a couple of different levels!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehouse_(magazine) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehouse_(magazine))
Quote from: brutalist_tapes on December 29, 2021, 11:50:38 PM
i think that this idea that the recipient is the one who decides the works intent is a new one, and partly comes from post-modern theorizing, but i could be wrong. you could say that the time for those kinds of provokation are over, and i would kind of aggree.
I have a sense that this was always the case, but now there is some safety, and impetus, to voice those opinions. People were thinking these things and just not saying them. Maybe that's what you're saying, though. The demand to be heard is greater than ever, or so it seems. Possibly part of the social media phenomenon?
Safety can never be underestimated, and as we can see, it's coming from both, or all, directions. Voices get more confident and louder when they feel safe enough to express them.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on December 30, 2021, 06:28:30 PM
Voices get more confident and louder when they feel safe enough to express them.
And today everybody who is smart enough to sign up on twitter is used to be a "sender" and feels confident, that his or her voice is relevant and deserves to be heard.
Quote from: brutalist_tapes on December 29, 2021, 11:50:38 PM
i think that this idea that the recipient is the one who decides the works intent is a new one, and partly comes from post-modern theorizing, but i could be wrong. you could say that the time for those kinds of provokation are over, and i would kind of aggree.
I think times of provocations are definitely not over. There are perhaps couple ways to look at it. One fact is, that people ARE provoked. They are reacting to obscenities of noise even stronger than ever before. So time of provocations over? I doubt it.
I think any art is subject to speculation of intent, observation and questioning the meaning and purpose of the works. If art was to be as blatantly clear as carrying sign at demonstration, it wouldn't be "art" in same way. So viewer experiencing and seeing art(or PE) from their own perspective is just fine with me. I think this active thinking, actively seeking meaning, actively USING art, even in ways it was not meant to, has been crucial in industrial-noise. Its not like it would teach you what to think, but more as how to approach.
More relevant question would be is the reaction of audience something that artists wants it to be? Or is there any particular thing he wants?
It may be relevant question, if there really is some particular purpose or reason for mentioned art piece. If you try to achieve something in particular, but whatever is done, it appears that presenting obscenities has very little thoughtful response, and mostly just sharp division to:
-guys who will consumer whatever nasty that is regurgitated on their direction, simply taking it as-it-is.
-guys who will reject it as repulsive bullshit they want nothing to do with.
Then question will be, does it matter? If response for creation is something else than you hope for?
And also, can the artist handle the abuse, slander, "cancellation", "misunderstanding" that can wait? Or that the nuance and thought behind release is thrown out by both parties. The fanboys of vile shit, and the.. opposite?
I tend to think, when piece of art is thrown in public, it is really out of our hands. It's hard to dictate how it should be seen. And even more importantly, that power electronics makers
have to be able to take this abuse and blame. If you don't have guts to be spat upon and "disliked", then better to things that people like. If you rather cherish opportunities on artists career, than making it all burn in bright light, there is option to stand in line. I don't know what exactly could be "achieved" in noise, if one is ready to sacrifice own vision and personality for it.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 31, 2021, 12:32:58 PM
I think times of provocations are definitely not over. There are perhaps couple ways to look at it. One fact is, that people ARE provoked. They are reacting to obscenities of noise even stronger than ever before. So time of provocations over? I doubt it.
I'd second that, but if feels like the character of "provocation" and it's consequences shifted. There are a lot of people that feel provoked or challenged by art/culture/the weather today and they use the modern communication tools to voice their opinion. Everybody with a working smartphone is an "activist". But it seems to be a lot more relevant on a personal level then the "provocations" of the past which were more aimed at conventions of society. It seems to be a lot more fragmented. And at the same time the expression of feeling provoked is seen as a method of provocation too. At times it seems to be a method of identification to just be "against" something.
And then there seems to be the expectation of immediate change after voicing critique or concern that. There seems to be a lot less willingness of discussion and acceptance today. In which I see a great danger for art and culture, if people unlearn to stand opinions and viewpoints that may be opposed to their own. Funny thing that in a scene like PE, which is usually seen as intolerant and tough, there seems to be a lot more acceptance and tolerance, at least to a certain degree.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 31, 2021, 12:32:58 PM
Quote from: brutalist_tapes on December 29, 2021, 11:50:38 PM
i think that this idea that the recipient is the one who decides the works intent is a new one, and partly comes from post-modern theorizing, but i could be wrong. you could say that the time for those kinds of provokation are over, and i would kind of aggree.
I think times of provocations are definitely not over. There are perhaps couple ways to look at it. One fact is, that people ARE provoked. They are reacting to obscenities of noise even stronger than ever before. So time of provocations over? I doubt it.
I think any art is subject to speculation of intent, observation and questioning the meaning and purpose of the works. If art was to be as blatantly clear as carrying sign at demonstration, it wouldn't be "art" in same way. So viewer experiencing and seeing art(or PE) from their own perspective is just fine with me. I think this active thinking, actively seeking meaning, actively USING art, even in ways it was not meant to, has been crucial in industrial-noise. Its not like it would teach you what to think, but more as how to approach.
More relevant question would be is the reaction of audience something that artists wants it to be? Or is there any particular thing he wants?
It may be relevant question, if there really is some particular purpose or reason for mentioned art piece. If you try to achieve something in particular, but whatever is done, it appears that presenting obscenities has very little thoughtful response, and mostly just sharp division to:
-guys who will consumer whatever nasty that is regurgitated on their direction, simply taking it as-it-is.
-guys who will reject it as repulsive bullshit they want nothing to do with.
Then question will be, does it matter? If response for creation is something else than you hope for?
And also, can the artist handle the abuse, slander, "cancellation", "misunderstanding" that can wait? Or that the nuance and thought behind release is thrown out by both parties. The fanboys of vile shit, and the.. opposite?
I tend to think, when piece of art is thrown in public, it is really out of our hands. It's hard to dictate how it should be seen. And even more importantly, that power electronics makers have to be able to take this abuse and blame. If you don't have guts to be spat upon and "disliked", then better to things that people like. If you rather cherish opportunities on artists career, than making it all burn in bright light, there is option to stand in line. I don't know what exactly could be "achieved" in noise, if one is ready to sacrifice own vision and personality for it.
yeah, you hit the nail on the head with this one. i think that was what i was trying to say after a few beers hehe... that the reception of the provocation is very blunt, or as you say, not put under much scrutiny. people simply as you say either fetischize it or outright reject it, where before, in the context of extreme music in general, it seemed like there was some kind of analysis of extreme opinions/acts going on. that's why i said it was maybe kind of over, because i still feel like something could be archieved through provocation and of course noise should never be about pleasing the audience, but on the other hand, if people either outright reject the provocations or on the other side just accepts everything that is forbidden, maybe som engagement is lost? i would very much like to see people talking more about stuff instead of rejecting and ignoring. this goes for both sides. but yes, i very much agree with your post.
I think this obvious and clearly visible reactions are not the only ones there are. There are people who may get interested in other levels, but it's unlikely that for example IG or twitter would be where that reaction is visible. It may be couple guys meeting up with beer, discussing Con-Dom, Genocide Organ new album, and ending up discussion with something that is perhaps not about the records, but clearly sparked by them.
We have no means to see and hear how audience, that may be hundred(s), or thousands, if not even tens of thousands, react on noise or PE.
What we CAN easily see, that most popular platforms are not favorable for that other type of inspiration to be seen by outsiders. I am 100% confident, and also know if for fact, that noise and p.e., is admired, appreciated and being thought provoking and eye opening, discussion-enabling substance. It simply requires that you got to be interested to be interested. You got to be ready to engage with art. Not expected to be spoon fed like child.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 31, 2021, 06:29:14 PM
I think this obvious and clearly visible reactions are not the only ones there are. There are people who may get interested in other levels, but it's unlikely that for example IG or twitter would be where that reaction is visible. It may be couple guys meeting up with beer, discussing Con-Dom, Genocide Organ new album, and ending up discussion with something that is perhaps not about the records, but clearly sparked by them.
We have no means to see and hear how audience, that may be hundred(s), or thousands, if not even tens of thousands, react on noise or PE.
What we CAN easily see, that most popular platforms are not favorable for that other type of inspiration to be seen by outsiders. I am 100% confident, and also know if for fact, that noise and p.e., is admired, appreciated and being thought provoking and eye opening, discussion-enabling substance. It simply requires that you got to be interested to be interested. You got to be ready to engage with art. Not expected to be spoon fed like child.
well said and of course artists should never self-censure, that would probably be the worst outcome of all, but again, the people doing that were probably not that dedicated in the first place. good point about never
really knowing the reception of ones work, not that it should influence the work anyway, but nice perspective and it is very true yes. i have had countless of these discussions with friends. cheers!