Intent to start putting some activity into website itself. Combining noise and recommended books will be one of the "formats". Old, new, whatever.
https://special-interests.net/main/extreme-cold/
Great thing to wake up to and have morning coffee with, unexpected and totally fascinating. Cheers
Played that Lasse Marhaug album just the other day (on yt). Never really got into his works, but this one clicked. Great material.
Also, the recommendation of books, movies etc. that have at first glance no connection to noise or pe but somehow do is very welcome.
Longer piece of something I have talked also formerly, but perhaps not in such detail:
https://special-interests.net/main/ruralist-industrial/
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 16, 2022, 03:36:34 PM
Longer piece of something I have talked also formerly, but perhaps not in such detail:
https://special-interests.net/main/ruralist-industrial/
Excellent article ! - Nuori Veri totally deserves all the attention. BTW i dont understand a word of what he says but his vocals make strong impression. And although i believe that the tracks with vocals are the best, i appreciate the 'careful' use of them. - Taking the chance to recommend these tapes : https://brownhillmafia.bandcamp.com/album/cassette-series . I read in your shop is connected project / collab [?] . Not exactly like Nuori Veri, -i wouldnt call it industrial, and there is even less track-orientation- but the core elements are here too, even more 'raw' , as they are, and most of all : the ruralist spirit. I am not sure what takes to be called radioplay but these tapes create the picture and 'telling' the story, just with sound.
Thanks for the doc tips. I ll watch.
Great essay. As someone who has spent years living and working on a farm in the middle of nowhere, a lot of this is familiar. It is often romanticized by urban folks and we would have many visitors from the nearest city show up to get their fill of good ol' down-on-the-farm living. But the reality is that it is brutal, but at the same time rewarding. I saw life and death everyday, whether its the season's crops or the animals we had to slaughter. Nights of nothing happening, no internet, no tv, just discussion with coworkers and many beers. Your connection with the Earth changes as you watch the seasons turn. It's beautiful and depressing at the same time.
I look back on those years fondly. I wish I was into making noise at the time. Some of those machines were so wretched and terrifying. Large rusted equipment that made some of the most insane mechanical noises... to go back in time and sample some of that would be a dream!
The article on ruralism and industrial reminds me a bit of Drudkh's Songs of Grief and Solitude album (which would be followed a year later by the tellingly titled "Anti-Urban" ep). I always took the album as being rather political, showing that they, as a band, actually stand behind the paganism/romanticism/definitional ruralism that they promote with their music. Several of the songs on it are acoustic and folk renditions of black metal songs they had written. To me, this is a statement that "we can still make our music even if we were to go back to a rural way of life," which is much more than most other black metal bands could come close to claiming - just like many "anti-social" noise projects that would probably give up once they lose an electrical connection!
Especially when looking the older BM bands, most often, it is not phenomena of big cities and capital area. In Finland, most of the relevant bands would come from all sorts of small towns, small cities. Later on, more people would move to Helsinki or such.
I would assume this was partially merely thing that back in the day, bands were often started simply for "having something to do". Possible couple guys really into what they did, and couple friends could be pressured in, who otherwise wouldn't necessary have the passion to do much. Even if bands may not have had any particular worldview against metropolitan qualities & urban, it still had an effect.
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on January 20, 2022, 06:42:26 AM
To me, this is a statement that "we can still make our music even if we were to go back to a rural way of life," which is much more than most other black metal bands could come close to claiming - just like many "anti-social" noise projects that would probably give up once they lose an electrical connection!
Sure they can still make it - but would they be able to record it? :)
Perhaps to the point of "Rural Industrial" -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHCmzvzCmhI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHCmzvzCmhI)
ICONIC SURFACES - THE RITA & ROBERT LONGO combination:
https://special-interests.net/main/iconic-surfaces/
It seems this is the same Robert Longo who made the drawing for the first Glenn Branca LP. Always liked that cover art.
Quote from: impulse manslaughter on February 10, 2022, 11:38:18 PM
It seems this is the same Robert Longo who made the drawing for the first Glenn Branca LP. Always liked that cover art.
Correct. That image is from his earliest work, the Men in the Streets series, in which he staged photographs of himself and others wearing suits throughout New York, and then drew them photorealistically.
One thing I like about Longo is that he also sometimes works outside his comfort zone and colossally falls on his face in failure. There was a sculpture of his on the balcony of the Whitney when the new building first opened, a cyborg looking Star Trek type thing, that was honest to god one of the most hideous works of art I've ever seen, but still quite awesome. He also made the Johnny Mnemonic (forget spelling) film from a William Gibson story and it's genuinely unwatchable. I have most respect for artists who fail.
Slightly long piece about... Malicious art, or what should it be called?
https://special-interests.net/main/malicious-electronics/
https://special-interests.net/main/insider-art/
Lau Nau, Carl Abrahamsson, Oranki Art, enviromental art, etc. book, cd and travel combination.
New essay, related to some recent discussions on forum, but also more:
https://special-interests.net/main/noise-youth-culture/
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 01, 2022, 11:13:37 AM
New essay, related to some recent discussions on forum, but also more:
https://special-interests.net/main/noise-youth-culture/
I also never understood the whole "your parents bought that Synth for you" angle. As if Noise would end up better, just because someone worked in the coal mines to buy it...
And I can also see plenty of interest in new material. When I started, I was in my mid twenties and some of the biggest supporters were guys in their 50s who had already been around in the 80ies. From my personal surroundings, I could name Pissoir Rouge and Sodomy from Beyond as artists who got recognition despite being new and young-ish. I have also witnessed such projects move better than supposed "safe seller" projects from back in the day
QuoteWhat is youth culture now, if the parents are no longer overly hostile towards even transgressive expressions? Or they may be far more experienced in all the oddities?
There is always
something ! - I dont have kids but i see the kids in my neighborhood listening that Trap music made by some native idiots and i wonder what if my kid started playing this bullshit in my house. No matter how 'open-minded' a parent can be, i dont think anyone can tolerate stupidity.
Son, i dont mind, be a pervert, but dont be a stupid, hah.
I recently was reading interview of one of the most successful rappers in Finland, who complained that his latest work was called drill. People don't get it, as supposedly he was first ever to make unique beat that combines both, drill and trap. I was quite amused by this groundbreaking innovation in 2022.
QuoteI do not rule out possibility of new generations finding the new ways of doing noise that is improving what we have had before. I do not see "online noise" as progression at all. If new expressions of noise happen firmly hand in hand with climate of mainstream culture, I don't see that as progress, but regress.
Old bitter man writes about youth culture.....
how it is bitter? Critique to "internet culture", is not for youth, but for internet culture.
Of course it is personal view, that in history of underground culture, pretty much all vital and new was born out of rejecting what was mainstream hegemony. In contemporary underground, there is fairly prevalent quality of not rejecting the of ways of mainstream, but even endorsement of it. Lets say you would have said some years ago that entire underground would be based in aiding business model of worlds biggest corporations and operating almost 1:1 in methods of mainstream culture. Formerly, this would have seen as joke. Now it is sort of reality one has to live with, but I would question can it be said progression (to good)? If so, why?
Good write-up!
I agree that youth per se isn't crucial to any scene as a whole, but rather just that its participants remain active, and that zines/message boards/discussions in general don't let nostalgia outweigh the present.
However, for a small local scene, new young blood is important. Not that it has to be youngsters bringing some new spark to the circles, but that's just how it usually is. At least in Gothenburg we never see any new 40-somethings appear out of nowhere with innovative noise released. But once in a while some teen just shows up, with a tape he/she recorded in dad's garage, and wants to play shows. Without these younguns - at least where I'm active - our local thing would quickly have dwindled down to three tired dads doing our same old thing, trading releases over a beer three times a year.
As for the rare relatively old farts, we have two in Gothenburg as well. One soon-to-be-60 and a retired eye doctor who comes to every gig, buys half the merch table and writes about the stuff online.
One noise gig I attended this year, was organized at one bands parents garage. Therefore gig was private, since there is only a limited number of noise brutes one would want to have getting drunk in kind of middle class suburb's. It was good moment to say hello to father going walk out the dog, while in garage was artists doing soundcheck and probably 30 people hanging out and drinking on front lawn/street. Several people I would certainly consider the noise youth.
I have no idea of everybody's age, but when thinking pretty new Finn projects, lets say YANA/Amek-Maj, Aprapat, Mogao, etc... none of these guys come totally out of nowhere, but neither they have massive history of noise - at least in form of putting stuff out. Still several of these "new" guys are like family men with kids and stuff like that. Not youngsters. Or lets say Athropist, first releases I know of him date merely 4 years back, and I'd assume he is 40+? And guy who is the most active one to push new young names into live noise in Helsinki area.
They still bring new vital stuff into the table, creators, publishers, organizers, so for me it is firmly making point of what I was making. People that will ask other people come along, create something bigger, that I hope to be future. It is the beauty of noise in a way that there is (theoretically) very little scene uniformity, and at least over here, it seems that young organizers ask the veterans to join, the old ones invite newbies into releases and gigs and so on.
I only had the chance to skim the article, so hopefully this is not repeating some of what was said: One of the things I wondered about when reading the article was the link between noise/industrial and what I guess could be called the cultural background and source material that surrounds what seems to be so much of it. While knowledge of Throbbing Gristle's philosophy about taboo imagery and ideas or an awareness of the citation of contemporary geopolitical conflicts in the works of Genocide Organ are certainly not intrinsically neccessary in order to get a lot out of their music, I think it does provide a deeper appreciation for what they are doing. In turn, I would think that developed personal interests would tend to lead artists to producing noise/industrial works that are more interesting.
I guess what I am saying is that it takes a lot of time to really cultivate personal interests in these cultural inspirations that can be found across noise music, and that that might explain some of why noise/industrial might not seem to be much of a "youth culture." It takes a long time to read the books, watch the movies, hunt down the artworks, even listen to other's noise--as well as, perhaps, a degree of maturity to fully appreciate them.
As addition, I am sure this video is posted before on SI board, but suitable example of good youth harsh noise. Deattan live at his high school back in 2016. I got some of his CDR's and perhaps just a notch more visible release in the scene was Hazarda Bruo Sonsistemo / Fricsvel / The Day Of The Antler / Deattán - Juurimusiikkia Teknologian Jättömailta -tape from 2019.
It would be curious to know how many young harsh noise artists are somehow visible noise markers, and it wouldn't be the top secret hobby that rest of school kids better not know about, hah... After the set you got kids on the cue to cantine saying "WHAT THE FUCK?" "WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!?"
His studio works qualify well into level of international harsh noise, but it is no surprising very few know about artist since there is no releases on "scene labels" so to say. Check this:
https://youtu.be/Z4mr0bTjnlM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 05, 2022, 07:11:01 PM
.... Or lets say Athropist, first releases I know of him date merely 4 years back, and I'd assume he is 40+? And guy who is the most active one to push new young names into live noise in Helsinki area.
I was 40 when I first performed live as Atrophist. So no, I certainly don't represent, or belong to any kind of youth movement.
Why such a late start? Well, many reasons. I lived in South America as a kid and teenager, well before the internet era. The radio played only Top 40, and the live music scene was mostly local folk music. Some of that stuff I liked and still do, but I was unwelcome in that scene as a white foreigner, who was perceived as rich and upper class. I'm neither of those, but that's how I was seen, anyway. I understand it to some extent.
However, early death metal tapes were circulating. The Florida bands such as Morbid Angel, Deicide, Obituary etc. were especially popular among the
hediondo (esp. "stinky", "smelly") crowd. So there were some attempts to achieve something similar. Very little gear, and even worse, hardly any motivated like-minded people to collaborate with. I knew there was a death metal band in the same town, but (and this will seem absurd to children of the internet era) I didn't know them, had no common friends, didn't know where they hung out or practiced. The one time they were due to play live at an outdoor event at the athletic field of a local college, I was out of town on a school trip.
Came back to Finland later, armed service, university, even a half-assed attempt to become a productive, upstanding citizen of this country. Hah. Also, due to a medical issue I became unable to play any traditional instruments.
I had been aware of "noise music" for a long time. Had a couple of Merzbow records, but regarded it all mostly as an interesting curiosity for a long time. However, live noise events changed that. I also realized that this could be something I could do. I don't mean to suggest that noise is easy, just that the challenge is not in the dexterity of your hands and feet.
The final speak was attending a few shows at the legendary Kontti. After that I realized that I had to give it a go myself.
I started organizing shows for partly selfish reasons: so that I could play live myself. I've always thought that if you want something to happen, you have to do it yourself. Not that I'm trying to recreate the Kontti experience, of course not. That would be stupid, dishonest and —of course— doomed to fail.
To the
noise youth, I say:
organise more shows. I know it's challenging, it's the one thing that remains a challenge these days. Gear is plentiful and affordable, promotion is easy and free on social media, etc. Still, it's not as hard as some seem to think, and nobody expects everything to be perfect. In fact, it's more fun if things are a bit imperfect.
Wow. Some story from Atrophist. Hi is the only and one guy I guess to do first YANA show. You remember? There was EoD, Oksennus, Atrophist & Satanoid, Rotat, Pain Nail and cancelled Halthan reasons what we later could heard. I was asking who's organising this evening...? And that's how things starts to roll. We had the only YANA cd released few months back. When I told Sami(my partner in this crime called YANA) that I was speaking about some live he was...silence.
After that summer Atrophist really make an happening to happen. The place was unorthodox for loud noise, so I thought to do it a happening anyway. The later our lives followed that...circumstances could be anything.
If I'm correct Janne has booked as four times. And it's without one, every live sets in Helsinki. And That's half our live sets...so, really magnificent piece of all public YANA. In situation we live now there is only one more coming in Pori, Fin, next month.
Yeah I know this is middle age thing to do some abstract sound. And I'm totally fine whit it because in my opinion you have to crawling you way to find some gold. This is sound what is over every popular sound. This is Heroin for Lipton lickers.
I'm in my worst thought about case 10 years back. Some guy twisting pedals in some basement...where's raised fists,chaos and nude 18yo tits? Only in our head boy, sadly only there anymore. But!!! You can imagine all that and more, and do more recordings.
So..I don't mind. If you are twelve and do sound like "noise" so do it. My 4yo daughter do it it for fun. But there is one very important issue with that kind of sound!!! There is people who really can express their feelings best with those few signals. And that's some you have to take seriously and with appropriate.
Maybe a big part of why people think that youth holds the key to revitalizing the scene of choice is that they believe that they're more likely to take risks and approach things from a new or unique perspective. It seems like the exact opposite is true, possibly due to the advent of nearly all youth culture moving online, which means that any chance taken and spread is open to criticism almost immediately and, kids being kids, any negative criticism is likely to get them to stop what they're doing and take the path of least resistance/greater acceptance from their chosen peer group.
Also agree with Herr Atrophist that a big part of keeping anything vital is to just get out there and do it yourself. That's been my personal experience with making music, from making the tapes/layouts/recordings on my own to spreading the final product to people whose work inspired or otherwise made an impression on me. Never hurts to ask.
Was just discussing with a couple of friends that, while it's almost impossible to create something from ZERO external influence these days that would still fall into the parameters of a certain genre, it's the creativity one employs in utilizing said influences that seems to be largely missing. A lack of passion as well, going back to what a previous poster mentioned about one's interests developing over time as one absorbs these various influences. Another thing to be blamed on social media fueled "like" culture and the short attention spans brought about by its use? There's very little that seems to be positive that's been brought about by the prevalence of it.
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on July 05, 2022, 09:36:05 PM
I only had the chance to skim the article, so hopefully this is not repeating some of what was said: One of the things I wondered about when reading the article was the link between noise/industrial and what I guess could be called the cultural background and source material that surrounds what seems to be so much of it. While knowledge of Throbbing Gristle's philosophy about taboo imagery and ideas or an awareness of the citation of contemporary geopolitical conflicts in the works of Genocide Organ are certainly not intrinsically neccessary in order to get a lot out of their music, I think it does provide a deeper appreciation for what they are doing. In turn, I would think that developed personal interests would tend to lead artists to producing noise/industrial works that are more interesting.
I guess what I am saying is that it takes a lot of time to really cultivate personal interests in these cultural inspirations that can be found across noise music, and that that might explain some of why noise/industrial might not seem to be much of a "youth culture." It takes a long time to read the books, watch the movies, hunt down the artworks, even listen to other's noise--as well as, perhaps, a degree of maturity to fully appreciate them.
Agreed in principle with the last paragraph. Big part of the industrial/noise scene is the aura of being the most edgy than all subcultures with deep references to visual arts, literature, philosophy, politics and controversial subject matter etc.
Things that require the person to be well versed in those topics which in itself is time consuming or could be the outcome of a longtime personal journey with engaging in this already 40+ years old scene.
Early TG and industrial was sort of counter-counter culture as the punk scene was the dominant subculture of the time which lacked the refinement and sophistication of the industrial and attracted more the youth of that era.
In theory the youth have more boldness and energy to push things further than their forefathers, protest and differentiate while the old are perceived as sclerotic and holding to nostalgia or preserving the tradition.
I think this analogy doesn't apply for the industrial/noise scene for the above reasons and because it's too diverse and complex.
The world/context has changed so much since the early days of TG that makes you even question if the industrial/noise scene can be relevant or have anything interesting to say about this new world. Could be a combination of both lack of youth in numbers(due to demographic collapse in the west) and then those few youths that exist having no interest in engaging or taking things further instead of adding one more formulaic noise tape in the canon (that nobody asked for)
The world/context has changed so much since the early days of TG that makes you even question if the industrial/noise scene can be relevant or have anything interesting to say about this new world.
[/quote]
I agree with most of your points, but feel like this should be opposed. There are tons topics - cultural, personal or geopolitical - that relate to today's world which can lend themselves well to the industrial/noise "treatment". An industrial/noise take on the anthropocene and the consequent mass extinction f.ex. could be awesome, right? I don't want to bring up a lot of potential good topis here, though, I'm just saying that the world is consistently fucked up and that all the ways in which it is fucked up can be succesfully brought into a noise/industrial context and given new meaning and significance. Whether it is done by young or "old" people is irrellevant. So I agree with many of you - youth is not super important for any underground culture to thrive or survive, what is important is some good output of music and some level of scene activity (live shows and printed fanzines sure, but also blogs, podcasts etc. that are part of "internet culture").
Depending how you want to to stretch definition of noise/industrial, but lets say Dave Phillips "sixth mass extinction" observing the current issues at hand.
LP comes with newspaper format insert with plenty of things. Info of B-side says:
Quoteradical hope - live action (studio version):
this incarnation of live action was initiated in january 2016 and has developed since. triggered by a broken heart, it's a critical analysis of subjective behaviourisms, self-reflections, self-criticisms and conclusions thereof. the subsequent translation of derived intentions into ritualised actions include purging, activating learning and healing processes, self-betterment, empowerment and hair-burning. has since morphed into a piece about the relationship of the human as a species with planet earth as a cherished entity, such as a loved one, a friend, a partner, a companion, a parent or a family member, a home or an origin.
I don't think approach of original industrial has changed or became obsolete. It would be just matter of seeing what is topic/theme what is the substance. What would be the substance that is no longer strong or at least has potential - I doubt there is such thing. On superficial level we may no longer relate to some details that is used. Characters we don't know, history that we are not aware of, references we no longer really understand, but the actual substance that is beyond that level, remains as strong as ever.
There very neat insight of trends in contemporary noise found on S&W forum:
http://screamandwrithe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=343
3rd message on topic buy apneicvoid finds very nicely the contemporary trends. Like many say, top-3 fits more widely with art, but also to society and overall dialogue very well. But perhaps the the core of analysis is what of those categories would be now trend
ing, haha.
Lets say, we have fairly abundant conclusions, that Interracial Sex, Himukalt or Koufar would be the strong new and fresh things out there. This can be true, I do not object that. Each produced growingly better recordings and are recognized for them. But there are countless artists doing great recordings. Looking why it would be so, could be explained, besides good noise, that there is notion of personal. Most advocate people who glorify mentioned project, appear to do it based on category how personal and "real" is it. Socio-Political category being interesting thing as well, as it often includes the personal element, do we value content unless the creator is underlined to be talking about first hand experience?
Dave Phillips, it certainly is personal too (
subjective behaviourisms, self-reflections, self-criticisms and conclusions thereof. the subsequent translation of derived intentions into ritualised actions include purging, activating learning and healing processes, self-betterment, empowerment and hair-burning), but also expands it to level where we regardless do we know of DP or who, what, when, where he is, work speaks.
I think neat example how there is a bit of personal, bit of sociopolitical, bit of other things, is Cryptofascisme mentioned in other topic(s). French man, who uses topics of french taboos. They are not personal in a way, that he would necessarily talk of himself or his experiences. But they certainly belong to the cultural climate what probably effects a lot of things. There and elsewhere. Even the identity and history of country or people, who prefer to be known as good guys on the right side of history. Those who may not know, Cryptofascisme deals with things like French role in Somalian genocide. French nuclear tests in africa back in 60's. That kind of things what in 2022 may appear as "ancient history", even if they might just be the key to explain some of the current behavior, current attitudes, current social transitions that are happening. Some could rule them out as topics of generic industrial music, yet there is strength to use them to see something bigger... If one needs something contemporary, one could easily take observation of currently hot topics of extinction of species etc. One can cry about evil japanese killing whales and dolphins or watch video of bloody massacre at the faroe island.. but I would suspect some french man could provide a bit of cold statistic about this matter, hah... In very much core of industrial noise. To see
beyond personal, beyond emotion, and things that often remain hidden below surface. Not to be downsized into personal experience or character of creator. I think that exactly is what usually needs a bit of age/maturity.
In situation where "personal" is glorified as superior to other type of content, emerges some things I find counter productive for noise/industrial. I wrote a piece about it for SI earlier this summer, but it became way too long for online publication, so it has to wait for future paper magazines.
For Koufar one note I'd like to make clear. In the projects history only 2-3 releases have deeply personal lyrics, themes within them.
The rest are all about Lebanese history and culture. Sure, I've gotten to experience war, a refugee camp and topics surrounding the world of Lebanon. I mean whats more Industrial then say a society conflicting over their identity like on the "Phoenicianism" release? Whats more PE then discussing/presenting a massacre/genocide ("1(7)8(7)6(7)0") as well as touching on some of the most ugliest infighting from my people (leaders killing their own, as well as their victims families)?
I guess the "realness" factor just comes from the simple reality that the topics all occurred according to history or are actively happening. "Realness" in that sense that my Grandfather has been captured on film numerous times shaking hands, giving kisses (like the italians kissing on the cheek) with Bachir Gemayel and his father Pierre who both are mentioned extensively throughout the discography and the collaboration with SHIFT being wholly dedicated to Pierre Gemayel.
Koufar isn't completely about "the self", never really has been looking back now at the discography and anyone saying that obviously isn't listening, or reading into things at all. Has only been a cog in the rest of the machine that is Koufar.
Also, been wanting me to bring up this point for sometimes but the fact is that SLOGUN is a project that is all those things you think detrimental to Industrial/PE, Mikko. A Project that is influenced heavily by his life, the streets, and hip hop culture (particularly graffiti). I still have Jon's performance notes from the final performance and in it Jon specifically writes, "do not look at the audience, make it about yourself," and also my favorite "I exist because of this". A whole lot of "ME" talk. Maybe needs a new thread, but frankly I think SLOGUN is that "real life" shit minus the albums he's done about serial killers. I don't think what SLOGUN has done is do any harm but open the door for others who want to explore that side of PE/Industrial which I think is valid as any other.
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 13, 2022, 07:11:12 PM
For Koufar one note I'd like to make clear. In the projects history only 2-3 releases have deeply personal lyrics, themes within them.
Link that was given, Koufar was indeed included in the 2nd category, "Socio-political" with comment of
often overlaps with 'personal' but with greater scope. I would think that is fair assessment of what lyrics are? Even when being about Lebasene history and culture, it is personal compared to lets say.... Genocide Organ dealing with topic they have picked? Neither is inferior, just different approach, in terms of how it is personal to creator.
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 13, 2022, 07:11:12 PM
I guess the "realness" factor just comes from the simple reality that the topics all occurred according to history or are actively happening. "Realness" in that sense that my Grandfather has been captured on film numerous times shaking hands, giving kisses (like the italians kissing on the cheek) with Bachir Gemayel and his father Pierre who both are mentioned extensively throughout the discography and the collaboration with SHIFT being wholly dedicated to Pierre Gemayel.
The question of realness comes up once in a while, but seems like more often nowadays than before? I consider it trending approach of our times, as mainstream has already reached years ago level where actor sh/could not act something that he/she is not. Visiting the exhibition of youth artists while ago, had 80 artists, and dominating creations were in lines of my eating disorder, my body dysphoria, my mental illness, my medication, my identity, and so on. Like it or not, is kind of irrelevant, if we are just observing what would be currently prevailing or trending categories in art. Or social media. Comics. etc..
Realness factor is interesting in a way, that usually it tends to indicate implying something being more real. This is what I noticed in recent WCN episode where was mentioned that something that occurred in someones family as topic was more real than industrial/power electronics generally having "theme/study".
At certain age, people have usually experienced it all. All sorts of struggles, illness, death of loved ones, alienation from surroundings and so on. Some of it powerful and life altering experienced. Sometimes can be purely biological transformation what happens there. Personal and real. However, there are tons of things that have
occurred according to history or are actively happening, and to me it seems quite odd one would need to think its the artist family ties what make something real. As example: Lets say, I would make release about Finnish civil war or incidents related to WWII. How more real it becomes if I would report what my family went through, as opposed to dealing with these historical things from some other perspective? How much should listener know how these things had effect on people related to my bloodline? Regardless of that information, it would be all real, all factual. All having very real and physical effect to who I am, and how society turned out to be and so on.
In some cases I do appreciate the so called "getting your hands dirty" - first hand experience, but this leads to thing where I think we go more demanding area in art. Demand to see beyond what as viewer in current climate dominated by
personal is trained to see.
For example: In one hand you may expect "sex noise", to be personal in a way that you deal with what you know. Then people making remarks about lonely teenage virgins. Why? Couldn't it be just perfectly twisted and bizarre to have sex noise from lonely virgins, as it offers different angle to art. What is totally real there, might be realness of frustration, realness to pornographic addition, realness of unrealistic expectations and so on. It could be far more painful and dark, than some healthy report of personal functional sex life, haha...
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 13, 2022, 07:11:12 PM
Also, been wanting me to bring up this point for sometimes but the fact is that SLOGUN is a project that is all those things you think detrimental to Industrial/PE, Mikko. A Project that is influenced heavily by his life, the streets, and hip hop culture (particularly graffiti). I still have Jon's performance notes from the final performance and in it Jon specifically writes, "do not look at the audience, make it about yourself," and also my favorite "I exist because of this". A whole lot of "ME" talk. Maybe needs a new thread, but frankly I think SLOGUN is that "real life" shit minus the albums he's done about serial killers. I don't think what SLOGUN has done is do any harm but open the door for others who want to explore that side of PE/Industrial which I think is valid as any other.
I don't object "me talk", if the
me is interesting. What Slogun deals with often, is things like self loathing, destructive, depressive things. You can approach that from looking mirror or looking out of the window. There are topics that are depicted to small, but expands into bigger thing.
I reject idea that
me or underlined
personal would be important or more "real" than other approaches in noise. Slogun certainly offered always new angle to power electronics. Nothing really is detrimental to power electronics, if it is fitting. I would guess some projects or artists having content drenched in delusional self importance and other such things could be touching very much same area as serial killers? Depending how you look at it. Not necessarily as interesting, though.
Urban decay of NYC certainly felt almost mythical back in the day, but certainly something where violent howling electronic racket fits perfectly.
I was just talking with couple persons how it may be a lot of work to do writing online. Most webzines always quit eventually due lack of energy or time to do things. That reminded me, SI www site hasn't had any updates for long time. The plan to do noise essays at least one every month is quick to forget. Thing was that essays written for SI #14 and 15 were originally meant for online. They became too long, and only way to make them work seemed to be paper format.
Perhaps SI gets the monthly writing thing going on. We'll see. I do have bunch of topics in mind. For those interested to read text, here is one new book & noise combo post. Introducing noteworthy art book and some noise:
https://special-interests.net/main/noise-assemblage/
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on April 09, 2023, 09:40:33 AM
I was just talking with couple persons how it may be a lot of work to do writing online. Most webzines always quite eventually due lack of energy or time to do things.
The lack of energy comment is pretty spot on. The
Noise Receptor blog for reviews has been running in parallel to the print issues since inception, with the general intent for the regular posting of online reviews to promote the physical print editions.
But after issue no.10 came out a year ago, I found I lacked the energy to continue uploading reviews on a weekly basis. I have since made the decision to stop regularly updating the blog with online reviews due to lack of energy and the fact that the sale and print run of the magazine has remained steady for the last half decade (600 copies each issue).
Reviews will remain in upcoming print issues, but perhaps they will then function in the capacity of providing 'longer lasting promotion', rather that dropping like a stone online around when the release first came out.
Quote from: re:evolution on April 12, 2023, 07:52:18 AM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on April 09, 2023, 09:40:33 AM
I was just talking with couple persons how it may be a lot of work to do writing online. Most webzines always quite eventually due lack of energy or time to do things.
The lack of energy comment is pretty spot on. The Noise Receptor blog for reviews has been running in parallel to the print issues since inception, with the general intent for the regular posting of online reviews to promote the physical print editions.
But after issue no.10 came out a year ago, I found I lacked the energy to continue uploading reviews on a weekly basis. I have since made the decision to stop regularly updating the blog with online reviews due to lack of energy and the fact that the sale and print run of the magazine has remained steady for the last half decade (600 copies each issue).
Reviews will remain in upcoming print issues, but perhaps they will then function in the capacity of providing 'longer lasting promotion', rather that dropping like a stone online around when the release first came out.
I understand, but I have to say I miss those regular reviews.
New SI noise writing extends topics also into hardcore punk, underground comics, rubbert fetishism and more!
It touches some topic discussed recently in SI forum, plus perhaps offers some less known details for those who like Bizarre Uproar, Terveet Kädet and related finn underground culture.
https://special-interests.net/main/world-of-rubber-blood/
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 22, 2023, 06:09:58 PM
New SI noise writing extends topics also into hardcore punk, underground comics, rubbert fetishism and more!
It touches some topic discussed recently in SI forum, plus perhaps offers some less known details for those who like Bizarre Uproar, Terveet Kädet and related finn underground culture.
https://special-interests.net/main/world-of-rubber-blood/
"Almost like fan loveletter to artists", well I'd say not even almost, heh! Nothing wrong with that though. I have been aware of Terveet Kädet for ages, but didn't really click with them until a few years after I had already gotten well acquainted with Bizarre Uproar. As I got into things in this "reverse" order, it was quite funny how the more I kept digging into TK, the more I kept finding TK references in BU's titles, artworks, lyrics... Pretty much everywhere. It is right there for everyone to see, but both Läjä and Markkula still have very much their own things and approaches going on despite seemingly having very similar interests.
Looking from the outside it is quite astouding how calmly these people approach their creations that, for others, are worth... well, public love letters at least! Like how Markkula had sent out even his own copies of many BU (and F&V) releases. I think I read somewhere that at some point Läjä had gone to check on his paintings (such as the one on the cover of the first Vihanmiehet album) in some storage, scraped some mold off them, and left them there hidden from sight. It makes my skull creak to think how stuff like that would be left to collect dust or goddamn mold in some storage, but of course for the makers they might be just one thing among many of their creations, and possibly one they're already sick of. As a related note I would happily see a more extensive reissue of Läjä's comics than the X book from years ago, but I'm not sure who'd be up to that task (and if the man himself has any interest in having that happen).
Similar to BU, Läjä is also not too shy on recycling/re-employing some of his old stuff. At least some art from X has been recycled to be used for Kuolema (Finnish HC) on their artworks and shirts, like the four standing figures on Kuolema/RB split art are directly taken from one X cover, but now come with additional zombies in the bottom. I recall him mentioning about starting to make a coming where zombies take over the city of Tornio, but as it hasn't been completed (as far as I know) I wonder if some of that has been repurposed to be used for the zombie artworks too... Who knows. I know these are quite minor things and I'm not trying to point them out as flaws, but similar to TK's enduring lyrical style and themes, this could be seen as one more similar thing between the two artists, or yet one aspect to how they keep repurposing and reusing the same core ideas in new ways. Repetition that's there for some other use than to hide lack of new ideas.
Läjä has made a lot of artworks for the bands Kuolema and The Carnival, both of which could say to share some of the same passions and attitude. No rubber/latex stuff, but similar honesty to one's own passions and disregard for scene rules, and a taste for bleak things and death. But this links to what was mentioned in the article, that Äijälä is such a long-standing figure who's been involved in a lot of things that if you're just curious about any deeper or weirder recess of the Finnish underground, it's likely you've come across something by (or closely related to) him but might not have noticed it. Might be the comics in some old (or fairly new) underground magazine, lyrics he's made some other band (like Apulanta on that one 7"), artworks, obscure electronic works... all sorts of stuff. And others making covers or tributes of something he's been involved in, of course. Personally I first got heavily into some TK cover songs performed by other bands (Loinen's Musta Jumala is a big reason for making the track very important for me) and Kuolema's artworks (particularly the first 7") before getting into the actual original works.
Obviously I am aware how people would be horrified by both artists in this time and age, but that doesn't make their attitude and honesty in following their own passions and interests any less inspirational and impressive for me.
QuoteAuthor quotes infamous Finnish theatre figure, director and controversialist Jouko Turkka, who stated that children are not really creative. Child tests and tries whatever because his/hers nature is still sort of biologically and mechanically directed to do so. There is more curiosity, than creativity. He argues creativity is quality of adult human, based on former knowledge and processing that knowledge further – in creative ways.
Not sure I agree with that, although there may be an issue with definitions in different languages. But taking this at face value, creativity is very simply the act of making something aesthetic, which children are more prone to do than adults. The level of knowledge is not really the determinant, but that a person, child or adult, is taking what they do know and applying it.
If there is a difference between children and adults re creativity, it's that adults are often more socially inhibited to be creative, whereas we allow children to pain, draw, sing, dance, etc because we don't extend the same social/cultural inhibitions.
And culture plays a big part in this too, so it depends on the culture.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on April 09, 2023, 09:40:33 AM
I was just talking with couple persons how it may be a lot of work to do writing online. Most webzines always quit eventually due lack of energy or time to do things. That reminded me, SI www site hasn't had any updates for long time. The plan to do noise essays at least one every month is quick to forget. Thing was that essays written for SI #14 and 15 were originally meant for online. They became too long, and only way to make them work seemed to be paper format.
Perhaps SI gets the monthly writing thing going on. We'll see. I do have bunch of topics in mind. For those interested to read text, here is one new book & noise combo post. Introducing noteworthy art book and some noise:
https://special-interests.net/main/noise-assemblage/
It's been a bit since this was posted, but I only just read it now. Very interesting (especially the Harri artworks)!
One aspect of a lot of assemblage art that I don't think I see you mentioning (and it leaves me wondering about) is appropriation of other's images, sounds, art, etc. In visual art, I think of people like Cornell including prints of other artist's works in his shadow boxes. In noise, I think of one noise maker creating sounds from other people's released noise---where the sound is just taken/used, perhaps without the knowledge/content of the original artist (as opposed to collaboration). I think Emil Beaulieau did this? Or even The Gerogerigegege's "bootlegs" of his own past releases or creating albums composed entirely of music taken from Cambodian (so say the rumors) pop songs. Perhaps Merzbow's constant self-quoting as well.
It makes me think now also of this project: https://artistsbookreviews.com/2022/12/29/copy-no-1/
I guess a final question that this leads to for me: What is plagiarism/copying in noise?
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on June 08, 2023, 07:07:36 AM
In noise, I think of one noise maker creating sounds from other people's released noise---where the sound is just taken/used, perhaps without the knowledge/content of the original artist (as opposed to collaboration).
I remember reading on this forum that Con-Dom has done this as well - the example of using something from Odal was given.
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on June 08, 2023, 07:07:36 AMI guess a final question that this leads to for me: What is plagiarism/copying in noise?
This is a good question. Maybe one to start a thread with?
I recall that there would be such topic, but whatever search I do, can't find it. It is interesting topic, as there are countless examples, where someone uses other people's noise. This not being even some clueless plagiarist, but actually some of the noises most legendary names.
Such as, Macronympha being infamous for using tons of other peoples noise. It doesn't even happen in ways that they would have always asked permission, just used something if they felt it useful. I must have mentioned sending Grunt debut CD album (Perfect World) to Roemer and he sent me compliments about some oscillations on couple of tracks, mentioning he took them for the next Macronympha tape.. haha. Can't remember what tape that was. Not sure do I have it even. This is back in the 90's.
Emil Beaulieau is absolutely clearest example, that big part of his noise is playing other people noise records and making stuff from that. I recall story of album such a Moonlight in Vermont, and story goes Jason Lescalleet thinking the album is like.... mostly his stuff, uncredited. Emil just playing his vinyl in his ways.
Con-Dom rarely "plays noise". If ever. I recall artists saying last time he actually played something in Con-Dom, was late 80's when at one session he taped one key of organ down to create static tone for one track. Mostly it is source tapes. Conceptual sounds pulled from variety of sources, I guess occasional own recording, but many times in later album, there is credits where "acknowledgements due to: " list includes noise makers whos sound had been used. I guess often those are requested contributors? In some cases, like All In Good Faith, release is like half loops or tracks pulled from ODAL tape from 1987, and no credits in cover for source. Most of 90's releases always lists the sources who submitted the sounds. I don't know if latest album, acknowledging Atrax Morgue, was something Con-Dom had been given by artists for such purpose. Might be just using morbid synth tones due conceptual reasons. Entire work of Con-Dom is like puzzle, collage of reference to all types of arts, including lyrics, sounds, etc. Putting things together, rather than "playing songs". It is quite different from copycats.
BLOD - the harsh noise Blod of Sweden, I guess his works was often Japanese noise comp blasted via distortion pedals? Still seen perfectly legit to be 3xLP release worth item, not plagiarism.. heh
I recall BDN also got "caught" for making song using pretty much just Monte Cazazza track and adding some bassy hum on it?
or Merzbow Batztoutai With Material Gadgets, liner notes saying "Fake electro acoustic music dedicated to GRM/INA, WERGO, DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON, PHILLIPS & ERATO recording artists.".. and wasn't Masami basically just pulling sources from bunch of artists of those labels.. and making one of worshipped landmarks of genre with... "stolen sounds"?
So... in short, I guess, using other peoples sounds, there are many ways to do it. I personally don't do it almost ever, since I simply happen to like doing noise, and picking up someone elses noise wouldn't be as satisfying as making it myself. Out of countless releases, there are couple loops that were pulled out of someones release. (As example, I recall it was G-Hörsturz 7" having press defect and in middle of side having locking groove.. and using that before had any means of doing "loops". Song being this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcJbAoraO_4 )
When talking of copycats and plagiarism, I suppose instead of using sounds, perhaps it is less about that, and plagiarism appears in ways of "I'm making HWN like The Rita, with similar artwork like The Rita", "I am making filthy & violent noise like BU, with artwork that looks as it was designed by F&V", "our harsh noise duo will be like cover band of Incapacitants, just making it more like generic US harsh noise"... Perhaps all self made, but with clear intent to replicate something what has been done. This is quite different mentality from stuff like Con-Dom or Emil Beaulieau, who would certainly use other peoples sound, but they go through transformation to become their own work.
Live report:
https://special-interests.net/main/harsh-frequencies-over-limburg-ii/