what is the honest to logic difference between the two. they seem too similar to be different subgenres.
Depends how "pure" classifications one intends to make. When we look at what used to be called power electronics and what it sounded back in 80's, it is quite different what these days gets labeled under PE. Modern day PE could be simply filed under some sort of "post-industrial". However, death industrial most often has quite narrow style and type of sounds and while some PE might be close, the old style material appears to have much less in common.
I've always considered Death Industrial to be slower paced, brooding, "darker". Power Electronics would be more frenetic, abrasive.
Simplified:
PE - Whitehouse
Death Industrial - BDN
Quote from: Invisible War on January 08, 2013, 08:23:17 PM
I've always considered Death Industrial to be slower paced, brooding, "darker". Power Electronics would be more frenetic, abrasive.
this was kind of what I was getting at.
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on January 08, 2013, 08:55:08 PM
Simplified:
PE - Whitehouse
Death Industrial - BDN
Which one is Genocide Organ?
The best are firmly in one while teasing the other.
Quote from: Brad on January 10, 2013, 06:28:05 AM
Which one is Genocide Organ?
Native concrete industrial?
yeah, seriously, I don't think so many bands limit themselves into style. Genre names are usually something, what was tagged on bands later on. Especially in question of early bands. This was case when it sounded something different, that talking about Whitehouse merely as "industrial" would have been somehow misleading when at the time industrial was already quite different.
When trying to analyze what exactly makes a genre, the bigger it is, the wider it gets. One should remember that it's not about who belongs specific club, who is "pure", but these terms were only tool of language. That without hearing sample of band, we could talk with terms what mean something.
Lets say we have Genocide Organ in question. There is someone who has never heard it. You can say it combines dark and monumental back-to-basics industrial sounds with force and strength and level of noisiness of power electronics. As result we may get idea that it does have musical characteristics, strong rhythms, yet rotten and distorted sounds and aggressive vocals.
Qualities like this should never limit artists themselves. There is no guidebook that industrial band couldn't suddenly explode into total harsh noise or power electronics band slowly sink into fuzzy drone. Those seeking for "purity" in experimental music, most often are kind of... lame.
The term "death industrial" was coined by Roger Karmanik, to describe his own music, and later on it caught on as some new genre term. If your band's name is Brighter Death Now, and most of your tracks are called Death this or that, of course the music should be called death industrial. It's amusing and confusing that people take this little word-play so seriously.
..
Death Industrial is more slower moving, have a distant, somewhat darker atmosphere.. It's have a more colder, and hidden anger. Power Electronics have more 'in front of' feeling, also more aggressive, facefucking vocals, and it's have more mid-high freq. feedbacks, than bass-only parts - (I think, but it's only my perception).
But another question was not really talked : production wise, what's the different between the two genres? or It's really depends on the artist, and it's vision about the overral sound, or there are some recognizable marks? I mean, the size of the space in the sound stage (I've think about reverb/echo stuff), amount of distortion, mixing/mastering, and similar thinks like this.etc:. ?
I'd always have described the likes of Genocide Organ and Operation Cleansweep as 'power industrial', which I think sums 'em up better.
Was 'power electronics' not a term coined by William Bennett to describe Whitehouse stuff?
Power industrial is about as good as "power drone" and noize.
FYI, this is Death Industrial.
(http://i.imgur.com/uHdbYNB.jpg)
nice topic.
all text below - simply some supervision and and attempt to allocate the main 'tendencies' (and my imho,for sure)
power electronics - several 'shools' or whatever:
"like Whitehouse" - screaming distorted vocal with special annoying noises. Simple "rhythm" and structure in tracks.
For example - WH tracks- mindphaser,pro-sexist,pissfun etc. Some Sutcliff Jugend and Ramleh staff. Main theme -perverts,maniacs and sexual violence.
'harsh power electronics' - this is a harsh noise (pedals,computer,feedback as source etc) but with vocal.
Kinda 'like Whitehouse',but sound (noise) more dense. without any 'rhythm' and 'structure'.
Slogun (let me show you how),Bizzare Uproar etc.
"like Dead Tech" - more structured and classic synth sound. Instead 'Whitehouse school' it has 'something' like 'melody','structure' and 'rhytm'.
More politically (not sexual) oriented. for example - Slave State,Dead Tech. probably Genocide Organ -In Konflikt
the main goal of this 'substyles' - aggression. Agressive sound. Hate and violence.
another subgenres is more "atmospheric" - "death industrial"/"post mortem"/"minimal pe"/'power ambient' etc.
the main goal of this sound - estrangement,"pressure" and 'fear forcing'.
MB - "Symphony for a Genocide". it has not pure agression as WH, but the atmosphere smothers and presses
Another 'tendencies' of 'death industrial' -
"Sound without human". Minimal rhythm pulses. For example - first part of Mauthausen Orchestra - 'Bloodyminded'.
'minimal pe' - recitative or distorted voice with only syntheizer. for example - DDV (A Sound Atlas Of Venereology),etat brut and some Atrax Morgue ('obsession' from closed exit) and many others.
and 'classic' death industrial - slow (!) looped waves of heavy synth - Lille Roger 'For Life' for example or another BDN staff
power ambient - survival unit (our lives in their hands),ex-order(the law of heresy). this is not so agressive,but atmosperic (sure,again).
and another specific pe/noise tendencies:
Galakthorro sound - special analogue pulses,beeps and wheeps (you know). Haus Arafna,Maska Genetic,Herz Juhning.
trance noise - looped waves of noise or samples. Noizeclot (beyond agony),observation clinique,reductio ad absurdum
power electronics - the main idea - agression,force and irritant
death industrial - main idea - 'atmosphere' forcing.
this is my imho and generally it concerns music 80x and began 90x years.
certainly, many early PE artists (LXSS,Deviation Social,RJF,Le Syndicat,MSR,Con-dom,Grim,TGW etc) consciously use 'various receptions' in the music so these designation are rather conditional.
therefore I can't tell that Grunt (for example) plays only 'harsh power electronics' or 'whitehouse pe'.
this is just a tendencies and my imho.
interesting take, I've heard some Brighter Death Now that falls on both the death industrial and/or power electronics side of the equation.
what would one consider Bloodyminded?
I need more stuff that falls in the "power ambient" side of things. Ex.Order and Survival Unit are two of my favorites.
Quote from: Tommy Carlsson on January 11, 2013, 10:56:12 AM
The term "death industrial" was coined by Roger Karmanik, to describe his own music, and later on it caught on as some new genre term. If your band's name is Brighter Death Now, and most of your tracks are called Death this or that, of course the music should be called death industrial. It's amusing and confusing that people take this little word-play so seriously.
I don't think it's confusing. As descrbed above, genres tend to evolve beyond the original sound of its pioneers. But the PE vs DI question is interesting because those are genres that frequently overlap, and if one listens to extensive albums such as SJ's Relentless or modern Prurient, there is enough for room for songs that sound one way or the other (that is, some are pe-ish, others di-ish).
Heavy Metal was initially use to describe the harsh, loud sounds of Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Steppenwolf. Nowadays, the term is used to describe traditional sounding bands in the vein of NWOBHM, Maiden, Accept etc. One could note vast differences listening to early Whitehouse and then Bizarre Uproar, but they're "Power Electronics". I think that's the way it is.