Still excited or bored with it ?
Could you care less about or tired and sick of it ?
Any favourite HNW artists/albums ?
It's ok from time to time for me. Just as any other subgenre. And I'm glad to see that the bubble of HNW has finally exploded and it has just became more or less normal/ordinary style with people who are really interested in doing it and listening to it.
Never enough of HNW brutal blasting!
I become sick and tired of some newcomers with totally wrong view on HNW but classics like Vomir, The Rita and Werewolf Jerusalem are always great!
Also, Gluttoness with his doom approach to HNW is amazing and Vilgoc doing that in best way.
i listen and do it near everyday so i am far to be bored with hnw
favorite is always the same The Rita & Vomir differant approach but both amazing
My favour of noise, i think
Haemorrhaging Fetus, The Rita, Sleep Column, Light Collapse, Doodshoofd etc
There's still good HNW out there, and yes now it's back to very few dedicated people doing it.
I'll throw in A View From Nihil as one of my favorites: very well "composed" and studied material, extremely good ideas and delivery.
I mostly like the stuff that doesn't make it's "HNW" as too big issue. As a lot of stuff that could be filed under such, was and is simply "harsh noise". So, liking HNW is just the same as liking noise in general. When it's good. There is no particular new artists who I think would have contributed much, many old good items still stand strong.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 26, 2013, 09:25:25 AM
I mostly like the stuff that doesn't make it's "HNW" as too big issue. As a lot of stuff that could be filed under such, was and is simply "harsh noise". So, liking HNW is just the same as liking noise in general. When it's good. There is no particular new artists who I think would have contributed much, many old good items still stand strong.
Agreed, there is and has always been a largely unnecessary distinction between what is a "harsh noise" wall and is "harsh noise wall". Conceptually, I can understand some people may wish to differentiate (Vomir as the obvious example of "HNW" as a label being intrinsic to the aesthetic) but the surge in artists popping up in this sub-division has ultimately just blurred the lines anyway.
I also think some artists could do with a little clarification between what is "obsession" and what is "gimmick". The latter masquerading as the former has become an easy way to shoe-horn in any old kooky shit and I think it is that kind of thing that has poisoned the well.
The butt hurt is strong with this one. There's only so much you can do with HNW before its no longer HNW. It's a dead end, much like troniks. I personally prefer dynamic noise where there's something that keeps the listener interested. I probably could only full enjoy HNW if I was really intoxicated. Otherwise it sounds like a pointless excersize in tedium.
Quote from: jesusfaggotchrist on May 28, 2013, 12:01:53 AM
The butt hurt is strong with this one. There's only so much you can do with HNW before its no longer HNW. It's a dead end, much like troniks. I personally prefer dynamic noise where there's something that keeps the listener interested. I probably could only full enjoy HNW if I was really intoxicated. Otherwise it sounds like a pointless excersize in tedium.
Do you have the same opinion about minimal music?
I prefer it as a description rather than a "movement." I found it very irritating to see people make themed walls and sit around on their ass from misinterpreting vomir as instant gratification.
I do like using it as a detachment device from the loud city environment that I live in, besides the classics already mentioned, taskmaster, rusulka and griz+zlor have releases I still enjoy.
Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on May 28, 2013, 12:28:45 AM
Quote from: jesusfaggotchrist on May 28, 2013, 12:01:53 AM
The butt hurt is strong with this one. There's only so much you can do with HNW before its no longer HNW. It's a dead end, much like troniks. I personally prefer dynamic noise where there's something that keeps the listener interested. I probably could only full enjoy HNW if I was really intoxicated. Otherwise it sounds like a pointless excersize in tedium.
Do you have the same opinion about minimal music?
Depends on how you define "minimal"
@jesusfaggotchrist if you don't like/hate HNW, why you post on topic about HNW?
I never post on topic which I don't like. Please spread your frustrations somewhere else.
It's always interesting to see what noise people think about HNW. Also, it's funny because of old noise people don't want to listen some new HNW faces. They support new pe or noise artist but not HNW. Some new HNW artist can be so much better than some old one. For me Gluttoness is better than most Werewolf Jerusalem works.
I forgot, Griz+zlor is amazing! Black Summer box is one of best HNW releases ever!!
Check it: http://caveofthegrizzlor.bandcamp.com/album/black-summer
Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on May 28, 2013, 12:28:45 AM
Quote from: jesusfaggotchrist on May 28, 2013, 12:01:53 AM
The butt hurt is strong with this one. There's only so much you can do with HNW before its no longer HNW. It's a dead end, much like troniks. I personally prefer dynamic noise where there's something that keeps the listener interested. I probably could only full enjoy HNW if I was really intoxicated. Otherwise it sounds like a pointless excersize in tedium.
Do you have the same opinion about minimal music?
And there it is. THE question. For some, the monolith and minimalism is intuitive. For others, it doesn't cue into anything. I can see why that can be frustrating, but that's pretty easily remedied: don't read about it or listen to it. Not that one is superior to the other, but they are indeed worlds apart. Punk, was in part, a response to prog. The busy and cluttered vs. the simple and stripped down. etc.
Can anyone make minimalist music? Yep. Can just anyone make quality minimalist music? Nope. Big revelation that it is the same as every other type of music.
Quote from: Dr Alex on May 23, 2013, 12:36:31 AM
I become sick and tired of some newcomers with totally wrong view on HNW
Just for clarification:
Who would that be & what is the right view?
Also: at the same time you are blaming the "oldschool guys" for their unwillingness to check out new artists?
Funny how HNW-Threads always turn into this pro/contra & black/white line of arguments...
Quote from: Potier on May 28, 2013, 10:13:16 AM
Quote from: Dr Alex on May 23, 2013, 12:36:31 AM
I become sick and tired of some newcomers with totally wrong view on HNW
Just for clarification:
Who would that be & what is the right view?
Also: at the same time you are blaming the "oldschool guys" for their unwillingness to check out new artists?
Funny how HNW-Threads always turn into this pro/contra & black/white line of arguments...
HNW should be brutal and static with brutal themes. Some people doing it with wrong themes or wrong sounds.
I didn't wrote about that. I tried to write that new artists in HNW need more attention.
Quote from: jesusfaggotchrist on May 28, 2013, 01:25:40 AM
Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on May 28, 2013, 12:28:45 AM
Quote from: jesusfaggotchrist on May 28, 2013, 12:01:53 AM
The butt hurt is strong with this one. There's only so much you can do with HNW before its no longer HNW. It's a dead end, much like troniks. I personally prefer dynamic noise where there's something that keeps the listener interested. I probably could only full enjoy HNW if I was really intoxicated. Otherwise it sounds like a pointless excersize in tedium.
Do you have the same opinion about minimal music?
Depends on how you define "minimal"
I mean minimal music like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimal_music
But I suppose that you don't listen this music usually. So, what do you think about ORGANUM, Rolf JULIUS or Thomas KOENER?
I don't like such sub-subgenres as HNW. I guess that such terms are useless. HNW is sub-genre of harsh noise, and harsh noise is sub-genre of industrial noise... but all of them use the same devices and techniques in process of creation... and the main axis is NOISE as an esthetic factor.... I don't understand people who like HARSH NOISE but reject POWER ELECTRONICS or OLD SCHOOL INDUSTRIAL or academic avantgarde of electronic music... If you love NOISE you should respect all genres which are based on NOISE... Of course, you may like/respect some project more than others, but genres?
QuoteSome people doing it with wrong themes or wrong sounds.
I know it's unfashionable around here to accept different people's views on what any given noise subgenre should be, especially if it's a 'newcomers' vs 'tradition' situation, but really; if something is a) Harsh b) Noise and c) a 'Wall' of sound then it seems absolutely fair enough to call it HNW regardless of what's depicted on the tape cover, or how uncool it is that HNW is 'cool' these days, or how good (ha!) a tape it is.
QuoteI'll throw in A View From Nihil as one of my favorites: very well "composed" and studied material, extremely good ideas and delivery.
He is indeed great, his set in Leeds recently was incredible and I'm proud to be on the same bill at the forthcoming London HNW festival.
Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on May 28, 2013, 04:52:30 PM
I don't understand people who like HARSH NOISE genre but reject POWER ELECTRONICS or OLD SCHOOL INDUSTRIAL or academic avantgarde of electronic music... If you love NOISE you should respect all genres which are based on NOISE... Of course, you may like/respect some project more than others, but genres?
THAT!!!!!
Quote from: Potier on May 28, 2013, 10:13:16 AM
Funny how HNW-Threads always turn into this pro/contra & black/white line of arguments...
It happens in other genre discussion too. What qualifies as "power electronics", what is "industrial" - does rock with drum machine or dance music with little edgy distortion qualify etc.
I do agree with Cementimental that if there are qualities of "harsh", "noise" and "wall", then it really is harsh noise wall, although I personally like the idea that "harsh" would also refer other qualities than sound.
It's hard to see if HWN could even have "traditional" vs "modern", when everything about it is kind of
modern and genre is so new it's quite hard to convince about "the good
old days... 5 years ago". hah...
I personally often don't like the close-up line sound. Where you hear small sound source and crackling pedal distortion, but nothing else. Having sense of true amplified space is something what I feel is lacking for vast amounts of HNW projects.
Quote from: Cementimental on May 28, 2013, 05:01:45 PM
I know it's unfashionable around here to accept different people's views on what any given noise subgenre should be, especially if it's a 'newcomers' vs 'tradition' situation, but really; if something is a) Harsh b) Noise and c) a 'Wall' of sound then it seems absolutely fair enough to call it HNW regardless of what's depicted on the tape cover, or how uncool it is that HNW is 'cool' these days, or how good (ha!) a tape it is.
Question is, what we can consider as "wall" in music? Where begins "wall" (and what is "wall" in sonic art? Are there any parameters?), and where "looped/static cacophony" begins? There are very unclear differences, at least for me. I know that we can see differences between VOMIR and Kazumuoto ENDO for example, but, between HIJOKAIDAN and MASONNA are many differences too, but both have labeled as japan noise... Why? Why CABARET VOLTAIRE is labeled as industrial music (using ordinary term), and SPK or NON too, though all of them played different music? We may create more and more names, of course, but is it so important for describing music?
I'm way too old and out of touch to even know much about what HNW signifies. I saw Richard Ramirez doing a show as Werewolf Jerusalem which is possibly supposed to be in the HNW style? Found it a very disappointing and undynamic show although I have enjoyed his recordings over the years and I am probably simply prejudiced in favour of performances which have some theatrics thrown in - never enjoyed seeing anyone fiddling with effects pedals or laptops. I have Japanese noise which would seem to be harsh, a noise and a wall - some live Merzbow and later Masonna and Hijokaidan.
Can anyone give me a precis of what the HNW genre actually is, and how it differs from traditional 'static' long noise pieces?
dr alex, they asked a general question about hnw and i gave an honest answer. not everyone is going to feel the same way and this pretty much public domain, with some moderation. the world doesnt revolve around you.
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on May 28, 2013, 07:11:34 PMCan anyone give me a precis of what the HNW genre actually is, and how it differs from traditional 'static' long noise pieces?
This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf3pgsYIIXEWhy is so important HOW someone make noise? It's important what you hear, right?
Personally I'm not fan of digital made noise but some digital farts sounds good, right?
Propergol do laptop pe/industrial/ambient/whatever-it-is and still sounds great!
Similar discussion was on one Serbian metal board about progressive metal. Progressive metal is about how they play it, not how it sounds like. Fuck it! Fuck progression!
Quote from: Dr Alex on May 28, 2013, 07:32:16 PM
Why is so important HOW someone make noise? It's important what you hear, right?
Completely agree but with live performance I enjoy seeing some theatrics, even if it's just a slideshow or some movement. Really hate watching someone perform noise as if they are recording at home alone. There's an audience there, everything changes.
I like The Rita's noise but I have Grey Wolves-related cassettes dating back to the 1980s that are very similar in sound. It's hardly new.
To label Hijokaidan and Masonna "japan noise" appears accurate: They are noise from japan aren't they? Is there some confusion about any of these facts?
The moment when there is difficulty to give precise mathematically accurate rule, some people say it's "impossible". But it's not different from saying cold or hot water. Its not different from saying black or white. Even if there are things between, we acknowledge the difference of black and white and hot and cold. Some grey area between is irrelevant, if HARSH NOISE WALL basically has been often applied only to THE most static, THE most harsh (in context of utmost distortion of original sound signal, resulting mere distortion?). What sets apart "harsh noise wall" from traditional static long noise pieces, would appear to be most of all intent? Intent to focus only on this very minimal approach, where compositional structure may be almost non-existent - or perhaps more accurately to say: Happens only on level of microscopic distortion? If it's all sorts of throwing objects, screaming, guitars, drums, vivid electronics, it appears to be distance quite far from the grey solid brick wall.
Usual examples:
The Rita
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvQoTfgA8Fo
The Rita / Werewolf Jerusalem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_ftL4DcdNg
Vomir
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLzEgrHKxNM
etc.
However, often project like Werewolf Jerusalem uses almost Chop Shop like quit cuts from one sound to another. Distracting flow of steady rumbling & crackling noise. And celebrated projects like Cherry Point and perhaps several releases of The Rita too, are more like normal quite dynamic harsh noise with plenty of modulation of drastic moves within the noise piece. Perhaps one should purchase AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE and read the article by The Rita related to this matter. And many of noise makers where doing stuff before term "HNW" was established.
When we talk of "modernism", it's most standard proceedings are: Manifest like approach taken for new expression, what seeks new purity, new restricted form. (Like purification of noise to even more monochrome and direct form.)
But most often they didn't born out of absolute nothing and it soon blends into everything else. It could be even up to debate whether the "MILITANT WALLS" merely had its sudden peak in 2005-2006 and was almost instantly watered down simply by calling just about anything HNW, despite it would be just noise.
What would be most militant output to summarize the genre? "Total Slitting Of Throats" CD? Perhaps! At the same time, very few involved projects are "HNW" in general. It was vision of The Rita where he went further from standard noise piece. If something like that CD and Vomir sets the standard for THE harsh noise wall, then it's pretty easy to see what remains merely good solid noise pieces? To check out the standard, CD's appear to be sold at discogs for less than 3 euro... HongKongGoolagong can get the reference of utmost "HNW" by listening for example Whitehouse "movement" tracks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9AXHfjGZ1Y
Oh no! Vomir before Vomir, haha!
(old versions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RthIrdP24yA Movement 1994.. I guess Movement 1982 is not in youtube? Step by step you hear growing level of "wall". Step by step, finally in utmost static purity. Take that example and transform it to developing "genre"? Movement 1982 was basically just track on great album. Movement 1994 stood out strongly in its minimalism, yet was had still plenty of compositional elements, 2001 = total brick wall of distort mayhem with everything stripped away)
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 28, 2013, 08:20:06 PM
To label Hijokaidan and Masonna "japan noise" appears accurate: They are noise from japan aren't they? Is there some confusion about any of these facts?
I thought that every genre in music or art is based on esthetical factors, not where from something comes. Do we create new genres as American, Finnish or German noise? Maybe "japanese noise" is fake because every noise industrial has the same roots, sources, methods, techniques and devices? Frankly speaking, I don't use term "japanese noise" too because this term is very artificial, which was created only to name all artists from Japan, rejecting important differences in esthetical factors.
Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on May 28, 2013, 09:08:33 PM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 28, 2013, 08:20:06 PM
To label Hijokaidan and Masonna "japan noise" appears accurate: They are noise from japan aren't they? Is there some confusion about any of these facts?
I thought that every genre in music or art is based on esthetical factors, not where from something comes. Do we create new genres as American, Finnish or German noise? Maybe "japanese noise" is fake because every noise industrial has the same roots, sources, methods, techniques and devices? Frankly speaking, I don't use term "japanese noise" too because this term is very artificial, which was created only to name all artists from Japan, rejecting important differences in esthetical factors.
It's nothing new. Krautrock. Americana. Brit pop. San Francisco psychedelia. Mountain folk or Appalachian folk. Swedish death metal. Regions do sometimes create a unique, identifiable sound or lyric style.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on May 28, 2013, 09:45:54 PM
It's nothing new. Krautrock. Americana. Brit pop. San Francisco psychedelia. Mountain folk or Appalachian folk. Swedish death metal. Regions do sometimes create a unique, identifiable sound or lyric style.
As you perfectly know, in krautrock were some groups that came from Belgium, Switzerland, Denmark, Austria too... But ok, I know many other country-named "genres". I am conscious that is possible and ordinary used, even in Poland are something like: polo-rock (polish version of typical rock music), disco polo (polisj version of disco music), polish punk... So?
@Mikko nobody said that HNW is something new. Wall noise can be heard before "HNW" mark. Nobody wrote that Vomir or The Rita is inventors of noise.
I don't know why people have problem with HNW as description for some noise? I like when I know what can I except from release.
I can't put term "harsh noise" on Vomir and Sickness or Emil Beaulieau and Dead Body Love. It's not the same. I prefer closer description of sound. But yes, all that is noise!
Are we doing this again?
HNW is just the definition for a quite specific sub-genre of harsh noise. I think pretty much all people involved are aware that the same kinds of sound were already common in 90s and 80s noise/p.e., early electronic music and who knows what else.
This doesn't change the fact that Harsh Noise Wall is a simple definition for an even simpler concept.
Also, many of the precursors (Mauthausen Orchestra, Whitehouse's "Movements", Dead Body Love etc etc) are openly cited and admired by HNW acts.
Everybody interprets it in their own way of course, and that's perfectly fine.
Quote from: Dr Alex on May 29, 2013, 02:12:16 AMI don't know why people have problem with HNW as description for some noise?
I don't think it is the description. It's the attention it receives; always at the forefront. I can relate. I feel the same way when holidays are everywhere I turn...or sporting events...or really anything that rewards me with nothing and yet is always within eyesight. It's ridiculous and irrational, but it is. I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't have a touchstone or two. Doesn't mean it isn't frustrating for everyone else either, though.
The only thing sticking with me these days is that Vast Glory self-titled tape. Unlike the few other HNW releases I have heard, that tape makes me feel rather nervous and on edge throughout its entire duration. I suppose if Mo*Te's Life in a Peaceful World can be considered HNW proper then I can also praise it in this thread.
i once said that metal is the best source for noise but white noise is even better
Quote from: Dr Alex on May 29, 2013, 02:12:16 AM
@Mikko nobody said that HNW is something new. Wall noise can be heard before "HNW" mark. Nobody wrote that Vomir or The Rita is inventors of noise.
It's new only in way as I described. As said, things most often exist before some sort of manifest of purification happens, which may result sort of small movement or trend. You know, it's not like people did not draw geometric forms before Suprematism - but to reject EVERYTHING ELSE, but few basic geometric forms, was new. That has similarity to HNW. It refines existing into new level of purity and seeks to operate within such limited range.
What comes to describing bands or some sort of art by its geographic location, it merely shows that vast majority of people are not interested only in 100% measurable matters, but follow culture and tradition and human emotions as well. If you put things like Suomi Rock (Finn rock) and Deutsche Rock next to eachother, I'm sure there is some sort of difference. Polish rock as well. We may analyze it with academic level, yet we may as well acknowledge effect of cultural climate and human element. And this brings us to situation where "Finnish noise" - as little as it tells about exact musical details - it tells about many other things. I think this humane element simply distracts "HNW" remaining "pure".
I recall when I wrote some harshly critical about "HNW" in old Noisefanatics from and Emil Beaulieau just commented "...and this comes from guy who celebrates "special interests"! " .. hah! And point understood instantly. If just about every field of art and life is dissected further, so we know the movements, eras and currents in painting or photography.. For someone it will be just "image taken with camera" or "some clots of paint on canvas", but the people really interested in matter need more than just conclude
"it's all noise, not good or bad, just listen or not". I'm not critical to "HWN" at its best. I'm critical to bandwagon jumpers who are not able to contribute something worthy of listening and personal distaste towards "postmodernity" in genre.
Quote from: tisbor on May 29, 2013, 03:20:01 AMAre we doing this again?
Just be thankful jliat doesn't post here :)
I mostly agree with Mikko, especially with
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 29, 2013, 09:21:44 AM
I'm critical to bandwagon jumpers who are not able to contribute something worthy of listening and personal distaste towards "postmodernity" in genre.
I respect that someone have own thoughts about HNW but this small sub genre of noise no need to be thorn in the eye.
[fuck me! I need better English to explain some things...]
Quote from: Cementimental on May 29, 2013, 11:18:09 AM
Just be thankful jliat doesn't post here :)
ahahahahahahaha YES!
I am not a fan, first tape/noise related thing I bought was a swampland (and since I hear so many 'Great' things about this label, I'm sure that didn't help either) cassette by the Rita/lapdancer and listened many times but it just never really did it for me. I think it actually kinda stopped me from getting into noise sooner. I've since bought other Rita releases but I've never been moved by them,
also heard rameriez but I think that's just crap.
That being said I really enjoy SE, Golden Serenades, etc but I wouldn't call any of
it HNW (even though the terms been tossed around in discussions involving those acts). I feel HNW is Sam's thing and though it's attracted a fair amount of fanaticism/pseudo-intellectual interest. It's also opened the door for a lot of hanger ons producing shotty work (maybe because people assume its easy, not sure why) or people producing overly conceptual/intellectual while kinda leaving the sound behind altogether. If I see HNW in the description it pretty much means I'm not buying.
For me a lot of what I see described as 'hnw', especially 'good' hnw, turns out to be pretty much just what I always thought 'harsh noise' was supposed to sound like, and a lot of people's 'harsh noise' seems more like just 'noise', or some kind of harsh music with recognisable sounds, loops etc. Anyway, I do like the anti-quality/anonymous/multiplicity of homemade ltd who-cares hnw tapes personally so it doesn't bother me that it's fashionable or overplayed but nor would I consider myself a purist or maniac of the genre.
I actually recorded some kind of non-harsh wall stuf with a fairly high-concept / arbitrary rules for myself some years back before hnw was a thing, never got round to releasing them. Might do once walls are uncool again haha.
By the way if anyone's interested theres a (mostly) HNW all day festival coming up soon in London. I'm playing and will actually be doing a rare (my idea of) HNW set - https://www.facebook.com/events/159569900878873
I personally often don't like the close-up line sound. Where you hear small sound source and crackling pedal distortion, but nothing else. Having sense of true amplified space is something what I feel is lacking for vast amounts of HNW projects.
[/quote]
TRUE
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 29, 2013, 09:21:44 AM
I'm critical to bandwagon jumpers who are not able to contribute something worthy of listening and personal distaste towards "postmodernity" in genre.
Mikko, do you want to tell us that you know all "bandwagon jumpers" (with unknown, personally or not, for you names) after listening their releases? Please, let me know how you are able to do it :)?
"Bandwagon effect refers to people doing certain things because other people are doing them, regardless of their own beliefs, which they may ignore or override." In case of HNW - or most of music styles - it's very clear that there are trends of microtrends. People start projects because other people are doing them. And these projects come and go, doing few releases here and there, and then gone. I dare to say, that substance what one can hear from THE HATERS (for example), simply is far more than output of guy who had quick passing "idea" of doing HNW before next interesting thing comes.
Many sonic matters would be up to personal tastes and even mediocre harsh blast may be satisfying for noise addicts. It would be matter of what we appreciate in noise. When The Rita or Vomir came, I feel they stood out with their vision. The next guy doing the same is like next guy painting black square and thinking he is so clever. Without using it as fuel for inspiration, just replicate.
I don't think on needs to approach noise merely by "sound". We become aware of many other factors too.
Lets say, the most traditional social cycle theory. Even if sound of some project is not utterly bad, what is its value if it offers 100% copy of other peoples artistic vision?
Can I tell all "bandwagon jumpers" by simply listening? You know, distinct that THIS is The Rita and THAT is someone else trying to sound like him? Of course not and I certainly won't deny factor of positive influence which results that some of the later works is better than previous. But that's part of what I consider bad quality of bandwagon jumpers - from my perspective. I would appreciate if someone does harsh noise wall that sounds like them. If they ask "how's that possible, I'll just end up sounding like everybody" - then you probably know that he's not the guy that stands out from the mass or is able to do more than follow already existing ideas of other people. And he will do it next with other style, other project, when new trend sucks him in.
When internal possibilities of art run out of fuel, it dies of symptoms of old age like any organism.
As I'm noise addict of some sort, I accept quite high level of influence & cumulating ideas, and appreciate projects that can build something from very basic traditional elements. They all don't need to be revolutionary or utterly different.
Quote from: Otomo_Hava on May 22, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Any favourite HNW artists/albums ?
I enjoy a bit of HNW every now & then.
Been listening to The Rita "Retrospective" audio-dvd lately (especially "Living dead girl"), and "Renonce" by Vomir.
Reading through threads always gets me thinking. While I personally prefer noise / walls that change texture and dynamics and have a sort of flow, does that discredit them from being HNW? While I agree that I'm happy the HNW crowd is waning, it seems most would consider what I do distinctly not HNW because of the ebb and flow of things. (My harsher noise works of course. I have a few in the works that are distinctly less harsh.) I've done a few more static pieces but I always feel like there's less attaching me to it.
And of course if the brutal imagery is part of the aesthetic, then I'm definitely not a purveyor of HNW. I don't think noise needs the gore, I just think it's so ingrained that no one questions it.
I've been listening to Vomir's Living Dead Noise Box lately at night when the babies are asleep and I find his approach, as I've always found it, too static. It can drown out the day behind it, but rarely swirls around my head and keeps me. I'm not listening to this shit to soothe my nerves or anything, but still. Funnily enough though, I dig Ritual Stance's work quite a bit. And of course Werewolf Jerusalem and The Rita and junk too. So who knows. Vomir might just be too punishing.
HNW is Harsh Noise ...... with or without any fucking imagery you can think about
Quote from: Dr Alex on May 28, 2013, 12:27:58 PM
HNW should be brutal and static with brutal themes. Some people doing it with wrong themes or wrong sounds.
If that was the case, some stuff by The Rita and most by Vomir wouldn't qualify as HNW.
HNW is the first true (noise) product of the internet/wiki age. Most (all) others (and their many and varied descriptors) came online before most of us were online.
It is known as in Tao Te Ching:
The foolish student hears of the Tao and laughs aloud.
If there were no laughter, the Tao would not be what it is.
I always apply it to my manner of making noise.
When I have to start to manufacture my walls, my friends laughed at me, the salesmen in the specialized stores in musical equipment laughed at me...
we should always be respectful incomprehension, because it is it which proves to us that we are right to persevere.
This is the TAO - This the WAY
Quote from: nahàsh atrym on June 27, 2013, 08:34:16 PM
When I have to start to manufacture my walls, my friends laughed at me, the salesmen in the specialized stores in musical equipment laughed at me...
"When I was young, I told my family and everyone I knew that I wanted to be a comedian, and they laughed at me. Well they're not laughing now!" - late UK comedian Bob Monkhouse.
Tao Te Ching is a great great book full of fun, mischief, mystery and compassion.
Quote from: nahàsh atrym on June 27, 2013, 08:34:16 PMwe should always be respectful incomprehension, because it is it which proves to us that we are right to persevere.
No. Because if people stop laughing and start listening you'll then think you're wrong. If HNW is your thing, do it whether people laugh or not.
IDX1274 – Condensed Milk (2005)
GX Jupitter-Larsen/IDX1274 (2005)
IDX1274 - Deluxe Rehearsal Noise Box (2004)
The first time I heard Vomir, I thought of Condensed Milk and Phroq's Static Walls.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on June 28, 2013, 02:33:43 AM
Quote from: nahàsh atrym on June 27, 2013, 08:34:16 PMwe should always be respectful incomprehension, because it is it which proves to us that we are right to persevere.
No. Because if people stop laughing and start listening you'll then think you're wrong. If HNW is your thing, do it whether people laugh or not.
What I wanted to say it is that it is necessary to persevere though the others think about it.
But it is difficult for me to correctly express my opinion in a language that I do not control
good wall of noise = good wall of noise imho. , whether it's called HNW or not , I really don't care.
some faves would include Vomir,Sodadosa,Nascitari,Bad Algorithm,Light Collapse but i like many others...
i prefer the pedalbased analog stuff but a good noise is a good noise imho. so sometimes i find myself
listening to and liking other stuff too , Noise Jihad and Inshallah 88 come to mind...
HNW is noise of course, if it's good is good but there is a difference in the sense that with a long static slab of noise the game as far as I'm concerned is to get lost in the textures until I'm not sure wether the cracks or micro-variations I perceive in the wall are real (because the sound source shifted for a millisecond for example) or if it's in my mind, numb by the continuous harsh assault.
I don't think HNW has to be 100% brutal in sound but there are some limits, it must be extreme in sound enough to perceive what I call 'cracks' in the wall, not mere oscillation in a wave form, otherwise it's.. a drone maybe ?
Quote from: African Audio on November 22, 2013, 05:26:40 AM
to get lost in the textures until I'm not sure wether the cracks or micro-variations I perceive in the wall are real (because the sound source shifted for a millisecond for example) or if it's in my mind, numb by the continuous harsh assault.
I feel the same, except I think the mind may be over-active rather than numb. We may be searching too diligently for those variations, which may or may not actually be appearing.
Quote from: dmkerr on November 25, 2013, 05:39:59 PM
Quote from: African Audio on November 22, 2013, 05:26:40 AM
to get lost in the textures until I'm not sure wether the cracks or micro-variations I perceive in the wall are real (because the sound source shifted for a millisecond for example) or if it's in my mind, numb by the continuous harsh assault.
I feel the same, except I think the mind may be over-active rather than numb. We may be searching too diligently for those variations, which may or may not actually be appearing.
Hmm is it over-active or numb ? Perhaps over-active in the "interpretation" of the sound and numb to all the rest.. Or perhaps I'm saying "numb" because I'm influenced by the Vomir esthetic of claustration and nihilism..
On a related note, I'm not really into "changing / moving" walls, except when it's done by Richard Ramirez, maybe because it's more segments of walls next to each other than really moving per se.
The exception would be Black Air "Paris" on Urashima. Fantastic SHIFTING texture there...
phroq namedropped--- yeah!!
Back in 80's in high school we used to have these juvenile discussions about synth pop vs. so called 'real' music. The fans of guitar music called synth pop "press play and go get some coffee" -music.
Whenever I listen to some of the most boring and static HNW, those discussions return to my mind.
This is the harshest thing I've ever heard:
Passion Lumberjack - The Smell Of Wood And Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lVXLCw5m4M
If this isn't a completely redundant reply.
I dunno I feel like the HNW thing is almost like the whole drone trend of a few years ago with some elements of Power Violence tacked on. I've noticed in some major metro areas that I frequent I recognize faces from the hardcore punk scene. I guess some folks are clustering around HN or HNW as the new underground.
I find it really funny to see people fist pumping and getting really aggro at a live performance.
'sick wall bro!'.
Quote from: calaverasgrande on July 19, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
I find it really funny to see people fist pumping and getting really aggro at a live performance.
'sick wall bro!'.
Worse than fist pumping is the chode hippy that feels the need to be doing all these psychedelic slow motion movements like they're passing through some magical ether.
Also I'm pretty sure when I say 'wickedsick' I'm being ironic.
for me it's a specific sub-genre i can say, but it's still fresh
and from artists its The Rita for "Oksana Shorik" and "Preparing For Pointe" and of course Vomir for nylon fetish casettes (still looking for them)
Quote from: Peterson on July 19, 2016, 11:07:02 PM
Fist-pumping is just like any other physical manifestation of being moved by sound. Regarding fist-pumping and HNW, I've seen videos of The Rita, Sewer Electrion/Treriksroset, and others gesturing with a closed fist in especially dynamic sections. Regardless of what you want to think, HN/HNW is still going to strike many as kick-ass, aggressive, and brutal. You see tons of closed fists in the air in videos of Slogun performances. Why is this unacceptable in pure noise?
Not 'unacceptable' but it just seems like the noise scene in general has gotten a bit less avant and started to be a little more jock.
I've seen Consumer Electronics many times. All of them were fucking shit except once. On this one occasion he was on fire and a few of us went for it. Pushing, shoving, jumping up and down, a bit of wresting, testosterone and fun in the friendliest of ways. Probably someone also fist pumped at least once. No one who didn't want to was forced to take part as we kept our little chaos pit at the front. The complaints on the Whitehouse forum afterwards were plentiful. The chin strokers were not amused.
It's a good question, Peterson. Add to that how the noise weenies who moan on forums about macho posturing seem unable to distinguish between the bullies at school and the freaks who could fend for themselves enough to not be fucked with by the bullies like the weenies were. And some of us freaks sometimes also defended the defenceless little weenies by kicking a bullies ass. How soon people forget.
What's the cure? More fist pumping in noise!
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on July 20, 2016, 09:26:21 PM
The chin strokers
Would be a pretty good name for a band.
What you want to do at a show is your own decision, and however this does more applies to punk and metal shows as there are not that many noise things around, I've seen great shows with the reception only lame crowds of pale chicken without emotion or power whatsoever. Can you please be a bit more enthusiastic. What the fuck. I don´t get it.
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on July 20, 2016, 09:26:21 PMMore fist pumping in noise!
Quoted for truth, as they say.
Sometimes, some things just make you want to pump your fucking fist!
Quote from: Peterson on July 20, 2016, 08:44:32 PM
No offense, but especially in conjunction with extreme music, I often wonder if the people concerned about things becoming "jockish" are the ones who got beat up by jocks in high school, or couldn't handle getting an elbow in the mosh pit.
Back when I used to go to hardcore shows I was kind of a big asshole. Not on purpose, but in hindsight. I was a drunk 230lb guy who would just do all kinds of lame stuff 'in the pit'. As far as getting beat up in school. I was one of those bad kids that hung out in the smoking section. We beat up other people, they didn't beat us up.
I just resent when any scene is co-opted or infiltrated by normies. And I don't like jocks in general.
OTOH I've been to too many 'extreme music' performances where the audience consisted of one dozen people who were not in any of the acts that night. So maybe I shouldn't be so picky.
you can react like you want at a live show it fucking personal but i prefer just to stand and listen than do near fucking paindance shit lol
I mean where any of you guys around for the whole Power Violence thing?
I still fail to see what connects Phobia, Man is the Bastard and Capitalist Casualties. But there were a few bands of that scene I did kind of like, and for whatever reason I ended up doing sound for a lot of PV shows.
But man that stupid kung fu dance thing? WTF. I remember the first time I was at some show at Danville Grange and I see a bunch of people doing that. I was like, okay, that is something new.
of course that whole scene was about aggro.
Nice discussion about harsh noise wall.
Make Noise Wall
strong black coffee wall.
(cream and sugar are for pussies go drink tea instead)
Someone should do an hour long cover of You Suffer by Napalm Death as a goof (there's a lot of goofy harsh noise wall these days)
Non-ironically, non jokingly asking, has anyone ever mic'd up a shop vac sucking up a bunch of plaster or nails as a HNW recording? Because that shit sounds harsh as fuck man, I just bought a 6G Rigid from Home Depot (on sale) and man the sounds this fuckin' thing makes are harsher than a lot of bleak as fuck HNW I hear coming out of a DOD Death Metal.
Also these people chilling and drinking beer in Vomir garbage bag masks is tight as fuck. Maybe it's not the reaction one would want to a HNW but I can't help but think this is fuckin' bananas....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3zeYV4oN2A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3zeYV4oN2A)
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on June 28, 2013, 02:00:14 AM
Quote from: nahàsh atrym on June 27, 2013, 08:34:16 PM
When I have to start to manufacture my walls, my friends laughed at me, the salesmen in the specialized stores in musical equipment laughed at me...
"When I was young, I told my family and everyone I knew that I wanted to be a comedian, and they laughed at me. Well they're not laughing now!" - late UK comedian Bob Monkhouse.
Tao Te Ching is a great great book full of fun, mischief, mystery and compassion.
nothing to add, just like that bob monkhouse quote!
Quote from: Deadpriest on March 18, 2017, 10:23:57 PM
Someone should do an hour long cover of You Suffer by Napalm Death as a goof (there's a lot of goofy harsh noise wall these days)
Not HNW, but https://www.discogs.com/Kylie-Minoise-You-Suffer/release/1051948
Quote from: P A N I C on March 29, 2017, 10:22:17 PM
Quote from: Deadpriest on March 18, 2017, 10:23:57 PM
Someone should do an hour long cover of You Suffer by Napalm Death as a goof (there's a lot of goofy harsh noise wall these days)
Not HNW, but https://www.discogs.com/Kylie-Minoise-You-Suffer/release/1051948
FUCK
Was reading HNW article from Fight Your Own War book, and like always, I'm at the same time confirming that vast majority of stuff is not for me, I always feel that there IS some HWN what will appeal to my taste.
Although being familiar with the stupidity of trivial & "light" subject matter of contemporary HWN, it's still such a annoying moment to read about existence of harry potter, pokemon or whatever my little pony themed noise walls.
If talking about good recent walls, I'm pretty sure TASKMASTER / WINCE split tape qualifies well. WCN release from recent times. Not only it is HWN, but it is good in what it is. Texture, force, brutality, saturation, yet at the same time stability of minimalism. You just need to sink in, and start to observe textures. No dramatic changes or cuts appear.
Good in this tape is that it does qualify as both, the real noise and hnw. One doesn't need some conceptual BS justify flat hissing, but wheter looking for static stability or energy, both are present. Compared to bunch of other HNW items I lately listened, this easily crushes everything.
I hate the inanity in HNW too (it's completely incompatible with how I listen to it and completely cheapens it) I just came up with that thought and wanted to share.
have enjoyed recent discs by the Rita, who's releases whilst have a sound source/concept, nevertheless engage sonically (the recent throat lures being an exception).
despite limited changes their sounds are dynamic and invoke energy rather than stasis.
other releases bought and enjoyed are the last couple of creation through destruction tapesas well as stow stuff.
Quote from: david lloyd jones on March 30, 2017, 03:33:27 PM
other releases bought and enjoyed are the last couple of creation through destruction tapesas well as stow stuff.
Thanx, man! But Creation Through Destruction is not HNW and don't have anything with it. Anyway, glad you like it. ;)
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 30, 2017, 01:06:05 PM
Was reading HNW article from Fight Your Own War book, and like always, I'm at the same time confirming that vast majority of stuff is not for me, I always feel that there IS some HWN what will appeal to my taste.
Although being familiar with the stupidity of trivial & "light" subject matter of contemporary HWN, it's still such a annoying moment to read about existence of harry potter, pokemon or whatever my little pony themed noise walls.
If talking about good recent walls, I'm pretty sure TASKMASTER / WINCE split tape qualifies well. WCN release from recent times. Not only it is HWN, but it is good in what it is. Texture, force, brutality, saturation, yet at the same time stability of minimalism. You just need to sink in, and start to observe textures. No dramatic changes or cuts appear.
Good in this tape is that it does qualify as both, the real noise and hnw. One doesn't need some conceptual BS justify flat hissing, but wheter looking for static stability or energy, both are present. Compared to bunch of other HNW items I lately listened, this easily crushes everything.
Taskmaster always delivers. 100% back this post.
Nick is cool :)