What's a man to do when he feels that he's had all he can take of Harsh Noise? I read, with some interest, Mikko's post about the dearth of HN these days, and his words in the last SI about modern HN. Am I just part of a modern trend away from Harsh Noise? Has it gone as far as it can? Am I wimping out?
Right now, I've purged my collection of extraneous HN and was slightly surprised as to what I wanted to get rid of (Government Alpha, for one). What's remained is pretty much, with a few exceptions, the same names one usually refers to. I'm more than happy with that - when you've got "Box Is Stupid" you really have to ask if you need anything more. Harsh Noise has always been about the glut, getting as much as one physically can, so it's perhaps not surprising that one does get too much. More recent examples I've heard have just left me cold - heard it before, heard it better, big whoopee. Am I jaded, or is it just that there's only so many versions of piles of feedback, crunch and crash that one really needs to listen to?
Harsh Noise, baby - is it me or is it you?
This question could be applied to anything. Of course on surface level "harsh noise" may be limited genre, but how less limited than rock with it's guitar bass and drums and variations of chords and tempos... Or modern classical music with it's stubborn restrictions to "normal instruments" or "normal recording technique". etc.?
I guess I said most what I have to say about variation and vast diversity within stuff that still falls into "harsh noise"... I would put my bets on persons taste. If one looks for other things than what harsh noise offers, then it's time to look elsewhere. I have very stable taste of music and everything I ever listened or was excited - I still am. There are years when something dominates over other styles, but always comes return.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 18, 2013, 06:48:35 PM
I guess I said most what I have to say about variation and vast diversity within stuff that still falls into "harsh noise"... I would put my bets on persons taste. If one looks for other things than what harsh noise offers, then it's time to look elsewhere. I have very stable taste of music and everything I ever listened or was excited - I still am. There are years when something dominates over other styles, but always comes return.
I have similar thoughts. And, after over 20 years permanent listening of various noise/industrial works, I have similar "burning out" sometimes... Maybe not "burning out" exactly, but rather... something like anticlimax ... This anticlimax is concerned either old or new generations of noise music projects nowadays. New generations, because most of them don't want to explore more and more noise music and topics. They don't want or aren't able to find a sense of wonder... Death, perversion, sexual violence, evil, all ugliness are and should be considered as something more than shock tactics or primitive purification. Old "stars" practise the easy way, only for treatment their inferiority complexes, airs and graces, not beholding that they liken self to a system of traditional culture. Which system was main aim of their artistic (cultural) rebellion.
For myself, I attribute this kind of thing to moodiness. There can be years in-between moods for tonality, sounds, styles, etc. It would be particularly difficult if I approached all music with the same needs and desires. There would be a lot of time when I wasn't listening to anything due to this moodiness. Luckily, that isn't the case, so it is more that I hop from one mood to the next to the next as I seek out other nutrients; but I eventually need them all and have to come back to X, Y, Z. I can honestly say I've never burnt out on any type of music. Maybe that is stability or consistency. I'm not sure. I have a hunch it has a lot to do with the times, then and now. Some would mis-attribute that to the ease of access to music through file sharing and binging, but that is merely a symptom. I think it has a lot more to do with so few things be a constant. My grandparents had the same house decorations and interior design for 60 years, and now I know people who change everything in their homes every 12-18 months. Not only has our attention span dwindled, but the ravenous appetite for newness has also risen to overwhelming levels.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 18, 2013, 06:48:35 PM
This question could be applied to anything. Of course on surface level "harsh noise" may be limited genre, but how less limited than rock with it's guitar bass and drums and variations of chords and tempos... Or modern classical music with it's stubborn restrictions to "normal instruments" or "normal recording technique". etc.?
Definitely agree here. I think because when one first hears a full on noise piece, it is so radical compared to most things the listener will have probably heard before, that no matter how long some listen to the genre, they expect it to remain stark and unusual to them when inevitably it won't, so they can get frustrated and bored with it more so than they would when listening to say, punk, which although just as conventional, isn't usually expected by the listener to be anything more than what it is. I think the degree of variety in most genres isn't that broad when compared to each other, by this I do not mean all things in their genre sound the same, rather that most/all categories of music have a similar degree of multifariousness within, this goes for harsh noise too. Which I don't see as a bad thing, there is a place for the refiners as well as the innovators. I am not saying this is the case for the original poster, but I definitely think it's a common reason why many do grow bored with noise and other "experimental" sounds.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on August 18, 2013, 09:56:39 PM
For myself, I attribute this kind of thing to moodiness.
This is probably right. What I do is glut for years on something, then purge the excess. While I'm just not into listening to a lot of Harsh Noise right now, I'm not going to go back on "the essentials" that I've accumulated, knowing that I'll want them in years to come. But it has felt great to get rid of a lot of excess material that I know I don't need, and that's a lot to do with it too - getting rid of extraneous, unnecessary crap.
Which relates to Rafal's point about newer Noise artists. Enthusiastic intentions don't do much for a jaded old fart like myself. I just can't get any vicarious thrill out of any new Noise release announcement, regardless of who it's by (I give a big fucking whoopee to that Rita/Prurient 7", and I don't care how "good" it's supposed to be, I'm sure it's the best thing since the last best thing). I've just reached a point were enough is enough. I'll stick with the classics, those being my personal classics - when I'm in the mood to listen to Harsh Noise again.
Half Aborted's point about first hearing a Noise piece is valid, too, but my initial exposure to HN has been over a decade ago and there's no going back to that first thrill. That's not what I want or look for in Noise. What it is, I can't quite say in words, and am not really interested in trying to express, but it's to do with having listened for years and knowing what I want and don't want. And what I don't want is some young fart going through the motions. Relax - I'm not saying they shouldn't, and that no one else shouldn't enjoy it. I'm just saying I'm past it. It seems to me that if there's no new Harsh Noise anymore, that would not be a bad thing.
To make things clearer, a lot of my feelings also relate to the ridiculous amount of releases, of all kinds, from swish triple album re-issues of much vaunted releases to the latest tape from the latest label. The enthusiasm for music sadly translates into an enthusiasm for buying things and I'm a bit sick of that. Not just the spending money but having shelves of stuff that I know I'll only listen to once or twice. That's just being stupid. The same applies to files of mp3/flak/wave files - I'm culling them too, too easy. I don't think a love of music of any kind has to translate to a get everything at all cost mentality - loving the music you listen to at the time requires a bit more devotion and attention than that. In fact, I would argue the distinction between love and lust - wanting more or wanting quality? It's something that's been on my mind a great deal lately, and it translates into how I dig and consume music, specifically Noise and similar genres.
But, indeed, my lust affair with Harsh Noise is coming to an end and I find I'm left with simple love. Zeno's right, I'll come back to it again. Just not now, and in the meantime, it's a good opportunity to do some housekeeping, not only physically but internally. I should also add - I think there is a distinction between the desire for novelty and wanting to find other potential interests. One's desire for exploration is not a bad thing.
I just moved on to martial industrial and dark ambient. Solved the problem.
In case Andrew mentions that he gets back to "the essentials", and I certainly think that this is what should be done. On recent listening there's been stuff like Merzbow "antimonument", "Batz-tou-tai.." vinyl, "ecobondage". Returned to those mostly to show one friend who always thought "merzbow is crap", and I felt like showing why one could reconsider that opinion, hehe.. And he did.
To re-listen those albums certainly can be much more rewarding than hunt down every new noise tape out there you will just listen once. However, I do also believe in
movement, where things go forward or cycle repeats itself with minor changes. But is still in movement.
Quote from: SILVUM on August 19, 2013, 09:28:57 AM
I used to worry about things I was missing out on, and am now fine knowing the things I care for...
Exactly... I think it is necessary to set boundaries of some sort. I guess this process in collecting or curating is essential. Even if not being able to rationalize (as if it was necessary..), I think most have gut feeling of what and why they want to focus on something. Like why you collect all scandinavian stuff, but couldn't care less for... XXX (insert some other region). Or focus on Japanese noise but turn blind eye to everything else. Or worship German heavy electronics of 90's, but ignore the rest. I don't think it's really competition of how huge amounts of material one can cumulate. Knowing what one likes is far more interesting.
I have personally felt that to be able to really FIND masterpieces, one needs to go through plenty of so-so and rubbish. The process itself is (to me) necessary, although I do appreciate the hints and recommendations of those who know what they're talking about.
Yesterday I saw a really great telecast about Henri Cartier-Bresson on PLANETE+. He said something very important: "I don't stop. The biggest pleasure in my life is walking, but I search nothing for". It fits perfectly to artists and l listeners/viewers as well.
Perhaps, but this also includes strong possibility to transform into mindless consumerism.
Meaning, that one has the ultimate desire to just run through entire life, from thing to another, without possibility to REALLY belong, be attached or truly indulge into something. Too busy to consume or experience, that no time to even really experience anything.
In that context, it may be sometimes funny to hear that one has been "stuck in past", that it's all just nostalgia etc. While I'm quite sure that certain periods in (sub/counter)culture have been so powerful that one has still not fully digested the spirit. You know, turn or 80's/90's Japanese noise? It appears like lifetime long treasure to observe. 80s power electronics/post-mortem. This vast field can be enough to occupy your free time for decades further than it really lasted. I have narrowed down passions what may not be defended by any rational thought. I think there is that "collecting" topic somewhere in this forum. I mentioned few of things what I specialize / focus on, despite overall being hungry for wide variety of material.
Getting rid of the extraneous releases is essential in keeping a healthy relation to music. So a good start. A full-packed cd with HN in 500x is not my thing, I get sleepy (moody) just thinking about it. So take a break and then go back to small doses (tapes, 7", 10", one side of an LP) an really going in to that/does tracks?
My advice: amount and format go hand in hand in much higher degree when it comes to HN then ambient/p.e/industrial(etc.).
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 19, 2013, 10:09:52 AM
Perhaps, but this also includes strong possibility to transform into mindless consumerism.
Meaning, that one has the ultimate desire to just run through entire life, from thing to another, without possibility to REALLY belong, be attached or truly indulge into something. Too busy to consume or experience, that no time to even really experience anything.
Has maybe nothing to do with the Topic:
Isn't this the Main problem of all (Sub)cultures since Years? If your really into something, you will not be same into a Opposite one. But its much easier to be in all at the same Time. Or is it just a feeling i have, when i see the Listening Behavours of the People and check out the Ideology of these People?
For the Topic:
Have a Break on the Wide World and listen to the Stuff you are sure you like and after some time you will maybe interested again whats going on. I did this several Times and it works always fine. Everytime the "Scenes" and the Music got on my Nerves, i take a Break (or a Kitkat XD)
I'm bored of people getting bored of harsh noise :)
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 19, 2013, 10:09:52 AM
Perhaps, but this also includes strong possibility to transform into mindless consumerism.
Meaning, that one has the ultimate desire to just run through entire life, from thing to another, without possibility to REALLY belong, be attached or truly indulge into something. Too busy to consume or experience, that no time to even really experience anything.
I don't think so. Being in move doesn't (or mustn't) mean lack of reflection and experience. Besides, those words describe more what should do artist in his activity - stagnation is death for art - it was manifested by Italian futurists and I believe in this idea completely. I think that people who only are listeners/viewers should do the same and follow artists... Probably this is utopian idea, but I try to use it in my life.
Once I learned that I didn't really need to pick up every single title by every single artist in every single musical genre I loved, I became much happier. Believe me, that lesson came slowly and with a lot of pain. But don't give up on harsh noise, or the new stuff you haven't yet heard. And as J Peterson said above, a period of passivity in one's musical appetites usually precedes a period of ravenous feeding! :)
Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on August 19, 2013, 05:41:24 PM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 19, 2013, 10:09:52 AM
Perhaps, but this also includes strong possibility to transform into mindless consumerism.
Meaning, that one has the ultimate desire to just run through entire life, from thing to another, without possibility to REALLY belong, be attached or truly indulge into something. Too busy to consume or experience, that no time to even really experience anything.
I don't think so. Being in move doesn't (or mustn't) mean lack of reflection and experience. Besides, those words describe more what should do artist in his activity - stagnation is death for art - it was manifested by Italian futurists and I believe in this idea completely. I think that people who only are listeners/viewers should do the same and follow artists... Probably this is utopian idea, but I try to use it in my life.
Certainly stagnation is as possible outcome as is moving without finding anything of worth. Many those modern artists reject the notions of skill and value. Movement is for sake of movement, nothing else.
Somewhere between lies possibility of being able to dig deeper. Develop skill and refine personal style. Not stagnating, but neither moving any further than necessary. I think in case of harsh noise it is often that. Therefore as listener, how soon to give up on album or as creator, how soon to move on? Would one just want to stamp the "that's done" on artist CV.
In this context I very much appreciate for example mr. Soddy's reviews of THIRDORGAN catalogue. While I never thought project did much of totally amazing works (I think GROSS tape is the best for my taste), I was very much blown away by someone ability and dedication to be able to experience and also analyze good portion of bands discography in smallest detail. You'd notice he paid attention. Wasn't busy moving on to next, but find out what exactly happens in particular release. Enough to sense each difference of level of "rawness", "density" or "harmonicaness". Something what demanded committing to one single (and rather unpopular-) artists catalogue. Same I recall about SILVUMs reviews of Bizarre Uproars 3xCD box (originally 10xCDR set) or mind boggling amounts of The Rita recordings that many others could pass as "just the same", but one truly willing to stop and fully digest, finds way more.
So basically, burning out on flood of new stuff. Certainly I understand. If one merely needs 10 CD's of Incapacitants, I won't complain. That person may experience those 10 hours more than hoarders do anything. Just listened GOLDEN SERENADES LP. Seemingly kind of Incapacitants type of thing... but.. not! AHLZAGAILZEHGUH "Remission dependance " 12" gave few spins and while it's kind of "nothing new here", it's still damn good. I forgive the one sider thing, as it allowed instant replays even sooner. Not an "album" thats highly memorable, but still great display of talent.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 19, 2013, 07:28:03 PM
So basically, burning out on flood of new stuff. Certainly I understand. If one merely needs 10 CD's of Incapacitants, I won't complain. That person may experience those 10 hours more than hoarders do anything.
I have no problem with multi-records releases. I have probably all of them what were issued in noise (Merzbox, The Noise - 30th Anniversary - 1979-2009, Pariah Tapes, I don't have Alchemy Box Is Stupid yet because 75% of records I have got from the first editions, not mention about most of releases which were issued by Vinyl-On-Demand). All of them I have listened at all and regularly I will do it without boring. And, I like very much some new noise projects, for example: ORGASMIC RESPONSE UNIT, DEVELOPER, PURITY OF ESSENCE, NECKHOLD or WINCE. But we are talking about tendencies, not about exceptions.
The staggering and shocking volume of the sets the other night at the Portland Harsh Noise Fest from such acts as PIECES (Kakerlak, Oscillating Innards, Redneck) and PEDESTRIAN DEPOSIT would make any doubter at this time be a solid believer again. It was one of those cases again where 'life really made sense' during the sets. Pure articulated power and possession.
Ah, now we're talking about live Noise, and while the live experience is very different from the at-home listening one, there are comparisons. A great live Noise set - no need to waffle on, we've all felt it. But it takes a social maven to want to go out all the time to see gigs, and then one had to endure the so-so, "that was good, really" type sets. I don't know how often they occur in other peoples' areas, here in Melbourne we're having something of a Noise renaissance and it's an interesting time to be getting both bored with Noise and bored with the whole going-out experience. I've got to say that I'm more encouraged than enthused. There are some stand-up quality acts (anything Mark Groves is in, for example, is going to work live), BUT there's also the get-together fuck-around groups of mates who have their fun and make their noises and that's cool man, awesome, blah blah...for a jaded old fart it takes more than that to motivate me to leave the warmth (currently) of my little unit and move.
The problem with living in Oz is that the outright excellent international acts hardly ever come. Anyone wanting to experience the best Noise has to offer has to travel, and I think that might be the case world-wide, not just for those of us doomed to the arsehole of the Earth. The Incapacitants? Con-Dom? The Haters? I know the latter two, at least, are commited enough to travel (especially GX) but still, people also have to travel to see them. Noise is a two-way commitment, always was - nothing is handed to us on a plate.
If it's good noise, you'll come back to it.
If it's bad noise, you won't.
That's the way I see it.
When i feel that way i feel scary. Last time it happend i fixed the problem playing back Merzbow's Hole..it was like re-descovering Noise has no time...
Possibilities with noise are ENDLESS. The limit is just something we create.
The Purge has done the job. Not only have I had the pleasure of excreting a load of material that I could never listen to again, I've focused on the sounds that resonate. Fortunately, it's not a lot - I don't wish to have shelves and shelves of things. Cdrs with important material are being ripped, their carcasses discarded as I drain, cds, tapes and vynal that I don't want are forming a growing pile that I'll be getting rid of, one way or the other (before you ask - no. I've made a list for Facebook friends and that's it. And what I can't give away I'll throw away - fuck it, it's just junk to me).
What's left is inspiration - I'm tempted to, once I've finished The Purge, list all those albums - cds, vynal, tapes, digital files - that I've kept and why. A bit of self indulgent patter after the task of rounding up and sending to the camps. So, you people were right - it's not burning out, it's re-igniting based on conscious decision making and a bit of work. Thank you to all.
Lenin was right - "Purge and purge again!"
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on August 21, 2013, 04:03:23 AM
The Purge has done the job. Not only have I had the pleasure of excreting a load of material that I could never listen to again, I've focused on the sounds that resonate.
I've recently done this with my jazz collection. It was uplifting to the extreme. I purged the need to own every single Cecil Taylor release (as an example) and the ones that actually speak to me are speaking more clearly and passionately.
I'd have to concur with the "mood thing" argument. The times that I've felt burned out on harsh noise were the times that I was at such a low that life in general couldn't spark my interest. No music could be worth my bother. No effort could be worth my bother. Couldn't even be fucked with killing myself.
On the other hand, I've encountered plenty of occasions where music that I love, that I LOVE, just irritates the fuck out of me (noise included), and nothing, but nothing serves better at clearing that noise out of my system than a pure scorching blast of supreme harshness, typically Incapacitants, typically Feedback Of NMS or No Risk, No Return. Crisp, clean, aural cleansing.
Apply. Rinse. Repeat. Till approximately deaf.
Yup, definitely a mood thing.