I'm surprised to find no topic here covering this. The free jazz of the 1960s has quite a lot in common with noise music and has had a distinct influence on the musical pallette of industrial and PE, from acts like Borbetomagus through to Philip Best's synth solos for Whitehouse which were a dead ringer for Sun Ra's noise synth sound of the early 70s.
JOHN COLTRANE is probably best known for his very nicely constructed A Love Supreme album but if you wanted to hear a balls-out aggressive, borderline psychotic and transcendental 40 minute screaming assault on the senses try Ascension. I'm also a big fan of the awkward and angular LP put together from his final set of recordings, Expression.
ALBERT AYLER was a troubled and conflicted man who tried to find spirituality in music and made some of the most unusual recordings in the genre fusing wild atonal blowing and sweet melody with a Mexican funeral music influence. The one to go for first is Love Cry which has succinct versions of his most famous riffs, and after that explore the exquisite live material of the mid-60s with drone-style violin playing. I am a huge apologist for his controversial soul album New Grass, which jazz snobs hated.
I have a lot of SUN RA material. I'm listening to 'Hidden Fire' right now which inspired me to start this thread. Any noise freak will find things to love in the chaotic and dissonant live material of the early 1970s where he sometimes did twenty minute synthesiser solos which sound more like they fit on Come Org or Broken Flag ten years later than in the world of jazz. In the enormous discography there is everything from angular free blowing to silly sci-fi chanting to swing era standards to a full album of cover versions from Walt Disney films. Discovering Sun Ra is like entering another dimension and I would compare its impact on me to discovering Throbbing Gristle at a young age. Sharing a dressing room and a bill once with Marshall Allen who still keeps the Arkestra alive despite approaching the age of 90 was like a dream for me - doubly so as he's an extremely bright, pleasant, amusing and shockingly down to earth man.
Funny, I was thinking yesterday about the occasional link between Noise and jazz. There's definitely a link to be made between the expertise of improvisation, although one can argue jazz and Noise are at different levels. Mind you, the recent Hijokaidan release with saxophonist Akira Sakata shows those levels might not be so different. But I was listening to The Necks, who have something of a jazz background, but who's minimalist pieces have taken jazz beyond it's usual "black" roots to something polar and different, and I was idly wondering about comparisons to similarly minimal Industrial sounds.
Re Coltraine - try to find some live footage of his classic quartet in action. The documentary "Trane Tracks" includes some stunning film of an outdoor live performance in which one can see the musicians literally steaming, the steam rising from them as they play. "Ascencion", indeed, is the one to listen to for pure sounds, and I'd also recommend "Om", but I have to admit my tastes in Coltraine are more for "My Favourite Things" these days.
Sun Ra - I tried, over the years, I definitely tried but in the end I had to admit defeat, mostly over the more earlier, New Orleans-style swing that was so prevalent in much of his work. It's true his solo synth freak outs can work for Noise pervs (try his "meeting" with John Cage here (http://www.ubu.com/sound/ra.html), which is basically a juxtaposition between Cage's spoken word, silence, and Ra's synth freaking), but I just couldn't get into the Ra frame of mind. My personal theory is that Ra was something of a cult leader - he kept such a control over his musicians, pretty much changing how they thought and behaved (sleep deprivation, for one), I don't think it's too distant a comparison. I find his movies more interesting than his records - "The Magic Sun" is a good combination of visual and sound, and of course the movie "Space Is The Place" is one of the most entertaining "blackspoitation" flicks one can watch (the scene where he clears out a Fourties jazz club with the power of his piano is hilarious). I can see why his fans can be so obsessive, dressing up to go to their gigs and so forth. You either get Ra's music or you don't, and I don't.
I suppose Borbetomagus would be the most recognised jazz/Noise fusion group. Never really explored them.
If you like Zorn's Parachute years, The Art Ensemble of Chicago - Nessa box set would be of interest. Lots of clattering, duck calls, and wild improvisation. I haven't heard anything else I like from them, though.
I have lots of good luck with Han Bennink, Brotzmann (and most of the groups except the Chicago Tentet + 1), Paul Dunmall (more musical), Peter Kowald (more musical), John Butcher, Irene Schweizer (Jazz Meets India), and various drummers (Nasheet Waits, for instance). If you like AMM, Iskra 1903, and other Emanem groups, is a cool little scene of kitchen improvisation, electronics, and electro-acoustics. If you're interested in improvised psychedelia, the obvious choices are late-60s/early-70s Miles Davis and Alice Coltraine. I wish there was more like AAyler, but I haven't had any luck finding it. He's uniquely lyrical, just as Jerry Garcia was.
Some of the krautrock scene incorporated free jazz, but maybe that is for another thread. Guru Guru fusion. Xhol Caravan, etc.
I haven't had a lot of luck with Sun Ra. The best album I've heard so far is Astro Black, and I like some of the Heliocentric Worlds series. I haven't been able to get into Anthony Braxton, either.
I relate very little of this to noise, though. I see why it is, but I don't compartmentalize it like that. Even when seeing Brotzmann live and watching him play his joke on us all while he lazily blasts his lungs for the 4000th time, I'm not thinking noise. If I associate it with any other period or style, it strikes me as psychedelic and of jam band orientation. I don't really care for the language or tonality of jazz, so it fits into extremely tiny pinholes of mood and desire. It's a world I rarely tap and that is unto itself in my associations.
Dislocation! Probably the closest one can get to free jazz/noise hybrid (along with Borbetomagus, of course). Then there's also the Junko / Urabe / Henritzi collaborations ("Ecstasy of the Angels", "Swing Low, Sweet Silence", etc.) and maybe also two Henritzi & Rinji collaborations as well as two Kuwayama & Urabe collaborations (if you can find them). Recent "Barcelona Express" LP by Urabe & Rinji is absolutely essential.
I'm also quite fond of Jean-Luc Guionnet's numerous CDs documenting live performances with other free impro/jazz musicians and of French free impro/jazz "scene" in general, e.g. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x953q8_a-l-improviste-drouet-perraud_music - the entire channel is worth exploring, but this video particularly. Amor Fati (the label) has released some really good stuff in the past few years.
There's Wasteland Jazz Unit on the other side of the globe (they had a cassette on Skeleton Dust, among others), and hardly anything else I'm aware of. If someone has any recommendations on the more underground free jazz units in the US and/or Canada, don't hesistate to share them, please.
try
ALAN SILVA - Luna Surface
CHARLES GAYLE - Touchin on trane
if you absolutley must have electric instruments in the setting any of Brötzmann`s DIE LIKE A DOG or FULL BLAST groups should do the trick.
By the way, a couple of weeks ago i was at a show with the big band jazz/progrock FIRE ORCHESTRA and for a few minutes in the middle of the set it was pure noise (á la Merzbow), maybe it didn´t fit in all that well but sure put a smile on my face.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on January 25, 2014, 03:16:09 AM
I wish there was more like AAyler, but I haven't had any luck finding it. He's uniquely lyrical, just as Jerry Garcia was.
Haven't explored it enough yet but have heard Pharaoh Sanders early 70s things with a slightly similar feel. And yes, it really is a euphoric/psychedelic/Garcia thing.
Han Bennink is a breathtaking percussionist. I was listening to a disc of him jamming with Eugene Chadbourne recently, they're flitting between improv and country/blues standards and usually I'd be blown away by Eugene's skill but I was like 'woah, who is this drummer?'
Anthony Braxton seems like some kind of pretentious grant-grabbing autist to me. I've heard worse than his recordings which are at least intriguing but the sleeve notes and those insane diagrams just inspire mockery and laughter for me.
I have very very small selection of jazz of any type. Free jazz is just handful of items.
However, from little I know, perhaps weirdest is JOHN STEVENS & EVAN PARKER "Corner to Corner + The Longest Night" CD.
I was years ago in one NYC jazz store, as they had small selection of "oddities" (scored Mnemonists CD etc). While I was browsing records, this CD was being played. I asked what it was, and bought it. 2007 OGUN (uk) label re-issue of mostly late 70's stuff.
It's ultra minimalistic, using high tone soprano saxophone and percussion with drum set consisting merely piccolo snare and two hi-hats. It borders somewhere between ridiculous & genius.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdyB2rDUttc
Their 90's recordings where intensity of 70's is substituted with almost painful level of anti-music. Not noise in terms of loud, fast and brutal, but just the stuff stripped down from almost anything worth of "musical value". Until in very end of piece the usual odd fast spasming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnF392fWBAc
Both linked pieces can be found on the double CD
i like some Don Cherry stuff, like "Brown rice" and "Mu". I like the mix of jazz, psych and more "ethnic" stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2qkql2vFp8
and the straight trumpet-percussions parts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax9eEGR_Q7c
Alice Coltrane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLP3O-XbdHo (love the bass line at the beginning)
Archie Shepp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT3-xXM83VM
some Gunter Hampel stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr0nV83z3Os
...don't know if Shub-Niggurath could fit the topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHK-5pLrBN0
Funny that this thread popped up... some weeks I fall into a systematic repeat playing routine of SUN RA's 'Atlantis' --- this is one of those weeks. So many of his abstract and layered percussion lines in Atlantis i directly equate with my favorite aspects of harsh noise.
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on January 26, 2014, 06:06:33 AM
Han Bennink is a breathtaking percussionist. I was listening to a disc of him jamming with Eugene Chadbourne recently, they're flitting between improv and country/blues standards and usually I'd be blown away by Eugene's skill but I was like 'woah, who is this drummer?'
Yeah. One of the very rare drummers who can pull off an lp lenght percussion solo.
I encourage everyone who hasn't yet heard it to check out Topography of the Lungs by Evan Parker, Derek Bailey and Han Bennink.
Masayuki Takayanagi / New Direction: Call in Question. (PSF, 1994)
Masayuki Takayanagi And New Direction Unit: Eclipse (1975)
Last Exit : S/T (1986)
It is interesting to discuss something like this in context of its relationship or likeness to noise...especially today, given that more and more artists will be drawing from a massive, flattened palette of sounds and ideas offered by noise, free jazz and dozens of other genres all in one shot. Generally speaking, sympathies with any kind of 'hard' music will change the character of the individual genres as time goes on. There is no longer any real correct definition of what free jazz and its different sounds is. What is simply a kind of far out end of jazz for one listener is something far more related to mad experimentalism depending entirely on what ELSE that listener likes to get down to.
Seems to me (perhaps obviously) that you've got artists who followed their instrument into wild territories of extended techniques and total deconstruction and then younger people who took up instruments out of an existing interest in weird sound, aiming to emulate the former before anything else.
So in terms of NOISE you could enjoy something like John Butcher with his manipulation of feedback through multiple mics and a sax or even Keith Rowe if you're talking about the dissolution of 'jazz' cultures into completely dismantled fuckery with an instrument. Then maybe groups like Taco Bells from Finland or Bolide, who we have here in Brighton, would represent the newer, underground no holds barred stuff. Certainly hundreds more on either side but they would be my brief recommendations.
Jazz is such an awkward loaded term anyway. At some point this stuff all becomes 'improv' anyway!
RIP Arthur Doyle who croaked it yesterday. His recording with the Blue Humans are certainly on the noise side of jazz. And goddamn if he doesn't appear as a guest on the late Sun Ra Disney covers album I love. And as times have thankfully changed, allow this line from his biography and its implications with regard to the accident of his birth genetics to reverberate: "born in Birmingham, Alabama, in 1944"...
free jazz is great, best genre of music really
Interstellar Space is the best Coltrane record I've listened to.
this blog is great for recs, constant flow of information: http://www.freejazzblog.org/
Massola : Neanderthal Jazz from Czech Republic
http://bandzone.cz/massola
Quote from: 666bpm on April 27, 2014, 08:38:45 PM
Massola : Neanderthal Jazz from Czech Republic
http://bandzone.cz/massola
Interestingly enough, this band did a collab with Sedem Minut Strachu that is crazy fucking nuts!! Pretty great pairing from what I've heard. I'm also a huge admirer of Dead Neanderthals and Burning Tree as well.
Classic stuff, free jazz is probably my most listened to genre (maybe? Maybe not?). I love Ayler, Rashied Ali, Borbetomagus, Cecil Taylor, Roscoe Mitchell.... Anthony Braxton would be done a disservice to call him free jazz, since he's got a lot of focus on compositional stuff, but he's easily my favourite jazz artist. John Coltrane's Interstellar Space is one of my most listened to albums.
Topography of the Lungs is probably the free album of all time.
I really do see an informal link between noise(core) and free jazz. Not so much noise in general but the dynamics and relationships between players when in a group setting has a lot in common.
Trio of Rogier Smal, David Birchall and Colin Webster rolled through town last Friday and was an utter force. Easily some of the most energetic and inventive guitar playing I've ever seen from Birchall. He's become a total force of nature in the short time I've been aware of his work.
From what I understand they're off to record together soon so hopefully we'll see a record from that trio, but is certainly recommend checking out any of these players at the moment.
Just listened four albums by Musica Transonic, a lot of it sounded to me like free jazz driven through Asahito Nanjo's sound spectrum - anybody familiar with High Rise know what I am talking about.
Also Ground Zero's 'Last Concert' (especially the last track) sounded very free-jazzy noise to my ears.
One of my favorites is the collaboration album 'Coniunctio' by two Czech bands The Blue Effect (beat/rock/prog group) & Jazz Q Praha (jazz-rock). LP is a real jaw dropper, perfect mixture of noise rock and free jazz. Surprising to think that it has been released as early as 1970. Not too far from what Kevin Martin's God have made in their most chaotic moments.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23i09h_blue-effect-jazz-q-praha-1970-coniunctio-full-album_music
Quote from: Marko-V on March 25, 2016, 11:27:44 PMOne of my favorites is the collaboration album 'Coniunctio' by two Czech bands The Blue Effect (beat/rock/prog group) & Jazz Q Praha (jazz-rock). LP is a real jaw dropper, perfect mixture of noise rock and free jazz. Surprising to think that it has been released as early as 1970. Not too far from what Kevin Martin's God have made in their most chaotic moments.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23i09h_blue-effect-jazz-q-praha-1970-coniunctio-full-album_music
Wow, this is great stuff. Not familiar with this band, thanks for the rec!!!
Very interesting thread, thanks for sharing those recommendations
Imagine The Sound is an incredible documentary - Cecil Taylor, Archie Shepp, Bill Dixon and Paul Bley. I'm only really familiar with Dixon and Taylor, but all give amazing performances, great interviews and it's extraordinarily well done. I got a great quality rip from cinemageddon, it's well worth watching for anyone with even a casual interest in experimental music.
I've also been listening to Frank Wright a lot too - I picked up a copy of Your Prayer on LP recently and hot damn what a record.
Quote from: holy ghost on April 10, 2016, 04:00:37 AM
I've also been listening to Frank Wright a lot too - I picked up a copy of Your Prayer on LP recently and hot damn what a record.
Just right now listening to Wright's One for John which is also great record and another BYG gem but Your Prayer is among my free jazz favorites, catchy and really happening. All those records Frank did with Noah Howard (with shuffled leader names) are so good. A recent issue of Finnish Mutiny! fanzine has a really nice Wright history+discography article. I recall there is an unreleased album by the two in the vaults of BMG, ha!
And hails to Marko-V for recommending Coniunctio for me in a record fair sometime ago!
Back from seeing Han Bennink playing with Terrie Ex in duo form, smallest stage of a festival which was already full of good music of many genres - pure free jazz improv and what I think may have been one of the most breathtaking performances I've ever seen.
Han Bennink after a lifetime of playing percussion can transform atmosphere with a single gesture - there are a few standard clowning stunts he uses but then he subverts further and goes darker and stranger - the internal rhythms can make forgotten channels in the body open and careful listening is repaid in triple. The guitarist amazing too.
Highest possible recommendation for a live experience, Mijnheer Bennink looks in great shape but will not be around forever. For those here who prefer music made by Aryan looking guys, he looks very Aryan! Magic is the word rather than music.
Although maybe he will be around much longer if the example of Marshall Allen leading the Sun Ra Arkestra at the same event counts for anything - blowing as hard and fierce and angry as possible at age 90, the man who liberated Paris on his first European visit plus a full band transformed a tatty Welsh seaside ballroom into the Overlook Hotel with When You Wish Upon a Star from Pinocchio before a kabalistic trip round the signs and symbols of the galaxy and humanity ensued.
https://deadneanderthals.bandcamp.com/album/endless-voids (https://deadneanderthals.bandcamp.com/album/endless-voids)
This stuff's great. "Heavy jazz", eh? Absolutely removed from anything like jazz right into dark ambient territory. A few guitar twangs and sax squalls to remind you of the actual instruments making it (some of them), but apart from that, jazz is dead.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on July 13, 2016, 01:17:33 PM
https://deadneanderthals.bandcamp.com/album/endless-voids (https://deadneanderthals.bandcamp.com/album/endless-voids)
This stuff's great. "Heavy jazz", eh? Absolutely removed from anything like jazz right into dark ambient territory. A few guitar twangs and sax squalls to remind you of the actual instruments making it (some of them), but apart from that, jazz is dead.
This is a wonderful album! One of my fav records from last year. It's a bit of a departure from their "jazz" sound where it's way more clattery/skronky. I really like Polaris, Prime, the "Random Acts of Nuclear Devastation" release (I only snagged the bandcamp download of this one) and the Worship The Sun CD as well.
As well you should check out Burning Tree, they did an LP on Utech that is fucking INSANE. Wow is it wild man.
Also DN did an LP with some others called Fantoon thats great as well.
Albert Ayler would have been 80 yesterday. I spent the whole day paying tribute to the wizard.
borbetomagus-'free' noise giants from NYC going since 80's
could song like Whitehouse with two saxophones and electric guitar
can't complain about any release really
Borbetomagus are so great. I love this picture of them.
(http://occii.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/borbetomagusmovie.jpg)
I scored a NM copy of Zurich a few years back for next to nothing. That was my first exposure after hearing them name dropped for so long. There's also a documentary about them that's like, half done but you can find 20 min of it on vimeo. Looks wild man!!
If I had to pick an all time favorite record from this style it might be "Nipples" by the Brotzmann Sextet/Quartet. Just the perfect mix of players, attitude, tones, etc.
Quote from: holy ghost on July 15, 2016, 08:22:45 PM
If I had to pick an all time favorite record from this style it might be "Nipples" by the Brotzmann Sextet/Quartet. Just the perfect mix of players, attitude, tones, etc.
True, great record.
Anybody also knows Sprawl? It must be almost 15 years since I listened to it the last time, but I remember liking it a lot. Some kind of Free Jazz Supergroup: Peter Brötzmann, Alex Buess, Michael Wertmüller, Stephan Wittwer, William Parker.
https://www.discogs.com/Sprawl-Sprawl/master/814330 (https://www.discogs.com/Sprawl-Sprawl/master/814330)
has anyone mentioned Brotzman senior's 'machine gun' yet or his duo with Brotzman jr 'vodka king'?
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on July 13, 2016, 01:17:33 PM
https://deadneanderthals.bandcamp.com/album/endless-voids (https://deadneanderthals.bandcamp.com/album/endless-voids)
This stuff's great. "Heavy jazz", eh? Absolutely removed from anything like jazz right into dark ambient territory. A few guitar twangs and sax squalls to remind you of the actual instruments making it (some of them), but apart from that, jazz is dead.
In the credits, under "voice and electronics," there's a Thomas Ekelund. Is this Mr. Trepaneringsritualen??
I think I might have less than ten jazz albums in my collection overall. These days I find myself pretty easily bored by the earlier Davis, Coltrane, typical stuff I own. From what I've explored in free jazz, I like it much better than "regular" jazz, but still often find something lacking. So far, I seem to prefer stuff without drums or guitar, for increased "anti-musical" factor, but I'm convinced there's intense jazz drumming and guitar that slays, I just haven't heard the really killer stuff yet.
What I'm looking for is the harsher, squalling, explosive multi-brass type that's more in-your-face. In the direction of Brotzmann and Borbetomagus. Any recommendations?
Quote from: Peterson on July 18, 2016, 10:29:36 PM
What I'm looking for is the harsher, squalling, explosive multi-brass type that's more in-your-face. In the direction of Brotzmann and Borbetomagus. Any recommendations?
Alan Silva's "Luna surface" is worth trying in this case. And Mohel from Finland is really intense blasting! Their "The Second temple" is really great.
QuoteWhat I'm looking for is the harsher, squalling, explosive multi-brass type that's more in-your-face. In the direction of Brotzmann and Borbetomagus. Any recommendations?
Interstellar Space by John Coltrane and Rashied Ali is a total skronk blowout. Some of his harshest shit. Really exciting drums and sax.
As I mentioned above the Burning Tree LP is one of harshest things I've heard.
I absolutely love the Braxton/Wolf Eyes collab. Really out there.
I'd also suggest both "Unit Structures" and "Conquistador!" by the Cecil Taylor Unit. I'm an unabashed Taylor fanatic but these Blue Note albums are the best entryway into his huge catalog. Plus Blue Note has just reissued them which is a GREAT move.
I enjoy the Paul Flaherty / Chris Corsano collaborations: The Hated Music, The Beloved Music
at the 'rock' end of free jazz-
Rudolph grey 'remain in light'
various 'decension' releases-post skullflower Stefan jaworzin project
at the jazz end- Coltrane's Japan recordings, anything by Albert Ayer, especially his early esp disk records.
Well shit, sometimes the classics are what you need to deliver the goods:
Anthony Braxton & Derek Bailey - Moment Precieux (1987)
Just a phenomenal and all encompassing collaboration between two majorly important musicians. There has been some interesting stuff written about Braxton in this thread, looking back over it, but here he is pure soul and feeling. Maybe the most surprising thing about this record is how tuneful and beautiful it so often becomes: loads of space, atmosphere and movement around deceptively simple and easy going little passages that morph into really distinct melodies. Bailey brings his usual palette to the table but employs the same kind of ear in developing these understated progressions that move the improvisations together. It seems that Braxton quite naturally takes a lead role more often simply owing to the timbre and volume of his instruments when placed next to Bailey's guitar but you get the feeling that it's Del pushing things into new directions more frequently, changing up the rhythms, pace, mood and so on. Can't recommend this enough and it always seems to be going cheap.
Sonny Sharrock- Black Woman Sharrock is my favorite free guitar player. The female yodeling-ish vocals are sublime. Not extremely aggressive but almost perfect.
Mtume Umoja Ensemble- Alkebu-Lan - Land of the Blacks Recorded only a couple miles from where I live in the early 70s or late 60s. This is a dark record (in more ways than one hah!). Starts out straightforward then gets wiiiild. The kids chanting on Baba Hengates is insane.
R.I.P. Cecil Taylor, a true legend!
(https://img.discogs.com/ppzons-PJJpwvmznsM5wMxdlQaY=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5708174-1400511515-8474.jpeg.jpg)
The Joe Daley Trio At Newport '63
have original Reels of meticulous arcane concrete "noise" experiments from notorious member
done in that era
personally bestowed for me along with cases of his reels & tape machine plus other "gear"
why?
something that's called
in his words
lineage
(http://www.n01ze.com/Muzak/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Erudition-de-Sommeil-casset-768x459.jpg)
Recorded from the original master 1/4" Reel to Reel tapes. Using the same Teac Tape machine bestowed upon me by the creator, we present to you an epic in Occult history. Journey deep into the realms of the unknown with this masterpiece of musique concrete by one of the mysterious forefathers of the method, Ammon De Adda in this maelstrom of pataphysiques spanning from original recordings starting 1963 until the mid 1980's.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Lwlix-yAL._SX522_.jpg)
Eye never really comprehend the extreme natural high of playing free jazz drums until semi recently...
ironically
met Louie Bellson through relative he played with
he signed promo 8x10 photo for me at age 9 or something
had not even the slightest clue who he was except someone my grandma had played some gigs with
was heavy into black sabbath & learning bass then
would be decades later until even comprehended who he was... or miles davis... or max roach... or buddy rich
yet knew who bill ward... keith moon... bonham... neil peart & ginger baker were
wasn't really interested in drums
more like never figured would have enough coordination & agility
until forced myself learning
strange as usual
honestly free jazz drums really are so much fun playing
Art Blakey & Ginger Baker Drum Duo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qghrsBfSbgk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qghrsBfSbgk)
obviously there's always the standard classic Miles Davis - Bitches Brew (1970)
yet the soundtrack of The Mutations 1974 also has insane chaotic free Jazz soundtrack segments
plus too many 70s giallo movies for naming them all
btw there's always Nihilist Spasm Band
(https://img.discogs.com/aH1MGpn6JA9cBxbNVz3q9LT4Pzk=/fit-in/400x265/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/A-84064-1097983559.jpg.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ERTEtZB8Iw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ERTEtZB8Iw)
recommended balls out energy blastingz:
yosuke yamashita "chiasma"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB_cOgLa4rA
and yes RIP cecil taylor, heres my favorite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EstPgi4eMe4
Great thread here! Would like to resurrect with an absolute stone cold killer which I don't believe has been mentioned (?) and which I think will appeal to denizens of this board:
Borbetomagus' Snuff Jazz
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6cB-IKnEDWw/hqdefault.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cB-IKnEDWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cB-IKnEDWw)
Absolute hell.
Talkin' Borbetomagus is my idea of a good time! And that one is an absolute RAGER. I still haven't seen the documentary, due to my reluctance towards ordering a DVD on amazon when I don't even own a DVD player.... however seeing it is very high up on my list of things I plan on getting around to adding to my list of things to do.
My brother is a huge Eric Dolphy fan and to be honest, Out To Lunch is cool but a record I rarely spin, reading about the new 3xLP on Resonance Records https://resonancerecords.org/artists/eric-dolphy/ (https://resonancerecords.org/artists/eric-dolphy/) I decided to give it another listen and wow, I think I'm ready for this sort of thing in my life - not as wild or free and I think that's what I gravitate towards, and it always seems a little too tame for a wild free jazzer like myself. But maybe having not been plying that much free jazz lately has given me time to appreciate even if it's not a harsh blow out.... anyway, fuck this RSD shit, I'll just buy the CD if prices are insane.....
I'm hardly a frequent user/abuser of the genre, but love the hook in Albert Ayler's Spiritual Unity (https://youtu.be/xWsIG5sNq1Q). I haven't spun it in a minute but Don Cherry's Symphony for Improvisers (https://youtu.be/hS-BEy80p5k) was a banger last I heard it, too.
anyone feel like making some intense freejazz w/noise?
can play/record real drums in the style
will be working on that "project" soon anyways
i would say:
peter brötsmann - machine gun
derek bailey - solo guitar
anthrony braxton - for alto
these three are close to being noise, actually. i also like ornette colemans "the shape of jazz to come", but while it's dissonant, it's not as wild as the three mentioned above. there is also a danish guy still working called jørgen teller, apparently trying to combine stooges-like punk rock guitar and free jazz
Quote from: brutalist_tapes on December 07, 2018, 03:15:54 PM
there is also a danish guy still working called jørgen teller, apparently trying to combine stooges-like punk rock guitar and free jazz
I'd love to hear this - will have to do some digging.
The recent Derek Bailey reissues I'm Honest Johns have been fantastic. The Bailey/Han Bennink one in particular is so far removed from "jazz" and is a real treat. A lot of yelling and screaming etc. The Solo Guitar DLP is just such a needed reissue.
Bill Orcutt takes a lot from Bailey - I've been listening to a lot of Harry Pussy lately and he's got a real great chaotic vibe.
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on January 25, 2014, 01:39:16 AM
I have a lot of SUN RA material. I'm listening to 'Hidden Fire' right now which inspired me to start this thread. Any noise freak will find things to love in the chaotic and dissonant live material of the early 1970s where he sometimes did twenty minute synthesiser solos which sound more like they fit on Come Org or Broken Flag ten years later than in the world of jazz. In the enormous discography there is everything from angular free blowing to silly sci-fi chanting to swing era standards to a full album of cover versions from Walt Disney films. Discovering Sun Ra is like entering another dimension and I would compare its impact on me to discovering Throbbing Gristle at a young age. Sharing a dressing room and a bill once with Marshall Allen who still keeps the Arkestra alive despite approaching the age of 90 was like a dream for me - doubly so as he's an extremely bright, pleasant, amusing and shockingly down to earth man.
Sun ra is god
I was really huge into Zu for a hot minute and kind of forgot about them. Been jamming "How To Raise an Ox" with them and Mats Gustafson and "The Way of The Animal Powers" and they're both excellent. I will have to look out for their newer albums. That's gotten me back into stuff like 16-17, Painkiller.... this sort of stuff with a wild drummer and electric bass fucking rips so hard when the "mood is right".
I have been really into the Braxton "In The Tradition" LPs as of late - raxton with a bunch of Scandinavian jazzers skronking through the classics. Really exciting stuff. I need to track down the 6 Monks Co positions LP as well.
Globe Unity 67 by Globe Unity Orchestra
and
European Echoes by Manfred Schoof
Both are extremely dense and as dense as I've heard free jazz wise.
masayuki takayanagi -- this album is a beast
https://youtu.be/k8eIXTJKrlU (https://youtu.be/k8eIXTJKrlU)
Quote from: holy ghost on February 09, 2019, 06:59:22 PM
I was really huge into Zu for a hot minute and kind of forgot about them. Been jamming "How To Raise an Ox" with them and Mats Gustafson and "The Way of The Animal Powers" and they're both excellent. I will have to look out for their newer albums. That's gotten me back into stuff like 16-17, Painkiller.... this sort of stuff with a wild drummer and electric bass fucking rips so hard when the "mood is right".
Yes, I remember the bass being particularly good with Zu. I hope that is correct.
I started listening to this the other day and haven't finished.
Akira Sakata: alto saxophone, Bb clarinet, voice
Kiko Dinucci:electric guitar
Kohei Gomi: electronics
Paal Nilssen-Love: drums
Toshiji Mikawa: electronics
https://pnlrecords.bandcamp.com/album/new-japanese-noise
Quote from: holy ghost on February 09, 2019, 06:59:22 PM
I have been really into the Braxton "In The Tradition" LPs as of late - raxton with a bunch of Scandinavian jazzers skronking through the classics. Really exciting stuff. I need to track down the 6 Monks Co positions LP as well.
I saw Braxton in concert last Friday here in Stockholm, he played with his octett. I´ve never been that much of a fan, he is too academic and calculated for my taste, and allthough nice it didn´t really grab me all that much. He still had plenty of very nice long, flowing solos and looked in very good shape indeed.
Abe Kaoru
Quote from: Zeno Marx on February 11, 2019, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: holy ghost on February 09, 2019, 06:59:22 PM
I was really huge into Zu for a hot minute and kind of forgot about them. Been jamming "How To Raise an Ox" with them and Mats Gustafson and "The Way of The Animal Powers" and they're both excellent. I will have to look out for their newer albums. That's gotten me back into stuff like 16-17, Painkiller.... this sort of stuff with a wild drummer and electric bass fucking rips so hard when the "mood is right".
Yes, I remember the bass being particularly good with Zu. I hope that is correct.
I started listening to this the other day and haven't finished.
Akira Sakata: alto saxophone, Bb clarinet, voice
Kiko Dinucci:electric guitar
Kohei Gomi: electronics
Paal Nilssen-Love: drums
Toshiji Mikawa: electronics
https://pnlrecords.bandcamp.com/album/new-japanese-noise
this is raw
Quote from: magnus on February 11, 2019, 10:36:38 PM
Quote from: holy ghost on February 09, 2019, 06:59:22 PM
I have been really into the Braxton "In The Tradition" LPs as of late - raxton with a bunch of Scandinavian jazzers skronking through the classics. Really exciting stuff. I need to track down the 6 Monks Co positions LP as well.
I saw Braxton in concert last Friday here in Stockholm, he played with his octett. I´ve never been that much of a fan, he is too academic and calculated for my taste, and allthough nice it didn´t really grab me all that much. He still had plenty of very nice long, flowing solos and looked in very good shape indeed.
I mean this is different strokes but I saw him and his band in 2017, went to Montreal for the weekend to see him and Roscoe Mitchell and it was absolutely grand. The band was 'out' even for me with what, two harp players and a tuba but it was just unreal to see a living legend perform. I think about that show as a top 10 life experience.
In comparison to say, Ornette Coleman who saw a few years before he passed it was totally different energies. Ornette was great but played "the classics" where Braxton is never afraid of really just cutting the fuck loose and going so out there with young players and a fresh juicy attitude.
Quote from: victoraalvarez on February 10, 2019, 08:23:31 PM
Globe Unity 67 by Globe Unity Orchestra
and
European Echoes by Manfred Schoof
Both are extremely dense and as dense as I've heard free jazz wise.
European Echoes is awesome.
I recommend Milford Graves "Bäbi" and "Nommo" too. No sax skronk but great albums. Bäbi was recently re-issued on cd, Nommo is damn hard to find & expensive.
Babi rips hard!! I got the CD reissue recently and it's great. It's a vinyl rip but very well done. Arthur Doyle shreds on this one.
I recently found Cecil Taylor's "Conquistador!" - original Blue Note press for $25 in a shop. I've had the CD and then a reissue LP but to clamp down on an OG is a huge one. Bill Dixon is seriously on point for this one.
I've been really into Frank Wright, I found the Italian reissue of the Frank Wright Trio LP from 1965 - great listen. I've had Your Prayer for a while and that one even more fierce. I have "Unity" on CD which is live in '74 and a full hour of skronk.
Blue Humans - Live in NY 1980
unbelievable record.
Picked up the reissue 12" of the Brötzmann/Van Hove/Bennink LP "Free Jazz Und Kinder" from Total Black - not known to me before now and wow - a free jazz workshop with a bunch of 8-10 year olds recorded in 1972. It's fucking insane. Wow. As chaotic as any other Brötzmann stuff but also, mostly made by kids? This record is just out to lunch and has received my HIGHEST possible recommendation!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Paul Flaherty, so I will. Paul Motherfucking Flaherty! He has several duo albums with drummer Chris Corsano that give Brotzmann a run for his money. "The Hated Music" is a good starting point. To hear the breadth of his abilities, not just saw intensity, seek out any of his recordings with drummer Randall Colbourne. Easily my favorite free jazz saxist.
Paul's a good one and another great drummer he's associated with is Weasel Walter, probably my favorite torch-bearer of high-intensity, skronking free jazz in these modern times.
Most people know him for his band The Flying Luttenbachers, but he's led a ton of fantastic improvisation dates, like "Ominous Telepathic Mayhem", "Mechanical Malfunction" with Mary Halvorson and Peter Evans, "Plane Crash" with Henry Kaiser, "Flayed" with Alex Ward and Jed Bishop, and "Idiomatic" with Sandy Ewen.
Quote from: Haare on March 18, 2019, 04:47:26 PM
Quote from: victoraalvarez on February 10, 2019, 08:23:31 PM
Globe Unity 67 by Globe Unity Orchestra
and
European Echoes by Manfred Schoof
Both are extremely dense and as dense as I've heard free jazz wise.
European Echoes is awesome.
I recommend Milford Graves "Bäbi" and "Nommo" too. No sax skronk but great albums. Bäbi was recently re-issued on cd, Nommo is damn hard to find & expensive.
Saw brotzmann play a trio set w milford graves and william parker in 2000 or 2001. To this day probably the best musical experience of my life. Graves wasn't even using drumsticks most of the time. I remember reading somewhere that graves used to jam w hendrix back in the day...it's a nice thought to consider there may be tapes buried somewhere.
I've never worked through Archie Shepp's discography before today, and really enjoying the variety of sounds across albums. I love the balance between more traditional soul music and freak out free jazz. Particularly like these so far:
Four for Trane - more straight ahead bop but reaches out at moments, solid.
Fire Music - I know this one is already considered a classic and I see why. Will be re-spinning this frequently.
Magic of Ju-Ju - Great cover and equally good music. The percussion on the opening track is mesmerizing, great long form song with direction.
Blase - blues based jazz with harmonica and vocals. Description sounds exactly like something I would hate but it works so well here. Dark and brooding sounding, sometimes melancholic. Excellent vision and execution.
Also been listening to Marion Brown who I'm not familiar enough with yet to discuss, but I'm digging it.
Today i visited a friend and we talked about the works of Charlie Nothing from the late 60's/70's. Free jazz and psychedelic stuff that might be of interest to those posting in this topic. 2nd lp was reissued a few years ago.
Yeah, Charlie Nothing... I also have a tape from him, it´s something about a "Dingulator" - i believe this is the name of some kind of homemade instrument, possibly made out of old car parts... Recorded in 85 apparently, so much later than the lps. Been years since i listened to any of them, but thanks to this reminder it may be something for the weekend!
I can also recommend the new LP from Joe McPhee And Lasse Marhaug - "Harmonia Macrocosmica", really nice!
Andrew Hill - Judgement! 1964
This guy has become an obsession. What a fantastic piano player. I'd like to hear Steffen Schleiermacher play this album.* But yeah, this a nice bridge, at least from my perspective, from free to avant-garde jazz. This isn't noisy in the least, but it is jagged and very interesting. Accompanied by vibraphone, bass, and drums. I don't much care from the vibraphone, but with Hill's percussive style, the tones play off each other in a stunning way. Not overly dense, so there's a lot of room for everything to breathe. Power and elegance. Really impressive to my inexperienced jazz ears.
*If you want to hear Cage, or really anyone he touches, played in the most amazing way, give Steffen Schleiermacher a go.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on April 28, 2021, 12:50:47 AM
Andrew Hill - Judgement! 1964
This guy has become an obsession. What a fantastic piano player. I'd like to hear Steffen Schleiermacher play this album.* But yeah, this a nice bridge, at least from my perspective, from free to avant-garde jazz. This isn't noisy in the least, but it is jagged and very interesting. Accompanied by vibraphone, bass, and drums. I don't much care from the vibraphone, but with Hill's percussive style, the tones play off each other in a stunning way. Not overly dense, so there's a lot of room for everything to breathe. Power and elegance. Really impressive to my inexperienced jazz ears.
*If you want to hear Cage, or really anyone he touches, played in the most amazing way, give Steffen Schleiermacher a go.
Went back and listened this morning. It had been awhile since I've listened to Hill. The vibraphones absolutely add a beautiful depth, Hutcherson was the master. I was very surprised to see it was Elvin Jones on drums as the playing style was a lighter touch than his usual playing, I thought it was Roy Haynes.
Agreed that Hill is a good in-between for the bop to free jazz genres. The early-to-mid 60s albums lean heavier on the traditional side which I actually love. Not always in the mood for a the extreme. Black Fire, Judgment!, and Point of Departure are all great. Then Compulsion comes out and it's his most forceful and free statement to date. Stacked group as well with John Gilmore of Art Blakey and Sun Ra fame, Freddie Hubbard, Cecil McBee, and Joe Chambers.
Joe McPhee with the Bill Smith Ensemble - Visitation (1985)
After flipping through a pile of jazz magazines we had at work, and reading a bunch of interviews with Mile Davis, I came across one from 1984 or 1985 with Bill Smith interviewing Joe McPhee in Toronto when McPhee was in town to collaborate on this record. I'd known Joe McPhee by name for a while and quite enjoyed his recent album with Lasse Marhaug ( https://joemcpheelassemarhaug.bandcamp.com/track/harmonia-macrocosmica ) as well as his album with Konstrukt from a couple years back ( https://omlott.bandcamp.com/album/if-you-have-time ). His style is full of colour, life and soul and his collaborations always sound very natural, especially on Visitation, which also has the added bonus of them tackling Albert Ayler's classic 'Ghosts'.
https://youtu.be/IphD9bi-j_A - this might just link to the first track, but the whole album appears to be on YouTube.
The reissue has an ugly cover, the original is much better: https://www.discogs.com/Joe-McPhee-With-The-Bill-Smith-Ensemble-Visitation/release/2482788
For this kind of stuff, anything by Kaoru Abe and Borbetomagus' Snuff Jazz and Barbed Wire Maggots is all I really need. Joe McPhee is also great, The Open Door cd with Dominic Duval is pretty good.
Funny enough, picked up Paul Flaherty, Randall Colbourne, and Richard Downs' Primal Burn at a record store this weekend on a whim. An absolute heater I'm surprised goes for so cheap.
Sensor
https://sensor3.bandcamp.com/album/crossfade-frequencies (https://sensor3.bandcamp.com/album/crossfade-frequencies)
I first heard material from The Process of Weeding Out MLP on the Live '84 tape, which was cassette-only at the time. Unexpected from Black Flag and sort of blew my mind. I'd been listening to Black Flag for a few years, but I knew nothing of Greg Ginn or really, anything about the band. Next to Slip It In and that live tape, it's my most listened-to Black Flag. For me, it's aged as well as anything they've done. Having read about it since, I still don't fully understand what "12-tone structure" means, but when I try to understand Harry Partch, I don't get that analysis either. I haven't found Gone to be nearly as satisfying, so it seems like there was this small pocket in time when Ginn was at his freest and most interesting. Many BF fans would love to enter a time machine and see them in the 1979-1980, pre-Rollins era, but I think I'd tap late 1984, or early 1985, into the machine so I could see one of their few instrumental sets. These are both very good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NA5cW2nXfo
https://youtu.be/-Loq5OPsnaQ
Quote from: Zeno Marx on June 19, 2021, 05:52:27 PMMany BF fans would love to enter a time machine and see them in the 1979-1980, pre-Rollins era, but I think I'd tap late 1984, or early 1985, into the machine so I could see one of their few instrumental sets. These are both very good.
Same here - gym shorts Rollins/free jazz Ginn was the best era of BF.
same for me too about Black Flag best period period
Quote from: Fistfuck Masonanie on April 28, 2021, 05:22:59 PMThen Compulsion comes out and it's his most forceful and free statement to date.
Another Andrew Hill album of note, absolutely. I've been listening to the massive Mosaic set for the last month, which can be a little weird because of the sequencing. Most of his albums have alternate takes, but Compulsion did not. I was disappointed. As I read about this album, it reminded me of the politically and culturally charged
We Insist! Max Roach's Freedom Now Suite. Compulsion is far more heady, but you know, huge declarations. A true behemoth of an album. I maybe say this too often, but after this album, silence is best to follow.
I think my favorite so far this year is:
Roscoe Mitchell/Weasel Walter/Sandy Ewen/Damon Smith: A Railroad Spike Forms the Voice
These three are not intimidated by Roscoe's elder statesman status and are great at pushing him out of his comfort zone. One long track that never gets boring.
Also really dug Bill Orcutt & Chris Corsano: Made Out of Sound, though that was recorded separately and not live together in a room, and Bill even added a second guitar track of overdubs. But damn it's sweet.
Other killer performances that would qualify as archival however, but not heard before they were unearthed this year:
Cecil Taylor Quintet: Lifting The Bandstand (Cecil is always a no-brainer, and this really cooks)
Evan Parker Electro-Acoustic Ensemble: Warszawa 2019 (same with Evan)
Evan Parker Electro-Acoustic Ensemble & Sainkho Namtchylak: Fixing the Fluctuating Idea
I`ve been enjoying these lately:
Evan Parker - Monoceros
Milford Graves - Bäbi
Rauhan Orkesteri - S/T
...Monoceros might be one of the best sounding jazz recordings out there, stunning all the way. Parker is truly the Saxophone Colossus!
Quote from: Bruitiste on September 27, 2021, 08:47:38 PM
I think my favorite so far this year is:
Roscoe Mitchell/Weasel Walter/Sandy Ewen/Damon Smith: A Railroad Spike Forms the Voice
These three are not intimidated by Roscoe's elder statesman status and are great at pushing him out of his comfort zone. One long track that never gets boring.
Had not heard of this one - looking to check it out immediately
Quote from: holy ghost on November 15, 2021, 01:55:32 PM
Quote from: Bruitiste on September 27, 2021, 08:47:38 PM
I think my favorite so far this year is:
Roscoe Mitchell/Weasel Walter/Sandy Ewen/Damon Smith: A Railroad Spike Forms the Voice
These three are not intimidated by Roscoe's elder statesman status and are great at pushing him out of his comfort zone. One long track that never gets boring.
Had not heard of this one - looking to check it out immediately
Hope you enjoy. Roscoe's been surprisingly productive this year, but this is the one that stands out to me. Many of his other releases lately have been too sparse and quiet to my taste.
I saw him in Montreal a few years back - solo set the night before Anthony Braxton played. It was interesting but not something I'd go out of my way to see. I much prefer him in a band context. "Sound", "Old/Quartet" and "Congliptilous" are big favourites for me!
I missed that one but I've caught him at the FIMAV a couple of times in different contexts — and I was at that Braxton set at Suoni. I also prefer Roscoe when he's working in groups, the Art Ensemble of Chicago being the obvious benchmark, where I think he's done his best work.
the new Evan Parker record Winns Win, which was released last month, is really excellent. find it here: https://byrdout.bandcamp.com/album/winns-win (https://byrdout.bandcamp.com/album/winns-win)
Quote from: yullowteef on November 16, 2021, 02:45:48 AM
the new Evan Parker record Winns Win, which was released last month, is really excellent. find it here: https://byrdout.bandcamp.com/album/winns-win (https://byrdout.bandcamp.com/album/winns-win)
I'll second that rec, it's solid.
Pharoah Sanders - Karma
More like post-bop, but close enough so I`ll post it here.
Karma is really good. Especially the first track "Creator Has a Masterplan". Sanders has incredible touch with his tenors melodies on Karma. Sometimes soft and playable, sometimes fierce and full of soul. Lonnie L.Smith Jr.`s playing reminds me of Alice Coltrane in the way it dances and communicates. The percussion & bells are also a nod to Coltrane as well.
Peter Brötzmann / Fred Van Hove / Han Bennink - Balls
Relentless work by these three. Primitive and hypnotic. Full of these bomb-like eruptions of tension. Classic!
https://khthonios.bandcamp.com/album/flashes-in-the-danger-zone
(https://khthonios.bandcamp.com/album/flashes-in-the-danger-zone)
A new recording by Sensor.