I may have talked this elsewhere, or may have not. Always big fan of Organum, collabs with TNB was how I heard about it. At some point. Well, lets say that "always" is relative. I have the feeling of needing to get more of his works, but once in a while, when I actually decide to buy some of the brutally priced 7"s, is something like:
David Jackman - Laus 7"
3 minutes of classical music. Is it even his? Or just ripped somewhere? Or cut into new composition of something bigger? It's one sider basically. Same stamper used on both sides. So yeah, now when I check out Discogs, this is being asked from 15 to 27 euro. It's not like being victim of rip-off, but when one knows the unique level of the old Organum materials, I wonder where & when things started to fail? What of the material actually IS worth of 30 euro, and which ones you don't need even as freebies?
I liked the new Z'ev collaborations. But then something like Amen CD, what came out about same time felt like useless turd. And those 10"s with like 1 minute sample of classical music going on on on and on for like 7th time until you change side to hear same again. Or the 7"s with just machine gun shooting with as violent burst as grandfathers dick. I do like some concept art. I do feel that there are other means for recordings than simply entertain audience.... but.. Most often I feel that concept artists has no other concept than look how far they can go relying on reputation while producing crap. This seems like most popular mentality of art in modern world, what makes you miss the good old days when people like Jackman made his reputation to be what it is.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 14, 2009, 07:15:06 PM
I wonder where & when things started to fail?
Maybe when he, according to rumour, went deaf?
I grabbed a random Jackman / Organum cd off my shelf (well, I only have a few), Sanctus (Robot). I didn't really remember what this one was about. But it's very nice actually, droning organ, piano, some bells. Moves quite slowly but the movement is clearly there, it's not just a static hymn. Not minimalist, not ambient, I don't know what it should be called. The sound is sort of majestic, not really relaxing, more like uplifting. The disc consists of four variations on the theme, all quite similar, but not really the same. Hmm.. I think I really like this one.
It is possibly about the same as Amen CD.
Not really bad, but Amen I and II, variations of same, and you heard whole thing in about 3 minutes. I do admit it is probably meant for kind of mediation purposes. Or if not meant, at least suitable. I just can't feel the same thing in semi new age uplifting muzak sounding stuffl, with computer assembled loops. Compared to for example... "Vacant Lights". I feel there is difference in few things with few alternative mixes thrown on disc vs. proper album.
Yeah, the difference might be us coming from different perspectives. Instead of thinking about the short term sounds I tend to "feel" this over the longer duration (> 10 min). Like somehow it doesn't make even sense as one "variation". Or maybe I'm just full of it... whatever the case I'm glad this was a fairly cheap cd, not a 30 euro LP... Maybe I should be careful about liking these, I just can't afford to become a Jackman collector, heh.
Let's pick another one. A reissue of a tape from 1996, cd on Die Stadt. This one is called Verhalte Dich Ruhig and features what I think might be a photo from Auschwitch on its cover. Sound is not nazi boot stomping, however. It's layers of orchestral string music put together and overlaid in a slightly strange manner. At first it sounds just like a standard piece of somewhat cheesy, melodramatic orchestral string music. Nothing offensive, stuff that I can easily have playing in the background and not be annoyed. But then at some point a weird feeling takes over, something is not quite right. Somehow the superposition of the layers in done in such a way that the music acquires an eerie quality. I guess it's the way the loops are spliced together, the strings just keep on playing seamlessly. With this simple trick the music becomes something more than its basic ingredients, like it becomes dislocated from its origin. Ghost music from the past that never was?
Still, it's a bit of a novelty disc in the end, not a masterpiece by any means. Evening music after a busy day, probably best enjoyed with a glass of nice wine, heh.
I just heard this recently, and it made quite an impression on me.
David Jackman - Up from Zero 1982-1980 - "Up from Zero" may have become one of my favorite Jackman tracks - if anyone needs a soundtrack for a shaft mine collapsing, there they go - at 16 minutes in length, much longer than the average Jackman affair.
Quote from: heretogo on December 15, 2009, 09:23:06 PM
Somehow the superposition of the layers in done in such a way that the music acquires an eerie quality. I guess it's the way the loops are spliced together, the strings just keep on playing seamlessly. With this simple trick the music becomes something more than its basic ingredients, like it becomes dislocated from its origin.
For a few days I almost persuaded myself this was true - because I really really wanted it to be. Then reality set in.
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on December 16, 2009, 12:34:36 PM
For a few days I almost persuaded myself this was true - because I really really wanted it to be. Then reality set in.
Can you explain this a bit more?
I would assume it is the case, where you listen material and want to assume it has something special. You want to feel it is MORE than you actually hear, but in the end it seems less than you hear.
I have had same feeling on bands like Gerogerigegege. When you listen some of his "art" 7"s and even CD's, you listen to material and think, ok, I was simply fucked over. Then you think, there must be some bigger ideas here, and some value in sound you hear. But, is there? Like people don't want to be spanked and humiliated by everybody, but by some specific persons it's ok. I've come into conclusion that it's ok to be humiliated by Yuntaro, but not ok by Jackman. That's just personal preferance.
I think the big question with me, as someone who has never owned his original LPs, is: did he draw his original LP artwork, or is it simply collage from medical books or some kind of obscure British book collection?
Organum is flawless. Nothing to add that couldn't be better stated within the music itelf. I've never investigated "Jackman" solo works. Regardless of that, he's a king. I want to hear his "Scratch Orchestra" works, but who knows what I'll think. I'm content listening to him perform varying screeches and pseudo-ethnic ambient under the name Organum, but maybe someday I'll go a bit farther.
That brings up a point about collage in general. I see the laziest collages on noise tapes/releases. I don't know if I see more of it as an American, but if you see a random tape, even from a popular label, there's like an 80% chance it's going to look like they tore a few images out of the same magazines everyone else reads. Even collages of abstract patterns look the same.
Then you see something like that Organum LP you linked, and it's beyond anything. I wouldn't want someone to straight rip off Jackman(/Max Ernst) or start doing that kind of labor-intensive work just because it's "impressive", but it's a good sign when you see something and can't tell if it's an original drawing, a collage, both, or neither. I always knew he credited the art as "collage", but I thought maybe it was some weird British way of talking.
Sometimes "nonsense" art is good, like someone throwing random images on a piece of paper and letting the connections form naturally (if at all), but the dada type of justifications get old. I look at Jackman or Ernst and it's bizarre and unruly artwork, but it has structure and purpose. And you can hear that in Organum's music. That also sums up what I look for in experimental/noise music as a whole.... insane ideas with a classical appeal.
That Vacant Lights art reeks of Heemann...or Heemann reeks of it. (probably the latter)
To address some of the issues Mikko brought up, about artists relying on reputation and listeners giving them the benefit of the doubt. I do think it's a problem sometimes and we do allow ourselves to be "humiliated" from time to time, accepting crap sounds from big name artists. But for me personally it's also a question of the the bigger picture. Once I'm familiar enough with an artist the individual releases can work as pieces of the puzzle, not only as single statements that have to stand on their own. This is especially true if the artist has truly forged his/her own identity, something that nobody else does. There can be mystique involved, maybe some releases can be thought of as big jokes etc. And yes, in some cases the individual release can transcend from being "just" the sound recorded on the disc to something bigger/higher. Of course it's a line drawn in water, there can be very little difference between a turd and a diamond. And I guess if you start to go down that road you have to accept some humiliation at some point... heh.
In the case of Jackman, who else is producing stuff like him? Any new guys around that would churn out similar stuff and not get the recognition that Jackman does?
Quote from: heretogo on December 20, 2009, 11:28:35 AM
for me personally it's also a question of the the bigger picture. Once I'm familiar enough with an artist the individual releases can work as pieces of the puzzle, not only as single statements that have to stand on their own. This is especially true if the artist has truly forged his/her own identity, something that nobody else does.
This is actually very true. I do think, that sometimes bands may suffer from need to present "their style" or something in each release. I remember reading someone's interview back in 90's when he said that compilation tracks are the hardest ones to make, since you have to put all sides of your project into track to represent your work properly..... hmm. I was little confused back then, but I do realize that I have also done equal unconscious decisions. Thinking this track can be album track, where other material puts it into right context, but that it couldn't be 7" or compilation, since it would give "wrong" impression of band. This might be leading to case where albums seem "calculated". It's not just honest expression, but something processed with listeners reaction in mind. Some bands you never know what to expect. Their albums, singles, compilation tracks etc. all may sound different, but bigger picture reveals the nature of project. In that way albums may start to stand out better. It's not about repeating everything all the time, but some albums for some approach and other albums for other. Without lost identity.
From Organum, I think very recommended purchase for those who have not yet get to know with it, would be ORGANUM/TNB "pulp" CD. It has pulp 7", it has "wreck" 12", and more. While original vinyls would cost you perhaps 300,- or so to purchase from 2nd hand merchants, this CD is listed by multiple sellers at discogs for... 10-15 euro or something like that. And might be still available as new too? Bought my copy from Disc Union back in 2005 or something?
Maybe having tea time gave guys like Jackman more patience. Though I don't think you need patience or to spend months/years working on anything for it to matter. A problem is a lot of artists just reach a point where they're so established that they "rest on their character" for everything even as they fail, which is different from just exploring isolated ideas or being adventurous. A good artist to me isn't always in control of everything but at least he knows when "something's not right". It's like a friend who starts off telling a couple stupid jokes when he's drunk, then they never stop because you laughed out of respect the first time. I don't know how to avoid it...
SILVUM--Some of the other stuff is worth talking about though may be best for another topic in the art section or somewhere, but just look at the lists I made in on the noisefanatics board. The lists were half-comedy but all of that stuff is a symptom of failing. "Check one or more boxes and tally them up at the end for diagnosis"....
Missed this first time around.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 18, 2009, 08:46:14 PM
Quote from: heretogo on December 18, 2009, 07:26:52 PM
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on December 16, 2009, 12:34:36 PM
For a few days I almost persuaded myself this was true - because I really really wanted it to be. Then reality set in.
Can you explain this a bit more?
I would assume it is the case, where you listen material and want to assume it has something special. You want to feel it is MORE than you actually hear, but in the end it seems less than you hear.
What he said.
But let me say I'm in no way disparaging my prior enjoyment of the work. Just because I've decided that one assessment is more firmly planted in reality than the other does not mean it's more valid. I don't know much about reality, probably wouldn't know reality if it bit me in the ass. I'm not really interested in living in the "real world". Lack of interest in that kind of world is half of what fuels my passion for the more easily accessible, more apparently bullshit-saturated, world of sound. With that in mind, Verhalte Dich Ruhig may re-enter regular Slutbag rotation at any time.
Not sure this explains anything but it may partially excuse my prediliction for a little Spasticity every once in a while.
saw some news in tesco mailinglist about new organum stuff offering new approach. And old (was it 3rd?) Jackmann tape out now on CD.
Has David Jackman ever performed live? I don't believe I've ever seen anything about live performances, interviews, or photos (If he's never done any of those, that's GREAT!).
I like that "Ikon" 2x12" set; wish I hadnt traded/sold it. Nice art & sound. Kind of like the flute-thing & feedback. If mixed with the junkmetal, it'd be amazing.
I seem to remember seeing a listing in 1997 for Organum live at the Spitz Club in London.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 27, 2010, 10:03:11 AM
saw some news in tesco mailinglist about new organum stuff offering new approach. And old (was it 3rd?) Jackmann tape out now on CD.
I didn't see this on their site. Any details?
It was in "coming soon" section where upcoming titles are listed. I don't think they list such on website. I deleted the message already, so memories are pretty vague. Just remember that old tape re-issued what was originally self released on his label. And that new material with new approach coming too.
EDIT: Just realised that I didn't specify that I wasn't talking about Tesco release, but their newsletter about upcoming distributed titles. Don't remember which label was putting these out.
I searched for Tesco in my deleted messages and found it - it's a restock of "Up From Zero," I believe. There are still new copies floating around - maybe even from the label.
There is a upcoming new Organum CD called "Sorow" on Siren Records due now in March. We'll be getting some copies for the Segerhuva mailorder (which will open again soon). I don't expect it to be a noisy recording - more in line of the recent organ trilogy with an added bell and some other sounds (according to the press release).
Segerhuva now has copies in stock at the magnificent price of 18 EUR + postage a piece. Will update the mailorder with this and a bunch of other stuff very soon.
It features one long 42 minute track, continuing in the same vein as the last organ CDs now together with sitardrone, punctuated with occational bells and orchestral hornblows. Relaxing stuff and as the pressrelease said - very "global" in approach to sound sources. Don't expect anything noisy. The CD comes in a thick cardboard sleeve, as the old vinyl gatefolds, with VERY minimal artwork and information.
Damn. The quest for buying his releases blindly, without knowing what is coming, can have very nice results.
ORGANUM / DAVID JACKMAN "Penquins eat fish/Little Dark Wing" 7"
Robot Records rr-33
You think about the name and wonder could it be good? Well, risky investment of c. 10 euro and it was actually very nice.
A-side is more like modern day industrial music. It starts with the lo-fi drone sound, soon appears militaristic marching drum is perhaps more scottish wibe. Like beginning of the bag pipe atrocities. Heavy and colossal boat horn blows in accurate tempo, giving monumental feeling to snare drum march. Fast trumpet fanfares are kind of out of tempo perhaps, but mixed in distance. It's not drenched in reverb like they'd do on the uniform fetishist industrial scene, nor there is vocals, and also how does the title of track relate to sound, is unknown to me. But most importantly, it simply works. It's all about the obsessive loop process. And I won't complain about that in this case.
B-side is his solo works. It is extremely minimalistic piano. Basically two different chords, bounded slowly, between c. 5 seconds. Hard attack, which probably gets compressed by recording methods, and the tone of piano echoing with the natural style of this instrument. There is nothing else really in the composition. 2 chords are being played perhaps slightly over 2 minutes and in end of piece you hear the sound of penquin. Strength of piece is absolutely just the piano and format. Composition itself is nothing out of ordinary. But on side of 45rpm 7" with just the pure acoustic instrument with its natural sound. Well, it works.
Any elaborative comments on the new 7" ("Valentin") released on Equation of all labels? I haven't heard it and would consider buying it but need a few words from trustworthy sources first. Please, don't mention the price...
taken from Malignant, but not written by him...
"Organum - Valentin 7 inch (Equation Records: E=MC23)
233 numbered copies. Heavy matte picture sleeve plus matching card insert (both full CMYK). First vinyl release by Organum in over 7 years. It is hard to underestimate the importance and significance of Organum. David Jackman (the force behind the project) wishes the audio to speak for itself and prefers not to attempt to describe the contents of this release. However, it is worthy to note that the greatest possible care was made to every aspect of this release -- which was mastered at Prairie Cat Mastering, who provided the most clear and dynamic audio possible. A release worthy of inclusion in the extensive discography of Organum."
I had to laugh at that mastering part. Prairie Cat (previously known at Metropolis in Chicago) is one of the worst mastering joints in the USA. They're inexpensive, quick, and used by A LOT of labels...but that doesn't mean diddly-doo. I hate that guy's ear. If there is one mastering joint that knows how to suck the life right out of a recording, it is Prairie Cat. It isn't a 100% sure thing, but it happens often enough...too often.
I've been listening to Organum & David Jackman tonight and I was reminded again that, like stated in this thread before, Jackman's is a strange and unique sound world that I'll have to keep exploring. I'm very far from knowing most of his releases, and while I'm planning to buy more, what I'd especially be interested in is if he has any more releases in the vein of Organum/David Jackman's Penguins Eat Fish/Little Dark Wing 7" or the first track on Organum's Die Hennen Zähne 3" CD. These pieces are not in his usual droning style; instead they seem like single elements of very different kinds of music taken out of their original context and pasted together to create pieces that are surprising and unusual. Or they're little more than an idea, like side B of the aforementioned 7" (Mikko described this 7" very well in this thread), but they're simply great regardless. I love these pieces, so I'd like to read recommendations about further releases with this kind of approach. I love Jackman's more usual "metal droning" style too and have a number of Organum releases in that vein, but I imagine there are a few musical surprises among Organum's/Jackman's (and related, like A Mouse Orchestra and Lost Shadow) releases (especially perhaps the countless 7"'s?).
There's a Rarities and Unreleased 3CD out there. It's not official, but it makes hearing the short, expensive 7"s convenient. HERE (http://nostalgie-de-la-boue.blogspot.com/2014/06/david-jackman-organum-rare-unreleased.html) I think you can find it lossless, too.
Thanks a lot, I'm downloading it now.
(http://s.pixogs.com/image/R-91557-1361467529-4687.jpeg)
i've really appreciated "Tower of silence"
http://dieordiy2.blogspot.com/
They've been uploading original Jackman tapes in various groups. Same for original The New Blockaders tapes. I haven't cross-referenced anything with CD reissues, but my hunch is that anything on CD has been changed in some way. Might be worth hearing and having original cassette rips if you're really into this stuff, even if they're lossy.
Organum - Raven (CD, Siren Records)
The first Organum release in 8 years, and I think it's great. All the tracks are basically the same, but that doesn't detract from the album as a whole. The atmosphere is majestic and somber. The music is made up of two types of piano sounds, bells tolling and the sounds of ravens, and that's it. The album feels like a grand statement for which only a few elements were required and nothing else. That said, I can imagine some people would find it too minimalistic. If you like Organum's last couple releases before this one, you'll like this too (I actually like this album better than some of those).
I wonder if there will be more Organum/David Jackman releases in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't, but who knows.
Quote from: acsenger on December 02, 2018, 02:58:02 AM
Organum - Raven (CD, Siren Records)
The first Organum release in 8 years, and I think it's great. All the tracks are basically the same, but that doesn't detract from the album as a whole. The atmosphere is majestic and somber. The music is made up of two types of piano sounds, bells tolling and the sounds of ravens, and that's it. The album feels like a grand statement for which only a few elements were required and nothing else. That said, I can imagine some people would find it too minimalistic. If you like Organum's last couple releases before this one, you'll like this too (I actually like this album better than some of those).
I wonder if there will be more Organum/David Jackman releases in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't, but who knows.
Listened to two previews earlier today. Fucking christ, they're gorgeous. Culmination if you ask me. Will get this soon, perfect for reading or writing.
Oddly enough been taking a lot of field recordings of ravens and bells myself lately. Not that I believe in "synchronicity" or much of anything really but funny how life works out sometimes. Thanks for your review.
Raven is 13 tracks, all clocking at 3:21 or 3:27. Jackman has often made things suspicious like that. Frans de Waard wrote in his review, "In each of these pieces the same things happens, and I know I could rip all of these pieces and compare the pieces to see if they are really the same or perhaps they have miniature changes, but I didn't." So tempting, but I won't either. I'll just allow it to nag me. I'm not instantly taking to this disc like I did with Sorow, but I'll give it time. Jackman has earned that with me.
Spinning the Organum & TNB - Wrack (in 4 parts) 12" (Dom Bartwuchs, 1990) on repeat here. Although I love it in 45rpm, which is the speed stated on discogs and on the "official site" of Jackman, it sounds twice as good (and in these ears more natural) in 33rpm. The usual TNB wreckage going on, enveloped in huge Organum droning, a "hugeness" that gets a bit lost when played in 45rpm. Makes me wonder if the listed speed is actually accurate? I know it comes from Jackman himself, but still...
http://www.art-into-life.com/product/10641
!!!
Funny to see him going down the old nostalgia route, if so...
That sample has some depth...but I have to admit in thinking that, am I the fool? In the middle of a Brotzmann show, I found myself wondering the same thing. I'm enjoying this. Glad to be here. But then...is this guy doing anything? Is this "good"? Am I playing the fool in this exercise? I could wonder this same thing at any point, in any situation, experiencing anything at all, but some artists (maybe the good ones) cause me to question whether they're just fucking with us and exposing us. Jackman certainly strikes me this way.
New David Jackman CD on Die Stadt: http://www.diestadtmusik.de/DS123.html
It's interesting that after being completely inactive for 8 years, he's become so active in the past few years. I just got the new Electronics CD by Organum; looking forward to hearing it.
Quote from: Zeno Marx on October 22, 2014, 09:55:16 PM
There's a Rarities and Unreleased 3CD out there. It's not official, but it makes hearing the short, expensive 7"s convenient. HERE (http://nostalgie-de-la-boue.blogspot.com/2014/06/david-jackman-organum-rare-unreleased.html) I think you can find it lossless, too.
This link is still active for anyone interested, thank you many years later Zeno!
What link is that?
@Zeno, I have a 1 CD comp of a bunch of his material that's unofficial, has some WWI style pictures on the cover
http://nostalgie-de-la-boue.blogspot.com/2014/06/david-jackman-organum-rare-unreleased.html
It was linked in the text of Zeno's post, but here it is for easier access.
Seems to be a second CD (called "Stilness") out now on Siren under the Organum Electronics monicker - anyone heard it yet?
As much as I actually appreciated the s/t one on Siren I don't need another one if it's almost the same album...
Quote from: Fistfuck Masonanie on February 18, 2020, 01:26:44 AM
http://nostalgie-de-la-boue.blogspot.com/2014/06/david-jackman-organum-rare-unreleased.html
It was linked in the text of Zeno's post, but here it is for easier access.
thank you, I completely missed that.
the release I have is different, its a total bootleg I bought here maybe 12 or 13 years ago, its all the David Jackman 7" records...great content, but its just a jewel case with a printed out picture of a flipped over tank or transport vehicle in a trench, white CD-R with track listing. Well worth the 5 dollars since it was very informative to my twenty year old brain at the time.
Quote from: bogskaggmannen on September 01, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
Seems to be a second CD (called "Stilness") out now on Siren under the Organum Electronics monicker - anyone heard it yet?
As much as I actually appreciated the s/t one on Siren I don't need another one if it's almost the same album...
I got it today and have listened to it a couple times. It's not the same as the previous
Organum Electronics album, but it's similar (as expected). The unique-sounding electronics of the first album are still there (and they're very similar -- they might even be the same, but I won't bother comparing the two CDs to that extent), but there's an additional layer that changes nearly constantly. Overall this CD is like a more active, somewhat altered version of the first album. It's hard to say whether you should get it (for me, the changes are sufficient enough to appreciate both CDs), but if you're looking for something *very* different, then it's safe to say you shouldn't.
Since 2019, he's been rather busy. 4 albums under Organum Electronics (Siren Records). One album under Jackman (Die Stadt). One album under D Jackman (Die Stadt). The first Organum Electronics album, s/t, has three tracks, but the rest are single tracks. I haven't heard any of them in their entirety, and I only really knew of two of them existing. Gone are the days when Jackman releases something and you pretty much are guaranteed to hear about it? I'm assuming these are a focused project of a certain idea, despite being released under three different monikers? I liked the samples I heard. Machinated avant-garde classical minimalistic drone, or something of that nature.
mr jackman has created this huge Organum discography guide: http://www.chronoglide.com/Organum.pdf (http://www.chronoglide.com/Organum.pdf) nearly 400 pages with info, artwork scans, extensive notes, cross-references to things appearing in multiple places and so on. it's really impressive.
Wow, thanks for this link. I pulled out my Organum and related records and had a nice listening session while browsing through this. The early material is so great. I've been looking for most of the Aeroplane/Syntactic 7"s for years but they rarely show up and never for decent prices. The later 7"s on Die Stad are okay but all the tracks are short and often very similar. Not worth tracking them all down (pretty easy to find) unless you want a complete collection.