Hello, first post on this forum. Great forum. First I need to mention I am completely new to the genre of PE/NOISE/INDUSTRIAL and the like. Not listening, I've been a listener for years but recently have been inspired to have my hand at making the music myself. I am not new to making music in general, I am a guitar player and am pretty musically inclined. The bands/artists I am most heavily influenced and inspired by are Brighter Death Now, Genocide Organ, Lustmord, the "Time Machines" album by Coil, early Current 93, Mz.412, Puce Mary, etc. More droning, dark, and rhythmic works.
My question is, what are the essential equipment used for making this kind of sounds, and how is it done? I know I need a mixing board (suggestions on brand, models, etc), affects pedals, tape players, contact mics, drum machines, synths?
Basically I'm asking for the core components of where to start on assembling a set up and how to begin experimenting with it and making some sounds. And maybe some extras that could be added to mix. Thanks in advance.
you are opening the gates of hell with this first post eheh
there are no fundamental equipments nos fundamental laws. what counts is attitude and will to experiment. anything that makes sounds can be turned into good noises, suitable for any of these atmospheres.
each project you mention uses different kind of devices, both digital and analog and I am pretty sure every person involved in projects here on the forum would give you different opinions.
Personally I use synths (mostly from Korg and Arturia), boxes (dod, boss), some self built material and many instruments created by "artisans" (trogotronik, sirkut, leploop/lumanoise, kinetik laboratories, black death, bug brand, ecc), which are my fave also because they are those who makes the difference.
Regarding mixer I use two beringhers at home and a valvolar Kabortron in studio.
If you have space, make sure you get decent amps, especially if you want to do loud stuff. They make the difference.
anways there are several threads on single subjects you should check.
I think that everything that made a sound can do the job.
Be creative, or be the clone of the existing bands...
As has been said, there isn't fundamental equipment per se. My advice is, seek out the kind of sound _you_ like and enjoy. My personal guideline is to attempt to make the kind of tape I want to listen to, perfect pe for myself and choose methods based on that. Experiment with different techniques. Look at youtube videos showcasing different kinds of instruments/synths/programs and try to find the ones that suit you and your needs and liking. In the end, on personal level, making this kind of music isnt about pleasing audience, more about making the kind of material you personally enjoy and trying to find an angle that differentiates you from all the other bands (in the end, the reason, at least for me, to listen to new projects is because they do something different or have something else in their music than what others are doing.)
In principle I agree that anything that makes a sound could be used. Unlike in other genres, e.g., techno, where you probably need specific pieces of equipment (or their emulations) to get going, in this camp you have many more options. At the same time, saying "anything works" is a bit unhelpful if someone has no experience with electronic equipment.
A quick suggestion for a starter, given the influences you mention, would be a Korg MS-20 (the new version is inexpensive and sounds pretty good). A lot of people like the MicroBrute (which I tested and did not find particularly interesting) or the BassStation (I have the old 1990s one, but the new version sounds even better). In any case, for the sound you seem to be looking for, an analogue monosynth is key.
And a physical drum machine maybe. This does not have to be top-notch: even an old PCM machine like the Yamaha RY series, or a virtual analog (I particularly like the Korg ER-1), if combined with some pedals, can fulfill most of your needs.
As for pedals, a delay (I like the Mooer Analogue Delay pedal, great sounding and also inexpensive), possibly a reverb, and one or two distortion or overdrive pedals are enough for starters.
I second Marco's suggestion re: the mixers. Make sure to teach yourself, and understand well, the principles of no-input mixing, with pedals in the chain. Even if you don't want to use no-input mixing per se, feedback loops combined with inputs are key to get many of the sounds you might hear in PE and death industrial.
Quote from: cosmonaut on November 04, 2015, 03:18:31 PM
Mooer Analogue Delay
Blessed be Mooer!!! I am getting several of them... Also the Shimmer reverb is a good way to begin with on a budget. I am sure ina few months you'll find many of these for almost nothing.
I'm not asking for specific pedals and pieces of gear to use, just what the basics are that I need. What components are needed, or recommended. Not trying to rip anyone off of copy sounds.
Quote from: BlackHole on November 04, 2015, 05:55:09 PM
I'm not asking for specific pedals and pieces of gear to use, just what the basics are that I need. What components are needed, or recommended. Not trying to rip anyone off of copy sounds.
Quote from: cosmonaut on November 04, 2015, 03:18:31 PM
an analogue monosynth
a physical drum machine maybe
a delay
a reverb
one or two distortion or overdrive pedals
mixer (for feedback loops)
Quote from: tiny_tove on November 04, 2015, 04:28:31 PM
Quote from: cosmonaut on November 04, 2015, 03:18:31 PM
Mooer Analogue Delay
Blessed be Mooer!!! I am getting several of them... Also the Shimmer reverb is a good way to begin with on a budget. I am sure ina few months you'll find many of these for almost nothing.
I'll put the shimmer on the list of future acquisitions. Have you tried the pitch box?
nope, any good?
I am currently waiting for the bit cruncher, highly suggested by Corrado Uncodified.
Just do everything the wrong way.
Quote from: EXU on November 04, 2015, 10:21:23 PM
Just do everything the wrong way.
Here they come...how long before the juvenile crowds take over? This is not that noiseguide forum. Or at least I hope so.
Quote from: tiny_tove on November 04, 2015, 09:59:28 PM
nope, any good?
I am currently waiting for the bit cruncher, highly suggested by Corrado Uncodified.
Yes, the pitchbox is a game changer to a certain extent, especially in "detune" mode in FB loops. But also as harmonizer or plain pitch shift, I use it a lot after delay within the modular.
Corrado is totally obsessed with those pedals indeed, he was suggesting the black secret to me. But I think he's the kind of guy who has an individualized pedal suggestion for each one of us...
Thanks for some of the suggestions. Going to be making a few purchases soon
We used a washing machine running through a cycle once, sounded great for dark brooding sounds mic'ed up into a few pedals with a bit of reverb.
Quote from: cosmonaut on November 04, 2015, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: EXU on November 04, 2015, 10:21:23 PM
Just do everything the wrong way.
Here they come...how long before the juvenile crowds take over? This is not that noiseguide forum. Or at least I hope so.
Oh, sorry: you must use a synth.
Quote from: Leewar on November 05, 2015, 03:41:21 PM
We used a washing machine running through a cycle once, sounded great for dark brooding sounds mic'ed up into a few pedals with a bit of reverb.
I actually did this track recording my washing machine on a very strong tempest, and just added a little "hum droning" (made from a part of this own recording pitched down) on the background, if I remember correctly:
https://soundcloud.com/carrionblackpit/recording-found-stuffed-inside (https://soundcloud.com/carrionblackpit/recording-found-stuffed-inside)
But to the OP, you must start at the basic: You need an audio source.
It can be a tape/mp3/whatever recorder, radio static, an old keyboard, a synth, feedback from a mic or just the environment.
Starting with that you will need "tools" to manipulate the sound, be it pedals, filters or even the slow down function of the tape player.
What I say usually is that it's best if you start with what you have in hand, around, or can borrow. Some cheap mic, a distortion pedal and a multi-fx pedal will give you a lot to try and think about, so you can adapt your (initial) purchases around the sound you are after. You can also try working "in the box" with software to get the feel of it all.
But, if you want to buy something, aside from the audio source, get some delay for manipulating the sound, a distortion to mangle it and a reverb to give it cool ambiance. The Digidelay is cheap and gives you plenty of options of modes, it also loops 4 or more seconds. I have a Digiverb too that sounds ok and also have some modes to mess with. For distortion I would recomend something with some EQ controls, and the Boss MT2 is interesting because it has great EQ and heavy distortion, the usual suspects are DOD/Digitech Death Metal and Grunge because of their quality to really mangle the sound and achieve good high and low pitched dist.
It all also depends on the budget that you have.
Just try not to cripple yourself asking too much, searching too much info and experimenting/making too little, that's a problem with internet these days and I suffer a lot from it. The old guys didn't have that much knowledge (and bs) available so they made it all with what they could grab, they created their own methods, as obvious as it sounds, that's an approach that is easy to get lost with all the "internet experts" around.
Edit. I skipped the part where you said you are a guitarrist, so you may already have a lot of the "tools" necessary to start doing the sounds you are after. Also, the "early Current 93" sound is something I am pretty much into nowadays and thinking about getting a sampler may be more interesting than getting a synth for that matter. I didn't said anything about a mixer and they are very useful not only for recording various things at the same time and EQ/Volume controls, but also for making "feedback loops", something that can pretty much be used instead of synths.
If you don't have a mixer right now you can record your stuff and layer on a program like Reaper (free for evaluation) or Audacity (free), they are useful for that and also editing/mixing/mastering.
Quote from: EXU on November 05, 2015, 04:48:14 PM
Quote from: cosmonaut on November 04, 2015, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: EXU on November 04, 2015, 10:21:23 PM
Just do everything the wrong way.
Here they come...how long before the juvenile crowds take over? This is not that noiseguide forum. Or at least I hope so.
Oh, sorry: you must use a synth.
Try to read what I actually wrote, and don't impute to me things I never wrote.
I never said you "must" use a synth.
I do believe that telling a newcomer "just do everything the wrong way" is pointless and juvenile. There are hundreds of similar posts in the blue forum: someone asks "how do I start making noise" and tons of juvenile too-smart-by-halves replying "just do it wrong" and the like.
And let me expand on this a bit. Look at what bands/projects make the "best of the year" lists in this forum. I see a lot of mentions of professional-quality productions like Am Not and Kevlar, hyper-technical work like IFOTS, complicated sound-creation and layering like Grunt, tasteful exploitation of the limitations of obsolete equipment like in Alfarmania, and very few (or none) of these people who "do everything the wrong way".
And, on a more philosophical level: stating one has to do things "the wrong way" is assuming there is a "right way" of doing things. Much less rebellious than it seems, right?
Quote from: cosmonaut on November 05, 2015, 05:12:48 PM
Try to read what I actually wrote, and don't impute to me things I never wrote.
I never said you "must" use a synth.
I do believe that telling a newcomer "just do everything the wrong way" is pointless and juvenile. There are hundreds of similar posts in the blue forum: someone asks "how do I start making noise" and tons of juvenile too-smart-by-halves replying "just do it wrong" and the like.
And let me expand on this a bit. Look at what bands/projects make the "best of the year" lists in this forum. I see a lot of mentions of professional-quality productions like Am Not and Kevlar, hyper-technical work like IFOTS, complicated sound-creation and layering like Grunt, tasteful exploitation of the limitations of obsolete equipment like in Alfarmania, and very few (or none) of these people who "do everything the wrong way".
And, on a more philosophical level: stating one has to do things "the wrong way" is assuming there is a "right way" of doing things. Much less rebellious than it seems, right?
I guess the OP laid down very nicely his intents on what kind of sound he is after (Coil, Lustmord, Genocide organ, old Current 93) and looking at the "best of 2015" thread is pointless in that sense, I disagree that having the spirit of "doing things wrong" is juvenile, to me it keep things interesting and it is what experimenting represent on a basic level (and it is what "guided" the OP mentioned acts, even in a loose sense).
I did not manipulate any of the things you wrote, I just made a joke (sorry if that's juvenile to you).
Yes, there is an assumed "right way" of doing music/recording/etc (see "mainstream music for reference) and it's because artists started doing it the "wrong way" that we have industrial/noise/PE... And that it all can come full circle and start adopting more widely "accepted" techniques.
That being said, I guess my point of view upsets you too much and this parallel discussion is, perhaps, derailing the thread, so I guess we can agree on disagree.
Quote from: cosmonaut on November 04, 2015, 11:11:30 PM
Yes, the pitchbox is a game changer to a certain extent, especially in "detune" mode in FB loops. But also as harmonizer or plain pitch shift, I use it a lot after delay within the modular.
Corrado is totally obsessed with those pedals indeed, he was suggesting the black secret to me. But I think he's the kind of guy who has an individualized pedal suggestion for each one of us...
In fact, he suggested the black secret, but I already had the pro co rat that does the same. But as soon I discovered the delay and, especially, the reverb they became mine in no time.
I will try some of them soon. Local shop gets them on regular basis. http://www.langolomusicale.it/ (don't get scared by the images on the homepage, they are the local Korg/arturia dealer, and one of the guys is into noise, if you want to take be my guest at lunch one day we can go there).
Thanks for the suggestions. Also what kind of amps are usually used? I'd imagine probably a keyboard amp or a guitar amp. I could even imagine just using a PA speaker would work fine.
Quote from: BlackHole on November 06, 2015, 07:11:38 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. Also what kind of amps are usually used? I'd imagine probably a keyboard amp or a guitar amp. I could even imagine just using a PA speaker would work fine.
As with everything, different amps for different results. Bass amp is good for crushing low-end brutality, guitar amp can be good for more ripping feedback. Guitar amp is probably a good choice for general use. Just try them out yourself and see what suits you the best. I prefer transistor, as tube amps tend to get damaged more easily when blasting noise on high volumes.
Quote from: BlackHole on November 06, 2015, 07:11:38 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. Also what kind of amps are usually used? I'd imagine probably a keyboard amp or a guitar amp. I could even imagine just using a PA speaker would work fine.
In studio I use a Peavy Bass amp.
I read that we suggest you one analog synth.
You don't really need it, you have no idea how much "big projects" don't have one. ;)