Like many morons who didn't bother to protect their ears in their teens, I suffer from (a rather mild) tinnitus. Since I've been having sort of a Harsh Noise Wall spell lately, I've noticed something interesting. After listening to, say, Vomir for an extended period of time, the ringing sound will be severely modified once I turn the music off. It can acquire a pulsing quality and become a little bit louder, before fading away and becoming the same rather muted, high pitched beep which it usually is. I noticed the exact same thing just now, after listening to Sleep Columns "Damien" wall. I've never really noticed anything similar with other forms of music, but maybe I just haven't thought about it.
Since I saw in some other thread that there's a few other people on this board who hear the ole' rock'n roll permaflute when things get too quiet, I wonder if you recognize this phenomenon, or something similar?
Had tinnitus on and off since I was a teen- only get it bad after gifgs now, so it seems to be triggered by volume not sound types at least for me.
I am just glad my ears arent broken yet. My ear canals are fucked up and normal plugs wont fit and cant afford the special ones either. Living on the edge.
This is a known therapy for tinnitus, called noise masking. Supposedly the noise offsets the ringing enough for relief. It's not extremely effective but some clinical research people have turned their tinnitus down with pink and white noise.
I don't really get tinnitus anymore, but I do get this weird flanging effect on high frequencies if I did something loud.
have been affected by tinnitus since several years. this is the reason I no longer play live/attend gigs.
it improved a lot in the past few years, but last year it started getting bad again. my right ear lost several frequencies and they won't come back.
it started due to somebody throwing a firecracker at me, then worsened at a sick of it all gig, then it passed after a couple of years until it got very bad due to the tires of a train that was slowly approaching the railway station.
to record I use Alpine ear plugs and I have no problems with them, but it is still annoying.
Tiny Tove, do you know about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9ni%C3%A8re%27s_disease ?
I saw an ENT specialist today for a check-up. I've had mild tinnitus for a long time but I managed to live with it so far, although it can get annoying at times. We did a hearing test (he didn't want to tell me what he used to make those weird sound modulations that sounded really cool) and he told me I had a severe hearing loss and that once it'll start disturbing me seriously, I should get some hearing aid devices. I should also get special earplugs made for my ears because I play live quite often. I'm about to turn 31, I feel a bit too young for this shit (although I've noticed that I make people repeat a lot and that I can't distinguish anything when more than 2 people are talking at the same time.)
I have got very mild, constant tinnitus on both ears, but it's not the thing thats bother me: I think I got more sensitive to lower human speaking sounds, then the really harsh ones. So basically, I barely can stand some people, animal sounds, even if its not as loud as a mechanical, or PA noise. I think its more anout the dynamics but the frequencies.
Yeah I have the tinnitus.
People can say what they want, but I can never perform with plugs in. And that has put me at the mercy of dozens of inept soundguys. Yes I like it loud, that doesn't mean I want the midrange 10Db louder than the bass and treble.
It also does not help to play drums.
I'm waiting on cochlear implants a la Ghost in the Shell.
Noise masking only works for a little while.
I used to have severe problems in both ears, but it has gone much more mild. Not only tinnitus in form of high pitched "sin-tone" type of whistle, but also issues with pressure, additional humming, clicks and snaps and such. Over sensitivity to sound. Not even loud sounds, but sounds in general. Any sudden sound could result "shock reaction", being as small as assembling jewel boxes.
However, during few years and being careful with loud situations, it got better and it's no longer disturbingly strong.
Few things what I have learned and read about tinnitus, is that for some people, it is also very much physical issue. Even as simple as neck-muscle tension. If tinnitus is simply the one specific frequency ringing in your ears, I believe there has been successful ways of helping it with adding graphic EQ to stereo system, muting the ringing frequency totally and playing music through-out the night. Theory of some of tinnitus being more of brain related trauma has been proven by this. Brain slowly adjusts traumatized frequency may heal. More simple physical side may be even more clear. Delicate ears damaged merely be sitting hours and hours at shitty deck job. Even with zero noise involved.
as mentioned, things got serious for me after being too close to train tyres...
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 22, 2016, 09:48:46 PM
I used to have severe problems in both ears, but it has gone much more mild. Not only tinnitus in form of high pitched "sin-tone" type of whistle, but also issues with pressure, additional humming, clicks and snaps and such. Over sensitivity to sound. Not even loud sounds, but sounds in general. Any sudden sound could result "shock reaction", being as small as assembling jewel boxes.
I have all of this that you mention, and have done for six years now. The pressure in my ears came directly from a plane landing, the usual sensation people have but it never went away. Went to an ear specialist last year but that wasn't very fruitful. This issue came just a couple of months after getting permanent tinnitus. It was a pretty shitty double whammy it has to be said.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/07/human-hearing-loss-could-be-reversible/491777/?utm_source=atltw
This is why I wish I could pump music directly into my brain, I get so worried about my hearing. I actually haven't been listening to noise much lately because I actually did start getting minor tinnitus. I'd get a clicking in my ear at any sudden loud sharp sound. I stopped listening to music that much for a while though, and lately it's gone away which is fucking great because I'm pretty young, too young to get hearing damage.
Quote from: Dr Alex on July 20, 2016, 01:27:27 PM
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/07/human-hearing-loss-could-be-reversible/491777/?utm_source=atltw
Yes please. I'd love to get back the hearing I used to have.
When I was a lot younger I could hear all kinds of harmonics and high frequencies. I'm pretty sure I had better than normal hearing. But of course I abused it with loud amps and playing drums.
Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on May 21, 2016, 03:04:22 AM
Tiny Tove, do you know about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9ni%C3%A8re%27s_disease ?
I saw an ENT specialist today for a check-up. I've had mild tinnitus for a long time but I managed to live with it so far, although it can get annoying at times. We did a hearing test (he didn't want to tell me what he used to make those weird sound modulations that sounded really cool) and he told me I had a severe hearing loss and that once it'll start disturbing me seriously, I should get some hearing aid devices. I should also get special earplugs made for my ears because I play live quite often. I'm about to turn 31, I feel a bit too young for this shit (although I've noticed that I make people repeat a lot and that I can't distinguish anything when more than 2 people are talking at the same time.)
As one that actually does have Meniere's Disease, I often wonder if that wasn't what drove me to noise in the first place. Some sounds (like thumping bass, for example) are intolerable for me, while noise is a soothing reprieve from the general sounds of the world. I could do without the bouts of vertigo, and I likely am steadily damaging my hearing with harsh noise, but it sure feels like medicine to me - hence "Prescription-Strength Noise".
Shouldn't p.e. feedback be extremely harmful to the ears and cause tinnitus? I've noticed that as soon as I hit play on some feedback dominated tapes such as SJ my ears start making additional feedback sounds which stay with me for a while (or maybe I just stop noticing for a while).
Any thoughts on this?
Quote from: Thor on December 02, 2018, 12:47:46 PM
Shouldn't p.e. feedback be extremely harmful to the ears and cause tinnitus? I've noticed that as soon as I hit play on some feedback dominated tapes such as SJ my ears start making additional feedback sounds which stay with me for a while (or maybe I just stop noticing for a while).
Any thoughts on this?
Likely tinnitus. Pretty straightforward really. Quick look at Wikipedia will tell you all you need to know:
QuoteTinnitus is the hearing of sound when no external sound is present.[1] While often described as a ringing, it may also sound like a clicking, hiss or roaring.[2] Rarely, unclear voices or music are heard.[3] The sound may be soft or loud, low pitched or high pitched and appear to be coming from one ear or both.[2] Most of the time, it comes on gradually.[3] In some people, the sound causes depression or anxiety and can interfere with concentration.[2]
Tinnitus is not a disease but a symptom that can result from a number of underlying causes.[2] One of the most common causes is noise-induced hearing loss.[2] Other causes include ear infections, disease of the heart or blood vessels, Ménière's disease, brain tumors, emotional stress, exposure to certain medications, a previous head injury, and earwax.[2][4] It is more common in those with depression.[3]
The diagnosis of tinnitus is usually based on the person's description.[3] A number of questionnaires exist that may help to assess how much tinnitus is interfering with a person's life.[3] The diagnosis is commonly supported by an audiogram and a neurological examination.[1][3] If certain problems are found, medical imaging, such as with MRI, may be performed.[3] Other tests are suitable when tinnitus occurs with the same rhythm as the heartbeat.[3] Rarely, the sound may be heard by someone else using a stethoscope, in which case it is known as objective tinnitus.[3] Spontaneous otoacoustic emissions, which are sounds produced normally by the inner ear, may also occasionally result in tinnitus.[6]
Prevention involves avoiding loud noise.[2] If there is an underlying cause, treating it may lead to improvements.[3] Otherwise, typically, management involves talk therapy.[5] Sound generators or hearing aids may help some.[2] As of 2013, there were no effective medications.[3] It is common, affecting about 10–15% of people.[5] Most, however, tolerate it well, and it is a significant problem in only 1–2% of people.[5] The word tinnitus is from the Latin tinnīre which means "to ring".[3]
If you are finding that your ears seem unusually 'sensitive' to certain frequencies, that would be called Hyperaccusis. I think one thing that people aren't aware of is the dB/SPL is a logarithmic scale and so not only does a 'safer' exposure time decrease as dB increases, but it decreases
exponentially. By NIOSH/OSHA standards, above 120 dB, one second of exposture is considered 'safe' lol.
I'm due for a pretty thorough (up to 20 kHz) audiometric exam next month as a requirement of the program I am currently enrolled in studying sound, and I can't say that I am eager to get the results. Have suffered with tinnitus for a long time and am pretty positive it is accompanied by some HF loss, probably around 12-16 kHz. :(
What I mean is whether tinnitus is inevitable if you listen to this type of music a lot?
Quote from: Thor on December 02, 2018, 07:32:19 PM
What I mean is whether tinnitus is inevitable if you listen to this type of music a lot?
Going to gigs without ear protection, recording/rehearsing/playing it yourself without similar protection or listening to it on an Mp3 player over headphones for longer periods and over years etc. etc. I would say 100% yes. I know few people, myself included, who still find it difficult to remember to bring earplugs to a gig.
Think of the tiny hairs inside (stereocilia) of your ear like a patch of grass. You could lay a heavy stone on the grass for a few hours, remove the stone and come back the next day to see that the grass has righted itself etc. But if you left the stone there for a week the grass underneath is probably going to die. Ears are resilient to a point, but once those little hairs die, they're not ever coming back. Tinnitus is a symptom of hearing damage, not really a condition on it's own.
Human ear is also most sensitive to frequency range of around 2-5 kHz. Go ahead and plug some frequencies in that range into a signal generator and tell me it doesn't remind you of an SJ tape. Yer fucked, bud. There is no hope.
25 years of playing in bands, going to shows and wearing headphones has fucked my ears and I definitely notice a ringing, but over the last 10 years I've been really responsible in wearing earplugs when playing music - I also feel like there's a certain amount of psychological response to it - I remember occasionally finding it would bother me to the point not being able to focus on other stuff, and more often than not (99% of the time) being able to tune it out - I remember reading on the Wikipedia page that people do cognitive behavioural therapy for tinnitus - which shows that if it's truly bothersome it can be minimalized.
I know that for example I was jamming with my noisecore band the other night and I was the only one wearing earplugs - and I know that at one point my headphones broke and I borrowed a really shitty pair from my wife and the ringing became exponentially worse. I dunno, it's hard to be objective about your own hearing....
Quote from: Thor on December 02, 2018, 07:32:19 PM
What I mean is whether tinnitus is inevitable if you listen to this type of music a lot?
It's inevitable if you listen to any live music at all a lot without hearing protection.
In a live environment it really depends on the sound system and how its set up.
Went to a gig once in Birmingham that had screaming high frequencies, left me fucked up for days and I had ear plugs in most of the night.
A well tuned club system (and knowledgeable sound guy) can still be loud and clear, leaving no undesirable effects.
Quote from: Soloman Tump on December 03, 2018, 03:55:16 PMA well tuned club system (and knowledgeable sound guy) can still be loud and clear, leaving no undesirable effects.
This is a great point of discussion. I used to see a band with an infamous, and industry advancing, sound crew. Their shows were so loud that you had to scream at the person next to you to have an exchange. Nothing new or unusual. That's live music. Yet, when I walked out of the venue, I had no hearing fatigue or after-effects. Granted, it was a type of music that lent to that ability to be stadium-concert-loud and also without much distortion, but it was a lesson [to me] that high volume didn't necessarily have to mean the destruction of hearing. And both the high fidelity and no dangerous distortion was awesome from a pure listening standpoint. I wear earplugs all the time, even when working with power tools. I always have a set on me. I take zero chances. I didn't have to wear earplugs with that band.
Quote from: holy ghost on December 03, 2018, 04:16:55 AM
...I also feel like there's a certain amount of psychological response to it - I remember occasionally finding it would bother me to the point not being able to focus on other stuff, and more often than not (99% of the time) being able to tune it out - I remember reading on the Wikipedia page that people do cognitive behavioural therapy for tinnitus - which shows that if it's truly bothersome it can be minimalized.
This is also interesting. At some point, it does necessarily follow that it becomes a psychological battle. There's no other choice. The physical is damaged. The cognitive has to compensate. I would imagine that to be a difficult thing. Constant concentration and focus. True labor.
Quote from: holy ghost on December 03, 2018, 04:16:55 AM
...I also feel like there's a certain amount of psychological response to it - I remember occasionally finding it would bother me to the point not being able to focus on other stuff, and more often than not (99% of the time) being able to tune it out - I remember reading on the Wikipedia page that people do cognitive behavioural therapy for tinnitus - which shows that if it's truly bothersome it can be minimalized.
This is also interesting. At some point, it does necessarily follow that it becomes a psychological battle. There's no other choice. The physical is damaged. The cognitive has to compensate. I would imagine that to be a difficult thing. Constant concentration and focus. True labor.
[/quote]
Just chiming in regarding something slightly off-topic but kind of related. I'm going deaf and recently got hearing aid, after needing it for years but not being able to afford it. I do have some ringing in my ears as well at times. Anyway, going deaf has been physically hard to bear for me because my job requires to talk with people 8 hours a day. Without hearing aid my brains worked harder to do simple things, concentrating so hard for so long gave me massive headaches, and social interaction with people got increasingly difficult because I just couldn't hear anything when more than 2 people talked at once, which led me to avoid social interaction in order to avoid a constant blur of unintelligible nothingness that amounted to nothing useful or pleasant to me. Now I feel much better.
Cognitive fatigue is no joke. For instance, in general, the brains of people with dyslexia use 5Xs more energy when reading and doing tasks that involve the dyslexia. It's not unusual for the dyslexic to need sleep after reading etc. Other parts of their brain have compensated and picked up the slack, and that significant additional energy use literally exhausts them. I would assume it is similar with the blind, deaf, etc. Anytime the brain has to move work to another area, or areas, of the brain. The brain is a machine and can demand a lot of energy to do its work.
I used to think my tinnitus was caused by heavy gig going without wearing earplugs, but recent tests have shown my hearing is very good for my age and the specialist thinks my tinnitus is genetic. she said there is no clinical evidence to prove this, but based on what she has seen over the years in clinical practice there have been enough cases for her to think there is a link.
My tinnitus got a lot worse last year to the point where it affects my health and I find I can't listen to noise music anymore. The white noise generators the hospital gave me don't help either. I have, however, found that field recordings help, so its a steady diet of Dave Philips and Francisco Lopez for the last few months.
Quote from: Kayandah on February 15, 2019, 09:45:52 AM
I used to think my tinnitus was caused by heavy gig going without wearing earplugs, but recent tests have shown my hearing is very good for my age and the specialist thinks my tinnitus is genetic. she said there is no clinical evidence to prove this, but based on what she has seen over the years in clinical practice there have been enough cases for her to think there is a link.
My tinnitus got a lot worse last year to the point where it affects my health and I find I can't listen to noise music anymore. The white noise generators the hospital gave me don't help either. I have, however, found that field recordings help, so its a steady diet of Dave Philips and Francisco Lopez for the last few months.
that's definitely in my "biggest fears" category. glad you found something that helps!
Mine is mild enough to not disturb me too much, but years of of exposure to loud, distorted music has of course given me some damage. I often have to ask people to speak up in conversation, especially with any background noise going on. It's a bit worse after exposure to loud sounds even with ear protection, so i just mask it with some spoken-word radio or podcast/audiobook at a soft volume. Some music with a more non-abrasive sound works too.
Will have to try some of the sound-based therapies some of you mentioned when i can be arsed to. The quirks of hearing cognition are a very interesting thing, should make for interesting experiments at least.
That constant sound In your ear, reminds me some times of a sea shell that you'd put do to your ear as a kid.
Would be nice if it would go away like when you move the shell away.
It's funny if your busy you don't notice the ringing , some times I think I'm cured but only have to stop what I'm doing to notice the sea shell sound is still buzzing away.
Makes it hard being in a noise act especially when I'm in the studio with head phones on. You just want it full bore so you can pick up on all the shit going on.
Total pain in the ass and live shows like someone already said it's no fun wearing ear plugs when you play live.
I find it no fun playing live WITHOUT earplugs. I wear them all the time. I even wear them when my girlfriend vacuums the house (the noise it makes disturbs me so much I have to leave the room that's being vacuumed whenever we do some cleaning.) I play live a lot, do a lot of band practices as well with loud amps, be them as a drummer, bass player or behind a set of electronic devices, and I yell at my bandmates if they start playing when I don't have my earplugs on. Without them, it really becomes painful for me to make music. I think it's a matter of frequencies.