Thinking about it since the Merzbow topic. I like them but I sometimes wonder if they are the best format for Noise/PE/etc. releases. Maybe I need to pick up a few more to really make up my mind, but until then, any thoughts would be appreciated on
- if people think they work for the genre or not, and
- which are the better/worst ones they know of.
7"s are still my all time favourite format. the 'portable' size, the fact that it's vinyl - everything just adds up nicely.
i don't consider my collection of an artist 'complete' until i have a 7" from them.
if i had to pick one format to still have a collection - it would definitely be the 7"s.
a lot of the HN 7" material translates nicely to the format with shocking violence and/or a chaptered and heavily SELECTED manner to the the material.
Outside of Bastard Noise, I maybe have 10-15 noise 7"s...10-15 too many noise 7"s. Don't care for the format AT ALL for noise or any of the other experimental derivatives. I have a few I enjoy, but I wish they were a side of an LP or a couple tracks on a CD...or just about anywhere else than on a 7".
i like the format, it's fun to spend the afternoon playing 7"s,....i don't mind to flip them around all the time, while other people seem to hate that.
i think there's some essential stuf on 7" out here, early Ant-Zen, Con-Dom series, Xn, not to kiss asses but Freak Animal as great stuff on 7", Self Abuse rec, even some on Bloodlust! are darn good....
I like the 7" format quite a bit. When used properly they are little gems worth treasuring. When used carelessly becomes a complete waste of time and resources.
One of the best things is to find some very cheap, completely obscure 7" from the 70s/80s/90s and discover small bits of brilliance engraved in its grooves. A bit like walking down the street late at night and finding something intriguing discarded next to the garbage bins... Something that feels completely disconnected from the present time & place.
The best 7"s are usually either the ones with very elaborate packaging or the ones with almost none at all.
I can say that 7" is belong easily among my preferred & favorite formats. I have perhaps roughly 1000-1500 7"s, where c. 1/3 is noise and related. 1/3 is punk and related and 1/3 is metal.
I worship labels like DRONE RECORDS, Xn, AWB, (EARLY!) BLOODLUST, MSNP (who besides tapes, did pretty much just 7"s), and so on. Or MSBR with their lathe cut 7"s in extreme packages.
I like idea of 4-10 minutes of music per side. Most often less than 15 minutes. It allows good PE track, good dynamic noise track and many of "post industrial" to really show what its about. (For styles of punk, hc, grind, noisecore 7" is unbeatable.)
Ambient and wall of noise gets trickier. When you clearly hear that this isn't really the "piece"/ "song" what artist had in mind, but it's cut out of longer piece which could have beeded 20 minutes to really start becoming something.
I have no problem with sound of 7". I aknowledge limitations of format, but I also know that big part of fucked up weak sounding 7"s is because of incompetent labels themselves who haven't bothered to find out how long track, what kind of sound, can you push CD style maximized all frequencies at once with wides stereo bass explosions etc on the slab...
I usually listen 7"s by mood. This means, that there may pass days that I don't listen to 7"s, but focus on tapes or LP's/CD's. But then I just choose pile of 30 x 7" and start going through them. Not sitting back and relaxing, reading books or something, but your attention is pretty much in the recording you hear.
Only thing what I dislike, is the all the time growing manufacturing costs and as result of it, wholesale & retail costs. My friend also present on this board, I think ordered 250x 7" and with white labels and no cover, the bill so far was over 900 euro (incl. shipping & tax). Think about whatever folded xerox cover, decent royalties given etc, unit price is 5 euro each. (that's 6-7$). So don't wonder why FA 7"s too cost 8 euro with tax.. Most of them have also offset printed covers.
Some of favorite noise/pe/experimental 7"s
FINAL SOLUTION "Do as you're told" 7"
INTRINSIC ACTION "groupies" 7"
CON-DOM - all! See Con-Dom topic for more details
GENOCIDE ORGAN -Klan Kountry 7"
RAMLEH -hand of glory 7"
WHITE HOUSE "ankles & kness" 7"
BIZARRE UPROAR / MITB 7"
STROM.ec glass cage 7"
MSBR/MERZBOW 7"
GEROGERIGEGEGE -pretty much all 7"s, but More Shit, Yellow Trash Bazooka, Mother Fellatio first in mind
VIVENZA 7"
GREY WOLVES 7" (pic 7" is not so hot, but still ok)
and list could go on and on with progressing soon to less "obvious"
For some reason I really like 7" for fast cut-up style stuff - first Etant Donnes, Ground Zero's Peking Opera.
I see both the pros & cons. Some of my favorites are on 7" as well and like Mikko touched on, it basically forces me to give a dedicated listen, usually within a few feet of the stereo. My only "con" is the price. I do understand the money involved to produce them. It just makes me a lot more selective in my purchases.
I think the most what I have ever paid for 7" is c. 40 euros. This is for Vivenza 7" and Unkommunity 7". I guess that's about the ultimate maximum where I stretch my wallet. That being said, both of these 7"s I would rate much higher value when considering amount of playtime they can take.
When I got the Vivenza 7", I had trouble of getting it removed from my turntable. Any time I thought should I listen something else, I though, ...nah, lets spin it one more time. I'm nearly afraid to put that 7" or the 12" on my turntable, since I think I'll have difficulties to take them away. For LP, I listen it once or twice and file it back to shelves. So 7" you can listen 10 times a day and not get enough vs. LP you listen once..... Which is worth of 15.. 20... 30.. 40 euros? It's very relative question. I rather pay for stuff I listen to. And many of 7"s get listened more than CD's. 7" can be price of CD and it's still a great deal to me. Multiple listens also open up the sound more and more (= if recording is actually good, that is). 7" as format is hard to make amazing & representative, but at the same time easy to really sink into and experience throughly with repeated listens.
Concept of "hit single" is perhaps unnecessary in case of "noise" or "experimental music", but I still kind of like the idea. That talented artist may do short culmination of their talent which doesn't get old.
From my own works, I value pretty highly stuff like Grunt "Dead Beauty", Nicole 12 "braces" and so on. If they'd be tried to expand into full album format, it could not work as well as 7" did.
Oh I have no problems shelling out the cash if I know it's worth it, and also being the anal collector. I paid around $100 for Klan Kountry. But for random everyday noise squirt, no thanks.
Ah.."Dead Beauty", that's one of my favorite Grunt tracks. I've heard it several times but sadly don't own it myself.
Quote from: Plague Haus on December 31, 2009, 09:42:08 PM
I paid around $100 for Klan Kountry.
Paid 50 euros for mine and lost it almost straight away. Or so I thought. It was hidden in a "safe" compartment in my rucksack for a couple of weeks. Great releif when it turned up.
I had decided not to do any more 7"s on Unrest but then some very interesting projects presented themselves so I will do at least another two. Based on the cost of pressing them I will have to charge close to the price of a normal CD. It's shitty but that's the reality of 7"s now.
Will release couple of 7"s 2010. Love the format. When started to be interested in UG stuff. 7" was THE format. Kids were at summerjobs and autumn everybody released 7".
Now when production cost is almost same as LP. Have to put only the very very best material to wax.
Something like uber hit track from SNUFF or something heh!
what I appreciate about the 7" is the concentration of quality... with the costs of printing it, it's unreasonable to release a 7" not filling it with prime material. in the words of someone in the norwegian BM scene, ""Rather one SUPREME 7"EP than 2 good albums". the symmetry and compactness of the format is lovely. but besides saying that, I can't do much more than repeat what has already been said... though I'm not much of a 7" buyer, because of a certain lack of economy and decent record player.
Quote from: pestdemon on January 02, 2010, 05:46:16 PM
what I appreciate about the 7" is the concentration of quality... with the costs of printing it, it's unreasonable to release a 7" not filling it with prime material.
That's a nice theory, but do you really think thats how it happens? I haven't found it to be the case more so than with any other format. I see 15-minute CDs, but that material is no more likely to be better than some of the material on a CD of 60 minutes.
prime material...the idea that an artist has any sense of that on a consistent basis isn't very likely for the vast majority of artists out there.
I remember commenting a while back that folk were recording stuff on 7"'s that were simply extracts from longer pieces and therefore were redundant as 7" records. Lull springs to mind and their/his "Time" box set. The 7" format should be embraced by the artiste(s) and the track should be made for that format. Using extracts from longer pieces - the single just becomes an advert.
I love the 7" format and is the predominate format in my collection.
My favourite noise stuff is on 7" - likes of Haters, Merzbow and Government Alpha. The format fits these groups like a glove!
Big shame Drone Records has ceased with the 7" release.
I think the extract thing is pretty typical for.. lets say the "american noise". I mean, when I think of it, majority of releases sound like cut of longer piece. It's similar situation for harsh noise as well as more "free noise". And I think most recently there is Turgid Animal italy division of Torturing Love 7" + tape, where tape consist the long mixes of same tracks as 7" + additional material. One has to question why the 7" is there in first place? But the fact that one band has track called "cock pig" and therefore tape has "cock pig (long version)" I could appreciate it on conceptual level.
I think 7" suits more the noise / industrial that is "composed", as opposite of some random wall of noise or blasting something. Having beginning and end. And actual "composition".
QuoteThat's a nice theory, but do you really think thats how it happens?
I guess not, and I guess that is why I rarely buy 7".
From another angle I often listen to LPs and think something like "two tracks from this six track LP would have made a splendid 7"!"...
I agree with Mikko that the 7" format suits groups with a more "traditional sense" song structure. If I should ask a group to record a 7" for us it should probably be taken as some form of critizism that I think their tracks most often are too long, ha ha!
A 7" exists because it does. It is as worthwhile and worthless as any other format. As a listener, the only thing worthy of consideration is whether the shit is worth listening to. If one's basis for that is the damn format, what can I say, people do things for inscrutable reasons... but so do chimps.
I respect and admire the reasons an artist or label may offer for whatever they deem fit, but when it comes down to it, I really couldn't care less.
From the label viewpoint, it seems apparent that market-based arguments tend to fall in the minority, and listener preferences, though good and well, are not all that influential. A 7" exists because it does.