Repeating noise

Started by FreakAnimalFinland, February 11, 2023, 09:51:21 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

FreakAnimalFinland

Soddy keeps leaving good questions on the forum topics once in a while, but deleting them quickly. Latest one was question about what exactly is Incapacitants repeating? Or more broadly, what is noise repeating. I think that is fairly good question, despite many may feel it is too obvious to even consider further.

I think it was curious in THE RITA wcn podcast interview, where he rejected completely the recognize-ability of noise. In a way. Saying that in his work, it is always new. No hooks, no songs, just noise where flow of this noise is something you can't remember or know what happens next. Of course, from distance, it will look like it is "always the same". Which one is it? Always new, always different, even in every repeated listening.

Incapacitants, when asking what they are repeating, one could assume that looking at certain level, duo blasting harsh noise, purely improvised, I recall Mikawa even saying that many times in recording, it is hard to even know what sound is being made or which one of them is doing something. Just blasting harshness with fast paced modulation. I suppose that method is quite same since duo line-up came together. Format of most CD's is the same. Studio stuff + 20 minute live recording. CD after CD. After all that, most of albums do not sound like eachother. You can dissected their output to different "era", what are the ripping thin razor, what are the softer heavy theremin bath, what are odd weird broken toy-electronics type. There is no way someone could not make absolute distinction what is "feedback for..."  vs. "ministry of foolishness". It is so vastly different. So soddy's question, what exactly "repeats"? Like mentioned before, depends how you look it. Some type of form repeats.

I my own work, this "repeating" was exactly reason why I decided to break the "template" so to say. While album, always different tracks, always different forms, different compositions... but when looking a little distance, you could see over and over again, 3-5 minute songs, 8 song 40 min CD. Despite cover art looking different, gear changing, sound changing, but something "repeats". Is that a problem? Probably not really, in any other sense than personal challenge to leap into something different consciously.

Repeating same, is tricky question. There are many artists one wishes would have not changed as much as they did. Some others, you wish they'd gamble a little, and not become almost like brand. There are levels of repetition - some keep making good noise year after year, some will produce uniform line of product about same topic, same graphic outlook. I tend to be in category who doesn't mind, or even prefers some repetition. I know some guys who want to hear just the key albums, but many times I like to hear the stuff that came inbetween. The "same", the transitions, where sound is taking shape, until it becomes something new. I can't see noise as pop music. I rather see it from perspective of art, where sketches, attempts, smaller tests, repeated mass of samey illustrations is the art - not just the one masterpiece.

Feelings when repeating is fine? Would anyone tell painter that you paint too much, stop doing that! For a lot of sound artists you got people who complain of too much while nobody is forcing to listen or look.
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

chryptusrecords

Assuming this is in reference to Stuart McCune interview on newest White Centipede podcast, where he says even Incapacitants are repeating themselves lately. I took this to mean "repeating" not in actual sound or content but in form generally. Lots of albums and splits in "Incap style," maybe just as good as "Feedback of NMS", but how many times does "Feedback of NMS" get mentioned as one of the best noise albums ever? Compared to their recent works which get much less appraisal. Why is this? Does the "quality" of the work decrease? Or do circumstances of history change?

To my mind, same issue Stuart was talking about in "moving noise forward," what exactly does that mean, what does it look like? Easy to say, well, it's in the future, something new we can't imagine. Regardless of what it is, it's clear to me that the important factor here is compositional decisions. What does the artist choose to record, choose to release, and all together the total collection of these decisions, are the determining quality. Think of other genres, when Napalm Death released "Scum," not much like that, in its context it is groundbreaking and different. Now, how many no-name grind bands release albums that sound exactly like "Scum"?

Stuart also mentions the constraint of "individual creativity" or something like this, which is important. In art, sometimes the logical implications of the form demand certain works to be made. Expressionism is a reaction to naturalism, second wave black metal is a reaction to "puffy shoes" death metal. Darkthrone for instance gave up the creative impulse towards death metal in order to embrace this new style. Chasing the whims of individual creativity may lead to this "repeating," whereas working in relation or opposition to some bigger scene reveals the logical gaps in the form that demand new expressions.

FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: chryptusrecords on February 11, 2023, 07:04:52 PM
Assuming this is in reference to Stuart McCune interview on newest White Centipede podcast, where he says even Incapacitants are repeating themselves lately.

In that case it was, but in general, there often seems same comment made about prolific artists or those who have very refined style. Feeling that it is repeating itself, in a way that you can just listen previous album again and not bother with the new one as it would be just "more of the same".
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

Leewar

I have no problem with 'more of the same' if its great material to start with.

What i dont like is when the artist puts out 'more of the same' with less effort or they dont even try pushing against their own template even slightly.

Phenol

Interesting topic. There's so many layers in that question though, so I'll just give my thoughts on a few of them for starters. Firstly, and related to the moving noise forward discussion, when it comes to artists repeating themselves I have very mixed feelings. Sometimes it's good that certain artists are "robust", always deliver what is expected and therefore never dissappoint, at other times that "quality" makes them kind of redundant. Why would you want a new release that's just more of the same, when you could get something new and interesting instead? I think it comes down to the "ethos" of the particular artist. It's cool for one band to always stay in their lane while one would expect a development from others. Then sometimes development is not in a good direction. Some bands simply turn shit after one or two good records. Reasons for that can be many. Sometimes the creative well just dries out and at others ambition (commercial or artistic) makes bands opt for more approachable sounds or to go in directions that alienate listeners who liked their earlier stuff. Either way, development is not always towards the better. Also, development CAN happen within a template, I find there are endless variations within seemingly narrow genre music. Secondly, when it comes to repetition in the music itself, a loop, a rhythm or whatever, I tend to like it more than music that is sonically always on the move. It annoys me when noise is constantly changing and a sound never gets room to manifest itself properly. I get frustrated when some really cool sound is instantly replaced by another. I tend to like loops that become hypnotic via repetition. That said, there has to be some kind of dynamic. Completely static noise doesn't give me anything personally, although I get the arguments I've heard about the static wall of noise cleaning the head and leaving a blank canvas to be filled by the imagination. It just doesn't work that way for me but gets boring real quick.

Andrew McIntosh

There's always going to be a set of elements that any project is going to keep doing. Even with something like The Gerogerigegege - there's the diversity in releases, but when you hear a release you go, "yea, that'd be right". The elements will usually always be there.
Shikata ga nai.

Yvette

#6
Sharks ▬▬ι════════ﺤ
(ノ-_-)ノ ミ ┴┴

Foss

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 11, 2023, 09:51:21 AM

Feelings when repeating is fine? Would anyone tell painter that you paint too much, stop doing that! For a lot of sound artists you got people who complain of too much while nobody is forcing to listen or look.

Having the painter reference in mind, and i think this could transfer to musicians/noisemakers/artists in general is that there is a huge difference in refining a project over decades where it is interesting as you say to follow the progression via sketches, footnotes etc..where on the other hand you can have the artist making a breakthrough work of the career and then persuing to make more and more copies of that for different reasons. I debated this with people before, and some are mearly content with following their own formula, exploring what most people around sees as endless repetitions but they see/hear the smallest nuances. While on the outside it seems similar with the artist doing lazy copies of a formula made 20+ years ago because it simply works and they are content with doing it, more like a craft than artwork.