I've just released my first collection of recordings and I've been curious about how I can get wider distribution/listeners. I run everything on my blogspot page and, currently, I really don't care to make any money off of what I do. I just want to make an impact with my project. Any ideas/suggestions?
Thanks.
-Steffan
make a cassette tape and send it out for free to anyone that asks for it.
Yeah, that's true. My issue is not being able to spend too much on tapes and such. I'd like to at some point. I guess I'd like to get a bit of respect with my project before trying to sell things. I wouldn't want to pay for something without having any knowledge of what it is supposed to sound like, so that's why I've posted my first recordings as free downloads.
Send out copies for review. Figure for every 20-30 copies you send out, you'll get 1 review. Pay for an ad with the reviewer to up your odds. Also, make sure to kiss everyone's ass, but do so very cleverly without it being too obvious -- most important is to master the rhetorical style and particularities of the black humor (i.e. the way you degrade women gets really important here). Pay attention to who everyone's talking about on message boards and blogs, and in zines, and make sure to buy everything directly from the artist, and send emails with the order that stroke their ego, but again, cleverly (you're not trying to get laid, just to make sure you have the right 'friends'). Remember to maintain a very strict sense of irony, not glowing praise. It's a delicate matter. Make sure to friend them on Facebook and 'like' and repost everything they post. Do your best to mimic the graphic design of what's been selling out quickly in the last few months. Pay close attention here, because little things matter (i.e. spray-painted versus blank shells on tapes). Most important of all, closely monitor the descriptions of what's popular. They almost never in any way describe the release, but the subjects and objects matter and rapidly change over time: are eels, worms, snakes hot right now, or is it occult sigils and paraphernalia? Become a master of hyperbole and wry wit, and know when to apply which. Master this, and you may be able to sell 40 copies of a C-20 some day.
Trade some CD/s or Tapes with RRRecords :)
Quote from: catharticprocess on March 17, 2012, 09:25:23 PM
Send out copies for review. Figure for every 20-30 copies you send out, you'll get 1 review. Pay for an ad with the reviewer to up your odds. Also, make sure to kiss everyone's ass, but do so very cleverly without it being too obvious -- most important is to master the rhetorical style and particularities of the black humor (i.e. the way you degrade women gets really important here). Pay attention to who everyone's talking about on message boards and blogs, and in zines, and make sure to buy everything directly from the artist, and send emails with the order that stroke their ego, but again, cleverly (you're not trying to get laid, just to make sure you have the right 'friends'). Remember to maintain a very strict sense of irony, not glowing praise. It's a delicate matter. Make sure to friend them on Facebook and 'like' and repost everything they post. Do your best to mimic the graphic design of what's been selling out quickly in the last few months. Pay close attention here, because little things matter (i.e. spray-painted versus blank shells on tapes). Most important of all, closely monitor the descriptions of what's popular. They almost never in any way describe the release, but the subjects and objects matter and rapidly change over time: are eels, worms, snakes hot right now, or is it occult sigils and paraphernalia? Become a master of hyperbole and wry wit, and know when to apply which. Master this, and you may be able to sell 40 copies of a C-20 some day.
Hahahha. Now I know why my label is ignored :) To be serious, I think these rules can badly demoralize this young man :).... REPROBATE, don't read these words! I will give you good advices... Fuck system, even underground circle is sick.... Flout all rules and listen your intuition, nobody more... ;)
Quote from: catharticprocess on March 17, 2012, 09:25:23 PM
Send out copies for review. Figure for every 20-30 copies you send out, you'll get 1 review. Pay for an ad with the reviewer to up your odds. Also, make sure to kiss everyone's ass, but do so very cleverly without it being too obvious -- most important is to master the rhetorical style and particularities of the black humor (i.e. the way you degrade women gets really important here). Pay attention to who everyone's talking about on message boards and blogs, and in zines, and make sure to buy everything directly from the artist, and send emails with the order that stroke their ego, but again, cleverly (you're not trying to get laid, just to make sure you have the right 'friends'). Remember to maintain a very strict sense of irony, not glowing praise. It's a delicate matter. Make sure to friend them on Facebook and 'like' and repost everything they post. Do your best to mimic the graphic design of what's been selling out quickly in the last few months. Pay close attention here, because little things matter (i.e. spray-painted versus blank shells on tapes). Most important of all, closely monitor the descriptions of what's popular. They almost never in any way describe the release, but the subjects and objects matter and rapidly change over time: are eels, worms, snakes hot right now, or is it occult sigils and paraphernalia? Become a master of hyperbole and wry wit, and know when to apply which. Master this, and you may be able to sell 40 copies of a C-20 some day.
This explains why my Nickleback cover band is doing so well.
I hope my question didn't come across that way, in response to catharticprocess' comment (regardless of it being tongue in cheek.) I'm just new to all of this. I came upon industrial/p.e./noise all on my own. Besides any conversations I've had with people on this forum, I don't know anyone else who's into this. It was life changing, and I don't want my own project to seem like a mockery of any of that or any of you. Thanks for all of the suggestions, guys.
I would say it only happens over time. It's valid for just about everything. You do good things for long enough, people will eventually notice and things start to cumulate.
There is nothing to be achieved by cheap quick attention - such as described by Cathartic Process. You can get attention in those ways, but it leads absolutely nowhere.
That's definitely never been my intention. I guess my question had more to do with how someone new to creating noise/industrial-related music would distribute it within the noise/industrial community since I don't know anyone who is involved in the noise/industrial community. I don't care about popularity, whatsoever.
Quote from: Reprobate on March 18, 2012, 04:28:34 PM
I don't know anyone who is involved in the noise/industrial community. I don't care about popularity, whatsoever.
then you need to start making physical releases and sending them to every distro that will take it. do trades with people who make music that inspires you. to meet people in the community by being part of it. its that simple.
Just stick at it, keep building your label profile. keep true to your code. it may take years/months/days.Not everyone kisses ass to get where they are. best of luck with your project!
Thank you very much, guys. I apologize for the way I worded the initial question. Made me come off as a total asshole, which was not my intention at all.
Quote from: Reprobate on March 19, 2012, 09:18:40 PM
Thank you very much, guys. I apologize for the way I worded the initial question. Made me come off as a total asshole, which was not my intention at all.
I don't think it did, don't worry.
Exercise a good level of quality control. If you can afford to invest in putting together some tapes/discs then (in theory) you believe what you do is worth hearing. I think of it less as "build it and they will come" and more as "build it well and they will remember the visit".
catharticprocess brings the bright, cleansing fire.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 18, 2012, 12:51:08 PM
You do good things for long enough, people will eventually notice and things start to cumulate.
There is nothing to be achieved by cheap quick attention - such as described by Cathartic Process. You can get attention in those ways, but it leads absolutely nowhere.
That's an empirical claim that just doesn't add up for me. I've been doing this for 15 years, maybe not quite as long as you, but close. I've never seen quality and persistence have anything to do with the ability to secure releases, sell them at an above average rate, etc. Not with other artists or myself.
I'm a sociologist, and have been trained to look for patterns in group behavior and such. There's few groups I've ever seen that are as predictable as noise consumers. I would never play the game that would lead to that kind of success -- many know I don't hesitate to burn the bridges that I could profit from crossing. But I am pretty convinced that I could construct a marketing and career strategy for an artist that would land him (and it would have to be a him, or a really hot chick) in the position of the next Prurient. Time spent, talent, etc. would not be factors under consideration. As much as noise and PE artists like to think they're involved with a distinct alternative to the culture industry, all the same rules apply. The same things that launched Lady Gaga as an industry are at work with the more 'successful' noise artists.
I definitely agree with that. Look at how many talentless bands/artists exist, yet they make millions of dollars and it's all thanks to marketing. One of the most impressive/evil sciences that exist.
Quote from: catharticprocess on March 20, 2012, 10:18:46 PM
That's an empirical claim that just doesn't add up for me. I've been doing this for 15 years, maybe not quite as long as you, but close. I've never seen quality and persistence have anything to do with the ability to secure releases, sell them at an above average rate, etc. Not with other artists or myself.
As a sociologist, you may be aware of mentality when nothing is enough?
Lets say 1993 teen boy from Finland was happy to send out 30 tapes.
In 2012 family man from Finland is happy to send out 200 CD's.
It has cumulated, it no longer requires tons of efforts to try to prove it could be worth of someone's time, but someone is actually e-mailing impatiently when there would be something new coming.
For a lot of people, simply nothing is enough. They will always look in horror about someone elses achievements, thinking I should be there - and partly that's the reason they can't. Luckily noise is like life in general. We are unequal like nature meant it. Real stars will shine and scum will suffocate in dirt.
You, as Clew Of Theseus, or new branded project you could attempt to build, won't be Prurient or bands of that scale. It just won't happen. I know it and you know it. And I don't know what would be the problem? Ain't getting neat LP's out on label other side of world enough? What is needed? Frequent indie media coverage?
Just like the next rad cunt assumes they could be next Lady Gaga with "clever marketing", but it ain't happening: There can't be new Merzbow, there can't be new Whitehouse.
Of course we all know, that you can attract small number of people simply by genre choice. Or small aesthetic choice. You can test it by assembling few words (like: HWN, Giallo, swastika, Power Electronics, violence, death industrial, handmade, limited, cosmic, ...) and come up with easy-as-fuck combinations of sound, theme and visual direction what will move 50 tapes. But question remains: What then? What will this 50 tapes out there mean, if you did it for all the wrong reasons? It is beyond my understanding.
There simply ain't any success in ability of "sell them above average". I would hope nobody else feels like they have failed, when their persistent work have not made it possible to charge extra dollars? I think this simply belongs to the absolute core of why people won't "succeed". And why nothing is enough for them.
So, I repeat: Only way to get your stuff "out there" is to do good stuff. Do stuff what matters most of all to yourself. Otherwise their is no point even trying to spread it. And do it without hurry, without intent to "succeed". If you're good enough and interesting enough, people are naturally attracted. If not now, then maybe later. All the cheap marketing hype and silly sociologist studies will mean very little in long run. There's nothing to be gained by "knowing right people", unless reason to know them based on something real. When you try to hang out with people to leech on them, it helps you very little. When you operate on level of mutual interests, it's entire different story.
If your interested that your Stuff is Spread around, no Joke, deal with RRRecords or some other Labels in this Kind, since Ron supports a Lot of Artists and nearly Trade with everyone. So its an Easy First Step if you'r not interested to make your own Label.
Getting distribution is not easy anymore - if it ever was.
Very few, if anyone, is interested to invest $$ to buy inventory. Less and less appear to be interested to trade as well. Many of "major" distributors in Europe don't bother with tapes. Or CDR's. In Japan there appears to be less possibilities than 5-10 years ago.
When I look the situation in USA, I think many of my releases have from 0 to max 3 distributors. And most have not taken many copies. Selling directly to people appears easier than finding distributors. To find buyers, you need to have stuff available and enough time to spend.
That's hard to believe about distribution being difficult. I was under the impression that the noise scene has grown to 100,000+ worldwide & some artists were living the highlife from their work.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 21, 2012, 11:10:30 PM
Getting distribution is not easy anymore - if it ever was.
When I first started Clew Of Theseus, I was in a similar situation to Retrobate. When I recorded my 7", I thought I was onto something really new and different - I didn't even know there was a noise scene. When the record came out in 1997, Self Abuse readily ordered 15 copies and paid up front. I don't think I've ever had anyone order 15 of any single release since then except for one order of the Skullflower tape. I'm still sitting on new copies of the split 2xCDr with Black Sand Desert, released 10 years ago in an edition of 70.
Quote from: bitewerksMTB on March 22, 2012, 12:03:58 AM
That's hard to believe about distribution being difficult. I was under the impression that the noise scene has grown to 100,000+ worldwide & some artists were living the highlife from their work.
Impression about growth may be accurate, but results or way of how growth happens probably not?
It has not grown like pyramid - but like swamp.
There is hardly a "upper level" who keeps enjoying and exploiting those below in hierarchy, but it really is just vast swamp where you get lost and get stuck. Pretty much everybody sells pretty much the same. Pressings nowadays appear to be smaller than most of 90's pressings. Simply much more different titles. Most often the newbie with interesting title can sell exactly same as appreciated veteran.
Only difference comes when you step out to "real world" - such as traveling. Are you "popular" enough that someone will pay your flight to play gig abroad? But also this is the thing which might be confusing for "outsider", since a lot of people do gigs, but aren't getting paid. Even many big names appear to be happy to get what they get. I think best money I got for coming to play in US was 100usd. Such payment barely covers my drive to Helsinki airport and keep car there for parking. But sometimes you simply have to accept fact that to play shows, to make releases, to make trades, etc... none of them may be financially profitable, but worth doing.
It relates to distribution questions. From my experience - first you bang your head to the wall 10 years, then something might happen. But just as Cathartic Process said. There was time when you could put out 7" or LP and wait distros to pick it up. Now, if you find 5 distros willing to BUY LP for cash in significant amounts, I guess you're on winning team? :D
Many times I have said it, and I can say it again: The key element of Freak Animal operations is realistic pressings. There are very few releases what actually are done "real" big normal editions. Say 500 or more. Vast majority of releases, has always been small pressings of 200-300 copies. If you move 50 copies out of 200, it's pretty nice. 1/4 ! But if you move 50 out of 1000, it can be mentally annoying.
Distribution advice = keep it realistic, give it time. If moving 70 CDR's takes 10 years, it's still ok, if release is good and inspiring.
I know it to be true, but it is still baffling to me that it is no longer a trading-based system. I cannot imagine trying to run a label in 2012 solely because of that fact. When I thought to start a label, the first thing I did was write a few existing labels and ask for advice. I gave them my impressions and ideas for how I wanted my label to go. One of the most important things anyone told me was that it was easier to sell 2 copies of 500 different records than 1000 copies of a single record. I didn't want to run a distro or to mess with trading; real greenhorn mentality. Trading was key to everything I did. The greatest business and life lessons came out of trading. Because trading was so fruitful and rewarding in so many ways, I have a difficult time imaging how someone would find the day-to-day desire to keep operating a label. It was an enormous amount of work. Without any exaggeration, I probably worked on my label 2-4 hours a night, six days a week. I truly enjoyed it. If I miss anything, it is the trading.
My condolences to all those who run a label in 2012.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 22, 2012, 08:29:18 AMswamp.
It would be interesting to see all this in consumer perspective - if today's climate is not ideal for labels/distros, does the individual rejoice due explosion of microlabels, bands selling their own stuff etc? Are people buying more happy today? I just recall my own listening/buying 10-15 years ago, with distrolists on paper etc. I was pretty happy there was not too much to choose from!
About distro - i'm about to start 12" vinyl only mailorder very soon, so still continuing in the lucrative vein, hah... There was US label which I wanted to order some DLP wholesale to the upcoming mailorder, but when they sell their DLP for $22 and wholesale is $17 + pretty extreme postage costs for vinyls to Europe it's pretty much a nono. Why would I order wholesale for say $17 + say $6 = $23 and adding at least 50% = 27 EUR to customer for DLP + postage costs = say 40 EUR for customer, why would individual order from me when available through net/direct from label for 50% of my price? I can understand distros don't order anymore... Still, I think you should see larger perspective, and in longer terms, so maybe I should try and order anyway, ha ha...
I enjoy in every next issued item by me. I don't care that some of them will not sold at all. I fuck money in this business which is my passion not job. I have money from my routine work in which I am a whore. My passion must be outside whoredom, money, cynical calculations and obligatory system based on ideas of capitalism. I try to understand people/owners who don't want to trade... but only I try... What may be more interesting than next unknown releases from other labels? Money which MUST refund our input to issue music? Fuck it.
Quote from: bogskaggmannen on March 22, 2012, 09:31:56 AM
why would individual order from me when available through net/direct from label for 50% of my price? I can understand distros don't order anymore...
I think the difference between wholesalecost and retailcost overall is getting smaller and smaller. People tend to order more directly from the labels now? Controversial opinion I suppose, but raise the retailcost and lower the wholesalecost, I say. Shipping etc is insane today, and it should be of the labels interest to get the stuff out there. What we have now is that people rather import an LP from the other side of the world than order the same LP from their regular domestic mailorders, due to it being cheaper in the end. Which I totally understand of course, but the lack of support obviously affects your label/mailorder in the end. And from a personal stance, I much rather ship out 200 copies of an LP to 20 different distributors, than to send out 200 individual orders (like those numbers ever would happen, heh..), even if it then results in less cash in the wallet in the end.
I hope resurrecting an old thread won't lead to an instant execution by firing squad, but I felt an urge to address the comments Mr. Aspa made on marketing as I think he hit the nail on it's head.
I've witnessed a lot of people feeling super jaded with the current state of underground music. They claim that everything's been done and that all that is left is an endless drome of recycled aesthetics. I beg to differ. There's so much that hasn't been done. So many directions the genre in question can be taken. So many personalities waiting to be expressed. I think it's important to understand that what makes a great artist isn't only a sense of aesthetics. It's the ability to communicate your personality and deepest obsessions. To make your art real and tangible to strangers. Just like a great film strives to make it's illusion real. A place that you'll yearn to visit again and again. This is the key element that most artists lack today. Both in the PE scene and beyond. People have learned how to make a product. Nothing else. It's meaningless. Just like a cross without the myth of the man who died on it. Anyway... That's my 2 cents. Hope things worked out for the author of the thread. If not, so be it.
Quote from: Reprobate on March 15, 2012, 08:59:04 PM
I've just released my first collection of recordings and I've been curious about how I can get wider distribution/listeners. I run everything on my blogspot page and, currently, I really don't care to make any money off of what I do. I just want to make an impact with my project. Any ideas/suggestions?
Thanks.
-Steffan
Hei Steffan, not sure I can add some sensible comment... as I don't know your label or your output. So a bit difficult. Nevetheless, I think a lot of good points have been made. You just have to carve away the irony and satirical wrappings.
I think maybe key issue for you is distribution. At least, this is what I am reading. I'm not sure on what point you are in developing your label, but I suggest start with your closest cadre and build from there. I'm not an expert on this, just thinking pragmatical. Having a grassroots (man, I hate that expression! Somebody, please flame it!) connection is crucial. Don't underestimate your own and your friends social and professional network/relationships. For bigger distribution, I suggest contacing an imprint that you feel have approx same wavelength/bomb crater interest - or a label that seems to be in the same situation as yourselves. Tape for tape trades is the usual law. Just remember, you never get a yes or no if you don't ask. What's the worst thing that can happen? ... you get a no and move on... In the end it boils to: Do your own thing and ignore my suggestion while yo show me the finger!
Keep up the good work.
Quote from: 13 on November 29, 2014, 12:04:12 AM
I've witnessed a lot of people feeling super jaded with the current state of underground music. They claim that everything's been done and that all that is left is an endless drome of recycled aesthetics. I beg to differ. There's so much that hasn't been done. So many directions the genre in question can be taken. So many personalities waiting to be expressed. I think it's important to understand that what makes a great artist isn't only a sense of aesthetics. It's the ability to communicate your personality and deepest obsessions. To make your art real and tangible to strangers. Just like a great film strives to make it's illusion real. A place that you'll yearn to visit again and again. This is the key element that most artists lack today. Both in the PE scene and beyond. People have learned how to make a product. Nothing else. It's meaningless. Just like a cross without the myth of the man who died on it. Anyway... That's my 2 cents. Hope things worked out for the author of the thread. If not, so be it.
One of the most poignant things I've read on this board in a while.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on March 21, 2012, 11:10:30 PM
Getting distribution is not easy anymore - if it ever was.
Very few, if anyone, is interested to invest $$ to buy inventory. Less and less appear to be interested to trade as well. Many of "major" distributors in Europe don't bother with tapes. Or CDR's. In Japan there appears to be less possibilities than 5-10 years ago.
When I look the situation in USA, I think many of my releases have from 0 to max 3 distributors. And most have not taken many copies. Selling directly to people appears easier than finding distributors. To find buyers, you need to have stuff available and enough time to spend.
Indeed -
thank you to Unseen Force, Analog Worship, Self Abuse, Tordon Ljud, Lust Vessel, and the other folks I'm missing that bother to distributed New Forces titles. It's a thankless "job" with little payoff, and I know they really help myself and other folks that run labels on this board.
1. Xerox fucking EVERYTHING
2. Be vague and pretentious in your descriptions of the material you release. Who cares what it sounds like, just say shit like "a meritorious objet d'art of grueling psychic discharges; panem et circenses for the depressed and psychotic".
3. When people email or PM you asking about your material give pissy one word answers. You are better than them now that you are part of the scene. Remember that.
4. Wear something leather whenever you do live shows; leather gloves are coolest.
5. Be vague about your politics and opinions. Better yet don't talk about them at all, these maggots will never understand you.
Xorox fucking Power
Quote from: 13 on November 29, 2014, 12:04:12 AM
I've witnessed a lot of people feeling super jaded with the current state of underground music. They claim that everything's been done and that all that is left is an endless drome of recycled aesthetics. I beg to differ. There's so much that hasn't been done. So many directions the genre in question can be taken. So many personalities waiting to be expressed. I think it's important to understand that what makes a great artist isn't only a sense of aesthetics. It's the ability to communicate your personality and deepest obsessions. To make your art real and tangible to strangers. Just like a great film strives to make it's illusion real. A place that you'll yearn to visit again and again. This is the key element that most artists lack today. Both in the PE scene and beyond. People have learned how to make a product. Nothing else. It's meaningless. Just like a cross without the myth of the man who died on it. Anyway... That's my 2 cents. Hope things worked out for the author of the thread. If not, so be it.
Related to this, in some ways, is that I was just reading one crappy mainstream metal magazine with Exodus guitarist interview. And for the first time, I came across pretty honest self critical view. While everybody in more popular late 80's metal always claims "grunge killed metal" kinds of stuff as if it was not about them, but ONLY about changing times... this guy said yeah yeah, it's true grunge became popular, but now when looking back, the real reason is that
we all (Exodus and other thrash/speed/heavy etc..)
did so much worse albums than we did before.Learned or was being told how to make product to sell, but that wasn't too good. Nowhere near as good as when motivation was different. Lots of other bands who learned how to made product to market probably would have its effect as well, but if nobody makes truly great albums that stands out, then no wonder most people move on.
For those who often follow just the known names. Who buy albums of "trusted artists" instead of dive into swamp of unknown noise, I'm 100% sure,
jaded is the feeling that can be understood. You know, make a list of biggest and best known noise & p.e. and then ask yourself if the noise these guys have made during last years have made big impact on you?
On the side note.. I'm quite firm hater of all these "big cartel" etc kind of stuff. Yeah I know its all easy, good, simple. It looks professional, you don't need to communicate, just move product when people click buttons. But all sites look the same. All soundclouds look the same. All band camps look the same. Drag and drop some graphics to frames of template. I still stick mostly on this crappy 1.0 internetz coded site as while being pretty uncool and shitty, too big to anyone to really browse, but with all the flaws, at least it's not just exactly same as every place what you click.
All that being said, I also think that one can't solely blame makers. You know, for the audience, who has hunger for new, hunger for being entertained, how could you ever keep them
entertained? Never.
While one can request artists to make true art and communicate, one could also request listener to allow himself to join. Not to buy "product" that's destined to be treated as such, but also give it a chance. Not consider aesthetics as excuse for his own apathy. You know,
"again xeroxed bondage".
"I don't buy CD", "I don't buy tape", you know..
"No vocals", "I want screaming, but no stupid flanger effects", It's their choice of course, but if we are in check-mate situation with consumer needs, what can happen? If there's so many requirements one needs to fill, and finally it's all "like it should", and then one cries how it's all so expected and old, what else to expect, hah...?
Of course you can always say artist failed to entertain or spark interest, but you can also say that it ain't his job to do so. It's not job or necessity. It is something that may happen when ideas & sounds starts to communicate. I feel that within this swamp of noise, its perfectly fine for label to have 5 or 10 or 50 contacts who trade, buy, communicate with eachother. Even without "audience" beyond "artists" themselves. When you have some plot you think its going to lead for "success", then one knows it's probably doing it wrong.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 01, 2014, 10:57:36 AMRelated to this, in some ways, is that I was just reading one crappy mainstream metal magazine with Exodus guitarist interview. And for the first time, I came across pretty honest self critical view. While everybody in more popular late 80's metal always claims "grunge killed metal" kinds of stuff as if it was not about them, but ONLY about changing times... this guy said yeah yeah, it's true grunge became popular, but now when looking back, the real reason is that we all (Exodus and other thrash/speed/heavy etc..) did so much worse albums than we did before.
I was in the San Francisco Bay area shortly after the thrash explosion, when Metallica made it big and Testament was riding around expensive motorcycles. There was one practice space in particular where a lot of thrash bands practiced. DRI was one of the bigger names there. It was depressing to hear how many conversations were about making it big, trying to write songs that could be more accessible to the general metal listener, etc. Everyone who could play an instrument forming a thrash band, because they understood it as an easy way to being a millionaire. If they could just figure out the formula and imitate the guitar tone and licks of Hammett, they'd be set for life. I didn't hear too many people talking about the love of the music or doing it because it was satisfying/fun. Overnight, it felt like it was a business formula to distill and regurgitate. I'd never heard so much terrible finger jocking and bands not even worthy of being on a demo. Bad music. Bad reasoning. I don't think any of this is that unusual, but in the context of thrash? I found the whole thing pretty damn strange, and when older guys who had been involved in that type of music for a while were getting sucked into the delusions, I had to acknowledge how powerful the business success of Metallica was. I understand his answer.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 01, 2014, 10:57:36 AM
On the side note.. I'm quite firm hater of all these "big cartel" etc kind of stuff. Yeah I know its all easy, good, simple. It looks professional, you don't need to communicate, just move product when people click buttons. But all sites look the same. All soundclouds look the same. All band camps look the same. Drag and drop some graphics to frames of template. I still stick mostly on this crappy 1.0 internetz coded site as while being pretty uncool and shitty, too big to anyone to really browse, but with all the flaws, at least it's not just exactly same as every place what you click.
Not a big hater of bigcartel stores, but I understand your point.
Unfortunately it seems that having a big cartel is the same as having a huge banner saying "buy or fuck off! I don't trade" and this is something I hate.
QuoteLearned or was being told how to make product to sell, but that wasn't too good. Nowhere near as good as when motivation was different.
I remember being bothered by this business mentality in metal as a teenager (and I believe it afflicts almost all music genres). I was reading the Hungarian edition of Metal Hammer and I remember there were constant remarks and discussions about this or that band (black, death, thrash, any kind) not reaching enough people because of stupid commercial music radio & TV channels and media not giving them exposure. There was a constant bitterness about metal not being popular enough (and paradoxically, at the same time there was this tough guy attitude that "brothers in metal" are somehow special because they listen to metal). When I discovered experimental music, it was a relief that finally the focus now was purely on music. While on one hand I can sort of understand if a new, say, death metal band wants to reach fame within the death metal circles or if, say, Fear Factory wants to play to bigger audiences, I think this focus on "career", popularity and sales is detrimental to music. It might sound snobbish, but music is an art form and I don't wanna read about bland business considerations discussed together with music. I guess with noise, for example, there is not even a remote chance that even the biggest names will interest more than a few hundred people, so noise bands/noise musicians can focus on making music as their hobby, not their livelihood. I think, in the interest of music, it's much better that way.