Mental Illness Representation in PE/Noise

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I would see Markkula's comments less as medical comment, and rather... hmm.. "underground comment". hah. When you look at the history of underground cultures, it's very often been rebellious, frustrated, FTW, No Future!, morally questionable behavior, and so on. All in all, something that indicates not fitting in to system, but some sort of resistance. It is just that I do not think "good mental health" standard, is that psychotic delusional reality that society often offers.
Therefore I see Markkula blurting out "mental health problem" more as indication that people tend to deviate from supposedly virtuous qualities presented in mainstream society.

[Commander15]

I would see Markkula's comments less as medical comment, and rather... hmm.. "underground comment". hah. When you look at the history of underground cultures, it's very often been rebellious, frustrated, FTW, No Future!, morally questionable behavior, and so on. All in all, something that indicates not fitting in to system, but some sort of resistance. It is just that I do not think "good mental health" standard, is that psychotic delusional reality that society often offers.
Therefore I see Markkula blurting out "mental health problem" more as indication that people tend to deviate from supposedly virtuous qualities presented in mainstream society.

I tend to think that this is the "proper" interpretation of Pasi's statement. There are lots of anti-systemic currents, customs, way of thought and sentiments present in noise / PE / industrial that could be seen as unproductive, futile, crazy, mentally ill and even "dangerous" by society's and fully socialized people's standards.

[Atrophist]

Yes, of course. And I seem to recall Markkula himself elaborating on his answer, more or less to that effect. Too bad it seems to not be available online any longer.

[brutalist_tapes]

I would see Markkula's comments less as medical comment, and rather... hmm.. "underground comment". hah. When you look at the history of underground cultures, it's very often been rebellious, frustrated, FTW, No Future!, morally questionable behavior, and so on. All in all, something that indicates not fitting in to system, but some sort of resistance. It is just that I do not think "good mental health" standard, is that psychotic delusional reality that society often offers.
Therefore I see Markkula blurting out "mental health problem" more as indication that people tend to deviate from supposedly virtuous qualities presented in mainstream society.

this is the way

[brutalist_tapes]

Yes, of course. And I seem to recall Markkula himself elaborating on his answer, more or less to that effect. Too bad it seems to not be available online any longer.

this not being online anymore, for example, just shows to me that we need to keep on pissing on this fucked society. i actually trust that the real fuck you attitude will never die, but never the less, it should be kept alive

[SIEGSIEGSIEG]

Yes, of course. And I seem to recall Markkula himself elaborating on his answer, more or less to that effect. Too bad it seems to not be available online any longer.

https://areena.yle.fi/podcastit/1-3711476

edit: Ah it wasn't about this then? But here's a reminder for the finnish speaking folks if someone hasn't listened to it hehe.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I suppose talk was about video with english subtitles that got removed when account of uploader got deleted?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

In recent news quite interesting research:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sjop.13018

Intent was to study Construction and validation of a scale for assessing critical social justice attitudes, so in short media says "wokeness" of people.

Done in university of Turku, Finland. There is a lot of data in research, but the interesting points include for example that study that questions the differences of female and male, there is significant difference between them found in the data. Another amusing point being that critical social justice attitudes are in correlation with depression and anxiety. And that same level of correlation exists with leftism.

I doubt they can establish any hard data about cause & effect. One could assume that in world like this, of course you are bound to be growingly depressed. Yet world does appear to be going down to drain also from "right wing perspective", yet depression and anxiety doesn't seem to effect in same way?

It would be also curious to see how in underground, the depression or anxiety appears to have different shapes, not only in artistic expression, but within the "scenes".

[tiny_tove]

In recent news quite interesting research:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sjop.13018

Intent was to study Construction and validation of a scale for assessing critical social justice attitudes, so in short media says "wokeness" of people.

Done in university of Turku, Finland. There is a lot of data in research, but the interesting points include for example that study that questions the differences of female and male, there is significant difference between them found in the data. Another amusing point being that critical social justice attitudes are in correlation with depression and anxiety. And that same level of correlation exists with leftism.

I doubt they can establish any hard data about cause & effect. One could assume that in world like this, of course you are bound to be growingly depressed. Yet world does appear to be going down to drain also from "right wing perspective", yet depression and anxiety doesn't seem to effect in same way?

It would be also curious to see how in underground, the depression or anxiety appears to have different shapes, not only in artistic expression, but within the "scenes".

very interesting.
some scenes are ideologically depressed: goth, emo, etc. It's part of the label
other scenes drag many depressed people. words and words have been written about the cathartic use of violent sounds to battle that, feel alive, etc. Most my friends in subcultures had that and felt that, as well as using scenes to replace disfunctional / absent families - and leaving them once the same patterns were repeated in such scenes or perceived as such by the person. will check this study, really up my alley.

[VORACLE]

Having being diagnosed with two different "mental illnesses" within the past year, I can happily say that I don't think mental illness exists/is a real thing.

Prolonged stress from having to live in a toilet society? Yes.

Are people mentally ill for hating the garbage landscape they have to inherit now? Or are they the sane ones?

[Atrophist]

I mean, that is what causes mental illness. Exposure to conditions that make you mentally ill.

[VORACLE]

I mean, that is what causes mental illness. Exposure to conditions that make you mentally ill.

I just mean in the sense that psychiatrists/medications can't "fix" it at all. Only radical change, either in the Self or in society.

[Cranial Blast]

I mean, that is what causes mental illness. Exposure to conditions that make you mentally ill.

I just mean in the sense that psychiatrists/medications can't "fix" it at all. Only radical change, either in the Self or in society.

Radical change in self is the biggest challenge, but in the end and grand scheme proves the best results indeed, that's what I believe. I think if society wasn't so fucked, I think that would help in ending some of the mental illness out there. American society seems to be the worst in regards to keeping mental illness alive and well between our stupid media run politics, deep state career politicians, and this notion to keep beating a dead horse and expecting new results and not only on that topic, but more specifically with that fact that our society puts way more emphasis on "work" as if that is the only meaning we have to live for, granite today's younger generation is starting to take critical notice of the failures of that line of thinking, but now with inflation so high it's leveling the playing field, so you'll have to work more just to have less now. This idea in America that we just need to keep working and working hard every day I think is leading to some forms of mental illness. Often times I get this same line of shit from the older people, why don't you take on more hours while you got em! Why don't you invest!? Don't you want to get ahead! GET AHEAD!!...those two words "get ahead" have pissed me off my whole life, get ahead of what? Cheating my own death, so I can live to be 90?! Getting ahead money so I can buy more cheap bullshit furniture from an IKEA store? This idea of preserving ourselves with a lifetime of work to where we can finally rest with a piss bag strapped to our legs in our 90s and then die is utterly absurd and it's this kind of societal thinking that I think leads to obvious mental illness, because wanting to live into your 90s or live for some next mass made material possession in my opinion is mental illness. America and I don't know about the rest of the world, but it leads everyone subconsciously into this stupid way of thinking that in it in itself is harmful to human spirit.