Using social media (as artists/label or as follower)

Started by FreakAnimalFinland, July 25, 2024, 09:42:21 AM

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FreakAnimalFinland

I suppose there was topic related to this before, but I'll start new nevertheless!

I went quite late to facebook. Already when I joined, it was sort of dying out, and people swiftly moving to IG. Mainly I joined to have some public place for my physical store to be contacted, but also put labels there. Never really post as a "person" on my own page, nor I really look friend requests. These days main usage is probably checking out Noise Now Playing group and Sarvilevyt store posts. Despite "following" something, you never see that stuff. Mostly spam and random shit in the feed. Also noticing so many labels or people never use it, that could be good to have some sort of account at IG to be able to follow news. I guess the "I'm too old for this shit" is kind of true, since using IG hasn't increased any actual "information". Perhaps I am using it wrong, hah. I just can't get into idea of "IG stories", especially due abusive amount of advertising that pop ups during just watching random photos. That seems to be the most popular usage and often when going to someones "site", often you don't see even much there. Would just have to be using the app, going through everything all the time to see the stuff. Feels very odd thing to do.

Out of curiosity, I asked person with tiktok to check out what "#harshnoise", and all sort of stuff there. Not like I'd be actually checking any of it, but very similar type of things as IG. Self build gear test clips, short live clips, something like that.

When I think about what are the functions that I would really need AND use... then really, it is like fb group "Noise Now Playing", where someone, hopefully, not only posts a pic, but writes about releases, something personal, perhaps anecdotes, perhaps a review. No links, no spam, less "promotion", more of... noise fandom so to say. So very much like a forum.  Only thing forum is missing is the smooth compatibility with other social media and less visual due no point to fill servers with pics. It is also that other place you need to go, other account to log into, while most apps are sort of "all inclusive" and they are programmed to be that way, that you just wouldn't leave outside the system. You got the things you follow, but also friends/chat/private messages/whatever, and perhaps that temporary nature appeals to people, that posting whatever random "I'm listening to this", won't be online for next decade?

As a user, I am not sure do I need a new "system" to take part, rather there is desire to find the "content" so to say. As a "artist", I don't think I really need or want social media, as the work happens kind of elsewhere. As a label and especially as magazine (SI that is), it gets little weird. It is odd, that still just about every month I get someone ordering all the back issues and people who are actually involved in the noise scene, saying they never heard of this type of zine existing. Of course, I don't insist nor expect people to know paper zine from other side of the planet, but since that is the case, it makes one wonder if account in something like IG is sort of mandatory, so that people have even small opportunity to randomly discover magazine or find articles/reviews at the website? While for own "art", I barely care if it is noticed or if it gets "coverage", but for "journalism", whole purpose is sort of create visibility for things that were considered noteworthy.

Using social media as artists/label or as follower.. Different attitude towards different usages and is there something you're looking for, but none of the systems really seem to have it?
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

Balor/SS1535

I don't use social media to promote my own work, aside from utilizing messaging functions to communicated with already established contacts.

In fact, I would like to get rid of it altogether (for me, Facebook and Instagram).  There are too many ads and irrelevant, stupid crap to make it an actually valuable use of my time.

What keeps me from doing so, however, is that they help me keep a semi-centralized stream of news about noise---new releases, old albums to check out, and, most importantly, postings for local shows (noise in SoCal is too irregular to make certain venues "go-to" places to keep track of on their own).

MALAISE57

I only use IG as social media for my project. I find it rather simple to use and good, you can message, easily see what other likeminded people are doing, update some recent news easily.. Its all i need.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 25, 2024, 09:42:21 AMOut of curiosity, I asked person with tiktok to check out what "#harshnoise", and all sort of stuff there. Not like I'd be actually checking any of it, but very similar type of things as IG. Self build gear test clips, short live clips, something like that.

That's interesting, noise in tiktok.. I wonder how well it has found its place there considering Tiktok is very popular and its built in a way to promote random engagement with the feed system.. Probably the usual "what the fuck is this shit", haha

BlackCavendish

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 25, 2024, 09:42:21 AMAs a label and especially as magazine (SI that is), it gets little weird. It is odd, that still just about every month I get someone ordering all the back issues and people who are actually involved in the noise scene, saying they never heard of this type of zine existing. Of course, I don't insist nor expect people to know paper zine from other side of the planet, but since that is the case, it makes one wonder if account in something like IG is sort of mandatory, so that people have even small opportunity to randomly discover magazine or find articles/reviews at the website?

The problem with social networks is the inevitable "background noise", advertising, sponsored posts, etc.
As a user it is difficult to find something good, unless you are very strict in choosing your "friends"... also the algorithms don't help because they favor what brings money to the platform, not so much your interests.

However, as a fanzine publisher (at least in my experience), if you use thematic groups to promote new releases or have a network of people who share your news with others, you will probably find some new customers/curious people every once ina while. Especially if it's someone who does not follow the scene closely, or maybe is just a newcomer (maybe young) and does not spend time looking for forums or similar things from the "old internet".

There's also another problem: if you have a FB/IG page that remains dormant for too long, with no posts or whatsoever, when you publish something new the algorithm penalizes you, so it becomes a job to keep it active all the time. Is it worth it? That's the question

Cranial Blast

The Myspace experience was enough for me back in the day to where I've never used Social Media again. It felt very liberating to be detached from all of that, but it's just like all things, I'm sure having social media in this age has it's benefits, but I don't think the benefits outweigh the headaches.

tisbor

Almost everything about every social media is terrible and depressing. And yeah I also stopped using FB besides for my shit diary. IG is way more than enough, and often I fall into the abyss of endlessly scrolling stories. There are ways to avoid ads altogether. It's useful to spam and sell stuff, but if like Mikko you manage to sell and show your work without it I'd recommend to avoid like the plague.

Cranial Blast

Quote from: tisbor on July 25, 2024, 09:01:09 PMAlmost everything about every social media is terrible and depressing. And yeah I also stopped using FB besides for my shit diary. IG is way more than enough, and often I fall into the abyss of endlessly scrolling stories. There are ways to avoid ads altogether. It's useful to spam and sell stuff, but if like Mikko you manage to sell and show your work without it I'd recommend to avoid like the plague.

The "shit diary" is literally the only good thing about it from when I first heard about and the most symbolic of social media ironically, haha...any short of the shit diary is utterly boring and uninteresting.

mag-maa

Quote from: BlackCavendish on July 25, 2024, 07:01:51 PMalso the algorithms don't help because they favor what brings money to the platform, not so much your interests.

There's also another problem: if you have a FB/IG page that remains dormant for too long, with no posts or whatsoever, when you publish something new the algorithm penalizes you, so it becomes a job to keep it active all the time. Is it worth it? That's the question

yes, that agorithm system sucks, deeply. many time thinking is it really worth to continue on those platforms. IG I use to promote my stuff, but how to really promote when the system filters your posts to only some of the followers; and that's causing frustration (at least in my head).
IG had still one year ago, a possibility to use selected hashtag, and to see "top posts" or "latest posts". They removed that, and now you can only see top posts or "best latest posts". So if the post doesn't get enough likes (because the person doesn't have enough followers/fans or the algorithm just chooses to show those post to few of the followers, or even shadow banning), the post will not appear on that hashtag-list. So, you need to be "popular and liked" to get more views.

so far still contunuing in IG even if there's that frustration point, but there's also the easy connection to some people... so not totally bad, but some very bad features.

Penon

To artists, I think social media gives an ability (or one may say "hope", given it is far from certain) to pick up attention from people who don't follow this forum or other "usual" places. While this may be less true for harsh noise, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of PE/DI and broader noisy industrial are genres that are very much listenable and can be enjoyed by quite a lot of people with a variety of more mainstream music tastes. But because this is not their #1 genre , they wouldn't be joining SI or WCN discord, or follow #harshnosie hashtag on bandcamp. So being on FB, IG or even TikTok is a chance for an artist to help these people - let's say accidentally - stumble upon this noisy thing that they like just enough to enjoy it when it is shown to them, but not enough to proactively search for a rare tape edition of 20. I am sure many industry purists would be unhappy with such democratisation of a scene that ultimately is built on very passionate and dedicated people. But I think every scene needs tourists too, because some of them will convert, but only if they get exposed to it in a first place. Even if on TikTok.

From fan's perspective, definitely the amount of spam and ads and irrelevant "suggestions" is insane on all major social networks but it can still be a handy tool to monitor what the artists you track are up to. I think you lose this ability as you get to too many followed pages because even if each of the artists posts something random / irrelevant once in a while, with 1,000 followed artists, chances are that you will miss useful announcements when you add those random / low value posts to an already massive stream of spam and ads.

TLDR:
- As an artist, social media gives hope to pick up few random noise / industrial fans that happen to not be on Special Interests forum
- As a fan, social media could be useful if you focus on following a relatively small number of artists whose art you really want to focus on.
Minimum Sentence - UK Disquieting Noise Experiments / Industrial Electronics:
Youtube - Bandcamp - Instagram

Balor/SS1535

Quote from: BlackCavendish on July 25, 2024, 07:01:51 PM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 25, 2024, 09:42:21 AMAs a label and especially as magazine (SI that is), it gets little weird. It is odd, that still just about every month I get someone ordering all the back issues and people who are actually involved in the noise scene, saying they never heard of this type of zine existing. Of course, I don't insist nor expect people to know paper zine from other side of the planet, but since that is the case, it makes one wonder if account in something like IG is sort of mandatory, so that people have even small opportunity to randomly discover magazine or find articles/reviews at the website?

The problem with social networks is the inevitable "background noise", advertising, sponsored posts, etc.
As a user it is difficult to find something good, unless you are very strict in choosing your "friends"... also the algorithms don't help because they favor what brings money to the platform, not so much your interests.

However, as a fanzine publisher (at least in my experience), if you use thematic groups to promote new releases or have a network of people who share your news with others, you will probably find some new customers/curious people every once ina while. Especially if it's someone who does not follow the scene closely, or maybe is just a newcomer (maybe young) and does not spend time looking for forums or similar things from the "old internet".

There's also another problem: if you have a FB/IG page that remains dormant for too long, with no posts or whatsoever, when you publish something new the algorithm penalizes you, so it becomes a job to keep it active all the time. Is it worth it? That's the question

It's really amazing to hear that you have found success in advertising through groups.  It seems that a lot of Facebook groups for noise, industrial, and related genres just are not that good.  Noise Listening Now is great and seems to be well-moderated, as do a few band-specific ones (Coil and Current 93 come to mind).  Most others, however, just seem to be endless spam from people promoting their typically nothing-projects.

softwhiteabuse

instagram is a terrible place in itself but it's nice for curating a community and feels almost essential for advertising.. but this forum works just as well while being more intimate

BlackCavendish

#11
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on July 26, 2024, 01:00:16 AMIt's really amazing to hear that you have found success in advertising through groups.  It seems that a lot of Facebook groups for noise, industrial, and related genres just are not that good.  Noise Listening Now is great and seems to be well-moderated, as do a few band-specific ones (Coil and Current 93 come to mind).  Most others, however, just seem to be endless spam from people promoting their typically nothing-projects.

Our fanzine is dedicated to industrial/neofolk and related, and it's only in Italian... it's a fairly defined niche and not too big/chaotic.

But for example, a couple of years ago we reprinted an old book from 1946 and advertised it in a couple of Facebook groups dedicated to that type of uchronic/dystopian literature. We found a few interested people who didn't know us.
Besides the book, some of them also bought the back issues of the zine.
They had never heard of it and I'm pretty sure that without social networks this would still be the case.

So, sometimes it works. But I'm not sure it's always worth keeping up with social networks, it's time consuming.
I guess it depends on a case by case basis.

Into_The_Void

Instagram has become the reference Social Network for extreme music as well, which I find quite ridiculous if you ask me, but this is how it goes. For what concern me, I stay on Facebook mainly to see pictures / read some post-stuff of people I know. I used to hang out more often at shows and, especially when I moved to Berlin, Facebook was the key to being up to date with everything I wanted to follow. Nowadays I hang out way less, and at the same time there's way less interesting stuff around (at least for me), so I don't know if I am the one who didn't really keep the pace or if Facebook is slowly dying also as a tool to keep up with shows, etc.

Instagram became a crossway between a virtual, a bit scammy online shop with a lot of advertising (often undesired, maybe just because you named a product 2-3 times and the algorithm floods you with spammy "tailor-made" insertions) and a fucking vitrine of personal life. I use it 30% to stay updated on new releases, 20% to stay in touch with some contacts/friends and 50% to read news, and also this last point is slowly becoming a turbid stuff where is impossible to discern between useful news from the fakes, marginal or useless news, and mass distraction. Plus, you don't have the possibility to write properly and explicate the concepts, which is fundamental to discussing art, music, books, basically anything which requires a dive and some mental exercise, because it is simply not programmed for that, but to get "fast shots" of voyeurism instead. I've never tried Tiktok and other Social Networks because I am not really interested at all, and since when I back regularly on the boards, I am convinced that this is the most useful and suitable way to talk and interact with other people about underground music.
https://sabruxa.bandcamp.com/ (Industrial / ambient)

Balor/SS1535

Quote from: BlackCavendish on July 26, 2024, 01:23:19 PM
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on July 26, 2024, 01:00:16 AMIt's really amazing to hear that you have found success in advertising through groups.  It seems that a lot of Facebook groups for noise, industrial, and related genres just are not that good.  Noise Listening Now is great and seems to be well-moderated, as do a few band-specific ones (Coil and Current 93 come to mind).  Most others, however, just seem to be endless spam from people promoting their typically nothing-projects.

Our fanzine is dedicated to industrial/neofolk and related, and it's only in Italian... it's a fairly defined niche and not too big/chaotic.

But for example, a couple of years ago we reprinted an old book from 1946 and advertised it in a couple of Facebook groups dedicated to that type of uchronic/dystopian literature. We found a few interested people who didn't know us.
Besides the book, some of them also bought the back issues of the zine.
They had never heard of it and I'm pretty sure that without social networks this would still be the case.

So, sometimes it works. But I'm not sure it's always worth keeping up with social networks, it's time consuming.
I guess it depends on a case by case basis.

I guess the narrower your focus, the better your reach will be, in a sort of paradoxical way!  Advertising something physical must also help to draw more attention on pages where so much else are Bandcamp links or whatever.

Theodore

No social media here, and i dont miss anything. How do i know since i am not there ? Well, you tell me, what do i miss ? Private release of 10 copies that artist posted on IG for sale / giveaway ? I would miss that anyway ...

This forum -i also take a look on S&W too, but not that often- , Discogs -the most essential site. If the database is lost we are fucked- , distro shops and their lists, bandcamp notifications are enough to keep me updated.

+ Strangely [?] , notifications about new uploads of new releases of artists i have subscribed on private torrent trackers are also helpful.
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"