Long promotion for noise? / dynamic motion forward

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Theme probably discussed somewhere, at some point, but nevertheless.. I was listening to recent  Primitive Isolation Tactics interview on Disaster Sources (CKUT). The original link for the interview is not working as we speak, so better to check S&W forum topic for updated download links (http://screamandwrithe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=743&sid=29d4f0bed7657ede168f6f576fba53e9 )

Interview is c 40 mins including longer noise tracks thrown between segments. So if you don't know what P.I.T. is, you'll get pretty good overview of sound here too. Tayler Geddes of course should be no new name to anyone at this point!

Lots of pointers there what could be interesting to discuss. I find it curious that radio hosts describes that in general, when labels put out albums of artists, they promote it for like year, making sure it gets noticed and reaches people who could be interested. Harsh noise as opposite, may be that label drops 5 new full length tapes and says here they are, and... all gone and moving to next batch. Asking why is so? You can listen Taylor and him discuss about it. I find this quite interesting question that raises more detailed questions.

Such as, is there much advantage of "promoting noise"? Anyone with concrete experiences that noise that is "well promoted" would have significantly bigger reach or sales? Assuming that just posting once on social media and dropping mass email barely is the promotion that counts as pushing release for a year.

Does it give noise disposable quality, if there is impression it wouldn't really matter do you take THIS tape, or the NEXT tape, or one that came before these? Like with music albums, it tends to matter quite a lot do you take "...And Justice for All"... or album before that or album after that, hah..   But the question may be is disposable quality that bad?

Still, releases that have this longevity, often become cornerstones of genre. Reference points and milestones. Like watching recent news and Genocide Leichenhalle LP repress available for wholesale again. Merzbow Pulse demon CD reissued. These barely need to be "promoted" anymore, since they enjoy the cult status as is. Many other releases have some sort of permanent presence in genre. Most notable may have been RRR/Pure series. Generation after generation of noise fans would probably know certain artist solely through these discs, not by their output in general.

I was just listening WORTH "Hamper" CD, thinking damn this would benefit from... "long promotion" and long availability. It is just gut feeling, and it may be perfectly enough that there is one time pressing, sold instantly and next releases to come soon after.. but nevertheless, feeling is that what if this quality noise album would get attention of "music album". Pushing it for year or more?

One angle being, that noise can be such a dynamic motion, that artists output is not just "album", but the motion where progress and evolution is visible, and for example some guys like Crumer appears to be almost irritated that whatever is being done, people will still start talking about him with.. "Ottoman.....". Suddenly the milestone album may be almost counterproductive for the forward going motion. So releases that disappear, may have perfect functionality for such.

Certainly most things co-exist, but leaning towards dynamic motion forward, or preservation of history, at some point it seemed that parts of noise would heavily lean on latter. But now I think dynamic motion forward has caught up and perhaps even dominates?

Any thoughts? Other peoples work - your own works?  Would you rather be known for body of work than single "landmarks" that stand out? Do you rather observe other people progression or trusted masterpieces from their output?

[theotherjohn]

I think I was trying to get something about this across in this messy forum thread I made a few years ago, though I couldn't really nail the essence of what I was getting at down to a finer point: http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=10998.0

Obviously promotion and marketing is an entire costly enterprise in itself in the traditional music industry. There's studio reports and teasers, print/online media features, photo shoots, album parties, review copies/album leaks, EPKs and music videos, radio/TV spots, posters/billboards, merchandise, a live music tour for the new release (maybe with a concert recorded for further posterity), singles and B-sides, an expanded/Anniversary/Legacy/Super Box Set reissue/remaster/re-remaster in 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years... blah blah blah... and 999 times out of 1000 it doesn't work and ends up buried. You're either "the landmark", or the ground that it covers; the landfill.

Noise, on the other hand, is self-aware enough to know that it is transient in nature. There have been attempts at using the above means to "promote" it, but it betrays what Noise seems to be about, either as a result of its intrinsic nature or some ghetto baggage that it guiltily carries. I suppose noise already knows that it is the landfill, the detritus, the entropy.

[W.K.]

Only 'real' promotion I did for my noise came with an misfortune typing error so even people that would be remotely interested had no way to contact me proper. Ouch. At least I can have a good laugh at it now.

Thing with promotion is, when you are big enough people will have expectations, that isn't necessarily bad, but it might be restrictive. For example M.B., apart from the quality of the work, he will always be referenced on noise albums for his first Broken Flag style of records, an much less so for his later output. Also known as writing yourself in a corner.

I guess most people like progression as well as landmark works, is it even worth discussion? More interesting question is, what separates a landmark work from the normal progression of releases? Is it output in numbers, change of style, ferocity, sheer mass of the work and is it mainly how the artist presents the work itself or do the listeners define it as landmark?

Anyway I'm all for promotion for noise outside noise, whether it be constrained (magazines like the wire) or non-constrained (graffiti, public noise gatherings, selling noise to non-noise people under the banner of pop music, etc.) 

[Bloated Slutbag]

More interesting question is, what separates a landmark work from the normal progression of releases?

Unquestionably, it is the jenesaisquoi. That is a major factor.

[Balor/SS1535]

I don't really have much to add to this conversation besides agreeing with the suggestion that a lack of promotion leaves me, as a listener, feeling like the noise is disposable and unimportant.  When I see a new batch of releases announced, I will look at it, listen to a few samples, maybe even consider picking one up---but, always, I somewhat feel in the back of my mind that it is not very important to own a physical copy of.  I end up equating my listening interest/time to the amount of time that the release is under discussion---an announcement that I see for a few days = a few days of online streaming.  Compared, for instance, with something that has been announced with some build up (like the upcoming Wrath reissue of Lily the Flesh) that you know will be quality in terms of both the sounds and physical product---I look forward to it and am much more likely to buy it.

Building off of this, though, I wonder whether Bandcamp/Youtube teasers and streams have a positive or negative effect when done in conjunction to these short-term promotional strategies?

[Leewar]

Maybe ill explain this badly, but here goes...

Lets take Cold meat Industry as a example. They seemed to have everything just right as a label at one time, (mostly) great artists putting out fairly unique and recognizable great material, presented with (mostly) pretty good artwork, and very, very well promoted, hell even the adverts you would see in magazines or on flyers where unique and eye catching, very different from other labels adverts that you would see in magazines.

The label drew people in, as much as, or even more so then the artists.

Has any other label since, other than maybe Tesco, tried this approach and created this whole 'vibe' or world surrounding itself and its artists?

In my view this is what makes the difference between 'just another noise release' and a release that becomes a notable, important 'cult' item.

[state_of_exception]

I was just listening WORTH "Hamper" CD, thinking damn this would benefit from... "long promotion" and long availability. It is just gut feeling, and it may be perfectly enough that there is one time pressing, sold instantly and next releases to come soon after.. but nevertheless, feeling is that what if this quality noise album would get attention of "music album". Pushing it for year or more?

One angle being, that noise can be such a dynamic motion, that artists output is not just "album", but the motion where progress and evolution is visible, and for example some guys like Crumer appears to be almost irritated that whatever is being done, people will still start talking about him with.. "Ottoman.....". Suddenly the milestone album may be almost counterproductive for the forward going motion. So releases that disappear, may have perfect functionality for such.

Certainly most things co-exist, but leaning towards dynamic motion forward, or preservation of history, at some point it seemed that parts of noise would heavily lean on latter. But now I think dynamic motion forward has caught up and perhaps even dominates?

Mikko:
I apologize if I have misconstrued your words, but I find myself agreeing in terms of the inability to "sit with" and promote a single album or project. There are albums I come across by artists that I think to myself, had this artist never released another tape, I think this COULD still be regarded as their best album despite comparable albums later on. It has left me wondering whether or not the saturation of releases disproportionately impacts the ability for the broader audience to genuinely engage with and appreciate a single piece. The one that is jumping to mind is Crumer's Thin Ice. Since the album came out, I've found myself almost without thinking returning to the album and reflecting on the trilogy of releases. To me, an album like that could serve to be the ONE release for an entire year or multiple years. 

Noise artists, in my experience, are restless creatures. I think in some capacity, the way in which noise is not treated with the same degree of consideration as commercial music informs both marketing and the push to create. All artists, I find, feel a compulsion to continually create. It is rare, outside of maybe certain black metal circles, to continually put out projects and RELEASE with the frequency that some harsh noise artists do. I wonder if in part it is an mechanism through which individuals manage internalized judgement towards their own art; the theory being, if individuals keep producing and making art, then the amount of psychological or emotional investment in a single release is lessened. Moreover, it would serve to ameliorate fears of creative stagnation if one is continually receiving feedback on changes in sound rather than running the risk of alienating part of one's audience.

What further complicates this discussion is the aspect of noise, in my opinion, just not being beholden to a lot of the rules of promotion that contemporary music is. For example--the oft discussed question of whether or not discussing success or popularity in a genre such as HNW is even productive. If you are measuring success in terms of units sold, perhaps you may have a point with long-term promotion, but I think that, with how democratized noise discussion has become between websites, social media, and forum discussion, I find myself relying on conventional promotion less and less. I'd hate to say it, but I am not particularly impressed by the curation of a lot of labels, so I find myself tuning out from the promotion of particular artists. To me, a personal recommendation from a close friend will always carry more weight than a story post from, say, WCN. In the past year, I had been exposed to hundreds of death industrial and P.E. releases that had just been reshared, but it took actually being able to sit in TODG and listen to the (then) latest Life Appreciation Renewal tape to find something that genuinely stood out.

The label drew people in, as much as, or even more so then the artists.
Has any other label since, other than maybe Tesco, tried this approach and created this whole 'vibe' or world surrounding itself and its artists?

I would be interested to hear what you think about non-conventional promotion or what advertisers used to call guerilla marketing in noise. If the primary avenue for promotion is social media (a route totally controlled by the whims of algorithms and social media friendly posting), what might be alternatives to reaching potential audience in a saturated market?

[Leewar]

I would be interested to hear what you think about non-conventional promotion or what advertisers used to call guerilla marketing in noise. If the primary avenue for promotion is social media (a route totally controlled by the whims of algorithms and social media friendly posting), what might be alternatives to reaching potential audience in a saturated market?

I wouldnt know enough about that to even suggest anything.

Though (and i should have included this in my first post) i do think as a whole most noise artists lack quality control themselves, and use the "Throw shit at a wall and hope some sticks" method, and it seems some labels follow the same approach.

[brian o'blivion]

Theme probably discussed somewhere, at some point, but nevertheless.. I was listening to recent  Primitive Isolation Tactics interview on Disaster Sources (CKUT). The original link for the interview is not working as we speak

Fixed link: https://ckut.ca/playlists/shows/12486