Making Tape Loops?

[Balor/SS1535]

I tried searching, but I was not able to find a dedicated topic.

So I have been playing around all day today making simple tape loops.  While the cutting and splicing has all gone well, I notice that my tape player frequently just stops playing, usually almost instantly---in just the same way as if it had come to the end of a tape.  However, it is able to work on other occasions and keep looping.

Does anyone have an idea why that might be the case?  I have been careful to make sure that the splicing tape does not hang over the edge of the tape itself, so I don't think anything is catching.

Thoughts?  Potential solutions?

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Also, since this is a topic, please share your own work/experiences with tape loops and cut-ups!

[Theodore]

Sounds like the auto-stop engages. This happens if there isn't enough pressure on the left hub to spin around -and move the axis as well- . There are solutions with rubber bands and other ways -search the internet- which may work or not. I cant advise you more since i havent made a loop in my life.

[Balor/SS1535]

Sounds like the auto-stop engages. This happens if there isn't enough pressure on the left hub to spin around -and move the axis as well- . There are solutions with rubber bands and other ways -search the internet- which may work or not. I cant advise you more since i havent made a loop in my life.

Doing research, that sounds exactly like the problem that I am currently having.  Some of the solutions that you are mentioning have been surfacing the more I look around.

What is confusing to me, though, is that the two single wheel tape loops that I have made both work well (each has only one spool in the cassette shell), while the "Chandler" style loop with two spools (as seen in the middle here: https://www.guerrilladigital.cc/2021/03/10/i-spent-the-last-two-weeks-researching-and-making-endless-cassette-loop-tapes-and-this-is-what-i-learned/) will not work at all---unless I just hold my finger down on the play button.

[Theodore]

That 'Chandler' style, with a first look, the hubs spin at different directions. I guess any deck with auto-stop should stop with such move detection [?] , an ultimate anomaly . No solution to this, unless you modify the deck to disable auto-stop. Dont use this loop, i would say ...

[Balor/SS1535]

That 'Chandler' style, with a first look, the hubs spin at different directions. I guess any deck with auto-stop should stop with such move detection [?] , an ultimate anomaly . No solution to this, unless you modify the deck to disable auto-stop. Dont use this loop, i would say ...

Looking at my loop more closely, that seems to be the issue.  Lesson learned, I guess!  Thanks!

[moozz]

That 'Chandler' style, with a first look, the hubs spin at different directions. I guess any deck with auto-stop should stop with such move detection [?] , an ultimate anomaly . No solution to this, unless you modify the deck to disable auto-stop. Dont use this loop, i would say ...

Could filing the "teeth" from the left wheel work? So that it would be up to the right wheel to do all the work and the left one would just stay still or spin with the tape. I also never made a tape loop so no idea if this is destined to fail miserably :)

[Balor/SS1535]

That 'Chandler' style, with a first look, the hubs spin at different directions. I guess any deck with auto-stop should stop with such move detection [?] , an ultimate anomaly . No solution to this, unless you modify the deck to disable auto-stop. Dont use this loop, i would say ...

Could filing the "teeth" from the left wheel work? So that it would be up to the right wheel to do all the work and the left one would just stay still or spin with the tape. I also never made a tape loop so no idea if this is destined to fail miserably :)

That's what I was thinking about doing.  The only problem with that would be that I think I could then only play it on one side, even though both sides of the tape have audio on them.  I guess one potential solution in that case might be to do a "mobius twist" in the tape loop, where I make one twist in the tape so that it will flip the tape as it plays---i.e. both sides will play and the length of the loop would double.  However, I'm not sure that would survive the left spindle where the tape rubs on top of itself.

[Balor/SS1535]

Then again, the basic, triangular loops only have one spindle, yet can play on both sides.  So maybe it could work.

[Theodore]

The right hub / axis is moved by motor anyway. It depends on the deck , if it has auto-stop mechanism and how it operates, but for auto-stop to be triggered when it detects no-motion of the left hub / axis when in playing mode, that's fundamental i think. - Your other loop works cause the left hub spins by the tape's pressure and move the axis too. It's the capstan / roller that move the tape forward.

Edit: Now i read more carefully. If you can play a loop with the left hub 'empty' , then yes, if you cut the 'teeth' at the left hub of that 'Chandler' loop, it will probably work. Try it !

[Balor/SS1535]

Edit: Now i read more carefully. If you can play a loop with the left hub 'empty' , then yes, if you cut the 'teeth' at the left hub of that 'Chandler' loop, it will probably work. Try it !

Thank you for this suggestion---I just tried it, so I can report back.  It both worked and didn't at the same time, sort of.  The great success of this was that I was able to play one complete loop on one side of the tape, which it did not do when the left hub it's teeth in it.  It didn't work, however, in that it would only do the one loop before engaging the auto-stop.

I am thinking that the only full solution at this point would be to modify the tape deck itself to disengage the auto-stop entirely.  I have seen a lot of people offer similar recommendations, so buying a new tape player to experiment with will be my next step.

[Theodore]

Thank you for this suggestion---I just tried it, so I can report back.  It both worked and didn't at the same time, sort of.  The great success of this was that I was able to play one complete loop on one side of the tape, which it did not do when the left hub it's teeth in it.  It didn't work, however, in that it would only do the one loop before engaging the auto-stop.

I am thinking that the only full solution at this point would be to modify the tape deck itself to disengage the auto-stop entirely.  I have seen a lot of people offer similar recommendations, so buying a new tape player to experiment with will be my next step.

When you play the other loop you have done with the side that has left hub 'empty' , does your deck has the same behaviour ? One round and stop or keeps playing ? Normaly it should behave the same. If only stops with the 'Chandler' loop, then it's the loop itself that causing the problem [?] . Friction / too much back-tension causing the capstan to slow down and stop [?] . Dont know. Only guess. If you watch the tape movement in the shell or you could find access to watch what happens on the capstan / roller when on playback, maybe you had some clues ... But dont bother. Understanding why wont make that loop play.

And for god's sake, DONT DESTROY your deck. Just buy one other, or walkman, that you know it does the job you want it for. The cheapest / crapiest you can find. Dont tell me you want high fidelity, haha. Then destroy that if you wish. - A cheap -working- crap surely has less safety measures -if any- , it will play anything, till chew and beyond.

[Balor/SS1535]

Thank you for this suggestion---I just tried it, so I can report back.  It both worked and didn't at the same time, sort of.  The great success of this was that I was able to play one complete loop on one side of the tape, which it did not do when the left hub it's teeth in it.  It didn't work, however, in that it would only do the one loop before engaging the auto-stop.

I am thinking that the only full solution at this point would be to modify the tape deck itself to disengage the auto-stop entirely.  I have seen a lot of people offer similar recommendations, so buying a new tape player to experiment with will be my next step.

When you play the other loop you have done with the side that has left hub 'empty' , does your deck has the same behaviour ? One round and stop or keeps playing ? Normaly it should behave the same. If only stops with the 'Chandler' loop, then it's the loop itself that causing the problem [?] . Friction / too much back-tension causing the capstan to slow down and stop [?] . Dont know. Only guess. If you watch the tape movement in the shell or you could find access to watch what happens on the capstan / roller when on playback, maybe you had some clues ... But dont bother. Understanding why wont make that loop play.

And for god's sake, DONT DESTROY your deck. Just buy one other, or walkman, that you know it does the job you want it for. The cheapest / crapiest you can find. Dont tell me you want high fidelity, haha. Then destroy that if you wish. - A cheap -working- crap surely has less safety measures -if any- , it will play anything, till chew and beyond.

That's definitely another possibility.  The problem is that my current tape deck does not have a window into the tape, so I can't actually see to confirm whether that is the case or not.  I don't think the problem occurs with the triangular loops, but I will test more to be sure.  Someone that I asked elsewhere online about this issue suggested as we;; that it could be a friction problem, and that another spindle could be used to stop the tape from touching itself.

And I will not destroy my tape player---I actually just put in a bid on some very nice looking (but cheap) tape player walkmen from a local thrift store.  So I will return in a few days (assuming that I win the auction) with an update on that end!

[Balor/SS1535]

A new update: So I got four "Realistic Minisette-19" tape players from a thrift store and tried out all of my tape loops.  From the sounds of it, all of them, including the previously non-functional Chandler loop, function properly and no longer trigger the auto-off (which is funny, considering that these players boldly state that they have an auto-off feature on the front).  I think filing off the teeth on one of the hubs might have been unnecessary after all.  Maybe the boombox player that I was using previously (which I never thought was that high-end) is just far more sensitive?

Either way, I am back on track now.  The next step will be to disable some of the auto-erase tabs on the players, so that I can record onto my loops without leaving empty air on the tape.