Discogs Style: Harsh Noise Wall

Started by manuel-ronf, December 11, 2010, 08:22:42 AM

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manuel-ronf

Hi,

I am asking your help if you are a Discogs user,

I would like 'Harsh Noise Wall' to be added as a style as I think it is getting mandatory since it is a very distinctive area of noise and that would be very helpful tagging releases which are HNW

Please, can you help me on arguing this?
I think if we are pushing a good bunch of reasons that this should be addded it will have no problems to be, and that's why I am asking your support, I believe that with an energic attempt this will be achieved



this is the way this should be done:
http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/207034

The Discogs style guide:
http://wiki.discogs.com/index.php/Style_Guide




Examples (links to at least 3 releases) (required) - This is too easy, but we could give a big list of fine examples, maybe  with the 'Harsh Noise Wall' term under notes or main title


For external citations I would add these links:

http://www.jliat.com/HNW/index.html

http://orderofthehnw.blogspot.com/2010/12/for-those-of-you-who-do-not-know.html

http://www.foxydigitalis.com/foxyd/features.php?which=364

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/Harsh+Noise+Wall

http://www.discogs.com/Dead-Body-Collection-HNW-VOL-1-Homage-To-Harsh-Noise-Wall-Tapes/release/2464120

http://www.musiquemachine.com/articles/articles_template.php?id=160


Many thanks,
Manuel


FreakAnimalFinland

I don't know how things work exactly with discogs.

Grunt (artist) (Electronic, Rock, Non-Music)...  Rock? Why?
but when you go to some releases, you can get:

Genre: Electronic
Style: Industrial, Power Electronics, Noise


Hands To (artist) (Electronic, Jazz, Reggae, Non-Music, Rock).....  Jazz? Reggae? Rock?? What?!
Similar thing is common with just about any noise artists. You put name into search, and it is listed under "electronic, hip hop, rock".


But if you ask me, I think the HNW thing in context of discogs is like splitting hairs. Next thing is, should band be listed under "power electronics", or does it rather fit to "heavy electronics", or maybe industrial is such incorrect category, that it NEEDS to be "death-industrial" or people won't get what it is. Perhaps ambient is such a life loving term, it needs to be "black ambient" so term really describes what band is about?

Next thing what happens in listing, is that HNW is used as nothing but a sales tag:
In 2010, I got numerous promos and promo e-mails from bands who wanted to submit cdr's or mp3 links and always their description was in lines of "I'm doing this harsh noise/HNW/power electronics project...". When I reply that I don't really look out for wall noise to be released on my label, everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, has replied back, that "oh, this is not just HWN, it's also other things". So? I'm little confused. If HNW is the tag you can apply since you sometimes have some moments of "wall" somewhere, then, doesn't it qualify just about all the noise and a lot of other music too?

Then, if even creators don't know what they should call their stuff, think about all the listings what will happen. All the guys who sell the stuff, who don't even listen to it. Mailorders and shops that list their inventory to discogs, and I would assume, just about everything would be listed:

GRUNT: "Non-Music, Power Electronics, HNW, industrial."
Would it be accurate? Maybe, but what was the benefit of change?  One knowns guaranteed, that "HNW" is applied to pretty much every noise release style, would it belong there or not.

When you start to think how many sub categories is needed for this type of listing, one checks out what genres are already under electronic music. Illbient?!? WTF?! Scorn is listed as example of this style. But when you check out Scorn releases, description is used perhaps once in one release, among long line of other styles a'la "industrial", "abstract", "dub". So what is Illbient and is it necessary, if even band listed to represent style, are predominantly something else?

Asking HNW to be besides "noise", seems like there would be need to be categories of "dynamic noise", "cut-up noise"... etc.  Perhaps in HNW, there are currently more "pure" bands, who would exclusively file under this genre, but in bigger picture, it seems unnecessary to me. I see even with good intentions, it creates more confusion that it solves problems in this context.

I'm much more surprised that there isn't style for "electro-acoustic", but it doesn't hurt much to file under musique concrete or whatever. I'm sure there is someone cursing right now the missing acousmatic music tag. "Fuck electro-acoustic and musique concrete, I want acousmatic music style as category or I don't fit it!!"
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

ImpulsyStetoskopu

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 11, 2010, 10:17:35 AMBut if you ask me, I think the HNW thing in context of discogs is like splitting hairs. Next thing is, should band be listed under "power electronics", or does it rather fit to "heavy electronics", or maybe industrial is such incorrect category, that it NEEDS to be "death-industrial" or people won't get what it is. Perhaps ambient is such a life loving term, it needs to be "black ambient" so term really describes what band is about?

I agree with that completely. I have got this info on my private account and I answered. Frankly speaking I am not enthusiast in creating new terms and artificial genres. Such terms like HARSH NOISE or HARSH NOISE WALL are useless for me. I use only one: NOISE INDUSTRIAL (though I know there are people who are able to question this term too) and it includes all of them + so called "nippon/japan noise", "experimental noise", "dada noise" etc.

RyanWreck

#3
QuoteBut if you ask me, I think the HNW thing in context of discogs is like splitting hairs. Next thing is, should band be listed under "power electronics", or does it rather fit to "heavy electronics", or maybe industrial is such incorrect category, that it NEEDS to be "death-industrial" or people won't get what it is. Perhaps ambient is such a life loving term, it needs to be "black ambient" so term really describes what band is about?

I agree. Discogs is really misleading, if I buy a new album/tape/CD I like to google the bands page or info to find out what they truly sound like. If there was a list for every genre name, sub-genre, sub-sub-genre, etc, of noise, it would look kind of ridiculous. Just for the sake of completion and to ease confusion to new buyers, maybe it would help and I bet it would be one fairly big list too. Maybe not as large as Metal sub-genres though, i.e. War Metal, Viking Metal, Thrash, Green Metal, Thrash Revival, Stenchcore, Orthodox BM, Porno-Grind, etc. The list goes on.



manuel-ronf

sure that you guys are convincing me this is not as good idea as I thought first,

I thought about those distinctive acts such as The Rita, Vomir, Ramirez projects, Dead Body Collection, Alo Girl and others playing exclusively what themselves tag as "Harsh Noise Wall"... but I think the benefit is not worth the mess it could cause when different opinions arised about a certain subject...

Also true than even then someone could have the idea of tag something as static noise, dynamic noise, un-distorted noise

Thanks for your opinions I really appreciate it

Niko

#5
Quote from: Brad on December 11, 2010, 02:19:42 PM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 11, 2010, 10:17:35 AM
I don't know how things work exactly with discogs.

Grunt (artist) (Electronic, Rock, Non-Music)...  Rock? Why?
but when you go to some releases, you can get:

Genre: Electronic
Style: Industrial, Power Electronics, Noise
I don't know how Discogs works, but my guess is that anything tagged Industrial is automatically considered part of Rock, anything Power Electronics is part of Electronic, and anything Noise is part of Non-Music.  
Noise, Industrial and PE are part of Electronic music in Discogs.
Noise records that should be added as Non-Music Genre in discogs have to contain field recordings, other than that Non-music is: audio books, spoken word, field recordings only etc. Atleast that's what one of the moderators there said to me.
www.obscurex.org Noise, Power Electronics, Industrial & Experimental Label.

tisbor

QuoteI think the HNW thing in context of discogs is like splitting hairs.

yes , there's no need to do it . just leave the general noise-industrial-power electronics classifications alone