Pointless jams and synth-wankery

[gasskammer]

I think doing pointless jams sometimes is healthy. It makes one concentrate on your own part, and brings maximum focus. It is good to record it, listen to it, etc. Same with synth wanking, have done it for hours with allies and would do it again. Hours and days stored on tapes and files etc. The question is why do people release this. For me this is rehearshal, recorded to listening for improvement, find good parts and such. And it is great to play with allies, even if it is for noone but ourselfes. There was a time during early 2000s when the "anything goes out" was big i remember, meaning the concept was that all recorded music should be released, spread. Recorder running from the start, plug in, make hasty cover and shit it out. Jams and toying with synths has it time and place, the question is more if it is worthy of releasing it for other than personal satisfaction and selfimage jerking. Some impro records is better than the most calculated ocd played lps and vica verca. But in the end i understand the hate, nothing is worse than failed music.

[Zeno Marx]

It makes one concentrate on your own part, and brings maximum focus.

That's an interesting perspective inasmuch as it being the exact opposite of what I've heard from life-long improvisers.  Not to say you are wrong.  I've read time and time again that the reason they've decided to remain in the improvisational field is because it eliminates the ego and removes the self from the process.  There's a good Paul Dunmall quote about this.  I'll see if I can find it.  It isn't about playing, but about listening.  The better the skill of listening amongst the players, the more probable the jam becomes interesting and of quality to the audience.  It's when not to play more so than when to play.  It is about becoming passive and not active; becoming a conduit.  The learning curve is huge and quick, so with relatively little practice among good listeners (not necessarily good players), a language and conversation materializes.  The more the practice, the more complex the language and the more detailed the conversation becomes.  I find it less egregious when an audience is invited to take part in that development via live performance than I do when an audience is sold a product documenting that development.  A musical group can still include their audience with that live development by encouraging taping and trading of those live events.  But to brand it an official, sold release, it should be the cream of that development.  On the other side of that, though, you run into comfort and predictability with too much familiarity...unless you're dealing with some extraordinary musical minds(thinking of artists like Keiji Haino and Phil Lesh).  And I'm not forgetting, nor shitting on, the occasional accident between unfamiliar players.  There's a lot to be said for that unbridled new situation, but I've found it really rare that it yields anything of truly great quality.  They often become more of a pass/fail exercise with failure being the rule and not the exception.  But as a player, I'm assuming there is a lot more to learn from the failures than from the successes.  Just don't sell me those failures in product.

quality is in the eye of the beholder has limited use here as well.  Like bona fide classics, you find a consensus by listeners.  Like with structured tracks, improvisations also gain consensus from the audience of being quality or not quality.  It isn't nearly as amorphous or arbitrary as one might like to paint the interpretation.

[tinnitustimulus]

Oh and Tim, I'm sure there is people on here that prefer not to hear A Band or Kemialliset Ystavat ;)

Somewhat off-topic, but Kemialliset Ystävät doesn't really fit the jamz category. Althought many of the sounds are directed from improvisation and straight up jamming, his music is pretty carefully composed from there by editing and collaging the sounds. And it's actual songs, and not some random sound collages of jamming.

I don't know if you really meant it like that but, just saying.

It certainly is more of a quilt of a project now with Jan having ultimate control of several collaborators over the internet. When I first heard it in the early 00's while they had songs it was also clear they had some serious jam outs, and youtube is definitely testament to that. Definitely more of a folk band then anything industrial or noise I have to admit.

The ultimate jam band was probably Throbbing Gristle, no "song" was ever played the same, they swapped instruments, and they sold recordings of every performance. Every release was considered a mock industrial commodity, a shit product from shit instruments from people that had the reputation to rub shit on themselves, in comparison to the profit aimed sleek productions at the time. In fact the lack of cohesion was considered part of the transgression, just like noisecore proudly strives to be the lowest common denominator in musical ability. Plenty of "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" moments from Genesis.

I don't know how to compare this to Wolf Eyes, but the ideas are certainly at a parallel, right down to the self parody. 

[kettu]

When the session started, it was 100% mindless jam. Exactly the kind of thing where everybody does their own thing, without any attention what is really happening. Total rubbish, I would say.

these things happen all the time. I think for succesfull JaMZ you need a certain skillset.
fairly often I play music and noise with new people and more often than not it is a letdown. many so called musicians cant listen to what others are playing and reacting to it accordingly. same with noise, jesusfuck there was an awfull set I was involved a few months ago. TIMID NOISE, it was horrendous, I couldnt make it good no matter what I tried. those people went in to my book of nobodys.

Im sure the skillset can be cultivated but there is also natural aspect of working in a pack. humans are  tribal/packanimal, working well in a group is what humans have done even before there were modern humans.
I think this also includes nonverbal communication, instincts and reacting in way that doesnt hinder the goal which may be a succesfull hunt or a rad JAM.

[gasskammer]

Zeno Marx; Yes, i can see how it sounds opposite of what the idea of a jam is. I have been to my share of free impro jazz gigs as a visitor and yes, the skilled guys knows when to hold back. Focus on each owns part and keep it focused will also include knowing when to keep your own shit down though. In a setting that includes other people you will of course focus on how your input will improve the whole piece of sound.
And i think it is rare that impro collaborations that are done "the first night" really works, speaking from personal experience and second hand experience. Some are great of course, but often by chance. Not to say that is not good. But a lot of these releases functions only as documents that it really happened, like a diary or some shit like that, or personal gratification that it is done.

The bottom line was really; A lot of people record everything they do and send it out to make sure other people know they exist, regardless of quality. That is irritating. Jams and synthwankery is what made a lot of timeless classics, but rehearshals, critical sense and a concept is useful for making a record that will last.