Hurting Yourself For Entertainment

Started by Andrew McIntosh, May 27, 2014, 01:42:42 PM

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Bloated Slutbag

Fair enough, as long as we're honest about what we're doing....
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

Bloated Slutbag

#16
Leaving out those instances where bad acting may be preferable (refer to the ever current rip off alerts thread), it's hard for me to draw the lines between what does and does not constitute a legitimate performance, never mind a "successful" one. Taking the ever-ready example of porn, I couldn't tell you what I more readily get off on - the more professional, the more amateurish, or the more purely voyeuristic.

Whether or not the act seems "forced" is seldom a concern for myself as audience member. When the possibility of damage being done is raised – damage to the performer and/or viewer – well, it is raised. It is there. I mean, I'm as cynical as the next person, and seldom expect much beyond the usual "bad acting", but at least the notion has been brought into play, and it's hard to say how exactly it will play out.

EDIT I meant to add: in the case of the self-abuser, the audience reaction may necessarily be moot - or, any rate, mute. It could be someone I consider a good friend, on stage threatening to kill herself, and I'm not sure how/if/should I act. My reaction may well be very much internalized and not something I would often bear on let alone remark on.

And after the fact it's still hard to say how exactly it played out - seems that different people will  often remember the same(?) events rather differently. (I certainly don't consider myself a great recorder of facts, particularly those playing out in live performance venues...)

To put it another way, I'm less concerned with how "forced" things seem than with how "real" the possibility of real damage.  Which person is more capable of hurting themselves (and others)? The practiced performer who has rehearsed hundreds of times in hundreds of venues around the globe, or the one-off amateurish hack... no pun intended... who happens to be having a good (bad) day? The performer sets things in motion, for better or worse, and what happens happens.

Talking the more purely voyeuristic, I love when people weigh in with lines like, "What's it to you? I happen to enjoy self-mutilation." And why not? Why shouldn't a noise/pe show be like watching The Nature Channel?
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

Zeno Marx

#17
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on June 02, 2014, 10:48:11 AMTo put it another way, I'm less concerned with how "forced" things seem than with how "real" the possibility of real damage.
For the sake of discussion, I'll go with your distinctions (qualitative vs quantitative?), and a good 99.99% of the time, I'm the opposite.  Authenticity, genuineness, sincerity, and these type things are key.  In a performance, that's how I distinguish, or measure, quality.  And to bring your other example into the mix, this is why Sasha Grey holds no interest for me.  For my metrics, she can't sell a scene to save her life.  Nothing about her performance feels genuine or authentic to me.  As beautiful as I do find her (even with her soulless eyes), and though a good percentage of the situations are to my liking, she doesn't affect me at all.  She lacks the ability to convince me of any truth in what she's doing.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

Bloated Slutbag

I do share your idealism in this regard, as the phrase "I am as cynical as the next person" suggests.  But what I do not share is your confidence in the ability to assess the success of the (self-consciously) self-abusive component of a performance. And that's because I really can't gauge where the person is coming from / what they are capable of - until the performance has played out, at which point I would suggest that the gauge is no longer applicable.

Was Corbelli's suicide "fake", that is to say in-authentic? In Japan, one common response to Mishima's suicide was that he was "showing off". What a fucking faggot faker. etc. Am I to judge the success of Mishima's "act" according to this audience response? I suppose I could. I don't pretend to understand the culture (then or now) anyway.

Under these (less than ideal) circumstances I can only assess the damage and allow my "value" judgement to flow from there.
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

ONE

Quote from: C601 on May 29, 2014, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on May 29, 2014, 06:07:51 PM
Quote from: C601 on May 28, 2014, 09:04:05 PM
A lot of it just seems forced, pretty meh

Yeah, nothing I hate more than a performance, on a stage, that seems staged.

im not a fan of bad acting

I understand the appeal - as in the comments above (not the attraction). For me it's the lowest form of attention-seeking disorder; the elicited emotions revolve largely around pity.

If anyone has not seen it, I would recommend the Scandinavian Black Metal documentary, Till The Light Takes Us. I forget the performance artist in question, though the sight of this fully-looped blackened-loon pacing around the performance area stabbing soft furnishings w/ a hunting knife between screams of rage and slicing his arms to a bloody mess left a lasting impression on me. I had no idea the Norwegian stand-up comedy scene was so well developed.
resist the things you can find everywhere

re:evolution

Quote from: ONE on April 27, 2015, 01:25:03 PM
Quote from: C601 on May 29, 2014, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on May 29, 2014, 06:07:51 PM
Quote from: C601 on May 28, 2014, 09:04:05 PM
A lot of it just seems forced, pretty meh

Yeah, nothing I hate more than a performance, on a stage, that seems staged.

im not a fan of bad acting

I understand the appeal - as in the comments above (not the attraction). For me it's the lowest form of attention-seeking disorder; the elicited emotions revolve largely around pity.

If anyone has not seen it, I would recommend the Scandinavian Black Metal documentary, Till The Light Takes Us. I forget the performance artist in question, though the sight of this fully-looped blackened-loon pacing around the performance area stabbing soft furnishings w/ a hunting knife between screams of rage and slicing his arms to a bloody mess left a lasting impression on me. I had no idea the Norwegian stand-up comedy scene was so well developed.

Not a performance artist per se, rather it is Frost from Satyricon.  The 'performance' part of it was pretty 'meh', but the cutting of the side of his neck looked pretty deep/ serious with the amount of blood.
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Zeno Marx

Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on May 27, 2014, 02:17:07 PM
Or in for instance ballet where the dancers push their bodies beyond what's reasonable, and what looks beautiful is actually acutely painful and exhausting for the ballerinas.
I was hoping there was a dedicated The Rita thread, but this is probably just as inappropriate.  I'm still very surprised that there are Principal class dancers in their forties.  I was led to believe that dancers are finished at a very young age (I thought less than 25 years old).

This PBS doc on the American Ballet Theatre was good.  http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/episodes/american-ballet-theatre/about-the-film-american-ballet-theatre-at-75/3638/

and I'm sure everyone has seen this image lately.  I see it posted everywhere.  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAtrwLsVEAA900n.jpg
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.