SALES / PRESSING AMOUNTS OF INDUSTRIAL / NOISE

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Nowadays, when just about everybody complains about low sales of records, CD's etc, it makes me wonder how much has it actually affected this side of underground?

Thinking that some other genres, good selling album may have moved 100000 in blink of an eye and now perhaps reaches 10000. Or something what could sell 10000, now sells 500 or less.  Like some generic metal bands for example. Or punk. While not so many years ago, any punk 7" could be pressed 500-1000 and actually sold, but nowadays, who's put out no-name crust 7" and dare to press 1000?

In noise and rough industrial/experimental, it seems as if releases was always pressed the same. Perhaps difference could be that some bands are wanted (and sell), while others are not? Most of the small pressing simply spreads through trading into dusty piles of discount lists of dealers, instead of being truly wanted by almost anyone.

I know there are lots of artists and labels here, who have been around. It would be curious to hear how much there are changes and if it really has affected you in any ways? I mean, labels who now in 2015 produce tape in edition of 50 copies, and gets rid of them, is pretty much in the same situation as it would be in 2010, 2005, 2000 or 1995 - I'd say?   Label who used to produce jewelcase CD, 1000 copies edition and able to move them, probably isn't doing it as easily in 2015?

I often have concluded, that in my own case, label has always produced just about same numbers. Most often 100-500 copies. Back in "good old days", label was less known and less wanted and it took long time to sell items. Or even trade. Now numbers are same, but it is easier to move same amount of copies as some people still actually want them.

I'm not necessarily asking just numbers. If one wants to give then, why not. But impressions in general about this matter in your own personal case. And perhaps also, how much this has role in motivation of doing things. I'm sure most will say demand is not relevant factor for them, but I'm guessing that there won't be that much of labels lining up for next 1000 copies Merzbow CD as there used to be ;) According to discogs, this year none has been done yet?

What things has changed? For good or for bad? Amounts of pressing, selling such pressings etc..?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

What things has changed? For good or for bad? Amounts of pressing, selling such pressings etc..?

It depends on place: RECEIVER? LABEL or ARTIST? Things has changed for receiver and artist for good; for label - for bad... But, on the other hand - better situation is for labels too if we consider prices of technologic processes and more possibilities and freedom in doing releases.

I often have concluded, that in my own case, label has always produced just about same numbers. Most often 100-500 copies. Back in "good old days", label was less known and less wanted and it took long time to sell items. Or even trade. Now numbers are same, but it is easier to move same amount of copies as some people still actually want them.
And perhaps also, how much this has role in motivation of doing things.

Hard to say about motivation. Recently I thought about that, about this motivation...about taking part as a small element in mechanism of bigger system and these weren't optimistic conclusions. Sometimes I guess that's all is pointless, futile and no future. I hope that Internet will change everything very soon.... left all agents (labels), money and other redundant elements, like physical mediums... Only pure, eternal contract between ARTIST - RECEIVER. And then my decisions will clear faster...

[tiny_tove]

Until now, as ERE Rodolfo and I tend to press 300 copies. 100 are usually sold/traded immediately, 100 go in 2/3 months and the rest goes bit by bit.
I'd like to do some solo releases for about 150/200 copies.
main problem for me is space...
back in the late 90's/early 2000's some cd were printed in 1000 copies, costs were covered in a few months and the rest kept selling/being traded for quite a while.

[murderous_vision]

In the current market, I agree that 300 is a good number. In the early 2000's I was pressing 1000 copies of LBRF CDs. The first 300 or so would go rather fast, over a few years only 200 or so would remain. Even with a big name like Megaptera. It was nice to have titles in print for years, but currently I don't think it is necessary to have more than 500 copies of a Murderous Vision product. I released an MV cd last year in a 300 copy edition. About 50 remain...

[collapsedhole]

i'm label on the tiniest scale - only tapes and less than 100 copies each. but i was actually thinking about this the other day, having just recently released a skin graft tape, and contemplating the next release...and the only difference i've noticed in the last 10 years is i used to get half, if not more, of all orders from outside the usa - europe, asia, australia.... now i get very few orders from overseas, most come from individuals or distros operating domestically here in the usa. still sell the same amount, trade the same amount, sit on the same amount for the same amount of time.... geographic location of where the tape ends up is the only difference i've personally experienced. i guess it comes down to when i sell a tape in person its $5. through the us mail is $8 ($2.75 for postage, .60 paypal fee). and sending overseas end up being $8-$10 in shipping alone.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

What's more, many labels / artists don't want to trade day after day.  There was much more solidarity and so called the International Cassette Nettwork was more efficient ten or fifteen years ago.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I think most people will tell that they don't run distro. I think back in the day, it wasn't any problem. One still had few contacts here and there. If something was good, it was worth take 2-5 copies even if not really operating any "distro".
I would assume that nowadays one issue might be that only place to "sell" is discogs. Where item is always available from everybody else too.
I still wonder that is it really, that people wouldn't be at all into idea of building "local network". Have box of stuff at live gigs or recommend to friends etc? Without necessity of doing it "officially".

My assumption is, that a lot of people are simply not interested in releases. I understand this from perspective of artist, who just does stuff and sells it, but doesn't want to hear others. But labels, my assumption is that most labels core idea has been the excitement for other people's sounds and releases. Then suddenly to be just "producer" that sells items for money, hmm.. I don't quite get it in context of noise.

[tiny_tove]

I tried to run a distro as soon I started the new label, but it turned out a disaster. label is doing good, but distro stuff (apart from filth & violence, freak animal, shift, etc) I am having serious diffficult to sell even if excellent material.
not to mention the extreme rise of postage... this is why I am no longer trading overseas unless friends what the stuff so much.
I notice that at least in Italy people tend to buy most stuff from big distros and then specific things directly from labels/projects.
not to mention customs... they are crazy and have no defined rules.
so sometime it is difficult to do stuff as you would like because of these limitations...

[NakedLunchRecords]

Being probably the youngest here...well it's hard and it will become even harder.
Trading from Italy to EU depends on postage. There've been occasions in which it took me 2\3 weeks to collect enough money to send all the parcels to distros\friends (a registered, aroun 5\600g costs us 14,50€ more or less, imagine having to send 3\4 parcels. So it's why sometimes Naked Lunch is slow)
Moving CDs is sometimes frustrating...I press from 250 to 500...expect for 100\120 copies who disappear quickly...the rest I'm sitting on right now. Cost of manufacturing is quite good though.
I guess I've to move to making short-run tape albums next years...it seems larger editions are not so "wanted" anymore...
Distros is complicated here. Some stuff goes in1 week...excellent releases keep collecting dust on my shelves....

[Urban Noise]

Until now, I press from 50 to 100 on Tapes, 250 max on Vinyl and always made 500 copies of CD's.
The future will see a lower number on the CD's and more or less the same on the other formats, but this is the perspective of a small and unknown label. Bigger names should press more copies.
This is a small spectrum and I understand that people don't want to run a distro when the bigger labels will probably sell it better than the smaller, but trading is something vital for me. I don't have any problems in trading one Tape. That's part of the fun and if one is not doing this for the fun/pleasure... well... stop it.

[impulsemanslaughter]

I'd love to buy more noise records but it seems most labels these days do not care about 7"s anymore.. I also collect CDs or 12"s but 80% is 7"s.