synth talk / lazy synth?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

This is talk split from playlist...

I've been on the fence about Sarin Snow and Blackwatch for a while, but I've just given both their most recent full lengths a more attentive listen and really enjoyed both. Blackwatch especially seems to really put effort into making a real album- varied tracks, thought put into the overall flow and dynamics, rather than a collection of similar tracks. The 'romantic' approach of the subject matter for both is very appealing too, almost reminds me of Prurient in places.

Prurient was the first thing I thought when listening Sarin Snow LP. Blackwatch CD is far more rhythmic, would lump it together with Blackhouse, some Slave State, etc. I have not been so keen on "synth" p.e. or tonal keyboard "post industrial". As expressed in many reviews, I tend to lean nowadays so much more of handmade, broken, destructive sounds. Keyboard tone with effect vocals on top is genre that works when done very well, and both these projects are basically good, but I hope they throw in more experimental approach and less of keyboards through distortion pedal or beats.

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

I tend to lean nowadays so much more of handmade, broken, destructive sounds.

You know you can create any sound, including those sounds with synthesizers right? Or are you actually concerned that its only good if using specific equipment?

[FiEND]

I tend to lean nowadays so much more of handmade, broken, destructive sounds.

You know you can create any sound, including those sounds with synthesizers right? Or are you actually concerned that its only good if using specific equipment?

but can synth truly capture the feel of contact mic scrapings or transistor squall or eerie field recording?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I tend to lean nowadays so much more of handmade, broken, destructive sounds.

You know you can create any sound, including those sounds with synthesizers right? Or are you actually concerned that its only good if using specific equipment?

Well, if one is looking for synth sounds fine, but when with "handmade, broken, destructive sounds" I mean things like mentioned in comments related to Odal and Con-Dom releases. Think of wide variety of uses of metal junk, sand on the turntable on blank vinyl, cut & manipulated tape with concrete sound, machines, scraping, ripping sound of amplifier, unpredictable ripping electronic sounds, etc etc etc.   

You can't "create" everything with synth, or if you theoretically could, the guy with microbrute ain't going to synthetize you that, hah...

Often to achieve the physical, rugged, broken and destructive sound from synth requires recording methods and circumstances that contribute to it more than synth itself.

I am 100% confident, that availability of synths and keyboards and all sorts of neat efx gadgets have made power electronics less interesting than when it was done with nearly zero "gear". And furthermore, I am quite surprised how abundance of the tech doesn't result more experimentation. Often one can hear pretty much the factory default tones and generic electronic noises that appear when you first push the button. Especially more complex synths, and those that allow you to filter external sounds, allow so vast possibilities, that I am slightly surprised how little people seem to use them and are happy with just playing "keyboards".

[Leatherface]

I am 100% confident, that availability of synths and keyboards and all sorts of neat efx gadgets have made power electronics less interesting than when it was done with nearly zero "gear".

Amen

[PedestrianOrgans]

I agree with Mikko to a large degree. All-electronics noise doesn't have the same destructive timbre as noise drawn from kinetic sources, in my experience.

[l.b.]

But it might not (necessarily) be PE or noise for that matter.

maybe thats why people on the PE and noise forum are "dismissive" of whatever you're talking about? just a guess

[FreakAnimalFinland]

And furthermore, I am quite surprised how abundance of the tech doesn't result more experimentation.

I find this strange to hear from someone that rather looks for and celebrates the classic PE sound, but also seems to be dismissive of, or less caring about people doing different things that might not fall into the standardized PE boundaries. Maybe that is also the problem, looking for something that can't be there. PE sound being standardized and therefore A) little room for something that is different and B) sounds that are different and leaning too or are categorized as PE but don't have too much in common with the perception of what PE 'should be' and therefore being dismissed as something that is not good or for not being PE.

I am not dismissive of people doing different things. As one can ready probably ten thousand reviews of different things being celebrated.

What I am talking about, is not need of PE sound (or noise, post industrial in general) being standardized but EXACT opposite. I suppose it would be clear? To my ears, a lot of bands attempt to sound like raw and ripping PE, but it won't happen with mere distorted keyboard tone and couple plugins.

Same could be observed in difference of old and new death industrial. Even dark ambient/industrial.

Synths can be used in creative ways even in context of PE. I don't see use of polyphonic ambient tones of keyboard as "creative" in same was as someone going through process of making each sound from scratch. Based on idea, research, experimentation and realization. Even if the sound is stripped down and minimalistic.

Some may say that its all just matter of taste, but I tend to disagree. Over the years, I have seen and talked with so many bands and projects, where it is clear they do not create material that matches even their own taste or music standard they would spend time to listen to. When everybody else is patting their backs, there should be few critics who can ask if this is what they're satisfied with? I have heard things like no money, no place to record, no time, no inspiration.... but you don't need money, place or time - at least not more than for making stuff they managed to do. Inspiration - that you need. You need ideas and will to prioritize. Perhaps also besides the keyboards, it is the recording on computers that standardize things. Like with synth, it doesn't necessarily have to, but in reality it does especially on entry level so to say.

When there was vast variety of microphones, amps, tape recorders, (tape brands even!), mixing descs...   I can easily understand how it resulted diversity as opposed to bands that have pretty much same gear, recording to same digital recorder having almost the same ideas. I suppose when in past diversity came almost as by product of situation. Nowadays, when possibilities are endless, paradoxically it seems other way round.

[vomitgore]

I actually remember a discussion with a friend whose project is one of my personal favourites. He doesn't use a synth (so yeah, it's not a necessity) and said two noteworthy things. First: "yeah synths are neat, but it would just make me lazy". Second: "you can do really cool things with synths, if I had one, I wouldnt just do the standard no-change heavy Industrial throb". Pretty spot-on...

And synths are cool, especially if you want full tone with that certain harmonious (?) core. But the REALLY interesting stuff appears when you a) try around a bit and b) run it through modulations and other FX. Although I do think that using "just" a synth in PE is probably not the best way to go. It just kind of needs at least some hands-on elements.

And anyone who has ever experienced that nice full sound of live metaljunk, loud recordings with cutting feedback or the evolution of a physical loop or field recording will probably agree that a synth does not substitute those sounds. It has its own advantages and limitations.

[Cauldhame]

This thread should probably be split off into its own topic before it completely derails the playlists.

This is an issue that preoccupies me a lot when I'm working. Back when I recorded under the Cauldhame name I basically had a digital recorder, a mic and a Dictaphone, and that was it; the overwhelming majority of the sounds I used were field recordings and if I wanted to have synth-like textures then I either had to search for different routes to those kind of sounds or settle for soft-synths; in practice I would often use combinations of both. One approach I used a lot was to record extractor fans and air-conditioning systems, then tune the recording and blend it with a small amount of soft-synth to gently emphasise the tones. Most of the sounds I used, full stop, were hybrid sounds of one kind or another because I struggled to get usable results with any single sound.

Since I've been able to afford a synth and to start using one regularly, I'm always a bit paranoid that some of that ingenuity and resourcefulness has been lost. I almost always introduce external audio into the synth in order to have the same kind of tension and hybridity in the signal, as just the synth on its own is not particularly exciting. Most of the time just a little bit of synth texture introduced into a larger setup is sufficient. On the flipside of this, prior to having a real synth, for all my methods I was always frustrated by the insufficiency of the sounds I had to create the feel of real analogue electronics, even if the sounds I was pursuing were less novel and unique. There's a bit of tension there between what I personally find satisfying in my own material and what I imagine other people might prefer. I guess the key thing is to keep honing extended techniques and continue trying to work against the essential homogeneity and limitations of the equipment.

When it comes to extended synthesizer technique I don't think there's been anyone better than Iron Fist Of The Sun; endless object lessons in what can be achieved by using synths creatively. Lee is going to be sorely missed.

[Euro Trash Bazooka]

When it comes to extended synthesizer technique I don't think there's been anyone better than Iron Fist Of The Sun; endless object lessons in what can be achieved by using synths creatively. Lee is going to be sorely missed.

Definitely an inspiration as far as I am concerned.

As far as I'm concerned, my main fears with using synths are 1. Sounding like a boring and inferior version of Genocide Organ, 2. Sounding thin or tiny.

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

I lent GO one of my synths for the last UFoI and the setting they left behind is incredible. Cold as fuck yet with enough depth to meditate on and get lost inside it.

Synths, on their own or with trickery applied, are the fucking business. End of!

[collapsedhole]

synths = good
synth preset sounds = bad

on topic: np: v/a - rotten contingent cs, fieldwork

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

I tend to lean nowadays so much more of handmade, broken, destructive sounds.

You know you can create any sound, including those sounds with synthesizers right? Or are you actually concerned that its only good if using specific equipment?

but can synth truly capture the feel of contact mic scrapings or transistor squall or eerie field recording?

You can manipulate those sounds in a much larger and aggressive form via granular synthesis. So yes, it can capture that and even more.

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

Often one can hear pretty much the factory default tones and generic electronic noises that appear when you first push the button.

I remember a long time ago you reviewed a Crown Of Cerberus cassette and I remember you had the feedback of "Enya tracks merely reversed in a computer" according to what you heard by your ears.

The fact is, the original CoC setup was always a cassette player for the blind, delay pedal, meat box. No computers.

So I have a very very difficult time buying into the idea that you can "hear presets and hear the exact sounds of specific synthesizers".