Noise gentrification?

[nezalezhnye]

Power electronics and noise was originally created by people who realized the superiority of their own ideas to those around them. They wanted to created something unique from what had already existed.
It is something that exists entirely outside anything that could be expressed in a form that could be universalized.
Egalitarian thinking, such as 'we need more POCs in noise' or 'we need more w*men in noise just for the sake of it'; and subsequent gentrification, will eventually destroy the genre.

[Commander15]

Power electronics and noise was originally created by people who realized the superiority of their own ideas to those around them. They wanted to created something unique from what had already existed.
It is something that exists entirely outside anything that could be expressed in a form that could be universalized.
Egalitarian thinking, such as 'we need more POCs in noise' or 'we need more w*men in noise just for the sake of it'; and subsequent gentrification, will eventually destroy the genre.

Hear hear

I think that this kind of forced democratization will eventually gentrificate any genre or subculture. It may not destroy genres completely but it will domesticate them by standardization of thought and expression.

[Thermophile]

"Most noise artists are not funny, not revelatory, utterly banal in their little satires and meme culture. "

RIP noise and industrial subculture.

All genres peak and decline, look at the history of music.

[Commander15]

"Most noise artists are not funny, not revelatory, utterly banal in their little satires and meme culture. "

RIP noise and industrial subculture.

All genres peak and decline, look at the history of music.

I feel that the situation is quite opposite really. Noise and industrial culture in general are very much alive and vibrant at the moment. New quality acts emerging all the time, top notch releases and zine / podcast content created etc.

I feel that the fear of gentrification and threat of tourist entryism may in fact be seen as an benefit for the scene, as it strengthens the espirit de corps and sense of unity. Maybe the return, even partial, to the underground and countercultural roots of industrial culture wouldn't be bad thing at all?

[nezalezhnye]

I feel that the situation is quite opposite really. Noise and industrial culture in general are very much alive and vibrant at the moment. New quality acts emerging all the time, top notch releases and zine / podcast content created etc.

I feel that the fear of gentrification and threat of tourist entryism may in fact be seen as an benefit for the scene, as it strengthens the espirit de corps and sense of unity. Maybe the return, even partial, to the underground and countercultural roots of industrial culture wouldn't be bad thing at all?

So long as it remains under the guidance of its original impulse, it will not cease.

[Bloated Slutbag]

Agree with these last two. Once it enters the public sphere, the little satires and meme culture matter not a damn but for those to whom little satires and meme culture matter. At least, that's what I meme myself.

[host body]

Power electronics and noise was originally created by people who realized the superiority of their own ideas to those around them. They wanted to created something unique from what had already existed.
It is something that exists entirely outside anything that could be expressed in a form that could be universalized.
Egalitarian thinking, such as 'we need more POCs in noise' or 'we need more w*men in noise just for the sake of it'; and subsequent gentrification, will eventually destroy the genre.

Surely noise culture isn't that fragile? To suddenly self destroy if people who have a different view from what was common 40 years ago get interested?

[host body]

Personally I think that time has shown noise & industrial culture to be somewhat immune to gentrification and commercialization. Out of all the punk-adjacent subcultures including punk itself that were formed in the late 70s, industrial and later noise culture has been the only to stay consistently DIY and underground, not to mention very anti-commercial. There have been some crossover to more accepted, commercial music scenes but even with Merzbow and some others breaking thru the barrier into larger popular culture awareness, they haven't REALLY pulled the subculture with them. Noise and industrial is still as introverted and obtuse as it ever was. If some people demand more representation for minorities like is common in other cultural movements, no one is in any way obliged to give in. Then again i'm sure there are many active people in the culture who agree with that sentiment, at least to some degree, and will either consciously or subconsciously give minorities (meaning everyone who's not white and male I guess) opportunities to participate. And personally I see that as essential for noise to develop and mutate and stay relevant. Industrial and noise has always been open to all kinds of misfits and weirdos, and I strongly resent any attempt to gatekeep new artists based on their political or cultural opinions or values, even if they clash with the traditions of the culture. Were noise to shrivel into an "edgy boys club" I personally would quickly lose interest.

When there's no real money involved, people can make their own decisions and follow their own values. There's room in noise for everyone and no one is forced to listen or work with people they don't want to.

[Theodore]

Then again i'm sure there are many active people in the culture who agree with that sentiment, at least to some degree, and will either consciously or subconsciously give minorities (meaning everyone who's not white and male I guess) opportunities to participate. And personally I see that as essential for noise to develop and mutate and stay relevant. Industrial and noise has always been open to all kinds of misfits and weirdos, and I strongly resent any attempt to gatekeep new artists based on their political or cultural opinions or values, even if they clash with the traditions of the culture. Were noise to shrivel into an "edgy boys club" I personally would quickly lose interest.

I don't think anyone send his demos or even posting his music online accompanied with a note I m white, black, male, straight, Asian etc. Do you have good material, talent ? No one can stop you. With very few exceptions the vast majority of those who underlining their identity are 'minority members' with mediocre / bad material. Why ? You answered why. For an opportunity that they don't deserve just given cause of their color, gender, religion. Pretty racist, isn't ?

[host body]

Then again i'm sure there are many active people in the culture who agree with that sentiment, at least to some degree, and will either consciously or subconsciously give minorities (meaning everyone who's not white and male I guess) opportunities to participate. And personally I see that as essential for noise to develop and mutate and stay relevant. Industrial and noise has always been open to all kinds of misfits and weirdos, and I strongly resent any attempt to gatekeep new artists based on their political or cultural opinions or values, even if they clash with the traditions of the culture. Were noise to shrivel into an "edgy boys club" I personally would quickly lose interest.

I don't think anyone send his demos or even posting his music online accompanied with a note I m white, black, male, straight, Asian etc. Do you have good material, talent ? No one can stop you. With very few exceptions the vast majority of those who underlining their identity are 'minority members' with mediocre / bad material. Why ? You answered why. For an opportunity that they don't deserve just given cause of their color, gender, religion. Pretty racist, isn't ?

If only it were that simple.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

It could be curious to know what is the notable difference. There has been discussion in other forums I know, including the Finnish language ones that has certain people who would praise specific project for "freshness". But only difference that is there, is gender or race. But when it becomes question what in their work, in the artistic output, is the interesting... Suddenly there appears to be revelation that guys who pretended to be open minded and fresh, are the most horrid examples of tokenism, while many of the bad boys were ALWAYS globally connected and supporting the wide spectrum of noise creators.

[host body]

It could be curious to know what is the notable difference. There has been discussion in other forums I know, including the Finnish language ones that has certain people who would praise specific project for "freshness". But only difference that is there, is gender or race. But when it becomes question what in their work, in the artistic output, is the interesting... Suddenly there appears to be revelation that guys who pretended to be open minded and fresh, are the most horrid examples of tokenism, while many of the bad boys were ALWAYS globally connected and supporting the wide spectrum of noise creators.

That was my point, really. The noise scene has always been really good at assimilating new people even if they don't initially share the aesthetic, political or whatever viewpoint was common at the time. I don't see it changing anytime soon, and my response was mostly aimed at the poster and everyone else thinking there's a wave of gentrification in process that will kill the noise scene.